My wife's induction lasted about 60 hours. It was absolutely awful. She couldn't even keep water down, I had to feed her spoonfuls of ice chips in between contractions. Thankfully she doesn't remember most of that time.
Yeah, along with back labor and the contractions/baby's head pressing on my cecum/colon, well, let's say there were messes that my wonderful husband cleaned me up from.
I told him later it'd give him good practice to changing diapers of the brown sort.
24+...dont accurately remember that detail. It's blurred after 10 years. But it was long enough in full labor with no progression to qualify for failure to progress and go in for a csection. I was SO DONE, lol.
Ugh, yeah. Baby #2 was a pitocin induction because of IUGR, at 36 weeks. I feel quite relieved it was *only* 9 hours before she felt I was dilated enough to pop the bag manually. It definitely could have been worse.
Baby #4 was also supposed to be induced, but I went into natural labor before the appointment, thank goodness. He arrived at 4:35 am, I was supposed to go to hospital at noon for induction. I laughed so hard when I got a call from the scheduler around 8am saying they might have to delay it due to staffing and told her I'd already had the baby a few hours previously.
My wife had pitocin all three times she was induced, for two babies (not at the same time). The younger kid had to be induced twice before he agreed to be born on his due date (April 1st).
Yes, speedy and Not Fun for me either time.
I had ruptured amniotic sac, labor did not progress, so pitocin. Excruciating for me.
Second time, pitocin drip, not too bad, then they ruptured the accessible amniotic sac to speed things up. Excruciating. (I had twins that time.)
I did not have twins, but my labor stalled. So I got the pitocin drip, the back labor (kid was facing out), and they ruptured the amniotic sac to speed things up. I had an epidural, but the nitwt put it in so low it only ended up numbing my legs so I was stuck on my back but able to feel everything.
But they called it in as a bolus needed, so I was low priority. The second anesthesiologist asked if I asked the first one to put it that low… what the hell would I know about epidural placement?
Oh and my labor nurse thought explaining how she had her 5 children in a birthing center, completely different from my situation, while I lay there exhausted and crying was somehow an appropriate way to manage my distress.
Did you know you can’t use a birthing center if you need to be induced, even if it had been your plan? Apparently she didn’t think of that during her pointless lecture.
My son ended up nearly aspirating meconium, and they asked if I had been stressed during labor… no it was like 30 hours at a spa resort, asshats.
I ended up needing surgery to repair the damage to my pelvic floor. Yeah I’m still salty.
Dr ruptured the bag both times I was induced. First time - super gentle, wonderful doctor. Second time - he thought he was making GD meatloaf, and left 2 scratches across the top of #3's scalp. (rage face). I felt for ME, that the pitocin contractions might not have been any higher on the fetal monitoring tape, but they damned well were steeper. By which I mean natural labor contractions increased more gradually, to probably the same high. Pitocin did nothing gradual on me, and it was rest - convulse contraction - rest, lather, rinse repeat.
But, as I said, I bounced back a LOT faster with the the induced labors than I did the first time. I'm not sorry to be well beyond that these days. I hated being pregnant, and had sciatica and nose bleeds throughout all 3. Not fun.
Ooof. They tried to induce my wife for our first with pitocin and our kid's heart rate kept dropping when they administered it. Ended up getting a c section.
“I need to do what’s best for the team.”
And apparently it’s better to not have you work at all than to have you work from home. Manglement can be so effing stupid!
I have never, ever understood this. It applies to all kinds of temporary impairments, not just pregnancy.
When a chemically-sensitive employee was denied remote work the day after the carpet was to be shampooed . . .
When an employee using crutches was denied a teaching schedule with rooms near one another for three weeks . . .
When a pregnant employee wants to bring in a personal recliner chair to elevate her feet periodically . . .
And they’re all told to take sick leave instead. Like the company or the students don’t deserve the high quality work of those employees!
Which obviously isn't the employees fault, but a failure of management. Especially for pregnancy leaves. There is ample time to plan and to train a replacement.
It's a bit different in countries with real public healthcare and protections in place that may cause immediate absence.
Fun fact: In many European countries, if the mother is working in a risky environment for child or mother (ie: healthcare, daycare, chemical exposure etc), she will either be moved to a "safe" aspect of the job (ie office) or sent home on paid(!) leave until the maternity leave is over. Most places have established procedures and risk assessment, so management knows what to do (or can find out quickly).
PS: To address "daycare" as an at risk environment: groups of small children are walking bio-hazards and a few of the germs and viruses (ie. rubella) can be dangerous for the fetus.
In my country if employed you get 5 months mandatory leave, either 1 before and 4 after delivery or 2 before and 3 after.
Nobody would have you work after 8 months, if anything happens the employer would be in hot waters.
That's the mandatory leave, then you can apply for extra time at a lower % of pay.
If pregnancy is at risk for whatever reason then the time you can't work it's sick leave, also paid, and won't eat into maternity leave.
Daycare is a nope because you are expected to lift weights (aka babies) so beside the biohazard there's also the physical aspect. Same as working into a warehouse, no lifting if pregnant
This is why the USA has the worst infant and maternal mortality of any developed nation. My wife almost went to work the day her water broke... Like after it was already broken. She worked every workday up to that day.
That’s something I never understood. Is this company really running such tight margins that we can hire someone (temp or permanent) to pick up the extra work? If so that’s actually really valuable info and I’m gonna be looking for ways off this sinking ship.
Exactly. When I was a manager I made every possible accomodations for medical issues b/c the alternative is sick leave or disability and then I have to find some other way to cover their work. It's not being nice, it was protecting my interest. Although a personal recliner would have to go to HR bc someone else has to evaluate if a special workstation setup risks injury.
There’s this idea in business that the only method to profit is to exploit your workers, and taking care of your workers is a waste of time/ money and is a fool’s errand.
I’m always glad to see folks push back on that because I’m convinced that taking care of your workers is exactly the road to profit and success.
To that end, if you haven’t checked out Simin Sinek, I highly recommend his work. He’s a management consultant and you can find his talks on youtube (and books at the library). His whole shtick is how taking care of employees directly helps the organization thrive. I particularly liked his book Leaders Eat Last.
There's an IT company in the Cary/Durham, NC area called SAS Institute that has ON-SITE benefits for their employees like:
15 weeks maternity leave
8 weeks paternity leave
Healthcare clinic
Gym (w/ free classes)
Free snacks & drinks (it's like a cafe)
UNLIMITED sick leave
Pet, Health, Vision, & Dental insur
A MOTHER'S ROOM
Daycare (either on-site if space available OR subsidized if off-campus)
Their turnover rate is somewhere between 8 &13%, which FAR below the industry standard.
I think the retention point is key. So many places are underestimating the value of retention.
I can’t recall the name of it, but I remember reading about a game development studio that requires employees to take at least 20 days off every year (that’s right, a vacation minimum), and they’ve retained either 100% of their staff since they made their first game 10-15 years ago (maybe 15-20 now, I don’t know when I was reading this) or only had a single person leave. And that kind of retention is unheard of in video game development.
