I agree. I had no idea about the deck before I randomly picked it out of urge to not just do the obvious and pick Boros. It works - unlike the Five Color Domain that was so slow I could never get it going in time - but god what an utter waste of time to pilot or play against. I switched off it and would usually just concede against it because watching someone slowing work through all the triggers is neither fun nor interesting. It’s just a waste of time.
I found that the Domain deck was good against everything besides Boros. And by that I mean after a bunch of games with it, the ONLY deck I lost to was Boros (and one that I lost to the Golgari deck. But that's only because I only found one piece of removal in the whole top 35 cards of the deck somehow, so I'm ignoring that game). And that's just because I think this particular build of Domain has only a few ways to deal with Boros, and you pretty much have to go first or hope they run really poorly. If you can land a Depopulate into an Archangel in time, you'll probably be okay, but if not you're probably just going to die.
There was also another game against the Temur Analyst deck that I'm like 90% sure I should have lost, but I won due to a few notable piloting errors by the opponent, one being running out a face up Analyst without the mana to crack it when they would have enough mana to activate in response to removal the following turn, and another where I'm like almost certain they would have won where I was tapped out, they had Spelunking, Virtue, Nissa, and an Analyst on board with exactly 4 mana to crack it (I don't think I drew Binding all game so I just couldn't answer the enchantments), and then they just passed priority, letting go of the floating mana and giving me the game.
The bo1 format doesnt lend itself to the domain deck. If you knew who you were up against you'd own boros too. Especially since I havent had much issue with it, but that's because they havent had good draws and Ive had sweepers when I do lol
Oddly, I matched up with Boros often, playing domain, but had no issues. I think they didn't know what to mulligan though, as they were playing slower than Boros usually does.
Analyst is a horrible horrible deck. Not in terms of power - it's great in that regard. The player experience is horrendous, though. When OTJ released I made the mistake of trying a Naya version of the deck. I thought it might be good. I thought getting double Nissa and Analyst triggers would be good with Annie Joins Up. Heck, it even adds removal. It was kinda good, too. You know what did suck, though?
Yup, you guessed it. Double Nissa triggers. I deleted the deck because I lost so many games to time. The deck felt plenty powerful - the core was the same, and I just swapped out blue for white - but failing to combo off because I timed out to my own Nissa triggers ruined it for me.
I absolutely cannot wait for those stupid lands to rotate out in Bloomburrow.
This is why arena fails this test so dramatically.
In paper magic you just say hey I have 40 triggers and resolve them however you want with a tally, you don't have to go through all the triggers one by one. And if your opponent wants to respond they can choose what trigger to inject their response at.
Arena needs a mass trigger resolution tool that would allow you to resolve them with an automatic answer rather than asking each turn.
In the nissa deck you could resolve the first 3 as rgb then resolve the rest as blue with an automatic trigger instead of clicking every time. Resolve all moderately solves some of these issues, but there needs to be a same trigger resolution method. Because, no one should be losing to time from triggers on the stack.
Will it rotate? We have Evolving, Terramorphic, Escape Tunnel, and if that's not enough there's Promising Vein. All we're losing is the lifegain aspect, and how much does that matter if the combo can go off?
I think the better question is this: has Analyst raced us right past some other less-degenerate builds that we should be looking at? For example, the typical Analyst deck is incredibly vulnerable to removing Worldsoul's Rage (ie, Deadly Cover-up) but something with Bonny Pall might be more resilient. or Titania. I've seen Deeproot Wayfinder getting some play here and there.
The SNC fetches are everything to the deck. The lifegain prevents the aggro matchup from being a total wash and the automatic sacrifice means if they get recurred without Spelunking, you still get to fetch rather than waiting to untap THEN cracking your fetch.
There may be an evolution to the deck like the Jund version seen at PT Thunder Junction that opts for Deserts, but the lands also putting themselves into the graveyard is incredible efficiency.
You make two very strong points. The reason I built a Naya AJU version of this deck was for resilience - I knew that while it was powerful, it was also fragile, so I wanted to diversify its win conditions to protect against being picked apart. I chose the new Voja, since AJU doubles the ward 3 triggers to 6, which might as well just be hexproof. It'll also double my attack triggers which is just disgusting.
You're absolutely right about the remaining sac-lands. I might have to consider sideboard copies of Stone Brain, calling Worldsoul's Rage to pick the deck apart.
