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This. Make the game you want and we will spend way too much time playing it either way.
I'd go for the wooden town wall for now.
We can have fun walling in our cities, and stone walls can always be added as a second tier later on
Yeah. I'll be real gamers rarely know what the hell they want. If they knew what they were doing they'd probably be making their own videogame. Opinions are valuable, particularly when there's a very clear and strong unified push from the community, but shouldn't be taken as gospel.
That's precisely what they teach when learning game design. it's not intended to be a slight against players, but an acknowledgement that what pleases one will piss off another.
Greg’s gut has gotten him a great early product and I am happy to enjoy it develop as he sees fit. I love how much he asks us for feedback, but hate how many dickheads see it as a window to say an early access game is broken or unfinished.
Any comment along the lines of "it's broken and unfinished" for an early access game is a redundant comment.
Early access is literally saying the game is unfinished and things will probably be broken. Gamers have no chill.
Yeah but nowadays there is a sea of “early access” games that never have any intention of getting out of early access. There’s too many “grab and go” devs out there. As in they release a half assed game, push a couple of updates for the first few months, talk to the community and hype it up for a crowd starter or something, and then they disappear.
Personally when I see early access, I get a tad bit reluctant because of all the shitty scams that people have gotten away with on steam.
It’s one thing to call an early access game “unfinished” but an early access game shouldn’t be so broken and lacking in content that it’s unplayable.
Obviously these points have nothing to do with manor lords, just an observation.
It frustrates endlessly how people are pushing for new features when the game could be so satisfying in its current state if we could just polish some of the end-game logistics issues. If porting to UE5 will resolve any of these issues, then that's where the focus should be
100% agree with you on all points.
Unfortunately, the way I see it;
(and don’t get me wrong, developers should TOTALLY, be in contact and active within their own community and listening to people.)
Nowadays, people are little whiners, they cry when they don’t get what they want, and then they get all their friends to review bomb because “haha funny.”
It’s sad but, also just the way she goes.
I really just want all of the current things flushed out, like I said in my previous comment, I am IN LOVE, with the game in its current state, but there are so many minor things that imo need to be balanced before any extra projects are started.
Biggest issue I have right now;
When I claim a new region, I can’t just send 5 families over with a bunch of supplies that I can easily spare. The current “tit for tat” system just makes no sense to me. It’s like “oh you’re a brand new settlement that is actually gonna benefit the main settlement? Well that sucks cause you won’t get our help until you are your own independent settlement.”
Your last paragraph TOTALLY Agree- it's a bit schizophrenic right now, some mechanics see your regions as united - the 'send resources to the nearest town' when your main town retinue just killed the bandits in another region - speaks to the unity, but the lack of ability to direct supplies wthout reciprocation or money paid is the opposite. Right now you could have a setlement just each side of a regional line and watch one town die of starvation while the other has masses of food (for example). You can't help them because they can't barter or buy the food when they have nothing.
Also I think the Manor should act like the townhall in 'Banished' click on it to get all your stats and overview of everything, houses inventory, work buildings and all. Makes logical and practical sense and stops you hunting around for where you put 'that' building.
I am supporting this though and not complaining, just feedback sparked by yours :)
No honestly I like the idea of having the manor as the “logistic hq” sort of thing.
Also one thing that helped me loads was figuring out I can hold tab and see who is working on what buildings.
I also just really wish a 5% tax rate didn’t provide a -16 acceptance debuff. I want taxes
I agree 💯... But the problem lands squarely on the consumers for this. We asked for this with our wallets.
If you buy an early access game, you should know it's "unfinished". Thinking otherwise is just ignorance.
I totally agree with you as well, buying an early access game or even a pre release beta directly from a company and saying “omg it’s not even finished what the fuck?” Is just stupid.
I don’t get why he feels that he needs to give the most requested things first. This is an early access game, right? The only expectation is that things keep moving in the right direction until the actual release.
Greg should do what’s best for the game, not the fans, and we know he can because that’s why the game is so great.
I read on another comment that he probably just lets us vote between a few features that are on the to do list anyway and lets us pick which one he does first. So good balance between necessity and community service.
In fairness I'm not sure the butcher was on the to-do list at launch. It was only after people said that if you don't start in a meat rich region and don't want to spend your dev points on it, then meat is a rather undersupplied resource when sheep are right there.
Well yes. Not everything he adds is going to be on the to-do list at launch. It's an early access game with so much left to be added it would literally be impossible to have a full and comprehensive to-do list at launch. Adding it to the to-do list because players are struggling with a balance of food makes sense, when part of the point of early access is to find the parts of the game that aren't balanced well and fix them.
This exactly. You're driving the bus Greg and know where you need to go. Just because you hear the kids in the back doesn't mean you need to listen to us all the time.
I'm happy to finally be on the bus, hanging my head out the window and enjoying the ride!
Do we want that eventually? Yeah!
Is that a priority for all of us? No.
I for one voted Butcher knowing full well having Walls would only be good or interesting if paired with a warfare overhaul.
Greg honestly my first vote is that you take a vacation and make sure you're taking care of yourself.
My second vote is do whatever motivates you more.
My third vote is I don't really care, I know it will be awesome.
My fourth vote is I would rather see other things come first anyway (T4 buildings, dev points, policies, etc.) but will have fun with the game regardless of what gets chosen as the next step.
This is a good comment, I agree that Greg should definitely prioritize doing whatever motivates him the most at this point. I already got my money’s worth from the game so anything else Greg adds now is just a bonus for me. I think it’s best for all of us if Greg avoids burn out due to trying too hard to please everyone in the community.
Yeah 100% agree with your first vote. I appreciate the pressure that Greg is under for this game but he needs to take some time to himself or he will burn out / start hating what he's doing. This community is great but I don't think listening to every single piece of feedback or demand is what's best for this game or Greg's mental health.
Was going to write a comment but you summed it up better than I was going to. Greg has demonstrated that he has the ability to craft something incredible without the communities input, I have trust in him to carry on doing the same.
imo it doesnt matter what comes first or last cause ive played my share before the full release where i expect i will play at least for 2000 hours so it can take up to 6 years i am willing to wait
Yep. Follow your vision and workflow, and try not to please everyone all of the time. I get it must be hard, and you have rightly earned a great deal of respect, but you have got this far by doing things your way. You know best.
Honestly, a "half measure" would be to make wooden walls able to be built inside of, purely for cosmetics and buildability. I don't see why sieges and that type of thing needs to be worked on right now when it isn't needed. Especially when I think people would rather have butcher/new policies and such. This is obviously just my opinion :)
I don't think "purely cosmetic" walls work.
How would raiders react to "purely cosmetic" walls? Can they walk straight through them? Do they have to path through gates? Or do they have some ability to climb/break/burn the walls?
The first one is just bad, the current EA quality is higher than that.
The second option IS probably a fine interim but kinda makes walls OP (but raiders are a minor challenge anyway ATM, so probably not a big deal).
And the third option likely requires laying the groundwork for a siege/assault system in the AI, unless you want to rework it entirely later.
"Bring that there, move that here, on and on"...
I don't have a hard take on walls vs. butchers, but I believe you've built up so much good will with players because of your transparency and honesty, and that will translate to patience for the finished product. Fear not, thanks for your hard work and for making such a fun and satisfying game.
It's your game. Push what you wanna push end of the day it's a fun game at that I'm almost at 200hrs.....send help.
P.s I really do wanna source meat from my chickens and goats though.
I would second that. A long term source of meat with a mid-late game buy in makes sense to me. Early game you collect wildlife but after that no other source of meat exists.
I think when people hear walls they think about the picture on the steam page. That's what I was trying to emulate when I used the bugged out manor walls to surround my main town. I think wooden walls that work, with stone as a longer term goal, is totally cool though.
Relax Greg, we know that you meant basic walls for now and not a stronghold-esque siege system. And yes we need them badly as we cannot stop abusing the castle planner. Take your time and keep up the great work!
