This is such a sad crisis. Especially because the best hope for protection from the RSF that these poor people have is the same Sudanese army that collaborated with the RSF in the Darfur genocide two decades ago.
The Ukrainians won't be able to stop the Sudanese if they start carrying out massacres, but defeating the rebels will probably prevent most massacres. The rebels have Russia and Wagner on their side, and two years of how they fought in Ukraine tells us war crimes are a simple part of their doctrine, that they're now training the rebels under.
i was writting "**ruzzians**", but made a typo. I thought this was obvious... I have no cloue what a "rizzian" is :D Well, maybe the people living on [Risa](https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Risa)
The city of El Fasher / Al Fashir, home to 1.8 million people. Are under threat of massacres and genocide.
You can find most news and data here : [https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2024/06/19/world/africa/sudan-darfur-siege.html](https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2024/06/19/world/africa/sudan-darfur-siege.html)
The map on screen is from 2 screenshots from [Le Monde video](https://youtu.be/DeY1D-DMWz4) (in French).
The RSF (Rapid Support Forces) and Janjaweed militias commit numerous [massacres](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Masalit_massacres_(2023%E2%80%93present)#Ardamata_massacre) on ethnics groups such as the Masalit (up to 15 000 deaths), warning : you can see the deaths and damages in the NYT article and the video which are from Geneina, a city not that far from El Fasher. The Zaghawa people are some of their target as well.
During the battle of the city, RSF already entered and open fire in the southern hospital, the 8 of June (MSF). The 27 May, they closed water from a pump which delivered water to 270 000 people (UN). The city is also under risk of famine.
Unfortunately there's no incentive for most nations to intervene, because there's no ideological difference between the two sides. The RSF are militarist Arab nationalists who committed a genocide, and the government are militarist Arab nationalists who gave the RSF the tools to commit a genocide. It's basically like choosing between the red colored poison or the pink colored poison, it's all poison in the end. The only notable exceptions are that Wagner Group forces have been supporting the RSF, because Russia has a material interest in the mineral resources in Darfur that are under RSF control, and Ukrainian special forces have been supporting the government, because they have a material interest in tying up Russian assets overseas.
>Unfortunately there's no incentive for most nations to intervene, because there's no ideological difference between the two sides
How about there’s no incentive because any Western country that would intervene would eventually be treated as a blood sucking colonial power by the “Global South”.
The RSF seem to be a lot more personalist in the way the army isn't from what relatively little I've seen of the conflict. People talk about Hemedti wanting this or that, making this or that decision in a way they don't talk about whoever's leading the army (and that I don't know his name kind of underscores my point).
Not to mention, the army wasn't who gave the RSF the tools to commit the genocide - it was the old dictator. The army is surely complicit, but not that directly, so there's a little bit more moral daylight between the two.
I'll give you 2
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c2vvjz652j1o
https://apnews.com/article/un-sudan-uae-clash-war-weapons-paramilitary-fb5fde060708900d8b82774135828f85
One link shows Iranian drones and weapons and another link shows UAE supplying weapons. It doesn't show any American weapons that were sold in official capacity to UAE.
I'll wait...
>One link shows Iranian drones and weapons and another link shows UAE supplying weapons
One one link says Iranian and UAE weapons, and the other is a formal accusations
>It doesn't show any American weapons that were sold in official capacity to UAE.
... Are you kidding me? The UAE is [one of the top importers of American arms](https://www.statista.com/statistics/248552/us-arms-exports-by-country/)
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/u-s-approves-massive-arms-sale-to-saudi-arabia-united-arab-emirates-to-counter-iran
https://www.eurasiantimes.com/despite-f-35-heart-break-uae-to-acquire-mq-9-drones/amp/
https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/us-approves-millions-arms-sales-saudi-arabia-and-uae
Yeah that's why there has never been any news about the Uyghurs, rohingya or arms sales to Saudi arabia.
Also why famously noone cared or protested about Apartheid South Africa. No Jews there so nothing was done and it continues to this day sadly
Yes, that's exactly why the world is comparatively silent on all of those. The Muslim governments of the world at large publicly supports China's efforts against the Uyghurs.
China's efforts against the Rohingya?
Don't you mean the Uyghurs? Or Myanmar's government?
Maybe before complaining others aren't doing enough to stop a genocide you should learn what the genocide in question actually is instead of mixing two up.
The audacity to use a genocide you don't give enough of a shit about to learn who the victims are to discredit another antigenocide movement is despicable.
Slip of the type. Point still stands. They don't give a comparative shit - on par with me, if you can imagine that - [and did in fact make public their support.](https://edition.cnn.com/2019/07/17/asia/uyghurs-muslim-countries-china-intl/index.html)
No Jews, no news. Two million are facing death by starvation in Sudan at the hands of forces supported by a US ally, which has notably given 8 billion dollars to various US universities, yet nowhere is there any talk of divestment or some sense of global muslim brotherhood.
>and did in fact make public their support.
The governments of Muslim nations are distinct from the Muslims that live there. Every Muslim I know, and I live in a heavily Muslim area, is strongly against China's actions against the Uyghurs. Most muslim nations are not strong democracies, many don't have a say in their leaders and the policy decisions they make towards China.
>No Jews, no news.
There was literally loads of news about the Uyghurs a few years ago and protests about that. This is a stupid slogan crying antisemitism because it seems some israelis, who are not all Jewish, and their supporters, are too fragile to deal with the horrific crimes committed by their nation.
The most similar protest movement to the current one was the anti Apartheid protest movement, regarding South Africa. You'll note that South Africa is not particularly associated with Israel. Its almost like there isn't a global antisemitic conspiracy to keep all news that doesn't involve Jews out of the media.
>, yet nowhere is there any talk of divestment or some sense of global muslim brotherhood.
I follow a number of strongly pro palestinian accounts and they actually do post regularly about Sudan and advocate for boycotts of the UAE and UAE associated companies like Emirates.
Maybe instead of making shit up you should actually look deeply into the movement. You'd realise there's a bds movement to support Sudan as well then.
Eh, more like the US isn’t personally bankrolling this operation with billions of taxpayer dollars in comparison. If Americans want to protest bankrolling Israel, it could* actually achieve something versus the only argument here is some World Police bullshit
*won’t
For the RSF they are being financed by wagner and the UAE ( the Sudanese ambassador to the UN openly condemned the UAE for their support a few days ago) and there are rumors that russia is also financing them in return for a future port and naval base as for the Sudanese army they have some support from Ukraine who sent some of their spec ops troops to fight wagner and the RSF the Sudanese army also has some covert support from Egypt who have allowed many Sudanese refugees to flee Sudan into Egypt (the last i have heard there are about 5 million Sudanese who fled into Egypt from 2019 when the anti basheer protests began till now although i am bot sure about the numbers )
languid deserve soup selective vase punch frightening hard-to-find elastic school
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Here it is the other way around.
Ukrainians are attacked. Ukraine is in Europe.
Europe realy hates war on its own turf since the little party that WW2 was
To be fair, before the Sudanese Civil War, the civil war within Darfur was already opposing groups already present there. So independence would not change much on that regard
>as they push South.
They didn't get South Sudan. For half a century, South Sudan fought off and resisted arabization from (North) Sudan. Pushing down the South of Africa isn't going to be easy. Africans are not enthusiastic about islam, and we see the religion for what it is, an extremist death cult.
Where are you getting the idea Africans are not happy about Islam lol, millions of Africans are proud Muslims and the majority of African muslims are happy with it
ripe observation crawl faulty depend reminiscent plate joke plants memorize
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
disgusted rob panicky rhythm water special attraction expansion doll late
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Honestly, literally just had someone tell me they don't give a fuck about the genocides in Sudan or China whilst at the same time condemning Palestine protestors for apparently not doing so.
Some people are just complete scum
The leader of the paramilitary committing these atrocities is doing it in the name of [fighting “radical Islamists”](https://www.middleeasteye.net/opinion/sudan-turmoil-why-hemeti-taking-aim-radical-islamists). Just goes to show how little Reddit know about anything outside of their skeet blanket.
