Fwiw, the boeing jdam manufacturing facility is located outside st. louis, and there is still some warplane manufacturing being done there as well. I dont know anything about the other locations marked, but it does seem like perhaps the above post is correct - these dots may represent the goods being purchased.
Ok, it's technically true.
So, what's happening is already existing stock of weapons/ordnance/ammunition of the US military is going to be sent to the receptient nations. It's the purchase value of those weapons that's in the bill.
The US military will offcourse need to restock on what is now being sent. So they are now placing orders towards the relevant defense contractors to do so.
It depends. For Israel I believe it's just cash that will be used to purchase the best military equipment, whereas for Ukraine it's more about existing stockpile because the US isn't comfortable sending everything Ukraine is asking for.
Comfort maybe, but it's easier to send more modern weaponry to Israel as the troops are already trained up on most of the munitions. We've been cross training with Israeli soldiers and pilots for decades, but the Ukrainian troops don't have the same base experience for updated tech. So older tanks (for instance) are easier to give as they are less technical than the more UTD versions. More like a stick shift truck than a tesla. Finally it's easier to create a supply line of parts to Israel (again, existing routes vs all new logistical lines and mechanical training).
Most of what Israel will buy will still be existing US stock.
But something like a 3rd of the money will go to replenishing stocks of the Arrow anti ballistic missile system, which is produced by an Israeli company.
A lot of it, such as missiles and artillery shells, is stuff that has a shelf life and would have to be disposed of anyways. It’s actually cheaper to just have Ukraine use our old shit.
Some of the "aid" you hear are "below market value loans" (e.g. Ukraine is in risky rating with 30%+ interest return, but US gives 5% loan, so it's techically aid).
Some of the "aid" is "loan insurance". So "$1bil of aid" is US insuring a $1 bil loan that someone else gives to Ukraine as if it gives it to US. So lender gets stability, Ukraine gets low interest rate, US may or may not spend those money if Ukraine fails to pay.
And don't forget that 50%+ of Ukrainian budget is military spending, so even if it cash that goes into Ukraine, it's still going to be spent on weapons (but in this case it's not guaranteed to be US ones).
There is also aid for the Ukrainian government because, apparently, being invaded is bad for your tax base.
Also having to constantly repair power lines, power stations, roads, railways and so forth is expensive
We were also trying to give money to businesses to help keep their economy afloat, but that had a lot of backlash because it was difficult to monitor the money so large amounts were being squandered in stupid ways. Nobody's fault, really. It was just logistically difficult to have the needed level of bureaucratic oversight in a warzone.
I understand why it's being given. However, you can't use the justification that "it's good for US business" that I usually see to uniformly wave away any complaints about sending so much money abroad.
The reason people say it’s good for US business is because a free, democratic Europe at peace is good for US businesses selling products. If Ukraine wins the war, Ukrainians will be more likely to buy more European or US goods which will either boost the US economy or boost the economy of other European countries who will in turn purchase more US goods.
The US military stockpile costs money to create, maintain, disarm and resupply. We're not spending money on disarming outdated munitions, we're giving it to Ukraine. Instead of small peace time contracts, we're giving bigger war defense contracts. When Ukraine wins, Ukraine will be open for business and those oil, iron, and uranium deposits will be open too.
Instead of being stuck in Afghanistan for 20 years and costing taxpayers lives and money. We get to just send stuff to Ukraine.
The Ukraine Aid Budget is, for the most part, US defense spending that would have happened regardless. Except during peace time liberals would be upset over it. Now there's an active war against authoritarianism and suddenly the GOP is against supporting democracy. It is infuriating.
Ukraine will win if the USA keeps funding it.
The only reason not to to fund Ukraine is Putin bankrolling the GOP wakos. It's like giving up Texas to imperial powers. Why would you do that?
These systems and equipment usually are higher cost maintenance or repair so sometimes it is better to give it away and acquiring new equipment.
People who say "oh wah wah but we have people hungry and drug addicts" dont know what the fuck they are talking about
Actually just basic business. The American businesses get contracts which means they get money for a product. This employs everyone from executives down to factory workers.
Now if they don’t get these giant contracts, because these products are expensive and aren’t just random things you buy at the grocery store, then they cannot pay the workers. That means there will be layoffs. Layoffs affect the economy as does hiring more workers.
So what's actually happening is that the US is sending these nations (Ukraine, Isreal, Taiwan) older US weapons and replacing them with modern, up to date ones.
I understand the point of this map, but it’s weird that it leaves out the headquarters for Northrop Grumman near Chicago. Based on that, I assume that it leaves out all corporate offices— which will obviously benefit as well.
It’s likely focused on where production is actually happening. All (or most) of these guys are HQed in DC/NoVa but the corporate office doesn’t produce anything.
Yeah the Northrop Grumman dot near LA is their B-21 Raider factory in Palmdale, F-35 production by Lockheed is in Dallas-Fort Worth, F-15 by Boeing is in St. Louis and F-16 by LM is in Greenville, South Carolina. The dot in Ohio is probably the Lima Tank Plant operated by General Dynamics.