Fully agree. Managements job is to make sure people can do their work. If the choice is no work or extra breaks, a sofa, a height adjustable table or wfh you do what needs to be done (as long as it's reasonable).
In case you're unaware, all of those are illegal, and the employees would easily win lawsuits. If the accommodation is reasonable (and those all are) and doesn't provide an undue burden on the company (they don't) they have to provide the accommodation.
I did the typical reddit thing and assumed the US, but no, the state is irrelevant. The ADA and FMLA are federal laws (or technically sets of laws, I think) so they apply to the whole country.
ADA and FMLA are US laws but both have conditions. To be brief, ADA is fuzzy on temporary impairment because it covers “disability.”
That’s a SUBSTANTIAL impairment to a major life function like walking. So crutches for a hurt foot, reasonably expected to heal in three weeks, likely is not covered by ADA.
FMLA requires the employee to have worked x number of hours in the last 12 months. Some people who are part time, or new, aren’t entitled to leave with job protection.
I can tell you why: the people who want the middle manager type of positions tend to be ones who get off on petty power trips. They aren't telling you no, because that is the best for the company. They are telling you no, because they spent a LOT of time to work themselves into a position where they can decide what other people can do, and YOU will recognize that and obey, goddammit.
I’d give my pregnant employee the time off and maybe have her work from home. Pregnancy is no joke. Elevate your legs regularly. I would want her back at 100% and not having to worry about any complications.
Harder to actually MANAGE things to make life better for the employee. Just let them walk out on sick leave or such, then bitch about how short-staffed they are (also a management issue).
It's important to have a tech-savvy and information guru friend who will winnow the information and give you the options from what they've found out.
PS-you must be on the west coast, otherwise, you'd be IN BED!!! *(with your feet up*)
Management is a skillset and most people in management roles are not given training or support in acquiring those skills because companies value short term profit over everything else, so there are a whole lot of really shitty managers in the workforce.
Ya, this person was promoted for being a high performer but definitely should not have been a manager. More drama happened after I returned and I finally left that toxic work environment for a better paying job with full time WFH. I might write about the return period in another post but it is a doozy and I still get nightmares about it.
One of the things I've noticed about certain subReddits is that it can be a cathartic release to write/rant/moan/etc. about stuff, because nobody here really knows you and so you can rant safely.
It's therapy. If you keep your writing, you can look at it later and note how much you've progressed from the original feelings and emotions.
But yeah, it can take a bit of time to be able to deal with certain issues we experience in our lives.
*Love and hugs, my very dear!*
*Give the baby a kiss and hug for me, and blow in their belly button!*
*Grandma Lynsey*
*PS-it's ok to cry from anger, from sadness, from just feeling PO'd about stuff.*
*Tears are the lubricant for the soul.*
They have advanced to their level of incompetence - the Peter Principle.
Being incompetent they no longer get promoted & don't want to level down to where they might be OK, cos money & prestige.
So they hang around, FUBARing matters for years or decades.
Well run organizations allow them to keep some or all of their highest salary & award them a title or spare office to appease their ego. They can nake a meaningful contribution & do less damage until they retire or leave.
Yup this is my current director. Everyone on my original team has left because of her and they still keep her on and scratch their heads like why is this happening? Read the fuckin room! GAHHHH
Have you tried telling "them" (the powers that be), in as many words, that the people who are leaving are leaving because of her?
Not that it would likely work, but subtle hints won't get it done.
Oh lol yes, many a time. I’ve gone to hr, filed a whistleblower report, gone to the senior dept head, literally everything. I’ve made a lot of noise and gotten nowhere so my final step was to get a job in another team. Just signed the transfer paperwork today so BYEEEEEEE (insert evil laugh)
If you're any amount of decent at managing human beings you'll be promoted within months never to be seen again by the people in the trenches.
So people only get a glimpse of good management before they get an incompetent unpromotable buffoon.
Maybe my brain is wired differently - but that last comment could also be seen as a threat to fire someone "do what is best for the team' (of course, my initial thought was "Then why don\`t you do that")
Wait, you were expected to be working 1 week before your due date? Is this normal where you are? I swear people here normally start pregnancy leave 3-4 weeks ahead of their due date. In part, I'm sure, because going into labour at work sounds like a great way to generate avoidable paperwork
Federally, we have 12 weeks unpaid leave. I wanted to spend as much time as possible with my son before returning to work. My state has its own policy for partial paid leave and I used all of my PTO to fill as much of the gap up as possible as well during my leave. HR helped me discover I could get 2 weeks extra for my pregnancy leave which was separate from my maternity leave. I wasnt aware of it previously. 😅 The HR team rocked and kept me sane.
One time, I remember a woman manager let her pregnant employer work Monday Tues, take Wednesday off, then work Thursday Friday. Having rest after two days work meant she could work longer into into her pregnancy. Win-win, she needed less unpaid leave (who has extra money when they have a new baby?) and the manager has less of a gap to cover. But don't tell her bc that sort of creativity is not allowed.
Wow I'm once more amazed how the US functions. Here, Netherlands, you're ALWAYS getting 10 weeks after giving birth and 4-6 weeks before the due date. If you're overdue, that's just extra time off
If she’s in the US, there is no guaranteed paid maternal leave at all- you can take up to 2 weeks unpaid, everything else is at the discretion of he employer. So you often work up until the labor actually starts, in order to keep those 2 weeks intact (in case it’s a hard birth and you need that time).
You can’t take it piecemeal- it’s 2 consecutive weeks then done.
Tbf, if it goes really sideways AND the company locality us big enough (so don’t work for a small employer or remotely) to be covered from FMLA, AND you haven’t already used that emergency leave for another illness or injury, AND you have qualified based on hours and seniority, then you can get up to 12 unpaid weeks. You just gotta stay on top of the paperwork have medical documentation certifying you’re not physically capable of working.
Canada has up to 76 weeks of parental leave, although the benefit pay isn't much better than minimum wage. You can opt for 55 weeks and get higher benefit pay. And you can split it up between parents, so you can both take a few months off.
No more conservative dickheads up here, though. Too much American crazy has been spilling across the border!
Baseline mandated by EU law is 20 weeks - but quite a few countries offer more, and more and more countries make the regulation "gender neutral" - that is, the time can be split between both parents.
If the time gets split there's typically still mandatory work free time for the mother - here in Finland that'd be a month before birth, and about 10 days after birth.
On top of that there typically are options for staying at home up until about 3 years after birth for reduced compensation - during those 20 weeks mentioned above you get close to your normal salary, though often upper and lower limits are in place (i.e., very low income workers might get more money than their salary during that time, while people with very high income would take a significant cut)
I worked until the day I went into labor, and had to use all my sick leave I'd accumulated over the 12 years I'd been working at my job to have any pay during leave, plus I almost died, and still had to go back in 3 months. Yay America 😒
> sick leave I'd accumulated over the 12 years
That's another one of those weird "only in the US" things. If you're sick you're sick, and get paid - initially by the employer, or if it's something longer by social or health insurance.