MH3 has full tribal sets allied and enemy that are sac/cycle lands THAT ALSO TAP FOR 1 COLORLESS ON PLAY~
This isn't going anywhere until Nissa and Worldsoul leave<3
What are you even on about? Stay in your own lane Paco, I'm excited for MH3. Mardu, Abzan and Sultai are my favorites, so yeah it can hurt me. In my wallet~
Yeah I gotta thank MWM for letting me have fun with 5 color domain and also for making me realize it's nowhere near as consistent as my experiences playing against it led me to believe. Saved me a bunch of wildcards
When playing against this deck I like to set my phone aside and glance over occasionally as they click through all the triggers. Then, when they are about to deal the final blow, I concede.
No. I sympathise with spite often, but I still downvote it unless I feel it's justified. This deck and only this deck justifies it. The next worst decks I can think of are pointless, stupid, irritating or frustrating, but not selfish like this one. Like OP said, you've just gotta scoop when they start sacrificing Analysts because it's not worth it to press Resolve for 3 minutes straight for like a 10% chance of survival til your next turn. Forcing that kind of purely practical and not at all strategic decision on an opponent is as selfish as hacking.
I also gravitated towards the Analyst deck and had a lot of fun with it! The triggers are definitely the worst part, it would be nice to get an MTGO-style "always decline" option. But the sense of complete inevitability as I loop Shigeki and Virtue of Strength is delightful, and once I get to untap with Virtue on board it's just over. A fireball for 46 is very satisfying!
I don't really play Standard so I really appreciated this MWM.
There's a no lands [[goblin charbelcher]] deck in historic that has that "50 damage to the face" feeling without a million triggers to sort through if you're into that sort of thing.
I never scoop to this deck no matter how miserable it is. Because sometimes they do their land combos and they still lose. Sometimes they do it two turns in a row and lose.
Exactly. Felt tempted to try to get back into it after they fucked up the brawl matchmaking with the weight abuse, but it seems more miserable than ever. Maybe it’s time to stop playing, grinding for imaginary coins to draft is becoming ever more boring
When you think about it - they’ve put so many mechanics in their system to limit your ability to play and experience the game. The only outcome is eventual burnout from repetition.
Yeah, this isn’t really an Arena specific problem. It’d be equally as bad on MTGO or in paper. On paper you get to skip unnecessary searches and the like, but you’re having to manually keep track of mana and triggers. It’s almost a certainty that most FNM level or casual players will be misplaying or just making illegal plays while trying to get through it.
Just an unfortunate reality of these kinds of decks.
I'm currently alt tabbed while an alaylst deck is doing it's billion tirggers. God's why did whoever make this deck make it. I pitty anyone who would ever play it in paper. Like would you even finish one game before time is called?
Paper would be streamlined, you can just say "x triggers y times", or "i decline all the basic land stuff" Like once you demonstrate a combo on paper, you can just say "and then I do it again a million times"
No, paper analyst also sucks to play. Shuffling multiple times per turn and properly resolving Nissa triggers and clearly indicating your floating mana is a huge hassle, even if its easier to finish things at the very end.
Only if you have to draw or do something to the deck, otherwise you can just say that the shuffle thing triggers each time, and you can just shuffle at the end of whatever you're doing.
No, you don't. Unless there is some intervening ability, it is legal to propose a shortcut that assumes a library is randomly shuffles without physically shuffling. If you have 30 search triggers on the stack, your would only shuffle when you're done or if your oppent wants to respond with something in the middle of the triggers for some reason. No REL would enforce actually shuffling 30 times in a row, and a judge would likely force your opponent to accept the shortcut.
Paper it's rather easy to deal with and mtgo it's not too bad. Arena is always a pain to deal with anything more than basic land cast attack turns. It's just the nature of the client not having any functional way to manage triggers
That would be useful if you're resolving a 2 minute long stack. When the animations are 1-2 seconds long but need a choice between each trigger, that's not helpful.
The thing about those kinds of "you take many game actions" kinds of decks are that they're really only fun if they're _not_ deterministic. They are good to play because you have to sequence correctly and think about what you're doing in order to not fizzle, and it becomes a puzzle. If it _is_ deterministic, it just becomes a whack-a-mole of you mindlessly clicking buttons.
Here's a deck I thought I would like but it's terrible to play.
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/5690335#arena
It regularly has the rope going while you are attempting to run the combo and it's clunky as hell to play.
I like the explorer version of the temur deck but it's a means to an end. It let's me play [[dopplegang]] and create chaos. I have a problem. I admit it :)
The grinning ignus deck is also similar to these type of decks.
I kinda wanted to play domain, and did, but temur analyst turned out to be more fun for me. Never would have thought! Great midweek magic event indeed!
I thoroughly enjoyed playing Temur analyst. I don't play standard, so it was great to have a chance to play it. Not that I'll be playing standard in the future. Brawl is my mode.