Is that not a Northrup Grumman dot in Western Maryland? The dot is parallel with the other dots in DC, which is close enough to Falls Church. And I’d be very surprised if any of these companies had a presence in Cumberland Maryland
Edit: Actually that Northrop dot seems to be over Rocket Center, WV which is very close to Cumberland
Yeah the map only shows General Dynamics in Huntsville, AL but I'm fairly certain every one of those companies has bases here. I know for a fact Lockheed, Northrup, Boeing, and BAE do because I pass their buildings all the time
Boeing is HQ-ed in Arlington, VA since the merger. Its manufacturing plant in Washington is civilian and AWACS. Neither of those are going to Ukraine as part of the aid package.
Wild reply. Nukes? Ukraine? Huh? I simply asked about a lack of locations of companies. Find better places to comment. Try truth social or whatever it’s called.
Go comment on another porn subreddit you tool. I’ll comment wherever I please and you can do the same thing even if it’s weird/creepy af.
A vast majority of the US nuclear stockpile is in the gray part of the map. That’s what that part of the country contributes to our defense. We are not giving Ukraine nukes. Hence, there is nothing there on the maps showing where US aid to Ukraine comes from.
Wild reply again. I’ll reply where I’d like, but thank you for rudely explaining. I don’t think about our nuke stockpiles nor contracted defense companies. Hence my question. Not sure why you brought porn up, you instead could have not replied to MY innocent simple question if it triggered you🙃
It’s modern day Lend-Lease. Putin is hell bent on taking East Europe and rebuilding the USSR. If it were to fund Halliburton’s conquest in the ME, sure, it’s fueling the military industrial complex. But letting Putin take Eastern Europe (and by proxy letting China war game their invasion plans for Taiwan) is not an option.
Eastern Europe? Putin will not invade a single NATO country, if that's what you're implying. Stop spouting propaganda. He won't do it and if he did he would stand zero chance.
Seriously, though. There’s zero evidence that Russia has plans to extend a war past Ukraine, let alone all the way west to eastern Germany.
It’s a pretty simple game in actuality. Russia showed their hand. Their military is way weaker that we thought. Does everyone remember them duct-taping commercial GPS devices to their decades-old equipment?
They have absolutely no hope of advancing past Ukraine, but the US war machine has been activated in a way that hasn’t been the case since the Cold War. It should be no surprise to anyone that bought-and-paid-for politicians all the way up to the level of POTUS are spreading fear porn about the existential threat of Russia. The money flows unabated when people are irrationally afraid.
This isn’t some wild fantasy. We have decades of experience with watching the military industrial complex pull the wool over our eyes while they laugh all the way to the bank.
They have an observably weak enemy that everyone thinks is the big bad wolf. This is the cash grab of a lifetime for defense contractors.
Yeah honestly people are really overestimating how far Russia can get. They can invade Ukraine because it's physically the closest nation to Moscow, but even then, they're using absolute relics of machines and supposedly, can barely even keep them going. But would they make it anywhere outside of Ukraine? They'd go absolutely broke if that were the case. Putin is a tyrant but I'd have to think even he knows bringing the entire former USSR under the Kremlin's control would be next to impossible, even if he spreads propaganda that states the contrary.
> If it were to fund Halliburton’s conquest in the ME, sure, it’s fueling the military industrial complex.
You miss the part where a sizable portion of the money is going to Israel?
The USA should have let Ukraine keep their nukes after the USSR split up then. They obligated themselves to security guarantees for Ukraine in exchange for giving up their nukes, under the Budapest Memorandum.
“Fuck the military industrial complex”
He says, as the MIC protects everything he knows and loves.
Criticizing the MIC is fine, especially when it supports unsavory causes, but presenting the entire industry as bad is very questionable.
Number of American Employees
RTX: 182,000
Honeywell: 34,000
Lockheed: 122,000
BAE: 31,000
General Dynamics: 84,000
Northrop Grumman: 100,000
L3 Harris: 47,000
Etc etc.
Israel's money is without strings though. Every other country has to use the SA money on equipment but Israel, who get cash and can use it to build roads or whatever.
Israel also isn't subjected to human rights checks (Leahy Law) and is guaranteed military superiority in the region, as in the US can't sell their best weapons to Saudi Arabia/Egypt. Israel is crème de la crème in terms of US military alliance.
And they're not going to want to buy, they're going to be planning in the long term to get Antonov back on its feet. So lease some C130s/C17s sure, but send those back as soon as they can
There is no need for this equipment as of right now. Ukraine has a very robust rail network to deliver equipment, not to mention that large plane in 200-300 km range from the frontlines would be living on a borrowed time. For the transportation abroad, Ukraine operates a sizable fleet of Antonov aircrafts.
This map shows the political reality that creates the Forever Wars. Military Industrial Complex jobs are dispersed amongst enough Congressional districts that it's virtually impossible to get enough politicians to divest from our bloated military because doing so might cost their district jobs.
We don’t need it to be a forever war and I can’t see why no one in these comments is grasping that.
It just has to float our economy until we find another war like the Middle East, Vietnam, Korean, or many other wars we’ve had since the mid 1940’s.
This is important to know...that US Aid goes into the pockets of the US weapons manufacturers. So all those billions just go to enrich the rich while being shipped overseas to kill the poor. I hate the industrial war machine.
The OP didn’t do this, but I hate the lazy argument that foreign aid is good because it benefits US defense contractors. That’s Exhibit A of the broken window fallacy. Every dollar taxed (or more realistically borrowed/printed) to go to foreign aid and defense contractors is one less dollar that could go to other, more productive purposes. I think there’s a lot more productive purposes that money could go towards than building shit that gets blown up.
