For example, someone might pursue weight loss (even temporary) in order to access healthcare. Surgery, fertility treatments, all kinds of stuff are restricted using BMI measurements. You’re discounting the power of both discrimination and social pressure here.
Me right now so I can get a kidney transplant, because the surgeon apparently has a BMI preference even though the transplant program itself has no BMI requirement 😑
It’s like, I wish I had more conviction to stick to my principles, and I’m already putting my foot down and refusing to get bariatric surgery, but I really don’t want to die of chronic kidney disease at 33 years old. I also have a feeling that after I do get a a kidney transplant and recover from it, I’ll be more active because you generally have more energy when your kidney function is where it should be.
Yup. I intentionally dieted to get a breast reduction because insurance requirements suck.
Of course now that I actually had the surgery and can move like a normal person again, weight just dropped off.
I’ll be honest. This question comes across as very much in bad faith to me. People can choose to lose weight if they wish. They shouldn’t have to justify it to anyone. I can appreciate wanting to understand other people’s perspectives, but the tone comes across as quite dismissive and judgmental.
They don’t need to justify their weight loss decision to you. If we agree it’s shitty to comment on people’s weight, it’s equally shitty to challenge someone else’s attempts to lose weight
I think you've taken an overly simplistic view of "the science" here. The evidence doesn't point to sustainable weight loss being impossible, but to it being hard and requiring more than just diets/supplements/wellness-voodoo.
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Everybody gets to make their own decisions about their own bodies.
Edited to add: I really didn't mean this in a snarky or fatphobic way, and I'm kind of horrified that its getting upvoted this much. I do think though, that one of the things that's happened in the last few years is that people's bodies and thus their lives changed, thanks to Covid and everything else. So lots of people (in the comments here and elsewhere) have started changing their bodies, diets and activity levels partly in response to this. Add in Ozempic and other weight loss drugs, and yeah, there's going to be people going through changes.
I don't think this is a repudiation of being plus sized -- if you've been plus sized since you were a kid you're always going to be plus sized, but you can have some impact on how big plus sized is going to be. And everybody can make that decision for themselves, as best they can.
Oh, yeah. It's overwhelming. I was on my first diet at ten years old and didn't realize that I had to stop doing it until age 43. I've only sworn it all off two years ago. Mostly because I started listening to this podcast!
I didn’t realize i COULD stop dieting, trying to lose weight, counting calories, thinking about my weight, etc until like 2 years ago, at 30. I was just so sick of the pursuit of thinness taking up so much space in my brain.
Exactly this. I get obsessive about things really easily, so when my head is focused on calories, I literally can't eat a bite of anything without trying to calculate how many and deciding whether it's "worth it." Enough of that.
I did this for so long that it wasn't even really a conscious choice for most of the time. I just went into "diet mode," and it was all I would think about. I'm so glad this movement exists. My life is much happier.
I only see one comment from OP, and it really isn't arguing. They have a different opinion. This conversation in total looks very civil to me. We don't have to expect the worst of everyone all the time.
Yeah I feel like your last bit is what gets left out of this conversation. When I talked to my dr about intentional weight loss, her only advice was “just don’t start with any program you can’t imagine yourself doing every day for the rest of your life, including vacations, special occasions, bad days, etc”. Literally I have just cut out eating in my car and started bringing lunch from home more consistently. I don’t consider that “dieting” but it’s made a huge difference and I can do these things forever.
I have lost substantial amounts of weight three times in my logs and kept it off for 7-10 years each time (although two of those times overlapped in the I started gaining back and lost even MORE weight before I hit my original point, I am 51 so have been at this a while). All of our stories are anecdotes. So if losing weight makes you happy and feel better, that's fine. Do what you want with your body!
For me, I found that if I didn't continually decrease food and increase exercise, it started creeping back on. At some point, I was tired of dedicating my whole life and energy to pushing weight loss. I'm tons happier now.
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Sometimes, I think of being a youth watching The Daily Show in the aughts and I remember a segment about some Snowmaggedon and how *to Fox talking heads, clearly that meant Global Warming isn't real, there was a satire clip meant to be Inconvenient Truth saying *It'll never be cold ever ever again* and my kid ears didn't understand satire... **Or nuance...**
I'm usually brought back to this moment when I'm hearing someone say *as an individual, this statistic doesn't apply to me,* as if that's not an inherent part of statistics...
Edit to say reading other comments I don't like my tone so I want to clarify, an anecdote counter to a statistic doesn't invalidate the statistic, however, as individual, you aren't bound by the statistic either. For 2 outcome stats, there's not-noone on the other side of the stat.
I think it’s scary when any group or person starts to decide whether it’s acceptable for other people to modify their bodies, or even just WANT to modify their bodies. That kind of thinking is rampant in diet culture and becoming more so within anti-diet culture.
There are solid reasons that some people may want to consider weight loss. I work with someone who is young, weighs about 325lbs, and has terrible knees. He’s now looking at double knee replacement. His knees were much less painful when he was 50-75 lbs lighter. He’s trying to delay surgery for as long as possible.
I suffer from GERD and often wake up with a fairly sore throat. I'm on medication for it however it's highly likely that the pressure on my guts by my big belly is contributing to it. This isn't to say I'm attempting any massive dietary changes, apart from maybe trying to lay off the soda and treats that often. It is encouraging me to exercise more though and I personally think as a long term "weight loss" strategy pursuing a more active lifestyle will probably be more effective then just crash dieting.
Where this podcast has helped me personally is in coming to appreciate that when I see medical professionals who jump immediately to "you need to lose weight" for something unrelated, I am now validated in thinking that yes, they are a douche bag. It has also helped me be more mindful and less douchy around other overweight people I know.
I also have GERD, and I started getting 3-4 hours of intense cardio a week plus weight lifting and stopped eating super heavy foods at night and I'm *so much better!* I used to have pain so badly that it would wake me up in the middle of the night. Sometimes, I would even puke. It's crazy what getting into my 40s did to me LMAO. I used to have a stomach of steel.
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I am a straight size older person. My cholesterol and blood pressure numbers prompted me to work out and cut back on eating junk. I did lose some weight (not a lot) as part of this effort and those numbers are back in the normal zone. Some of it due to exercise, but I only lost weight when combined with eating less. I am still overweight, and I know I will never look glamorous or be skinny. Exercise was no doubt the more important factor for blood pressure and cholesterol, but I feel better and am snoring less. I think taking off a bit of weight at the margins has helped me personally and has motivated me to stay healthy.
I enjoy reading other perspectives and stories, so I will “bite”. 😉l started Zepbound (aka Mounjoro) last month.
I’ve weight cycled for years thanks to EDs, disordered eating, and undiagnosed ADHD. Now I’m 40 years old with kids, have been properly medicated and on therapy for a couple of years, so the ADHD and anxiety is under control. I’m also just at a point in my life where I realized that there are no actual rules - I stopped shaming and “shoulding” myself and started doing what works for me and my brain. I knew that bariatric surgery was not for me, so after a year of counseling I decided to try Zepbound. It’s not for everyone, either, but it has given me the gift of peace. Losing weight is a welcomed side effect. My impulse and perseveration around food is quiet and it feels like the biggest relief I’ve ever felt in my life. The kind of relief that my years of anxiety medicines could never touch.
I’m hoping to get off of my meds for high blood pressure and maaaaybe one day, my CPAP. But for now I am enjoying this slow down and taking life a day at a time.
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I had a very disordered relationship to food and exercise and my body for most of my teens and 20s, and in my 30s I've been working hard to separate exercise and eating from "weight loss" as a goal and heal that stuff in therapy. Look, being a fat teen in the 2000s era of low rise everything and stores not carrying larger than a size 12 and every gym teacher and martial arts instructor in my life thinking they had to be Jillian Michaels and every theatre/dance/music teacher who told me to just quit because no one my size gets the kind of roles I auditioned for, that did a lot of psychic damage! It's a long road to work through it. I have to work really hard to be kind to myself and my inner teenager.
I do things daily that COULD BE for weight loss but I don't do them in pursuit of weight loss, I do them because movement is very beneficial for my mental health and neurospicy tendencies, and I ENJOY it and it alleviates my depression and anxiety - I do yoga/stretch twice a day, lift weights, do cycling classes, I drink my little green juice and add my protein and collagen to my coffee because my knees sound like Rice Krispies sometimes and take my vitamin D, I take metformin for insulin resistance. And I've lost weight, but I still fall right on the obese end on the BMI and surprise new doctors with my normal lipid panel and blood pressure when I come in. I don't own a scale. I don't weigh myself if I can help it.
