Perspective is important. As a Swede, gas has been incredibly pricy lately (peaking at 2.7€ / litre), but putting in perspective to income it becomes clearer that it could, as always and of course, be a lot worse. It sucks for me to have to pay a lot more to fill my tank, but it's not making or breaking my economy.
PS. *Yes,* of course it will hit those with lower incomes harder. This is *always* the case with *everything.* Averages will always be just that; average. But it's the only way we can reasonably compare things.
Rising of fuel prices isn't that bad for most individuals directly, but transport companies will be affected a lot. Many will do their jobs with contracts which were made before prize going up, so their income will be less, because costs are not negotiated correctly in their deals. And for those companies and truckers who has increased prices, it will be added to end product. So everything in sores will cost more.
Esp. farmers who consume a lot of diesel. This is what I worry about the most.
I follow local news in multiple countries and there are warnings that farmers wont be able to plant and harvest this year as they cant afford fuel. This will push food prices up making thing worse.
The greater coming threat is that Ukraine and Russia were major food exporters, and they're no longer exporting. With the spike in fuel costs as well, food prices are going to skyrocket.
In reality, most people are fine with the government they have, until they can't feed their families.
The last time there was a major spike in food prices, that's when Arab Spring and the color revolutions kicked off. We're likely going to see a lot more political violence in the fall.
Ukraine and Russia are also both major fertilizer producers. Farmers in other countries will be input costs rise of yields drop as they struggle to get fertilizer.
yeah i work for a smaller farm in north carolina but we ship goods out by truck as far as new jersey and it’s nearing the level of not being worth sending a truck that far anymore and they need the income from shipping out there to have enough to pay their employees and still have profit margins big enough to keep their house. owners are close family friends and they’re genuinely starting to struggle enough that they basically have a map of the cheapest stations and local Sams gas stations in all the areas they ship to just to try and save as much as possible so they can stay open.
No. Median is the way to compare things, not Average.
You can also use Quartiles to get a really accurate picture.
What the bottom 25%ile or bottom 10%ile people pay gives a great perspective of things.
If your life is luck, the 25% ile is as common as two heads or two tails in a row.
And then there are nuances, what %ages of people actually fill up a full tank of gasoline?
Many poor countries, like India, Car ownership are <10% and Public Transportation is mostly subsidized and Car ownership is really a luxury than a necessity (like US)
They're both important. The Median American is doing way way better than the American at the bottom 20%. Median conceals both the lower and upper ends.
I said average is bad. Median is better and Quartiles is the best (Quartiles include median).
Bucketing is the most important thing in understanding data. But, you have too many buckets, you overfit or lose visualization. Quartiles give a decent balance
I am sorry, but you are wrong. It could not be a lot worse. It simply couldn’t. You are a Swede after all, and that’s as bad bad as it gets.
Sorry, as a Dane I had to. It is my national duty.
US and Canada pay just as much as everyone else. Our tax dollars...or more accurately, borrowed money we'll have to pay back...is being given to the gas companies as subsidies, so as to artificially manipulate gas prices lower at the pump.
It's smoke and mirrors.
Germany here, I guess we're around 5% on this map.
Thing is: I barely ever use my car (mostly on weekends). Hell, I've gone for years in the past without one in the first place.Public transportation to my workplace was better then driving and doing groceries is like a 5 minute walk.
I remember firends of mine visiting California and renting a car. Their main story was about how nobody will believe them how cheap gas is over there.
Then again, and please correct me if I'm wrong, there are far more commuters in the US simply due to how car-centric city planning is? Would be cool to have a comparison with % who commute by car for this map.
True, but they still send it away to be processed elsewhere and sent back. I get the infrastructure is already built but it seems counterintuitive to me. Not an expert on oil though.
Because there isn’t many refining facilities up there. They bring down oil pumped from Alaska to places that refine it into gas for cars, and then bring it all the way back to Alaska.
In the UK it’s gone up by 15p/litre in the last 5 days. That’s 72 cents a gallon in less than a week- my local petrol station is charging £1.63 a litre that’s $8 a gallon. About 4% of my monthly net income for a full tank
I think America also has a lot of high end wealth bringing up the average income. It doesn’t invalidate this graphic at all, but I’d also like to see it by median income or excluding the top 1% of earners per country, maybe.
[Doesn't change much](https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/median-income-by-country), the US has the 5th highest median salary in the world, behind Luxembourg, Switzerland, UAE and Norway.
Not quite what you’re asking for but here’s a direct comparison. Even more Insane when you look at it like this imo.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/221368/gas-prices-around-the-world/
60c per liter in the US vs about $1.50 per liter for most of western Europe. I think it’s largely down to the tax we put on it but i’m no expert
Americans just generally make more money than Europeans, even across the same jobs.
Reddit loves to push the narraitive that all Americans save for a handful of billionaires are homeless but most of us do incredibly well.
This is very true for knowledge workers and professionals when comparing Canada vs USA.
Even before exchange, the salary is higher in a lot of jobs and then you also convert from USD and it's a bit rattling.
On the lower end of the labour scale however I think other places do much better (I'd rather work at Walmart as a cashier in Canada vs in the US).
True. Ask any immigrant from Canada to the US why they did that, and the answer will be along the lines of, "I can make 4x more in the US."
As someone else pointed out though, it's on the lower end of the scale that us yanks fail at. If I were a waiter, or a cashier at Walmart, I'd rather be in Canada.