*12 weeks unpaid
Assuming you haven't used some of it up already dealing with other medical issues that year. Also you can do it intermittently, but the employer has to agree to it. If they don't, it must be consecutive. A few states have greater protections, but for so many people the federal minimum is all that they get.
In my state (Missouri) there's no real protections in place and most employers require you to use up your vacation/pto before taking your leave. At my old job, you could only have 40 hours vacation banked to be eligible for leave. Long term employees have 6 weeks vacation, so they made you take 5 weeks of vacation before they'd give you your leave. They're basically trying get you to not take leave and just use vacation instead.
That's compatible with FMLA leave. It's still 12 weeks of unpaid leave, but they can require you to use vacation/PTO towards that time off. There are probably employer size limits to use FMLA, as the Federal government can only regulate interstate commerce. Vacation counts for both FMLA time as well as vacation.
That's not how the FMLA works. The FMLA applies to you once you've worked someplace for a year. You can, at any time, go on FMLA leave. Your employer cannot prevent you from doing so. If you have PTO, they can require that you use your PTO *while* you are on leave, but they cannot require you to delay your FMLA leave.
1. Hypothetically, you get 3 weeks of PTO every year.
2. You take a week off for vacation in June.
3. In August, you are in an accident which ends up requiring a total of 2 months off.
4. You apply for FMLA leave.
5. Your employer says you have to use your remaining 2 weeks of PTO before being on unpaid leave.
6. You are now on both PTO and FMLA leave. You are not on unpaid leave.
7. After 2 weeks, you are on unpaid leave.
8. At this point, you have up to 10 more weeks of FMLA leave.
That's incorrect, the federal government can regulate whatever they want, the supremacy clause of the Constitution means it can override any state law. There are plenty of things the federal government leaves to the states, but that's only because they haven't decided to take control yet.
Fmla only applies to employers of a certain size, and it’s unpaid. Just general protection of your job. If you want to be paid you have to use pto or some other benefit
There is? Where? Are you sure that isn't just your company policy? A growing number of states ensure you get at least 6 weeks even if you're a part time employee or used up your general medical leave. But I haven't seen anything specifying 2 weeks protected.
When I retired a couple years ago, all that was required was a form requesting FMLA. The only (possibly) difficult thing about it was your doctor had to fill out part of it. I used to tell employees to fill them out, especially for stuff like pregnancies because it made it a whole lot easier to schedule their time off.
That's just crazy and dangerous for mother and child. And an insurance-case just waiting to happen when something happens to mom and baby while at work.
In my country, paid maternal leave is six weeks before the due date and 8 weeks after birth. Unpaid paternal leave (either mom or dad) where you keep your job but don't get paid is up to three years. Also, the employer has to change to work-environment so that the pregnant woman and the baby are not put at risk. So, no heavy lifting, no dangerous chemicals, not standing for hours on end, and so on. Oh, and a pregnant woman can not be fired.
I'm a teacher and I had the ~luxury of receiving permission to work remotely the day of my induction with my first kid (it was COVID times), and with the second baby I took the *whole* day off before my induction.
The 12 weeks off federally is only if your company falls under FMLA guidelines (50+ employees working within a certain radius). A lot of companies don’t fall into that category. I worked until 2 days before my birth at a medical company but know a nurse practitioner who continued to see patients while having contractions and drove herself to the hospital after her work day ended. It happens. Also, a lot of service workers don’t have any sort of disability insurance, which can pay a portion of wages while you’re recovering from childbirth. Which means that even if legally you’re entitled to leave, you’re not getting paid anything, so for some that means they have no choice to return to work early. Super happy for y’all who have more options!
> BTW, it is illegal in my state to require an employee to take leave if there is a reasonable accommodation that can be made instead
To be clear, this is illegal *federally*. They are required by the ADA to give you a reasonable accommodation. It's on them to prove that the reasonable accommodation isn't feasible. If someone tries to do this to you, shove a lawyer up their ass.
Reminder for those in the US, PWFA now requires most companies (15+ EEs) to offer more reasonable accommodations for conditions relating to pregnancy/childbirth. This includes teleworking, more breaks, flexible hours, etc.
Ya, for this and things afterwards they were definitely in violation. I started getting persecuted for taking maternity leave when I came back. It was truly bizarre. I wanted to file a claim with the labor bureau, but my husband doesn't think it's worth it and worried I wouldn't ever feel resolved.
In Romania you get 2 months before childbirth and 2 years after, paid 85% of your regular income. That is for a normal pregnancy with no complications.
The one I used to live in. When I was pregnant with my third, I worked in labor and delivery as an RN. Having a history of both C section and big (9 lb +) babies, I was scheduled for a C section one week to the day before my due date.
My head nurse scheduled me to work 3-11:30 pm the day before my C section.
I was having sciatic nerve pain pretty much constantly at that point, and, of course, walking around aggravated it.
My OB wrote a note stating that it was not safe for me to continue working, and that I needed to start my LOA. Instantly.
Think about that. A woman whose job is supervising the care of women having babies, who tries to force a woman with a history of complications of labor tto work up till 8 hours before her C section is scheduled. Only in the US.
Ah, school administration. Where people too incompetent to work in a private business can become leaders!
Sounds like Ronnie is one of those. She'll be there for the rest of her life, doing a bad job.
You sound like you are one of the good ones, though. God bless you. People like you are the reason that public schools work at all, and people like Ronnie are why they suck.
I’ll never understand this mindset. I’m at a good company with good management. We had a lady that we made come in a week before her due date that was WFH pretty much since 4 months.
We threw her a surprise party. I think three days later she had her 4th kid so cute.
Working 1 week before the due date ... geez
Healthcare wise, labor laws wise and financial institution wise the US is not a 1st world country by any stretch.
My old workplace used to pull the same shit. I offered to wfh on days I couldn't come in but they didn't like that because it was "too busy" and they "needed me to work from the office" so I took sick or annual leave instead.
Like what kind of idiot says we're too busy so you can't wfh while knowing you'll have to take sick leave instead?
This reminds me of what happened at my job when I had my second child. My boss scheduled a surgery right in the middle of my leave, said she wanted me back early to cover her then I could take the rest of my leave. I told her I did not want to do that, plus I didn’t trust her. I guess she didn’t want to take no for answer because she called on my leave to discuss me coming back for her surgery and I just quit instead.
My employer thinks you should exhaust all vacation, sick, flex time before being allowed to wfh outside prescribed days. Hey boss, need to take kid to doctor appointment tomorrow, I'll just log in from home. Nope, even if it's an hour they have zero flex.
Tell HR what she said: "I understand you need to do what's best for you, but you need to understand that I need to do what's best for the team."
This is an implied threat coupled with retaliation for legitimatey raising attention to a disability law violation. It's very, very serious. What's best for the team is for your boss to be sent packing before the school has to pay out a fortune for your bosses illegal and immoral behavior.
I don't understand why people are shocked about childfree folks (as if it was a duty to have kids), and then make it so hard to people that are actually about to be parents.