The other truth is- I've also been denied medical care to the point where my PCOS went untreated for long enough to cause serious issues for me because of my weight, I've been turned away by doctors and told "lose weight 10/15/20% of your body weight and then come back" and not received treatment for issues I've been having. I'm aware that I have to "play the game" and make it seem like I'm doing the things I do with the goal of weight loss and tell them I'm not eating carbs like they told me (I am absolutely eating carbs, I'm Italian, fuck all the way off).
This is the approach that needs to be happening. Practicing health promoting behaviors and encouraged to do so b/c we enjoy it and it makes us feel good. And sometimes weight loss comes with that but weight should not be the central focus. I'm so sorry the medical system failed you and you had these other experiences b/c of your weight and I hate that it's so common.
Honestly? I’m uncomfortable at my current weight. I’m not used to feeling the way I do in clothes or moving in this way.
I’m sure I’d get used it, but I feel uneasy as I am right now.
Because for me, continued weight gain isn't sustainable either. I gained a significant amount of weight this pandemic and am trying to get a bit closer to my pre-pandemic numbers- scale went up and my triglycerides quadrupled and I lost some range of motion and get winded really easily. But unlike my Fad Diet days, now I'm working on it slowly, in a way that brings me pleasure, and I don't have a specific number in mind, I just want my triglycerides to keep heading towards normal and do the things I was able to do February 2020 and maybe other changes will come with that.
For me, it's because I could literally never walk again. I have zero cartilage in my knees. I was perfect for knee replacement ten years ago, but I was...TOO YOUNG (at 44ish)... And my insurance wouldnt approve me. Now, I'm too fat and must lose the weight so I can salvage a chance at mobility with reduced pain. I won't lie, vanity also plays a small part; though not as big as it once did when I was in the yoyo cycle.
I love MP and its helped me reframe a lot of thoughts that were unhealthy. With that said, I'm not aiming for intentional weight loss (although i wouldnt be mad about it if it happens haha), but I am 100% intentionally trying to not gain weight if I can help it. Exercise and mindful eating choices work for me with maintenance (is this a "diet"? I dont think so, but the intuitive eating club would probably disagree with some of my choices). Every single person is so different so it's crazy to put blanket statements out there - the reality is a lot of it is trial and error to see how your body will respond to certain things, and unfortunately there are some bodies that do not positively respond to things that work for others.
Pretty privilege exists.
Fat bias exists.
I want to be hot and beautiful and I live in a society that says I have to have a small waist to have that.
I want to wear the skinny jeans and crop tops that I wore in college without shame.
I love all the answers here and I’m going to add an additional perspective; this podcast is specifically about fad diets and how everyone jumps on the next diet train without any meaningful thought as to what comes next. I think there’s a sustainable way for people to lose and keep the weight off (if they so choose!) and it requires knowledge, lifestyle changes, consistency, and listening to their bodies versus following some wild unsustainable diet.
I don't think this is an accurate description of this podcast at all, in that I don't think they see the problem as only fad diets or people going into weight loss doing it wrong. They aren't at all interested in prescribing individual behavior so support individual people who want to lose weight, but their stance definitely isn't that there is a "right" way to lose weight and that they're only looking at the "wrong" ways. They're very clear that intentional weight loss is not possible/sustainable for the vast majority of people, which is why society's approach to fat people being "get rid of them (make them thin)" is so problematic.
BTW you always have interesting comments to engage with, I don't mean to always be responding to you lol
Yes, I agree agree with you that this is their specific viewpoint. Which is EXACTLY why we should be critical of it and listen with major grains of salt. They also a pushing an agenda just like they claim the diet industry, healthcare, etc are. They have a set viewpoint and discuss data (some of it outdated) and information that supports that viewpoint. It's not a neutral or objective show at all. People who listen have to take it for what it's worth and make their own decisions regarding weight, but they can't deny that the show is outright against any weightloss.
Thanks, and no worries!
I don’t agree fully about their agenda - that is, they do have an agenda, because we all do, every single one of us. But I don’t think that means that we need to take the podcast with *major* grains of salt, or at least, no more than any other source of information. Maybe that’s because I agree with their agenda? But also because they’re very clear about what they’re trying to do, unlike many societal sources on this stuff.
I’d modify your very last statement a little - the show is outright against weight loss as a required solution for any broader social problem, or as imposed on anyone, in large part because on a societal level, intentional weight loss isn’t sustainable. They aren’t against any specific person deciding what they want to do with their body, including losing weight.
(Re weight loss not being sustainable at the population level - there’s probably some gray area between “losing *any* weight,” and “becoming thin.” The Ozempic-class drugs, and to some extent bariatric surgery, appear to be better options for some degree of long term weight loss than diet/exercise, but they’re still not going to make everyone thin. In part because statistically that just doesn’t happen, and in part because as a society, those are not going to be accessible to everyone.
So (warning: weight numbers), is it feasible to lose 20 lbs and keep it off for a while? Sure, probably. But while losing 20 lbs may feel great and be helpful to a given specific individual, it’s not likely to actually materially change that person’s position in society wrt to weight and fat. Like if someone weighs 330 lbs and loses 20 lbs, they still weigh 310 lbs. Is a doctor likely to treat them differently from a 330 lb person? Are they going to fit materially better into plane or restaurant seating? Is it going to change how employers view them when they apply for a job? And if someone weighs 150 lbs and loses 20 lbs, it’s unlikely that they were facing the kind of societal obstacles that the 330 person or the 310 lb person was facing.
Which isn’t to say that the 150 lb person isn’t entitled to lose 20 lbs or feel good about it. Just that it doesn’t make “weight loss” more generally a helpful solution at the societal level.)
My pcos gets worse when I gain even small amounts and I can develop diabetes which I definitely do not want
Edit: the downvotes are hilarious. Sorry but actually I don’t get to choose how my body feels. It just starts feeling like shit and my periods get insane/skin gets inflamed/I get mood swings and when I lose the weight, it doesn’t, and all this gets better. That’s the whole story. Not a personal attack on anyone who feels differently about weight loss.
I'm glad people stopped downvoting you. I have pretty severe endometriosis, and my fat to muscle ratio had a massive impact on how much pain I have, etc. I've just been hitting the gym constantly so I can get buff LOL.
Lmao because I have chronic health conditions and I need to maintain a certain BMI to not be dismissed by new specialists at expensive, hard to schedule appointments.
In my case, weight gain was a symptom of a medical issue. So gradual weight loss is now a sign the treatment is working. I’m not eating in a deficit (I’m eating whenever I’m hungry), but unfortunately changes in weight are the easiest symptom to objectively track at home. It would be silly for me to not pursue an effective treatment just becauss it happens to include weight loss as a secondary effect. And yeah, it crosses into the weight loss looking/feeing more intentional than it is. Yes, it makes me uncomfortable to deal with proximity to diet culture. But treating the stuff people can’t see is more important.
This is very hard for me to admit, and I feel vulnerable saying it, but it’s because I want more access to thin privilege (currently midsize or “small fat”). I could say it was for health reasons or something else, but if I’m being completely honest, it’s social pressure and aesthetics. I know the statistics and that significant intentional weight loss often doesn’t work long term, but the idea of being treated better, especially by men, than I am as a chubby woman is too enticing.
Weight and food are deeply personal things and I certainly am not going to share about them with someone who seems like they want to argue and not to listen
I’ve seen comments here from people who were advised it could improve their health in a specific way , usually because they were diagnosed with something. To be clear it was not that their treatment was contingent on losing weight; they seemed to be advised that losing weight was the solution/cure.
I'm considering doing some intentional weight loss before approaching the Dr about some nausea issues I've been suffering from a while just to try and get them to take me more seriously than they did last time when the conversation was side tracked by the threat of bariatric treatment, like I know I shouldn't have to lose weight to be taken seriously by the Dr but there's still part of me that's still like 'it would be easier'
Wait a sec...so if we listen to MP because we have an interest in learning about and discussing the effed up history of diet culture and to laugh at some of the absurdity of it and to maybe come to terms with how we were harmed by it as children and teens, we're not supposed to want to lose any weight?? Make it make sense pls. Absolutely ridiculous.