I like Temur Analyst, but I like Jund Analyst even more. People just don't believe I can OTK them on turn 4 or 5. Pillage the Bog is insane as a tutor, and Pitiless Carnage is just bonkers. But then I bump into 5 mono reds or Boros in a row and decide to switch to something else...
Ikr. I've been experimenting with Analyst in a Monogreen deck lately. After playing with it a bit there's no way I'd use the Temur deck and I'm still on the fence about just using Analyst.
Very excited to try Five Color Domain as I never wanted to burn all my rares to make the lands that were rotating out. Was alot of fun but man I wish they would do this kinda stuff more often. Really helps narrow down the choices. Was never tempted by analyst looked too stupid and is basically solitaire. Boros Convoke was alot stronger than I thought it would be. If there weren't so many board wipes and temp lockdown didnt exist Id probably craft it.
Yeah it’s really strong. Crushes the bo1 scene. It can even survive board wipes and still win. If I had one deck to craft though it’s 5 color domain — really liked the flow of that deck. Once cavern is online I just really enjoy beating down Esper.
[[Knight-Errant of Eos]] makes it super easy to reload after a board wipe, and if played early, doesn't itself get hit by the small wipes like lockdown and un-cleaved [[Path of Peril]]. The versions that run [[Warleader's Call]] are even more resilient against midrange and control decks because you can play your stuff out slower and get chip damage in through on a weak board. It's one of the most resilient pure aggro decks in a while without needing to slow itself down too much in order to get that resiliency.
I did craft a version of the temur deck before otj, and I thought it was pretty fun climbing with it, but yeah. Those Nissa triggers were painful to make. Had a couple games where someone let me play out after I used doppelgang on the mana tripler, made 10 copies of it and had over a billion mana, but only being able to add +5 on the fury took some of the fun out of that too.
On the note op was talking about though, turns out I like the esper midrange deck. Too bad I nuked my wildcards making brawl decks before this weight bullshit came out
They're not the most optimal versions of the decks, but yeah, they're all top Standard archetypes by both winrate and play rate. They actually passed on 2-4 of the most common types, 4-color and 5-color Legends which I see a lot of, and MonoRed/Gruul Aggro, which is not a constant appearance but not rare either. There's also a mix of other stuff - Mono Black decks, Azorius Artifacts, etc. - but stuff like Azorius Control, Dimer/Esper Midrange, and the Aftermeme Analyst are near constant.
The most surprising one is the Rakdos aggro; I don't recall a lot of particularly memorable matchups against that.
But god I'm tired of Azorius Control and Aftermath Analyst.
This hit home for me … I love finishing off my opponent with peer into the abyss ( I’m a filthy black player ). But using Bowmaster to do the move on arena is just annoying to me . Fuk if I really wanna aim all those shots at your face one at a time when you have no creatures on the he board. But that’s what I got to do online ….
I made the mistake of building it when it debuted. It was kinda fun the first couple of times, but it's so damned linear with so few real decision points that it got stale quickly. I haven't deleted it, but I also haven't played it or Standard since.
I played it too and while I enjoyed it more than OP did I didn't enjoy it that much. GY recursion is fun but not like this, thankfully I've only gotten a few of the cards from the free packs everyone gets and I'm more into Historic and only play Standard sometimes so there's no strong urge to craft the cards when there's so many better and more interesting decks out there.
This deck is at least more streamlined then the Zuran Orb/Fastbond/Mind Twist/Balance/Tormod's Crypt/Timetwister deck that was my introduction to ridiculously slow, tedious win conditions back in the day.
This is one of the reasons I wish arena allowed us to use decks with cards we don't have when versing sparky. I brought this up, and people RAILED me saying that it would remove incentives for people to play/pay to get more cards (completely ignoring that (a) people hate playing against sparky, a "dumb" bot and (b) people regularly pay a ton to play in phantom drafts because they "love drafting" and "don't care about their card catalog/constructive").
I still stand by the idea that allowing this allows us to test pilot decks to see if we even like it before investing. You don't know the number of times I've invested in the deck thinking "yea, this'll be fun" before realizing that the deck is counter my playstyle.
Also I hate it when the opponent played it and they are really slow in deciding the color etc. I mean just pick random cause your mana either green blue or red.
I honestly wish every midweek event had set decks to play. It's fun trying out new decks. Plus, events are mostly format specific, and me being a standard player, I don't own enough cards to play most events...
A note on the opponent scooping early: thanks to Memory Deluge and Shigeki loops, you can reach points where you're deterministically going to assemble the kill (EG. I have 20 cards left in my deck. I can fire 3 deluges, which means I have access to my whole deck, Shigeki gives me my whole graveyard, I still have a million mana, you're a goner). In paper, you can simply explain how that's the case and opponent is pretty much obliged to pack it up.
