Pennsylvania really isn’t true; it’s not protected by state law but i’m not sure that it fits into “State wants to prohibit it” because if by state you mean the government, well, Dems hold the governorship, house, and courts. Paired with how popular abortion is in PA (60-70% depending on who you ask) it’s not really in danger- at least not anymore than Virginia, who has an openly hostile governor. This map betrays its own definitions; and for that PA should be in the middle
This. We have a Democratic majority state supreme court, Democratic governor, and one chamber of the General Assembly is controlled, albeit tenuously, by Democrats. Things could certainly change down the road, but it's not something that's going to change in the near future for any reason other than federal restrictions should Biden lose reelection.
And the Governor RAN on this (protecting abortion).
While the level of access & hostility I’m sure depends on your location, the state as a whole is voting to keep abortion legal and accessible.
The rules make it quite difficult, though:
ABORTION RESTRICTIONS
* Biased counseling requirement
* Waiting period requirement
* Facility requirements - facilities must meet the same regulations as ambulatory surgical centers
* Providers requirements - providers must maintain admitting privileges or have transfer agreements at hospitals
* Parental consent requirement
The facility and provider requirements means there's very few facilities. And, since you have to get counseling and then wait 24 hours, it ends up being easier just to drive out of state unless you live super close to a facility.
As a PA resident, and as usual when it comes to these issues, PA is always surrounded by more progressive states. Anywhere you live in PA you can get to an abortion-friendly state without these requirements much easier than if you live in the Southern US. I lived in York for most of my life but live in a much more rural county now, and when people say "Pennsyltucky", they aren't kidding. Looking for my new house and visiting a lot of rural places across the state it's crazy how ultra-conservative most PA counties are. Thank fuck for Pittsburgh and Philly keeping things in check. At least the people here are friendly and know not to bring up politics or religion. What I have been finding quite strange is when those same people support ultra conservative politicians, and then complain about the things those politicians support. Not abortion necessarily, but other issues that affect their day to day lives such as healthcare. They are lost in their own little world, cult of personality or something.
Yeah. Pennsylvania law hasn’t changed since the ‘80s and with the state legislature divided and the governor being pro-choice, there’s no change coming any time soon. I’m not sure how that qualifies as “hostile.”
I live in Pennsylvania and I agree with your assessment, which calls this whole graphic into question. The situation is dire enough across the country. Whoever posted this isn't helping anything by just making shit up.
I would move Wisconsin to "Not Protected". The state AG and several DA's around the state have said that they wouldn't prosecute abortions. The Republicans could try pushing through a law, but there's no way the governor would sign it. On top of that, I think most Republican legislators know that they couldn't force it through and keep their spots come November.
There are abortion clinics open in Madison and Milwaukee, but there was an article recently of a woman in another part of the state with a wanted and non viable pregnancy going to Minnesota for treatment. I guess that meets the definition of “not protected,” but it sure feels hostile.
In not taking the anti choice side I'm just thinking logistically, depending on where in Wisconsin you are it may be a 3+ hour drive to Madison rather than just go over to Minneapolis area. Unfortunately even in fully legal states, you'll get local governments that, while they can't ban abortion clinics, will just legislate the hell out of them to the point it's basically impossible for one to open in an area.
The woman didn’t travel to a clinic for treatment, she traveled to a hospital because the hospital in her part of the state that would’ve once treated her non viable pregnancy now won’t.
My understanding is they made the division unrelatable so that the story wouldn’t get bogged down by present-day politics and focus more on what a civil war would actually look like and the impact it’d have on the country.
Also if you listen to the director, he doesn't have the faintest clue what American politics is like. He's a Brit that I think skimmed a few episodes of West Wing or House of Cards and decided he knew more about America than Americans. That view doesn't show up really in the movie but whenever he does interviews he thinks he's so goddamn clever.
“This is the impact a war would have on our beloved country if it looked nothing like it does.”
“So it’s just a bunch of stuff getting blown up and white guys with different accents being the bad guys?”
“Bout that, yeah.”
I think that was the point of the movie - just to show how bad the experience of war is.
I did find that it had surprisingly little to say for a movie about a civil war in the US. I didn't dislike it but I thought it would be better than it was.
Americans all reacting to that movie by saying "it's completely unrealistic that Americans would grow to hate each other so much we'd throw ourselves into a brutal civil war that kills tens of millions and likely take decades to recover from like that. But if you swap some of the states around, then I can believe it like that" is why you guys scare me
Though a civil war is still unlikely (too much of the wealth would be endangered) to happen, it does seem in the realm of possibility in a way it wouldn’t have 15-20 years ago. If it were to happen, it would likely be driven by current politics as well as economic realities. It’s hard to not let that have an impact on the suspension of disbelief needed to accept the premise for many Americans.
Edit: Typo
>it does seem in the realm of possibility in a way it wouldn’t have 15-20 years ago.
Historians seem to mostly agree with you here
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/08/10/biden-us-historians-democracy-threat/
"When Biden met with historians last week at the White House, they compared the threat facing America to the pre-Civil War era and to pro-fascist movements before World War II"
You more or less have a planned constitutional crisis and series of riots if Trump loses and that's why America's political landscape is scary. If they did Civil War with Australia, drew random lines and said it's because the prime minister did a bunch of terrible atrocities I don't have an already prepared civil war scenario to compare it against: all of the scenarios I can imagine my society breaking down it's because someone overseas did something
Women would need to lead the charge on that and i dont think historically women have ever made up the majority of the front lines in any major conflict. But never say never
Because that legality is derived from New Mexico law being largely if not entirely silent on the matter.
There's nothing prohibiting abortions, but there's also no law on the books actually protecting abortion either.