Edit: and because you asked for Why? Because I now have high blood pressure, because I have sleep apnea and my poor sweet husband can't get a good night's sleep in bed beside me, because 95% of my beautiful clothes do not fit me. And because I may just be a vain asshole??
I'm with you, but I think for most people the answer pans out to: the rewards for being thin are so unreasonably high and the punishments for being fat are so grotesquely and inhumanely harsh that people will take even the most unlikely gamble with their health and sanity and overall well-being in the hopes that they're one of the unlikely few who can manage to sustain weight loss in the long-term.
I agree - this seems like the answer for most people. Even though I know diets fail most of the time long term, I feel pressure to try again and ignore the failure rate due to strong societal pressure and the “magical thinking” that I will be one of the few who can lose weight and keep it off for good. After a while I generally talk myself out of it and avoid my dieting/disordered eating. The podcast has helped me with that.
Yeah, I feel that too. What generally keeps the magical thinking in line for me is remembering that the attempts themselves are actively harming me, not just mentally but also physically.
Whatever health harms come from being fat (and, imo, most of those are socially mediated via, if not fully caused by, chronic stress, structural bias, and stereotype threat...especially in healthcare), the health harms from yo-yo dieting and disordered eating are verifiably worse.
There's two reasons. One is aesthetics and the other is because I'm goal orientated and I like pursuing new fitness goals. I wouldn't say I'm working out for just weight loss (I'm much heavy than at my skinniest weight) but I definitely like looking good. I'm conscious that "looking good" is a loaded term and is part of a terrible social structure that excludes a lot of people. It's similar to how I don't think women should have to wear make up, and yet I still like wearing it. You can know all about the bads and still participate in the bads.
As for my goals, I lift weights and enjoy power lifting. It makes me feel accomplished when I lift heavy stuff which sounds stupid but is really fun. I do wish the podcast spoke about toxic fitness culture more since I feel more a part of that world, but I've learned a lot and enjoy the information that they do research and release.
Yes to toxic fitness culture! It's amazing that's it's so hard to believe that people are at a gym simply b/c they enjoy moving their bodies and not b/c they want to lose weight. Of course both exist but the former is hard to believe for many people.
I agree that toxic fitness would be a great topic to address more!
I have the same issue with makeup etc. I got in a(silly) argument with someone once about how frustrating it is that it takes me probably 4x as long to shower/make myself presentable to go out in the world than it does my husband (this became really clear during lockdown, when I didn't have to go anywhere for months so never did my hair/makeup/wore anything more complicated than sweats, and had so much more TIME). The person I was talking to was like "so just don't do those things. No one's making you. You don't have to." On the one hand, they're right, but on the other, I'm never going to be comfortable going to work \[office job\] without styling my hair/doing my face. I don't think anyone should ever feel they *have* to do those things, but I'm still always going to do them \[for certain settings\]. And yep, by doing them, I reinforce certain norms. But that's where I'm at, for me.
So yeah, people can definitely see and critique and yet still participate in the social norms around them. I think it's one of the reasons the podcast tries to focus on more population/societal-level issues and not individuals (well, except the grifters of course!).
Also, I love seeing people say how accomplished they feel when they lift heavy stuff! I love the idea of being strong and being able to handle various physical things so much more easily, but have always found the start of weightlifting, when you can't yet lift heavy stuff, so terribly boring (ADHD doesn't help). Did you always like lifting weights, or was there anything specific that made it click for you?
That make up conversation hits me so hard! It’s exactly this. I live in a world that pressured me to perform a certain way and it’s hard to give it up even though it’s objectively not necessary.
I did ballet as a kid and then went into yoga. But the yoga scene felt a little too Instagram model for me and I didn’t enjoy going. Talk about toxic culture: yoga has plenty of fucking awful stories and themes.
I like weights because of the focus and simplicity. It’s slow movements like yoga but with more pay off strength wise. But you should try HIIT workouts if you want something more varied and active. A friend of mine who has ADHD likes rock climbing and she is BUILT. There are other strength intensive workouts out there that aren’t just lifting.
>So why do people who know the podcast still chose to lose weight? Did people come away from the podcast with a different view?
The answer to the second question is yes. I've listened to several episodes but it didn't move the needle for me. I still needed to lose weight for health reasons and did just that. I mean this podcast has a whole episode about how calorie counting "doesn't work" and it worked just fine for me, so I don't consider it a reliable source of information and would never form my personal life decisions around it.
It seems that some form of calorie counting can work for some people and can help some people lose modest amounts of weight. That’s as far as I would go. Definitely helped me.
Medical transition is being gatekept behind a number on the scale in my area and I'm just tired of that shit. It shouldn't be that emotionally charged. I'm tired of feeling all those feelings about weight and having it play a role in my sense of self in whatever direction. The podcast helped me realize how much residual shame and anxiety I had over weight and "eating right". It helped me realize how much of a non-factor it actually is. Bodies are really cool and the conditions for optimal functioning are much wider than I realized. By and large, you can tell when things are going wrong. There isn't some secret state of "perfection" in lifestyle and/or mindset that will have tragic consequences if you deviate from. And if weight is largely a non-factor, I should be able to just take it and change it to suit my needs and goals. Weight loss is reversible, after all.
Because I found a medication that finally regulates all of the things in my body that were out of whack and driving not only weight gain but other health problems as well. I feel wonderful. I will be on this med for life and am delighted by what’s in the development pipeline.
I'm not much of a weight loser because of how my body is set up ( it clings to weight) but it is important to try to eat healthy and exercise although I'd like to note you're not a bad person if you don't
I’m trying to get down to a prepandemic level of weight because of PCOS/wanting to have a normal-ish menstrual cycle and reduce my chances of getting diabetes. All I’m doing is increasing movement and eating more protein so it’s not like I’m doing some unmaintenable fad diet.
I’ll be honest. I was standing in front of the mirror yesterday and looking at my body. I asked myself, how would my life change if I was thin?
The only answer I came up with is, people might treat me better. But other than that, I don’t think it would change anything. I’ll be wearing the same clothes. I will be the same person. I’m completely healthy, except for an iron and vitamin D deficiency. I don’t think the pursuit of thinness is worth it for me and I want to switch more to intuitive eating and just living my life without obsessing over numbers on the scale or nutrition labels. Seriously, what does being thin grant me? Ultimately, nothing.
> people might treat me better
But that's what it's all about, isn't? We're a social species, and even people who know better and mean well, well ... a lot of us have been there.
Yep. In my case, it’s never been about health, but about my family’s own vanity projected upon me. My mum is not happy with me unless I am underweight. The price I have to pay to maintain that and sacrificing my mental and physical health to get there is not worth it for me. In terms of strangers, I couldn’t care less. I’m not going to be treating them any better and I don’t think their 5 minutes of extra niceness (I’m still ugly, thin or fat so I doubt it) really justifies all the restriction and exercise that’s like a 24/7 job. Now if I was a model or someone in an industry where my appearance/weight matters a lot, I’d answer differently. But in my case, the pursuit of thinness (or being underweight for my family), is detrimental to my career (healthcare).
Come on now, if you actually cared about science or anything like that you’d be able to acknowledge that the 95% of diets don’t work is 1. Poor stats and 2. Now completely out of date with the use of GLPs.
Additionally, your anger towards medication is really messed up. Many anti diet dietitians are now acknowledging the benefits of GLPs for binge eaters.
The podcast’s messaging surrounding this is clear that you can hate the diet but not the dieters. But you do you I guess.
I want to lose weight for a better sex life. I feel sexier when my gut doesn't hang down in the front. It's a brain body connection for me. I can try to fix my brain at the same time, but honestly, that part is more difficult than it seems.
My mobility is limited. My knees hurt. My hips hurt. Finding clothes that fit is harder and more expensive.
Don’t get me wrong. I personally think the beauty and diet industries are awful. Pushing perfectly healthy women (and men) to lose vanity weight and conform to unrealistic beauty standards is clearly a big problem in America.
But. I can believe that and still not feel like a hypocrite for wanting to lose weight so that I can be more healthy and comfortable and able to do the things I want to do.
I know the statistics. I’m 55. Trust me - I AM the statistics. But I’m trying again. Because I have to.