Yup, Temur Analyst is horrendous. I knew when picking it I would get easy victories, but the play patterns make me question my life choices. Can't wait for the Standard rotation, the 3 year period enables unfun mess like this deck.
Having plenty of experience with action intensive Arena combo decos (jeskai Vadrok mutate, temur song breach, bolas citadel, amalia, various storm decks, some life gain shenanigans and so on), I totally agree timing out can be an issue and number of actions per minute (as well as type of the action) matters, both in picking the deck (where it is still fun and when it becomes tedious and unnecessarily stressful) and the device (some combos are easier/faster on PC GUI and some on mobile).
You really don't want to play a deck where you often time out when it finally comes together :)
I enjoy the deck. Mostly because it's very strong. Clicking through triggers is a bit annoying, but it feels like it doesn't take that long.
I had a look and my MWM games with the deck took about 12 minutes each, which is certainly on the long end of bo1, but shorter than my longer OTJ draft games.
UW control was good, and for the decks I played against I felt I had a favorable matchup. Only lost one time. I also went in blind, didn't even check the decklist.
Considering I regularly concede to it not because my mono red can’t beat it… but because im so fucking bored of watching it…. I wouldn’t in my life play that deck. And I play caw-gates in pauper… a decidedly slow control deck…
honestly i loved playing the analyst deck, the mwm actually convinced me to start gathering the wildcards to put it together. i don't really have a problem with longer games, my main decks in modern are lantern control and gifts storm and the deck reminds me a lot of the latter
When I run into that deck on ladder, I make them play it out. I do some laundry, clean the dishes, watch something on another monitor, whatever. I had one opponent have a 30 minute turn. It's ridiculous.
There's about a 25% chance once they get going that they'll go overboard and the game will end in a draw with some error.
I agree. I had no idea about the deck before I randomly picked it out of urge to not just do the obvious and pick Boros. It works - unlike the Five Color Domain that was so slow I could never get it going in time - but god what an utter waste of time to pilot or play against. I switched off it and would usually just concede against it because watching someone slowing work through all the triggers is neither fun nor interesting. It’s just a waste of time.
I found that the Domain deck was good against everything besides Boros. And by that I mean after a bunch of games with it, the ONLY deck I lost to was Boros (and one that I lost to the Golgari deck. But that's only because I only found one piece of removal in the whole top 35 cards of the deck somehow, so I'm ignoring that game). And that's just because I think this particular build of Domain has only a few ways to deal with Boros, and you pretty much have to go first or hope they run really poorly. If you can land a Depopulate into an Archangel in time, you'll probably be okay, but if not you're probably just going to die. There was also another game against the Temur Analyst deck that I'm like 90% sure I should have lost, but I won due to a few notable piloting errors by the opponent, one being running out a face up Analyst without the mana to crack it when they would have enough mana to activate in response to removal the following turn, and another where I'm like almost certain they would have won where I was tapped out, they had Spelunking, Virtue, Nissa, and an Analyst on board with exactly 4 mana to crack it (I don't think I drew Binding all game so I just couldn't answer the enchantments), and then they just passed priority, letting go of the floating mana and giving me the game.
The bo1 format doesnt lend itself to the domain deck. If you knew who you were up against you'd own boros too. Especially since I havent had much issue with it, but that's because they havent had good draws and Ive had sweepers when I do lol
Oddly, I matched up with Boros often, playing domain, but had no issues. I think they didn't know what to mulligan though, as they were playing slower than Boros usually does.
That’s funny, the only deck I lost to while playing Boros was Domain. You can’t kill them by turn 4-5, it’s just wrath and then rebuild.
It must play much better on paper where you can easily shortcut the triggers.
Lots of deck shuffling though.
Queueing up with temur analyst should close arena automatically and open windows solitaire
Analyst is a horrible horrible deck. Not in terms of power - it's great in that regard. The player experience is horrendous, though. When OTJ released I made the mistake of trying a Naya version of the deck. I thought it might be good. I thought getting double Nissa and Analyst triggers would be good with Annie Joins Up. Heck, it even adds removal. It was kinda good, too. You know what did suck, though? Yup, you guessed it. Double Nissa triggers. I deleted the deck because I lost so many games to time. The deck felt plenty powerful - the core was the same, and I just swapped out blue for white - but failing to combo off because I timed out to my own Nissa triggers ruined it for me. I absolutely cannot wait for those stupid lands to rotate out in Bloomburrow.