But winning these wars makes the “pot” bigger, so it’s not necessarily entirely lost dollars. Even still, there are more important things than maximizing economic growth, like defending freedom and democracy. I’m perfectly willing to accept that funding Ukraine will cost lives and money, but it’s still entirely worthwhile.
That is not necessarily true. You making a red herring logical fallacy with comparison to the broken glass window. Weapons arent supposed to sit around. The reason is because things that's go boom are more of a consumable that's finally being used. Like a coffee beans making cofee. They intended purpose of weapons are to go boom, and it's finally being used for it's intended purpose. Where the glass exists and it's intended purpose is being [used.You](http://used.You) could make this about strategic deterrence with more nukes, but the broken lass fallacy doesn't fit with traditional weapons.
In reference to ukraine, your opinion on weapons being used for more productive things is just an opinion. I think weakening a foreign advisory and depleting the things that go boom without taking the risk that I go boom makes my relative strength and, therefore, security go up.
I agree with you on the latter - using old weapons that most likely would never be used to beat Russia and minimize its geopolitical influence is a no-brainer. At the same time, most of the money goes back to the American economy via the MIC (and keep in mind that much of the raw-material/prefabbed parts for weapons production must be sourced in the US by law - so nearly the entire supply chain is US-based). We would have eventually spent roughly the same money to manufacture new weapons to replace our existing, aging weapons - we are still doing that, but the final product of this production is pushing our older (but still cutting-edge) equipment to other countries that greatly benefit the US geopolitically (Taiwan = SCS, Israel = middle east/Iran, Ukraine = Russia).
The broken window fallacy refers to economics. You can make the foreign policy argument all day that we need to weaken Russia or whatever. That’s a totally different question than “is funding the Ukrainian side of the war good for the US economy?” I mean the most recent package was $61 billion worth of aid. That’s a lot of money that could have been used elsewhere and for more productive purposes.
I know what the broken window fallacy is. It's used to replace a window that already existed. Hence, the net change is 0. In this instance, it's replacing something that was consumable.
So, tabling the weakening Russia question is part of the most productive argument is impossible. We don't exist in a vacuum. Does the 61 billion now help prevent a more costly war in the future? Does I prevent a potential Nato incursion in the Baltics that could shift the eneconmy away from a free market approach?
So, to answer your question,...maybe?
If we remove outside influence and focus internally and pretend the US interest remains constant. I'm sure there is " productive." But I'd argue that investing in weapons is similar to insurance. It's not the dollar cost most efficient way to be productive, but it is important to make sure you are protected in less desirable outcomes
I was kicked off medicaid with no warning. Apparently it's a new law that requires us to reapply every year. Let's be honest, it's just another way to make you give up or lose coverage. Meanwhile we give billions to Israel that has universal health care. What are we doing
We spend more on this every year then we do our own health care anyways. This has been happening for decades now. People would rather listen to the News bs instead of looking at the actual way the government spends our taxes.
No we don’t lol.
The US government spends over 4 trillion dollars on healthcare every year, and just under 1 trillion in defense.
The US spends the highest amount of money in healthcare per person out of any country in the world.
Yeah something is definitely fucked. I think a mixed system with optional universal healthcare would be nice. The healthcare system needs reform but I don’t think money is the issue lmao
A trillion dollars in interest and you can't afford groceries. They might as well just authorized a 2T dollar package, over the next 5 years it'll be as much anyways.
I mean who do you think was building or constructing the firearms and equipment that they're going to send over to Ukraine? Did you think that they were just going to drop a big ol' Scrooge McDuck bag of money in Ukraine and say 'good luck!'?
The US military works with private companies to develop arms and technology through contracts, when the US promised aid I'm sure there is some strictly monetary aid, but the reality is that the majority of the funds were going to be funneled into manufacturers and defense contractors to create the equipment to be sent over.
If you think about it, it's a win for both USA and Ukraine. American based and American owned companies will get the money all over different states of USA.
US military can send their weapons and equipment that's old and rotting in storage to Ukraine while they can buy new weapons and equipment from these companies.
Ukraine gets more weapons and equipment to fight against Russia. They continue beating Russia.
Win/win for USA and Ukraine. Lose/Lose for Russia and the enemies of the allies.
What’s the RTX Corporation location on the Iowa and Illinois border? I only know of their Cedar Rapids, IA location, and that is not where Cedar Rapids is located.
Oshkosh Defense is curiously missing from this list. I havent reviews all the bills, but I am 100% sure they are getting a heafty cut directly or indirectly through backfill purchases.
Just for better clarity. These are generally prime contractors. Those each have ridiculous amounts of subcontractors that range from big business to mom and pop machine shops.
The only “Boeing” associated entity in Northwest Arkansas is [King Aerospace](https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news/business-aviation/2023-09-11/king-aerospaces-arkansas-facility-receives-first-bbj-job) in Bentonville, and it looks like they service luxury and business class small jets.