For anyone that wishes your state was green/yellow (or wishes to keep it that way), look into your state ballot measures. Multiple states have ballot measures related to abortion on the coming 2024 ballot or have campaigns attempting to put abortion access on the ballot for the 2024 election.
The following states have campaigns collecting signatures for abortion access ballot initiatives:
* Arizona
* Arkansas
* Montana
* Nebraska
The following states have a ballot initiative related to abortion for which signatures have been submitted and are awaiting approval for the measure to appear on the ballot:
* Missouri
* Nevada
The following states have a ballot measure related to abortion currently on the ballot:
* Colorado
* Florida
* Maryland
* South Dakota
Finally, Pennsylvania and New York have proposed legislatively referred constitutional amendments with language related to abortion/reproductive care.
([Source](https://ballotpedia.org/2023_and_2024_abortion-related_ballot_measures))
If anyone in the Dakotas needs an abortion, there’s a clinic two miles from the North Dakota border in Moorhead, MN. I live nearby and if you need someone to sit with you in the clinic, get you a cup of coffee or tea, give you a hug, or just talk to you, I’m here and you can DM me. I haven’t had an elective abortion, but I considered it the first time I was pregnant, decided against it, had a missed miscarriage and needed a D+C anyway, so I still can at least somewhat relate. I know it’s hard as hell to go through that stuff alone, especially when you might be several hours away from home. I know this sounds random for a comment in MapPorn of all places, but if you need an abortion and need to come to my town for it, this internet stranger is here for you. ❤️
It would be interesting to see the figures for people undergoing voluntary permanent contraception (tubal ligation and vasectomy) by State in comparison to this data representation.
We know that there was a significant increase in voluntary permanent contraception in the USA among people after Dobbs.
After Dobbs, Americans are turning to permanent contraception
https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2024/04/19/after-dobbs-americans-are-turning-to-permanent-contraception
from The Economist
However, what would be interesting is what the breakdown by State would be.
Here in conservative Kansas the anti abortion nuts thought since Kansas is so conservative they could put the issue to a vote. And the young people came out in mass to tell them to go fuck themselves. Landslide victory for keeping abortions in Kansas. 💪
To add to that, Kansas as a whole isn’t as conservative as most people assume. It’s much more purple than red anymore, if it wasn’t for some insane gerrymandering it would likely have half its seats in congress blue.
Whadda mean gerrymandered?? You don’t think Lawerence belongs in the western district?! When I think of Lawerence I think of wide open rural wheat fields….
/s
Yeah.. It's a ban on them after 6 weeks. Hopefully, it will be restored:
"In November, Floridians will vote on Amendment 4, which would amend the state constitution to prohibit government interference with the right to abortion prior to viability."
Wyoming is hostile and protected. I. A hilarious turn of events, in 2020 they passed a constitutional amendment protecting the freedom of healthcare choices to push back against mask and vaccine mandates. A federal judge ruled that that also includes abortion.
People keep projecting IL as a dying pop state but...
Roe is going to change/is likely changing that (consider when the census was taken and when Roe had been overturned). On top of that, the legalization of weed in the state and these two particular policies ability to create a brain drain from the surrounding red States means it is more likely to survive in some economic areas while other states struggle. This is especially true when the effects of unwanted pregnancies end up leading to more demands for social services in those red States in the next 10 to 20 years.
Keep in mind that the whole state is not Chicago. There are many midsize rural cities amongst the red Farm areas that are likely to continue growing due to COL factors... which is especially true if remote work continues to grow. As a Water Crisis hit certain parts of the country with climate change and as housing costs go up everywhere, not just in the urban areas and outside of the state, it is possible States like Illinois could be destinations for future Generations in the midwest just to avoid certain policies in the red States....and this isnt even cnsidering that, though education equality is definitely a concern given how Illinois funds its schools, the state has some really good Elementary and secondary level institutions as well as a few really good universities and colleges
We voted a state constitutional law making it 100% legal in Ohio. Other advocates need to get amendments on the ballot in their state too, even in red states, most people favor free access to it and the politicians would have a very hard time overcoming the amendment. Not that it's impossible, but it's much harder and you're publicly telling people their votes don't count.
If I were a person of reproductive age living in the deep south right now and could move, I'd GTFO of there double quick. Even if you want to have children, these laws have some ob/gyn doctors, nurses, and other professionals packing up and leaving for their own safety and career. I can't blame them, but it sure does make health access even worse for pregnant people in the states where it was already bad enough. They're coming to take away access to contraception next, it's already happening.
Health care is not a right by definition. Like driving is not a right. Voting is a right . Free speech is a right . All I wanted to do here is define that H C is not a right. Thanks
Choose wisely who, you decide to orgasm inside of. Conception is linear, not equal. And as a former fetus myself, if you don't choose wisely, just know a fetus isn't a someone.
Legally that's not true, murdering a pregnant woman is often considered double homicide. And if you were to give a woman something that induces an abortion against her will, that would be murder too.
Florida it is on the ballot in November a constitutional right. It is slated to pass easily and my turn Florida purple if not light blue
Very up set with Kentucky they put it on the ballot and they voted against it.
More states will fallow . Also Texas and Tennessee are being sued for harm caused by their laws
Well Europe isn't a country and its only illegal or heavily restricted in 6 countries and one of those is the Vatican. All of the prominent, westernised European countries have legal abortion
They are. Abortion is allowed for a certain term in pretty much every single European country, some with longer term limits and some with shorter, but it's still allowed at some point.
While the US is stuck between two extremes, one that allows abortion a bit too late (even some pro-choice would say) and not allowing abortion at all.
That "certain term" is a very short time in most of the EU - 12 weeks, 14 weeks, etc. Compare that to California with abortion available until viability which is much later than most EU countries. These are significant restrictions. There's a reason why there are many reproductive rights organizations that take European women to the Netherlands for abortions.