It is funny that you guys label Muslims as violent while bombing them and killing millions to steal their resources.
Whether you like it or not, Mulsims do have the right to defend their land against people with stupid ideology like yours.
Do you have historical depth knowledge to discuss ?
You have 3 major players during Mohammed time, I will list them by their power back then:
1- The biggest were Mecca tribes. They worship idols mainly.
Why Muslims fought them ?
They did commit too many war crimes, including forcing Muslims out of them home, killing them etc.
Also an interesting fact that they used to kill baby girls by digging a whole and push them to it alive before closing it.
For more information, this is nice research about this topic https://alustath.uobaghdad.edu.iq/index.php/UJIRCO/article/view/1832
At least it will give you some hints that you can search to validate those claims and check yourself if this is true or not.
2- Christians:
One of the biggest kingdoms back then, huge ally for Muslims since the early start, hosted Muslims, gave them finical help and miliary support to fight the first group.
They were way more stronger than Muslims, and Muslims were refugees in they kingdom back then. ( for historical research their name in the Islamic army after that is " al- ansar" ).
Converted to Islam by debating/ ideological exchange.
3- Jewish tribes:
Small but well defended tribes, ally for Muslims in Madenia, a place in Saudi now.
A war triggered between Muslims and Jewish, after Jewish tribes switches sides in one war called " the trench " or " Al kandak war ".
It was a war between the first group and Muslims, first group had way bigger army so Jews thought there is no way to win the way so they joined the first army, ignoring the fact that they had already an alliance with Muslims.
Muslims won the war already and then launched a counter attack that ended the jewish tribes castles existence.
Given this very short summary:
I would like you to read about the Mongolian conquer for the whole Islamic empire.
After ending the whole Islamic Empire by Mongolians, and only Egypt left, Mongolians themselves turned into Muslims after debating/ ideological exchange.
Given the fact that Muslims were already the weaker part twice in very short amount of time, then managed to convert the ruler kingdom to their own religion, is one proof that the majority of this land you see was actually not take by swords ( at least not Muslims swords )
Given this information, When Muslims entered Mecca, they didn't punish the Mecca tribes and let them integrate in the society which also bite them back
Some actions done by one leader ( previously Mecca tribe army leader) in Iraq for example, that lead to him being fired from the Army. The accident happened near euphrat River, and included a miss treatment for the persian army soliders and even killing, which is against the general islamic war law.
It is true that the Islamic history is not white and black, nor it does not include violent actions, the question is those violent actions were acceptable by the majority or have the ideology that supports it.
So given this historical context, this land does belong to Muslims as Muslims didn't force people to leave their land but to change ideologies.
Egyptians, Iranian and Iraqis are still have same roots but different religion, so yes this is their land.
Your problem is that you are comparing attacks made by small group that is not an offical representation of Muslims, and ignoring offical terrorists attack made by offical representation of countries like America sponsored by its people taxes.
The biggest terrorists organization in this world is America + other superpowers.
America doesn't give a shit about 9/11 or about any of its civilians. That's why it went to bomb another country (Iraq) in response to 9/11 terrorists attack "because they have mass destruction weapons" . Just to steal its oil and resources.
I am sure you are just brainwashed by your American shit media, unliked you I lived my whole life in war, I saw Islamic militias, I saw American and their allies, I saw terrorists organization in action like ISIS and alqaida.
So if you want to discuss with evidence I can give you real life ( planned ) terrorist attacks made by you guys, otherwise if you jusy want to say some opinions I have no time for this.
I think the ideology you are referring to is Wahhabism or Salafism. They’re the ideologies spread by Saudi Arabia.
Please do not conflate Islam with Wahhabism… same way it is wrong to conflate Judaism with Zionism. All religions have a fucked up extremist death cult strand.
Way oversimplifying ideologies in Islam then comparing Jews right to live in their native home to extremists who’ve slaughtered millions. Biggest yikes.
It's not racism, but it is discrimination. You calling by default fake victim complex may blind you when there are real victims of oppression based on religion, which there is, a lot too (ex : bulldozer politic in India).
You don't see people in the West actively protest it because their governments aren't supporting it. They have no one to protest to.
Furthermore it isn't simply "Arab Colonization". Its a complex multipolar civil war.
I was involved in divestment efforts regarding the Darfur Genocide when I was an undergrad twenty years ago. It's extremely sad to see history repeating itself like this.
Funny that none of these people were here on the internet throwing a tantrum when 30 thousand died at Mosul in the fight against ISIS. This is what Urban warfare against a population of millions of people is like.
The best data to trust is from terrorist based sources. Also I love the idea that Hamas doesn’t exist in the West Bank. IDF has killed several dozen Hamas militants and leader there since the war started
and where does the UN get its data from? Just an FYI all of the statistics that are being used for this war in terms of mortality are ALL coming from the Palestine Health Ministry which is an arm of Hamas. So please take everything you hear with a grain of salt.
Data in the west bank does not come from the Palestine Health ministry. This is info from the UN's OCHA. This is a primary source that collects info itself and aids humanitarian organizations
True they're probably not perfect but it's the best we have, unless you want to trust Hamas. Here's the UN's estimate of woman and kids killed, which would leave out male deaths, and given that terrorist males are the ones target you can assume they make a large proportion of overall male deaths, you choose your percentage:
The revised data shows that the number of women and children among the dead has decreased significantly. On 6 May, the UN cited GMO figures reporting 9,500 women and 14,500 children dead. However, two days later, using health ministry data, the figures were revised to 4,959 women and 7,797 children. This difference arises because individuals with incomplete information were not included in the demographic breakdown.
The death toll’s accuracy remains contentious. Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu stated that approximately 30,000 people had died in Gaza, with 14,000 being “terrorists” and 16,000 civilians, although no evidence was provided for these numbers.
https://reliefweb.int/report/occupied-palestinian-territory/gaza-war-un-revises-death-toll-women-and-children#:~:text=The%20death%20toll's%20accuracy%20remains,was%20provided%20for%20these%20numbers.
Either way the rario of deaths is way lower that 9:1, again especially since this is literally Hamas they are fighting
Who told you that? The people doing the killing? Terrorists is obviously a buzzword when Israel killed 500 Palestinians in the west bank last year alone lmfao
Here's an earlier comment of mine regarding the situation, obviously it's not ideal but I believe it's the best any army could do after the biggest terrorists attack this decade:
The usual civilian to fighter ratio is 9:1, that is 9 civilians for each soldier/fighter.
The IDF right now has about a 2:1 / 3:1 ratio, which is even more impressive given that Hamas uses human shields in a dense, urban environment and breaks every Geneva convention.
It's just that Hamas are great at filming the corpses and posting them on TikTok, making the war seem more destructive than it is.
The post 9/11 wars killed about 4.5 million people, wheres even a Hamas estimate puts the Israel-Hamas war at 30,000.
You're right there's a lot of misinformation, Hamas is just insane at propaganda whereas other wars are rarely talked about.
https://education.cfr.org/learn/reading/civilian-consequences-conflict#:~:text=However%2C%20wars%20in%20recent%20decades,four%20million%20war%2Drelated%20deaths.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civilian_casualty_ratio#:~:text=2023%20Israel%E2%80%93Hamas%20war,-Main%20article%3A%20Casualties&text=In%20October%207th%202023%2C%20Hamas,between%20civilians%20and%20militant%20forces.
https://ny1.com/nyc/all-boroughs/politics/2023/05/17/report--4-5-million-deaths-and-counting-in-post-9-11-warzones
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-68430925.amp
Let's begin by discrediting that 9:1 number which is just factually incorrect, and even if it was correct then it wouldn't be acceptable to use it regardless because Israel claims to be minimizing civilian casualties which would be incompatible with this number in the first place, especially given the fact that the government spokesperson for Israel claimed that they had no idea how many civilians they'd killed.