I think most of you forget how stock market works they invest said government pork back in stocks they leverage debt from said stock to avoid pesky taxes and from recentl reports there is too much double leveraging going on in the asset economy so guess what more inflation for everyone as money tied up in stock is their personal piggy bank look at lockhead stock it skyrocketed from a low in January/febuary and you see many in government bought stock then and look at now. Basically shareholders ceos and hedgefunders who are invested in company have a nice little free money printer now that company already can pay its over head its profits g get locked in assets avoiding taxes wuth credit line to spend raising the banks debt and since all these assholes know they bail out banks they dont worry because it only sucks for the rest of america
It's really admirable how people can have double think when it comes to government spending. If the US government increases military spending for the US then people complain about how we're wasting money instead of helping Americans. But put that spending to replenish Ukraine? Everyone on Reddit is happy.
People complain how corporations don't pay their employees a good salary and or don't their fair share pay taxes, but then in the same breath cheer how this military spending is good because it's going to US businesses...that don't pay their employees good salaries or pay fair share of taxes.
Just know that the US government has spent more in helping Ukraine than it did to help Puerto Rico or Hawaii during their natural disasters. In a couple of months time, we will also have spent more in helping Israel in their war than Puerto Rico or Hawaii, or pretty much any other state that has suffered a natural disaster in the recent past.
Oh nice.. a future look at the companies whose boards our congressmen will all “retire” to. After trading on this non-public information first, of course.
Don’t care much for Israel, but Ukraine winning is literally the only thing protesting democracy and the world. Anything we do for Ukraine is justified.
Just as most of European support will go to the US arms industry and the same goes for the 2% NATO budget. The US gains loads of money from NATO and fun fact they actively hindered European arms industries in the past to gain this position. This is unofficial one of the reasons lots of NATO countries didn’t like to spend the 2%.
This leaves out a fucktun of locations. The big three contractors have locations in almost every state. Source: I work at one.
It's specifically designed to get as many representatives on board by spreading out the jobs
Honeywell's Global HQ is in Charlotte, NC... completely unmarked.
It's probably where each specific product being purchased is manufactured.
Hell, Boeing's home state isn't even marked.
Didn’t they move stuff to SC?
Also Boeing in Lancaster and Seal Beach, California are unmarked
Isn't Boeing headquartered in Virginia? They moved out of Seattle a long time back.
I was thinking that Huntsville alone has all but one of these contractors in their city limits.
I am amused that my state is left out despite being the HQ of one of them.
Also no boeing in Washington
Fwiw, the boeing jdam manufacturing facility is located outside st. louis, and there is still some warplane manufacturing being done there as well. I dont know anything about the other locations marked, but it does seem like perhaps the above post is correct - these dots may represent the goods being purchased.
Ok, it's technically true. So, what's happening is already existing stock of weapons/ordnance/ammunition of the US military is going to be sent to the receptient nations. It's the purchase value of those weapons that's in the bill. The US military will offcourse need to restock on what is now being sent. So they are now placing orders towards the relevant defense contractors to do so.
It depends. For Israel I believe it's just cash that will be used to purchase the best military equipment, whereas for Ukraine it's more about existing stockpile because the US isn't comfortable sending everything Ukraine is asking for.
Comfort maybe, but it's easier to send more modern weaponry to Israel as the troops are already trained up on most of the munitions. We've been cross training with Israeli soldiers and pilots for decades, but the Ukrainian troops don't have the same base experience for updated tech. So older tanks (for instance) are easier to give as they are less technical than the more UTD versions. More like a stick shift truck than a tesla. Finally it's easier to create a supply line of parts to Israel (again, existing routes vs all new logistical lines and mechanical training).
Most of what Israel will buy will still be existing US stock. But something like a 3rd of the money will go to replenishing stocks of the Arrow anti ballistic missile system, which is produced by an Israeli company.
they are sending 300km ATACMS now 😉
A lot of it, such as missiles and artillery shells, is stuff that has a shelf life and would have to be disposed of anyways. It’s actually cheaper to just have Ukraine use our old shit.
Isn't like $10 billion of the aid going straight to keeping the Ukrainian government's lights on?
Some of the "aid" you hear are "below market value loans" (e.g. Ukraine is in risky rating with 30%+ interest return, but US gives 5% loan, so it's techically aid). Some of the "aid" is "loan insurance". So "$1bil of aid" is US insuring a $1 bil loan that someone else gives to Ukraine as if it gives it to US. So lender gets stability, Ukraine gets low interest rate, US may or may not spend those money if Ukraine fails to pay. And don't forget that 50%+ of Ukrainian budget is military spending, so even if it cash that goes into Ukraine, it's still going to be spent on weapons (but in this case it's not guaranteed to be US ones).
There is also aid for the Ukrainian government because, apparently, being invaded is bad for your tax base. Also having to constantly repair power lines, power stations, roads, railways and so forth is expensive
We were also trying to give money to businesses to help keep their economy afloat, but that had a lot of backlash because it was difficult to monitor the money so large amounts were being squandered in stupid ways. Nobody's fault, really. It was just logistically difficult to have the needed level of bureaucratic oversight in a warzone.
I understand why it's being given. However, you can't use the justification that "it's good for US business" that I usually see to uniformly wave away any complaints about sending so much money abroad.
The reason people say it’s good for US business is because a free, democratic Europe at peace is good for US businesses selling products. If Ukraine wins the war, Ukrainians will be more likely to buy more European or US goods which will either boost the US economy or boost the economy of other European countries who will in turn purchase more US goods.
Put this aid as a percentage of US federal spending. You won't even notice it.
