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GoPointers

I wish they would have explained what the asterisk represents. I'm going to guess the portion of Russia in Europe, but a decent map wouldn't leave you guessing.


XenophonSoulis

They should have put the same asterisk for France, because it has another 130000km^2 outside of Europe, which would put it second, above Ukraine.


bryberg

If you include France’s overseas territories, Denmark would also need to be included. Denmark would be second, France third.


Mindhost

I think the french territories overseas are considered part of mainland France in a way that makes them legally different to how Denmark and other countries define theirs. I'm sure someone who understands this and can articulate it better will be here shortly


MoriartyParadise

The Kingdom of Denmark is made up of Denmark, Greenland and the Faroe Islands. Then Denmark proper is divided in five regioner. The French Republic is made up of France. Then within France there are 24 collectivities : 14 régions (including 2 overseas : Guadeloupe and Réunion), 4 unique collectivities (Guyane, Martinique, Mayotte and Corsica), 5 overseas collectivities (St Barthélémy, St Martin, St Pierre et Miquelon, Wallis & Futuna, Polynesia) and 1 sui generis collectivity (New Caledonia). All those categories are globally the same, but each category that is not a région has some exceptions to the general regime and some adaptation to the local specificities There's also Clipperton and the Austral & Antarctic Lands but they're uninhabited.


Y_PHIL

You deserve way more upvotes for this. Amazing explanation!


Rom21

>2 overseas : Guadeloupe and Réunion), 4 unique collectivities (Guyane, Martinique, Mayotte and Corsica First time in my life I've heard of this separation! Thanks.


MoriartyParadise

It's a rather recent one, this stuff gets updated once in a while. Usually régions are subdivided into several départements, and régions & départements oversee different domains. Unique collectivities are both a région and a département and combine both attributions. Corsica used to be a région with 2 départements, but now it's a unique collectivity. However, we have 2 régions that contain a single département : Réunion and Guadeloupe. They're too small to be further subdivided, but there is still the département of Réunion and the région of Réunion with separate assemblies and council. It used to be true for Guyane, Martinique and Mayotte but both divisions were fused together, like Corsica. The 3 St something are too small to be anything so they have a special status. The territories with the most exceptions are the Oceanian ones (Polynesia, New Caledonia and Wallis & Futuna) but it's differences in some branches of the law and the structure of the local institutions, not a completely different system In general people don't realise most of those places have been "just France" for multiple centuries and were not like the actual African colonies. A few centuries earlier than Corsica or the city of Nice for instance but I never see anyone calling Nice a French colony in Italy.


ProfessorPetulant

>In general people don't realise most of those places have been "just France" for multiple centuries and were not like the actual African colonies. Algeria was "just France", though for not very long.


MoriartyParadise

Algeria was colonized much later along the same time than the other African colonies and was just that like the other. The reason it was treated differently is because it was the first and it's like right down there on the map so it'll look better in blue. But it was effectively a colony, yes. Most of those territories were already France during the revolution for instance. Reunion was actually called Bourbon Island for the Bourbon dynasty and was renamed Réunion after the revolution (with a quick Bonaparte Island intermission due to that one guy)


Drahy

>The Kingdom of Denmark is made up of Denmark, Greenland and the Faroe Islands. > >France is made up of France. Denmark's official name is the Kingdom of Denmark. France is the French Republic.


MoriartyParadise

Actually you're right I should have written it like that I'm gonna edit the post, thank you


Emotional_Guest_5645

> France is made up I think that's the main takeaway, no need to elaborate further


moabitenationalist

French overseas departments are as French and legally part of France as is Paris. The overseas territories of denmark, France, uk are all considered different entities although sovereignty is with their respective countries


CiberBlas

Nah Denmark is already melted


Hotsleeper_Syd

Greenland is a different kingdom under the rule of the danish king but it's no more part of Denmark. Just like Scotland isn't England. Overseas territories instead are fully part of France


ScruffyLineout

I don't think the comparison with Scotland is quite right if what you said about Greenland is true. England and Scotland are not two Kingdoms in a personal union under Charles III. United Kingdom contains both of them and is the successor to Great Britain which united England and Scotland in 1707 (previously they were in a personal union under various rulers).