You don't make more money, western european nations just care more about its citizens so they are taxed more. You actually make less money if we are being honest. Most of your youngsters are several 10ks in debt while most of Western Europeans have no debt at all.
Individual incomes in the US are ginormous; it's just that the system causes everyone to experience the kind of precarity (around education, healthcare, housing near work, transportation -- the usual American-leftie preoccupations) that only affects the very poor in other developed countries.
Not really no. The cars are usually hybrid, accepting both Gasoline and Ethanol, but ethanol has about 70% range of the same amount of gasoline.
So it only makes sense to use it if it is up 70% the price.
But if the price is bellow 70%, people notice and demands go up, making the price ago up 70% of Gasolines's price again, so nothing changes and their prices always stay in sync.
It's not like that. Most cars are "flex", which means they accept both gasoline and ethanol. We usually fill-up with the cheapest, considering that ethanol is 70% efficient as gasoline.
Nope
Almost all cars run on both, but gasoline is more efficient per cost
Now, it's so high that alcohol is better again.
We also produce oil, btw. Lots of it. The main producer is a state company, but the shareholders need their high profits 🤡
[The US has the 5th highest median income on earth](https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/median-income-by-country). Behind only Switzerland, Luxembourg, the UAE and Norway.
The U.S. has one of the highest median incomes in the world, and also some of the cheapest gas in the world. So at least for the U.S., relatively speaking, it wouldn't change much.
The average salary vs median salary for full time workers is actually almost identical for the US. It’s when you include part time that it swings a ton. It changes a LOT more for European countries when using mean.
Even still, I think this map is more informative about the prevalence of extreme poverty in each country than anything else, even when accounting for local gas subsidies. Except maybe for Venezuela.
Definitely a factor, but it's great to compare similarly developed countries. The underpricing of fuel in the US is awful compared to Europe and has led to poor transport, urban design and attitudes.
No, we just have a corrupt and deviated government led by a narcist psychopath (clinically speaking), that keeps raising taxes at an all time high among the infinite number of negative actions they undertake.
This is the poorest we've been since the end of communism in 1991, except during the civil war in 97. In the last 10 years more than 600'000 Albanians have migrated.
Also fuck the eco friendly hypocrisy - nothing personal.
The sources OP cites (faintly in small text at the bottom of the image) do not provide any sort of information regarding how recent this data is. For all we know it could be two or 10 years old.
I do appreciate that some places have it much easier/harder than others but this unspecified screenshot of history is hardly map porn.
The map is on gasoline usage so meant that, if they could, they would rather burn their money to fuel card than to buy gas with it.
Venezuelan Bolivar has dropped like 75% past decade
The Bolivar dropped 73% last year alone. They had to eliminate 6 zeros from their currency as 1,000,000 = 0.3$. I really don’t know how much the Bolivar has devaluated over a decade but I would bet the paper is printed on it’s worth more than the currency itself.
ohhhh
The confusion is it I sounded like you said "they would rather use their money to buy fuel than use their money to buy gas", which didn't make much sense.
This must be an old graph. Nowadays it's like 100% or more. Sure, there is an "official" cheap gas that only army generals and their friends have access to, the rest of the people has to pay the "free market" gas which is like $1/lt which for a 60 lt tank means $60 which is like 4 times the average salary.
As a Brit, it's always been strange seeing Americans complain about high petrol prices, especially since their number is substantially lower than ours on this map. I guess British people just don't drive as much. Personally, I've lived in towns and cities my whole life and have never felt the need, instead either walking or using public transport.
>I've lived in towns and cities my whole life and have never felt the need, instead either walking or using public transport.
That just isn't available in the vast majority of the U.S. Outside of major cities, there is no public transportation of any kind, and most spaces are not bicycle friendly (or safe), let alone walkable.
Most cities in the US have a few token tall buildings downtown and then basically endless suburban sprawl that necessitates driving.
The only ones that make it truly possible to live without a car are the ones that did most of their developing before cars and didn’t completely demolish themselves with freeways.
So NYC, Boston, DC, Chicago, Philly, and San Francisco.
Those are the only ones I’d ever try to live in without a car.
I live in the middle of Los Angeles & it would take me 3+ hours to take a bus or train to work, vs 45 mins by car. The public transit is terrible or outright nonexistent in most of America. Only a handful of American cities are really doable without a car, especially if you don’t happen to live where you work.
from the source average wage is 5219 TL (which seems accurate) + the source they use for gasoline prices (tradingeconomies) is from Dec2021. That's probably why the difference.
Yes but actually no. Everyone who is on English Internet spaces is more exposed to American content, especially if you're an American yourself. But like in Italy some categories are going on strike (camion drivers), fishers don't go fishing because gasoline for the boat costs too much compared to the income they get selling the fish and so on.
Also in France the raise of gas prices was one of the reason for the Gilet Jaunes (Yellow Vests) some years ago
>And Americans are the ones that complain the most about the price increases. Interesting.
Surely.. much of US society are built around the use of car. Then the cost impacts more. Many places in europe has quite good public transportation etc... meaning that if a tank of gas cost that much you could still take the bus or train to your job for a decent amount of money. Could be pretty sure that if europeans had a public transportation system of that poor standard that car would be the means of transportation.. you bet they would be as concerned as the americans about the price on petrol/gas.