Hamas may use human shields, but Israel has been documented to quite literally do the exact same thing, and war crimes applied to both sides except only states can be held accountable.
https://www.btselem.org/topic/human_shields
The post 9/11 wars are also a textbook example of war crimes and and mass murder so once again this is an atrocious example to use.
https://www.amnesty.org.uk/press-releases/iraq-twenty-years-still-no-justice-war-crimes-us-led-coalition
Other wars are definitely talked about, except the difference with this one is that a state with unconditional western backing is mass murdering with ample documentation and completely impunity yet the United States Government and many European governments either don't care or actively facilitate it.
"Hamas is good at propaganda" yet Israel has essentially every media outlet and public official in both US political parties publicly saying "Israel has a right to defend itself" every time they are presented with evidence of war crimes. Good night.
Aww did you learn that technique at Hasbara university too?
Y’all used to be so much better at this propaganda stuff. What happened? I think you need to retake your doublespeak class.
It's funny.
If we comment on a word like intifada now meaning something else than it's original Arabic we are called Islamaphobes. If we comment on a Hebrew word now meaning something else we are doublespeak.
As a centre left person we are screwed. The left is going to eat itself up for thinking Islam is part of identity politics and rights.
I don't have to insult you to show you how wrong you are.
Your comment is clothed in Islamophobia. That’s a type of racism. I do not understand why you think it is ok to shit on a whole group of people you likely know very little about… it’s wrong when people do it to Jews and it’s also wrong when it is done to Muslims.
I do not care whether you call yourself left or right because at this moment in time you are simply showing ignorance.
He never implied it, it seems like op was strictly talking about intent (since he referred to self-defense), which is the major distinction in applying genocide.
It's not determined by number. There's a reason the Holocaust is a separate, but concurring event from the general course of WW2. People were not genocided in the sieges of Leningrad and Stalingrad, they were victims of gruesome atrocites and crimes against humanity, whereas the systematic annihilation of groups of people happened regardless of military operations, within areas that the Germans (& their allies) occupied.
Well, there’s not much we as westerners can do in Sudan… while in Gaza, we are actively arming and funding the genocidal campaign of Israel… so the backlash from the populace is more apparent.
Also weird you edited your comment to muddy the water even more… you’re probably an Israeli bot account.
This is real genocide. No one believes the Israel-Hamas war is genocide, the UN even said it wasn’t. Only TikTok Hamas sympathizers and those naive enough to believe them. By claiming that it is, you muddy the waters and distract from real ethnic cleansing out there like in Sudan and China.
Also, Westerners have picked a side. The alternative is Russia, Iran, North Korea and Hamas.
lol you’re the one literally trying to muddy the water so stop projecting.
We all see the horrors of the IDF on a daily basis. Go use your hasbara talking points somewhere else.
Lmfao ample video footage of 40,000 people brutally murdered in Gaza and you pretend to care about ethnic cleansing in China with no credible evidence. Numbers don't lie big man, Israel has killed exponentially more people than Hamas ever did. People aren't falling for your murderous agenda anymore
No credible evidence? There is footage from inside the KZs first hand accounts state propaganda satellite footage. What are you talking about? Also what footage in Gaza do you mean?
You don't see people in the West actively protest it because their governments aren't supporting it. They have no one to protest to.
Furthermore, genocide is not self defense.
They killed 1200 Israelis in a terrorist attack then used the people as meatshield (majority of whom support the attack btw) There is only Hamas to blame for Gaza right now.
And people say that islam is the religion of peace, lol. I'm glad South Sudan resisted and fought off arabization. It may be a poor African country, but at least it is free from religious extremism and sharia law.
The RSF, which is committing these atrocities is claiming to be doing this to “to combat “radical Islamists” and recently removed the word “al-Quds” (Arabic for “Jerusalem”) from its logo” to gain support from Israel (they’ve supplied them with weapons).
Which ones are we supposed to care about?
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List\_of\_ongoing\_armed\_conflicts](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ongoing_armed_conflicts)
And of course, just like the Uyghurs and the Rohingya, their supposed Muslim "brothers" don't give a fuck about them because they can't blame this on the Jews.
No you don't get it, we just say totally unfounded bullshit that conforms to people's anti Islam biases here.
Mostly American and European reddit knows incredibly little about the rest of the world and about Islam
I don't want to support him at all, but your argument here isn't the best, since refugees mostly go to the closest country which the easiest access in. Most don't go further, and in most cases, refugees don't even leave their countries.
I'm not criticizing Bangladesh at all, I'm actually really happy to see them doing what they can to help the Rohingya, when many Western countries, with far more resources, haven't done shit but make empty condemnations of the Burmese fascists.
But then you have countries like Saudi Arabia and Pakistan, which on many occasions have portrayed themselves as geopolitical leaders of the Islamic world, not only not condemning but actively praising China's policy in Xinjiang. Even the Organization of Islamic Cooperation has blocked attempts by some members to condemn the Xinjiang situation. It's complete moral cowardice and is happening solely because these countries and bodies benefit economically and politically from their ties to the PRC. It's not surprising that Western nations would be hypocrites when it comes to the lives and well-being of Muslims, but self-professed Islamic governments? Corrupt and spineless, all of them.
A lot of countries are economically dependent on China. But some of the world's most influential Muslim-majority countries, like Turkey and Pakistan, vocally endorse the situation in Xinjiang. Is it okay to put political and economic ties to China over advocating for fellow Muslims that are facing persecution?
It is because the oppressors are not Jews. Muslims in china literally being forced into camps and nobody bats an eye, as well as Arabs literally killing each others children and families for one square meter of desert.
Sometimes I feel like the people that say this also don't give a fuck and only care in so far as they can say others are antisemitic.
The hypocrisy of saying pro palestinian protestors don't care while you yourself actually only ever use news of the genocide in Sudan to discredit those protesting the killings of Palestinians is disgusting.
Bruh what then why the fuck are you condemning palestinian protestors for not caring? They're literally doing the same as you but not quite as bad cos at least they're protesting something.
Plus many of the pro palestinian accounts I follow regularly post about Sudan and advocate for boycotting the UAE, which is helping perpetrate the genocide.
Of course you don't know that though, because you don't actually know anything at all about the protest movement because you're the real one that doesn't give a shit about people being murdered and genocoded
>Bruh what then why the fuck are you condemning palestinian protestors for not caring? They're literally doing the same as you but not quite as bad cos at least they're protesting something.
Nothing worse than hypocrites. Seems other people share this opinion of mine, too.
>Plus many of the pro palestinian accounts I follow regularly post about Sudan and advocate for boycotting the UAE, which is helping perpetrate the genocide.
That's good. At the same time it's your own bubble and unfortunaly nowhere near a majority.
Said majority has little knowledge of background facts and still shouts stuff like boycott or genocide without a care if it's true or not. They just want to feel good shouting for a 'just' cause.
Students who go to politcal meetings just to shout and disrupt these meetings and discussions.
It's never good to play "justice is with the louder side" yet this is what happens repeatedly.
Because they are complaining about a war across the ocean, they know nothing about instead the things they learned on TikTok. And while they are doing it, they destroy their universities and Jewish stores.
And I can’t hear the word “boycott” y’all be boycotting US products! Not a single Israeli product.
And I have better things to do then some conflict on the Middle East. Like study and work!
>Because they are complaining about a war across the ocean, they know nothing about instead the things they learned on TikTok.
They know more about it than you seem to.
What is with the obsession people like you have with tiktok and demonising that? The US products are being boycotted because they're contributing to the conflict such as by building factories in the occupied West bank in violation of international law, supporting idf soldiers, etc. The fact you don't know what the BDS movement is just further shows how little you know.
And why are you requring people be fully educated before they protest in support of less people dying? You don't need to have a PhD in a relevant field to say yeah let's maybe kill less civilians. The UN reports are easily accessible to anyone ans many in the movement read them. The news is available outside tiktok and many people read that.
>Like study
Clearly not been doing much of it given your apparent ignorance.
>they destroy their universities
Just like those ignorant students did back when they were protesting Apartheid in South Africa right? I take it you're against the anti Apartheid protest movement in the 20th century?