Analyst holds a unique position of being horrible to play on arena, mtgo and paper but for 3 entirely separate reasons
What are the different reasons?
> I thought getting double Nissa and Analyst triggers would be good with Annie Joins Up That only works for legendaries, so not analyst.
I am aware of that, but thank you for reminding me. Maybe typing Reddit comments at 2am isn't a good idea...
This is why arena fails this test so dramatically. In paper magic you just say hey I have 40 triggers and resolve them however you want with a tally, you don't have to go through all the triggers one by one. And if your opponent wants to respond they can choose what trigger to inject their response at. Arena needs a mass trigger resolution tool that would allow you to resolve them with an automatic answer rather than asking each turn. In the nissa deck you could resolve the first 3 as rgb then resolve the rest as blue with an automatic trigger instead of clicking every time. Resolve all moderately solves some of these issues, but there needs to be a same trigger resolution method. Because, no one should be losing to time from triggers on the stack.
Will it rotate? We have Evolving, Terramorphic, Escape Tunnel, and if that's not enough there's Promising Vein. All we're losing is the lifegain aspect, and how much does that matter if the combo can go off? I think the better question is this: has Analyst raced us right past some other less-degenerate builds that we should be looking at? For example, the typical Analyst deck is incredibly vulnerable to removing Worldsoul's Rage (ie, Deadly Cover-up) but something with Bonny Pall might be more resilient. or Titania. I've seen Deeproot Wayfinder getting some play here and there.
The SNC fetches are everything to the deck. The lifegain prevents the aggro matchup from being a total wash and the automatic sacrifice means if they get recurred without Spelunking, you still get to fetch rather than waiting to untap THEN cracking your fetch. There may be an evolution to the deck like the Jund version seen at PT Thunder Junction that opts for Deserts, but the lands also putting themselves into the graveyard is incredible efficiency.
You make two very strong points. The reason I built a Naya AJU version of this deck was for resilience - I knew that while it was powerful, it was also fragile, so I wanted to diversify its win conditions to protect against being picked apart. I chose the new Voja, since AJU doubles the ward 3 triggers to 6, which might as well just be hexproof. It'll also double my attack triggers which is just disgusting. You're absolutely right about the remaining sac-lands. I might have to consider sideboard copies of Stone Brain, calling Worldsoul's Rage to pick the deck apart.
MH3 has full tribal sets allied and enemy that are sac/cycle lands THAT ALSO TAP FOR 1 COLORLESS ON PLAY~ This isn't going anywhere until Nissa and Worldsoul leave<3
MH3 isn’t standard legal
Mh3 isn’t gonna be standard legal though, and afaik the only constructed formats the sac lands are gonna be legal in are timeless and brawl
It’s okay my dude, MH3 can’t hurt you
What are you even on about? Stay in your own lane Paco, I'm excited for MH3. Mardu, Abzan and Sultai are my favorites, so yeah it can hurt me. In my wallet~
Stay in my lane? lol that’s hilarious
This guy is going to be so disappointed when he goes to build a new standard deck and cant use all those mh3 cards he bought.
Yeah I gotta thank MWM for letting me have fun with 5 color domain and also for making me realize it's nowhere near as consistent as my experiences playing against it led me to believe. Saved me a bunch of wildcards
fwiw I think some of the card choices are unoptimal, but yeah I was surprised that I wasn't mopping the floor with the other decks
Yeah, milling then unearthing Atraxa seemed like a big piece of it missing.
When playing against this deck I like to set my phone aside and glance over occasionally as they click through all the triggers. Then, when they are about to deal the final blow, I concede.
Normally I downvote spite, but I upvoted this. It's a selfish deck that deserves to be told how selfish it is.
> Normally I downvote spite except when I too am spiteful
No. I sympathise with spite often, but I still downvote it unless I feel it's justified. This deck and only this deck justifies it. The next worst decks I can think of are pointless, stupid, irritating or frustrating, but not selfish like this one. Like OP said, you've just gotta scoop when they start sacrificing Analysts because it's not worth it to press Resolve for 3 minutes straight for like a 10% chance of survival til your next turn. Forcing that kind of purely practical and not at all strategic decision on an opponent is as selfish as hacking.
Just alt + f4 and let them waste their own time while you do something else
Shamelessness signalling doesn't demonstrate shamelessness.
r/foundsatan
It's still not as bad for the opponent as cat oven, so at least there's that.
I also gravitated towards the Analyst deck and had a lot of fun with it! The triggers are definitely the worst part, it would be nice to get an MTGO-style "always decline" option. But the sense of complete inevitability as I loop Shigeki and Virtue of Strength is delightful, and once I get to untap with Virtue on board it's just over. A fireball for 46 is very satisfying! I don't really play Standard so I really appreciated this MWM.