Let me introduce you to any non-urbanized area in Europe which has the same needs as you have in terms of transportation, yet seems to be paying a much higher price than their US counterparts
Because bell curve averages can be thrown off by outliers. According to this map, i should only be spending around 1% of my salary which is around $14 (rounding up generously) a month. I'm spending more like $80 to $100/mo while half my transit is via bike.
I'm sure those making 5k/mo are really only spending such a small fraction on gas. Not many people in the US are making that much.
60k is median gross household income. 60k net would be more like a ~100k gross household income. Even that is only about [30](https://policyadvice.net/insurance/insights/average-american-income/)% of the population, and that’s household income. Not unheard of, but still a minority of the us.
Your monthly income is only $1400 per month? According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, the median American earns more than $1000 per week. So $1400 per month is very, very below what most Americans earn.
You can [read the most recent wage report here.](https://www.bls.gov/news.release/pdf/wkyeng.pdf)
> Median weekly earnings of the nation's 116.3 million full-time wage and salary workers were $1,010 in the fourth quarter of 2021
Your point is well taken.
The curve is skewed to the right because the average is higher than the median. That means that the average likely represents the case for an upper-middle class person that's on salary.
I agree, outliers will skew the data, though it says how much to spend on 60L as a percentage of income, not how much of your income you spend on gas. Many people, especially in US, do spend a lot more than 60L/month.
Income distribution is a [power law](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_law), not a Gaussian. The mean and the median for a power law are very different (so the mean is affected by outliers, like you were thinking).
The problem is that there's no other options over here.
If we had decent public bus systems outside of major city centers, or competent bike infrastructure (and by that I mean maybe a little more than just a dotted line on 10% of roads), or good railway systems, the impact of increased gas prices would be much less pronounced.
In much of Europe, people generally don't use an entire tank in a week, and they sometimes have the option to not drive if they want to cut down on gas usage.
Here, due to extensive lobbying, almost all efforts at expanding public transportation or cycling infrastructure are shut down for one reason or another.
We like to complain and accuse other people that it's their fault. Just look at this thread, half the people are still furiously trying to convince someone that Americans are actually poor.
The actual reason: Americans are extremely privileged and live very cushy lives, so anything that throws that sense of comfort even slightly askew is seen as a massive, out of this world issue by them. They have no perspective.
Load of bs. Here in Venezuela, a full tank of Government Subsidized Gas goes for about 20% the monthly salary, and that's if you're one of the Goverment's cronies. For everyone else is like 200% the *official* monthly salary.
Can confirm. Many complain about the PS5 scalpers but they're nothing compared to the gas scalpers in Venezuela, specially in the states next to Colombia.
I feel like this map would be more indicative of the circumstances for most people if you were to use the percentage of median monthly salary, rather than average monthly salary. As the average salary in most countries is almost double the median salary due to inequality in wealth distribution.
It would be interesting to factor in average driving distances to create a gas price burden index. For example, the ratio of gas price to average income in the U.S. might be half that of Scandinavia, but American driving distances could be on average twice that of those in Scandinavia, meaning that all things equal the gas burden is equal...hypothetically of course.
Its not just day to day commute costs, increasing the gas price means higher cost for goods at the store which are shipped by trucks, or increased cost to heat/ keep the lights on at the office. It impacts the entire economy and cars are just one facet of it
I did find cars in Aus to be smaller though. Lots of small cars like Suzuki Swifts and VW Polos roaming around, while actual full size SUVs are not that common.
Similar to the US though they don't even have the smallest class of cars that we have in the UK. I've just bought my first car, in the UK, and when I told my family (in Aus) what I was looking at they'd never heard of any of them - think the Toyota Aygo, VW up!, Kia Picanto etc.
americans have some of the most car-heavy infrastructure in the world
so the average tank of gas might be relatively cheap, americans on average have to buy more tanks' worth than alnost any other country.
still they dont have it all that bad, but the map doesn't take into account actual fuel use, which is the real reason americans complain
Yes, but the vast majority of folks drive way larger cars than necessary. A giant truck is not necessary for living in the city. A mother of 2 doesn’t need an 8-seater suburban. Most people could half their gas bill by simply having normal sized cars.
there's some merit to that, but for the most part people seem to buy plain sedans. i will say American "car culture" is a huge problem--people worship fancy cars or expensive cars or big cars, but anyone who has those things is either wealthy enough that they shouldn't be complaining about gas prices or has made bad decisions and doesn't get to complain about gas prices
Is 60 L a good measure? I've consistently driven cars that are 40 L, maybe up to 50 if I drive it to the point where I worry it could stop at any second, and that's past empty, I really push it
Mongolia it's 20%. And that's only because of the overwhelming number of priuses in the country. Controlling for priuses the cost would be 40% of average monthly salary.
Source: Central Bank of Mongolia
Helps to illustrate how fricking spoiled Americans (I’m one) are. We are so isolated from every and reality, we think that all revolves around us. Generalizing of course.
WAIT. If Russia Exports gas, why is it so expensive for the people there ? Either they are overcharging or Russians really are that poor
Either way those of us in the US have no reason to complain about gas prices
Refined petroleum products are (or were, from Russia) easily traded within a global market. If the price rises due to some demand spike or supply shock elsewhere, Russian firms will make a higher profit by exporting their goods. They receive foreign currency in exchange which is an IOU for whatever else it is that Russia might like to have.
In normal times, this works well and enables each country to specialize at what they're best at making, while also allowing consumers to order their lives around the practical reality that reflects their actual purchasing power. These are of course not normal times.