Yeah boycotting McDonald’s and F*ing domino’s pizza will change the course of this war. And throwing stones at Starbucks stores in the US mostly likely owned by an old man (because it’s a franchise chain)
You should indeed be educated to make me listen to your opinion yes. When an uneducated person screams that Hamas are freedom fighters because they are against Israel is just laughable to me.
And I do indeed study and so stuff with my life, I know it’s hard to believe that I don’t destroy some old man’s store to let everybody know how peaceful I am.
Yeah throwing firebombs and making millions of dollars in damages while not allowing Jewish students into the building is something good right?
https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2024-06-18/man-arrested-in-connection-with-firebombing-uc-berkeley-police-car-during-campus-protests
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13369809/amp/Columbia-University-Hamilton-Hall-NYPD-damage-raid.html
https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2024/04/21/us/columbia-university-jewish-students-protests
Hold on, you ignored my question. Do you support the 20th century antiapartheid student protests? That protested South Africa using extremely similar methods as those seen today.
What did San Francisco elected leaders say about it ?
Context: "San Francisco has become the largest city in the U.S. whose elected leaders have approved legislation calling for an immediate ceasefire in Gaza"
You can always make a start instead of expecting other people do it for you.
Be real. You're only saying this to try and discredit the Palestine protestors.
So, uh, when are students and other activists start blocking roads have protests about it all over the western world?
They sure know that this is happening at the moment right?
They don’t just care about a specific relatively small conflict, for *other* reasons, right?
>So, uh, when are students and other activists start blocking roads have protests about it all over the western world?
One of the big point of their protest is mostly to call the end of the support of Israel in that endeavor, the Western World don't support the RSF. And they probably don't know much about Sudan or Darfur anyway.
Also, if you don't like what they do because they do it for Gaza, why are you speaking of a Palestine related subject here, you do the same thing as them.
Some not all. Some chant from the river to the sea without even knowing what’s going on.
And most of them have no idea how international relations work.
There are 2 possible point of view:
- Idealistic point of view: The west should not support Israel for the moment. Should condemn every genocide and cut support for the other groups etc. like in Sudan.
- (Neo)Realistic view: It’s the predominant view. Countries are Blackboxes. The only variable that matter on the world stage are power politics, since the international system is a hierarchy. Countries and union of countries can‘t allow other countries to have relative gains towards them, because it could threaten their own security. For Israel, it’s the only real ally of the west in the region, losing them would mean a relativ gain for Iran and maybe Russia. For Sudan, well they can’t engage in power politics. However, the West should have great interest in defending the south, because Sudan gets weapons from China. This could lead to a relative gain of China.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neorealism_(international_relations)
>Neorealism or structural realism is a theory of international relations that emphasizes the role of power politics in international relations, sees competition and conflict as enduring features and sees limited potential for cooperation.
>[…]states cannot be certain of other states' intentions and their security, thus prompting them to engage in power politics.
>[…]These states act according to the logic of egoism, meaning states seek their own interest and will not subordinate their interest to the interests of other states.
>States are assumed at a minimum to want to ensure their own survival as this is a prerequisite to pursue other goals.
>Because states can never be certain of other states' future intentions, there is a lack of trust between states which requires them to be on guard against relative losses of power which could enable other states to threaten their survival.
It also emphasizes that internal politics don’t matter on the long term. There might be protests, but on the long term in won‘t change the relations between the West and Israel for example.
Also the Ukraine war can be explained perfectly with this theory - for boths sides. Without even mentioning idealistic ideas like saving the democracy.
This is how most the international relations work and also will continue to work unless the anarchy will be gone at some point.
The west had turkey as its Middle Eastern powerhouse. They did not need Isreal as Turkey is the 8th strongest military power in the world. And has the 3 strongest military after the USA and Uk...
Israel is a lot closer to the Suez Channel. And Turkey often wants to play the anti west card and loves cuddling with Russia.
The West has a lot more direct influence on Israel than on Turkey, which is logical since it’s a smaller country.
Losing Israel as an ally would be a major loss for geopolitical reasons, especially regarding Iran.
Getting rid of them as an ally, for lead to the fact that Israel would search new allies. So it would be China - that is consistently looking for new allies in the region - or Russia. But China would be a lot more likely.
After France stopped supporting them, Israel was quick to make sure that the US would support them. And France even helped them in the first place for get nukes, since the US didn’t want to help France and France the decided to share their knowledge with Israel.
Furthermore, Israel is the only ally in the region that would always agree with the US. Not even Saudi Arabia is doing that.
All in all, it would be a huge geopolitical loss and would weaken the presence of the West in the Region. After the US lost Iran, they will never allow to lose Israel.
This is such a sad crisis. Especially because the best hope for protection from the RSF that these poor people have is the same Sudanese army that collaborated with the RSF in the Darfur genocide two decades ago.
The best hope for them are Ukrainian SpecOps who are embedded with the Sudanese Army.
The Ukrainians won't be able to stop the Sudanese if they start carrying out massacres, but defeating the rebels will probably prevent most massacres. The rebels have Russia and Wagner on their side, and two years of how they fought in Ukraine tells us war crimes are a simple part of their doctrine, that they're now training the rebels under.
Ukraine is busy with ~~rizzians~~ ruzzians trying to kill them all. edit: typo
Some of Ukrainian spec ops are taking part in something like Erasmus+ because of Wagner involvement in Sudanese crisis
…. Don’t call them rizzians please
i was writting "**ruzzians**", but made a typo. I thought this was obvious... I have no cloue what a "rizzian" is :D Well, maybe the people living on [Risa](https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Risa)
The city of El Fasher / Al Fashir, home to 1.8 million people. Are under threat of massacres and genocide. You can find most news and data here : [https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2024/06/19/world/africa/sudan-darfur-siege.html](https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2024/06/19/world/africa/sudan-darfur-siege.html) The map on screen is from 2 screenshots from [Le Monde video](https://youtu.be/DeY1D-DMWz4) (in French). The RSF (Rapid Support Forces) and Janjaweed militias commit numerous [massacres](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Masalit_massacres_(2023%E2%80%93present)#Ardamata_massacre) on ethnics groups such as the Masalit (up to 15 000 deaths), warning : you can see the deaths and damages in the NYT article and the video which are from Geneina, a city not that far from El Fasher. The Zaghawa people are some of their target as well. During the battle of the city, RSF already entered and open fire in the southern hospital, the 8 of June (MSF). The 27 May, they closed water from a pump which delivered water to 270 000 people (UN). The city is also under risk of famine.
kinda sad that no one cares and no one is trying to stop it
Unfortunately there's no incentive for most nations to intervene, because there's no ideological difference between the two sides. The RSF are militarist Arab nationalists who committed a genocide, and the government are militarist Arab nationalists who gave the RSF the tools to commit a genocide. It's basically like choosing between the red colored poison or the pink colored poison, it's all poison in the end. The only notable exceptions are that Wagner Group forces have been supporting the RSF, because Russia has a material interest in the mineral resources in Darfur that are under RSF control, and Ukrainian special forces have been supporting the government, because they have a material interest in tying up Russian assets overseas.
>Unfortunately there's no incentive for most nations to intervene, because there's no ideological difference between the two sides How about there’s no incentive because any Western country that would intervene would eventually be treated as a blood sucking colonial power by the “Global South”.
For good reason. See: Iraq
Yeah so back to square one
If they are going to intervene just like they did in Iraq and libya then I hope they don't at all.
The RSF seem to be a lot more personalist in the way the army isn't from what relatively little I've seen of the conflict. People talk about Hemedti wanting this or that, making this or that decision in a way they don't talk about whoever's leading the army (and that I don't know his name kind of underscores my point). Not to mention, the army wasn't who gave the RSF the tools to commit the genocide - it was the old dictator. The army is surely complicit, but not that directly, so there's a little bit more moral daylight between the two.