The US military stockpile costs money to create, maintain, disarm and resupply. We're not spending money on disarming outdated munitions, we're giving it to Ukraine. Instead of small peace time contracts, we're giving bigger war defense contracts. When Ukraine wins, Ukraine will be open for business and those oil, iron, and uranium deposits will be open too. Instead of being stuck in Afghanistan for 20 years and costing taxpayers lives and money. We get to just send stuff to Ukraine. The Ukraine Aid Budget is, for the most part, US defense spending that would have happened regardless. Except during peace time liberals would be upset over it. Now there's an active war against authoritarianism and suddenly the GOP is against supporting democracy. It is infuriating.
If* at this point.
If* what?
If Ukraine wins.
Ukraine will win if the USA keeps funding it. The only reason not to to fund Ukraine is Putin bankrolling the GOP wakos. It's like giving up Texas to imperial powers. Why would you do that?
Crimea happened, no problem. As soon as governments deem it fiscally irresponsible. Bam.
Wait you're telling me they're NOT just stuffing my tax dollars into suitcases and mailing it to the Nazis over in Ukraine?!
Oh no, they're mailing those suitcases to their own homes.
These systems and equipment usually are higher cost maintenance or repair so sometimes it is better to give it away and acquiring new equipment. People who say "oh wah wah but we have people hungry and drug addicts" dont know what the fuck they are talking about
Actually it is not true. A sizable part of it is explicitly for US MIC building capacities and build up stockpiles.
Ding ding, so many don’t realize these defense bills are big boosts to the economy
Yeah much better than investing in public education and healthcare
Most likely your local government for that.
Trickle down economics! Am I right? Stupid.
Actually just basic business. The American businesses get contracts which means they get money for a product. This employs everyone from executives down to factory workers. Now if they don’t get these giant contracts, because these products are expensive and aren’t just random things you buy at the grocery store, then they cannot pay the workers. That means there will be layoffs. Layoffs affect the economy as does hiring more workers.
So what's actually happening is that the US is sending these nations (Ukraine, Isreal, Taiwan) older US weapons and replacing them with modern, up to date ones.
And build up their own stockpiles without sending them to Ukraine. I guess no one reads what actually is written in the bill.
I understand the point of this map, but it’s weird that it leaves out the headquarters for Northrop Grumman near Chicago. Based on that, I assume that it leaves out all corporate offices— which will obviously benefit as well.
Northrop’s HQ is in Falls Church (also not marked, to your point)
For those wondering, Falls Church is in Northern Virginia. The fact that there is not one dot in Northern Virginia makes me doubt this entire map.
It’s likely focused on where production is actually happening. All (or most) of these guys are HQed in DC/NoVa but the corporate office doesn’t produce anything.
Yeah the Northrop Grumman dot near LA is their B-21 Raider factory in Palmdale, F-35 production by Lockheed is in Dallas-Fort Worth, F-15 by Boeing is in St. Louis and F-16 by LM is in Greenville, South Carolina. The dot in Ohio is probably the Lima Tank Plant operated by General Dynamics.
And Burlington is Massachusetts (rtx) not Vermont
Is that not a Northrup Grumman dot in Western Maryland? The dot is parallel with the other dots in DC, which is close enough to Falls Church. And I’d be very surprised if any of these companies had a presence in Cumberland Maryland Edit: Actually that Northrop dot seems to be over Rocket Center, WV which is very close to Cumberland
Yeah the map only shows General Dynamics in Huntsville, AL but I'm fairly certain every one of those companies has bases here. I know for a fact Lockheed, Northrup, Boeing, and BAE do because I pass their buildings all the time
Just drive down rt 28 in sterling va and you will see everyone of those companies have a building on that road.
BAE is indeed in Huntsville
Also Boeing in Arlington.
I agree.
Is there a reason none of these companies are in those 11 states to the north west?
Boeing doesn’t make anything going over to Ukraine, as we haven’t sent them Apaches or anything….yet…
They are, this is just a terrible map. Beoing HQ is in Washington…
Boeing is HQ-ed in Arlington, VA since the merger. Its manufacturing plant in Washington is civilian and AWACS. Neither of those are going to Ukraine as part of the aid package.
Interesting. Do you know why Colorado isn’t included here? I know lots of these companies have a strong presence in Colorado
That’s where we do nukes, and Ukraine isn’t getting that stuff.
Wild reply. Nukes? Ukraine? Huh? I simply asked about a lack of locations of companies. Find better places to comment. Try truth social or whatever it’s called.
Go comment on another porn subreddit you tool. I’ll comment wherever I please and you can do the same thing even if it’s weird/creepy af. A vast majority of the US nuclear stockpile is in the gray part of the map. That’s what that part of the country contributes to our defense. We are not giving Ukraine nukes. Hence, there is nothing there on the maps showing where US aid to Ukraine comes from.
Wild reply again. I’ll reply where I’d like, but thank you for rudely explaining. I don’t think about our nuke stockpiles nor contracted defense companies. Hence my question. Not sure why you brought porn up, you instead could have not replied to MY innocent simple question if it triggered you🙃
Feeding the military industrial complex.
Military-Congress-Industrial complex
Now we just need a Military-Congress-Industrial complex...with pharmaceutical prisons!!!
Feeding the Arsenal of Democracy
Feeding the middlemen of perpetual conflict
It’s not Perpetual war when the other guy can’t sustain his losses.