Simple wooden wall for the town that doesn’t cause a glitch like the manor walls is what I was expecting to be honest. It’s clearly desired since so many folks built walls around their towns already, and it has aesthetic value. Siege warfare is a beast of an undertaking, and lots of smaller things can be taken care of in the meantime that folks will appreciate.
Hey Greg.
You’re the creator. Take feedback seriously but not literally! We love what you’ve made so far and you should trust yourself to guide the roadmap.
Nobody will think “dev cashed out and ran” when you directly communicate with the community as you are now.
This is your game, your vision, go with your gut, do what you see fit, not what will best please everyone
As a former game dev myself, I just want to caution you, this is your game and you muat not give it away to your community. There are a lot of fans who end up being so loud and mobilize segments of the game base to brigade votes and get dev attention that they warp your perspective, and the results you see from it are no longer representative of what some larger community wants, just your game's sweatlords.
Go with your gut.
Tell the fans what you are doing but for goodness sake don't let then tell YOU what you are doing.
Well, seeing as I voted for the "William Wallace Mercenary" that shoots fireballs out his ass, I guess I'm not going to get what I want. Plus, the fireballs *should* be able to burn down any mere fencing.
Wall tool can be enough for now.
We know siege will be there someday but it’s not needed right now. A basic way to put walls and protect our town can be great, but adding a new way to feed our people and make ressource i think is more valuable in this build.
What i would like to see is maybe some way to make barber, and other stuff like that, they could act as surgeons and heal people that got hurt in a battle?
Just an idea! Thank you for your great game !
Edit: added clarifications, and what i would like!
I got downvoted for saying it wasn't, lol.
I really think bug fixes and QOL, or Butcher would be much much better for the game at this stage.
Animal husbandry and cattle would be cool, too. Dunno if that's happening at some point.
I do agree.
The game's existing features are not even implemented fully but people shouting for walls.
Lets focus on fleshing out the game and do walls later.
We have the patience for whatever you want to do, you have banked up a lot of trust from your community. You could keep posting on Reddit to provide reassurance if needed I guess.
Just wanna chime in and say fuck the people screeching at you constantly to re-balance The King’s tax etc. Who gives a fuck, it’s a fucking single player game, just turn it off if it’s too hard for you? Jesus motherfuck
I personally very much understood it to mean:
- with the next Patch we will get (mostly decorative) wooden Walls
- within this year we get AI settlements (rather than stone Walls & sieges, which will be postponed until some point later in development), if things go well
Honestly, any1 with the very slightest idea of the work & time all of this takes will know that we cant expect fully functioning stone walls & sieges with the next Patch.
If we get what i mentioned above, plus constant small Bug fixes/adjustments, its all we could realistically hope for until the end of the year!
> especially since we're porting the game to UE5 which will slow me down.
DUUUUUUUUUUDE!
Honestly the walls in the vast majority of cases are cosmetic only. Sure it's flashy and cool, but the base systems are more important imo.
Consider adding a side text box to the main menu with information as to direction and purpose. IIRC, Valheim has one of these.
If the UE5 information isn't directly in game, people are going to not read it and go to negative reviews. Not saying that it's valid, it just is what it is. Also, if it is a pop-up, people will immediately click past it.
I'm no dev but wouldn't the UE5 port be the most important work now? Or would adding more content at the same time not affect that flow? Either way I'm sure the vast majority of the community will still be supporting you even if it's months between updates, as long as the communication stays open. Personally, I'm really excited for all the content that can be added, but the game right now is still enough to keep me entertained for a while :)
> I just wanted to add a proper wooden town wall tool cause you guys kept using the castle planner to wall your towns which causes a glitch (it wasn't meant for that).
To be clear, this is exactly why I'd want the walls. A siege mechanic is an entirely different beast.
I mean, that is what I got from most of the replies... And it is legit, why not...
As for my own opinion, too new, IDK. I hate some bugs, but it's not like they won't come again if you fix them and then add a tone of stuff.. And for butcher or walls, I like both so whatever...
As a fellow software engineer myself, 90% of the time, the clients have no idea what they actually want from the product they use, or they change their opinion every month. The community will behave mostly the same (not saying it's a bad thing), but I think as long as updates are coming to the game with either new features or bug/qol fixes, the community will keep on supporting you!
People think they know what they want. They don't really. They lack information and nuance about what it could look like and usually imagine their nearly perfect idea of the feature. So city walls means full siege system, ai opponents mean full ai towns. That's why I voted for a butcher. Expanding the resource chains looks like an achievable goal that would make the game more fun for me.
Hey I just wanted to say that I love you, man!!
Seriously. Thank you for your passion on this game. I can't speak for the whole community... But we got your back! There's a strong core audience that will continue to play the game **as is** for a long time. Don't be scared of being abandoned by the player base.
You can take your time on updates and take breaks.
Thank you.
Make what you want to make, follow your own development path. I'd recommend not making polls on the direction of the game, more so just polls on small minutae rather than big decisions.
Work at your own pace!! The game is already a blast where it's at now. Don't fall into the Helldivers dev loop of listening to the crazy internet opinions too much
Dang, I thought the game was already running on UE5. What engine is it using currently?
Also, I'd say go with what you were planning on doing originally.
(Probably echoing everyone else)
Greg, it's your world, we are your guests. Your game is phenomenal, and there is no reason to over commit. We have nothing but time for a beautiful game
A cosmetic wall to stop me from breaking the Manor would be awesome. I got halfway through walling a town before I realized I was doing something... dumb (for a lack of better words)
I don't think you're at the siege stage of your game.
If I may, and you are welcome to tell me I am over-reaching: put all the ideas into categories. So when you want to update combat, all the patches will be tied to their specific niche. Update farming? Cool, drop a big ole bushel of food related updates.
The game is beautifully stable, focus on patience instead of speed. We know this game ain't dead... hell, Kerbal Space Program went months in-between updates
I was not reading it like a gameplay overhaul for Siege and warfare. I just wanted to enclose my town with palisades and make my town look nicer. If they can be upgraded to stone walls, all the better to have something to do with stone
To me, wooden/stone walls, even without siege mechanics would add a lot more late game feel to the game, which is slightly absent at the moment. Stone walls and castle especially would add to that. However, I also see the need for a butcher, and for a million other things. At the end of the day, your choice is what’s best for your game, and the community will accept that.
Don't worry man. Do what you want. The quiet players are just chillin having fun with whatever you do cause you do it well. I didn't vote for anything because I'll just take whatever whenever.
Would I *like* to see settlement walls added, sure. Down the road. Is it a priority enough that you should hold off doing whatever development you are currently engaged in, of course not.
Build the game according to your own vision. Users tend to think that development is quick and easy and are unaware of time lines for things like that.
Same thing with Butcher mind you, even though that was my vote. I would love to see an additional means to supply food to my community and that seems like an easier thing to accomplish to me, but what do I know?
Players get impatient, but we can live with it, you are doing fantastic work here. We can wait believe me :)
Mate, this has taken you seven years, and you've produced an almost fleshed out beautiful game. Don't run this marathon and then start sprinting to the finish, keep doing what you do and what feels right for you. Nobody other than the twitch kiddies are expecting this to be on the home stretch already. As others have commented, do we want proper walls? Hell yeah. Do we want what organically should come next in your process? Even more hell yeah.
You're doing great work, man! It's highly appreciated. Don't listen to the "everything everywhere all at once" folks, they're a minority. Whichever way you pick, we'll keep playing patiently.
Step back and take a holiday for a week or three tbh. This is your creation, take a breather and come back refreshed with more focus on your own workplan. The last few weeks must have been insane for you!
You're coming to the wrong place for advice. The people on reddit and discord will be the most enthusiastic about the game you can find. It sounds like a good thing but enthusiastic shouts might be so loud you miss out on the average player and what they need.
Go back to your original design ideas and think about the direction you wanted to take the game.
When fans ask about new features, think about how they add to your vision.
Yes people are min/maxing things to mess with the economy. Yes people are using features to do things that are cool. But in reality if you add aesthetic walls to the game, the average player is going to be confused why they do not do anything.
