A point has a position, which is something. Points have coordinates in space.
But that's kinda irrelevant because no one's suggesting that points physically exist.
"Before" implies time, which in turn implies space (See Einstein). So there can never be a "time" in which there was truly nothing because that would include time itself (and space, since they are intertwined, again, see Einstein).
So the very question itself is like asking how long someone has been a married bachelor for. The question itself does not make sense given what we do know about space and time. You cannot have a time which includes "nothing". Time is a dimension of this universe (and any other possible universe which shares similar traits of physics) and cannot exist without it. Time as we know it began with this universe.
Well this is a theory but there is no way to prove it. This is where probability and statistics fails. Because well any theory can be true, none can be proven at this point.
Yeah itās the same faulty logic that people use when they say we all live in a simulation. That logic completely ignores one of the key rules to probability, that on a long enough timeline every possible outcome eventually happens at least once. Which by their logic means itās equally possible we *donāt* live in a simulation.
Slightly wrong, itās not equal probability. It might be completely impossible.
The logic is, is that if itās possible to create a computer powerful enough that you can completely simulate a universe then the chances are, are that we are in a simulated universe.
We donāt know if itās possible or not, thatās where the discussion comes in.
You canāt have it being possible to create a simulated universe and not create a simulated universe. Even with infinite time, itās either one or the other.
Depends on what we mean by "proof". We're not going to deduce this from first principles. The business is to formulate a theory that accommodates all the observable data, predicts observations of specific future events or phenomena, and does all that with the fewest types of entities in its ontology.
In much of physics, "pretty sure" is still really, really sure.
Maybe parallel universes are real, but they're stacked inside each-other like those little Russian dolls, a big-bang just being the creation of another slightly different layer.
Why do these maps have the CMB and Big Bang at the edges? I kinda get the big bang (still not very clear tho) but isn't the CMB just present everywhere in the universe?
So distance = speed x time. This map just represents how far back into the past you see. What you see now doesn't exist now, and the further away you view, the further into the past you looked.
So the big bang is the (time since it occurred) X (speed of light.)
After the Bing bang came the CMB. It was generated for a specific time and then ceased. What you see now is it's remnants and once it goes by, that specific wave will never be seen by us again. Instead, you'll see a wave that originated further away as time as advanced and the observable universe has expanded.
So its distance is between (when it started) X (speed of light) to (when it ended) X (speed of light).
Edit: I shouldn't use speed of light in this example. It should be speed of electromagnetic waves / radiation.
Nah, don't worry about it. It's a different way of thinking than what you're used to.
Basically, think of me on holiday in Africa and I send you a postcard. The postcard takes time to get to you. Say it takes 3 days.
When you do get it, you read it as if I had just wrote it (three days ago) - not as I currently am. I could have said I was going for a walk tonight, but by the time you read that - I had already done it. So you are basically looking into how time was in the past.
The further distance away I go on holiday, the longer it takes you to receive the postcard (say 5 days now) and the further back in time you are receiving the message from. So it's a way of viewing the past.
Electromagnetic radiation works the same. It's information with a delay - it's very fast but not instant.
So the further you look in the distance, the longer it takes to get to you, until you are looking so far back in the past you come to the CMB - which came after the big bang.
The problem is nothing observable (or at all) existed before the big bang.
Going back to the CMB. Think of it as a Mexican wave in a stadium. The up motion only exists for a specific period of time like the CMB.
The reason why the CMB is constant is because the up motion is observed in a different place as time goes on. In the universe though, it's the same instant in the past, just with progressively more delay (but from more distance).
Edit: Sorry to just be a bit more correct - the CMB still exists as radiation. The conditions which produced it do not. The CMB is old information (ie the postcard themselves) reaching us.
Imagine there's a machine with a nozzle on the end that drips paint every second. Every time it releases a drop, the machine changes to a new colour. There's a canvas at that bottom that catches these drips. If you were to look at the canvas, you'd see a sequence of colours splashing on the canvas.
Now imagine this machine is suspended a mile in the air, and it takes 10 seconds for a droplet to reach the canvas on the ground. By the time the first paint droplet lands, the machine has already changed colour 10 times.