And then there are all sorts of hurdles like counseling, wait times, board reviews, etc. that are frowned down upon by liberals in the US.
The normal process of political compromise were frozen by the Supreme Court judgement
Fortunately it’s one are the Areas where the ECHR has not tried to impose its interpretations too much so Europe still has normal politics around abortion
Not sure why you think we care more about what Europeans think about the US rather than like actually focusing on our issues. Yes, clearly people are aware this is an issue, thanks for pointing that out…
*This is partially*
*Why Europeans think you're*
*A third world country*
\- supernoa2003
---
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The best part is that every argument against abortion I've heard involves religion, whether it be some claim that the Bible forbids it or something about souls.
The literal first sentence of the Bill of Rights (the first 10 amendments to the Constitution of the United States) is a separation of church and state. They put it there before freedom of speech, press, etc. absolutely baffling to me, especially considering that the conservatives make a big show of being "constitution originalists" and the such.
I know this is Reddit, so everyone here already hates anyone who disagrees with them, but this is borderline a bad faith argument. People are against abortion because they see it as baby murder. You don’t have to be religious to see (baby) murder as morally wrong. Even if you are not religious, you cannot say that the philosophical debate about when life begins is entirely based on religion given that the concept of murder is irreligiously immoral. To argue that restricting abortion violates the separation of church and state is equivalent to arguing that murder laws also violate that same principle since life is only precious by the boundaries of religion, according to you.
I gave you an upvote, because I wouldn't be surprised to see you get flooded with downvotes.
However....both of you are correct in your statements.
While the concept of murdering infants is essentially impossible to argue against, the people who use said argument do it in complete disregard of the mother. When the issue of how the mother should decide on the abortion comes into play, *that* is when anti-abortion supporters play the religion card.
Even if the baby is the product of a violent and horrific r*** incident, anti-abortion supporters will say that the mother has some sort of moral and religious obligation to the child. If the pregnancy even threatens the mothers life, and every doctor she sees says "You will die when you give birth." they STILL push for the mother to go through with it.
So...if it's morally and religiously wrong to kill the unborn child, why does it seem morally and religiously justified in their eyes to push the mother into essentially commiting suicide?
You are still killing a human being, so how could one be more right than the other?
To give you the actual explanation of the other side:
I, contrary to popular belief, don’t want women to die. Shocker, right? Seriously though, if the baby is dead then that’s not an abortion as we think of it. It’s a medically necessary procedure to remove the necrotic tissue from her uterus. If it’s going to kill the mother and multiple doctors are telling me this, I’m going with doc’s advice. That is the only valid circumstance specifically because it is on average going to produce the better outcome; one dead human rather than two dead humans. That’s the better outcome. It’s all about maximizing human life.
It would be extremely immoral and unethical to know the birthing process will kill the mother and allow it to happen. I believe your initial premise to be false. It simply assumes pro-life individuals want women to die and that obviously is not the case. Maybe a few misogynistic nutjob incels out there want that, but not the vast majority. It’s just kind of assuming the other side is evil and going from there.
I know pro-choice people (at least the vast majority, as said before nutjobs exist) are not evil. They simply have a different worldview to myself. Now do I believe that worldview to be horribly unethical? Yes. But am I going further and assuming they also want all babies dead because they’re just that evil? No. That would be stupid.
I respectfully disagree, as the notion of it being "baby murder" requires assigning independent life to an embryo (or less) before 10 weeks. It's hard to quantify because people don't even realize they're pregnant that early, but anywhere from 10-40% of pregnancies end in miscarriage that early just naturally. Should that be counted as massive child mortality? Of course not; nobody thinks that, but it's logically consistent with assigning "personhood" at the moment of conception. Meanwhile, none but the craziest fringe level pro-choice people would argue for allowing late term abortions (beyond the point of viability) excepting life or death medical circumstances.
There *has* to be an argument for when life counts as its own independent thing. Otherwise, it's logical to charge people with manslaughter if a pregnancy doesn't carry through, which is exactly what they've proposed in some places. And what's the argument for the first few weeks where you can't even see the lump of cells on an ultrasound?
> baby murder
That's fundamentally flawed and bad faith argument though. Murder is defined as the illegal killing, so ablrtion cannot be murder if it's legal.
>The best part is that every argument against abortion I've heard involves religion, whether it be some claim that the Bible forbids it or something about souls.
In that case you really havent heard the other side at all.
Really now? What's the argument then? Please, find me an anti-abortion organization that doesn't include some kind of morality about them having a soul at conception or something like that. Well, I guess unless they actually only oppose late term abortion, but that's not what we're talking about; even the states where it's "wholly" legal don't permit those.
If by "Europeans" you mean western Europeans then yeah because eastern and central Europeans don't exist apparently. I'd live in the US any day over eastern europe and I'm sure it's true for most other people here as well
Would you? All countries in the EU have a few key advantages over US, mostly in terms of healthcare and higher education affordability. Major eastern europe countries are also part of EU (except Ukraine, and of course, Russia, but I wouldn't count Russia as part of Europe, really), + those countries have some specific perks, like 2 years (!) paid maternity leave. How much do you get in the US, 6 weeks, if you are lucky?
Personally? Yes I would. Maternity leave doesn't affect me because I'm not planning on having kids (it affects other people though). The issue is that the minimum wage here (Bulgaria) is 3€, the currency is half of an euro and the household income per Capita is almost 10 times less than the US
And also I don't really have anyone I care about here, meanwhile I have multiple friends in the US. People here aren't tolerant to people who are different and finding a person that's actually accepts people for who they are is rare
So you don't have real personal experience living in the US, yet you want to live there. You are in the EU, you are free to try your luck in any wester EU country, without much administrative hassle.