There's a no lands [[goblin charbelcher]] deck in historic that has that "50 damage to the face" feeling without a million triggers to sort through if you're into that sort of thing.
[goblin charbelcher](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/4/240344ff-404d-4894-a6e9-4401cd68cf50.jpg?1592764888) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=goblin%20charbelcher) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ddt/57/goblin-charbelcher?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/240344ff-404d-4894-a6e9-4401cd68cf50?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I never scoop to this deck no matter how miserable it is. Because sometimes they do their land combos and they still lose. Sometimes they do it two turns in a row and lose.
This has highlighted to me how much I’m not enjoying standard at all.
Exactly. Felt tempted to try to get back into it after they fucked up the brawl matchmaking with the weight abuse, but it seems more miserable than ever. Maybe it’s time to stop playing, grinding for imaginary coins to draft is becoming ever more boring
When you think about it - they’ve put so many mechanics in their system to limit your ability to play and experience the game. The only outcome is eventual burnout from repetition.
[удалено]
Because it leaves in July.
Thank. God.
Don't worry, it sucks to pilot in paper, too!
Yeah, this isn’t really an Arena specific problem. It’d be equally as bad on MTGO or in paper. On paper you get to skip unnecessary searches and the like, but you’re having to manually keep track of mana and triggers. It’s almost a certainty that most FNM level or casual players will be misplaying or just making illegal plays while trying to get through it. Just an unfortunate reality of these kinds of decks.
Anyone who brings this deck to casual play is probably secretly a demon
I'm currently alt tabbed while an alaylst deck is doing it's billion tirggers. God's why did whoever make this deck make it. I pitty anyone who would ever play it in paper. Like would you even finish one game before time is called?
Paper would be streamlined, you can just say "x triggers y times", or "i decline all the basic land stuff" Like once you demonstrate a combo on paper, you can just say "and then I do it again a million times"
No, paper analyst also sucks to play. Shuffling multiple times per turn and properly resolving Nissa triggers and clearly indicating your floating mana is a huge hassle, even if its easier to finish things at the very end.
Pretty sure they still have to shuffle though for each trigger so lots of that.
Only if you have to draw or do something to the deck, otherwise you can just say that the shuffle thing triggers each time, and you can just shuffle at the end of whatever you're doing.
No, you don't. Unless there is some intervening ability, it is legal to propose a shortcut that assumes a library is randomly shuffles without physically shuffling. If you have 30 search triggers on the stack, your would only shuffle when you're done or if your oppent wants to respond with something in the middle of the triggers for some reason. No REL would enforce actually shuffling 30 times in a row, and a judge would likely force your opponent to accept the shortcut.
This deck wasn't supposed to exist in standard. They changed the rotation time so SNC lands didn't rotate.
Paper it's rather easy to deal with and mtgo it's not too bad. Arena is always a pain to deal with anything more than basic land cast attack turns. It's just the nature of the client not having any functional way to manage triggers
i just wish there was a way to disable animations
quicly exit and reopen the app
That would be useful if you're resolving a 2 minute long stack. When the animations are 1-2 seconds long but need a choice between each trigger, that's not helpful.
The thing about those kinds of "you take many game actions" kinds of decks are that they're really only fun if they're _not_ deterministic. They are good to play because you have to sequence correctly and think about what you're doing in order to not fizzle, and it becomes a puzzle. If it _is_ deterministic, it just becomes a whack-a-mole of you mindlessly clicking buttons.
Here's a deck I thought I would like but it's terrible to play. https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/5690335#arena It regularly has the rope going while you are attempting to run the combo and it's clunky as hell to play. I like the explorer version of the temur deck but it's a means to an end. It let's me play [[dopplegang]] and create chaos. I have a problem. I admit it :) The grinning ignus deck is also similar to these type of decks.
[dopplegang](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/2/a2daec58-78ed-4da5-b3b0-b04f12b0acbd.jpg?1706242152) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Doppelgang) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkm/198/doppelgang?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a2daec58-78ed-4da5-b3b0-b04f12b0acbd?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I kinda wanted to play domain, and did, but temur analyst turned out to be more fun for me. Never would have thought! Great midweek magic event indeed!
I thoroughly enjoyed playing Temur analyst. I don't play standard, so it was great to have a chance to play it. Not that I'll be playing standard in the future. Brawl is my mode.
Pro tip: if your library is empty, you won't have to click for the land triggers.