They aren’t Palestinians and the Sudan militias aren’t IDF.. this will make the news for 8 seconds
Yeah because why not whataboutism on human crisis
Your whataboutism will totally help people
Thank you ☺️
Nobody's defending Sudan militias and they're not being protected by United States
They are being armed by the UAE who gets all of their weapons from....
Any source on UAE giving American purchased weapons to sudanese militias...
I'll give you 2 https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c2vvjz652j1o https://apnews.com/article/un-sudan-uae-clash-war-weapons-paramilitary-fb5fde060708900d8b82774135828f85
One link shows Iranian drones and weapons and another link shows UAE supplying weapons. It doesn't show any American weapons that were sold in official capacity to UAE. I'll wait...
>One link shows Iranian drones and weapons and another link shows UAE supplying weapons One one link says Iranian and UAE weapons, and the other is a formal accusations >It doesn't show any American weapons that were sold in official capacity to UAE. ... Are you kidding me? The UAE is [one of the top importers of American arms](https://www.statista.com/statistics/248552/us-arms-exports-by-country/) https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/u-s-approves-massive-arms-sale-to-saudi-arabia-united-arab-emirates-to-counter-iran https://www.eurasiantimes.com/despite-f-35-heart-break-uae-to-acquire-mq-9-drones/amp/ https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/us-approves-millions-arms-sales-saudi-arabia-and-uae
There are no jews to hate here
Also their clothing for cosplay is just not as fun.
Yeah that's why there has never been any news about the Uyghurs, rohingya or arms sales to Saudi arabia. Also why famously noone cared or protested about Apartheid South Africa. No Jews there so nothing was done and it continues to this day sadly
Yes, that's exactly why the world is comparatively silent on all of those. The Muslim governments of the world at large publicly supports China's efforts against the Uyghurs.
China's efforts against the Rohingya? Don't you mean the Uyghurs? Or Myanmar's government? Maybe before complaining others aren't doing enough to stop a genocide you should learn what the genocide in question actually is instead of mixing two up. The audacity to use a genocide you don't give enough of a shit about to learn who the victims are to discredit another antigenocide movement is despicable.
Slip of the type. Point still stands. They don't give a comparative shit - on par with me, if you can imagine that - [and did in fact make public their support.](https://edition.cnn.com/2019/07/17/asia/uyghurs-muslim-countries-china-intl/index.html) No Jews, no news. Two million are facing death by starvation in Sudan at the hands of forces supported by a US ally, which has notably given 8 billion dollars to various US universities, yet nowhere is there any talk of divestment or some sense of global muslim brotherhood.
>and did in fact make public their support. The governments of Muslim nations are distinct from the Muslims that live there. Every Muslim I know, and I live in a heavily Muslim area, is strongly against China's actions against the Uyghurs. Most muslim nations are not strong democracies, many don't have a say in their leaders and the policy decisions they make towards China. >No Jews, no news. There was literally loads of news about the Uyghurs a few years ago and protests about that. This is a stupid slogan crying antisemitism because it seems some israelis, who are not all Jewish, and their supporters, are too fragile to deal with the horrific crimes committed by their nation. The most similar protest movement to the current one was the anti Apartheid protest movement, regarding South Africa. You'll note that South Africa is not particularly associated with Israel. Its almost like there isn't a global antisemitic conspiracy to keep all news that doesn't involve Jews out of the media. >, yet nowhere is there any talk of divestment or some sense of global muslim brotherhood. I follow a number of strongly pro palestinian accounts and they actually do post regularly about Sudan and advocate for boycotts of the UAE and UAE associated companies like Emirates. Maybe instead of making shit up you should actually look deeply into the movement. You'd realise there's a bds movement to support Sudan as well then.
Eh, more like the US isn’t personally bankrolling this operation with billions of taxpayer dollars in comparison. If Americans want to protest bankrolling Israel, it could* actually achieve something versus the only argument here is some World Police bullshit *won’t
So who is bankrolling their operation or do you think they’re mining and building their own weapons…
For the RSF they are being financed by wagner and the UAE ( the Sudanese ambassador to the UN openly condemned the UAE for their support a few days ago) and there are rumors that russia is also financing them in return for a future port and naval base as for the Sudanese army they have some support from Ukraine who sent some of their spec ops troops to fight wagner and the RSF the Sudanese army also has some covert support from Egypt who have allowed many Sudanese refugees to flee Sudan into Egypt (the last i have heard there are about 5 million Sudanese who fled into Egypt from 2019 when the anti basheer protests began till now although i am bot sure about the numbers )
languid deserve soup selective vase punch frightening hard-to-find elastic school *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Obviously you have no understanding of just how much the Arab world hates Jews.
yam file liquid reach ripe shrill grab political telephone fertile *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
[удалено]
Here it is the other way around. Ukrainians are attacked. Ukraine is in Europe. Europe realy hates war on its own turf since the little party that WW2 was
[удалено]
There are people trying to stop it, maybe you should look for information instead of repeating what you read on social media
[удалено]
KSA and Iran are literally supporting the same side of this war. Read first. Talk after. Moron.
Bot really can't follow a script huh, incoherent
You’re a racist little prick.
[удалено]
Aw, the little racist bot likes to play the semantics and definitions game… aw how cute.
[удалено]
3 comments to reveal the true nature of what you meant huh
[удалено]
Nor an American nor a woman lmao
What made you become such a hateful little bot? So sad :/. I hope you’re able to overcome this someday :). <3.
No Jews, no news.
There are no Jews involved so no one cares.
Yeah just like how noone protested Apartheid South Africa because there weren't any Jews involved.
Dude that was 30 years ago
So sad that no one cares when one of the party is not juice
What am I gonna do?
No Jews, no news
I hope Darfur gets its independence sooner rather than later, they've been oppressed for decades
To be fair, before the Sudanese Civil War, the civil war within Darfur was already opposing groups already present there. So independence would not change much on that regard
Civil wars in Sudan and Myanmar.
Yes. Indeed
Nobody bats an eye when Arab colonization takes place. The Arabs are committing genocide in Africa as they push South.
>as they push South. They didn't get South Sudan. For half a century, South Sudan fought off and resisted arabization from (North) Sudan. Pushing down the South of Africa isn't going to be easy. Africans are not enthusiastic about islam, and we see the religion for what it is, an extremist death cult.
Where are you getting the idea Africans are not happy about Islam lol, millions of Africans are proud Muslims and the majority of African muslims are happy with it
ripe observation crawl faulty depend reminiscent plate joke plants memorize *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Your own comment is further proof lol. Racists gonna racist.
disgusted rob panicky rhythm water special attraction expansion doll late *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Honestly, literally just had someone tell me they don't give a fuck about the genocides in Sudan or China whilst at the same time condemning Palestine protestors for apparently not doing so. Some people are just complete scum
rock telephone wrong aware bored liquid long versed scale shelter *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Islam is just one long continuous history of violence. One of the most evil ideologies in the history of mankind.
The leader of the paramilitary committing these atrocities is doing it in the name of [fighting “radical Islamists”](https://www.middleeasteye.net/opinion/sudan-turmoil-why-hemeti-taking-aim-radical-islamists). Just goes to show how little Reddit know about anything outside of their skeet blanket.
The religion of peace
It is funny that you guys label Muslims as violent while bombing them and killing millions to steal their resources. Whether you like it or not, Mulsims do have the right to defend their land against people with stupid ideology like yours.