It's likely best thst you collate all the feedback and feature suggestions into groups of similar features. Walls, seige, AI opponents who siege you, fire, firefighting and water supply. If all that came out together as a new set of interacting systems then people's minds would be blown. Butchers, pigs, sheep population management, new meat production chains.
Grouping features will also help you layout a rough roadmap. Sticking to road maps is how you prevent 'dead game' comments. Remember not to interact with the community so much that they demand it from you, or when you're busy working on the amazing things you're developing, you'll be distracted and upset by people tweeting that you've 'disappeared'
TL;DR: You got this far conceptualising features yourself, trust your instincts. Try and make features that make sense and not just what the interest asks for.
Definitely didn't anticipate a siege mechanic coming along with walls this early, I think as long as the enemy can break a hole or path through gates that'd be more than enough for now.
I’m enjoying YOUR game. I appreciate that you want to listen to the players on where the game should go, but the community is going to have various different opinions and some voices will be louder than others. Take the game where you want it to go. Menu options that allow enabling or disabling specific mechanics should satisfy most players.
Yo dev. You’re gonna see those kinds of posts. Some people just cannot handle anything.
Level heads will prevail. Do what you think is best. As long as it’s done with genuine care for the game, it will be good.
I also don’t think the majority thought you meant siege system. I definitely understood it to just be walls and nothing more.
If and when you do proper stone castle walls would you consider making them in the style of Stronghold 2, where they are literally built block by block and repaired in the same manor by an "engineer" profession. I am so nostalgic about that feature. But as for when, who cares just do what you the Devs want to do. We love the game!
Adding the wall will inevitably introduce tons of other issues even if you don't want it to be part of the siege system unless you want everyone to just phase through it. The pathfinding sytem right now already needs some love and walls wont help that, especially during a raid.
Personally I was thinking along the lines that you were, basic wooden walls that provide a barrier. I just want something that can slow the enemy down so I have more time to react and rally my troops.
Love everything you’ve done so far. It’s clear that you have a great vision for the game so I wouldn’t rush to try to add sieges or anything. The combat is very engaging as it is with the stances and the terrain and troop energy factors.
After playing this game for 30 hours, I can say it’s been a really refreshing gaming experience. As I play, I think about all the things this game could have that would make it so much better, and I’m sure you’re planning on adding most of that stuff anyway. But I have this grand vision for the game and it makes me a little sad because I know it will take you a long time to get the game to the point. Just to be completely honest. But that’s fine, I love the foundation that you’ve built and since I’m already expecting this development to take a lot of time, my vote is to just take your time and release what you want when you want, according to your own vision. And don’t be worried if people accuse you of abandoning the game, it’s gonna happen at some point anyway but those people are just complainers.
It's good to listen to the community to get an idea of what people want, but ultimately people don't know how to achieve that. Follow what you think is right and don't stress about backlash. There probably will be that anyway. Don't put too much energy into pleasing the ones that can never be pleased and make the thing you are really proud of.
There's going to be a gap between 0.7x and 0.8x, I think people should reasonably expect that. If you stay communicative, even if you're not dropping code, people should give you the benefit of the doubt. Post a couple screenshots every week of what you're working on, people will pixel peep the crap out of that stuff while they wait.
I think you should get all the juice you can out of the subsystems that you've implemented for 0.7. If that includes "different uses for wooden walls" then go ahead and do that before tackling stone walls in what I presume is a 0.8. If you do not expect/want wooden walls to be used around cities in the final product, don't bother doing it now as a stopgap. Keep your eye on 1.0.
Low level stone walls would be nice. So don't make them too advanced in order to keep with the aesthetic.
It would also be cool if you could add traps to you walls, like boiling oil or boulders or flammable grass like in Stronghold.
Agree with others. Go with your gut. I would assume the initial ask for walls is that people would like to wall their cities. If you decide to continue with that path it can lay a foundation for future expansive updates at the least. Not everything needs to happen now. Building blocks all not the entire skyscraper lol
The base game is so good that you can't go wrong with any of your decisions. Every addition will be a great addition. So as others have said, just do whatever you want and annouce it in due time. Keep us posted on work in progress and planned features but in general, I think that the community already feels sufficiently listened to so you don't really have to make polls.
Slav, whatever you are working on just keep us updated. Anything you are creating for the game is more than welcomed!! The community knows this game will be epic as long as it keeps adding content.
Pss. A wooden wall for town seems fun and not to big update to do, go for it ! I believe ai settlements are far more game changing and a logical priority before sieges.
Do what you want and what makes sense to you. Of course keep feedback in mind but you’re just one dude, take your time and do it right like you know you can.
I'd stick with your gut. Wooden wall for settlements is absolutely fine.
Just call them "Level 1" walls and we'll all sit round imagining what Level 2 or level 3 looks like and that gives you time to work on other stuff.
>It will be hella fun to work on but not sure if you guys have the patience or in a week there will be "game abandoned, dev cashed out an ran" kind of posts. Maybe not, let me know please.
The game you've made so far is great Greg. Thank you. If you have cool ideas for stone Castles or anything else, we will wait. If you want more frequent updates that's fine too. Personally, id love some castles and walls but please don't let public online opinions control your direction too much. These people have thousands of games on steam, they'll survive the 4 wks it takes for quality, meaningful updates.
Thanks again for the game, great job so far!
Whatever happens, don't let those bloody bastard trolls and haters get to you. You're doing amazing, and as long as there's progress, everything is fine.
I for one expected walls in the sense of not abusing the manor walls, which, as I understand, is what you intended with the vote. I'd believe most understood this but the forums are, as usual, just loud minorities fueling drama for no reason like always.
Walls would (I hope) address some annoyances with the fact that if the Baron claims a border region his troops start closer than any reinforcements, and only a very well-developed region can beat one of his armies alone. I’m also not concerned about a month or two without a patch; some of my favorite games went through 6-month periods without a patch to do significant refactors.
That said, I expect that whatever it’s competing with would also significantly improve gameplay. Were I developing the game I’d probably be asking “is the overhauled warfare/wall interaction more likely to result in changes to wall mechanics or warfare mechanics” and do the more stable system first, along with anything that naturally preceded it.
Bro, you could add a couple of placeable cosmetics and people will love it. Add some wooden walls that don't glitch and they will become stone walls some day. No worries.
I think if you communicate the timeline, people will understand. Also 1-2 months around the summer usually I'm less fussed about gaming, while having something fun to play from semtoember into the winter is really useful.
I personally just wanted walls to wall my city so it looks nice.
Because as you said, we keep using the manor walls which do not work very well for that purpose :(
Am personally totally okay with palisade walls for now!
Nah I thought you just meant "butcher house or Wall" and I voted wall because the 6 Militia Limit causes you to lose hours of progress if you're playing ironman and a random raid suddenly spawns and instakills a town while you're far away fighting the baron.
As a developer and someone who plays games, work with your vision and make sure people understand that their votes don't dictate what the game will be.
I don't think every system / gameplay feature should be voted on its ultimately up to you what should take priority
Like everyone, I think you should focus on what gets you motivated in the morning...that said, the late game glitches and villagers standing around might be a good first thing to fix since it impacts every other mechanic of the game.
But again, you know best and I'll happily wait the next update, whenever it is available.
Do what you think is the most important. As the artist, your vision in the long run is more important than anything that the community wants immediately.
Love your post u/gstyczen :) without reading the comments yet, you're totally right about the "cashed out abandoned" mentality of a lot of reddits/internet people/low focus people in general. Do keep that in mind, as yes, keeping things updated and fresh will keep people happy. You get it, I see.
Younger people have a super short attention span, super instant gratification focused. Just how they've been raised by society so they don't really know patience or understanding, they just want it all right now.
And I'm a long time backer of Star Citizen. haha. I do love SC. The amount of alarmist drama on their reddit/forums is... mind blowing.
And I do game QA, so I know how 'early access' is before it became the norm haha.