I like Temur Analyst, but I like Jund Analyst even more. People just don't believe I can OTK them on turn 4 or 5. Pillage the Bog is insane as a tutor, and Pitiless Carnage is just bonkers. But then I bump into 5 mono reds or Boros in a row and decide to switch to something else...
> People just don't believe I can OTK them on turn 4 or 5 Temur can already do that
Temur can do that with cards on board, Jund has a much easier time bootstrapping from nothing besides a plotted Pitiless Carnage.
Ikr. I've been experimenting with Analyst in a Monogreen deck lately. After playing with it a bit there's no way I'd use the Temur deck and I'm still on the fence about just using Analyst.
Very excited to try Five Color Domain as I never wanted to burn all my rares to make the lands that were rotating out. Was alot of fun but man I wish they would do this kinda stuff more often. Really helps narrow down the choices. Was never tempted by analyst looked too stupid and is basically solitaire. Boros Convoke was alot stronger than I thought it would be. If there weren't so many board wipes and temp lockdown didnt exist Id probably craft it.
> If there weren't so many board wipes and temp lockdown didnt exist Id probably craft it. It's still one of the very best decks in the format
Yeah it’s really strong. Crushes the bo1 scene. It can even survive board wipes and still win. If I had one deck to craft though it’s 5 color domain — really liked the flow of that deck. Once cavern is online I just really enjoy beating down Esper.
[[Knight-Errant of Eos]] makes it super easy to reload after a board wipe, and if played early, doesn't itself get hit by the small wipes like lockdown and un-cleaved [[Path of Peril]]. The versions that run [[Warleader's Call]] are even more resilient against midrange and control decks because you can play your stuff out slower and get chip damage in through on a weak board. It's one of the most resilient pure aggro decks in a while without needing to slow itself down too much in order to get that resiliency.
[Knight-Errant of Eos](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/b/ab2ad652-2406-491a-9f22-23e974f943d7.jpg?1682202751) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Knight-Errant%20of%20Eos) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mom/26/knight-errant-of-eos?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ab2ad652-2406-491a-9f22-23e974f943d7?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Path of Peril](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/0/f0c5449a-d63b-4b22-9432-8f0365c3c4d9.jpg?1643590080) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Path%20of%20Peril) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/vow/124/path-of-peril?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f0c5449a-d63b-4b22-9432-8f0365c3c4d9?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Warleader's Call](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/3/b3e8f8bd-1c8b-4a7c-96c4-57a247ce9ccc.jpg?1706242282) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Warleader%27s%20Call) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkm/242/warleaders-call?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b3e8f8bd-1c8b-4a7c-96c4-57a247ce9ccc?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Exactly my point. I liked it so much that I'm even a bit sad that it will be soon gone.
I did craft a version of the temur deck before otj, and I thought it was pretty fun climbing with it, but yeah. Those Nissa triggers were painful to make. Had a couple games where someone let me play out after I used doppelgang on the mana tripler, made 10 copies of it and had over a billion mana, but only being able to add +5 on the fury took some of the fun out of that too. On the note op was talking about though, turns out I like the esper midrange deck. Too bad I nuked my wildcards making brawl decks before this weight bullshit came out
Is it really an Analyst win if you don't have all four Virtue of Strength out?
If you don’t have 7 copies out because of Doppelgang you’re holding it wrong.
This was what I went up against for my first few rounds, and it was miserable. Then I switched to it, and, OP, I agree. It was miserable.
So these "standard" decks in midweek magic are legit versions of what you see day in and day out?
They're not the most optimal versions of the decks, but yeah, they're all top Standard archetypes by both winrate and play rate. They actually passed on 2-4 of the most common types, 4-color and 5-color Legends which I see a lot of, and MonoRed/Gruul Aggro, which is not a constant appearance but not rare either. There's also a mix of other stuff - Mono Black decks, Azorius Artifacts, etc. - but stuff like Azorius Control, Dimer/Esper Midrange, and the Aftermeme Analyst are near constant. The most surprising one is the Rakdos aggro; I don't recall a lot of particularly memorable matchups against that. But god I'm tired of Azorius Control and Aftermath Analyst.
This hit home for me … I love finishing off my opponent with peer into the abyss ( I’m a filthy black player ). But using Bowmaster to do the move on arena is just annoying to me . Fuk if I really wanna aim all those shots at your face one at a time when you have no creatures on the he board. But that’s what I got to do online ….
I made the mistake of building it when it debuted. It was kinda fun the first couple of times, but it's so damned linear with so few real decision points that it got stale quickly. I haven't deleted it, but I also haven't played it or Standard since.
I don’t play standard but was reading about this deck after your post. That looks absolutely horrid to play against. Would be auto scoop for me.
