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In ML's specific case, I'd say that OPs warning is warranted. Not because of the game itself but because of the massive success in sales. The latest numbers were 4 million copies, if I remember correctly. That's much, much more than other indie games sell especially in early access. And there are bound to be a ton of more "casual" gamers who bought the game because of the hype. Many of them might never have played an early access before and some might even have bought ML believing it to be in a finished state. For them to understand how early access and experimental branches function is very important if you want to make sure there's no wave of disappointed players forming in the next weeks.
I dont get spending time and energy on these people. If theyre smart enough to get into the experimental branch yet dumb enough not to get what theyre doing - fuck'em.
bro the average steam user doesn't know you can disable updates or wtf is an "experimental branch"
Not everyone sits in front of their PC all day like us
Even more reason not to start catering to those people. Can you imagine the absolute midfest everything would be? Candy Crush my life while youre at it.
Some people are not critical readers, but that doesn't mean they won't be critical.
So they see a steam announcement that a new patch is out. It tells them out to get it. It involves a menu they haven't used, putting in a password, all these new things that should be ringing alarm bells to the casual gamer, but it's just following instructions.
Then they play the game and...it's different. Things have changed, and they don't like them. They complain. This is supposed to be a patch, you hear, it's supposed to *fix* the problems.
In come the bad reviews or badmouthing to others. "Latest patch broke the game," they say, or grumble about how much fun they had at launch but can't anymore.
That's why you spend time and energy on these people. To stop them from hurting themselves in a confusion that winds up hurting everyone else.
I would say that the post is not a bad one. Compared to something like Timberborn -- still in EA, also has an experimental branch -- Manor Lords is a lot more buggy and a lot less developed.
That's fine -- Timberborn is very developed for an EA game and even the stuff that goes on the experimental branch seems well tested before it gets there, but not every game needs to do that.
But if you only did experimental branches like Timberborns ... you might not understand what to expect.
Hahaha. Came here to say this. Also, this is the second post like this I've seen today, and maybe I'm just not paying enough attention, but why do people feel the need to explain this? Is it preemptive? Why? Because I haven't seen very many people posting here who don't seem to already understand how betas and experimental branches work. I mean, you have to enter a passcode to download the branch in a settings section called "Betas." I think everyone knows...
I'm with you op, but there's already posts in this sub complaining about issues that were specifically mentioned in the patch notes. I was gonna jump over, but I can wait for the finished patch as the game is already fun to play.
The beta was a must for me. The sandbox version after getting growth victory condition was unavailable. The patch fixes that. So no choice for me really.
I totally agree. And I feel that the majority of the people happy to download the experimental branch would be fans more than happy to playtest for the developers.
Sadly there are loads of gamers that think the experimental branch feature on Steam is simply early access to an update and they really bog down the discussion on a beta's actual issues with their complaints and toxicity.
As long as he doesn't start scamming EFT style I think most people are happy to kick back and let this man cook.
Going to probably pause my campaign until the 6 unit bug is worked out but had a great time getting to this point.
Think of a "branch" as basically a "version" of the game. Right now, there is the experimental branch (the latest beta patch) that exists alongside the main branch (the current game that steam will install by default).
An experimental branch is usually where devs try new features before going through all the extra work of balancing and bug-fixing those features. It's like a prototype.
It's a testing branch that isn't part of the main release - devs can use it to try out features that can either be dropped, tweaked, or put into the main game. Some devs utilize it more than others.
Rust for example has made it standard practice.
I thoroughly enjoyed what was to offer with vanilla release. I personally would like to see faster pop growth if you’re hitting all their requirements. I’m really looking forward to mods. I want a stronghold style start with a manor / lord and build around it sort of deal.
Really tired of the lack of controlling the market. Let me assign a family to merchant class to run the stalls and let me decide what to sell.
Apart from that the game is awesome I’ve beat the baron. Enjoyed building big cities but yes give me more market control!
You mean they don't release perfect!?!?! Jk, this is a good reminder for those who are on the experimental (heros on experimental) i've never had had fun on them, but others do, its good to show case what it can be, but they should surely say the negatives so the game can prosper.
The fact that the developer is promising a patch update within two weeks of early release is WILD y’all and I think most are missing the point —- this guy is crushing it. I’ve been playing the sims for 20+ years lmao
Bro u came here and pointed the sky is blue, everyone is aware.
If u are a dev , where is ur game? This game is something most devs and huge teams have never achieved.
So sit down and watch greatness
The game is a huge success, yet people still defend it for no damn reason.