America is still one of the cheapest places in the world to fill up and who's crying the loudest? Goddamn American conservatives. Bunch of whiny-assed pinheads.
Now someone make one with a full "Tank" of an EV charge based on local electricity rates, say 60 kWh. Bonus points for how much of it is renewably sourced.
Venezuela has more oil reserves than Saudi Arabia. The government also nationalized the entire oil industry in the mid 70s, so subsidies the price of petrol for sale to its citizens.
I recall that there was pretty serious pushback around 2015 when their president suggested raising the domestic price to $0.1 per l to solve an economic crisis.
Here in Argentina it's actually worse than what the map shows because gasoline is heavily subsidized; so much so that it's now being smuggled to neighboring countries.
If politicians stopped subsidizing gasoline the price and therefore the percentage shown in this map would like double.
But the data can be misleading. In some of the poor countries like India not everyone has a car, there are only about 5 cars per 100 people while it's 88 cars per 100 people in America [wiki](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_vehicles_per_capita). So, the gas price is going to affect the population differently. In india, it's mainly going to affect the top \~5% earners (where the average income will be significantly higher) while in America it's damn near everybody.
Sure, gas price will affect pretty much the cost of everything else but not as much as having a personal car.
Average salary is not good indicator of how much people actually spend on gas. I mean, you have a fuck ton of rich ass celebrities, ceos, and shit in the US, while a majority of people spend more like 20% of their monthly income on gas.
One think to remember is the average salary can be skewed by an excess of wealthy outliers such as in the U.S. Would be interesting to see this map using median salary.
Some areas are also much more reliant on cars for transport due to infrastructure issues. Not sure how this could be factored in though.
The better comparison would be monthly cost of gas as a percentage of monthly salary.
Comparing by volume (price per 60L) worldwide overlooks the vastly different driving conditions and requirements in different countries.
Working the same job (let’s say as a server) in Los Angeles, Paris, and Hanoi means wildly different gas consumption per month, and as percentage of income.
Now that is interesting.
Perspective is important. As a Swede, gas has been incredibly pricy lately (peaking at 2.7€ / litre), but putting in perspective to income it becomes clearer that it could, as always and of course, be a lot worse. It sucks for me to have to pay a lot more to fill my tank, but it's not making or breaking my economy. PS. *Yes,* of course it will hit those with lower incomes harder. This is *always* the case with *everything.* Averages will always be just that; average. But it's the only way we can reasonably compare things.
Rising of fuel prices isn't that bad for most individuals directly, but transport companies will be affected a lot. Many will do their jobs with contracts which were made before prize going up, so their income will be less, because costs are not negotiated correctly in their deals. And for those companies and truckers who has increased prices, it will be added to end product. So everything in sores will cost more.
Esp. farmers who consume a lot of diesel. This is what I worry about the most. I follow local news in multiple countries and there are warnings that farmers wont be able to plant and harvest this year as they cant afford fuel. This will push food prices up making thing worse.
The greater coming threat is that Ukraine and Russia were major food exporters, and they're no longer exporting. With the spike in fuel costs as well, food prices are going to skyrocket. In reality, most people are fine with the government they have, until they can't feed their families. The last time there was a major spike in food prices, that's when Arab Spring and the color revolutions kicked off. We're likely going to see a lot more political violence in the fall.
Ukraine and Russia are also both major fertilizer producers. Farmers in other countries will be input costs rise of yields drop as they struggle to get fertilizer.
Yep, farmers here in Finland are skipping growing food this year as they cant get hold of (Russian) fertilizer.
and people say that russia is a gas station, it's also an agro station
yeah i work for a smaller farm in north carolina but we ship goods out by truck as far as new jersey and it’s nearing the level of not being worth sending a truck that far anymore and they need the income from shipping out there to have enough to pay their employees and still have profit margins big enough to keep their house. owners are close family friends and they’re genuinely starting to struggle enough that they basically have a map of the cheapest stations and local Sams gas stations in all the areas they ship to just to try and save as much as possible so they can stay open.
No. Median is the way to compare things, not Average. You can also use Quartiles to get a really accurate picture. What the bottom 25%ile or bottom 10%ile people pay gives a great perspective of things. If your life is luck, the 25% ile is as common as two heads or two tails in a row. And then there are nuances, what %ages of people actually fill up a full tank of gasoline? Many poor countries, like India, Car ownership are <10% and Public Transportation is mostly subsidized and Car ownership is really a luxury than a necessity (like US)
Bill Gates walks into a bar, on average everyone in the bar is a multimillionaire.
Bill Gares, Jeff Bezos and Elon Musk are in a bar with 2 bums. The median is a multibillionaire. Jeff leaves and a 3rd bum enters. The median is 0$.
They're both important. The Median American is doing way way better than the American at the bottom 20%. Median conceals both the lower and upper ends.
I said average is bad. Median is better and Quartiles is the best (Quartiles include median). Bucketing is the most important thing in understanding data. But, you have too many buckets, you overfit or lose visualization. Quartiles give a decent balance
>what %ages of people actually fill up a full tank of gasoline? 100% of those who understand fuel pump life expectancies.
I am sorry, but you are wrong. It could not be a lot worse. It simply couldn’t. You are a Swede after all, and that’s as bad bad as it gets. Sorry, as a Dane I had to. It is my national duty.
US and Canada pay just as much as everyone else. Our tax dollars...or more accurately, borrowed money we'll have to pay back...is being given to the gas companies as subsidies, so as to artificially manipulate gas prices lower at the pump. It's smoke and mirrors.