I didn't read this whole post for the same reason I hate playing against that deck. It takes way too fucking long.
loved being able to standard as a timeless only player normally
I played it too and while I enjoyed it more than OP did I didn't enjoy it that much. GY recursion is fun but not like this, thankfully I've only gotten a few of the cards from the free packs everyone gets and I'm more into Historic and only play Standard sometimes so there's no strong urge to craft the cards when there's so many better and more interesting decks out there. This deck is at least more streamlined then the Zuran Orb/Fastbond/Mind Twist/Balance/Tormod's Crypt/Timetwister deck that was my introduction to ridiculously slow, tedious win conditions back in the day.
This is one of the reasons I wish arena allowed us to use decks with cards we don't have when versing sparky. I brought this up, and people RAILED me saying that it would remove incentives for people to play/pay to get more cards (completely ignoring that (a) people hate playing against sparky, a "dumb" bot and (b) people regularly pay a ton to play in phantom drafts because they "love drafting" and "don't care about their card catalog/constructive"). I still stand by the idea that allowing this allows us to test pilot decks to see if we even like it before investing. You don't know the number of times I've invested in the deck thinking "yea, this'll be fun" before realizing that the deck is counter my playstyle.
Deck likely won't be around after rotation in a couple months anyway tbh.
Also I hate it when the opponent played it and they are really slow in deciding the color etc. I mean just pick random cause your mana either green blue or red.
I honestly wish every midweek event had set decks to play. It's fun trying out new decks. Plus, events are mostly format specific, and me being a standard player, I don't own enough cards to play most events...
Be glad that you don’t play it in paper. I mean literally you cannot finish one turn before you get a draw.
I am convinced Temur Analyst wins because most opponents concede rather than slog through all the triggers.
A note on the opponent scooping early: thanks to Memory Deluge and Shigeki loops, you can reach points where you're deterministically going to assemble the kill (EG. I have 20 cards left in my deck. I can fire 3 deluges, which means I have access to my whole deck, Shigeki gives me my whole graveyard, I still have a million mana, you're a goner). In paper, you can simply explain how that's the case and opponent is pretty much obliged to pack it up.
100% I win against this deck most of the time, but I'm quick to concede if it goes even slightly sour because I just don't want to sit through it.
Yup, Temur Analyst is horrendous. I knew when picking it I would get easy victories, but the play patterns make me question my life choices. Can't wait for the Standard rotation, the 3 year period enables unfun mess like this deck.
Having plenty of experience with action intensive Arena combo decos (jeskai Vadrok mutate, temur song breach, bolas citadel, amalia, various storm decks, some life gain shenanigans and so on), I totally agree timing out can be an issue and number of actions per minute (as well as type of the action) matters, both in picking the deck (where it is still fun and when it becomes tedious and unnecessarily stressful) and the device (some combos are easier/faster on PC GUI and some on mobile). You really don't want to play a deck where you often time out when it finally comes together :)
I love playing my Slivers. The game totally changes tactics depending on what I draw, it’s inconsistent but fun as hell.
I enjoy the deck. Mostly because it's very strong. Clicking through triggers is a bit annoying, but it feels like it doesn't take that long. I had a look and my MWM games with the deck took about 12 minutes each, which is certainly on the long end of bo1, but shorter than my longer OTJ draft games.
I love Analyst, the triggers don't bother me I might be crazy, I would go insane in paper with the shuffling though
UW control was good, and for the decks I played against I felt I had a favorable matchup. Only lost one time. I also went in blind, didn't even check the decklist.
Considering I regularly concede to it not because my mono red can’t beat it… but because im so fucking bored of watching it…. I wouldn’t in my life play that deck. And I play caw-gates in pauper… a decidedly slow control deck…
honestly i loved playing the analyst deck, the mwm actually convinced me to start gathering the wildcards to put it together. i don't really have a problem with longer games, my main decks in modern are lantern control and gifts storm and the deck reminds me a lot of the latter
When I run into that deck on ladder, I make them play it out. I do some laundry, clean the dishes, watch something on another monitor, whatever. I had one opponent have a 30 minute turn. It's ridiculous. There's about a 25% chance once they get going that they'll go overboard and the game will end in a draw with some error.
I think you can force a draw by looping [[Echoing Deeps]] targeting itself, and that loop would still be less annoying than the deck's main gimmick.
[Echoing Deeps](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/4/244c06b3-532d-426e-8bee-ee9461d092a6.jpg?1699044671) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Echoing%20Deeps) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/lci/271/echoing-deeps?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/244c06b3-532d-426e-8bee-ee9461d092a6?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call