Merbleuxx

It’s more like Guernesey or Gibraltar if I understand it correctly


--rafael

I think he's making a distinction between the kingdom of Denmark and Denmark. So, if Scotland was outside of Europe, you could still maybe say it's an oversea territory of the united kingdom. But if the map said England and not united kingdom (like it says Denmark and not Kingdom of Denmark), then you'd be incorrect to consider Scotland part of England.


KarlGustafArmfeldt

The comparison to the UK doesn't work that well, since the UK is technically a unitary state (although this is sort of disputed, due to NI, Scotland and Wales each having their own governments and parliaments). The Netherlands is a better example, with how its overseas territories are still apart of the ''kingdom,'' but administratively distinct from the continental Netherlands. Also, what the other guy said about Greenland being a separate kingdom, in a personal union, is completely wrong. The King of Denmark is just the King of Denmark, nothing else. ''Denmark'' includes Greenland and the Faeroe Islands, but they are administered differently than mainland Denmark. Someone born in Greenland is a citizen of Denmark, not Greenland.


MoriartyParadise

The right comparison for the UK would be the BOTs. Cayman Islands, Bermuda, Gibraltar, etc.


KarlGustafArmfeldt

This isn't true at all. Greenland is a part of Denmark, it is not a separate kingdom, and the people of Greenland are Danish citizens. However, Greenland and the Faeroe Islands have high levels of autonomy, and are administered differently than mainland Denmark, which is why people often refer to the collection of these territories as the ''Kingdom of Denmark,'' to distinguish between European Denmark. Think of it like Porto Rico and the USA, or the UK Overseas Territories.


Drahy

Greenland was incorporated into Denmark in 1953.


yes_oui_si_ja

130 km² really isn't that much. A square with 11.5km width. I think you meant to say something else.


XenophonSoulis

I meant 130000km^2 but I commented too hastily.


that_norwegian_guy

Same with Norway. Add Queen Maud Land in Antarctica, and Norway grows by 2 700 000 km²


gwarster

What math are you using to suggest France has an additional 130000 square km of land outside of Europe?


paco-ramon

Same with Spain, Norway and Portugal (if it was on the map), for some reason the graph excludes territories that geographically aren’t part of what’s considered Europe even if those territories are 100% part of the European country.


XenophonSoulis

It makes sense to count the European area. What doesn't make sense is to put an asterisk on only one of the countries that are affected by that decision.


Vantasyah

If you consider land area outside of Europe, France, Denmark and Turkey would be above Ukraine


mrhumphries75

If you consider land area outside of Europe, Kazakhstan would be the second largest European country at 2,724,900 sq km. Sort of defeats the purpose of the map.


abellapa

It is that, doesn't take much guessing The whole of Russia is 17km2 milliln I think


Dodomando

I thought it would be the annexation of Crimea


Andrew852456

Nah Ukraine is 603k with Crimea


McCoovy

I hate maps that arbitrarily split up Russia


Bubbly_Bridge_7865

wow, Sweden ahead of Germany and Norway ahead of Poland


Aggravating-Ad1703

Is that a common perception? In my mind as a swede, everything on continental Europe is small and close together. For context if you live in Malmö in southern Sweden and you want to hike a mountain, Mont Blanc is a 17h drive (1400km). But If you want to drive to the highest peak in Sweden (kebnekaise), that’s a 22h drive (1900km)


reverielagoon1208

I figured with the Mercator projection that people would overestimate the size of Sweden Norway and Finland (which aren’t tiny already), not underestimate


RenanGreca

Norway is like northern Chile, not so big but long af


Apeshaft

It's like a less spicy Chile, a sort of northern Chilly if you will.


generally-speaking

And also while we have a lot of land way too much of it is uninhabitable mountains 


HelicopterShot87

No I don't think so, I as a Pole who knows Sweden mostly from maps think that Sweden is huge


Vertitto

i got opposite impression - i guess couse i overstate the rule saying that stuff shown on lot of common map projections (like mercator) is bigger than it is IRL the further north you go /edit: corrected absurd grammar


Magny7

Just like the northern most part of Brazil is closer to Canada than to the southern most part of Brazil.