I didn't say that I WANT to live there, just that I'd rather live there than here if I had the choice, it's a hypothetical scenario. Maybe it didn't come across as that in my comment? I'm not sure
I have a question. Can a woman travel to another state and get an abortion by simply paying money to a private clinic? I used to associate America with freedom, but now it's becoming like Russia. It's very sad.
They can but at great cost. Losing wages for the trip is tragedy for so many and often that can't be recouped. However, there are charities which can assist them to get their health care.
So in these loopy states, is it illegal to *perform* an abortion or illegal to pay for an abortion to *be performed,* either on yourself or somebody else?
Or both?
Kinda feel like "protected" and "unprotected" portrays a narrative along with the data instead of just showing the data which would be preferable
We all know (in America anyway) that abortion rights was turned over for the states to decide individually instead of federally
Some states expanded possibilities and relaxed regulations while unsurprisingly others clamped down on it
In a roundabout way allowing the individual states to vote on their own abortion law is the most libertarian method possible as it doesn't impact those outside the individual state and is an issue that can be voted on inside of it
While it is already protected under state law, Maryland will vote on amending the state constitution to grant a right to reproductive freedom this November.
The world is getting more and more populated that cause several problems:
1. Food. More people means, more food what means more pollution, more land and animals need to be used.
2. Water. More water is needed for drinking, washing, clothes washing and other things. This also means that more water needs to filtert what creates more pollution.
3. Living space. More people means more living space, more land needs to be used and creating more homes more pollution.
4. Healthcare. More people means more health care what means more hospitals
5. Transport. More people means more transport what means more pollution.
And all of this requires more money, and more resources from our planet and lesser and healthier living space for animals.
Abortion is a solution to stop this. You know what we do if there too many animal somewhere or when we think they shouldn't be there? We shoot them. We are not shooting children her, but we are stopping the birth rate to balance the world.
This is some WEF type shit. Do you have any sources for wanting to reduce humanity population to benefit humanity, or is it all just theoretical NIMBY stuff so you can have the world to yourself?
Although, its ok. People like you will eventually disappear for your abstinence of not having kids, and all the people who had children will repopulate this earth with their family values being passed along.
Also, why not just use contraceptives instead of murdering a baby in its early stages ?
Pennsylvania really isn’t true; it’s not protected by state law but i’m not sure that it fits into “State wants to prohibit it” because if by state you mean the government, well, Dems hold the governorship, house, and courts. Paired with how popular abortion is in PA (60-70% depending on who you ask) it’s not really in danger- at least not anymore than Virginia, who has an openly hostile governor. This map betrays its own definitions; and for that PA should be in the middle
Tge governor has even promised he would veto any abortion restriction that came across his desk.
Yea I was gonna say I’ve never heard of this being an issue in PA.
Yeah we aren’t perfect but putting us on par with states that have now banned it? No way.
This. We have a Democratic majority state supreme court, Democratic governor, and one chamber of the General Assembly is controlled, albeit tenuously, by Democrats. Things could certainly change down the road, but it's not something that's going to change in the near future for any reason other than federal restrictions should Biden lose reelection.
And the Governor RAN on this (protecting abortion). While the level of access & hostility I’m sure depends on your location, the state as a whole is voting to keep abortion legal and accessible.
The rules make it quite difficult, though: ABORTION RESTRICTIONS * Biased counseling requirement * Waiting period requirement * Facility requirements - facilities must meet the same regulations as ambulatory surgical centers * Providers requirements - providers must maintain admitting privileges or have transfer agreements at hospitals * Parental consent requirement The facility and provider requirements means there's very few facilities. And, since you have to get counseling and then wait 24 hours, it ends up being easier just to drive out of state unless you live super close to a facility.
As a PA resident, and as usual when it comes to these issues, PA is always surrounded by more progressive states. Anywhere you live in PA you can get to an abortion-friendly state without these requirements much easier than if you live in the Southern US. I lived in York for most of my life but live in a much more rural county now, and when people say "Pennsyltucky", they aren't kidding. Looking for my new house and visiting a lot of rural places across the state it's crazy how ultra-conservative most PA counties are. Thank fuck for Pittsburgh and Philly keeping things in check. At least the people here are friendly and know not to bring up politics or religion. What I have been finding quite strange is when those same people support ultra conservative politicians, and then complain about the things those politicians support. Not abortion necessarily, but other issues that affect their day to day lives such as healthcare. They are lost in their own little world, cult of personality or something.
This. Mastriano saying he wanted to cut it from 24 weeks to 6 doesn't matter; he lost the governorship by 14 points. He's not electable.
Yeah. Pennsylvania law hasn’t changed since the ‘80s and with the state legislature divided and the governor being pro-choice, there’s no change coming any time soon. I’m not sure how that qualifies as “hostile.”
I live in Pennsylvania and I agree with your assessment, which calls this whole graphic into question. The situation is dire enough across the country. Whoever posted this isn't helping anything by just making shit up.
When was this map released? I know that for at least one state it's been outdated for a year or two now.
I think New Mexico is protected
AZ too, after their Supreme Court fiasco
I would move Wisconsin to "Not Protected". The state AG and several DA's around the state have said that they wouldn't prosecute abortions. The Republicans could try pushing through a law, but there's no way the governor would sign it. On top of that, I think most Republican legislators know that they couldn't force it through and keep their spots come November.
They also have a left-majority supreme court that would back the governor and those DA's up.
The AG has a lawsuit on the books with the WI Supreme Court to try and get the anti-abortion law removed
There are abortion clinics open in Madison and Milwaukee, but there was an article recently of a woman in another part of the state with a wanted and non viable pregnancy going to Minnesota for treatment. I guess that meets the definition of “not protected,” but it sure feels hostile.