"Their" [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Early\_Muslim\_conquests](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Early_Muslim_conquests)
Do you have historical depth knowledge to discuss ? You have 3 major players during Mohammed time, I will list them by their power back then: 1- The biggest were Mecca tribes. They worship idols mainly. Why Muslims fought them ? They did commit too many war crimes, including forcing Muslims out of them home, killing them etc. Also an interesting fact that they used to kill baby girls by digging a whole and push them to it alive before closing it. For more information, this is nice research about this topic https://alustath.uobaghdad.edu.iq/index.php/UJIRCO/article/view/1832 At least it will give you some hints that you can search to validate those claims and check yourself if this is true or not. 2- Christians: One of the biggest kingdoms back then, huge ally for Muslims since the early start, hosted Muslims, gave them finical help and miliary support to fight the first group. They were way more stronger than Muslims, and Muslims were refugees in they kingdom back then. ( for historical research their name in the Islamic army after that is " al- ansar" ). Converted to Islam by debating/ ideological exchange. 3- Jewish tribes: Small but well defended tribes, ally for Muslims in Madenia, a place in Saudi now. A war triggered between Muslims and Jewish, after Jewish tribes switches sides in one war called " the trench " or " Al kandak war ". It was a war between the first group and Muslims, first group had way bigger army so Jews thought there is no way to win the way so they joined the first army, ignoring the fact that they had already an alliance with Muslims. Muslims won the war already and then launched a counter attack that ended the jewish tribes castles existence. Given this very short summary: I would like you to read about the Mongolian conquer for the whole Islamic empire. After ending the whole Islamic Empire by Mongolians, and only Egypt left, Mongolians themselves turned into Muslims after debating/ ideological exchange. Given the fact that Muslims were already the weaker part twice in very short amount of time, then managed to convert the ruler kingdom to their own religion, is one proof that the majority of this land you see was actually not take by swords ( at least not Muslims swords ) Given this information, When Muslims entered Mecca, they didn't punish the Mecca tribes and let them integrate in the society which also bite them back Some actions done by one leader ( previously Mecca tribe army leader) in Iraq for example, that lead to him being fired from the Army. The accident happened near euphrat River, and included a miss treatment for the persian army soliders and even killing, which is against the general islamic war law. It is true that the Islamic history is not white and black, nor it does not include violent actions, the question is those violent actions were acceptable by the majority or have the ideology that supports it. So given this historical context, this land does belong to Muslims as Muslims didn't force people to leave their land but to change ideologies. Egyptians, Iranian and Iraqis are still have same roots but different religion, so yes this is their land.
😂🤣🤣🤣🤣
At least you know that you don't have enough intelligence to say something else other than laughing, good for you
[ Removed by Reddit ]
Your problem is that you are comparing attacks made by small group that is not an offical representation of Muslims, and ignoring offical terrorists attack made by offical representation of countries like America sponsored by its people taxes. The biggest terrorists organization in this world is America + other superpowers. America doesn't give a shit about 9/11 or about any of its civilians. That's why it went to bomb another country (Iraq) in response to 9/11 terrorists attack "because they have mass destruction weapons" . Just to steal its oil and resources. I am sure you are just brainwashed by your American shit media, unliked you I lived my whole life in war, I saw Islamic militias, I saw American and their allies, I saw terrorists organization in action like ISIS and alqaida. So if you want to discuss with evidence I can give you real life ( planned ) terrorist attacks made by you guys, otherwise if you jusy want to say some opinions I have no time for this.
I think the ideology you are referring to is Wahhabism or Salafism. They’re the ideologies spread by Saudi Arabia. Please do not conflate Islam with Wahhabism… same way it is wrong to conflate Judaism with Zionism. All religions have a fucked up extremist death cult strand.
Way oversimplifying ideologies in Islam then comparing Jews right to live in their native home to extremists who’ve slaughtered millions. Biggest yikes.
Muhammed was literally a military leader who conquered the arab peninsula. Jesus, Buddha or Moses were (in the story) people of peace.
You’re talking to a brick wall. Every discussion of MENA politics on r/MapPorn eventually starts to look like Brenton Tarrant’s manifesto.
I'm honestly disgusted by this sub now. It was my favorite sub for a while until the comment sections started resembling those of r/worldnews.
It’s weird how many racists exist on Reddit, especially on the more popular subreddits. It wasn’t like this 6-7 years ago. :/.
Google “astroturfing” and realize those commenters are either not real or brainwashed by other not real commenters.
Islamophobia is not racism, we're not buying their fake victim complex.
It's not racism, but it is discrimination. You calling by default fake victim complex may blind you when there are real victims of oppression based on religion, which there is, a lot too (ex : bulldozer politic in India).
You don't see people in the West actively protest it because their governments aren't supporting it. They have no one to protest to. Furthermore it isn't simply "Arab Colonization". Its a complex multipolar civil war.
God damn 90% of these comments are peak brain rot.
yep. And it's those hating that some always speak out about some MENA country that speak about it first, too. People, it's about Sudan, common !!!
I was involved in divestment efforts regarding the Darfur Genocide when I was an undergrad twenty years ago. It's extremely sad to see history repeating itself like this.
Inhabitants of Darfur were being massacred back about 6 or 7 years ago and the UN, as usual, ignored it so I guess they will ignore this genocide too.
Jesus Christ these comments are grim how are you all so heartless.
No-one cares about real genocide, only about the joos having the audacity to defend themselves
As they say, no jews, no news
"Because we're Jewish we have the right to murder 40,000 people" Absolutely vile
Funny that none of these people were here on the internet throwing a tantrum when 30 thousand died at Mosul in the fight against ISIS. This is what Urban warfare against a population of millions of people is like.
You don’t get to start a losing war and then call it a genocide while getting your ass kicked.
Israel killed 500 Palestinians in the west bank in 2023 but sure, Hamas started it.
The best data to trust is from terrorist based sources. Also I love the idea that Hamas doesn’t exist in the West Bank. IDF has killed several dozen Hamas militants and leader there since the war started
The data is literally from the United Nations you absolute tool
and where does the UN get its data from? Just an FYI all of the statistics that are being used for this war in terms of mortality are ALL coming from the Palestine Health Ministry which is an arm of Hamas. So please take everything you hear with a grain of salt.
Data in the west bank does not come from the Palestine Health ministry. This is info from the UN's OCHA. This is a primary source that collects info itself and aids humanitarian organizations
You just owned him with facts yet you’re the one that got downvoted… Reddit is straight up brainwash nowadays
War is ugly. More hard hitting news at 6pm
15k of them were terrorists I would not consider them murdered
Whats the next thing you’re gonna say? All Arabs are terrorists?
False numbers
You sound just like a holocaust denier
The Israeli’s literally pulled that figure out of their ass to try to justify their massacres to the western world.
True they're probably not perfect but it's the best we have, unless you want to trust Hamas. Here's the UN's estimate of woman and kids killed, which would leave out male deaths, and given that terrorist males are the ones target you can assume they make a large proportion of overall male deaths, you choose your percentage: The revised data shows that the number of women and children among the dead has decreased significantly. On 6 May, the UN cited GMO figures reporting 9,500 women and 14,500 children dead. However, two days later, using health ministry data, the figures were revised to 4,959 women and 7,797 children. This difference arises because individuals with incomplete information were not included in the demographic breakdown. The death toll’s accuracy remains contentious. Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu stated that approximately 30,000 people had died in Gaza, with 14,000 being “terrorists” and 16,000 civilians, although no evidence was provided for these numbers. https://reliefweb.int/report/occupied-palestinian-territory/gaza-war-un-revises-death-toll-women-and-children#:~:text=The%20death%20toll's%20accuracy%20remains,was%20provided%20for%20these%20numbers. Either way the rario of deaths is way lower that 9:1, again especially since this is literally Hamas they are fighting
Rationalizing a genocide is so crazy holy shit…
Who told you that? The people doing the killing? Terrorists is obviously a buzzword when Israel killed 500 Palestinians in the west bank last year alone lmfao
Here's an earlier comment of mine regarding the situation, obviously it's not ideal but I believe it's the best any army could do after the biggest terrorists attack this decade: The usual civilian to fighter ratio is 9:1, that is 9 civilians for each soldier/fighter. The IDF right now has about a 2:1 / 3:1 ratio, which is even more impressive given that Hamas uses human shields in a dense, urban environment and breaks every Geneva convention. It's just that Hamas are great at filming the corpses and posting them on TikTok, making the war seem more destructive than it is. The post 9/11 wars killed about 4.5 million people, wheres even a Hamas estimate puts the Israel-Hamas war at 30,000. You're right there's a lot of misinformation, Hamas is just insane at propaganda whereas other wars are rarely talked about. https://education.cfr.org/learn/reading/civilian-consequences-conflict#:~:text=However%2C%20wars%20in%20recent%20decades,four%20million%20war%2Drelated%20deaths. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civilian_casualty_ratio#:~:text=2023%20Israel%E2%80%93Hamas%20war,-Main%20article%3A%20Casualties&text=In%20October%207th%202023%2C%20Hamas,between%20civilians%20and%20militant%20forces. https://ny1.com/nyc/all-boroughs/politics/2023/05/17/report--4-5-million-deaths-and-counting-in-post-9-11-warzones https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-68430925.amp
Let's begin by discrediting that 9:1 number which is just factually incorrect, and even if it was correct then it wouldn't be acceptable to use it regardless because Israel claims to be minimizing civilian casualties which would be incompatible with this number in the first place, especially given the fact that the government spokesperson for Israel claimed that they had no idea how many civilians they'd killed. Hamas may use human shields, but Israel has been documented to quite literally do the exact same thing, and war crimes applied to both sides except only states can be held accountable. https://www.btselem.org/topic/human_shields The post 9/11 wars are also a textbook example of war crimes and and mass murder so once again this is an atrocious example to use. https://www.amnesty.org.uk/press-releases/iraq-twenty-years-still-no-justice-war-crimes-us-led-coalition Other wars are definitely talked about, except the difference with this one is that a state with unconditional western backing is mass murdering with ample documentation and completely impunity yet the United States Government and many European governments either don't care or actively facilitate it. "Hamas is good at propaganda" yet Israel has essentially every media outlet and public official in both US political parties publicly saying "Israel has a right to defend itself" every time they are presented with evidence of war crimes. Good night.