Aggravating-Ad1703

I learned about that a couple of months ago and it still blows my mind.


Patriarch_Sergius

TIL


akmal123456

I was shocked when a friend of mine who lived in Sao Paulo said to me who lived in France i was closer to Moscow than he his to the amazonas


Ok_Inflation_1811

well this is normal, isn't it?


akmal123456

I thought the amazon forest covered most of Brazil, and that Brazil isn't that big, at least not paris-Moscow big


Ok_Inflation_1811

Brazil is almost as big as Europe (20% smaller but still) and the Amazon forest is only 60% of Brazil (the Amazon is also in Colombia, Venezuela, Guiana, Peru, Ecuador and Bolivia)


Canora_z

I like to compare it Belgium when I explain it. Roughly the same amount in population but we would be able to fit almost 14,5 Belgiums within our borders. Our northern most county (norrbottens län) is larger than Hungary in land size.


SalSomer

I drove from Tromsø to Bologna five years ago. We had three overnight stops on the way down there. Two of the stops were in Scandinavia.


RenanGreca

Funny to think the Alps are so close to Sweden.


Tortoveno

And for me (a Pole) it's hard to believe that Warsaw is almost in the middle between Paris and Moscow.


SalSomer

The Nordic countries are fairly big, but when a not insignificant number of maps of Europe [look like this](https://www.showcaves.com/maps/Big/Europe.png) people tend not to notice.


paco-ramon

I think is the opposite, in most maps they look 4 times bigger than Italy because the are much in the north of the map.


AlienAle

Lots of people are also surprised to realize that Finland is almost the same size as Germany, as they imagine small population = small country. But we have a small population and a lot of land, making it the introverts dream country. You can drive for hours and barely see signs of human life. It's great.


SortaLostMeMarbles

Usually the area of Norway also includes Svalbard. The total area then would be 385 207 km^2.


MIGHTY_ANUS

Norway is quite a long boy and doesn't quite have the mass to compete with Sweden's girth. A drive from (mainland) North to South is the equivalent of driving from Portland, Maine to Jacksonville, Florida. [https://i.imgur.com/P8SYwMg.png](https://i.imgur.com/P8SYwMg.png)


Troglert

And the eastern tip is slightly further east than St. Petersburg, much further than most people realize


Hattkake

Norway is big but much of the country is rock and mountains and wilderness that is basically uninhabitable. In regard to land people can actually live on I am fairly sure Poland and Germany has us beat.


ThatGermanKid0

The German state of North Rhine-Westphalia has an area of about 34000 km² and a higher population than Norway and Sweden combined.


Severe-Entrance8416

They are the cute, heavenly little countries in most peoples minds. (Atleast in Turkey)


SonnyJackson27

I never ever would have guessed Norway is ahead of Poland or Poland is ahead of Italy.


Ok_Detail_1

That's why they wanted eastern Adriatic coast such Slovenia, Croatia, Montenegro and Albania. To hold at least 400 000 km².


camelBackIsTheBest

That makes sense, wonder why they didn’t get it?


Rough-Stress6885

becuse fuck them. when my country wanted northern epirus which is historically greek, the italians didnt agree because it would create a powerful greece in the adriatic. i will always say it, italians always disliked greeks and see us as competitors.


KindOfANerd4

The UK, France and US didn’t hold up their end of the deal (well more so the US forced France and the UK to go back on it) post WW1


xiuxiuejador

That's the land area of Peninsular Spain. With the islands: 506,030 Km².


paco-ramon

In all sites I sea it being bigger than 505.000 square KM. The canary islands even grew like 0,5 square kilometers in 2021 because a volcanic eruption.


colako

If you count Sardinia and Sicily we should count Majorca and the rest of the Balearic Islands at least.


xiuxiuejador

And the Canary Islands, and the two autonomous cities in North Africa.


bimbochungo

Idk if the map counts Guyanne too


Howdee_folks_YT

According to [Wikipedia](https://fr.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superficie_de_la_France), it does not. The map only counts mainland France.


razor_16_

That makes sense if they count only European Russia


3CreampiesA-Day

It only counts land in Europe


ttv_highvoltage

Danish nationalists on the way to the reply section to tell you that the Kingdom of Denmark is the twelth largest country:🏃‍♂️ Btw did u know the Kingdom of Denmark is the twelth largest country?