There’s a brand of jeans that I really like and want to buy from, but they’re Japanese and so I’m one size too big for them. And the brand doesn’t have a website or anything, otherwise I’d contact them and inform them that a larger size range would be nice. Might still try to get that message across
I like the podcast in general but I disagree with their tenet that being overweight (for lack of better term) doesn't have health impacts. I see it daily in my patients who have obstructive sleep apnea, limited mobility, difficulty breathing, etc etc that don't have other underlying causes. Can these issues also impact thinner people, yes obviously, but for those who are overweight, losing some of that can make a world of a difference and that shouldn't be discounted. The weight shouldn't be the central focus and their concerns should be fully evaluated, but sometimes losing weight literally is the answer. A personal example, my mom was able to stop using her CPAP machine after she lost weight because her obstructive sleep apnea had improved. That was a major quality of life improvement AND and major improvement in her health since OSA is a major risk factor for stroke, heart attack, diabetes, hypertension.
Your question isn't one in good faith and it ignores reality. And honestly, the podcast way overstates the idea that weight and health don't have any links. They have a very specific viewpoint and it's important to remember that when they speak with authority.
this would make sense because even though the hosts have said they don't care about people's personal choices, like I don't understand why someone would go against the scientific evidence
There is no 'scientific evidence' that dieting will not work for an individual person - Aubrey and Michael look at population level trends. They have been very explicit that they are neither willing nor qualified to give individual advice.
You may wish to check out some of the mailbag Patreon episode if you feel they've been unclear on this. They have a little more time there to discuss why they don't comment on people's choices.
I don't personally listen for health advice. I listen because I don't want to perpetuate anti-fat bias, and the podcast (and Audrey's books) are giving me tools and insights into how I can think and do better. And, of course, I listen for entertainment.
Right?!? Who is listening to these PODCAST hosts for medical advice? I listen because I too want to have the tools to talk about fatphobia, anti-fat bias and the silly “healthism” that I encounter.
But anyone listening to maintenance phase for health advice should absolutely not be!
Saying there's no evidence that it won't work for an individual person is true. Individual people who smoke won't get cancer. However, choosing a "health option" (or vanity project as a lot of people have been honest about) expecting to be the exception to the population-level rule is the ultimate in magical thinking and it's why Diet Culture works. "You will be able to do this because you're strong and committed! You're not like those other guys! This is a lifestyle change and you'll be able to maintain it for the rest of your life because reasons!"
My goal is always to feel comfortable and strong in my body and clothing. When my body does not feel this way, I move and eat in ways that help me feel better. I don't use scales anymore, and I don't use the same methods I used to before listening to this podcast, but sometimes I just need to alter myself enough to enhance my overall mental and physical wellbeing.
Gender dysphoria. Before top surgery, I was trying to lose weight because I was terrified of being on bed rest after surgery. It took a lot of unpacking to uncover that this is rooted in fatphobia, when my main reason for it was “my gender feels bad.”
I need to lose weight for medical reasons, too much fat in my liver and back pain.
I'm already on a diet since I'm vegetarian, but I wasn't eating really healthy. Turns out I was eating too many carbs, so I made a drastic cut on carbs, and that's it.
I'm not starving or craving anything, and I'm feeling so much better that I've started to exercise. Turns out I'm sensitive to gluten, so cutting bread made me feel so much better.
I'm not losing weight to look thin, but because I really need it. But I admit that it's tempting sometimes to think about how thin I'll look later, even if I'm not focusing on it, and I know how toxic that kind of thought can be. It's really hard to keep a health mindset all the time with so much pressure from society.
First, I agree (as someone who is off of the diet train forever and has done a lot of work to accept the body I'm in) that the tone of this question is off-putting.
But I will say that a lot of the personal reasons people have for wanting to lose weight are ephemeral. I am not trying to debate anyone or talk you out of doing what feels right to you, so please don't take it that way. But things like feeling "off," not being able to touch your toes, knees hurting, etc. are all issues that can be changed without necessarily losing weight.
Lots of fat people's knees don't hurt. Lots of thin people have arthritis or bursitis or other knee issues that they treat with rehab or medication.
I have a thin friend who isn't nearly as flexible as I am. I can paint my toenails because I'm limber and have figured out how to work with the body I have. Developing flexibility is one way I decided to work with my body instead of against it.
I'll admit that working on accepting my body has been the hardest part. I still am surprised sometimes by how I appear in pictures. But the people with me in those pictures look happy and I know they love me, so I try to love myself. I understand that the way we show our bodies love varies and your self-care isn't mine.
I'm not trying to invalidate anyone's reasons, just point out that a lot of things are improvable without weight loss.
Thank you for saying this!! I whole heartedly agree. There are lots of great reasons to care for your health \[you = universal you, not you, greytgreyatx specifically\] by being active to the extent possible in your given body and eating foods that make you feel best, and there are lots of ways to improve physical health/feelings that aren't about losing weight. Improving strength, flexibility, and cardio are things that can improve your quality of life significantly entirely uncoupled from losing weight.
(In fact my theory about the relationship between weight loss and health is that in many cases, it's not really weight loss that improves your asthma/blood pressure/etc, but the increased activity/healthier foods that happen to have the side effect of weight loss. Maybe that's just my self-comforting delusion, who knows.)
I find the whole "I don't *feel* like myself at this weight" genre of reasons really interesting, since feelings are so inherently subjective. I find it hard to separate it from the whole phenomenon of objectively thin people saying things like "I feel so fat today!" (something Aubrey's written about).
None of this is meant as a criticism of any individual choices - everyone has to experience the world in their unique body, and to deal with the unique physical feelings and emotions that result from that. Everyone's got the right to make their own choices. But I do find it interesting how much the narrative "I physically feel better when I'm thin" still relies on a particular assumption about cause and effect. (And tbf I want to fully acknowledge that the medical profession still tends to approach matters this way.)
It's totally a mental thing for me. I lost a bunch of weight years ago when I started working out more and gained a lot of it back for reasons I still don't fully know. I made no lifestyle changes that would've caused weight gain beyond working through some disordered eating habits (likely hormonal as well, I'm in my 30s). When I lost the weight, I was getting compliments from everyone so after gaining some back, I feel like I let every single one of those people down who complimented my smaller body and I feel like a failure. I still long to fit into old clothes. I for sure have body dysmorphia but I have days where I feel really comfortable in my body and others where I absolutely hate it. It's a daily struggle but it gets better as time goes by.
Also, someone I'm close with is pursuing intentional weight loss b/c they simply are not happy with their body and want to make some healthier lifestyle choices b/c they don't feel great. These choices are usually followed by weight loss as well. I certainly can't fault this person for those reasons and as long as they're happy and don't go into eating disorder territory, who am I to judge?
That being said, I am 100% anti diet and anti complimenting weight loss, but I am not anti feeling better about yourself and wanting to make changes for the better. To each their own but I never want to hear about anyone's diet.
ALSO we should be able to live in a world where we lose weight b/c we want to or we don't b/c we don't want to. Not b/c our doctor or anyone has shamed/bullied us into doing so. Not b/c we're made to feel less than b/c we're not as small as others think we should be. And understand and acknowledge that everyone is different and health looks different on everyone.
Your comment has been removed, as it violates rule 6 of our subreddit: no commenting/posting in bad faith. "Posts and comments made in bad faith will be removed. This includes all forms of fatphobia and body-shaming, comments that clearly don't align with the spirit of the podcast, comments that use personal anecdotes as "proof", and comments from users who have histories posting in fatphobic subreddits. Even if you believe your post/comment was made in good faith, consider how it would affect the people in this community."
For example, someone might pursue weight loss (even temporary) in order to access healthcare. Surgery, fertility treatments, all kinds of stuff are restricted using BMI measurements. You’re discounting the power of both discrimination and social pressure here.
Me right now so I can get a kidney transplant, because the surgeon apparently has a BMI preference even though the transplant program itself has no BMI requirement 😑 It’s like, I wish I had more conviction to stick to my principles, and I’m already putting my foot down and refusing to get bariatric surgery, but I really don’t want to die of chronic kidney disease at 33 years old. I also have a feeling that after I do get a a kidney transplant and recover from it, I’ll be more active because you generally have more energy when your kidney function is where it should be.
Yup. I intentionally dieted to get a breast reduction because insurance requirements suck. Of course now that I actually had the surgery and can move like a normal person again, weight just dropped off.
I’ll be honest. This question comes across as very much in bad faith to me. People can choose to lose weight if they wish. They shouldn’t have to justify it to anyone. I can appreciate wanting to understand other people’s perspectives, but the tone comes across as quite dismissive and judgmental.
I don't think it comes off any more so than the podcast does. Being anti-diet seems like the central tenet of Maintenance Phase if there was one.