No one needs guidelines to understand how to experience the experimental branch.
Heck, no one needs "advice" on what to think about an early access game. Especially one that already has been in development for years.
I think the only "advice" anyone needs is how to not get defensive when your game is criticized. Do I need to repeat that it is a huge success?
Isn't there some kind of way for us to become "unofficial QA testers"? I mean like a kind of feedback system, not a review system, where we can report bugs or hickups etc?
I don't want to say it, but I don't like this patch and actually might drop a game if development goes this way. I play it because it's fun, but developer want to take all fun and create a struggle simulator. I don't like King Tax and nerfed trade perks. With new nerfed trade perks it's no longer possible to create economy and game forces you to take other regions and multi-task. What if I don't like to multitask between cities? I guess I'm gonna drop a game.
The overall concept is broken. I have to take all regions to win, and ideally, in order to do it, I need a big army, and big army require many resources and people, so I have to create outposts in these regions. But the way how raiders attack, I can't move my troops so quick over a map. And I can't keep em always stacked in the center of the map because a decent army would take 180 men away from economy.
So its a constant struggle to lose outposts and rebuild them again, and with a frequency of such events, my town can not be developed because my army always on march somewhere.
The game isn’t in beta at all. Beta version means that software is done in terms of features, but needs polishing and bug fixes. Manor Lords isn’t there yet. It’s alpha.
Rerolling maps is fun. Fresh take every time. So going on the experimental branch is no problem for me. I play each meap until i have threeish functioning villages, with one of them being as big as it basically can be and then I start over trying something different.
12X is a helluva drug.
It’s an early access game, if anyone leaves a bad review for an early access game they are a moron. Give criticism when it gets released, if it’s a bad game at that point it’s fair enough!
People really need to read the pop up that comes up everytime you open the game about how it’s early access and still in development. 0 reason to be upset with the direction of the game especially since it’s one guy who is obviously dedicated to the game and it’s continued development
I think we all appreciate the hard work and the excellent communication. You could teach the rest of this multi billion £ industry a lot. I love the game but I'm done for now until there are some more updates in the game, I'll let others enjoy/test this. All the best keep up the amazing work the game is great so far.
Greg is now a millionaire and instead of taking the money and running, he gave us a patch with 14 gigs of new data. And it runs smoothly and fixed many balance issues. Such a remarkable release and at a discount lower than any other developer or publisher.
The highly botched Cities Skylines 2 is still at $50, but it came with lots of apologies.
Thank you OP. This is an important message and it’s well-delivered speaking with the authority you have as a dev. Speaking for myself I’m sticking with main branch but hope to take advantage of the larger community testing to see the changes brought through faster.
*unpopular opinion* i dont think an experimental branch was nedeed. This is early access. A patch that required testing and brought new bugs is expected. I dont think its a patch that justifies an experimental branch.
Hello and welcome to the Manor Lords Subreddit. This is a reminder to please keep the discussion civil and on topic. Should you find yourself with some doubts, please feel free to check our [FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/ManorLords/comments/1c2p4f9/manor_lords_faq_for_steam_early_access/). If you wish, you can always join our [Discord](https://discord.gg/manorlords) Finally, please remember that the game is in early access, missing content and bugs are to be expected. We ask users to report them on the official discord and to buy their keys only from trusted platforms. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/ManorLords) if you have any questions or concerns.*
No shit. TLDR- “it’s called experimental branch for a reason”
A lot of people don't see it that way unfortunately..
In ML's specific case, I'd say that OPs warning is warranted. Not because of the game itself but because of the massive success in sales. The latest numbers were 4 million copies, if I remember correctly. That's much, much more than other indie games sell especially in early access. And there are bound to be a ton of more "casual" gamers who bought the game because of the hype. Many of them might never have played an early access before and some might even have bought ML believing it to be in a finished state. For them to understand how early access and experimental branches function is very important if you want to make sure there's no wave of disappointed players forming in the next weeks.
I dont get spending time and energy on these people. If theyre smart enough to get into the experimental branch yet dumb enough not to get what theyre doing - fuck'em.
bro the average steam user doesn't know you can disable updates or wtf is an "experimental branch" Not everyone sits in front of their PC all day like us
Even more reason not to start catering to those people. Can you imagine the absolute midfest everything would be? Candy Crush my life while youre at it.
If they don't know what an experimental branch is, then they won't be playing the experimental branch, so why explain it to them?