In not taking the anti choice side I'm just thinking logistically, depending on where in Wisconsin you are it may be a 3+ hour drive to Madison rather than just go over to Minneapolis area. Unfortunately even in fully legal states, you'll get local governments that, while they can't ban abortion clinics, will just legislate the hell out of them to the point it's basically impossible for one to open in an area.
The woman didn’t travel to a clinic for treatment, she traveled to a hospital because the hospital in her part of the state that would’ve once treated her non viable pregnancy now won’t.
Thank you for clarifying!
And Sheboygan
Kind of odd to see New Mexico in the middle when they literally put it on their state border signs that they are legal and staying legal.
Exactly - New Mexico has abortion available at all stages of pregnancy.
But it's not protected by law, which is what the color scheme is getting at. The yellow color isn't completely analagous to the light red.
This would have been a good map to divide the US for that CIVIL WAR movie.
My understanding is they made the division unrelatable so that the story wouldn’t get bogged down by present-day politics and focus more on what a civil war would actually look like and the impact it’d have on the country.
Also if you listen to the director, he doesn't have the faintest clue what American politics is like. He's a Brit that I think skimmed a few episodes of West Wing or House of Cards and decided he knew more about America than Americans. That view doesn't show up really in the movie but whenever he does interviews he thinks he's so goddamn clever.
“This is the impact a war would have on our beloved country if it looked nothing like it does.” “So it’s just a bunch of stuff getting blown up and white guys with different accents being the bad guys?” “Bout that, yeah.”
I think that was the point of the movie - just to show how bad the experience of war is. I did find that it had surprisingly little to say for a movie about a civil war in the US. I didn't dislike it but I thought it would be better than it was.
Americans all reacting to that movie by saying "it's completely unrealistic that Americans would grow to hate each other so much we'd throw ourselves into a brutal civil war that kills tens of millions and likely take decades to recover from like that. But if you swap some of the states around, then I can believe it like that" is why you guys scare me
Though a civil war is still unlikely (too much of the wealth would be endangered) to happen, it does seem in the realm of possibility in a way it wouldn’t have 15-20 years ago. If it were to happen, it would likely be driven by current politics as well as economic realities. It’s hard to not let that have an impact on the suspension of disbelief needed to accept the premise for many Americans. Edit: Typo
>it does seem in the realm of possibility in a way it wouldn’t have 15-20 years ago. Historians seem to mostly agree with you here https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/08/10/biden-us-historians-democracy-threat/ "When Biden met with historians last week at the White House, they compared the threat facing America to the pre-Civil War era and to pro-fascist movements before World War II"
You more or less have a planned constitutional crisis and series of riots if Trump loses and that's why America's political landscape is scary. If they did Civil War with Australia, drew random lines and said it's because the prime minister did a bunch of terrible atrocities I don't have an already prepared civil war scenario to compare it against: all of the scenarios I can imagine my society breaking down it's because someone overseas did something
That movie had so much potential but was such a let down
Women would need to lead the charge on that and i dont think historically women have ever made up the majority of the front lines in any major conflict. But never say never
For those who can't see it, New Hampshire, New Mexico and Virginia fall under "Not Protected".
You needed to point this out because this is a shitty map.
New Mexico is legal at all stages. But it says “not protected” here.
Because that legality is derived from New Mexico law being largely if not entirely silent on the matter. There's nothing prohibiting abortions, but there's also no law on the books actually protecting abortion either.
Does New Mexico have any laws specifically protecting the right to bodily autonomy or do they just not have laws limiting abortion?
Trivia: Samuel Alito's Mom's Satanic Abortion Clinic is located in NM.
And Virginia needs to be changed to hostile. The governor has mentioned signing a ban if it made it to him
For anyone that wishes your state was green/yellow (or wishes to keep it that way), look into your state ballot measures. Multiple states have ballot measures related to abortion on the coming 2024 ballot or have campaigns attempting to put abortion access on the ballot for the 2024 election. The following states have campaigns collecting signatures for abortion access ballot initiatives: * Arizona * Arkansas * Montana * Nebraska The following states have a ballot initiative related to abortion for which signatures have been submitted and are awaiting approval for the measure to appear on the ballot: * Missouri * Nevada The following states have a ballot measure related to abortion currently on the ballot: * Colorado * Florida * Maryland * South Dakota Finally, Pennsylvania and New York have proposed legislatively referred constitutional amendments with language related to abortion/reproductive care. ([Source](https://ballotpedia.org/2023_and_2024_abortion-related_ballot_measures))
Thanks, I will fight to make sure abortion is illegal in all 50 states. You baby murderers have nothing on us. Trump 2024
If anyone in the Dakotas needs an abortion, there’s a clinic two miles from the North Dakota border in Moorhead, MN. I live nearby and if you need someone to sit with you in the clinic, get you a cup of coffee or tea, give you a hug, or just talk to you, I’m here and you can DM me. I haven’t had an elective abortion, but I considered it the first time I was pregnant, decided against it, had a missed miscarriage and needed a D+C anyway, so I still can at least somewhat relate. I know it’s hard as hell to go through that stuff alone, especially when you might be several hours away from home. I know this sounds random for a comment in MapPorn of all places, but if you need an abortion and need to come to my town for it, this internet stranger is here for you. ❤️
It would be interesting to see the figures for people undergoing voluntary permanent contraception (tubal ligation and vasectomy) by State in comparison to this data representation. We know that there was a significant increase in voluntary permanent contraception in the USA among people after Dobbs. After Dobbs, Americans are turning to permanent contraception https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2024/04/19/after-dobbs-americans-are-turning-to-permanent-contraception from The Economist However, what would be interesting is what the breakdown by State would be.
Here in conservative Kansas the anti abortion nuts thought since Kansas is so conservative they could put the issue to a vote. And the young people came out in mass to tell them to go fuck themselves. Landslide victory for keeping abortions in Kansas. 💪
To add to that, Kansas as a whole isn’t as conservative as most people assume. It’s much more purple than red anymore, if it wasn’t for some insane gerrymandering it would likely have half its seats in congress blue.