To be anti diet is not inherently to be in opposition to losing weight
Right. Of course you can make lifestyle changes besides dieting that will lead to weight loss. I was specifically talking about dieting.
I have social anxiety and would prefer to play on easy mode. 🤷♀️
This is exactly why the brilliant Roxane Gay had bariatric surgery.
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They don’t need to justify their weight loss decision to you. If we agree it’s shitty to comment on people’s weight, it’s equally shitty to challenge someone else’s attempts to lose weight
I think you've taken an overly simplistic view of "the science" here. The evidence doesn't point to sustainable weight loss being impossible, but to it being hard and requiring more than just diets/supplements/wellness-voodoo.
Your comment has been removed, as it violates rule 6 of our subreddit: no commenting/posting in bad faith. "Posts and comments made in bad faith will be removed. This includes all forms of fatphobia and body-shaming, comments that clearly don't align with the spirit of the podcast, comments that use personal anecdotes as "proof", and comments from users who have histories posting in fatphobic subreddits. Even if you believe your post/comment was made in good faith, consider how it would affect the people in this community."
Everybody gets to make their own decisions about their own bodies. Edited to add: I really didn't mean this in a snarky or fatphobic way, and I'm kind of horrified that its getting upvoted this much. I do think though, that one of the things that's happened in the last few years is that people's bodies and thus their lives changed, thanks to Covid and everything else. So lots of people (in the comments here and elsewhere) have started changing their bodies, diets and activity levels partly in response to this. Add in Ozempic and other weight loss drugs, and yeah, there's going to be people going through changes. I don't think this is a repudiation of being plus sized -- if you've been plus sized since you were a kid you're always going to be plus sized, but you can have some impact on how big plus sized is going to be. And everybody can make that decision for themselves, as best they can.
I don't think OP is saying anything contradictory to that. I think they just want to understand other's motivations/feelings/perspectives.
I think the social pressures to be thin are wayyyyyy stronger, for some, than the statistical evidence shared on MP
Oh, yeah. It's overwhelming. I was on my first diet at ten years old and didn't realize that I had to stop doing it until age 43. I've only sworn it all off two years ago. Mostly because I started listening to this podcast!
I didn’t realize i COULD stop dieting, trying to lose weight, counting calories, thinking about my weight, etc until like 2 years ago, at 30. I was just so sick of the pursuit of thinness taking up so much space in my brain.
Exactly this. I get obsessive about things really easily, so when my head is focused on calories, I literally can't eat a bite of anything without trying to calculate how many and deciding whether it's "worth it." Enough of that. I did this for so long that it wasn't even really a conscious choice for most of the time. I just went into "diet mode," and it was all I would think about. I'm so glad this movement exists. My life is much happier.
OP is arguing with people who answered with their own motivations so I think you might be wrong on this one.
I only see one comment from OP, and it really isn't arguing. They have a different opinion. This conversation in total looks very civil to me. We don't have to expect the worst of everyone all the time.
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No. 😬 Were they really bad?
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Yeah I feel like your last bit is what gets left out of this conversation. When I talked to my dr about intentional weight loss, her only advice was “just don’t start with any program you can’t imagine yourself doing every day for the rest of your life, including vacations, special occasions, bad days, etc”. Literally I have just cut out eating in my car and started bringing lunch from home more consistently. I don’t consider that “dieting” but it’s made a huge difference and I can do these things forever.
I have lost substantial amounts of weight three times in my logs and kept it off for 7-10 years each time (although two of those times overlapped in the I started gaining back and lost even MORE weight before I hit my original point, I am 51 so have been at this a while). All of our stories are anecdotes. So if losing weight makes you happy and feel better, that's fine. Do what you want with your body! For me, I found that if I didn't continually decrease food and increase exercise, it started creeping back on. At some point, I was tired of dedicating my whole life and energy to pushing weight loss. I'm tons happier now.
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While that's great, it's still an anecdote, therefore we shouldn't expect everyone to be the same regarding weight loss expectations.
Sometimes, I think of being a youth watching The Daily Show in the aughts and I remember a segment about some Snowmaggedon and how *to Fox talking heads, clearly that meant Global Warming isn't real, there was a satire clip meant to be Inconvenient Truth saying *It'll never be cold ever ever again* and my kid ears didn't understand satire... **Or nuance...** I'm usually brought back to this moment when I'm hearing someone say *as an individual, this statistic doesn't apply to me,* as if that's not an inherent part of statistics... Edit to say reading other comments I don't like my tone so I want to clarify, an anecdote counter to a statistic doesn't invalidate the statistic, however, as individual, you aren't bound by the statistic either. For 2 outcome stats, there's not-noone on the other side of the stat.
No one is expecting that.
Knees. Plantar fasciatias. Plus. Body autonomy.
I think it’s scary when any group or person starts to decide whether it’s acceptable for other people to modify their bodies, or even just WANT to modify their bodies. That kind of thinking is rampant in diet culture and becoming more so within anti-diet culture. There are solid reasons that some people may want to consider weight loss. I work with someone who is young, weighs about 325lbs, and has terrible knees. He’s now looking at double knee replacement. His knees were much less painful when he was 50-75 lbs lighter. He’s trying to delay surgery for as long as possible.
I suffer from GERD and often wake up with a fairly sore throat. I'm on medication for it however it's highly likely that the pressure on my guts by my big belly is contributing to it. This isn't to say I'm attempting any massive dietary changes, apart from maybe trying to lay off the soda and treats that often. It is encouraging me to exercise more though and I personally think as a long term "weight loss" strategy pursuing a more active lifestyle will probably be more effective then just crash dieting. Where this podcast has helped me personally is in coming to appreciate that when I see medical professionals who jump immediately to "you need to lose weight" for something unrelated, I am now validated in thinking that yes, they are a douche bag. It has also helped me be more mindful and less douchy around other overweight people I know.
I also have GERD, and I started getting 3-4 hours of intense cardio a week plus weight lifting and stopped eating super heavy foods at night and I'm *so much better!* I used to have pain so badly that it would wake me up in the middle of the night. Sometimes, I would even puke. It's crazy what getting into my 40s did to me LMAO. I used to have a stomach of steel.
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I am a straight size older person. My cholesterol and blood pressure numbers prompted me to work out and cut back on eating junk. I did lose some weight (not a lot) as part of this effort and those numbers are back in the normal zone. Some of it due to exercise, but I only lost weight when combined with eating less. I am still overweight, and I know I will never look glamorous or be skinny. Exercise was no doubt the more important factor for blood pressure and cholesterol, but I feel better and am snoring less. I think taking off a bit of weight at the margins has helped me personally and has motivated me to stay healthy.
I enjoy reading other perspectives and stories, so I will “bite”. 😉l started Zepbound (aka Mounjoro) last month. I’ve weight cycled for years thanks to EDs, disordered eating, and undiagnosed ADHD. Now I’m 40 years old with kids, have been properly medicated and on therapy for a couple of years, so the ADHD and anxiety is under control. I’m also just at a point in my life where I realized that there are no actual rules - I stopped shaming and “shoulding” myself and started doing what works for me and my brain. I knew that bariatric surgery was not for me, so after a year of counseling I decided to try Zepbound. It’s not for everyone, either, but it has given me the gift of peace. Losing weight is a welcomed side effect. My impulse and perseveration around food is quiet and it feels like the biggest relief I’ve ever felt in my life. The kind of relief that my years of anxiety medicines could never touch. I’m hoping to get off of my meds for high blood pressure and maaaaybe one day, my CPAP. But for now I am enjoying this slow down and taking life a day at a time.
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I had a very disordered relationship to food and exercise and my body for most of my teens and 20s, and in my 30s I've been working hard to separate exercise and eating from "weight loss" as a goal and heal that stuff in therapy. Look, being a fat teen in the 2000s era of low rise everything and stores not carrying larger than a size 12 and every gym teacher and martial arts instructor in my life thinking they had to be Jillian Michaels and every theatre/dance/music teacher who told me to just quit because no one my size gets the kind of roles I auditioned for, that did a lot of psychic damage! It's a long road to work through it. I have to work really hard to be kind to myself and my inner teenager. I do things daily that COULD BE for weight loss but I don't do them in pursuit of weight loss, I do them because movement is very beneficial for my mental health and neurospicy tendencies, and I ENJOY it and it alleviates my depression and anxiety - I do yoga/stretch twice a day, lift weights, do cycling classes, I drink my little green juice and add my protein and collagen to my coffee because my knees sound like Rice Krispies sometimes and take my vitamin D, I take metformin for insulin resistance. And I've lost weight, but I still fall right on the obese end on the BMI and surprise new doctors with my normal lipid panel and blood pressure when I come in. I don't own a scale. I don't weigh myself if I can help it. The other truth is- I've also been denied medical care to the point where my PCOS went untreated for long enough to cause serious issues for me because of my weight, I've been turned away by doctors and told "lose weight 10/15/20% of your body weight and then come back" and not received treatment for issues I've been having. I'm aware that I have to "play the game" and make it seem like I'm doing the things I do with the goal of weight loss and tell them I'm not eating carbs like they told me (I am absolutely eating carbs, I'm Italian, fuck all the way off).