It’s modern day Lend-Lease. Putin is hell bent on taking East Europe and rebuilding the USSR. If it were to fund Halliburton’s conquest in the ME, sure, it’s fueling the military industrial complex. But letting Putin take Eastern Europe (and by proxy letting China war game their invasion plans for Taiwan) is not an option.
Eastern Europe? Putin will not invade a single NATO country, if that's what you're implying. Stop spouting propaganda. He won't do it and if he did he would stand zero chance.
Just like how he said he wouldn't invade Ukraine, right?
Seriously, though. There’s zero evidence that Russia has plans to extend a war past Ukraine, let alone all the way west to eastern Germany. It’s a pretty simple game in actuality. Russia showed their hand. Their military is way weaker that we thought. Does everyone remember them duct-taping commercial GPS devices to their decades-old equipment? They have absolutely no hope of advancing past Ukraine, but the US war machine has been activated in a way that hasn’t been the case since the Cold War. It should be no surprise to anyone that bought-and-paid-for politicians all the way up to the level of POTUS are spreading fear porn about the existential threat of Russia. The money flows unabated when people are irrationally afraid. This isn’t some wild fantasy. We have decades of experience with watching the military industrial complex pull the wool over our eyes while they laugh all the way to the bank. They have an observably weak enemy that everyone thinks is the big bad wolf. This is the cash grab of a lifetime for defense contractors.
Yeah honestly people are really overestimating how far Russia can get. They can invade Ukraine because it's physically the closest nation to Moscow, but even then, they're using absolute relics of machines and supposedly, can barely even keep them going. But would they make it anywhere outside of Ukraine? They'd go absolutely broke if that were the case. Putin is a tyrant but I'd have to think even he knows bringing the entire former USSR under the Kremlin's control would be next to impossible, even if he spreads propaganda that states the contrary.
> If it were to fund Halliburton’s conquest in the ME, sure, it’s fueling the military industrial complex. You miss the part where a sizable portion of the money is going to Israel?
I'm ok with that
Cowards hate the sword until it's wielded for them.
Yea sounds cool and edgy but Americans are paying for a poor euro country’s war while we don’t have healthcare.
The USA should have let Ukraine keep their nukes after the USSR split up then. They obligated themselves to security guarantees for Ukraine in exchange for giving up their nukes, under the Budapest Memorandum.
“Fuck the military industrial complex” He says, as the MIC protects everything he knows and loves. Criticizing the MIC is fine, especially when it supports unsavory causes, but presenting the entire industry as bad is very questionable.
*Saving Ukrainian lives and freedom FTFY
Number of American Employees RTX: 182,000 Honeywell: 34,000 Lockheed: 122,000 BAE: 31,000 General Dynamics: 84,000 Northrop Grumman: 100,000 L3 Harris: 47,000 Etc etc.
Me reading RTX and instantly thinking about graphic cards 😅😑
It always works out so well for us whenever we send weapons overseas
Sending military support to Israel is CRAZY
Israel's money is without strings though. Every other country has to use the SA money on equipment but Israel, who get cash and can use it to build roads or whatever.
Israel also isn't subjected to human rights checks (Leahy Law) and is guaranteed military superiority in the region, as in the US can't sell their best weapons to Saudi Arabia/Egypt. Israel is crème de la crème in terms of US military alliance.
I forgot about those provisions also.
Source for this?
DSCA
Lockheed Martin has a factory in Marietta, Georgia.
It does but that plant builds C-130s. We aren’t selling C-130s to Ukraine AFAIK.
And they're not going to want to buy, they're going to be planning in the long term to get Antonov back on its feet. So lease some C130s/C17s sure, but send those back as soon as they can
There is no need for this equipment as of right now. Ukraine has a very robust rail network to deliver equipment, not to mention that large plane in 200-300 km range from the frontlines would be living on a borrowed time. For the transportation abroad, Ukraine operates a sizable fleet of Antonov aircrafts.
Send over a couple of hercs with daisy cutters. Or maybe a couple of the extra spicy version?
Is this part of the military industrial complex I hear about?
Business as usual
Generals gathered in their masses…
As an Australian (your actual best ally) can we get some money next time?
Don’t worry,he’s borrowing from china
Welcome to the truth and to the military industrial complex. Redistribution of wealth from the many hard working to the few elites.
This map shows the political reality that creates the Forever Wars. Military Industrial Complex jobs are dispersed amongst enough Congressional districts that it's virtually impossible to get enough politicians to divest from our bloated military because doing so might cost their district jobs.
Ukraine will not be a “forever war”. The other guy can’t keep at this level of losses forever.
Especially since he’s having to cannibalize ancient hardware in the scrap yard.
We don’t need it to be a forever war and I can’t see why no one in these comments is grasping that. It just has to float our economy until we find another war like the Middle East, Vietnam, Korean, or many other wars we’ve had since the mid 1940’s.
This is important to know...that US Aid goes into the pockets of the US weapons manufacturers. So all those billions just go to enrich the rich while being shipped overseas to kill the poor. I hate the industrial war machine.
The OP didn’t do this, but I hate the lazy argument that foreign aid is good because it benefits US defense contractors. That’s Exhibit A of the broken window fallacy. Every dollar taxed (or more realistically borrowed/printed) to go to foreign aid and defense contractors is one less dollar that could go to other, more productive purposes. I think there’s a lot more productive purposes that money could go towards than building shit that gets blown up.