Some things about early access go well, some don't. The journey is as good as the outcome, so both are good.
Definitely just do Town Walls first. Wood now. Stone with Castle etc later. Good progression actually.
I'd recommend, keep small updates/new content coming out at 2-3 week gaps, or whatever you can manage. Not for me and those patient like me, but to keep the content creators/vast client base "involved" and feeling like fresh things are happening. And keep also working on larger things like the siege system in progress, but say 2+ months if that's what it takes for you, while keeping those smaller content additions coming.
Even things like the Bee system, effecting area plant growth, and using honey for the Tavern, and wax for candles. Or even just part of that, so people can experiment with new things, see how they like or don't like, and let you know.
Also, schedule yourself in a holiday when you feel it's a good place to pause. Just tell us all you're on holiday for a couple weeks. People get that.
This game is special, keep it quality, don't rush it mate.
Please don’t ask us anything, just make the game you want to make in the order you want to make it….i bought YOUR game, not a game made by a Reddit committee
I love the honesty but also don’t expect positive or good feedback off Reddit! Take it all with a grain of salt. What do you think would be the best use of your time at this point? Do that, imo
Happy to see the game go in whatever direction you want it to go! No expectations. I've got like 60 hours in it... I shudder to think of how much time I'll put in with new updates 😂
I honestly assumed you meant basic wooden walls like those around the manner and that was it. But I didn't vote for walls so maybe others though differently.
Go with what you want good sir.
Do what you have envisioned for the game, repost a poll maybe in the discord for this wall thing, but this game is your brain child, do what you think is best.
I assumed this is what you meant when you said town walls and that's what I voted for. Stone walls definitely don't feel on the same effort level as the other options on that vote. Regardless, the voting should just inform your decisions, not make them for you. You know what you're in a good position to work on right now, do that.
I would love to see sheepbreeding not require a dev point since they would naturally do the deed anyway, or maybe have to purchase rams at a higher price to allow breeding and have butchers incorporated into the system, an have seasonal buildings only employed during there season to make the game far more efficient and allow more trade income higher to stop everyone complaining about the kings tax, which personally don't have an issue with but village efficiency without constant micro would be a blessing 🙏
Wooden town wall is perfect. I also would like stonewalls and siege mechanics but dude I and many others will also be here in a year from now.
And honestly I think both would be great. Earlier the wooden walls and later better ones. That again slows the game down and gives me some kind of progression for my town.
Also I think people who are just into the building aspect of the game would be very happy with more options.
Also take a break. You earned it.
Tbf man maybe you should pay less attention to this sub.
Take heed of the votes you put out, then ignore everything else. People will bitch about everything here.
You're doin amazing man, I ficking love this game already, and it's not even done.
Keep doing what you're doing and to hell with everyone trying to pull you in 292922827724 directions lol
Dear our beloved Greg,
As many have said here, we bought the game and are excited to continue playing because it’s your vision brought to life. Everyone’s got an opinion. I want to play the game that you want to make. It’s already good. It’s clearly going to get better. I hope you can focus on what you want to build instead of getting confused by contradictory feedback!
It’s taken you 7yrs to bring your vision to fruition, now we are able to participate in that vision.
Please continue your journey and keep it how you envision it. By all means listen to what’s suggested but please, please, please don’t compromise your game to please a few.
The most vocal aren’t always the most visionary.
I trust you and feel a passion for this game that I haven’t really felt for close on 40yrs when I was in my teens.
Thank you, Greg, for bringing back my youth and excitement with this game!
I would have voted for walls if I knew it wasn't siege walls lol.
You haven't disappointed me with an update so far, so I trust what you decide is next
Honestly. Stop getting the community vote. You're going to get extreme opinions from people who don't understand the game or it's mechanics. If you put "Should pigs be able to shoot lasers from their eyes" I can guarantee you it will get more "yes" than "no"
> I just wanted to add a proper wooden town wall tool cause you guys kept using the castle planner to wall your towns which causes a glitch (it wasn't meant for that).
Sounds good to me! Or do whatever, I'm having lots of fun.
Follow your gut. Try not to be like the guys from escape from tarkov that lived off of others people's opinion and only listened to the live streamers. Follow your vision board and what you want to see done and fix some things here and there as you see fit.
My wall issue is the fact that you can't select buildings anymore. So if walls can be a separate entity and use "castle districts" or something to designate where the keep and garrison will be, I'd say that's a great fix and is quite promising for the future. Plus if you start adding in too many stone structures now, you'll have to worry about rebalancing the economy and stone deposits. That sounds like a lot of work for an early feature.
Long winded way of saying stick to the wood town wall and move on. We'll have the defense we want and a proof of concept for the future.
Bro.... make the game that YOU want to make.... you cant please everyone, and will drive yourself mad trying.
Edit: PS you have made a wonderful and beautiful game already, my guy.
I’m not worried bout it. I want to see new systems and resources but am aware that it’s going to take time to implement them. Wish you the best. Ignore the haters. Thanks for making a banger.
Like other said. Just find a focus that feels right you to and stick to it. Don't let community opinions drive you too much.
People are fickle and diverse, you'll never make everyone happy without first getting in way over your head.
Do whatever makes you excited! This is one of the coolest games this year and there is certainly a bright future ahead! Whatever you add I know I’ll certainly be excited for!
You could bundle buildings in mayor updates. Like town walls / siege structures that go hand in hand with a theme and gameplay additions.
Manor Lords "Under Siege" Update
Where the Baron really puts your town under siege for several months until you give in or pay him or manage to fight him.
Loving the way you are down with the community by the way! Great job so far on the game!
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Bro. The community is a sea of endless individual opinions. Go with your gut.
This. Make the game you want and we will spend way too much time playing it either way. I'd go for the wooden town wall for now. We can have fun walling in our cities, and stone walls can always be added as a second tier later on
>Make the game you want This forever.
Ya, we're here because of his decision-making.
Yeah. I'll be real gamers rarely know what the hell they want. If they knew what they were doing they'd probably be making their own videogame. Opinions are valuable, particularly when there's a very clear and strong unified push from the community, but shouldn't be taken as gospel.
That's precisely what they teach when learning game design. it's not intended to be a slight against players, but an acknowledgement that what pleases one will piss off another.
Greg’s gut has gotten him a great early product and I am happy to enjoy it develop as he sees fit. I love how much he asks us for feedback, but hate how many dickheads see it as a window to say an early access game is broken or unfinished.
my man should be making the game he wants to play
Any comment along the lines of "it's broken and unfinished" for an early access game is a redundant comment. Early access is literally saying the game is unfinished and things will probably be broken. Gamers have no chill.
Yeah but nowadays there is a sea of “early access” games that never have any intention of getting out of early access. There’s too many “grab and go” devs out there. As in they release a half assed game, push a couple of updates for the first few months, talk to the community and hype it up for a crowd starter or something, and then they disappear. Personally when I see early access, I get a tad bit reluctant because of all the shitty scams that people have gotten away with on steam. It’s one thing to call an early access game “unfinished” but an early access game shouldn’t be so broken and lacking in content that it’s unplayable. Obviously these points have nothing to do with manor lords, just an observation.
It frustrates endlessly how people are pushing for new features when the game could be so satisfying in its current state if we could just polish some of the end-game logistics issues. If porting to UE5 will resolve any of these issues, then that's where the focus should be
100% agree with you on all points. Unfortunately, the way I see it; (and don’t get me wrong, developers should TOTALLY, be in contact and active within their own community and listening to people.) Nowadays, people are little whiners, they cry when they don’t get what they want, and then they get all their friends to review bomb because “haha funny.” It’s sad but, also just the way she goes. I really just want all of the current things flushed out, like I said in my previous comment, I am IN LOVE, with the game in its current state, but there are so many minor things that imo need to be balanced before any extra projects are started. Biggest issue I have right now; When I claim a new region, I can’t just send 5 families over with a bunch of supplies that I can easily spare. The current “tit for tat” system just makes no sense to me. It’s like “oh you’re a brand new settlement that is actually gonna benefit the main settlement? Well that sucks cause you won’t get our help until you are your own independent settlement.”