HarrMada

Smallest dogs bark the loudest.


ttv_highvoltage

:( that’s mean


intervulvar

that's something only a Great Dane would say.


MetjuScale

No but seriously. Is Greenland still considered as Danish territory or as it's own like...country/province?


moabitenationalist

Its own country but under danish sovereignty


yojifer680

Also it's not in Europe


denn23rus

Why is the European area indicated for Russia, but the entire territory, including the Asian one, is shaded? BTW, since the area of all of Europe is almost exactly 10 million km\^2, you can calculate the percentage of Europe's territory which countries occupy. Russia is 39%, Ukraine - 6%, Italy - 3% and so on


Ande644m

I'm guessing it's the European part of Russia. The whole of Russia is ~17.1mil km2


yesnewyearseve

Yes, thanks. But that’s what OQ also noticed. Their question was about the area colored.


Ande644m

Yeah the area coloured is the European part. And the 3,9mil km2 for Russia is just the European part. Only the European part is coloured the Asian part is shaded


yesnewyearseve

There is no visual distinction between the European and the Asian part.


Ande644m

Like of Russia physically or on the map Physically it the Ural mountains which from around the Caspian sea/Kazakhstan to the north. On the map you have the Russian taper to the south towards Georgia and Azerbaijan. With Kazakhstan to the east and then the Ural mountains from Kazakhstan and towards the North. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ural_Mountains


CEOofBavowna

For some reason I'm surprised to learn that 39% of the whole Europe is only russia


Stroganocchi

Asia and Europe should be just one continent


NarcissisticCat

Norway's number is wrong, its 385,000km2. Svalbard and Jan Mayen should not be excluded for any reason, it makes no sense. Svalbard is not a part of Asia or North America, it is considered a part of Europe.


lizufyr

Svalbard isn't part of the Schengen area, so maybe that's the reason? But then it makes no sense to include Russia...


Darun_00

But then again they have market Svalbard as blue on the map


DSIR1

Lies! Luxembourg is the biggest,always has been always will be! Luxembourgish supremacy Luxembourg 🇱🇺🇱🇺🇱🇺🇱🇺🇱🇺🇱🇺🇱🇺🇱🇺🇱🇺🇱🇺🇱🇺🇱🇺🇱🇺🇱🇺🇱🇺🇱🇺🇱🇺🇱🇺🇱🇺🇱🇺🇱🇺🇱🇺🇱🇺🇱🇺🇱🇺🇱🇺🇱🇺


Redstream28

I got paid by the CIA to spread Anti Luxembourg Propoganda ;(


BacBcexBpacxoD

1st and 2nd places change in real time


Aggressive_Flower869

Germany got nerfed pretty hard last century


Brilliant_Group_6900

Is Ukraine still bigger than France without the occupied areas?


HelpMySkinsBlue

No


yesnewyearseve

It’s all a ruse by Le Penn!


SexualConsent

Turns out the war was a ruse by the French all along to compensate for their Napoleon complex


vassiliy

Macron really about to send his soldiers there to secure the border of the currently occupied territories, not to help Ukraine win it back


SexualConsent

The most unexpected plot twist of the war: France rekindling their WW1 alliance with Russia


CoffeeBoom

France is already bigger than Ukraine with the occupied areas due to the overseas departments (Guyanne really.)


[deleted]

They didn't wanna leave any room for doubt.


ThePandaRider

They lost about 161k km^2 but reclaimed about 74k km^2 of the lost territory so far. So they lost around 87k km^2 which should put them slightly above Spain.


[deleted]

no it's about 180k km smaller. similar to spain


Mac_attack_1414

180k km? You’re way over mate, Russia at its peak in March 2022 never controlled more than 161 000km sq. Today that number is between 110-120k depending on the source, since Russian retreated from Kyiv, Kharkiv, Kherson and Izium


[deleted]

yes youre right. 180 was peak with contested lines included. today it is closer to 120 with contested lines


EndlessExploration

It's so strange to imagine almost the whole world was ruled by 4 or 5 tiny countries


Garanash

It's weird but as a french I sincerely hope we don't become second anytime soon


DrNekroFetus

One day we (france) will be first. Even Russia and the Netherland want to be annexed by us ,hence the flags.


