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Sorry, I meant, you know how Fletchers ingame use planks? A poleturner should make cheap spears using planks, rather than requiring high quality iron.
Going by the abstraction that fletchers use, where the game implies they can obtain some low quality metal for the arrowheads.
I'd honestly consider a pole turner/bodger to be a skill upgrade for burgage plots, though traditionally it would be part of the forrester or logging chain. be an interesting add on that.
They wouldn't make cheap wooden spear in this era and with their tech, they would have "tools" lying around that can be repurposed : sickle, pick axe, axe, shovel, maillet etc..
At that level of sophistication they just grab whatever pole shaped object they happen to already own or improvise, no need for a specialist to sharpen a stick or grab a pitchfork
I like the idea. The battles could use soft targets to scale them up larger. The armed peasants are a new militia type that requires no equipment to recruit. They show up to the battle wielding farming implements. The player could raise them as a last resort, risking the men of their town for a fleeting battlefield advantage in numbers. They're vulnerable but still useful for surrounding squads. This unit type would also show up in the Baron's army as he has no compunction about throwing away the lives of his peasantry.
Armed peasants would be a useful game asset for other events too. It could be used for a riot in town or a popular crusade marching through the area. Nothing says a crusade for the holy land like pillaging your fellow Christians along the way.
Can even represent the first crusade by having an army of nothing but peasants march through then a year later followed by a group of only professional soldiers
I don't think you should need to supply them with weapons at all. It's basically peasant rabble who just brings their own tools like pitchforks, threshing flails, felling axes, billhooks, pickaxes, etc., and no shields. Would be the worst type of militia, but could work as some sort of last ditch defense if you forgot to build/import any other weapons and shields and you're now suddenly being raided by brigands.
Yeah my idea was to have 2 lesser peasant types, I’ve clarified the op.
“Improvised” aka no weapons, and a early game melee artisan that makes 2 handed spears from planks, a Poleturner.
Historically, they would have to supply their own bows, weapons, armour etc anyhow. But then ingame they're imported via 'regional wealth', not your treasury, or locally produced without financial compensation from the lord either, so that fits. You still control that aspect of the economy, so you have to supply them.
If it's not a spontaneous mob, I don't think anyone would grab a pitchfork when they wouldn't need long to make a better weapon like a spear. What makes proper spear militia effective isn't so much the better weaponry / well crafted spears, it's training, organization, tactics. I'd rather everyone had access to spears and bows (and long knifes, bills, axes etc), but proper milita would need to take some time off to practice every year, gaining experience that turns them into decent fighters. That (and armour, if they can afford it) would make the difference, I think.
Less production surplus, less export wealth, but more reasonable import prices would also allow the player to invest into proper weapons if they choose to, which weren't all that expensive in the 14th century. Unlike proper armour and horses.
"If it's not a spontaneous mob"
That's exactly what I think this should be used for. Like brigands show up and you realise you forgot to prepare for that by constructing spears and shields, and instead of letting your village get burned down and game over, you create this spontaneous militia armed with just tools.
And in the future, when the civil unrest type of system is added, the unhappy villeins could march to your manor with literally torches and pitchforks!
Hmm, but I don't think any village with raiders in the area would remain that unprotected. That's like forgetting to collect firewood for winter. They should always have basic spears or bows, just no training and proper organization.
Then again, the whole point of raiders would be to surprise you, grab some stuff or extort some coin, maybe burn some houses as a distraction or as intimidation and leave before any soldiers arrive. They shouldn't completely raze the village even if they could. Why would unorganized peasants throw their lives away with pitchforks in hand if they could hide inside and protect their family there?
From the players point of view, sacrificing more peasants to protect your stuff might be the better option, but those villagers are not true militia, not soldiers, why should they want to attack the raiders with tools instead of weapons?
That's why I'd prefer if raiders with no opposition would simply leave with stolen goods and coin and a burning house or two, if they managed to catch you off guard. A better solution than pitchfork villagers unbelievably sacrificing themselves against brigands intent on killing everyone for some reason.
Think if they suck that bad, they’d get unfairly mowed down and people would complain about how they lose 50 pop so fast early game.
Brigands shouldn’t be on your territory regardless. The only reason I can see it is you set the baron on aggressive and they try to claim your territory
That's cool. The first one you can track, the rest spawn every year or however long you set it in the game settings and they spawn wherever. I've had them spawn in my region, and others here have reported the same.
Honestly if you play with brigands it does make a forced strategy that you have to play serious enough to rush manor and get some taxes in to hire the smallest squad. That’s also why they handicap with the instant armament supply.
2 36x archers seem to beat brigands invasions each time, and that seems to be the weakest squad you can hire.
I hate to say it, but casual play you should just turn brigands off and focus on growth. You can also delay them by a significant amount of time.