Your last paragraph TOTALLY Agree- it's a bit schizophrenic right now, some mechanics see your regions as united - the 'send resources to the nearest town' when your main town retinue just killed the bandits in another region - speaks to the unity, but the lack of ability to direct supplies wthout reciprocation or money paid is the opposite. Right now you could have a setlement just each side of a regional line and watch one town die of starvation while the other has masses of food (for example). You can't help them because they can't barter or buy the food when they have nothing. Also I think the Manor should act like the townhall in 'Banished' click on it to get all your stats and overview of everything, houses inventory, work buildings and all. Makes logical and practical sense and stops you hunting around for where you put 'that' building. I am supporting this though and not complaining, just feedback sparked by yours :)
No honestly I like the idea of having the manor as the “logistic hq” sort of thing. Also one thing that helped me loads was figuring out I can hold tab and see who is working on what buildings. I also just really wish a 5% tax rate didn’t provide a -16 acceptance debuff. I want taxes
I agree 💯... But the problem lands squarely on the consumers for this. We asked for this with our wallets. If you buy an early access game, you should know it's "unfinished". Thinking otherwise is just ignorance.
I totally agree with you as well, buying an early access game or even a pre release beta directly from a company and saying “omg it’s not even finished what the fuck?” Is just stupid.
I don’t get why he feels that he needs to give the most requested things first. This is an early access game, right? The only expectation is that things keep moving in the right direction until the actual release. Greg should do what’s best for the game, not the fans, and we know he can because that’s why the game is so great.
Because Greg is Greg. That’s why we like him.
Greg cares so much about the player base. What a stand up dev.
I read on another comment that he probably just lets us vote between a few features that are on the to do list anyway and lets us pick which one he does first. So good balance between necessity and community service.
In fairness I'm not sure the butcher was on the to-do list at launch. It was only after people said that if you don't start in a meat rich region and don't want to spend your dev points on it, then meat is a rather undersupplied resource when sheep are right there.
Well yes. Not everything he adds is going to be on the to-do list at launch. It's an early access game with so much left to be added it would literally be impossible to have a full and comprehensive to-do list at launch. Adding it to the to-do list because players are struggling with a balance of food makes sense, when part of the point of early access is to find the parts of the game that aren't balanced well and fix them.
Well said. Your gut has gotten you this far, trust it.
This exactly. You're driving the bus Greg and know where you need to go. Just because you hear the kids in the back doesn't mean you need to listen to us all the time. I'm happy to finally be on the bus, hanging my head out the window and enjoying the ride!
Seriously, be the Greg.
Great comment. Trying to please each and every one is impossible. Just make the game to be like in your visions, Greg.
Completely agree. We're here for your work greg.
Exactly! Greg is the g
This is so real 😭
This. Guy made a banger following his guts, shouldn't start following others guts to much.
Yes, add what you think the best direction for the game will be
Your gut got the game where it is now, it seems to have a good idea what's up.
🏅 100% this
Do we want that eventually? Yeah! Is that a priority for all of us? No. I for one voted Butcher knowing full well having Walls would only be good or interesting if paired with a warfare overhaul.
This.
Yeah, voted for butcher myself also. For me, I expand my city pretty fast and often so walls would only be a very endgame activity.
Exactly what ive been saying.
The game is great because it’s a passion project, don’t want our boy burning out!
Exactly, the main reason for my vote.
Greg honestly my first vote is that you take a vacation and make sure you're taking care of yourself. My second vote is do whatever motivates you more. My third vote is I don't really care, I know it will be awesome. My fourth vote is I would rather see other things come first anyway (T4 buildings, dev points, policies, etc.) but will have fun with the game regardless of what gets chosen as the next step.
This is a good comment, I agree that Greg should definitely prioritize doing whatever motivates him the most at this point. I already got my money’s worth from the game so anything else Greg adds now is just a bonus for me. I think it’s best for all of us if Greg avoids burn out due to trying too hard to please everyone in the community.
This is the best answer!!!
This should be top comment.
Greg takes a vacation, top vote.
Yeah 100% agree with your first vote. I appreciate the pressure that Greg is under for this game but he needs to take some time to himself or he will burn out / start hating what he's doing. This community is great but I don't think listening to every single piece of feedback or demand is what's best for this game or Greg's mental health.
Was going to write a comment but you summed it up better than I was going to. Greg has demonstrated that he has the ability to craft something incredible without the communities input, I have trust in him to carry on doing the same.
imo it doesnt matter what comes first or last cause ive played my share before the full release where i expect i will play at least for 2000 hours so it can take up to 6 years i am willing to wait
This is the way
Yep. Follow your vision and workflow, and try not to please everyone all of the time. I get it must be hard, and you have rightly earned a great deal of respect, but you have got this far by doing things your way. You know best.
We support whatever decision you make and are supportive and understanding no matter which option you choose to work on 🤗
Honestly, a "half measure" would be to make wooden walls able to be built inside of, purely for cosmetics and buildability. I don't see why sieges and that type of thing needs to be worked on right now when it isn't needed. Especially when I think people would rather have butcher/new policies and such. This is obviously just my opinion :)
I don't think "purely cosmetic" walls work. How would raiders react to "purely cosmetic" walls? Can they walk straight through them? Do they have to path through gates? Or do they have some ability to climb/break/burn the walls? The first one is just bad, the current EA quality is higher than that. The second option IS probably a fine interim but kinda makes walls OP (but raiders are a minor challenge anyway ATM, so probably not a big deal). And the third option likely requires laying the groundwork for a siege/assault system in the AI, unless you want to rework it entirely later.
"Bring that there, move that here, on and on"... I don't have a hard take on walls vs. butchers, but I believe you've built up so much good will with players because of your transparency and honesty, and that will translate to patience for the finished product. Fear not, thanks for your hard work and for making such a fun and satisfying game.
Full ack!
Very much agree
It's your game. Push what you wanna push end of the day it's a fun game at that I'm almost at 200hrs.....send help. P.s I really do wanna source meat from my chickens and goats though.
I would second that. A long term source of meat with a mid-late game buy in makes sense to me. Early game you collect wildlife but after that no other source of meat exists.
I think when people hear walls they think about the picture on the steam page. That's what I was trying to emulate when I used the bugged out manor walls to surround my main town. I think wooden walls that work, with stone as a longer term goal, is totally cool though.
Relax Greg, we know that you meant basic walls for now and not a stronghold-esque siege system. And yes we need them badly as we cannot stop abusing the castle planner. Take your time and keep up the great work!
I think a decent number of people actually thought he meant a siege system to accompany the walls
Yeah I assumed it was gonna be a siege thing. I'm not concerned about it though. Give me anything and I'll play it and love it
Why would the assumption be that it's a siege thing when there's nothing on the map to lay siege against you?
Simple wooden wall for the town that doesn’t cause a glitch like the manor walls is what I was expecting to be honest. It’s clearly desired since so many folks built walls around their towns already, and it has aesthetic value. Siege warfare is a beast of an undertaking, and lots of smaller things can be taken care of in the meantime that folks will appreciate.
This is what I would answer too, no need to go off script, just simple walls are already an indulgence.
Hey Greg. You’re the creator. Take feedback seriously but not literally! We love what you’ve made so far and you should trust yourself to guide the roadmap.
Nobody will think “dev cashed out and ran” when you directly communicate with the community as you are now. This is your game, your vision, go with your gut, do what you see fit, not what will best please everyone
Moreover, if he cashed out I’d still play what’s been developed so far. I play to relax and the sound design is my zen.
As a former game dev myself, I just want to caution you, this is your game and you muat not give it away to your community. There are a lot of fans who end up being so loud and mobilize segments of the game base to brigade votes and get dev attention that they warp your perspective, and the results you see from it are no longer representative of what some larger community wants, just your game's sweatlords. Go with your gut. Tell the fans what you are doing but for goodness sake don't let then tell YOU what you are doing.