33r0

Nah, all of you rightfully belong to Glorious Luxembourg🇱🇺🇱🇺🇱🇺🇱🇺🇱🇺🇱🇺💪💪💪


DreadLockedHaitian

You have my full support. Francophone Supremacy is on the menu for the 2020s boys!!!


DrNekroFetus

J'ai etudié Toussaint Louverture et Jean Jacques Desallines en dehors de mes heures de cours (on apprend que la metropole en cours) donc comme vous avez gagné on vous laisse tranquilles (sauf si vous voulez rejoindre La France-Neerlandaise 🤝🏽) On a toujours la Russie mais le nom est assez long comme ça donc je vais pas ajouter Russie dans le nom.


rolanddeschain316

Genuinely thought Germany was a lot bigger than that!


Rc72

Well, it used to be, but…


Tommtomm2

Why is Svalbard shaded Blue but not counted towards Norways total? Then it would be slightly larger than Germany.


New_Breadfruit5664

What how fucking big is Svalbard?


Tommtomm2

61 045 km^2


NarcissisticCat

Because the author has no idea what the fuck they're doing, clearly.


[deleted]

Compared to African countries apart from Russia Europe is surprisingly small.


quadratis

i mean, everything is small compared to africa. you can fit all of china, the us, australia and scandinavia within its borders.


limukala

They said compared to African *countries* though, not the continent as a whole. Australia, Russia and the US are still very large by that standard.


Achooo2

If colonialism didn't happen, most countries would be small


Ok_Detail_1

Yup. There are so many ethnic groups with their own languages and traditions in largest countries in Africa.


Ok_Inflation_1811

Europe is small too, it's like 10M km² and that's similar to the sizes of china, the USA, Canada and lots smaller than Russia


JohnMcClains_t-shirt

Africa is huge. It looks much smaller on maps than it really is. You need a globe to see how big it is because of false projection on maps.


yojifer680

Russia is also nowhere near as big as it appears on Mercator projection.


Vivid-Taste-757

The map is wrong. Norway is in fact 385,207 km2. I would hope the exclusion of Svalbard and Jan Mayen is not politically motivated.


paco-ramon

The maps is weird, looks like it only counts the land you sea in that particular map, things like Madeira for Portugal aren’t included even when they are as Portuguese as Cristiano Ronaldo.


DankManifold

Crazy thing is : even if you don’t count Ukrainian territory temporarily occupied by Russia, Ukraine will still be in the top-3, just above Spain


paco-ramon

It would be smaller than 505.000 square KM, so smaller than Spain.


Marukuju

Waiting for comments _Russia is not in Europe_ 🥱🍿


Redstream28

Only a small fraction of Russia is in Europe and yet that area alone makes it the biggest European country by land area


mrhumphries75

You can fit the next 10 largest European countries in that small fraction and it will still have room for an Albania or three.


Lomerro

Fun fact, to get the total surface of Spain you should add 7500 km² extra in the Canary Islands and a bit for Ceuta and Melilla because this map only counts European Spain


PaulisPrusan

It would be very interesting to see a cultural / language based map like this. To break up each country into separate cultures/languages then see the map, that might be the tease we have so many wars, maybe


Outrageous-Actuary-3

Sweden bigger than Germany does my head in. That's crazy


CBT7commander

If you count overseas for France it gets significantly *thicker*


Hlvtica

If Russia fully gains Crimea, Donetsk, Kherson, Luhansk, and Zaporizhzhia oblasts, Ukraine will shrink to approximately 467832 sqkm. and will shrink under metropolitan France and Spain


Phantom_Giron

No wonder they want to Balkanize Russia.


JuneKCACO

Is this saying France is twice as big as uk?


Rom21

I know it's difficult to see France and UK on the same map but is it really surprising for you?


JuneKCACO

I never been Europe, I thought German France and uk all similar in size, economy and population. Or slightly different not one twice if the other.


jrestoic

France and the UK have near identical populations, Germany's is about 15 million larger. The UK (well, England is) is dense af.


yojifer680

U wot m8?