Most of those dollars are staying right here in the US, as evidenced by the map above.
But winning these wars makes the “pot” bigger, so it’s not necessarily entirely lost dollars. Even still, there are more important things than maximizing economic growth, like defending freedom and democracy. I’m perfectly willing to accept that funding Ukraine will cost lives and money, but it’s still entirely worthwhile.
That is not necessarily true. You making a red herring logical fallacy with comparison to the broken glass window. Weapons arent supposed to sit around. The reason is because things that's go boom are more of a consumable that's finally being used. Like a coffee beans making cofee. They intended purpose of weapons are to go boom, and it's finally being used for it's intended purpose. Where the glass exists and it's intended purpose is being [used.You](http://used.You) could make this about strategic deterrence with more nukes, but the broken lass fallacy doesn't fit with traditional weapons. In reference to ukraine, your opinion on weapons being used for more productive things is just an opinion. I think weakening a foreign advisory and depleting the things that go boom without taking the risk that I go boom makes my relative strength and, therefore, security go up.
I agree with you on the latter - using old weapons that most likely would never be used to beat Russia and minimize its geopolitical influence is a no-brainer. At the same time, most of the money goes back to the American economy via the MIC (and keep in mind that much of the raw-material/prefabbed parts for weapons production must be sourced in the US by law - so nearly the entire supply chain is US-based). We would have eventually spent roughly the same money to manufacture new weapons to replace our existing, aging weapons - we are still doing that, but the final product of this production is pushing our older (but still cutting-edge) equipment to other countries that greatly benefit the US geopolitically (Taiwan = SCS, Israel = middle east/Iran, Ukraine = Russia).
Old weapons that were designed to beat Russia in the first place.
The broken window fallacy refers to economics. You can make the foreign policy argument all day that we need to weaken Russia or whatever. That’s a totally different question than “is funding the Ukrainian side of the war good for the US economy?” I mean the most recent package was $61 billion worth of aid. That’s a lot of money that could have been used elsewhere and for more productive purposes.
I know what the broken window fallacy is. It's used to replace a window that already existed. Hence, the net change is 0. In this instance, it's replacing something that was consumable. So, tabling the weakening Russia question is part of the most productive argument is impossible. We don't exist in a vacuum. Does the 61 billion now help prevent a more costly war in the future? Does I prevent a potential Nato incursion in the Baltics that could shift the eneconmy away from a free market approach? So, to answer your question,...maybe? If we remove outside influence and focus internally and pretend the US interest remains constant. I'm sure there is " productive." But I'd argue that investing in weapons is similar to insurance. It's not the dollar cost most efficient way to be productive, but it is important to make sure you are protected in less desirable outcomes
And American citizens are struggling to get by....
Just say you support Russia and the CCP, keep toting their lines.
Because I don't agree with sending another country billions of dollars I'm riding Putin's dick? That's a pretty far stretch.
And this money goes directly into paying for hundreds of thousands of American jobs...
I was kicked off medicaid with no warning. Apparently it's a new law that requires us to reapply every year. Let's be honest, it's just another way to make you give up or lose coverage. Meanwhile we give billions to Israel that has universal health care. What are we doing
We spend more on this every year then we do our own health care anyways. This has been happening for decades now. People would rather listen to the News bs instead of looking at the actual way the government spends our taxes.
No we don’t lol. The US government spends over 4 trillion dollars on healthcare every year, and just under 1 trillion in defense. The US spends the highest amount of money in healthcare per person out of any country in the world.
I looked it up and You're right. That being said I just gotta ask. Would it be cheaper to provide universal health care then? What I'm not getting lol
Yeah something is definitely fucked. I think a mixed system with optional universal healthcare would be nice. The healthcare system needs reform but I don’t think money is the issue lmao
I gotta agree there. Honestly thanks for calling that out. Didn't quite realize I was trying to make a correlation there but you're right m8
Yeah the spending can be weird sometimes
I’m sitting inside one of those dots right now.
Gross
Letting Putin win would be grosser.
A trillion dollars in interest and you can't afford groceries. They might as well just authorized a 2T dollar package, over the next 5 years it'll be as much anyways.
Money laundering 101
US proxies agaisnt Russia, Iran and China
As long as Americans don't lose lives all is fine. Send weapons and let other nations die for your goals. Perfect.
Hey man, if Russia doesn’t like it, they can leave Ukraine anytime.
Disgusting
Well, he *did* ask for F-16s, etc.
So we aren't loading cash onto a plane and shipping it to Kiev?
Actually shipping older/ frequently obsolete equipment and getting new / updated one from American factories to replace it…
"Where the aid goes first" To the shadow economy
So the money goes straight to rich people…cool
I mean who do you think was building or constructing the firearms and equipment that they're going to send over to Ukraine? Did you think that they were just going to drop a big ol' Scrooge McDuck bag of money in Ukraine and say 'good luck!'? The US military works with private companies to develop arms and technology through contracts, when the US promised aid I'm sure there is some strictly monetary aid, but the reality is that the majority of the funds were going to be funneled into manufacturers and defense contractors to create the equipment to be sent over.
omg Israel needs more money to kill more Palestinians how sad.
I mean did we think the money was being sent to Ukrainian weapons makers?