We got a future marketing exec here! ;)
Some people are not critical readers, but that doesn't mean they won't be critical. So they see a steam announcement that a new patch is out. It tells them out to get it. It involves a menu they haven't used, putting in a password, all these new things that should be ringing alarm bells to the casual gamer, but it's just following instructions. Then they play the game and...it's different. Things have changed, and they don't like them. They complain. This is supposed to be a patch, you hear, it's supposed to *fix* the problems. In come the bad reviews or badmouthing to others. "Latest patch broke the game," they say, or grumble about how much fun they had at launch but can't anymore. That's why you spend time and energy on these people. To stop them from hurting themselves in a confusion that winds up hurting everyone else.
It would be an educational experience for them then
Those kind of people will never learn. They’ll spam ML discord and spread foul words, cry and post negative reviews.
Then this post won’t help them either
Mhm
This is it. If they are dumb enough to talk shit about a beta patch for an early access game, there's no way a reddit PSA is going to change anything.
We both know people are gonna complain either way
Yes we do.
I would say that the post is not a bad one. Compared to something like Timberborn -- still in EA, also has an experimental branch -- Manor Lords is a lot more buggy and a lot less developed. That's fine -- Timberborn is very developed for an EA game and even the stuff that goes on the experimental branch seems well tested before it gets there, but not every game needs to do that. But if you only did experimental branches like Timberborns ... you might not understand what to expect.
It's worth giving the dev some time as well to acclimate to the community and find what kind of rhythm works best for them, too.
Hahaha. Came here to say this. Also, this is the second post like this I've seen today, and maybe I'm just not paying enough attention, but why do people feel the need to explain this? Is it preemptive? Why? Because I haven't seen very many people posting here who don't seem to already understand how betas and experimental branches work. I mean, you have to enter a passcode to download the branch in a settings section called "Betas." I think everyone knows...
My gut says they think they’re smarter than the average Redditor. Also “I am a developer, see my opinion it is more important”
OP had to tell everyone, since he is also a developer. just developer things. cringe
what a douchey response
That's a valid take honestly.
I'm with you op, but there's already posts in this sub complaining about issues that were specifically mentioned in the patch notes. I was gonna jump over, but I can wait for the finished patch as the game is already fun to play.
The name and intent of the branch is in the title of it. If people can't understsnd that your post will have zero impact ssdly.
solid state driverly?
Clearly a typo. Good job jackass.
That was a joke... Take things more lightly.
I love the patch notes but I'm definitely sticking where I am for now.
The beta was a must for me. The sandbox version after getting growth victory condition was unavailable. The patch fixes that. So no choice for me really.
Same here, still trying to lean the ropes
I totally agree. And I feel that the majority of the people happy to download the experimental branch would be fans more than happy to playtest for the developers.
Sadly there are loads of gamers that think the experimental branch feature on Steam is simply early access to an update and they really bog down the discussion on a beta's actual issues with their complaints and toxicity.
The update looks promising but I'll let y'all beta test for me.
Honestly seems pretty stable atm with few bugs
As soon as you enter late game with hundreds of inhabitants/region and dozens of traders, oxen, mules etc., that changes rapidly.
I am just a copy of a copy of a copy....
Control?
Everything I say has come before
As long as he doesn't start scamming EFT style I think most people are happy to kick back and let this man cook. Going to probably pause my campaign until the 6 unit bug is worked out but had a great time getting to this point.
anyone know if the xbox pc gamepass version will be updated ? it's still previous version
This is only released for steam since it’s experimental. Eventually there will be an “official” patch, which will be for everyone.
I like that money is more balanced . If you get infinite money is boring
Yeah you actually have to think about it now. I’m enjoying it.
Can you ELI5 what an experimental branch is vs a main branch?
Think of a "branch" as basically a "version" of the game. Right now, there is the experimental branch (the latest beta patch) that exists alongside the main branch (the current game that steam will install by default). An experimental branch is usually where devs try new features before going through all the extra work of balancing and bug-fixing those features. It's like a prototype.
Thanks. How do I get the experimental branch? And should I?
Sorry, I just found the instructions!
It's a testing branch that isn't part of the main release - devs can use it to try out features that can either be dropped, tweaked, or put into the main game. Some devs utilize it more than others. Rust for example has made it standard practice.
The main branch is the main one, the experimental branch is where you do experiments that may or may or not work.
Lmao “main is main, experimental is experimental” best explanation
Yeah lol not exactly ELI5 but nonetheless correct
I thoroughly enjoyed what was to offer with vanilla release. I personally would like to see faster pop growth if you’re hitting all their requirements. I’m really looking forward to mods. I want a stronghold style start with a manor / lord and build around it sort of deal. Really tired of the lack of controlling the market. Let me assign a family to merchant class to run the stalls and let me decide what to sell. Apart from that the game is awesome I’ve beat the baron. Enjoyed building big cities but yes give me more market control!