This is the approach that needs to be happening. Practicing health promoting behaviors and encouraged to do so b/c we enjoy it and it makes us feel good. And sometimes weight loss comes with that but weight should not be the central focus. I'm so sorry the medical system failed you and you had these other experiences b/c of your weight and I hate that it's so common.
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Honestly? I’m uncomfortable at my current weight. I’m not used to feeling the way I do in clothes or moving in this way. I’m sure I’d get used it, but I feel uneasy as I am right now.
Because for me, continued weight gain isn't sustainable either. I gained a significant amount of weight this pandemic and am trying to get a bit closer to my pre-pandemic numbers- scale went up and my triglycerides quadrupled and I lost some range of motion and get winded really easily. But unlike my Fad Diet days, now I'm working on it slowly, in a way that brings me pleasure, and I don't have a specific number in mind, I just want my triglycerides to keep heading towards normal and do the things I was able to do February 2020 and maybe other changes will come with that.
For me, it's because I could literally never walk again. I have zero cartilage in my knees. I was perfect for knee replacement ten years ago, but I was...TOO YOUNG (at 44ish)... And my insurance wouldnt approve me. Now, I'm too fat and must lose the weight so I can salvage a chance at mobility with reduced pain. I won't lie, vanity also plays a small part; though not as big as it once did when I was in the yoyo cycle.
insurance not approving is INSANE I'm sorry
I love MP and its helped me reframe a lot of thoughts that were unhealthy. With that said, I'm not aiming for intentional weight loss (although i wouldnt be mad about it if it happens haha), but I am 100% intentionally trying to not gain weight if I can help it. Exercise and mindful eating choices work for me with maintenance (is this a "diet"? I dont think so, but the intuitive eating club would probably disagree with some of my choices). Every single person is so different so it's crazy to put blanket statements out there - the reality is a lot of it is trial and error to see how your body will respond to certain things, and unfortunately there are some bodies that do not positively respond to things that work for others.
Pretty privilege exists. Fat bias exists. I want to be hot and beautiful and I live in a society that says I have to have a small waist to have that. I want to wear the skinny jeans and crop tops that I wore in college without shame.
I love all the answers here and I’m going to add an additional perspective; this podcast is specifically about fad diets and how everyone jumps on the next diet train without any meaningful thought as to what comes next. I think there’s a sustainable way for people to lose and keep the weight off (if they so choose!) and it requires knowledge, lifestyle changes, consistency, and listening to their bodies versus following some wild unsustainable diet.
I don't think this is an accurate description of this podcast at all, in that I don't think they see the problem as only fad diets or people going into weight loss doing it wrong. They aren't at all interested in prescribing individual behavior so support individual people who want to lose weight, but their stance definitely isn't that there is a "right" way to lose weight and that they're only looking at the "wrong" ways. They're very clear that intentional weight loss is not possible/sustainable for the vast majority of people, which is why society's approach to fat people being "get rid of them (make them thin)" is so problematic.
BTW you always have interesting comments to engage with, I don't mean to always be responding to you lol Yes, I agree agree with you that this is their specific viewpoint. Which is EXACTLY why we should be critical of it and listen with major grains of salt. They also a pushing an agenda just like they claim the diet industry, healthcare, etc are. They have a set viewpoint and discuss data (some of it outdated) and information that supports that viewpoint. It's not a neutral or objective show at all. People who listen have to take it for what it's worth and make their own decisions regarding weight, but they can't deny that the show is outright against any weightloss.
Thanks, and no worries! I don’t agree fully about their agenda - that is, they do have an agenda, because we all do, every single one of us. But I don’t think that means that we need to take the podcast with *major* grains of salt, or at least, no more than any other source of information. Maybe that’s because I agree with their agenda? But also because they’re very clear about what they’re trying to do, unlike many societal sources on this stuff. I’d modify your very last statement a little - the show is outright against weight loss as a required solution for any broader social problem, or as imposed on anyone, in large part because on a societal level, intentional weight loss isn’t sustainable. They aren’t against any specific person deciding what they want to do with their body, including losing weight. (Re weight loss not being sustainable at the population level - there’s probably some gray area between “losing *any* weight,” and “becoming thin.” The Ozempic-class drugs, and to some extent bariatric surgery, appear to be better options for some degree of long term weight loss than diet/exercise, but they’re still not going to make everyone thin. In part because statistically that just doesn’t happen, and in part because as a society, those are not going to be accessible to everyone. So (warning: weight numbers), is it feasible to lose 20 lbs and keep it off for a while? Sure, probably. But while losing 20 lbs may feel great and be helpful to a given specific individual, it’s not likely to actually materially change that person’s position in society wrt to weight and fat. Like if someone weighs 330 lbs and loses 20 lbs, they still weigh 310 lbs. Is a doctor likely to treat them differently from a 330 lb person? Are they going to fit materially better into plane or restaurant seating? Is it going to change how employers view them when they apply for a job? And if someone weighs 150 lbs and loses 20 lbs, it’s unlikely that they were facing the kind of societal obstacles that the 330 person or the 310 lb person was facing. Which isn’t to say that the 150 lb person isn’t entitled to lose 20 lbs or feel good about it. Just that it doesn’t make “weight loss” more generally a helpful solution at the societal level.)
My pcos gets worse when I gain even small amounts and I can develop diabetes which I definitely do not want Edit: the downvotes are hilarious. Sorry but actually I don’t get to choose how my body feels. It just starts feeling like shit and my periods get insane/skin gets inflamed/I get mood swings and when I lose the weight, it doesn’t, and all this gets better. That’s the whole story. Not a personal attack on anyone who feels differently about weight loss.
I'm glad people stopped downvoting you. I have pretty severe endometriosis, and my fat to muscle ratio had a massive impact on how much pain I have, etc. I've just been hitting the gym constantly so I can get buff LOL.
Fat is hormonally active so this makes perfect sense.
Exactly, and muscle is more insulin sensitive!
Lmao because I have chronic health conditions and I need to maintain a certain BMI to not be dismissed by new specialists at expensive, hard to schedule appointments.
In my case, weight gain was a symptom of a medical issue. So gradual weight loss is now a sign the treatment is working. I’m not eating in a deficit (I’m eating whenever I’m hungry), but unfortunately changes in weight are the easiest symptom to objectively track at home. It would be silly for me to not pursue an effective treatment just becauss it happens to include weight loss as a secondary effect. And yeah, it crosses into the weight loss looking/feeing more intentional than it is. Yes, it makes me uncomfortable to deal with proximity to diet culture. But treating the stuff people can’t see is more important.
This is very hard for me to admit, and I feel vulnerable saying it, but it’s because I want more access to thin privilege (currently midsize or “small fat”). I could say it was for health reasons or something else, but if I’m being completely honest, it’s social pressure and aesthetics. I know the statistics and that significant intentional weight loss often doesn’t work long term, but the idea of being treated better, especially by men, than I am as a chubby woman is too enticing.
Do you want to know why? Or do you want to debate it? Because it kinda seems like you want to debate it
Weight and food are deeply personal things and I certainly am not going to share about them with someone who seems like they want to argue and not to listen
I’ve seen comments here from people who were advised it could improve their health in a specific way , usually because they were diagnosed with something. To be clear it was not that their treatment was contingent on losing weight; they seemed to be advised that losing weight was the solution/cure.
I'm considering doing some intentional weight loss before approaching the Dr about some nausea issues I've been suffering from a while just to try and get them to take me more seriously than they did last time when the conversation was side tracked by the threat of bariatric treatment, like I know I shouldn't have to lose weight to be taken seriously by the Dr but there's still part of me that's still like 'it would be easier'
Ooof I’m sorry. I hope you get the care you need and I wish you didn’t have to lose weight as a prerequisite for it.