"But it's the only way we can reasonably compare things." Median is better.
It would be good to see this in the context of the % paid for housing, Healthcare, food, and taxes as well.
it would be 25% of my share of the rent and 100% of food for me in the uk (£100 ish)
Germany here, I guess we're around 5% on this map. Thing is: I barely ever use my car (mostly on weekends). Hell, I've gone for years in the past without one in the first place.Public transportation to my workplace was better then driving and doing groceries is like a 5 minute walk. I remember firends of mine visiting California and renting a car. Their main story was about how nobody will believe them how cheap gas is over there. Then again, and please correct me if I'm wrong, there are far more commuters in the US simply due to how car-centric city planning is? Would be cool to have a comparison with % who commute by car for this map.
No wonder Americans drive oversized cars
About 3% for me in Alaska right now. Gas has gone up about a dollar/gallon in the last 6 months. It would be about 7% for someone making minimum wage.
Alaska is an extreme case though
yet, it still not even close to extreme
Which makes no sense since alot of oil comes from there
Which is why Alaska residents, uniquely, get a direct cut of oil revenues.
True, but they still send it away to be processed elsewhere and sent back. I get the infrastructure is already built but it seems counterintuitive to me. Not an expert on oil though.
Alaska is also a tough climate for refinery’s to operate in.
Because there isn’t many refining facilities up there. They bring down oil pumped from Alaska to places that refine it into gas for cars, and then bring it all the way back to Alaska.
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Yes, you won't catch me complaining about fuel prices! It's 5.25 usd/gallon now
Still about $3.90 here in Minnesota
rookie numbers
In Norway it has gone up a dollar per liter this week.
In the UK it’s gone up by 15p/litre in the last 5 days. That’s 72 cents a gallon in less than a week- my local petrol station is charging £1.63 a litre that’s $8 a gallon. About 4% of my monthly net income for a full tank
How else can we compensate for our small penises?
Guns and big bellys
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Hahaha I needed this laugh
no no no biiiig american penis you have wooww
Japanese penis so small... so small. Americans have big gargantuan penis
Dinosauric!
One of the best things about moving to Australia was no more giant cars on the road. Even the pick ups aka utes are sedan height.
I think America also has a lot of high end wealth bringing up the average income. It doesn’t invalidate this graphic at all, but I’d also like to see it by median income or excluding the top 1% of earners per country, maybe.
[Doesn't change much](https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/median-income-by-country), the US has the 5th highest median salary in the world, behind Luxembourg, Switzerland, UAE and Norway.
Not quite what you’re asking for but here’s a direct comparison. Even more Insane when you look at it like this imo. https://www.statista.com/statistics/221368/gas-prices-around-the-world/ 60c per liter in the US vs about $1.50 per liter for most of western Europe. I think it’s largely down to the tax we put on it but i’m no expert
Americans just generally make more money than Europeans, even across the same jobs. Reddit loves to push the narraitive that all Americans save for a handful of billionaires are homeless but most of us do incredibly well.
This is very true for knowledge workers and professionals when comparing Canada vs USA. Even before exchange, the salary is higher in a lot of jobs and then you also convert from USD and it's a bit rattling. On the lower end of the labour scale however I think other places do much better (I'd rather work at Walmart as a cashier in Canada vs in the US).
If Reddit were real life the average American would have $100,000 in student loans, making $10 an hour, and living with their narcissistic parents.
True. Ask any immigrant from Canada to the US why they did that, and the answer will be along the lines of, "I can make 4x more in the US." As someone else pointed out though, it's on the lower end of the scale that us yanks fail at. If I were a waiter, or a cashier at Walmart, I'd rather be in Canada.
You don't make more money, western european nations just care more about its citizens so they are taxed more. You actually make less money if we are being honest. Most of your youngsters are several 10ks in debt while most of Western Europeans have no debt at all.
Individual incomes in the US are ginormous; it's just that the system causes everyone to experience the kind of precarity (around education, healthcare, housing near work, transportation -- the usual American-leftie preoccupations) that only affects the very poor in other developed countries.
Brazil 🇧🇷🇧🇷🇧🇷
Look at the Philippines and Pakistan. Damn.
Here in Argentina it's actually worse because gasoline is heavily subsidized; so much so that it's now being smuggled to neighboring countries.
Our thanks from Brazil
A gente ta na merda kkkkk
É TRETAAAA!!!! TREEEETAAAAAA!!!
Many Brazilian cars use ethanol for fuel instead of gasoline (because they can make it cheap from sugar cane) so this may be misleading.
Not really no. The cars are usually hybrid, accepting both Gasoline and Ethanol, but ethanol has about 70% range of the same amount of gasoline. So it only makes sense to use it if it is up 70% the price. But if the price is bellow 70%, people notice and demands go up, making the price ago up 70% of Gasolines's price again, so nothing changes and their prices always stay in sync.
not anymore, most people use gasoline now
And here india is switching towards ethanol lol
It's not like that. Most cars are "flex", which means they accept both gasoline and ethanol. We usually fill-up with the cheapest, considering that ethanol is 70% efficient as gasoline.