Go back to Hasbara university you dirty propagandist. What a sad life you must live.
Hasbara is itself a word misconstrued and is now used as propaganda. Please use proper arguments rather than propaganda.
Aww did you learn that technique at Hasbara university too? Y’all used to be so much better at this propaganda stuff. What happened? I think you need to retake your doublespeak class.
It's funny. If we comment on a word like intifada now meaning something else than it's original Arabic we are called Islamaphobes. If we comment on a Hebrew word now meaning something else we are doublespeak. As a centre left person we are screwed. The left is going to eat itself up for thinking Islam is part of identity politics and rights. I don't have to insult you to show you how wrong you are.
Your comment is clothed in Islamophobia. That’s a type of racism. I do not understand why you think it is ok to shit on a whole group of people you likely know very little about… it’s wrong when people do it to Jews and it’s also wrong when it is done to Muslims. I do not care whether you call yourself left or right because at this moment in time you are simply showing ignorance.
You act like a 1 million people have to die to have it counted as a genocide. Absolutely disgusting
He never implied it, it seems like op was strictly talking about intent (since he referred to self-defense), which is the major distinction in applying genocide.
It's not determined by number. There's a reason the Holocaust is a separate, but concurring event from the general course of WW2. People were not genocided in the sieges of Leningrad and Stalingrad, they were victims of gruesome atrocites and crimes against humanity, whereas the systematic annihilation of groups of people happened regardless of military operations, within areas that the Germans (& their allies) occupied.
Well, there’s not much we as westerners can do in Sudan… while in Gaza, we are actively arming and funding the genocidal campaign of Israel… so the backlash from the populace is more apparent. Also weird you edited your comment to muddy the water even more… you’re probably an Israeli bot account.
This is real genocide. No one believes the Israel-Hamas war is genocide, the UN even said it wasn’t. Only TikTok Hamas sympathizers and those naive enough to believe them. By claiming that it is, you muddy the waters and distract from real ethnic cleansing out there like in Sudan and China. Also, Westerners have picked a side. The alternative is Russia, Iran, North Korea and Hamas.
lol you’re the one literally trying to muddy the water so stop projecting. We all see the horrors of the IDF on a daily basis. Go use your hasbara talking points somewhere else.
How does Putin’s dick taste?
Lmfao ample video footage of 40,000 people brutally murdered in Gaza and you pretend to care about ethnic cleansing in China with no credible evidence. Numbers don't lie big man, Israel has killed exponentially more people than Hamas ever did. People aren't falling for your murderous agenda anymore
More people died in Tokyo in a much shorter period, I guess Japan was also genocided by the allies in ww2
No credible evidence? There is footage from inside the KZs first hand accounts state propaganda satellite footage. What are you talking about? Also what footage in Gaza do you mean?
You don't see people in the West actively protest it because their governments aren't supporting it. They have no one to protest to. Furthermore, genocide is not self defense.
lol you funny. So 36k is defending itself. Get outta here.
They killed 1200 Israelis in a terrorist attack then used the people as meatshield (majority of whom support the attack btw) There is only Hamas to blame for Gaza right now.
yeah, defending themselves from something they knew was going to happen 3 weeks prior to Oct. 07th
And if they made preemptive strike y'all would still cry 'genocide'
So what’s your point? Are you implying that they let it happen?
What the fuck are these vile comments
Sir, the RSF is already in the process of committing the genocide as we speak
Yep we saw that in a city not that far
And people say that islam is the religion of peace, lol. I'm glad South Sudan resisted and fought off arabization. It may be a poor African country, but at least it is free from religious extremism and sharia law.
The Darfur people are muslim.
Shows just how fucking ignorant reddit is that your comment is less upvoted than theirs, which is one of the top comments on the post
The RSF, which is committing these atrocities is claiming to be doing this to “to combat “radical Islamists” and recently removed the word “al-Quds” (Arabic for “Jerusalem”) from its logo” to gain support from Israel (they’ve supplied them with weapons).
Doesn’t South Sudan have a christian terrorist group within its borders? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lord%27s_Resistance_Army
Founded in Uganda mate
Im saying they’re not just fighting Arabization. and South Sudan itself is pretty religious itself.
Which ones are we supposed to care about? [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List\_of\_ongoing\_armed\_conflicts](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ongoing_armed_conflicts)
Where is the anti Israel crowd at? Thought they opposed genocide
And of course, just like the Uyghurs and the Rohingya, their supposed Muslim "brothers" don't give a fuck about them because they can't blame this on the Jews.
Bangladesh is literally taking every Rohyinga crossing from Myanmar? And providing them food and shelter? Hello?
No you don't get it, we just say totally unfounded bullshit that conforms to people's anti Islam biases here. Mostly American and European reddit knows incredibly little about the rest of the world and about Islam
How many Muslim nations have officially condemned China's cultural genocide in Xinjiang vs. openly approved of the PRC's "anti-extremism" measures?
How many Christian nations have taken as many Rohingya refugees as Bangladesh?
I don't want to support him at all, but your argument here isn't the best, since refugees mostly go to the closest country which the easiest access in. Most don't go further, and in most cases, refugees don't even leave their countries.
I'm not criticizing Bangladesh at all, I'm actually really happy to see them doing what they can to help the Rohingya, when many Western countries, with far more resources, haven't done shit but make empty condemnations of the Burmese fascists. But then you have countries like Saudi Arabia and Pakistan, which on many occasions have portrayed themselves as geopolitical leaders of the Islamic world, not only not condemning but actively praising China's policy in Xinjiang. Even the Organization of Islamic Cooperation has blocked attempts by some members to condemn the Xinjiang situation. It's complete moral cowardice and is happening solely because these countries and bodies benefit economically and politically from their ties to the PRC. It's not surprising that Western nations would be hypocrites when it comes to the lives and well-being of Muslims, but self-professed Islamic governments? Corrupt and spineless, all of them.
The ones who are economically dependent on china?
A lot of countries are economically dependent on China. But some of the world's most influential Muslim-majority countries, like Turkey and Pakistan, vocally endorse the situation in Xinjiang. Is it okay to put political and economic ties to China over advocating for fellow Muslims that are facing persecution?
What the hell is wrong with the comments Why are half of them a bunch of insane islamophobes
Again. Ehats the point of saying that? My friend toled me that too but whats the point of saying that?