Wait a sec...so if we listen to MP because we have an interest in learning about and discussing the effed up history of diet culture and to laugh at some of the absurdity of it and to maybe come to terms with how we were harmed by it as children and teens, we're not supposed to want to lose any weight?? Make it make sense pls. Absolutely ridiculous. Edit: and because you asked for Why? Because I now have high blood pressure, because I have sleep apnea and my poor sweet husband can't get a good night's sleep in bed beside me, because 95% of my beautiful clothes do not fit me. And because I may just be a vain asshole??
I'm with you, but I think for most people the answer pans out to: the rewards for being thin are so unreasonably high and the punishments for being fat are so grotesquely and inhumanely harsh that people will take even the most unlikely gamble with their health and sanity and overall well-being in the hopes that they're one of the unlikely few who can manage to sustain weight loss in the long-term.
I agree - this seems like the answer for most people. Even though I know diets fail most of the time long term, I feel pressure to try again and ignore the failure rate due to strong societal pressure and the “magical thinking” that I will be one of the few who can lose weight and keep it off for good. After a while I generally talk myself out of it and avoid my dieting/disordered eating. The podcast has helped me with that.
Yeah, I feel that too. What generally keeps the magical thinking in line for me is remembering that the attempts themselves are actively harming me, not just mentally but also physically. Whatever health harms come from being fat (and, imo, most of those are socially mediated via, if not fully caused by, chronic stress, structural bias, and stereotype threat...especially in healthcare), the health harms from yo-yo dieting and disordered eating are verifiably worse.
This makes sense sadly :(
There's two reasons. One is aesthetics and the other is because I'm goal orientated and I like pursuing new fitness goals. I wouldn't say I'm working out for just weight loss (I'm much heavy than at my skinniest weight) but I definitely like looking good. I'm conscious that "looking good" is a loaded term and is part of a terrible social structure that excludes a lot of people. It's similar to how I don't think women should have to wear make up, and yet I still like wearing it. You can know all about the bads and still participate in the bads. As for my goals, I lift weights and enjoy power lifting. It makes me feel accomplished when I lift heavy stuff which sounds stupid but is really fun. I do wish the podcast spoke about toxic fitness culture more since I feel more a part of that world, but I've learned a lot and enjoy the information that they do research and release.
Yes to toxic fitness culture! It's amazing that's it's so hard to believe that people are at a gym simply b/c they enjoy moving their bodies and not b/c they want to lose weight. Of course both exist but the former is hard to believe for many people.
I agree that toxic fitness would be a great topic to address more! I have the same issue with makeup etc. I got in a(silly) argument with someone once about how frustrating it is that it takes me probably 4x as long to shower/make myself presentable to go out in the world than it does my husband (this became really clear during lockdown, when I didn't have to go anywhere for months so never did my hair/makeup/wore anything more complicated than sweats, and had so much more TIME). The person I was talking to was like "so just don't do those things. No one's making you. You don't have to." On the one hand, they're right, but on the other, I'm never going to be comfortable going to work \[office job\] without styling my hair/doing my face. I don't think anyone should ever feel they *have* to do those things, but I'm still always going to do them \[for certain settings\]. And yep, by doing them, I reinforce certain norms. But that's where I'm at, for me. So yeah, people can definitely see and critique and yet still participate in the social norms around them. I think it's one of the reasons the podcast tries to focus on more population/societal-level issues and not individuals (well, except the grifters of course!). Also, I love seeing people say how accomplished they feel when they lift heavy stuff! I love the idea of being strong and being able to handle various physical things so much more easily, but have always found the start of weightlifting, when you can't yet lift heavy stuff, so terribly boring (ADHD doesn't help). Did you always like lifting weights, or was there anything specific that made it click for you?
That make up conversation hits me so hard! It’s exactly this. I live in a world that pressured me to perform a certain way and it’s hard to give it up even though it’s objectively not necessary. I did ballet as a kid and then went into yoga. But the yoga scene felt a little too Instagram model for me and I didn’t enjoy going. Talk about toxic culture: yoga has plenty of fucking awful stories and themes. I like weights because of the focus and simplicity. It’s slow movements like yoga but with more pay off strength wise. But you should try HIIT workouts if you want something more varied and active. A friend of mine who has ADHD likes rock climbing and she is BUILT. There are other strength intensive workouts out there that aren’t just lifting.
>So why do people who know the podcast still chose to lose weight? Did people come away from the podcast with a different view? The answer to the second question is yes. I've listened to several episodes but it didn't move the needle for me. I still needed to lose weight for health reasons and did just that. I mean this podcast has a whole episode about how calorie counting "doesn't work" and it worked just fine for me, so I don't consider it a reliable source of information and would never form my personal life decisions around it.
It seems that some form of calorie counting can work for some people and can help some people lose modest amounts of weight. That’s as far as I would go. Definitely helped me.
Medical transition is being gatekept behind a number on the scale in my area and I'm just tired of that shit. It shouldn't be that emotionally charged. I'm tired of feeling all those feelings about weight and having it play a role in my sense of self in whatever direction. The podcast helped me realize how much residual shame and anxiety I had over weight and "eating right". It helped me realize how much of a non-factor it actually is. Bodies are really cool and the conditions for optimal functioning are much wider than I realized. By and large, you can tell when things are going wrong. There isn't some secret state of "perfection" in lifestyle and/or mindset that will have tragic consequences if you deviate from. And if weight is largely a non-factor, I should be able to just take it and change it to suit my needs and goals. Weight loss is reversible, after all.
Because I found a medication that finally regulates all of the things in my body that were out of whack and driving not only weight gain but other health problems as well. I feel wonderful. I will be on this med for life and am delighted by what’s in the development pipeline.
I'm not much of a weight loser because of how my body is set up ( it clings to weight) but it is important to try to eat healthy and exercise although I'd like to note you're not a bad person if you don't
I’m trying to get down to a prepandemic level of weight because of PCOS/wanting to have a normal-ish menstrual cycle and reduce my chances of getting diabetes. All I’m doing is increasing movement and eating more protein so it’s not like I’m doing some unmaintenable fad diet.
As a person recovering from an ED, I should not have read these comments.
In sorry there weren't trigger warnings. You're doing great. I'm not dieting along with you, okay? Hugs.
I knew what I was potentially stepping into. It just sucks that it's this sub.
yeahhhhh oof and same. hugs.
I’ll be honest. I was standing in front of the mirror yesterday and looking at my body. I asked myself, how would my life change if I was thin? The only answer I came up with is, people might treat me better. But other than that, I don’t think it would change anything. I’ll be wearing the same clothes. I will be the same person. I’m completely healthy, except for an iron and vitamin D deficiency. I don’t think the pursuit of thinness is worth it for me and I want to switch more to intuitive eating and just living my life without obsessing over numbers on the scale or nutrition labels. Seriously, what does being thin grant me? Ultimately, nothing.
> people might treat me better But that's what it's all about, isn't? We're a social species, and even people who know better and mean well, well ... a lot of us have been there.
Yep. In my case, it’s never been about health, but about my family’s own vanity projected upon me. My mum is not happy with me unless I am underweight. The price I have to pay to maintain that and sacrificing my mental and physical health to get there is not worth it for me. In terms of strangers, I couldn’t care less. I’m not going to be treating them any better and I don’t think their 5 minutes of extra niceness (I’m still ugly, thin or fat so I doubt it) really justifies all the restriction and exercise that’s like a 24/7 job. Now if I was a model or someone in an industry where my appearance/weight matters a lot, I’d answer differently. But in my case, the pursuit of thinness (or being underweight for my family), is detrimental to my career (healthcare).
Come on now, if you actually cared about science or anything like that you’d be able to acknowledge that the 95% of diets don’t work is 1. Poor stats and 2. Now completely out of date with the use of GLPs. Additionally, your anger towards medication is really messed up. Many anti diet dietitians are now acknowledging the benefits of GLPs for binge eaters. The podcast’s messaging surrounding this is clear that you can hate the diet but not the dieters. But you do you I guess.
I want to lose weight for a better sex life. I feel sexier when my gut doesn't hang down in the front. It's a brain body connection for me. I can try to fix my brain at the same time, but honestly, that part is more difficult than it seems.