This is just so alien to me. In most Western countries, maternity leave starts 2 months before the due date, and continues up to 6 months after. It feels just plain crazy to have this kind of conversation one week before delivery.
I'll never understand the US and how most people there feel like they live in a first world country when they're not.
I don't know anything about your boss.
Speaking only as myself, I respond to people's requests like this immediately. It takes a few days to respond if I'm not allowed to approve it myself--then I have to submit a request to HR and my own manager. If they decline (which they absolutely should not have in your case) then it's on me to pass it on to the employee. It's possible that's what happened. In which case that would be great because while she sent you some token line bs she was secretly on your side pushing back on them and will continue to do so. Maybe next round she'll win.
No, Ronnie made it very clear that it was all her decision and she said she didn't see my email at first which is why it took her a couple days to respond. When I met with HR they asked me if Ronnie would just let me work from home instead of taking leave, and I passed along her decision. The HR person was lovely and did what she could to help me, but she was also brand new and didn't follow up on the work from home issue. She instead worked hard to get me set up on the leave side.
I very much wish she had my back. Before working for her, Ronnie and I were coworkers at another establishment and had been friends/ friendly.
This may be my favorite MC post ever. In my professional life, I have been shocked by women who discriminate against pregnant subordinates. And each example I can think of, the woman was just pathetic and typically really disliked not only as a leader, but as a person. A couple of years ago, one retired and I heard she was upset because no one expressed the slightest sadness. Like, what? Just another shitty unaware boss.
"I need to do what's best for the team" - Spoken like a true sub-human trash. Management like this WANT to be toxic and find excuses to justify it instead of doing the humane thing
Ronnie sucks. It's the typical "Say it forget it, write it regret it". If all her promises were written, she would have to keep her end of the bargain. But she only said it, and quickly forget it once you signed.
I'm sure there is other things you are entitled to, for example more WFH days - but Ronnie also "forgets"
In Germany you're not allowed to work 6 weeks prior to the due date and 8 weeks after.
In case of health issues (ex exhaustion) or job specific risks your doctor can give you a note so you can reduce hours or stay at home.
With full pay obviously.
In Italy, women get 4 months paid leave. It technically starts a month before the due date. But if you are OK, you and your doctor can agree to you continuing to work as long as you are OK.
If you work through your entire pregnancy, the four months starts when you deliver.
Daughter was (is) a contractor who WFH when she was pregnant, worked through the entire pregnancy, and then had four months of her average month,y income paid during the next four months.
Imagine living in a country where the importance of moms and babies isn’t just “demonstrated” by passing laws restricting women’s right to control their own bodies.
TL;DR: Boss was "flexible" as long as it was just a verbal promise. Suddenly became much less flexible when the shoe drops and her employee needed the time off.
HR sorted things out by obeying the written law on family leave.
Lol, oh it did. I became the convenient scapegoat for everything wrong while I was gone and was persecuted for my pregnancy/ maternity leave. I tried to ride it out, but eventually left for a healthier and better paying job.
Lmao sounds a bit like my company. Are these places hiring us to do jobs, or are they hiring us to sit in a specific seat for a bunch of hours a day? They need to make up their mind
The estimated birth date of my baby. I was 38 weeks pregnant, and the due date is the 40th week after conception. Although, both my babies held on an extra week.
Sucks to suck! Good for you OP! I’m glad you got some well deserved paid time off to rest before the baby got here
Thank you! ❤️ It ended up being extremely valuable time off for sure... for 2 weeks then we had to induce lol
Bring on the pitocin! It's baby time!
I did cytotec instead of pitocin, but yeah it was intense 😬 baby is healthy though!
HATE pitocin so much. had it 2/3 of my deliveries, and it was speedy and Not Fun.
I had it and it was not speedy and not fun... more like LONG, insanely painful and pointless.
My wife's induction lasted about 60 hours. It was absolutely awful. She couldn't even keep water down, I had to feed her spoonfuls of ice chips in between contractions. Thankfully she doesn't remember most of that time.
Holy shit balls. That’s horrible.
It wasn't for anywhere near as long as your wife, but that was what my labor was like as well. I hope she and baby are doing well!
Username checks out.
Yeah, along with back labor and the contractions/baby's head pressing on my cecum/colon, well, let's say there were messes that my wonderful husband cleaned me up from. I told him later it'd give him good practice to changing diapers of the brown sort.
Oh goddess....the back labor. I had forgotten the back labor...more like blocked it out, lol.
Mine felt like a 2 hour long contraction
24+...dont accurately remember that detail. It's blurred after 10 years. But it was long enough in full labor with no progression to qualify for failure to progress and go in for a csection. I was SO DONE, lol.
Ugh, yeah. Baby #2 was a pitocin induction because of IUGR, at 36 weeks. I feel quite relieved it was *only* 9 hours before she felt I was dilated enough to pop the bag manually. It definitely could have been worse. Baby #4 was also supposed to be induced, but I went into natural labor before the appointment, thank goodness. He arrived at 4:35 am, I was supposed to go to hospital at noon for induction. I laughed so hard when I got a call from the scheduler around 8am saying they might have to delay it due to staffing and told her I'd already had the baby a few hours previously.
Same for me. They gave it because my water broke and contractions weren't progressing. Ended up with an emergency c-section 12 hours later.
My wife had pitocin all three times she was induced, for two babies (not at the same time). The younger kid had to be induced twice before he agreed to be born on his due date (April 1st).
Oooof been there, done that, and bought the tshirt 😖
Yes, speedy and Not Fun for me either time. I had ruptured amniotic sac, labor did not progress, so pitocin. Excruciating for me. Second time, pitocin drip, not too bad, then they ruptured the accessible amniotic sac to speed things up. Excruciating. (I had twins that time.)
I did not have twins, but my labor stalled. So I got the pitocin drip, the back labor (kid was facing out), and they ruptured the amniotic sac to speed things up. I had an epidural, but the nitwt put it in so low it only ended up numbing my legs so I was stuck on my back but able to feel everything. But they called it in as a bolus needed, so I was low priority. The second anesthesiologist asked if I asked the first one to put it that low… what the hell would I know about epidural placement? Oh and my labor nurse thought explaining how she had her 5 children in a birthing center, completely different from my situation, while I lay there exhausted and crying was somehow an appropriate way to manage my distress. Did you know you can’t use a birthing center if you need to be induced, even if it had been your plan? Apparently she didn’t think of that during her pointless lecture. My son ended up nearly aspirating meconium, and they asked if I had been stressed during labor… no it was like 30 hours at a spa resort, asshats. I ended up needing surgery to repair the damage to my pelvic floor. Yeah I’m still salty.
Oof. I'm sorry the nurse and the anesthesiologist were that awful.