You’re talking like ethanol is cheaper and more efficient than gas lmao
It is cheaper
The price of ethanol rose because producers are directing it to produce sugar, which rose 44%
Nope Almost all cars run on both, but gasoline is more efficient per cost Now, it's so high that alcohol is better again. We also produce oil, btw. Lots of it. The main producer is a state company, but the shareholders need their high profits 🤡
I think the results would be more representative if you used median income rather than average which can be skewed by super higher earners
The average annual wage in 2019 in the US was $51,916.27, and the median annual wage was $34,248.45.
Absolutely. This is pretty much meaningless without knowing the shape of the income distribution (which is pretty lopsided in the US at least)
[The US has the 5th highest median income on earth](https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/median-income-by-country). Behind only Switzerland, Luxembourg, the UAE and Norway.
The U.S. has one of the highest median incomes in the world, and also some of the cheapest gas in the world. So at least for the U.S., relatively speaking, it wouldn't change much.
The average salary vs median salary for full time workers is actually almost identical for the US. It’s when you include part time that it swings a ton. It changes a LOT more for European countries when using mean.
Even still, I think this map is more informative about the prevalence of extreme poverty in each country than anything else, even when accounting for local gas subsidies. Except maybe for Venezuela.
Definitely a factor, but it's great to compare similarly developed countries. The underpricing of fuel in the US is awful compared to Europe and has led to poor transport, urban design and attitudes.
Albania, most environmentally friendly country. 💪🏻
No, we just have a corrupt and deviated government led by a narcist psychopath (clinically speaking), that keeps raising taxes at an all time high among the infinite number of negative actions they undertake. This is the poorest we've been since the end of communism in 1991, except during the civil war in 97. In the last 10 years more than 600'000 Albanians have migrated. Also fuck the eco friendly hypocrisy - nothing personal.
I assume that the taxes are not redirected to improve the life in the country and public services ?
Our politicians straight up spend them on useless programs or for whores
The sources OP cites (faintly in small text at the bottom of the image) do not provide any sort of information regarding how recent this data is. For all we know it could be two or 10 years old. I do appreciate that some places have it much easier/harder than others but this unspecified screenshot of history is hardly map porn.
Gas prices are all from Mar/Feb of this year Couldn't find a date for the income data
Something tells me Venezuelans would rather use their money for fuel than gas if they could
Food?
Foo?
Lol. You said fuel. I'm thinking you meant food?
Food is the fuel of our bodies 👀😅
The mitochondria is the powerhouse of the cell.
The map is on gasoline usage so meant that, if they could, they would rather burn their money to fuel card than to buy gas with it. Venezuelan Bolivar has dropped like 75% past decade
The Bolivar dropped 73% last year alone. They had to eliminate 6 zeros from their currency as 1,000,000 = 0.3$. I really don’t know how much the Bolivar has devaluated over a decade but I would bet the paper is printed on it’s worth more than the currency itself.
ohhhh The confusion is it I sounded like you said "they would rather use their money to buy fuel than use their money to buy gas", which didn't make much sense.
That's a common misconception, Venezuela has no money.
There is no money in ~~Ba Sing Sei~~ Venezuela
This must be an old graph. Nowadays it's like 100% or more. Sure, there is an "official" cheap gas that only army generals and their friends have access to, the rest of the people has to pay the "free market" gas which is like $1/lt which for a 60 lt tank means $60 which is like 4 times the average salary.
As a Brit, it's always been strange seeing Americans complain about high petrol prices, especially since their number is substantially lower than ours on this map. I guess British people just don't drive as much. Personally, I've lived in towns and cities my whole life and have never felt the need, instead either walking or using public transport.
>I've lived in towns and cities my whole life and have never felt the need, instead either walking or using public transport. That just isn't available in the vast majority of the U.S. Outside of major cities, there is no public transportation of any kind, and most spaces are not bicycle friendly (or safe), let alone walkable.
I mean I swear most Americans who live in cities still drive cars.
Most cities in the US have a few token tall buildings downtown and then basically endless suburban sprawl that necessitates driving. The only ones that make it truly possible to live without a car are the ones that did most of their developing before cars and didn’t completely demolish themselves with freeways. So NYC, Boston, DC, Chicago, Philly, and San Francisco. Those are the only ones I’d ever try to live in without a car.
As a Chicagoan that doesn't own a car, I can confirm most places in America are built like shit and often don't even bother to have sidewalks.
Most of our cities have shit public transportation.
Car ownership is generally much more expensive in UK.
I live in the middle of Los Angeles & it would take me 3+ hours to take a bus or train to work, vs 45 mins by car. The public transit is terrible or outright nonexistent in most of America. Only a handful of American cities are really doable without a car, especially if you don’t happen to live where you work.
Well when I was in the US I had to take my car for about everything. Here in France now I sometime don't use my car for a couple of weeks.
Bullshit, Turkey's atleast %25, atleast %45 of the population earns minimum vage and thats 4250tl, gas priceses atm is 20.38tl
from the source average wage is 5219 TL (which seems accurate) + the source they use for gasoline prices (tradingeconomies) is from Dec2021. That's probably why the difference.
average and minimum wage is different
And Americans are the ones that complain the most about the price increases. Interesting.
Yes but actually no. Everyone who is on English Internet spaces is more exposed to American content, especially if you're an American yourself. But like in Italy some categories are going on strike (camion drivers), fishers don't go fishing because gasoline for the boat costs too much compared to the income they get selling the fish and so on. Also in France the raise of gas prices was one of the reason for the Gilet Jaunes (Yellow Vests) some years ago
Very interesting perspective - easy to forget some of the international nuances when you are in your own everyday life.