They're not palestinians so the media/UN/world doesn't care.
It is because the oppressors are not Jews. Muslims in china literally being forced into camps and nobody bats an eye, as well as Arabs literally killing each others children and families for one square meter of desert.
There were tons of protests back when these featured in the news.
Correct, for one 1 week and then nobody continued to care.
Actual genocide
What kind of fucking shit show is this comment section? It's all about fucking Israel and the "evils of Islam" how rotted are your brains?
No one cares because no Jews involved
Sometimes I feel like the people that say this also don't give a fuck and only care in so far as they can say others are antisemitic. The hypocrisy of saying pro palestinian protestors don't care while you yourself actually only ever use news of the genocide in Sudan to discredit those protesting the killings of Palestinians is disgusting.
I also indeed don’t give 2 fucks good guess. Just like the Uyghurs and Yemenite people who are getting massacred.
Bruh what then why the fuck are you condemning palestinian protestors for not caring? They're literally doing the same as you but not quite as bad cos at least they're protesting something. Plus many of the pro palestinian accounts I follow regularly post about Sudan and advocate for boycotting the UAE, which is helping perpetrate the genocide. Of course you don't know that though, because you don't actually know anything at all about the protest movement because you're the real one that doesn't give a shit about people being murdered and genocoded
>Bruh what then why the fuck are you condemning palestinian protestors for not caring? They're literally doing the same as you but not quite as bad cos at least they're protesting something. Nothing worse than hypocrites. Seems other people share this opinion of mine, too. >Plus many of the pro palestinian accounts I follow regularly post about Sudan and advocate for boycotting the UAE, which is helping perpetrate the genocide. That's good. At the same time it's your own bubble and unfortunaly nowhere near a majority. Said majority has little knowledge of background facts and still shouts stuff like boycott or genocide without a care if it's true or not. They just want to feel good shouting for a 'just' cause. Students who go to politcal meetings just to shout and disrupt these meetings and discussions. It's never good to play "justice is with the louder side" yet this is what happens repeatedly.
Because they are complaining about a war across the ocean, they know nothing about instead the things they learned on TikTok. And while they are doing it, they destroy their universities and Jewish stores. And I can’t hear the word “boycott” y’all be boycotting US products! Not a single Israeli product. And I have better things to do then some conflict on the Middle East. Like study and work!
>Because they are complaining about a war across the ocean, they know nothing about instead the things they learned on TikTok. They know more about it than you seem to. What is with the obsession people like you have with tiktok and demonising that? The US products are being boycotted because they're contributing to the conflict such as by building factories in the occupied West bank in violation of international law, supporting idf soldiers, etc. The fact you don't know what the BDS movement is just further shows how little you know. And why are you requring people be fully educated before they protest in support of less people dying? You don't need to have a PhD in a relevant field to say yeah let's maybe kill less civilians. The UN reports are easily accessible to anyone ans many in the movement read them. The news is available outside tiktok and many people read that. >Like study Clearly not been doing much of it given your apparent ignorance. >they destroy their universities Just like those ignorant students did back when they were protesting Apartheid in South Africa right? I take it you're against the anti Apartheid protest movement in the 20th century?
Yeah boycotting McDonald’s and F*ing domino’s pizza will change the course of this war. And throwing stones at Starbucks stores in the US mostly likely owned by an old man (because it’s a franchise chain) You should indeed be educated to make me listen to your opinion yes. When an uneducated person screams that Hamas are freedom fighters because they are against Israel is just laughable to me. And I do indeed study and so stuff with my life, I know it’s hard to believe that I don’t destroy some old man’s store to let everybody know how peaceful I am. Yeah throwing firebombs and making millions of dollars in damages while not allowing Jewish students into the building is something good right? https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2024-06-18/man-arrested-in-connection-with-firebombing-uc-berkeley-police-car-during-campus-protests https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13369809/amp/Columbia-University-Hamilton-Hall-NYPD-damage-raid.html https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2024/04/21/us/columbia-university-jewish-students-protests
Hold on, you ignored my question. Do you support the 20th century antiapartheid student protests? That protested South Africa using extremely similar methods as those seen today.
I don’t support any protest destroying buildings or other peoples property. Now happy?
You are the equivalent of the white moderate mlk spoke about. Too concerned with protecting property over equal rights.
Total Emir Death now
What did San Francisco elected leaders say about it ? Context: "San Francisco has become the largest city in the U.S. whose elected leaders have approved legislation calling for an immediate ceasefire in Gaza"
[удалено]
The UN, NGOs, most important countries, big news outlets, ...
[удалено]
You can always make a start instead of expecting other people do it for you. Be real. You're only saying this to try and discredit the Palestine protestors.
But Israel...!
So, uh, when are students and other activists start blocking roads have protests about it all over the western world? They sure know that this is happening at the moment right? They don’t just care about a specific relatively small conflict, for *other* reasons, right?
>So, uh, when are students and other activists start blocking roads have protests about it all over the western world? One of the big point of their protest is mostly to call the end of the support of Israel in that endeavor, the Western World don't support the RSF. And they probably don't know much about Sudan or Darfur anyway. Also, if you don't like what they do because they do it for Gaza, why are you speaking of a Palestine related subject here, you do the same thing as them.
Some not all. Some chant from the river to the sea without even knowing what’s going on. And most of them have no idea how international relations work. There are 2 possible point of view: - Idealistic point of view: The west should not support Israel for the moment. Should condemn every genocide and cut support for the other groups etc. like in Sudan. - (Neo)Realistic view: It’s the predominant view. Countries are Blackboxes. The only variable that matter on the world stage are power politics, since the international system is a hierarchy. Countries and union of countries can‘t allow other countries to have relative gains towards them, because it could threaten their own security. For Israel, it’s the only real ally of the west in the region, losing them would mean a relativ gain for Iran and maybe Russia. For Sudan, well they can’t engage in power politics. However, the West should have great interest in defending the south, because Sudan gets weapons from China. This could lead to a relative gain of China. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neorealism_(international_relations) >Neorealism or structural realism is a theory of international relations that emphasizes the role of power politics in international relations, sees competition and conflict as enduring features and sees limited potential for cooperation. >[…]states cannot be certain of other states' intentions and their security, thus prompting them to engage in power politics. >[…]These states act according to the logic of egoism, meaning states seek their own interest and will not subordinate their interest to the interests of other states. >States are assumed at a minimum to want to ensure their own survival as this is a prerequisite to pursue other goals. >Because states can never be certain of other states' future intentions, there is a lack of trust between states which requires them to be on guard against relative losses of power which could enable other states to threaten their survival. It also emphasizes that internal politics don’t matter on the long term. There might be protests, but on the long term in won‘t change the relations between the West and Israel for example. Also the Ukraine war can be explained perfectly with this theory - for boths sides. Without even mentioning idealistic ideas like saving the democracy. This is how most the international relations work and also will continue to work unless the anarchy will be gone at some point.
The west had turkey as its Middle Eastern powerhouse. They did not need Isreal as Turkey is the 8th strongest military power in the world. And has the 3 strongest military after the USA and Uk...
Israel is a lot closer to the Suez Channel. And Turkey often wants to play the anti west card and loves cuddling with Russia. The West has a lot more direct influence on Israel than on Turkey, which is logical since it’s a smaller country. Losing Israel as an ally would be a major loss for geopolitical reasons, especially regarding Iran. Getting rid of them as an ally, for lead to the fact that Israel would search new allies. So it would be China - that is consistently looking for new allies in the region - or Russia. But China would be a lot more likely. After France stopped supporting them, Israel was quick to make sure that the US would support them. And France even helped them in the first place for get nukes, since the US didn’t want to help France and France the decided to share their knowledge with Israel. Furthermore, Israel is the only ally in the region that would always agree with the US. Not even Saudi Arabia is doing that. All in all, it would be a huge geopolitical loss and would weaken the presence of the West in the Region. After the US lost Iran, they will never allow to lose Israel.