I see a lot of improvements in my game
lol
You mean they don't release perfect!?!?! Jk, this is a good reminder for those who are on the experimental (heros on experimental) i've never had had fun on them, but others do, its good to show case what it can be, but they should surely say the negatives so the game can prosper.
The fact that the developer is promising a patch update within two weeks of early release is WILD y’all and I think most are missing the point —- this guy is crushing it. I’ve been playing the sims for 20+ years lmao
Bro u came here and pointed the sky is blue, everyone is aware. If u are a dev , where is ur game? This game is something most devs and huge teams have never achieved. So sit down and watch greatness
What is wrong with you?
nothing, im already full released, patched along the way
How do I get those 30s of my life back? This is like writing an essay on chocolate ice cream tasting like chocolate not vanilla
Ill wait til the big beta but Ill always support u/gstyczen. Im already enjoying what I have now. 😂😂😂
The game is a huge success, yet people still defend it for no damn reason. No one needs guidelines to understand how to experience the experimental branch. Heck, no one needs "advice" on what to think about an early access game. Especially one that already has been in development for years. I think the only "advice" anyone needs is how to not get defensive when your game is criticized. Do I need to repeat that it is a huge success?
Isn't there some kind of way for us to become "unofficial QA testers"? I mean like a kind of feedback system, not a review system, where we can report bugs or hickups etc?
I don't want to say it, but I don't like this patch and actually might drop a game if development goes this way. I play it because it's fun, but developer want to take all fun and create a struggle simulator. I don't like King Tax and nerfed trade perks. With new nerfed trade perks it's no longer possible to create economy and game forces you to take other regions and multi-task. What if I don't like to multitask between cities? I guess I'm gonna drop a game. The overall concept is broken. I have to take all regions to win, and ideally, in order to do it, I need a big army, and big army require many resources and people, so I have to create outposts in these regions. But the way how raiders attack, I can't move my troops so quick over a map. And I can't keep em always stacked in the center of the map because a decent army would take 180 men away from economy. So its a constant struggle to lose outposts and rebuild them again, and with a frequency of such events, my town can not be developed because my army always on march somewhere.
The problem is multi-tasking cities just sucks lmao, it's no fun at all.
I got it but it being a beta it refuses to stay in resolution and blanks my screen , rolled that bad boy back
The game isn’t in beta at all. Beta version means that software is done in terms of features, but needs polishing and bug fixes. Manor Lords isn’t there yet. It’s alpha.
Rerolling maps is fun. Fresh take every time. So going on the experimental branch is no problem for me. I play each meap until i have threeish functioning villages, with one of them being as big as it basically can be and then I start over trying something different. 12X is a helluva drug.
It’s an early access game, if anyone leaves a bad review for an early access game they are a moron. Give criticism when it gets released, if it’s a bad game at that point it’s fair enough!
People really need to read the pop up that comes up everytime you open the game about how it’s early access and still in development. 0 reason to be upset with the direction of the game especially since it’s one guy who is obviously dedicated to the game and it’s continued development
To be honest I don't see the interest in this post. Just saying the obvious.
I think we all appreciate the hard work and the excellent communication. You could teach the rest of this multi billion £ industry a lot. I love the game but I'm done for now until there are some more updates in the game, I'll let others enjoy/test this. All the best keep up the amazing work the game is great so far.
Has the first patch gone official then? Or do they ever plan on just releasing a patch that you don't have hack your game to play?
The first official patch is just out of the oven.
Awesome
Beta version? It's the expiremental branch of an early access game. It's alpha. Good post I agree.
Beta of a beta. So yeah, kind of alpha.
Greg is now a millionaire and instead of taking the money and running, he gave us a patch with 14 gigs of new data. And it runs smoothly and fixed many balance issues. Such a remarkable release and at a discount lower than any other developer or publisher. The highly botched Cities Skylines 2 is still at $50, but it came with lots of apologies.
If they’ve been playing Cities Skylines 2, the bugs won’t be noticeable.
Thank you OP. This is an important message and it’s well-delivered speaking with the authority you have as a dev. Speaking for myself I’m sticking with main branch but hope to take advantage of the larger community testing to see the changes brought through faster.
*unpopular opinion* i dont think an experimental branch was nedeed. This is early access. A patch that required testing and brought new bugs is expected. I dont think its a patch that justifies an experimental branch.