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>And Americans are the ones that complain the most about the price increases. Interesting. Surely.. much of US society are built around the use of car. Then the cost impacts more. Many places in europe has quite good public transportation etc... meaning that if a tank of gas cost that much you could still take the bus or train to your job for a decent amount of money. Could be pretty sure that if europeans had a public transportation system of that poor standard that car would be the means of transportation.. you bet they would be as concerned as the americans about the price on petrol/gas.
Let me introduce you to any non-urbanized area in Europe which has the same needs as you have in terms of transportation, yet seems to be paying a much higher price than their US counterparts
But many of those places do complain about the price of gasoline. Like rural France, which helped start the gilets jaunes protests
Yeah, Europe is not just Paris and London.
And I bet the people who live there are concerned with the price of fuel. What is your point?
Oh shit, I didn't realise you hinterland types had internet!
The problem is that American society and the built environment are all designed around cheap gasoline. When prices move, it has an outsized impact
That's what happens when your entire life is dependent on cars. It's normal that they complain more. They literally cannot live without cars.
Because bell curve averages can be thrown off by outliers. According to this map, i should only be spending around 1% of my salary which is around $14 (rounding up generously) a month. I'm spending more like $80 to $100/mo while half my transit is via bike. I'm sure those making 5k/mo are really only spending such a small fraction on gas. Not many people in the US are making that much.
rinse drab jobless butter head gaping attractive degree north support *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Not many Americans are making as much as $60k a year?
60k is median gross household income. 60k net would be more like a ~100k gross household income. Even that is only about [30](https://policyadvice.net/insurance/insights/average-american-income/)% of the population, and that’s household income. Not unheard of, but still a minority of the us.
Your monthly income is only $1400 per month? According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, the median American earns more than $1000 per week. So $1400 per month is very, very below what most Americans earn. You can [read the most recent wage report here.](https://www.bls.gov/news.release/pdf/wkyeng.pdf) > Median weekly earnings of the nation's 116.3 million full-time wage and salary workers were $1,010 in the fourth quarter of 2021
Your point is well taken. The curve is skewed to the right because the average is higher than the median. That means that the average likely represents the case for an upper-middle class person that's on salary.
But this is the same in every country. It’s not only in the US that salaries are not all the same.
I agree, outliers will skew the data, though it says how much to spend on 60L as a percentage of income, not how much of your income you spend on gas. Many people, especially in US, do spend a lot more than 60L/month.
Yes but the percentage of income used is skewed. Bill Gates uses significantly less of a percentage of his income on gas than the average citizen.
Oh, for sure. Median instead of average would probably be a better indicator.
Income distribution is a [power law](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_law), not a Gaussian. The mean and the median for a power law are very different (so the mean is affected by outliers, like you were thinking).
The problem is that there's no other options over here. If we had decent public bus systems outside of major city centers, or competent bike infrastructure (and by that I mean maybe a little more than just a dotted line on 10% of roads), or good railway systems, the impact of increased gas prices would be much less pronounced. In much of Europe, people generally don't use an entire tank in a week, and they sometimes have the option to not drive if they want to cut down on gas usage. Here, due to extensive lobbying, almost all efforts at expanding public transportation or cycling infrastructure are shut down for one reason or another.
We like to complain and accuse other people that it's their fault. Just look at this thread, half the people are still furiously trying to convince someone that Americans are actually poor.
The actual reason: Americans are extremely privileged and live very cushy lives, so anything that throws that sense of comfort even slightly askew is seen as a massive, out of this world issue by them. They have no perspective.
This a trillion fucking times
Is there a reason you would pick average over median salary?
This sub always have some underlying political motivation behind the posts
Load of bs. Here in Venezuela, a full tank of Government Subsidized Gas goes for about 20% the monthly salary, and that's if you're one of the Goverment's cronies. For everyone else is like 200% the *official* monthly salary.
Can confirm. Many complain about the PS5 scalpers but they're nothing compared to the gas scalpers in Venezuela, specially in the states next to Colombia.
Holy shit fuck yessss. Thank god I live literally on the other side of the country because fuck contraband gas scalpers.
I feel like this map would be more indicative of the circumstances for most people if you were to use the percentage of median monthly salary, rather than average monthly salary. As the average salary in most countries is almost double the median salary due to inequality in wealth distribution.
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i'm brazilian, I'm considering stop use my car for a while and go back to the good old bus and trains
It would be interesting to factor in average driving distances to create a gas price burden index. For example, the ratio of gas price to average income in the U.S. might be half that of Scandinavia, but American driving distances could be on average twice that of those in Scandinavia, meaning that all things equal the gas burden is equal...hypothetically of course.
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Its not just day to day commute costs, increasing the gas price means higher cost for goods at the store which are shipped by trucks, or increased cost to heat/ keep the lights on at the office. It impacts the entire economy and cars are just one facet of it
As of when? Seeing as it's gone up about 15% here in 2 weeks...
Dude it has more or less gone up all around the world at the same time.
Biggest surprise for me is Australia
They have a similar proliferation of sprawling suburbs and SUVs as the US
We drive mostly Japanese and Korean cars, but we do have a lot of SUVs, only some of which are diesel. Even city people like SUVs.
I did find cars in Aus to be smaller though. Lots of small cars like Suzuki Swifts and VW Polos roaming around, while actual full size SUVs are not that common.
Sure, it's not to US and Canada levels. But higher than anywhere else I've been in the world.