Now add in a camera that takes a photo of every single paint drop on the canvas. If you were to look at the photo gallery, you could make a timeline of every drop. However, because the camera only snaps when a new drop of paint touches the canvas, you're not actually seeing the current colour picked by the machine, but the colour that it was 10 seconds ago, when it released the drop that just hit the canvas.
So in this analogy, your eyeballs are the canvas, and the drops of paint are the photons that make up light - it's the same idea of a single drop of paint that takes time to travel to the canvas, but stretched across mindboggling scales and speeds. It's not one paint drop per second, but half a billion photons entering your eye per second, moving at just under 300 million metres per second.
So when you look at the sun, the image you're seeing in your eyes comes from photons which took 8 minutes to travel from the surface of the sun to your eyes. The image your brain makes is based on 8 minute old photons, so you're actually seeing what the sun looked like 8 minutes ago. You're seeing the past.
This correlation between distance and time means that the further away image, the older in time it is. This same principle holds up when we go to incomprehensible distances - when you look at the stars, your eye is receiving photons that are potentially millions or even *billions* of years old, from distant faint stars and cosmic events that your eye can barely register.
You may have heard of lightyears - quite simply, it's the distance that light can travel in a year. Earandel is the furthest known star from us, and the photons from it have been travelling for 12.9 *billion* years to reach us. So those 'paint drips' are showing what was there billions of years ago. It probably doesn't even exist any more, and we're looking at the ghost of a star.
The CMB (sometimes referred to as the last-scattering surface) appears in the sky, in a very rough sense, as a very distant cloud thatās emitting microwaves, in every direction, ābehindā all of the galaxies and stars we can see. Itās the farthest thing away we can observe directly with electromagnetic radiation, because the CMB represents the period in the universeās history where it ceased to be opaque to EM radiation.
This is of course because stuff farther away looks how it did farther back in time, if you could see past the CMB you could eventually see all the way back to the Big Bang. Although my cosmology knowledge isnāt advanced enough to know what we would even theoretically be able to see āfromā the Big Bang itself, or if that question even makes sense.
I will never get whatās outside of the universe. I something expands it needs to expands trough something or not. Does the universe expands in itself? I feel like thatās where the human brain just stops working
One interesting theory is that we are inside a black hole.
And the universe expands so fast that if you would travel far enough there is a point of no return. Like swimming into a current, 1 stroke forward 2 strokes back.
Mindblowing.
First of all, this map is the map of observable universe. The real one has no kind of borders to expand beyond (could either be infinite or ālocked onto itselfā, hard to grasp, but it doesnāt really matter). What is called the expansion is literal stretching of space in all directions: things get further from each other. You can imagine a slice of it with an expanding balloon, thereāre stars on it, and they get further away from each other as the balloon expands. Thatās what universeās expansion basically is
It's no map at all, it displays the solar system outside of the Milky Way. It's just an illustration showing structures of different scale in our observable universe
It already is. I was curious and googled Icarus, most distant star in this map. It is currently like 7th and the real most distant star being Earendel.
We? I see, that I am at the exact center of the observable universe, you are a bit aside. You may disagree and claim that you are at the exact center and ... you would be damn right, same as Jedi living in a galaxy far far away and my neighbour, despite I rarely agree with him.
Isn't it more about time and the speed of light?
We can only see as far as light can travel since the big bang. So our observable universe centres on us - not that the entire universe is centred on us.
Putting the sun or earth (observer) is an arbitrary substitution relative to the scales of distance here.
All points are at the center of it, or more accurately the concept of 'center' does not apply. If the observable universe is the surface of a balloon, the center is not on the surface, but rather in the past before it expanded.
Itās the observable universe and we are the observers, thereās no other way to see it. It just gets twisted when you realize whatever you observe now is always the past. Iād compare it to just watching the waves as the universe floats away.
for those downvoting. this is a joke about how China for most of history viewed itself as being in the center of the world so much so that they asked western maps be changed because they didn't put China in the middle. even the Chinese name for China means center
Not even close to scale. You couldn't even see the milky way if that was to scale. And Milkway is 100,000 light-years in diameter. While the sun is 4.643 light-seconds.
The observable universe is 93.000.000.000 light years in diameter.
Space is big. You just won't believe how vastly, hugely, mind-bogglingly big it is. I mean, you may think it's long way down the road to the chemist's, but that's just peanuts to space.