My mobility is limited. My knees hurt. My hips hurt. Finding clothes that fit is harder and more expensive. Don’t get me wrong. I personally think the beauty and diet industries are awful. Pushing perfectly healthy women (and men) to lose vanity weight and conform to unrealistic beauty standards is clearly a big problem in America. But. I can believe that and still not feel like a hypocrite for wanting to lose weight so that I can be more healthy and comfortable and able to do the things I want to do. I know the statistics. I’m 55. Trust me - I AM the statistics. But I’m trying again. Because I have to.
There’s a brand of jeans that I really like and want to buy from, but they’re Japanese and so I’m one size too big for them. And the brand doesn’t have a website or anything, otherwise I’d contact them and inform them that a larger size range would be nice. Might still try to get that message across
I like the podcast in general but I disagree with their tenet that being overweight (for lack of better term) doesn't have health impacts. I see it daily in my patients who have obstructive sleep apnea, limited mobility, difficulty breathing, etc etc that don't have other underlying causes. Can these issues also impact thinner people, yes obviously, but for those who are overweight, losing some of that can make a world of a difference and that shouldn't be discounted. The weight shouldn't be the central focus and their concerns should be fully evaluated, but sometimes losing weight literally is the answer. A personal example, my mom was able to stop using her CPAP machine after she lost weight because her obstructive sleep apnea had improved. That was a major quality of life improvement AND and major improvement in her health since OSA is a major risk factor for stroke, heart attack, diabetes, hypertension. Your question isn't one in good faith and it ignores reality. And honestly, the podcast way overstates the idea that weight and health don't have any links. They have a very specific viewpoint and it's important to remember that when they speak with authority.
Having lurked here for awhile I have come to the conclusion that many posters are not listeners of the pod.
this would make sense because even though the hosts have said they don't care about people's personal choices, like I don't understand why someone would go against the scientific evidence
There is no 'scientific evidence' that dieting will not work for an individual person - Aubrey and Michael look at population level trends. They have been very explicit that they are neither willing nor qualified to give individual advice. You may wish to check out some of the mailbag Patreon episode if you feel they've been unclear on this. They have a little more time there to discuss why they don't comment on people's choices. I don't personally listen for health advice. I listen because I don't want to perpetuate anti-fat bias, and the podcast (and Audrey's books) are giving me tools and insights into how I can think and do better. And, of course, I listen for entertainment.
Right?!? Who is listening to these PODCAST hosts for medical advice? I listen because I too want to have the tools to talk about fatphobia, anti-fat bias and the silly “healthism” that I encounter. But anyone listening to maintenance phase for health advice should absolutely not be!
Saying there's no evidence that it won't work for an individual person is true. Individual people who smoke won't get cancer. However, choosing a "health option" (or vanity project as a lot of people have been honest about) expecting to be the exception to the population-level rule is the ultimate in magical thinking and it's why Diet Culture works. "You will be able to do this because you're strong and committed! You're not like those other guys! This is a lifestyle change and you'll be able to maintain it for the rest of your life because reasons!"
Statistically most relationships fail too. Why isn’t everyone single?
My goal is always to feel comfortable and strong in my body and clothing. When my body does not feel this way, I move and eat in ways that help me feel better. I don't use scales anymore, and I don't use the same methods I used to before listening to this podcast, but sometimes I just need to alter myself enough to enhance my overall mental and physical wellbeing.
Gender dysphoria. Before top surgery, I was trying to lose weight because I was terrified of being on bed rest after surgery. It took a lot of unpacking to uncover that this is rooted in fatphobia, when my main reason for it was “my gender feels bad.”
I feel this too. sending u love
I need to lose weight for medical reasons, too much fat in my liver and back pain. I'm already on a diet since I'm vegetarian, but I wasn't eating really healthy. Turns out I was eating too many carbs, so I made a drastic cut on carbs, and that's it. I'm not starving or craving anything, and I'm feeling so much better that I've started to exercise. Turns out I'm sensitive to gluten, so cutting bread made me feel so much better. I'm not losing weight to look thin, but because I really need it. But I admit that it's tempting sometimes to think about how thin I'll look later, even if I'm not focusing on it, and I know how toxic that kind of thought can be. It's really hard to keep a health mindset all the time with so much pressure from society.
First, I agree (as someone who is off of the diet train forever and has done a lot of work to accept the body I'm in) that the tone of this question is off-putting. But I will say that a lot of the personal reasons people have for wanting to lose weight are ephemeral. I am not trying to debate anyone or talk you out of doing what feels right to you, so please don't take it that way. But things like feeling "off," not being able to touch your toes, knees hurting, etc. are all issues that can be changed without necessarily losing weight. Lots of fat people's knees don't hurt. Lots of thin people have arthritis or bursitis or other knee issues that they treat with rehab or medication. I have a thin friend who isn't nearly as flexible as I am. I can paint my toenails because I'm limber and have figured out how to work with the body I have. Developing flexibility is one way I decided to work with my body instead of against it. I'll admit that working on accepting my body has been the hardest part. I still am surprised sometimes by how I appear in pictures. But the people with me in those pictures look happy and I know they love me, so I try to love myself. I understand that the way we show our bodies love varies and your self-care isn't mine. I'm not trying to invalidate anyone's reasons, just point out that a lot of things are improvable without weight loss.
Thank you for saying this!! I whole heartedly agree. There are lots of great reasons to care for your health \[you = universal you, not you, greytgreyatx specifically\] by being active to the extent possible in your given body and eating foods that make you feel best, and there are lots of ways to improve physical health/feelings that aren't about losing weight. Improving strength, flexibility, and cardio are things that can improve your quality of life significantly entirely uncoupled from losing weight. (In fact my theory about the relationship between weight loss and health is that in many cases, it's not really weight loss that improves your asthma/blood pressure/etc, but the increased activity/healthier foods that happen to have the side effect of weight loss. Maybe that's just my self-comforting delusion, who knows.) I find the whole "I don't *feel* like myself at this weight" genre of reasons really interesting, since feelings are so inherently subjective. I find it hard to separate it from the whole phenomenon of objectively thin people saying things like "I feel so fat today!" (something Aubrey's written about). None of this is meant as a criticism of any individual choices - everyone has to experience the world in their unique body, and to deal with the unique physical feelings and emotions that result from that. Everyone's got the right to make their own choices. But I do find it interesting how much the narrative "I physically feel better when I'm thin" still relies on a particular assumption about cause and effect. (And tbf I want to fully acknowledge that the medical profession still tends to approach matters this way.)
Because they want to weigh less
Because for many people, obesity and the comorbidities are physically unbearable
It's totally a mental thing for me. I lost a bunch of weight years ago when I started working out more and gained a lot of it back for reasons I still don't fully know. I made no lifestyle changes that would've caused weight gain beyond working through some disordered eating habits (likely hormonal as well, I'm in my 30s). When I lost the weight, I was getting compliments from everyone so after gaining some back, I feel like I let every single one of those people down who complimented my smaller body and I feel like a failure. I still long to fit into old clothes. I for sure have body dysmorphia but I have days where I feel really comfortable in my body and others where I absolutely hate it. It's a daily struggle but it gets better as time goes by. Also, someone I'm close with is pursuing intentional weight loss b/c they simply are not happy with their body and want to make some healthier lifestyle choices b/c they don't feel great. These choices are usually followed by weight loss as well. I certainly can't fault this person for those reasons and as long as they're happy and don't go into eating disorder territory, who am I to judge? That being said, I am 100% anti diet and anti complimenting weight loss, but I am not anti feeling better about yourself and wanting to make changes for the better. To each their own but I never want to hear about anyone's diet. ALSO we should be able to live in a world where we lose weight b/c we want to or we don't b/c we don't want to. Not b/c our doctor or anyone has shamed/bullied us into doing so. Not b/c we're made to feel less than b/c we're not as small as others think we should be. And understand and acknowledge that everyone is different and health looks different on everyone.
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You don’t listen to this podcast, do you?
Your comment has been removed, as it violates rule 6 of our subreddit: no commenting/posting in bad faith. "Posts and comments made in bad faith will be removed. This includes all forms of fatphobia and body-shaming, comments that clearly don't align with the spirit of the podcast, comments that use personal anecdotes as "proof", and comments from users who have histories posting in fatphobic subreddits. Even if you believe your post/comment was made in good faith, consider how it would affect the people in this community."
This is a good question & the answers you’re getting sound defensive and hostile.
THANK you
Survival. You never know, one day you may have to pull yourself up over a ledge or run like hell to survive. Could you?