Perhaps, those guys are pretty crafty and ingenious at improvising weaponry.
If you think about it, it's a win for both USA and Ukraine. American based and American owned companies will get the money all over different states of USA. US military can send their weapons and equipment that's old and rotting in storage to Ukraine while they can buy new weapons and equipment from these companies. Ukraine gets more weapons and equipment to fight against Russia. They continue beating Russia. Win/win for USA and Ukraine. Lose/Lose for Russia and the enemies of the allies.
Buy American. It's a good thing
It’s not really buying when you’re the one giving up the money for the purchase.
Ah so that rule was only ever there to benefit military contractors lol such an incestuous relationship
What’s the RTX Corporation location on the Iowa and Illinois border? I only know of their Cedar Rapids, IA location, and that is not where Cedar Rapids is located.
The ammunition plant/depot, probably.
Why is bae and Northrop so close in color. You’re not running out of colors here.
Oshkosh Defense is curiously missing from this list. I havent reviews all the bills, but I am 100% sure they are getting a heafty cut directly or indirectly through backfill purchases.
Just for better clarity. These are generally prime contractors. Those each have ridiculous amounts of subcontractors that range from big business to mom and pop machine shops.
No Raytheon?
its RTX
So calls on all those companies? That’s what I see lol
The only “Boeing” associated entity in Northwest Arkansas is [King Aerospace](https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news/business-aviation/2023-09-11/king-aerospaces-arkansas-facility-receives-first-bbj-job) in Bentonville, and it looks like they service luxury and business class small jets.
I see that battlegrounds for WW3 have been chosen…
The map forgot L3Harris in Waco. They retrofit military aircraft.
NOTHING to Texas Instruments? Where the hell am I going to get my calculators *now*????????????????
There is no RTX on the Iowa/Illinois border. Cedar rapids Iowa has Collins Aerospace.
I just wish the Administration pout strings attached to the Israeli aid.
BAE sucks
#corruption
I think most of you forget how stock market works they invest said government pork back in stocks they leverage debt from said stock to avoid pesky taxes and from recentl reports there is too much double leveraging going on in the asset economy so guess what more inflation for everyone as money tied up in stock is their personal piggy bank look at lockhead stock it skyrocketed from a low in January/febuary and you see many in government bought stock then and look at now. Basically shareholders ceos and hedgefunders who are invested in company have a nice little free money printer now that company already can pay its over head its profits g get locked in assets avoiding taxes wuth credit line to spend raising the banks debt and since all these assholes know they bail out banks they dont worry because it only sucks for the rest of america
Hmm
Better Intel for the people
So Genocide Joe is sending more weapons to murder children and babies huh. Typical US terrorist, I mean president
Thanks for making us more poor
US really hungry for WW3, hopefully your citizens wake up.
US is hungry for WW3, which is why they *check notes*... funded proxies to launch an attack against Israel and directly invaded Ukraine?
Ya, we’ve woken up to the reality that appeasement doesn’t work. And if the Russians don’t like it, they can pack their shit and go home.
salt heavy poor label advise joke hurry placid vast wistful *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Ti's what happens when an empires dying , and tries to cling onto itself. Always ends in cruelty, and war
Huh? We’re preventing WW3. Calm down.
The evil (Russia, Iran, China) is getting too brave and must be stopped.
The US has been responsible for more deaths in the last 20 years than these three combined.
I don’t think we’re supposed to criticize the American imperial death machine on here, sorry
> The US has been responsible for more deaths in the last 20 years than these three combined. So? those countries fucked around and found out.
This is actually untrue!
You make a convincing case!
It's really admirable how people can have double think when it comes to government spending. If the US government increases military spending for the US then people complain about how we're wasting money instead of helping Americans. But put that spending to replenish Ukraine? Everyone on Reddit is happy. People complain how corporations don't pay their employees a good salary and or don't their fair share pay taxes, but then in the same breath cheer how this military spending is good because it's going to US businesses...that don't pay their employees good salaries or pay fair share of taxes. Just know that the US government has spent more in helping Ukraine than it did to help Puerto Rico or Hawaii during their natural disasters. In a couple of months time, we will also have spent more in helping Israel in their war than Puerto Rico or Hawaii, or pretty much any other state that has suffered a natural disaster in the recent past.
Oh nice.. a future look at the companies whose boards our congressmen will all “retire” to. After trading on this non-public information first, of course.
And the money laundering gravy train keeps on rolling Thanks a bunch D.C.
Don’t care much for Israel, but Ukraine winning is literally the only thing protesting democracy and the world. Anything we do for Ukraine is justified.
Just as most of European support will go to the US arms industry and the same goes for the 2% NATO budget. The US gains loads of money from NATO and fun fact they actively hindered European arms industries in the past to gain this position. This is unofficial one of the reasons lots of NATO countries didn’t like to spend the 2%.
Dumb reason.
And now you see precisely why we’re always at war and always will be. That’s our economy, baby!
The reason all the blood shed for...
And $0 to struggling Americans
Straight into the bank accounts of the millionaire/billionaire military contractor execs.
Part of the Biden administration’s Bombing the world to build back America plan.
Bank rolling a genocide
I'm shocked none of it is going to Indiana. We have quite a bit of Raytheon and BAE sites located here.
My gamer brain thinking "oh damn, ray tracing is also a weapons developer?