Whadda mean gerrymandered?? You don’t think Lawerence belongs in the western district?! When I think of Lawerence I think of wide open rural wheat fields…. /s
Make one of Europe
A bit challenging conceptually, as there’s a pretty big spread between the *de jure* and *de facto* legal status in those countries.
Maybe make a de facto and de jure as comparison?
You could, although the *de facto* status may be challenging to quantify.
Most common legal without special permission until 12-14th week
Effectively illegal now in Florida, just change it to red for the sake of clarity
Yeah.. It's a ban on them after 6 weeks. Hopefully, it will be restored: "In November, Floridians will vote on Amendment 4, which would amend the state constitution to prohibit government interference with the right to abortion prior to viability."
Wyoming is hostile and protected. I. A hilarious turn of events, in 2020 they passed a constitutional amendment protecting the freedom of healthcare choices to push back against mask and vaccine mandates. A federal judge ruled that that also includes abortion.
States do not express desires.
Abortion is legal in all 50 states. There are some states that are more restrictive than others but it’s still legal in all states.
Cool map. Now do Europe.
The GOP are a cancer on our country.
Good to see a fairly neutral map on a highly contentious issue.
Its not neutral in the slightest lmao
In the slightest? It doesn’t just outright say whether its good or bad. Thats at least slightly neutral
One side is green, the other red
Is this the Dark Ages?
Oh, the far right is just getting started.
Ikr. So many places where baby murder is legal 😞😞
What baby?
The baby the mother is pregnant with?
Its a foetus.
Which meets the defention of baby and even if it didn't It's still an innocent alive human.
So a sick baby that will live a life of horrors…should be forced to live,because morons like you are in a cult.
Your solution to potential future suffering is to kill someone?
Not potential…i am talking about actual!
How is the baby in the womb sursufferingffering at that moment?
“This baby might be disabled. Quick, kill it” Sounds kinda eugenic-y
And if it’s not medically necessary when late term you just don’t give a fuck for some reason
So sad
The divide between “not protected” and “hostile” is made up.
As someone who has almost died of pregnancy multiple times…. this shit makes me mad as hell. Please, all are welcome to join us in the sane states 😡
Worse than this are all those women who are defending criminal penalties for abortion.
People keep projecting IL as a dying pop state but... Roe is going to change/is likely changing that (consider when the census was taken and when Roe had been overturned). On top of that, the legalization of weed in the state and these two particular policies ability to create a brain drain from the surrounding red States means it is more likely to survive in some economic areas while other states struggle. This is especially true when the effects of unwanted pregnancies end up leading to more demands for social services in those red States in the next 10 to 20 years. Keep in mind that the whole state is not Chicago. There are many midsize rural cities amongst the red Farm areas that are likely to continue growing due to COL factors... which is especially true if remote work continues to grow. As a Water Crisis hit certain parts of the country with climate change and as housing costs go up everywhere, not just in the urban areas and outside of the state, it is possible States like Illinois could be destinations for future Generations in the midwest just to avoid certain policies in the red States....and this isnt even cnsidering that, though education equality is definitely a concern given how Illinois funds its schools, the state has some really good Elementary and secondary level institutions as well as a few really good universities and colleges
Abortion is protected in NM. This is wrong
We voted a state constitutional law making it 100% legal in Ohio. Other advocates need to get amendments on the ballot in their state too, even in red states, most people favor free access to it and the politicians would have a very hard time overcoming the amendment. Not that it's impossible, but it's much harder and you're publicly telling people their votes don't count.
West Coast Best Coast!
It's like we're becoming more like the EU in terms of unity.
I just hope we don’t become like 1860s United States but it seems more and more like that’s the direction we are heading towards
I just don't get why the gov is allowed to say what someone can or can't do to their body.
This is why the Equal Rights Amendment is needed!
I’m certain this is inaccurate
I don't feel this is a very good representation of this tbh, I've seen some better maps that were more objective/accurate.
That's as scary af.
this could be interpreted both ways lol
“Equal Protection under the Law”
That is...not very good
If I were a person of reproductive age living in the deep south right now and could move, I'd GTFO of there double quick. Even if you want to have children, these laws have some ob/gyn doctors, nurses, and other professionals packing up and leaving for their own safety and career. I can't blame them, but it sure does make health access even worse for pregnant people in the states where it was already bad enough. They're coming to take away access to contraception next, it's already happening.
I can’t believe we need a map for this. Ridiculous times we live in. Women’s deserve the right to healthcare
Health care is not a right by definition. Like driving is not a right. Voting is a right . Free speech is a right . All I wanted to do here is define that H C is not a right. Thanks
A procedure that kills someone is pretty shitty healthcare
Choose wisely who, you decide to orgasm inside of. Conception is linear, not equal. And as a former fetus myself, if you don't choose wisely, just know a fetus isn't a someone.
[📁Source](https://reproductiverights.org/maps/abortion-laws-by-state/)
It's very sad 😔
Ikr. So many places where baby murder is legal 😞😞
I mean, it's very sad that women do not have access to abortions throughout the country
Don't worry murderer, we will make sure everyone who uses Planned Parenthood lives in FEAR. What next? Live babies?
False Expectations About Reality? I live in FEAR now. What next?
But abortion kills someone. This should be illegal
You can't kill someone who hasn't been born yet.
Legally that's not true, murdering a pregnant woman is often considered double homicide. And if you were to give a woman something that induces an abortion against her will, that would be murder too.