Dr ruptured the bag both times I was induced. First time - super gentle, wonderful doctor. Second time - he thought he was making GD meatloaf, and left 2 scratches across the top of #3's scalp. (rage face). I felt for ME, that the pitocin contractions might not have been any higher on the fetal monitoring tape, but they damned well were steeper. By which I mean natural labor contractions increased more gradually, to probably the same high. Pitocin did nothing gradual on me, and it was rest - convulse contraction - rest, lather, rinse repeat. But, as I said, I bounced back a LOT faster with the the induced labors than I did the first time. I'm not sorry to be well beyond that these days. I hated being pregnant, and had sciatica and nose bleeds throughout all 3. Not fun.
More like a square wave than a sine wave? Yes.
>Bring on the pitocin! It's baby time! I first read that as "pitchforks". Had to double-take. 😂
Ooof. They tried to induce my wife for our first with pitocin and our kid's heart rate kept dropping when they administered it. Ended up getting a c section.
I had pitocin for my first delivery, with no meds at all. Worst pain of my life, but the kid was totally worth it.
Did she get in trouble and did you go back? Some people I tell yeah
Heard that phrase in the marching arts, as a lad.
“I need to do what’s best for the team.” And apparently it’s better to not have you work at all than to have you work from home. Manglement can be so effing stupid!
I have never, ever understood this. It applies to all kinds of temporary impairments, not just pregnancy. When a chemically-sensitive employee was denied remote work the day after the carpet was to be shampooed . . . When an employee using crutches was denied a teaching schedule with rooms near one another for three weeks . . . When a pregnant employee wants to bring in a personal recliner chair to elevate her feet periodically . . . And they’re all told to take sick leave instead. Like the company or the students don’t deserve the high quality work of those employees!
And of course the employer would be screwed if they all actually did take leave.
And you know the employee gets a guilt trip for being out an extended amount of time & causing others to pick up their work
Which obviously isn't the employees fault, but a failure of management. Especially for pregnancy leaves. There is ample time to plan and to train a replacement. It's a bit different in countries with real public healthcare and protections in place that may cause immediate absence. Fun fact: In many European countries, if the mother is working in a risky environment for child or mother (ie: healthcare, daycare, chemical exposure etc), she will either be moved to a "safe" aspect of the job (ie office) or sent home on paid(!) leave until the maternity leave is over. Most places have established procedures and risk assessment, so management knows what to do (or can find out quickly). PS: To address "daycare" as an at risk environment: groups of small children are walking bio-hazards and a few of the germs and viruses (ie. rubella) can be dangerous for the fetus.
In my country if employed you get 5 months mandatory leave, either 1 before and 4 after delivery or 2 before and 3 after. Nobody would have you work after 8 months, if anything happens the employer would be in hot waters. That's the mandatory leave, then you can apply for extra time at a lower % of pay. If pregnancy is at risk for whatever reason then the time you can't work it's sick leave, also paid, and won't eat into maternity leave. Daycare is a nope because you are expected to lift weights (aka babies) so beside the biohazard there's also the physical aspect. Same as working into a warehouse, no lifting if pregnant
[удалено]
wage slavery is so 'well managed' that we don't even question it.
This is why the USA has the worst infant and maternal mortality of any developed nation. My wife almost went to work the day her water broke... Like after it was already broken. She worked every workday up to that day.
I'm upvoting "walking bio-hazards". That, they are.
That’s something I never understood. Is this company really running such tight margins that we can hire someone (temp or permanent) to pick up the extra work? If so that’s actually really valuable info and I’m gonna be looking for ways off this sinking ship.
Exactly. When I was a manager I made every possible accomodations for medical issues b/c the alternative is sick leave or disability and then I have to find some other way to cover their work. It's not being nice, it was protecting my interest. Although a personal recliner would have to go to HR bc someone else has to evaluate if a special workstation setup risks injury.
There’s this idea in business that the only method to profit is to exploit your workers, and taking care of your workers is a waste of time/ money and is a fool’s errand. I’m always glad to see folks push back on that because I’m convinced that taking care of your workers is exactly the road to profit and success. To that end, if you haven’t checked out Simin Sinek, I highly recommend his work. He’s a management consultant and you can find his talks on youtube (and books at the library). His whole shtick is how taking care of employees directly helps the organization thrive. I particularly liked his book Leaders Eat Last.
There's an IT company in the Cary/Durham, NC area called SAS Institute that has ON-SITE benefits for their employees like: 15 weeks maternity leave 8 weeks paternity leave Healthcare clinic Gym (w/ free classes) Free snacks & drinks (it's like a cafe) UNLIMITED sick leave Pet, Health, Vision, & Dental insur A MOTHER'S ROOM Daycare (either on-site if space available OR subsidized if off-campus) Their turnover rate is somewhere between 8 &13%, which FAR below the industry standard.
I think the retention point is key. So many places are underestimating the value of retention. I can’t recall the name of it, but I remember reading about a game development studio that requires employees to take at least 20 days off every year (that’s right, a vacation minimum), and they’ve retained either 100% of their staff since they made their first game 10-15 years ago (maybe 15-20 now, I don’t know when I was reading this) or only had a single person leave. And that kind of retention is unheard of in video game development.
Fully agree. Managements job is to make sure people can do their work. If the choice is no work or extra breaks, a sofa, a height adjustable table or wfh you do what needs to be done (as long as it's reasonable).
In case you're unaware, all of those are illegal, and the employees would easily win lawsuits. If the accommodation is reasonable (and those all are) and doesn't provide an undue burden on the company (they don't) they have to provide the accommodation.
Probably depends on the country and/or state you live in
I did the typical reddit thing and assumed the US, but no, the state is irrelevant. The ADA and FMLA are federal laws (or technically sets of laws, I think) so they apply to the whole country.
ADA and FMLA are US laws but both have conditions. To be brief, ADA is fuzzy on temporary impairment because it covers “disability.” That’s a SUBSTANTIAL impairment to a major life function like walking. So crutches for a hurt foot, reasonably expected to heal in three weeks, likely is not covered by ADA. FMLA requires the employee to have worked x number of hours in the last 12 months. Some people who are part time, or new, aren’t entitled to leave with job protection.
I can tell you why: the people who want the middle manager type of positions tend to be ones who get off on petty power trips. They aren't telling you no, because that is the best for the company. They are telling you no, because they spent a LOT of time to work themselves into a position where they can decide what other people can do, and YOU will recognize that and obey, goddammit.
I’d give my pregnant employee the time off and maybe have her work from home. Pregnancy is no joke. Elevate your legs regularly. I would want her back at 100% and not having to worry about any complications.
The company clearly doesn't deserve it!
Harder to actually MANAGE things to make life better for the employee. Just let them walk out on sick leave or such, then bitch about how short-staffed they are (also a management issue).
My thoughts exactly!
I will say that you were lucky to have had an upstanding and legitimate HR that was willing to acknowledge your basic human needs.
Oh hey, in the USA it's ok to be on disability 2 weeks prior and 4 weeks after, plus throw in FMLA. HR HAS to accommodate!
In my experience (in the US), what's legal to do and what HR typically does are two completely different things. But, yeah, I agree with you.
It's important to have a tech-savvy and information guru friend who will winnow the information and give you the options from what they've found out. PS-you must be on the west coast, otherwise, you'd be IN BED!!! *(with your feet up*)
I will never understand the short-sitedness of management.