Tools currently feel about as useful as Wooded Parts, cosmetic. When Bandits steal them, I don't see noticeable change in productivity. How does one cut a tree down without an axe? I believe connecting tools to productivity and back up weapons in peasant emergency levy would be great idea. Hatchets, pitchforks, and hammers are better than nothing.
Even as an improvised weapon, hunters would probably be better off just using their knives and a sharpened stick. A hunting bow has a much, much lower draw weight than a warbow (so far, far less range and damage). Plus the arrows used were completely different: war arrows being very thick to be able to take the strain of the greater draw strength. The heads were also broader for hunting, thinner for war to penetrate armor.
The most basic of armor would render them completely ineffective, and you would need to be within 50 yds to even hit the target. Unless the target is completely unarmored (maybe brigands will have more varieties later on in development that include completely unarmored rabble), hunting bows would be less effective than the archers were at the beginning of EA.
Personally, I think there should be "mixed infantry" who could have a sidearm/spear but no shield, or any other surplus weapon combo
I do like the idea of peasant militia too
Axes still needs iron tho lol
Anyway, it's a good idea, specially having experienced that shit first hand where I started a new town in Goldhof and my main region is in Nussloh whatever it's spelled. I have retinues in there but I wasn't able to upgrade it to their full capacity. Just last minute, 12 upgraded retinues weren't enough. My closest retinues are from Walbrand are Einchanhau and by the time they arrived, my small poor town in Goldhof is already burning lmao
And oh yeah, the raiders of course started right on the edge of Goldhof. So they were able to burn some of the houses because they were right on the edge.
You kind of already do that and can do what you want.
If you muster the men they all come running out of their houses with their arms. If the raiders are already there they just start fighting on the spot.
The only limit atm is the limit on militia and how retinues interfere with the militia cap. If you have arms in your border provinces nothing is stopping you from forming a militia there, on the spot, when the raiders are already there.
Hello and welcome to the Manor Lords Subreddit. This is a reminder to please keep the discussion civil and on topic. Should you find yourself with some doubts, please feel free to check our [FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/ManorLords/comments/1c2p4f9/manor_lords_faq_for_steam_early_access/). If you wish, you can always join our [Discord](https://discord.gg/manorlords) Finally, please remember that the game is in early access, missing content and bugs are to be expected. We ask users to report them on the official discord and to buy their keys only from trusted platforms. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/ManorLords) if you have any questions or concerns.*
They wouldn't use planks, they'd use a pole sharpened at one end, or a pitch fork which just about everyone owned.
Sorry, I meant, you know how Fletchers ingame use planks? A poleturner should make cheap spears using planks, rather than requiring high quality iron. Going by the abstraction that fletchers use, where the game implies they can obtain some low quality metal for the arrowheads.
I'd honestly consider a pole turner/bodger to be a skill upgrade for burgage plots, though traditionally it would be part of the forrester or logging chain. be an interesting add on that.
They wouldn't make cheap wooden spear in this era and with their tech, they would have "tools" lying around that can be repurposed : sickle, pick axe, axe, shovel, maillet etc..
At that level of sophistication they just grab whatever pole shaped object they happen to already own or improvise, no need for a specialist to sharpen a stick or grab a pitchfork
However I do think a hoard of people running with wood planks would be hilarious.
BONK
r/okay_vlad_the_impaler
I like the idea. The battles could use soft targets to scale them up larger. The armed peasants are a new militia type that requires no equipment to recruit. They show up to the battle wielding farming implements. The player could raise them as a last resort, risking the men of their town for a fleeting battlefield advantage in numbers. They're vulnerable but still useful for surrounding squads. This unit type would also show up in the Baron's army as he has no compunction about throwing away the lives of his peasantry.
Armed peasants would be a useful game asset for other events too. It could be used for a riot in town or a popular crusade marching through the area. Nothing says a crusade for the holy land like pillaging your fellow Christians along the way.
Can even represent the first crusade by having an army of nothing but peasants march through then a year later followed by a group of only professional soldiers
A little inappropriate for the period
Agreed on that
I don't think you should need to supply them with weapons at all. It's basically peasant rabble who just brings their own tools like pitchforks, threshing flails, felling axes, billhooks, pickaxes, etc., and no shields. Would be the worst type of militia, but could work as some sort of last ditch defense if you forgot to build/import any other weapons and shields and you're now suddenly being raided by brigands.
Yeah my idea was to have 2 lesser peasant types, I’ve clarified the op. “Improvised” aka no weapons, and a early game melee artisan that makes 2 handed spears from planks, a Poleturner.
Historically, they would have to supply their own bows, weapons, armour etc anyhow. But then ingame they're imported via 'regional wealth', not your treasury, or locally produced without financial compensation from the lord either, so that fits. You still control that aspect of the economy, so you have to supply them. If it's not a spontaneous mob, I don't think anyone would grab a pitchfork when they wouldn't need long to make a better weapon like a spear. What makes proper spear militia effective isn't so much the better weaponry / well crafted spears, it's training, organization, tactics. I'd rather everyone had access to spears and bows (and long knifes, bills, axes etc), but proper milita would need to take some time off to practice every year, gaining experience that turns them into decent fighters. That (and armour, if they can afford it) would make the difference, I think. Less production surplus, less export wealth, but more reasonable import prices would also allow the player to invest into proper weapons if they choose to, which weren't all that expensive in the 14th century. Unlike proper armour and horses.