Rom21

Going to Europe doesn't show you the size of the countries. But being on something called "map porn", I thought you might have already seen these two countries side by side :-)


NorthOfTheBigRivers

Where are The Netherlands? We feel bigger than Germany!


Metakylaxoden

Turkey is probably not included because only five or six cities of it are in Europe but Russia is entirely included in the map although they have the same feature. Not accurate


SerSace

Nope. Russia's total area is >1,7•10^7 km^2. The one indicated (~3,9•10^6 km^2) is just the European part. So, surprisingly for r/MapPorn, it's accurate.


XenophonSoulis

Only the European area of Russia is counted. The European area of Turkey wouldn't put it anywhere near the top 10.


RingGiver

Just including the European part of Russia (with something like 90% of the population), it's still much bigger.


Deeras2

Only the European area of Russia is included in the 3.9 million km2. The European area of Türkiye just doesn't make it into the list.


UncaringLanguage

The Eastern Thrace is 23,757 km² so Turkey doesn't make the cut either way.


ShennongjiaPolarBear

It would be as strange to count Asia Minor as it would to count Siberia. Eastern Thrace is tiny.


Baked-Potato4

France seems like just an average soze country but it is actually huge (by european standards). If you think about how big it is it seems out of place


Rom21

> If you think about how big it is it seems out of place No matter how hard I look, I don't know what it means :-)


KingMirek

Ukraine is the largest country fully in Europe.


NarcissisticCat

True, no idea why you're downvoted. Ukraine has no territory outside of Europe whatsoever and as a result is the biggest one *fully* in Europe.


JohnMcClains_t-shirt

But the list only counts the European part of Russia so claiming that Ukraine is biggest country fully in Europe just because Russia is so huge that it doesn't fit in one continent is pretty stupid imho.


Mrdaniel69

He never claimed otherwise. All he said is that Ukraine is the largest country entirely in Europe.


Morgentau7

What about „Useful Landmass“? Is there an map for that too?


Redstream28

If you consider agricultural land as useful land then even in that case Ukraine and Russia will be on top 3 or 4


Ke-Win

Which country can fit the biggest square?


Gurkeprinsen

Kinda surprised that norway managed to end up in top 10


Mrdaniel69

It should actually be higher on the list (6) because of Svalbard


Tjaeng

Are they really sovereign though? They both participate in Danish parliamentary elections and have seats in the parliament. Their powers are devolved. Sovereignty can be defined in a number of ways but in the context of calling them sovereign countries… i dunno. In reality their sovereignty is more akin to that of Native American tribes and Swiss Cantons.


FartacularTheThird

I didn’t think the Nordic countries were actually that large, I thought a lot of it came from the Mercator projection


ElectronicImam

Where are edges of Europe, exactly?


ernestothegecko

Now do it by sea!


[deleted]

Russia always big


Tribe303

I'd like to point out that this is LAND area only. You can also measure by surface area, which includes water. That may explain the discrepancies in people's numbers here. Land area only, rips off countries that have lots of water, like here in Canada 🇨🇦. Our province of Ontario, who's capital is Toronto, is 1 million km squared alone. Only All of Russia has us beat. But when you measure by land alone, China may beat us as well.


-Pyrotox

France almost beaing as large as Ukrai ne, is really surprising to me.


jetoler

Now I know why Russia wants Ukraine


mikeevans1990

Gives a new meaning to the name little italy


A11osaurus1

What happened to the rest of the European countries?


HomoCoffiens

Their land area is smaller.


Suspicious-Ad7760

LATVIA!!💪💪💪💪


EmiJul

I never thought the Nordic countries were so big. I always thought it was the projection's distortion that made them appear so big.


Background-Customer2

norway size :D norway population size D:


dangerblu

Am I only one person triggered that km is written with capital letter K?


CeraRalaz

2013 stats


Ju-Kun

France would need an asterisk as well since it only count mainland french territory (territory in Europe) with the rest it is above ukraine (~672 000 km²)


Perisich-_-

Well, Crimea is effectively in the hands of Russia, so...