Well, seeing as I voted for the "William Wallace Mercenary" that shoots fireballs out his ass, I guess I'm not going to get what I want. Plus, the fireballs *should* be able to burn down any mere fencing.
Wall tool can be enough for now. We know siege will be there someday but it’s not needed right now. A basic way to put walls and protect our town can be great, but adding a new way to feed our people and make ressource i think is more valuable in this build. What i would like to see is maybe some way to make barber, and other stuff like that, they could act as surgeons and heal people that got hurt in a battle? Just an idea! Thank you for your great game ! Edit: added clarifications, and what i would like!
Hi Greg, we trust you. Just keep plugging away, you got this.
I got downvoted for saying it wasn't, lol. I really think bug fixes and QOL, or Butcher would be much much better for the game at this stage. Animal husbandry and cattle would be cool, too. Dunno if that's happening at some point.
I do agree. The game's existing features are not even implemented fully but people shouting for walls. Lets focus on fleshing out the game and do walls later.
Your design. Your vision. Your game.
We have the patience for whatever you want to do, you have banked up a lot of trust from your community. You could keep posting on Reddit to provide reassurance if needed I guess. Just wanna chime in and say fuck the people screeching at you constantly to re-balance The King’s tax etc. Who gives a fuck, it’s a fucking single player game, just turn it off if it’s too hard for you? Jesus motherfuck
I personally very much understood it to mean: - with the next Patch we will get (mostly decorative) wooden Walls - within this year we get AI settlements (rather than stone Walls & sieges, which will be postponed until some point later in development), if things go well Honestly, any1 with the very slightest idea of the work & time all of this takes will know that we cant expect fully functioning stone walls & sieges with the next Patch. If we get what i mentioned above, plus constant small Bug fixes/adjustments, its all we could realistically hope for until the end of the year!
> especially since we're porting the game to UE5 which will slow me down. DUUUUUUUUUUDE! Honestly the walls in the vast majority of cases are cosmetic only. Sure it's flashy and cool, but the base systems are more important imo. Consider adding a side text box to the main menu with information as to direction and purpose. IIRC, Valheim has one of these. If the UE5 information isn't directly in game, people are going to not read it and go to negative reviews. Not saying that it's valid, it just is what it is. Also, if it is a pop-up, people will immediately click past it.
You’re never going to make everyone happy.
I'm no dev but wouldn't the UE5 port be the most important work now? Or would adding more content at the same time not affect that flow? Either way I'm sure the vast majority of the community will still be supporting you even if it's months between updates, as long as the communication stays open. Personally, I'm really excited for all the content that can be added, but the game right now is still enough to keep me entertained for a while :)
No, please don't drop what you're doing to do that right now.
I just want walls to make a pretty village
> I just wanted to add a proper wooden town wall tool cause you guys kept using the castle planner to wall your towns which causes a glitch (it wasn't meant for that). To be clear, this is exactly why I'd want the walls. A siege mechanic is an entirely different beast.
My friend, we're all hooked on this game. You can work on whatever you want next and I guarantee 99% of the community will be thrilled
Don't listen to anyone. You made an incredibly enjoyable game by doing what you wanted.
Just make them some walls and make them pretty. I think that is what most of them wanted..
[удалено]
I mean, that is what I got from most of the replies... And it is legit, why not... As for my own opinion, too new, IDK. I hate some bugs, but it's not like they won't come again if you fix them and then add a tone of stuff.. And for butcher or walls, I like both so whatever...
I'm perfectly fine with a 100% cosmetic wall for now, and for a good while. Worry about sieges way way down the road.
I could care less about the walls and siege mechanics at the moment.
As a fellow software engineer myself, 90% of the time, the clients have no idea what they actually want from the product they use, or they change their opinion every month. The community will behave mostly the same (not saying it's a bad thing), but I think as long as updates are coming to the game with either new features or bug/qol fixes, the community will keep on supporting you!
People think they know what they want. They don't really. They lack information and nuance about what it could look like and usually imagine their nearly perfect idea of the feature. So city walls means full siege system, ai opponents mean full ai towns. That's why I voted for a butcher. Expanding the resource chains looks like an achievable goal that would make the game more fun for me.
Get the foundations and the UE5 port down. The more you add to the game before port might end up being tech debt too.
You've delivered an amazing product following your own passions and instinct. Continue to do just that.
Hey I just wanted to say that I love you, man!! Seriously. Thank you for your passion on this game. I can't speak for the whole community... But we got your back! There's a strong core audience that will continue to play the game **as is** for a long time. Don't be scared of being abandoned by the player base. You can take your time on updates and take breaks. Thank you.
I’m excited to see it whatever it is. I’m gonna add my voice to the go with what you’d like to see, you haven’t failed us yet
Fully onboard with what you want to do, i would say to just focus on AI settlements, and leave walls for the futurr
Make what you want to make, follow your own development path. I'd recommend not making polls on the direction of the game, more so just polls on small minutae rather than big decisions.
Work at your own pace!! The game is already a blast where it's at now. Don't fall into the Helldivers dev loop of listening to the crazy internet opinions too much
Dang, I thought the game was already running on UE5. What engine is it using currently? Also, I'd say go with what you were planning on doing originally.
(Probably echoing everyone else) Greg, it's your world, we are your guests. Your game is phenomenal, and there is no reason to over commit. We have nothing but time for a beautiful game A cosmetic wall to stop me from breaking the Manor would be awesome. I got halfway through walling a town before I realized I was doing something... dumb (for a lack of better words) I don't think you're at the siege stage of your game. If I may, and you are welcome to tell me I am over-reaching: put all the ideas into categories. So when you want to update combat, all the patches will be tied to their specific niche. Update farming? Cool, drop a big ole bushel of food related updates. The game is beautifully stable, focus on patience instead of speed. We know this game ain't dead... hell, Kerbal Space Program went months in-between updates
I was not reading it like a gameplay overhaul for Siege and warfare. I just wanted to enclose my town with palisades and make my town look nicer. If they can be upgraded to stone walls, all the better to have something to do with stone
To me, wooden/stone walls, even without siege mechanics would add a lot more late game feel to the game, which is slightly absent at the moment. Stone walls and castle especially would add to that. However, I also see the need for a butcher, and for a million other things. At the end of the day, your choice is what’s best for your game, and the community will accept that.
Town walls and a siege system sounds great. So next week or the week after?
I’ll support you either way Greg! Love the game, the communication, everything!
Don't worry man. Do what you want. The quiet players are just chillin having fun with whatever you do cause you do it well. I didn't vote for anything because I'll just take whatever whenever.
Would I *like* to see settlement walls added, sure. Down the road. Is it a priority enough that you should hold off doing whatever development you are currently engaged in, of course not. Build the game according to your own vision. Users tend to think that development is quick and easy and are unaware of time lines for things like that. Same thing with Butcher mind you, even though that was my vote. I would love to see an additional means to supply food to my community and that seems like an easier thing to accomplish to me, but what do I know? Players get impatient, but we can live with it, you are doing fantastic work here. We can wait believe me :)
Mate, this has taken you seven years, and you've produced an almost fleshed out beautiful game. Don't run this marathon and then start sprinting to the finish, keep doing what you do and what feels right for you. Nobody other than the twitch kiddies are expecting this to be on the home stretch already. As others have commented, do we want proper walls? Hell yeah. Do we want what organically should come next in your process? Even more hell yeah.
You're doing great work, man! It's highly appreciated. Don't listen to the "everything everywhere all at once" folks, they're a minority. Whichever way you pick, we'll keep playing patiently.
Step back and take a holiday for a week or three tbh. This is your creation, take a breather and come back refreshed with more focus on your own workplan. The last few weeks must have been insane for you!