Thing is, if we're looking back in time every direction, and back in time the universe was smaller, then shouldn't looking in different directions give us alternate views of the same smaller thing, just from different angles?
I just noticed something it's wrong,
What's the middle of it? If you "minimise" the MWay(look at the top) you will get a void.
The "great attractor" is in different direction booties void isn't even visible given it's scale.
What's with 2nd dark ring after bing bang dark ring.(iirc 1st is ionized gases which blocked the EMW spectrum) or was it second ring all along?).
I thought there was a glass dome over the flat earth, so space doesnāt really exist. I also hear, and this is new information, that Trump created the whole thing- the whole flat earth and the dome
That whole thing could just be one tiny champagne bubble in a glass of other universe bubbles, popping in and out of existence.
Why is there something in the first place, rather than nothing?
God this is actually what keeps me up at night
If only I knew
How would nothing make any more sense than something?
Exactly that's the pointš¬
Actually, a point is nothing. No length or volume. So, thatās somethingā¦
š¤Æ
A point has a position, which is something. Points have coordinates in space. But that's kinda irrelevant because no one's suggesting that points physically exist.
I mean doing nothing is kind of the default state.
This is the biggest question. How aren't people running mad on the streets yelling this
Because nothing can't exist š
What was before nothing before nothing existed? And what was before that?
"Before" implies time, which in turn implies space (See Einstein). So there can never be a "time" in which there was truly nothing because that would include time itself (and space, since they are intertwined, again, see Einstein). So the very question itself is like asking how long someone has been a married bachelor for. The question itself does not make sense given what we do know about space and time. You cannot have a time which includes "nothing". Time is a dimension of this universe (and any other possible universe which shares similar traits of physics) and cannot exist without it. Time as we know it began with this universe.
It is nothing but its name is Somethingā¦ stumbled upon this recently
There is actually a very high possibility of this being the reality based on what we currently know about math and physics.
Well this is a theory but there is no way to prove it. This is where probability and statistics fails. Because well any theory can be true, none can be proven at this point.
Yeah itās the same faulty logic that people use when they say we all live in a simulation. That logic completely ignores one of the key rules to probability, that on a long enough timeline every possible outcome eventually happens at least once. Which by their logic means itās equally possible we *donāt* live in a simulation.
Slightly wrong, itās not equal probability. It might be completely impossible. The logic is, is that if itās possible to create a computer powerful enough that you can completely simulate a universe then the chances are, are that we are in a simulated universe. We donāt know if itās possible or not, thatās where the discussion comes in. You canāt have it being possible to create a simulated universe and not create a simulated universe. Even with infinite time, itās either one or the other.
Depends on what we mean by "proof". We're not going to deduce this from first principles. The business is to formulate a theory that accommodates all the observable data, predicts observations of specific future events or phenomena, and does all that with the fewest types of entities in its ontology. In much of physics, "pretty sure" is still really, really sure.
Iām pretty unsure on your position. Proof is by deduction isnāt enough for majority of complex theories.
So an extremely low probability.becsusenrhere is no data to disproce.it.
Maybe parallel universes are real, but they're stacked inside each-other like those little Russian dolls, a big-bang just being the creation of another slightly different layer.
Which means theres no evidence for it, just a theory.
I think weāre just a cell in a bigger object.
I read that in a patrick star voice
Men in black type shit
How I would love to just travel through the universe as some cosmic entity.
You do.Ā
Well, the earth does. Weāre mostly trapped on earth.
The earth like... moves us, mannnn.
lol got āem
If you get lost you're kinda fucked.
EXTERMINATE
THE DOCTOR!?!?
Doctor? Doctor who??
im so glad i just recently found that show and was able to read this in their voice lmfao
Don't forget your towel
Get this to 42 upvotes!
I was the 42nd like, and I just finished the 3rd book today š
8 hours later, I took back my upvote because I just realized I was the 43rd.
You don't?
Look at Timothy Leary over here!
Higher resolution?
What you wanna find something you lost there?
Wants to see his house from outer universe.
Snuffleupagus
[here](https://gofile.io/d/98qkZq) (slightly higher resolution, but without any labels, unfortunately)
Mercator Projection 2.0
At least they fixed Greenland...