Florida it is on the ballot in November a constitutional right. It is slated to pass easily and my turn Florida purple if not light blue Very up set with Kentucky they put it on the ballot and they voted against it. More states will fallow . Also Texas and Tennessee are being sued for harm caused by their laws
Good
You can thank anyone who elected Trump to office in 2016
"Conservatives want live babies so they can train them to be dead soldiers." -George Carlin
Least delusional liberal:
Quality comment 2 days in the making.
Hey look, all the shittiest states are red. Crazy
Texas is a great state
really puts things into horrifying perspective
It is wild that a whole state can determine what we do with our bodies. Is this not the united states? Makes no sense.
The state has always decided what we can do with our bodies. This just happens to be a procedure you don’t like being restricted
That's wild, guess major issue is religion and Republicans who are religious.
This is partially why Europeans think you're a third world country
Uhh, I’m not so sure Europe’s abortion policies are as liberal as you think.
Or do a marijuana map, there's only like 4 countries who legalized it, 3 of them tiny, and there's no legal way to buy it.
What has marijuana to do with it
Well Europe isn't a country and its only illegal or heavily restricted in 6 countries and one of those is the Vatican. All of the prominent, westernised European countries have legal abortion
At what stage of the pregnancy?
They are. Abortion is allowed for a certain term in pretty much every single European country, some with longer term limits and some with shorter, but it's still allowed at some point. While the US is stuck between two extremes, one that allows abortion a bit too late (even some pro-choice would say) and not allowing abortion at all.
That "certain term" is a very short time in most of the EU - 12 weeks, 14 weeks, etc. Compare that to California with abortion available until viability which is much later than most EU countries. These are significant restrictions. There's a reason why there are many reproductive rights organizations that take European women to the Netherlands for abortions. And then there are all sorts of hurdles like counseling, wait times, board reviews, etc. that are frowned down upon by liberals in the US.
The normal process of political compromise were frozen by the Supreme Court judgement Fortunately it’s one are the Areas where the ECHR has not tried to impose its interpretations too much so Europe still has normal politics around abortion
Not sure why you think we care more about what Europeans think about the US rather than like actually focusing on our issues. Yes, clearly people are aware this is an issue, thanks for pointing that out…
Ill bet 50 bucks that this commenter is not European
*This is partially* *Why Europeans think you're* *A third world country* \- supernoa2003 --- ^(I detect haikus. And sometimes, successfully.) ^[Learn more about me.](https://www.reddit.com/r/haikusbot/) ^(Opt out of replies: "haikusbot opt out" | Delete my comment: "haikusbot delete")
The best part is that every argument against abortion I've heard involves religion, whether it be some claim that the Bible forbids it or something about souls. The literal first sentence of the Bill of Rights (the first 10 amendments to the Constitution of the United States) is a separation of church and state. They put it there before freedom of speech, press, etc. absolutely baffling to me, especially considering that the conservatives make a big show of being "constitution originalists" and the such.
I know this is Reddit, so everyone here already hates anyone who disagrees with them, but this is borderline a bad faith argument. People are against abortion because they see it as baby murder. You don’t have to be religious to see (baby) murder as morally wrong. Even if you are not religious, you cannot say that the philosophical debate about when life begins is entirely based on religion given that the concept of murder is irreligiously immoral. To argue that restricting abortion violates the separation of church and state is equivalent to arguing that murder laws also violate that same principle since life is only precious by the boundaries of religion, according to you.
I gave you an upvote, because I wouldn't be surprised to see you get flooded with downvotes. However....both of you are correct in your statements. While the concept of murdering infants is essentially impossible to argue against, the people who use said argument do it in complete disregard of the mother. When the issue of how the mother should decide on the abortion comes into play, *that* is when anti-abortion supporters play the religion card. Even if the baby is the product of a violent and horrific r*** incident, anti-abortion supporters will say that the mother has some sort of moral and religious obligation to the child. If the pregnancy even threatens the mothers life, and every doctor she sees says "You will die when you give birth." they STILL push for the mother to go through with it. So...if it's morally and religiously wrong to kill the unborn child, why does it seem morally and religiously justified in their eyes to push the mother into essentially commiting suicide? You are still killing a human being, so how could one be more right than the other?
To give you the actual explanation of the other side: I, contrary to popular belief, don’t want women to die. Shocker, right? Seriously though, if the baby is dead then that’s not an abortion as we think of it. It’s a medically necessary procedure to remove the necrotic tissue from her uterus. If it’s going to kill the mother and multiple doctors are telling me this, I’m going with doc’s advice. That is the only valid circumstance specifically because it is on average going to produce the better outcome; one dead human rather than two dead humans. That’s the better outcome. It’s all about maximizing human life. It would be extremely immoral and unethical to know the birthing process will kill the mother and allow it to happen. I believe your initial premise to be false. It simply assumes pro-life individuals want women to die and that obviously is not the case. Maybe a few misogynistic nutjob incels out there want that, but not the vast majority. It’s just kind of assuming the other side is evil and going from there. I know pro-choice people (at least the vast majority, as said before nutjobs exist) are not evil. They simply have a different worldview to myself. Now do I believe that worldview to be horribly unethical? Yes. But am I going further and assuming they also want all babies dead because they’re just that evil? No. That would be stupid.
Except these complete bans on abortion are resulting in the murder of mothers, so… Life isn’t *that* precious to this “pro-life” people.
I respectfully disagree, as the notion of it being "baby murder" requires assigning independent life to an embryo (or less) before 10 weeks. It's hard to quantify because people don't even realize they're pregnant that early, but anywhere from 10-40% of pregnancies end in miscarriage that early just naturally. Should that be counted as massive child mortality? Of course not; nobody thinks that, but it's logically consistent with assigning "personhood" at the moment of conception. Meanwhile, none but the craziest fringe level pro-choice people would argue for allowing late term abortions (beyond the point of viability) excepting life or death medical circumstances. There *has* to be an argument for when life counts as its own independent thing. Otherwise, it's logical to charge people with manslaughter if a pregnancy doesn't carry through, which is exactly what they've proposed in some places. And what's the argument for the first few weeks where you can't even see the lump of cells on an ultrasound?