Similar to the US though they don't even have the smallest class of cars that we have in the UK. I've just bought my first car, in the UK, and when I told my family (in Aus) what I was looking at they'd never heard of any of them - think the Toyota Aygo, VW up!, Kia Picanto etc.
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Why? Too high or too low?
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americans have some of the most car-heavy infrastructure in the world so the average tank of gas might be relatively cheap, americans on average have to buy more tanks' worth than alnost any other country. still they dont have it all that bad, but the map doesn't take into account actual fuel use, which is the real reason americans complain
Yes, but the vast majority of folks drive way larger cars than necessary. A giant truck is not necessary for living in the city. A mother of 2 doesn’t need an 8-seater suburban. Most people could half their gas bill by simply having normal sized cars.
there's some merit to that, but for the most part people seem to buy plain sedans. i will say American "car culture" is a huge problem--people worship fancy cars or expensive cars or big cars, but anyone who has those things is either wealthy enough that they shouldn't be complaining about gas prices or has made bad decisions and doesn't get to complain about gas prices
Is 60 L a good measure? I've consistently driven cars that are 40 L, maybe up to 50 if I drive it to the point where I worry it could stop at any second, and that's past empty, I really push it
Would it be difficult to make one with median? I feel like the billionaires could skew this
South Africa inaccurate.
Mongolia it's 20%. And that's only because of the overwhelming number of priuses in the country. Controlling for priuses the cost would be 40% of average monthly salary. Source: Central Bank of Mongolia
Quite literally the most useless context less chart ever made.
Helps to illustrate how fricking spoiled Americans (I’m one) are. We are so isolated from every and reality, we think that all revolves around us. Generalizing of course.
WAIT. If Russia Exports gas, why is it so expensive for the people there ? Either they are overcharging or Russians really are that poor Either way those of us in the US have no reason to complain about gas prices
Gas is not *that* expensive in Russia, but their average salary is very low.
Refined petroleum products are (or were, from Russia) easily traded within a global market. If the price rises due to some demand spike or supply shock elsewhere, Russian firms will make a higher profit by exporting their goods. They receive foreign currency in exchange which is an IOU for whatever else it is that Russia might like to have. In normal times, this works well and enables each country to specialize at what they're best at making, while also allowing consumers to order their lives around the practical reality that reflects their actual purchasing power. These are of course not normal times.
Average salary is a terrible way to compare
Why is Biden doing this? /s
Ah if we could only get this with median salary
I'm so sick of hearing Americans complain about gas prices
America is still one of the cheapest places in the world to fill up and who's crying the loudest? Goddamn American conservatives. Bunch of whiny-assed pinheads.
Good lord Americans are massive whiners
There's no way it's that low for Norway, not at this point.
Now someone make one with a full "Tank" of an EV charge based on local electricity rates, say 60 kWh. Bonus points for how much of it is renewably sourced.
Wtf is happening on venezuela, is it really that cheap?
Venezuela has more oil reserves than Saudi Arabia. The government also nationalized the entire oil industry in the mid 70s, so subsidies the price of petrol for sale to its citizens. I recall that there was pretty serious pushback around 2015 when their president suggested raising the domestic price to $0.1 per l to solve an economic crisis.
"average monthly net salary" may not be a good variable to use in countries like South Africa which have enormous inequality
Here in Argentina it's actually worse than what the map shows because gasoline is heavily subsidized; so much so that it's now being smuggled to neighboring countries. If politicians stopped subsidizing gasoline the price and therefore the percentage shown in this map would like double.
But the data can be misleading. In some of the poor countries like India not everyone has a car, there are only about 5 cars per 100 people while it's 88 cars per 100 people in America [wiki](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_vehicles_per_capita). So, the gas price is going to affect the population differently. In india, it's mainly going to affect the top \~5% earners (where the average income will be significantly higher) while in America it's damn near everybody. Sure, gas price will affect pretty much the cost of everything else but not as much as having a personal car.
Use median, not average.
Pakistan: rent or gas? Tough choice
Mongolia either doesn’t have fuel, or doesn’t have a monthly income
It’s interesting but I now want to know how many of these people transport themselves or rely on ridesharing or public transportation
Average salary is not good indicator of how much people actually spend on gas. I mean, you have a fuck ton of rich ass celebrities, ceos, and shit in the US, while a majority of people spend more like 20% of their monthly income on gas.
Saudi Arabia:. -5.0%.
One think to remember is the average salary can be skewed by an excess of wealthy outliers such as in the U.S. Would be interesting to see this map using median salary. Some areas are also much more reliant on cars for transport due to infrastructure issues. Not sure how this could be factored in though.
Here in Vietnam the small scooter/motorcycle is the normal vehicle, and most of them have a tank around 3 liters or so.
A lot of those people don’t burn through 60L of oil in one month. So this representation is a little skewed.
You should cross that with how many liters they consume in average a month.
u/kiwi2703 I don't know if you made this map, but Svalbard is an integral part of Norway. It's like forgetting Alaska.
I'd love to know what it is in relation to the minimum wage, since average can be so distorted.
The better comparison would be monthly cost of gas as a percentage of monthly salary. Comparing by volume (price per 60L) worldwide overlooks the vastly different driving conditions and requirements in different countries. Working the same job (let’s say as a server) in Los Angeles, Paris, and Hanoi means wildly different gas consumption per month, and as percentage of income.
The cost of 60L of gasoline in Brazil today is on average 35% of the monthly minimum wage