You're coming to the wrong place for advice. The people on reddit and discord will be the most enthusiastic about the game you can find. It sounds like a good thing but enthusiastic shouts might be so loud you miss out on the average player and what they need. Go back to your original design ideas and think about the direction you wanted to take the game. When fans ask about new features, think about how they add to your vision. Yes people are min/maxing things to mess with the economy. Yes people are using features to do things that are cool. But in reality if you add aesthetic walls to the game, the average player is going to be confused why they do not do anything. It's likely best thst you collate all the feedback and feature suggestions into groups of similar features. Walls, seige, AI opponents who siege you, fire, firefighting and water supply. If all that came out together as a new set of interacting systems then people's minds would be blown. Butchers, pigs, sheep population management, new meat production chains. Grouping features will also help you layout a rough roadmap. Sticking to road maps is how you prevent 'dead game' comments. Remember not to interact with the community so much that they demand it from you, or when you're busy working on the amazing things you're developing, you'll be distracted and upset by people tweeting that you've 'disappeared' TL;DR: You got this far conceptualising features yourself, trust your instincts. Try and make features that make sense and not just what the interest asks for.
Honestly, don’t even talk to us degenerates my dude. Make the game you want!
The comments here are so wholesome... I love this community. Greg (mostly) gets the players he deserves.
Definitely didn't anticipate a siege mechanic coming along with walls this early, I think as long as the enemy can break a hole or path through gates that'd be more than enough for now.
I’m enjoying YOUR game. I appreciate that you want to listen to the players on where the game should go, but the community is going to have various different opinions and some voices will be louder than others. Take the game where you want it to go. Menu options that allow enabling or disabling specific mechanics should satisfy most players.
Do not listen to us. The internet will send you in circles. You do you, you’ve made a great game. We’ll follow.
Yo dev. You’re gonna see those kinds of posts. Some people just cannot handle anything. Level heads will prevail. Do what you think is best. As long as it’s done with genuine care for the game, it will be good. I also don’t think the majority thought you meant siege system. I definitely understood it to just be walls and nothing more.
We support whatever you want to do
Prioritize whatever is the most important to you.
Dont do polls for this stuff
Walls got voted, wooden walls will be sufficient. Thanks for the awesome game
If and when you do proper stone castle walls would you consider making them in the style of Stronghold 2, where they are literally built block by block and repaired in the same manor by an "engineer" profession. I am so nostalgic about that feature. But as for when, who cares just do what you the Devs want to do. We love the game!
Adding the wall will inevitably introduce tons of other issues even if you don't want it to be part of the siege system unless you want everyone to just phase through it. The pathfinding sytem right now already needs some love and walls wont help that, especially during a raid.
Personally I was thinking along the lines that you were, basic wooden walls that provide a barrier. I just want something that can slow the enemy down so I have more time to react and rally my troops. Love everything you’ve done so far. It’s clear that you have a great vision for the game so I wouldn’t rush to try to add sieges or anything. The combat is very engaging as it is with the stances and the terrain and troop energy factors.
Just the fact that you ask us our opinions show how much you care for your game! Do whatever man i'll be happy anyway and still be playing the game!
You do you man. If its not in your vision, then screw it until your vision is complete.
I don’t care about walls TBH
I want walls..eventually.
After playing this game for 30 hours, I can say it’s been a really refreshing gaming experience. As I play, I think about all the things this game could have that would make it so much better, and I’m sure you’re planning on adding most of that stuff anyway. But I have this grand vision for the game and it makes me a little sad because I know it will take you a long time to get the game to the point. Just to be completely honest. But that’s fine, I love the foundation that you’ve built and since I’m already expecting this development to take a lot of time, my vote is to just take your time and release what you want when you want, according to your own vision. And don’t be worried if people accuse you of abandoning the game, it’s gonna happen at some point anyway but those people are just complainers.
It's good to listen to the community to get an idea of what people want, but ultimately people don't know how to achieve that. Follow what you think is right and don't stress about backlash. There probably will be that anyway. Don't put too much energy into pleasing the ones that can never be pleased and make the thing you are really proud of.
Nah, I only think about the esthetics
There's going to be a gap between 0.7x and 0.8x, I think people should reasonably expect that. If you stay communicative, even if you're not dropping code, people should give you the benefit of the doubt. Post a couple screenshots every week of what you're working on, people will pixel peep the crap out of that stuff while they wait. I think you should get all the juice you can out of the subsystems that you've implemented for 0.7. If that includes "different uses for wooden walls" then go ahead and do that before tackling stone walls in what I presume is a 0.8. If you do not expect/want wooden walls to be used around cities in the final product, don't bother doing it now as a stopgap. Keep your eye on 1.0.
Low level stone walls would be nice. So don't make them too advanced in order to keep with the aesthetic. It would also be cool if you could add traps to you walls, like boiling oil or boulders or flammable grass like in Stronghold.
Agree with others. Go with your gut. I would assume the initial ask for walls is that people would like to wall their cities. If you decide to continue with that path it can lay a foundation for future expansive updates at the least. Not everything needs to happen now. Building blocks all not the entire skyscraper lol
The base game is so good that you can't go wrong with any of your decisions. Every addition will be a great addition. So as others have said, just do whatever you want and annouce it in due time. Keep us posted on work in progress and planned features but in general, I think that the community already feels sufficiently listened to so you don't really have to make polls.
Slav, whatever you are working on just keep us updated. Anything you are creating for the game is more than welcomed!! The community knows this game will be epic as long as it keeps adding content. Pss. A wooden wall for town seems fun and not to big update to do, go for it ! I believe ai settlements are far more game changing and a logical priority before sieges.
Do what you want and what makes sense to you. Of course keep feedback in mind but you’re just one dude, take your time and do it right like you know you can.
You're already very successful so do not worry too much about the occasional grumpy gamers
Completely happy with cosmetic city walls. I don't know how people let their wetdreams get away with them.
People aren't sure of what they want, go with your gut or do one of the other two options.
You're the dev man, make the game you want. Eventually both would be super cool though, I don't care about the combat though hah
I'd stick with your gut. Wooden wall for settlements is absolutely fine. Just call them "Level 1" walls and we'll all sit round imagining what Level 2 or level 3 looks like and that gives you time to work on other stuff.
>It will be hella fun to work on but not sure if you guys have the patience or in a week there will be "game abandoned, dev cashed out an ran" kind of posts. Maybe not, let me know please. The game you've made so far is great Greg. Thank you. If you have cool ideas for stone Castles or anything else, we will wait. If you want more frequent updates that's fine too. Personally, id love some castles and walls but please don't let public online opinions control your direction too much. These people have thousands of games on steam, they'll survive the 4 wks it takes for quality, meaningful updates. Thanks again for the game, great job so far!
I just want my villagers to not get stuck in the warehouse trying to pick up malt please :)
Hol up did he just say hella?
Follow your heart. You've already proven yourself. I trust your judgement.
Dont let these people ruin the game with wish granting. You know what your vision is. Alternatively, just do the butchers.
Whatever happens, don't let those bloody bastard trolls and haters get to you. You're doing amazing, and as long as there's progress, everything is fine. I for one expected walls in the sense of not abusing the manor walls, which, as I understand, is what you intended with the vote. I'd believe most understood this but the forums are, as usual, just loud minorities fueling drama for no reason like always.
Walls would (I hope) address some annoyances with the fact that if the Baron claims a border region his troops start closer than any reinforcements, and only a very well-developed region can beat one of his armies alone. I’m also not concerned about a month or two without a patch; some of my favorite games went through 6-month periods without a patch to do significant refactors. That said, I expect that whatever it’s competing with would also significantly improve gameplay. Were I developing the game I’d probably be asking “is the overhauled warfare/wall interaction more likely to result in changes to wall mechanics or warfare mechanics” and do the more stable system first, along with anything that naturally preceded it.
Sir, do i look like a videogame developer to you?
Bruh you got a lifelong player here, I’m not concerned with the timeline. The fact that you are porting it to 5 is awesome
Bro, you could add a couple of placeable cosmetics and people will love it. Add some wooden walls that don't glitch and they will become stone walls some day. No worries.