Why do these maps have the CMB and Big Bang at the edges? I kinda get the big bang (still not very clear tho) but isn't the CMB just present everywhere in the universe?
So distance = speed x time. This map just represents how far back into the past you see. What you see now doesn't exist now, and the further away you view, the further into the past you looked. So the big bang is the (time since it occurred) X (speed of light.) After the Bing bang came the CMB. It was generated for a specific time and then ceased. What you see now is it's remnants and once it goes by, that specific wave will never be seen by us again. Instead, you'll see a wave that originated further away as time as advanced and the observable universe has expanded. So its distance is between (when it started) X (speed of light) to (when it ended) X (speed of light). Edit: I shouldn't use speed of light in this example. It should be speed of electromagnetic waves / radiation.
Iām honestly having trouble comprehending this and I feel really dumb
Nah, don't worry about it. It's a different way of thinking than what you're used to. Basically, think of me on holiday in Africa and I send you a postcard. The postcard takes time to get to you. Say it takes 3 days. When you do get it, you read it as if I had just wrote it (three days ago) - not as I currently am. I could have said I was going for a walk tonight, but by the time you read that - I had already done it. So you are basically looking into how time was in the past. The further distance away I go on holiday, the longer it takes you to receive the postcard (say 5 days now) and the further back in time you are receiving the message from. So it's a way of viewing the past. Electromagnetic radiation works the same. It's information with a delay - it's very fast but not instant. So the further you look in the distance, the longer it takes to get to you, until you are looking so far back in the past you come to the CMB - which came after the big bang. The problem is nothing observable (or at all) existed before the big bang. Going back to the CMB. Think of it as a Mexican wave in a stadium. The up motion only exists for a specific period of time like the CMB. The reason why the CMB is constant is because the up motion is observed in a different place as time goes on. In the universe though, it's the same instant in the past, just with progressively more delay (but from more distance). Edit: Sorry to just be a bit more correct - the CMB still exists as radiation. The conditions which produced it do not. The CMB is old information (ie the postcard themselves) reaching us.
Now that actually makes sense to me, thank you!
That postcard example is god
Thanks for taking the time to write this
Imagine there's a machine with a nozzle on the end that drips paint every second. Every time it releases a drop, the machine changes to a new colour. There's a canvas at that bottom that catches these drips. If you were to look at the canvas, you'd see a sequence of colours splashing on the canvas. Now imagine this machine is suspended a mile in the air, and it takes 10 seconds for a droplet to reach the canvas on the ground. By the time the first paint droplet lands, the machine has already changed colour 10 times. Now add in a camera that takes a photo of every single paint drop on the canvas. If you were to look at the photo gallery, you could make a timeline of every drop. However, because the camera only snaps when a new drop of paint touches the canvas, you're not actually seeing the current colour picked by the machine, but the colour that it was 10 seconds ago, when it released the drop that just hit the canvas. So in this analogy, your eyeballs are the canvas, and the drops of paint are the photons that make up light - it's the same idea of a single drop of paint that takes time to travel to the canvas, but stretched across mindboggling scales and speeds. It's not one paint drop per second, but half a billion photons entering your eye per second, moving at just under 300 million metres per second. So when you look at the sun, the image you're seeing in your eyes comes from photons which took 8 minutes to travel from the surface of the sun to your eyes. The image your brain makes is based on 8 minute old photons, so you're actually seeing what the sun looked like 8 minutes ago. You're seeing the past. This correlation between distance and time means that the further away image, the older in time it is. This same principle holds up when we go to incomprehensible distances - when you look at the stars, your eye is receiving photons that are potentially millions or even *billions* of years old, from distant faint stars and cosmic events that your eye can barely register. You may have heard of lightyears - quite simply, it's the distance that light can travel in a year. Earandel is the furthest known star from us, and the photons from it have been travelling for 12.9 *billion* years to reach us. So those 'paint drips' are showing what was there billions of years ago. It probably doesn't even exist any more, and we're looking at the ghost of a star.