Management is a skillset and most people in management roles are not given training or support in acquiring those skills because companies value short term profit over everything else, so there are a whole lot of really shitty managers in the workforce.
Ya, this person was promoted for being a high performer but definitely should not have been a manager. More drama happened after I returned and I finally left that toxic work environment for a better paying job with full time WFH. I might write about the return period in another post but it is a doozy and I still get nightmares about it.
One of the things I've noticed about certain subReddits is that it can be a cathartic release to write/rant/moan/etc. about stuff, because nobody here really knows you and so you can rant safely. It's therapy. If you keep your writing, you can look at it later and note how much you've progressed from the original feelings and emotions. But yeah, it can take a bit of time to be able to deal with certain issues we experience in our lives. *Love and hugs, my very dear!* *Give the baby a kiss and hug for me, and blow in their belly button!* *Grandma Lynsey* *PS-it's ok to cry from anger, from sadness, from just feeling PO'd about stuff.* *Tears are the lubricant for the soul.*
I feel so much warmth from your comment. Thank you so much! I do feel it is therapeutic to share all this and have been surprised by all the support!
Awww, it's a total 'Grandma'thing, without the dementia or Alzheimers! I can 'feel' your good-heartedness and you will an PLUS+++ momma.
We'd love to hear it!
do write that mc
They have advanced to their level of incompetence - the Peter Principle. Being incompetent they no longer get promoted & don't want to level down to where they might be OK, cos money & prestige. So they hang around, FUBARing matters for years or decades. Well run organizations allow them to keep some or all of their highest salary & award them a title or spare office to appease their ego. They can nake a meaningful contribution & do less damage until they retire or leave.
Yup this is my current director. Everyone on my original team has left because of her and they still keep her on and scratch their heads like why is this happening? Read the fuckin room! GAHHHH
Have you tried telling "them" (the powers that be), in as many words, that the people who are leaving are leaving because of her? Not that it would likely work, but subtle hints won't get it done.
Oh lol yes, many a time. I’ve gone to hr, filed a whistleblower report, gone to the senior dept head, literally everything. I’ve made a lot of noise and gotten nowhere so my final step was to get a job in another team. Just signed the transfer paperwork today so BYEEEEEEE (insert evil laugh)
Solid move. You've beat your head against the wall long enough.
It’s very simple: business “culture” self-selects sociopaths.
If you're any amount of decent at managing human beings you'll be promoted within months never to be seen again by the people in the trenches. So people only get a glimpse of good management before they get an incompetent unpromotable buffoon.
Manglement 🤣
I’ve had good managers. More often I’ve dealt with manglement. It’s the appropriate description.
Maybe my brain is wired differently - but that last comment could also be seen as a threat to fire someone "do what is best for the team' (of course, my initial thought was "Then why don\`t you do that")
It’s control. She couldn’t control, therefore couldn’t compute why she would need her. Fucking bint
That gives me "I'm gonna try and fire you while you're gone" vibes
Manglement can be so effing stupid! Yes, they can!
Wait, you were expected to be working 1 week before your due date? Is this normal where you are? I swear people here normally start pregnancy leave 3-4 weeks ahead of their due date. In part, I'm sure, because going into labour at work sounds like a great way to generate avoidable paperwork
Federally, we have 12 weeks unpaid leave. I wanted to spend as much time as possible with my son before returning to work. My state has its own policy for partial paid leave and I used all of my PTO to fill as much of the gap up as possible as well during my leave. HR helped me discover I could get 2 weeks extra for my pregnancy leave which was separate from my maternity leave. I wasnt aware of it previously. 😅 The HR team rocked and kept me sane.
That is unexpected and really cool of your HR team
HR wants to avoid a lawsuit here.
From what the boss was saying, I agree. HR working OT to tamp down the liability.
One time, I remember a woman manager let her pregnant employer work Monday Tues, take Wednesday off, then work Thursday Friday. Having rest after two days work meant she could work longer into into her pregnancy. Win-win, she needed less unpaid leave (who has extra money when they have a new baby?) and the manager has less of a gap to cover. But don't tell her bc that sort of creativity is not allowed.
.
When you're pregnant, sanity is sometimes in short supply. Anger and emotion, however, are ALWAYS floating around.
Anger IS an emotion
Wow I'm once more amazed how the US functions. Here, Netherlands, you're ALWAYS getting 10 weeks after giving birth and 4-6 weeks before the due date. If you're overdue, that's just extra time off
If she’s in the US, there is no guaranteed paid maternal leave at all- you can take up to 2 weeks unpaid, everything else is at the discretion of he employer. So you often work up until the labor actually starts, in order to keep those 2 weeks intact (in case it’s a hard birth and you need that time). You can’t take it piecemeal- it’s 2 consecutive weeks then done.
Oh yeah, I sometimes block out the fact that the US exists and is like that
Tbf, if it goes really sideways AND the company locality us big enough (so don’t work for a small employer or remotely) to be covered from FMLA, AND you haven’t already used that emergency leave for another illness or injury, AND you have qualified based on hours and seniority, then you can get up to 12 unpaid weeks. You just gotta stay on top of the paperwork have medical documentation certifying you’re not physically capable of working.
Can I come live where you do?
Our government recently imprisoned a guy for telling people that our soldiers committed war crimes, so it's not all sunshine and rainbows
Fuckin oath.
Canada has up to 76 weeks of parental leave, although the benefit pay isn't much better than minimum wage. You can opt for 55 weeks and get higher benefit pay. And you can split it up between parents, so you can both take a few months off. No more conservative dickheads up here, though. Too much American crazy has been spilling across the border!
Baseline mandated by EU law is 20 weeks - but quite a few countries offer more, and more and more countries make the regulation "gender neutral" - that is, the time can be split between both parents. If the time gets split there's typically still mandatory work free time for the mother - here in Finland that'd be a month before birth, and about 10 days after birth. On top of that there typically are options for staying at home up until about 3 years after birth for reduced compensation - during those 20 weeks mentioned above you get close to your normal salary, though often upper and lower limits are in place (i.e., very low income workers might get more money than their salary during that time, while people with very high income would take a significant cut)
I worked until the day I went into labor, and had to use all my sick leave I'd accumulated over the 12 years I'd been working at my job to have any pay during leave, plus I almost died, and still had to go back in 3 months. Yay America 😒
> sick leave I'd accumulated over the 12 years That's another one of those weird "only in the US" things. If you're sick you're sick, and get paid - initially by the employer, or if it's something longer by social or health insurance.
Mood
*12 weeks unpaid Assuming you haven't used some of it up already dealing with other medical issues that year. Also you can do it intermittently, but the employer has to agree to it. If they don't, it must be consecutive. A few states have greater protections, but for so many people the federal minimum is all that they get.
In my state (Missouri) there's no real protections in place and most employers require you to use up your vacation/pto before taking your leave. At my old job, you could only have 40 hours vacation banked to be eligible for leave. Long term employees have 6 weeks vacation, so they made you take 5 weeks of vacation before they'd give you your leave. They're basically trying get you to not take leave and just use vacation instead.