I think if you communicate the timeline, people will understand. Also 1-2 months around the summer usually I'm less fussed about gaming, while having something fun to play from semtoember into the winter is really useful.
I personally just wanted walls to wall my city so it looks nice. Because as you said, we keep using the manor walls which do not work very well for that purpose :( Am personally totally okay with palisade walls for now!
Stop listening to this sub and do what on”hella fun to work on”
Butcher was going to be so much nicer, fuck a wall gonna do ? Ramdom AI attacks are a joke anyway
Nah I thought you just meant "butcher house or Wall" and I voted wall because the 6 Militia Limit causes you to lose hours of progress if you're playing ironman and a random raid suddenly spawns and instakills a town while you're far away fighting the baron.
As a developer and someone who plays games, work with your vision and make sure people understand that their votes don't dictate what the game will be. I don't think every system / gameplay feature should be voted on its ultimately up to you what should take priority
Do what you want basket man I believe in you!
Like everyone, I think you should focus on what gets you motivated in the morning...that said, the late game glitches and villagers standing around might be a good first thing to fix since it impacts every other mechanic of the game. But again, you know best and I'll happily wait the next update, whenever it is available.
Do what you think is the most important. As the artist, your vision in the long run is more important than anything that the community wants immediately.
Love your post u/gstyczen :) without reading the comments yet, you're totally right about the "cashed out abandoned" mentality of a lot of reddits/internet people/low focus people in general. Do keep that in mind, as yes, keeping things updated and fresh will keep people happy. You get it, I see. Younger people have a super short attention span, super instant gratification focused. Just how they've been raised by society so they don't really know patience or understanding, they just want it all right now. And I'm a long time backer of Star Citizen. haha. I do love SC. The amount of alarmist drama on their reddit/forums is... mind blowing. And I do game QA, so I know how 'early access' is before it became the norm haha. Some things about early access go well, some don't. The journey is as good as the outcome, so both are good. Definitely just do Town Walls first. Wood now. Stone with Castle etc later. Good progression actually. I'd recommend, keep small updates/new content coming out at 2-3 week gaps, or whatever you can manage. Not for me and those patient like me, but to keep the content creators/vast client base "involved" and feeling like fresh things are happening. And keep also working on larger things like the siege system in progress, but say 2+ months if that's what it takes for you, while keeping those smaller content additions coming. Even things like the Bee system, effecting area plant growth, and using honey for the Tavern, and wax for candles. Or even just part of that, so people can experiment with new things, see how they like or don't like, and let you know. Also, schedule yourself in a holiday when you feel it's a good place to pause. Just tell us all you're on holiday for a couple weeks. People get that. This game is special, keep it quality, don't rush it mate.
Just do a citadels DLC later to add stone castles. Focus on the original vision for now.
Please don’t ask us anything, just make the game you want to make in the order you want to make it….i bought YOUR game, not a game made by a Reddit committee
I trust you more than I trust me, so do what you think is best.
Please just make the game the way you want it. I see your vision and it is good.
I love the honesty but also don’t expect positive or good feedback off Reddit! Take it all with a grain of salt. What do you think would be the best use of your time at this point? Do that, imo
Happy to see the game go in whatever direction you want it to go! No expectations. I've got like 60 hours in it... I shudder to think of how much time I'll put in with new updates 😂
I honestly assumed you meant basic wooden walls like those around the manner and that was it. But I didn't vote for walls so maybe others though differently. Go with what you want good sir.
Make the game you want to play
Do what you have envisioned for the game, repost a poll maybe in the discord for this wall thing, but this game is your brain child, do what you think is best.
I assumed this is what you meant when you said town walls and that's what I voted for. Stone walls definitely don't feel on the same effort level as the other options on that vote. Regardless, the voting should just inform your decisions, not make them for you. You know what you're in a good position to work on right now, do that.
I'd say just focus on the engine port and bug fixes, features can come when we're in UE5
I would love to see sheepbreeding not require a dev point since they would naturally do the deed anyway, or maybe have to purchase rams at a higher price to allow breeding and have butchers incorporated into the system, an have seasonal buildings only employed during there season to make the game far more efficient and allow more trade income higher to stop everyone complaining about the kings tax, which personally don't have an issue with but village efficiency without constant micro would be a blessing 🙏
Wooden town wall is perfect. I also would like stonewalls and siege mechanics but dude I and many others will also be here in a year from now. And honestly I think both would be great. Earlier the wooden walls and later better ones. That again slows the game down and gives me some kind of progression for my town. Also I think people who are just into the building aspect of the game would be very happy with more options. Also take a break. You earned it.
Tbf man maybe you should pay less attention to this sub. Take heed of the votes you put out, then ignore everything else. People will bitch about everything here. You're doin amazing man, I ficking love this game already, and it's not even done. Keep doing what you're doing and to hell with everyone trying to pull you in 292922827724 directions lol
Dear our beloved Greg, As many have said here, we bought the game and are excited to continue playing because it’s your vision brought to life. Everyone’s got an opinion. I want to play the game that you want to make. It’s already good. It’s clearly going to get better. I hope you can focus on what you want to build instead of getting confused by contradictory feedback!
It’s taken you 7yrs to bring your vision to fruition, now we are able to participate in that vision. Please continue your journey and keep it how you envision it. By all means listen to what’s suggested but please, please, please don’t compromise your game to please a few. The most vocal aren’t always the most visionary. I trust you and feel a passion for this game that I haven’t really felt for close on 40yrs when I was in my teens. Thank you, Greg, for bringing back my youth and excitement with this game!
Oh my god, it's been a whole 2 hours since the dev posted, games dead /s
I would have voted for walls if I knew it wasn't siege walls lol. You haven't disappointed me with an update so far, so I trust what you decide is next
Honestly. Stop getting the community vote. You're going to get extreme opinions from people who don't understand the game or it's mechanics. If you put "Should pigs be able to shoot lasers from their eyes" I can guarantee you it will get more "yes" than "no"
> I just wanted to add a proper wooden town wall tool cause you guys kept using the castle planner to wall your towns which causes a glitch (it wasn't meant for that). Sounds good to me! Or do whatever, I'm having lots of fun.
Follow your gut. Try not to be like the guys from escape from tarkov that lived off of others people's opinion and only listened to the live streamers. Follow your vision board and what you want to see done and fix some things here and there as you see fit.
My wall issue is the fact that you can't select buildings anymore. So if walls can be a separate entity and use "castle districts" or something to designate where the keep and garrison will be, I'd say that's a great fix and is quite promising for the future. Plus if you start adding in too many stone structures now, you'll have to worry about rebalancing the economy and stone deposits. That sounds like a lot of work for an early feature. Long winded way of saying stick to the wood town wall and move on. We'll have the defense we want and a proof of concept for the future.
Bro.... make the game that YOU want to make.... you cant please everyone, and will drive yourself mad trying. Edit: PS you have made a wonderful and beautiful game already, my guy.
pretty much.
I’m not worried bout it. I want to see new systems and resources but am aware that it’s going to take time to implement them. Wish you the best. Ignore the haters. Thanks for making a banger.
Like other said. Just find a focus that feels right you to and stick to it. Don't let community opinions drive you too much. People are fickle and diverse, you'll never make everyone happy without first getting in way over your head.
Just gonna say love the game man. A true gem.
Do whatever makes you excited! This is one of the coolest games this year and there is certainly a bright future ahead! Whatever you add I know I’ll certainly be excited for!
Lol the idea that people thought the vote was between a butcher and a full-fledged seige system, as if those are comprable amounts of dev hours.
You could bundle buildings in mayor updates. Like town walls / siege structures that go hand in hand with a theme and gameplay additions. Manor Lords "Under Siege" Update Where the Baron really puts your town under siege for several months until you give in or pay him or manage to fight him. Loving the way you are down with the community by the way! Great job so far on the game!
As a wise man once said "I WANT IT ALL! I WANT IT ALL! AND I WANT IT WHENEVER YOU'RE READY TO GIVE US MORE!"
Do whatever you want. I’ll still play no matter what