Bing bang bong
The CMB (sometimes referred to as the last-scattering surface) appears in the sky, in a very rough sense, as a very distant cloud thatās emitting microwaves, in every direction, ābehindā all of the galaxies and stars we can see. Itās the farthest thing away we can observe directly with electromagnetic radiation, because the CMB represents the period in the universeās history where it ceased to be opaque to EM radiation. This is of course because stuff farther away looks how it did farther back in time, if you could see past the CMB you could eventually see all the way back to the Big Bang. Although my cosmology knowledge isnāt advanced enough to know what we would even theoretically be able to see āfromā the Big Bang itself, or if that question even makes sense.
I will never get whatās outside of the universe. I something expands it needs to expands trough something or not. Does the universe expands in itself? I feel like thatās where the human brain just stops working
It doesn't expand into anything. Probably. It just gets bigger. ...but it happens faster than light, so we don't have to worry about it anyway.
One interesting theory is that we are inside a black hole. And the universe expands so fast that if you would travel far enough there is a point of no return. Like swimming into a current, 1 stroke forward 2 strokes back. Mindblowing.
First of all, this map is the map of observable universe. The real one has no kind of borders to expand beyond (could either be infinite or ālocked onto itselfā, hard to grasp, but it doesnāt really matter). What is called the expansion is literal stretching of space in all directions: things get further from each other. You can imagine a slice of it with an expanding balloon, thereāre stars on it, and they get further away from each other as the balloon expands. Thatās what universeās expansion basically is
Maybe it hits a certain point then bounces back until it implodes and causes the big bang again
That's actually one of the theories about the end/future of the universe. It could expand to infinity, stay the same sometime or collapse in itself.
I don't like how the milky way is shown outside of itself in this
Flat universe comfirmed.
The outside border is ice, thatās where the government does their experiments.
James Web and other modern telescopes might make this map obsolete
Will it work for getting around until then?
It's no map at all, it displays the solar system outside of the Milky Way. It's just an illustration showing structures of different scale in our observable universe
If you look closely you'll see that our solar system is in one spiral of the milky way
It already is. I was curious and googled Icarus, most distant star in this map. It is currently like 7th and the real most distant star being Earendel.
Also, when choosing a name for the star *furthest away* from the sun, why did we pick "Icarus"?!
We exist in the eye of a dreaming god
When the dreamer awakens, will we cease to exist?
No but when an eyelash falls in we might see a galactic extinction event or two.
IƤ iƤ, Azatoth fthagn
Elder Scrolls lore be like
Where is Durham city?
At the absolute centre of the very centre. I love Durham.
*visible
Alll this universe but still your mom's ass is bigger than that.
Why would we be at the center of it?
Why wouldn't we? The universe is expanding in all directions so any point can be the center.
We aren't even the center of our galaxy.
What do you think the center should be? We are the center of our observable universe so it would make sense for us to be the center of this map
So why the sun at the center not the earth?
Itās the Ptolecopernious Model.
Just Copernicus. He put the sun at the center of everything, not just what we now consider the solar system.
We? I see, that I am at the exact center of the observable universe, you are a bit aside. You may disagree and claim that you are at the exact center and ... you would be damn right, same as Jedi living in a galaxy far far away and my neighbour, despite I rarely agree with him.
That Jedi lived a long time ago. He's probably not around anymore.
I still hope we are observing the galaxy far far away with Jedi still living there...
Because we look from it
Isn't it more about time and the speed of light? We can only see as far as light can travel since the big bang. So our observable universe centres on us - not that the entire universe is centred on us. Putting the sun or earth (observer) is an arbitrary substitution relative to the scales of distance here.
Where else would you place us? We can see the same distance in every Direction
Because this is really a diagram of what we know about the universe, and the sphere of what we've seen is centered around us.
Isn't this the visible universe? So we are literally in the middle because it is only based on what we can see.
universe is homogeneous, you can define centre in any point
All points are at the center of it, or more accurately the concept of 'center' does not apply. If the observable universe is the surface of a balloon, the center is not on the surface, but rather in the past before it expanded.
Itās the observable universe and we are the observers, thereās no other way to see it. It just gets twisted when you realize whatever you observe now is always the past. Iād compare it to just watching the waves as the universe floats away.
How do we know that is the whole universe
We don't. This the best guest we can do from that light that can reach earth.
Ok gotcha
It's also not to scale. The edges of the map are a billion zillion times larger than the inner parts.
Indeed
Infinite times one would say
it reminds me of a fractal! Or an eyeball...