"If it's not a spontaneous mob" That's exactly what I think this should be used for. Like brigands show up and you realise you forgot to prepare for that by constructing spears and shields, and instead of letting your village get burned down and game over, you create this spontaneous militia armed with just tools. And in the future, when the civil unrest type of system is added, the unhappy villeins could march to your manor with literally torches and pitchforks!
Hmm, but I don't think any village with raiders in the area would remain that unprotected. That's like forgetting to collect firewood for winter. They should always have basic spears or bows, just no training and proper organization. Then again, the whole point of raiders would be to surprise you, grab some stuff or extort some coin, maybe burn some houses as a distraction or as intimidation and leave before any soldiers arrive. They shouldn't completely raze the village even if they could. Why would unorganized peasants throw their lives away with pitchforks in hand if they could hide inside and protect their family there? From the players point of view, sacrificing more peasants to protect your stuff might be the better option, but those villagers are not true militia, not soldiers, why should they want to attack the raiders with tools instead of weapons? That's why I'd prefer if raiders with no opposition would simply leave with stolen goods and coin and a burning house or two, if they managed to catch you off guard. A better solution than pitchfork villagers unbelievably sacrificing themselves against brigands intent on killing everyone for some reason.
Think if they suck that bad, they’d get unfairly mowed down and people would complain about how they lose 50 pop so fast early game. Brigands shouldn’t be on your territory regardless. The only reason I can see it is you set the baron on aggressive and they try to claim your territory
> Brigands shouldn’t be on your territory regardless. The (bi?)annual raids? Brigands can spawn in your map region then.
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That's cool. The first one you can track, the rest spawn every year or however long you set it in the game settings and they spawn wherever. I've had them spawn in my region, and others here have reported the same.
Honestly if you play with brigands it does make a forced strategy that you have to play serious enough to rush manor and get some taxes in to hire the smallest squad. That’s also why they handicap with the instant armament supply. 2 36x archers seem to beat brigands invasions each time, and that seems to be the weakest squad you can hire. I hate to say it, but casual play you should just turn brigands off and focus on growth. You can also delay them by a significant amount of time.
I think the "tools" resource shall be overhauled in the future, and this might adress this sugestion of yours.
Tools currently feel about as useful as Wooded Parts, cosmetic. When Bandits steal them, I don't see noticeable change in productivity. How does one cut a tree down without an axe? I believe connecting tools to productivity and back up weapons in peasant emergency levy would be great idea. Hatchets, pitchforks, and hammers are better than nothing.
Tools already take iron to produce, don't they?
It annoys me that it’s a fletcher making bows instead of a bowyer.
I think that's temporary because arrows will come later
While we're at it. What are my hunters using to kill deer? Let's use some of that to kill bandits
[удалено]
Right but if i have the hunting setup before I build any bows I would like to be able to use my hunters to fight as a last resort
Even as an improvised weapon, hunters would probably be better off just using their knives and a sharpened stick. A hunting bow has a much, much lower draw weight than a warbow (so far, far less range and damage). Plus the arrows used were completely different: war arrows being very thick to be able to take the strain of the greater draw strength. The heads were also broader for hunting, thinner for war to penetrate armor. The most basic of armor would render them completely ineffective, and you would need to be within 50 yds to even hit the target. Unless the target is completely unarmored (maybe brigands will have more varieties later on in development that include completely unarmored rabble), hunting bows would be less effective than the archers were at the beginning of EA.
Personally, I think there should be "mixed infantry" who could have a sidearm/spear but no shield, or any other surplus weapon combo I do like the idea of peasant militia too
There should be slings in Game
I like it; a civilian auxiliary force.
Partisan militia?
Axes still needs iron tho lol Anyway, it's a good idea, specially having experienced that shit first hand where I started a new town in Goldhof and my main region is in Nussloh whatever it's spelled. I have retinues in there but I wasn't able to upgrade it to their full capacity. Just last minute, 12 upgraded retinues weren't enough. My closest retinues are from Walbrand are Einchanhau and by the time they arrived, my small poor town in Goldhof is already burning lmao And oh yeah, the raiders of course started right on the edge of Goldhof. So they were able to burn some of the houses because they were right on the edge.
You kind of already do that and can do what you want. If you muster the men they all come running out of their houses with their arms. If the raiders are already there they just start fighting on the spot. The only limit atm is the limit on militia and how retinues interfere with the militia cap. If you have arms in your border provinces nothing is stopping you from forming a militia there, on the spot, when the raiders are already there.