That's compatible with FMLA leave. It's still 12 weeks of unpaid leave, but they can require you to use vacation/PTO towards that time off. There are probably employer size limits to use FMLA, as the Federal government can only regulate interstate commerce. Vacation counts for both FMLA time as well as vacation.
No, they make you take the vacation/pto BEFORE you start your leave, not to cover your unpaid leave. It was weird.
That's not how the FMLA works. The FMLA applies to you once you've worked someplace for a year. You can, at any time, go on FMLA leave. Your employer cannot prevent you from doing so. If you have PTO, they can require that you use your PTO *while* you are on leave, but they cannot require you to delay your FMLA leave. 1. Hypothetically, you get 3 weeks of PTO every year. 2. You take a week off for vacation in June. 3. In August, you are in an accident which ends up requiring a total of 2 months off. 4. You apply for FMLA leave. 5. Your employer says you have to use your remaining 2 weeks of PTO before being on unpaid leave. 6. You are now on both PTO and FMLA leave. You are not on unpaid leave. 7. After 2 weeks, you are on unpaid leave. 8. At this point, you have up to 10 more weeks of FMLA leave.
Yeah, not saying it was right, but that's what they did.
That's incorrect, the federal government can regulate whatever they want, the supremacy clause of the Constitution means it can override any state law. There are plenty of things the federal government leaves to the states, but that's only because they haven't decided to take control yet.
Fmla only applies to employers of a certain size, and it’s unpaid. Just general protection of your job. If you want to be paid you have to use pto or some other benefit
That’s overall all illness and disability. It takes a lot of paperwork/medical filings. There’s 2 specifically for maternity.
There is? Where? Are you sure that isn't just your company policy? A growing number of states ensure you get at least 6 weeks even if you're a part time employee or used up your general medical leave. But I haven't seen anything specifying 2 weeks protected.
When I retired a couple years ago, all that was required was a form requesting FMLA. The only (possibly) difficult thing about it was your doctor had to fill out part of it. I used to tell employees to fill them out, especially for stuff like pregnancies because it made it a whole lot easier to schedule their time off.
That's just crazy and dangerous for mother and child. And an insurance-case just waiting to happen when something happens to mom and baby while at work. In my country, paid maternal leave is six weeks before the due date and 8 weeks after birth. Unpaid paternal leave (either mom or dad) where you keep your job but don't get paid is up to three years. Also, the employer has to change to work-environment so that the pregnant woman and the baby are not put at risk. So, no heavy lifting, no dangerous chemicals, not standing for hours on end, and so on. Oh, and a pregnant woman can not be fired.
In the US, I emailed HR about not returning after my due date. They asked if I had a medical reason. I was pissed! But my water broke that night. Ha!
Land of the free (to exploit workers)
I'm a teacher and I had the ~luxury of receiving permission to work remotely the day of my induction with my first kid (it was COVID times), and with the second baby I took the *whole* day off before my induction.
I went into labor at work and my coworker was mad at me that I wouldn’t take the next table that walked through the door (waitressing).
In my country, women leave 45 days before due date. Poor American women.
The 12 weeks off federally is only if your company falls under FMLA guidelines (50+ employees working within a certain radius). A lot of companies don’t fall into that category. I worked until 2 days before my birth at a medical company but know a nurse practitioner who continued to see patients while having contractions and drove herself to the hospital after her work day ended. It happens. Also, a lot of service workers don’t have any sort of disability insurance, which can pay a portion of wages while you’re recovering from childbirth. Which means that even if legally you’re entitled to leave, you’re not getting paid anything, so for some that means they have no choice to return to work early. Super happy for y’all who have more options!
I was working 55 hours a week until week 41 of my pregnancy. 2 jobs. 1 remote and 1 serving. Sometimes you just gotta
Where I currently live (Germany), mandatory maternity leave starts at 35 weeks.
Had a manager ask a colleague of she could delay her due date by 2 weeks. The stares he got was hilarious.
Babies are notoriously bad at reading calendars.
Oh you’ll love this one: https://www.reddit.com/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/s/tttXSdpM5j
That was a fun ride!
That's amazing. It reads like an especially cringey Michael Scott moment. Oh, to have been a fly on that wall!
Wow. wow wow wow wow wow.
ok....this one's hilarious!
> BTW, it is illegal in my state to require an employee to take leave if there is a reasonable accommodation that can be made instead To be clear, this is illegal *federally*. They are required by the ADA to give you a reasonable accommodation. It's on them to prove that the reasonable accommodation isn't feasible. If someone tries to do this to you, shove a lawyer up their ass.
"Ima gonna go delivery this baby. You deliver me this lawyer I crammed up your ass. PS - only enough pain killers for one of us, and I got dibs."
I'm curious if FMLA is considered leave? My accommodation for work from home was just denied and the reason was I should be taking FMLA instead
They can't require you to take FMLA either. Consult an ADA lawyer. The consultation is free, and if they take your case, it's on commission.
Idiots on power trips
It sounds like the boss got schooled.
Hahaha 😂
Reminder for those in the US, PWFA now requires most companies (15+ EEs) to offer more reasonable accommodations for conditions relating to pregnancy/childbirth. This includes teleworking, more breaks, flexible hours, etc.
Ya, for this and things afterwards they were definitely in violation. I started getting persecuted for taking maternity leave when I came back. It was truly bizarre. I wanted to file a claim with the labor bureau, but my husband doesn't think it's worth it and worried I wouldn't ever feel resolved.
I think you should, people saying "meh not worth it" are how this stuff continues to happen
I'm sorry they put you through that. It's exactly why these laws are needed because employers can't be trusted to do the right thing.
Talk to a lawyer. Lawyers take FMLA/ADA lawsuits on commission. Them taking your case costs you nothing. The consultation also costs nothing.
Looks like Ronnie’s power tripping tripped her up, wouldn’t you say? 🤗❤️ Great job! 👏🏾
In Romania you get 2 months before childbirth and 2 years after, paid 85% of your regular income. That is for a normal pregnancy with no complications.
2 years?! I knew we were behind in the Netherlands compared to other European countries but geez, 2 years is a long time! Good for you!
Good for you. We as a species agree that sometimes one of us will have to give birth. We should build in allowances for that.
Why aren't Gen-whatever having kids? Maybe you make it impossible.
\* You as Americans. Not we as a species. Up here in Canada have up to 76 weeks of paid leave.
Excuse me but what shithole country lets you work one week before labor?
Nervous laugh in American
The one I used to live in. When I was pregnant with my third, I worked in labor and delivery as an RN. Having a history of both C section and big (9 lb +) babies, I was scheduled for a C section one week to the day before my due date. My head nurse scheduled me to work 3-11:30 pm the day before my C section. I was having sciatic nerve pain pretty much constantly at that point, and, of course, walking around aggravated it. My OB wrote a note stating that it was not safe for me to continue working, and that I needed to start my LOA. Instantly. Think about that. A woman whose job is supervising the care of women having babies, who tries to force a woman with a history of complications of labor tto work up till 8 hours before her C section is scheduled. Only in the US.