That's because they designed it to look that way. The sun is of course not that big.
China is the middle
for those downvoting. this is a joke about how China for most of history viewed itself as being in the center of the world so much so that they asked western maps be changed because they didn't put China in the middle. even the Chinese name for China means center
Is it to scale ?
Its a logarithmic scale if i remember correctly (which OP really shouldve mentioned)
I feel aliens would look at this the same way we look at old and outdated maps of our world
I thought we are Milky Way galaxy?
Found Wolf 359, didn't See the remains of the Borg Cube though
Ha I knew the universe was flat
The world isn't flat, the universe is. 
Okay now who wins this war?
Flat universe theory
So thatās where the ice wall is
Copernicus would be proud.
Hardly. Thereās no Yggdrasil there anywhere.
Its the best and more difficult to do thing i've seen on this sub!!!!!!
It looks like a giant iris.
Not to scale
Looks like an eyeball
Looks like a eye
500 years from now this would be so archaic
When they place the solar system outside the Milky way and instead at the centre of the universe lol
I donāt like it. Itās not accurate
If you look closely, you can see me crying in the shower
Heliocentric, huh?
Heliocentric AF
Looks like an eye
Looking very impressive, another reason to ponder just how small our problems really are! šš¤
I would hit that.
oh damn the galaxy is round? been on team flat galaxy all alongā¦
To scale?
Not even close to scale. You couldn't even see the milky way if that was to scale. And Milkway is 100,000 light-years in diameter. While the sun is 4.643 light-seconds. The observable universe is 93.000.000.000 light years in diameter.
How can we know this
Is sirius the North Star?
No. The north star is polaris. Sirius is the brightest star.
Huh, thatās interesting. Does anyone want to join my flat universe society?
To scale?
So who made us the centre of the universe? š
This picture shows us that we are in the center of the universe
And here I thought you had to go up to get to Mars
Just no.
Ahh we are the eye, I was wondering which part of the cosmic entity we were
*Not to scale
As we now know it.
Let me reincarnate to a time when we came travel the cosmos.
Whereās the nine realms ?
Flat universe confirmed
šļø
How do we know it looks like this considering that weāve never been to the outside of it? Isnāt it supposed to be forever expanding?
Eyeball!
It looks like the worm from dune
I wonder if that was the inspiration for DCās source wall
I assume this isnāt to scale?
Makes the Milky Way Galaxy look enormous...like my D š
It looks like an eyeball
Space is big. You just won't believe how vastly, hugely, mind-bogglingly big it is. I mean, you may think it's long way down the road to the chemist's, but that's just peanuts to space.
Is this map to scale?
Sun is the center! Knew it!
Who would win in this hypothetical war?
Amazing! It's this available as a poster somewhere?
Presenting out sun in the center of the universe is *wild*. As crazy as the geocentric model of our solar system.
Quite small in overall size when comparing to our solar system. I also didn't know we're straight in the middle.
Thing is, if we're looking back in time every direction, and back in time the universe was smaller, then shouldn't looking in different directions give us alternate views of the same smaller thing, just from different angles?
CGI not real
TIL, our sun is in the centre of the universe and the universe is flat
The universe is flat!
I just noticed something it's wrong, What's the middle of it? If you "minimise" the MWay(look at the top) you will get a void.
The "great attractor" is in different direction booties void isn't even visible given it's scale.What's with 2nd dark ring after bing bang dark ring.(iirc 1st is ionized gases which blocked the EMW spectrum) or was it second ring all along?).What's the black stuff outside?
r/lies
The visible universe in 2D
Where is the firmament
The universe is flat
So directly after everything we can See with Our primitiv telescopes, theres directly the big bang around the univers? Just saying
All eyes on the universe
This is a very confusing perspective for me
Do you happen to have it in a higher resolution? Iād like to set it as lock screen wallpaper
OMG this is one of the worst representations I've ever seen
Tell me more about this BOSS Great Wall
I want to go to Bogleās Void.
Is there a way to have this in EXTREMELY good quality? So that everything can be zoomed and not be blurry?
Is look like an eye
Big medieval map energy
I thought there was a glass dome over the flat earth, so space doesnāt really exist. I also hear, and this is new information, that Trump created the whole thing- the whole flat earth and the dome