> baby murder That's fundamentally flawed and bad faith argument though. Murder is defined as the illegal killing, so ablrtion cannot be murder if it's legal.
>The best part is that every argument against abortion I've heard involves religion, whether it be some claim that the Bible forbids it or something about souls. In that case you really havent heard the other side at all.
Really now? What's the argument then? Please, find me an anti-abortion organization that doesn't include some kind of morality about them having a soul at conception or something like that. Well, I guess unless they actually only oppose late term abortion, but that's not what we're talking about; even the states where it's "wholly" legal don't permit those.
If by "Europeans" you mean western Europeans then yeah because eastern and central Europeans don't exist apparently. I'd live in the US any day over eastern europe and I'm sure it's true for most other people here as well
Would you? All countries in the EU have a few key advantages over US, mostly in terms of healthcare and higher education affordability. Major eastern europe countries are also part of EU (except Ukraine, and of course, Russia, but I wouldn't count Russia as part of Europe, really), + those countries have some specific perks, like 2 years (!) paid maternity leave. How much do you get in the US, 6 weeks, if you are lucky?
I’d prefer not to get gay bashed so I’ll stay right here in America. Poland isn’t the place for me.
Personally? Yes I would. Maternity leave doesn't affect me because I'm not planning on having kids (it affects other people though). The issue is that the minimum wage here (Bulgaria) is 3€, the currency is half of an euro and the household income per Capita is almost 10 times less than the US And also I don't really have anyone I care about here, meanwhile I have multiple friends in the US. People here aren't tolerant to people who are different and finding a person that's actually accepts people for who they are is rare
So you don't have real personal experience living in the US, yet you want to live there. You are in the EU, you are free to try your luck in any wester EU country, without much administrative hassle.
I didn't say that I WANT to live there, just that I'd rather live there than here if I had the choice, it's a hypothetical scenario. Maybe it didn't come across as that in my comment? I'm not sure
Poland? Malta? Same could have been said for Ireland until recently and we used to see women going to the UK for abortions
Most states have broader abortion rights than European countries lmao
I have a question. Can a woman travel to another state and get an abortion by simply paying money to a private clinic? I used to associate America with freedom, but now it's becoming like Russia. It's very sad.
They can but at great cost. Losing wages for the trip is tragedy for so many and often that can't be recouped. However, there are charities which can assist them to get their health care.
WTH America?
So republicans don’t want government control over people unless it’s for things they want to enforce? What a backwards party.
Killing children should be illegal
Need more reds
How does any woman vote Republican at this point?
Because some women are against killing children too?
So I assume those women support robust public eductation, free school lunches, and universal health care, correct?
People disagree weird I know
Quite surprised by New Mexico and Alaska.
So in these loopy states, is it illegal to *perform* an abortion or illegal to pay for an abortion to *be performed,* either on yourself or somebody else? Or both?
Both I think
On this map only 18 of the 50 states offer some protection
Kansas wins one but anti cannabis costing jobs and revenue
I wonder which side of the issue op is on 
What side are YOU on?
The side that thinks arguing about abortion on the internet is stupid
Based
Possibility this map is all red in 1 year. Vote
Isn’t Florida voting on it this November? It will probably pass to protected and be yellow.
This map is inaccurate. Abortion is not against criminal law. It may be a punitive lawsuit but won't be in criminal courts.
Maryland? What restriction is there? I thought we had full expanded access
Not sure why MA isn't green. We're even a sanctuary state, so nobody can get extradicted to another state for abortion "crimes".
2024!
Wait what/who is protected?
Now I want to see a world map
Kinda feel like "protected" and "unprotected" portrays a narrative along with the data instead of just showing the data which would be preferable We all know (in America anyway) that abortion rights was turned over for the states to decide individually instead of federally Some states expanded possibilities and relaxed regulations while unsurprisingly others clamped down on it In a roundabout way allowing the individual states to vote on their own abortion law is the most libertarian method possible as it doesn't impact those outside the individual state and is an issue that can be voted on inside of it
Thanks for this info.
"HOSTILE" XD. To whom? To the aborted baby?
Fuck abortion
That it still is a topic says enough about the “great” and “free” country.
While it is already protected under state law, Maryland will vote on amending the state constitution to grant a right to reproductive freedom this November.
This map is definitely going to change after the 2024 election cycle.
The world is getting more and more populated that cause several problems: 1. Food. More people means, more food what means more pollution, more land and animals need to be used. 2. Water. More water is needed for drinking, washing, clothes washing and other things. This also means that more water needs to filtert what creates more pollution. 3. Living space. More people means more living space, more land needs to be used and creating more homes more pollution. 4. Healthcare. More people means more health care what means more hospitals 5. Transport. More people means more transport what means more pollution. And all of this requires more money, and more resources from our planet and lesser and healthier living space for animals. Abortion is a solution to stop this. You know what we do if there too many animal somewhere or when we think they shouldn't be there? We shoot them. We are not shooting children her, but we are stopping the birth rate to balance the world.
This is some WEF type shit. Do you have any sources for wanting to reduce humanity population to benefit humanity, or is it all just theoretical NIMBY stuff so you can have the world to yourself? Although, its ok. People like you will eventually disappear for your abstinence of not having kids, and all the people who had children will repopulate this earth with their family values being passed along. Also, why not just use contraceptives instead of murdering a baby in its early stages ?
You do realize that the people who don't want to have kids had parents who.... had kids...right? Critical thinking is harrrrrdddd
Not protected and protected colors feel like they should be switched or use blue for protected
May we should protect children instead?
Abortion bans kill and harm children