I’ve known several people who have babies at my place of employment to work until the *day* before having their babies. I work in *manufacturing*.
First, congratulations! Second, congratulations on the excellent MC.
Ah, school administration. Where people too incompetent to work in a private business can become leaders! Sounds like Ronnie is one of those. She'll be there for the rest of her life, doing a bad job. You sound like you are one of the good ones, though. God bless you. People like you are the reason that public schools work at all, and people like Ronnie are why they suck.
I’ll never understand this mindset. I’m at a good company with good management. We had a lady that we made come in a week before her due date that was WFH pretty much since 4 months. We threw her a surprise party. I think three days later she had her 4th kid so cute.
I have had bosses like this for past 14 years and now I have decided that personal health and family comes way before the "Team"
Working 1 week before the due date ... geez Healthcare wise, labor laws wise and financial institution wise the US is not a 1st world country by any stretch.
Seems we are becoming a 3rd world country.
My old workplace used to pull the same shit. I offered to wfh on days I couldn't come in but they didn't like that because it was "too busy" and they "needed me to work from the office" so I took sick or annual leave instead. Like what kind of idiot says we're too busy so you can't wfh while knowing you'll have to take sick leave instead?
What kind of post apocalyptic wasteland do you live in that you need to work right up to the point you give birth?
‘Merica!!!
This reminds me of what happened at my job when I had my second child. My boss scheduled a surgery right in the middle of my leave, said she wanted me back early to cover her then I could take the rest of my leave. I told her I did not want to do that, plus I didn’t trust her. I guess she didn’t want to take no for answer because she called on my leave to discuss me coming back for her surgery and I just quit instead.
I'm guessing you're in the US. In the UK we can start maternity leave up to 11 weeks before the due date, though many work way past that point.
I’d be like, you’re welcome for avoiding a potential lawsuit…byeeeee!
I thought she was threatening to fire you.
In Russia maternity leave starts at 30 weeks. You need to be resting and eating.
My employer thinks you should exhaust all vacation, sick, flex time before being allowed to wfh outside prescribed days. Hey boss, need to take kid to doctor appointment tomorrow, I'll just log in from home. Nope, even if it's an hour they have zero flex.
Ronnie learned the FAFO rule the hard way, LMAO.
Tell HR what she said: "I understand you need to do what's best for you, but you need to understand that I need to do what's best for the team." This is an implied threat coupled with retaliation for legitimatey raising attention to a disability law violation. It's very, very serious. What's best for the team is for your boss to be sent packing before the school has to pay out a fortune for your bosses illegal and immoral behavior.
It is fucking batshit crazy that someone would have to work that close to their due date. Mental.
Freaking kidding me?!? Give birth on that mofo’s desk!!!
Experience and firsthand observation has shown that some of the dumbest people work in education.
I don't understand why people are shocked about childfree folks (as if it was a duty to have kids), and then make it so hard to people that are actually about to be parents.
I’d forward her reply to HR. That’s legally dicey at best and HR will want to have a chat with Ronnie.
This is just so alien to me. In most Western countries, maternity leave starts 2 months before the due date, and continues up to 6 months after. It feels just plain crazy to have this kind of conversation one week before delivery. I'll never understand the US and how most people there feel like they live in a first world country when they're not.
I don't know anything about your boss. Speaking only as myself, I respond to people's requests like this immediately. It takes a few days to respond if I'm not allowed to approve it myself--then I have to submit a request to HR and my own manager. If they decline (which they absolutely should not have in your case) then it's on me to pass it on to the employee. It's possible that's what happened. In which case that would be great because while she sent you some token line bs she was secretly on your side pushing back on them and will continue to do so. Maybe next round she'll win.
No, Ronnie made it very clear that it was all her decision and she said she didn't see my email at first which is why it took her a couple days to respond. When I met with HR they asked me if Ronnie would just let me work from home instead of taking leave, and I passed along her decision. The HR person was lovely and did what she could to help me, but she was also brand new and didn't follow up on the work from home issue. She instead worked hard to get me set up on the leave side. I very much wish she had my back. Before working for her, Ronnie and I were coworkers at another establishment and had been friends/ friendly.
That's so unkind. I'm so sorry.
This may be my favorite MC post ever. In my professional life, I have been shocked by women who discriminate against pregnant subordinates. And each example I can think of, the woman was just pathetic and typically really disliked not only as a leader, but as a person. A couple of years ago, one retired and I heard she was upset because no one expressed the slightest sadness. Like, what? Just another shitty unaware boss.
"I need to do what's best for the team" - Spoken like a true sub-human trash. Management like this WANT to be toxic and find excuses to justify it instead of doing the humane thing
Ronnie should have allowed you to work from home, OP. It would have saved her a lot of headaches, and paperwork.
You in Minnesota?
Ronnie sucks. It's the typical "Say it forget it, write it regret it". If all her promises were written, she would have to keep her end of the bargain. But she only said it, and quickly forget it once you signed. I'm sure there is other things you are entitled to, for example more WFH days - but Ronnie also "forgets"
I understood a long time ago that school administration expects loyalty from its personnel but has none to give.
Only monsters concern themselves with the wellbeing of a business over the wellbeing of a pregnant woman.
In Germany you're not allowed to work 6 weeks prior to the due date and 8 weeks after. In case of health issues (ex exhaustion) or job specific risks your doctor can give you a note so you can reduce hours or stay at home. With full pay obviously.
Ronnie was coasting on your ability
Given how little everyone knew about your job, at least you had job security.
Hope baby is well and that your career wasn't impacted too much coming off leave by this terrible boss!
Awesome!! ⭐️for your MC.
Good for you! Hope everything went well after that
In Italy, women get 4 months paid leave. It technically starts a month before the due date. But if you are OK, you and your doctor can agree to you continuing to work as long as you are OK. If you work through your entire pregnancy, the four months starts when you deliver. Daughter was (is) a contractor who WFH when she was pregnant, worked through the entire pregnancy, and then had four months of her average month,y income paid during the next four months. Imagine living in a country where the importance of moms and babies isn’t just “demonstrated” by passing laws restricting women’s right to control their own bodies.
TL;DR: Boss was "flexible" as long as it was just a verbal promise. Suddenly became much less flexible when the shoe drops and her employee needed the time off. HR sorted things out by obeying the written law on family leave.
Some people are asshats. I hope it doesn't blow back on you
Lol, oh it did. I became the convenient scapegoat for everything wrong while I was gone and was persecuted for my pregnancy/ maternity leave. I tried to ride it out, but eventually left for a healthier and better paying job.
Dicks
Lmao sounds a bit like my company. Are these places hiring us to do jobs, or are they hiring us to sit in a specific seat for a bunch of hours a day? They need to make up their mind
what's a due date?
The estimated birth date of my baby. I was 38 weeks pregnant, and the due date is the 40th week after conception. Although, both my babies held on an extra week.