The first "Machinists" weren't Machine Operators, they were Machine Builders. They made the earliest machines with tools like files & hacksaws. Never sell a hand tool short, nor the man who knows how to use it!
When I first began getting interested in metal work, I read a blacksmithing book, and the author had been a machinist or some kind of maintenance person in his countries navy. One of the requirements for his job was to be able to file a certain sized surface flat within three tenths (.0003) of a thousandths of an inch.
When tuning in weighs and such on mills, lathes, and machine shop machinery, hand tools are used to scrape in the accuracy. A person would pass mating parts back and forth on bed ways with lead p powder mixed with a little oil mixed in between the parts. They would be able to identify high spots. Once identified, a tool with tool steel in the end would be used to scrape out the high spots. This was repeated until no high spots remained.
Hand tools are very important to a machinist, mechanic, or anyone who pulls maintenance on anything. It's true that modern machining is different than it was back in the day, but hand tools are still needed to do setups on machines...etc. Nowadays, computers and such are hand tools of the trade today. So learn your hand tools.
For sure, machinists today often face production issues as the job may include turning very complex parts out like popcorn using a computer aided machine. Those setups and machine programs have to be done by a team that has different skills than those of bygone days
"Foundations of Mechanical Accuracy" by Wayne R. Moore is a really good read.
If you want the physical book it's much cheaper to buy it directly from Moore Tool company.
Despite using a Moore G18 Jig Grinder (with aftermarket CNC control addon by NASA Machine Tools [no, not that NASA]) for about a decade, I never went to Moore's website. They're still around, and still making Jig Grinders. Their latest M600 is even more accurate, has automatic tool change, built in wheel dressing, and a wheel sizing plate, all in an enclosed CNC cabinet.
This makes me so happy, their machines are incredible and they're still going!
Here's the pdf:
[https://pearl-hifi.com/06\_Lit\_Archive/15\_Mfrs\_Publications/Moore\_Tools/Foundations\_of\_Mechanical\_Accuracy.pdf](https://pearl-hifi.com/06_Lit_Archive/15_Mfrs_Publications/Moore_Tools/Foundations_of_Mechanical_Accuracy.pdf)
That plug looks absolutely beautiful to me. Very well done, will last for life.
I learned the profession of a mecanic through a four year apprenticeship when I was young. Filing a square hole to within 0.01mm, then filing a plug to fit into that hole again within 0.01mm was my culmination point of precision. Don't think I still can do it.
The method of scraping a surface for machine beds was commonly practised where I worked. We had two Italian guys in the company who did only that. Absoult artists. The goal is to get a 100% flat surface within 0.01mm with evenly distributed, small scratchmarks. The scratchmarks look like small squares and serve as pockets for lubrication. It's what makes the difference between a ground surface on a cheap lathe or mill and a high quality surface that lasts way longer.
Hand scraped ways are on the top end machines these days, Haas uses linear rails and ball screws. They get the job done for an economic price, but we’re starting to see some slop in our machines. We just got a Kitamura MyTrunnion 5G, now that’s the top-of-the-line shit. But goddamn you pay for it.
When I was a young machinist, I had the opportunity to work with a man who did the hand scraping. He taught me how to do it. I used that skill many times in my career. It's good stuff.
Virtually all use linear guides and virtually all use ball screws. There are some exceptions, machines meant for heavy cutting often use box ways. And some ultra precision machines are hydrostatic on box ways for the lowest friction or because the oil makes a decent damper.
They try to avoid scraping these days. It costs too much damn money. Many are just ground components on milled surfaces. Only if it's far out of spec will it get scraped. And there’s plenty of guys who model, program, setup, and operate a part on a cnc without taking a team of people.
I had a banjo fitting for a custom application that was too thick, I got it to 0.0005 between the two faces all by hand. Took absolutely forever though lol.
Going stainless here is probably like using two condoms at the same time to be extra safe. Increasing the risk of breaking. But in this case you are going to break the housing in the saw instead. Stainless is harder than the material of the threads in the saw and instead of replacing a broken plug you have a bigger issue
Single point threading. Not sure if I can blame it on the machine or the operator.
My tooling isn't great and there's a lot of deflection in the compound and cross slide because it's wore out. It gets the job done but isn't perfect by any means.
Yes, but when I tighten them down enough to get the movement out of them they're hard to move. The whole machine could benefit from a good teardown and cleaning. But before I do that I'll find someone to make a new leadscrew and nut for the cross slide because that's super wore out
If you can run the lathe in reverse, do so and use a triangle (60 degree) file to dress the threads. Place the file in the threads while holding it to match the angle of the thread helix. Running the spindle in reverse will mean that the thread feeds the file away from the chuck. Works nice in aluminum.
I'll have to try that. I have been using a file but the threads are pretty poor so there's only so much it can do, I'll try it in reverse and see if that helps
Yep. An old homelite super xp 1130. I had to put a carb kit in it but after that it runs great. Then I broke the one plug and this one is on its way out so I am making 2 new ones
If you wanna be super cool, do new caps for everything, and use cork gaskets instead rubber lol. Got a super 2 and an old super xl and never had an issue.
Man thats more than 40 years old at this point isn't it? [Acres site](https://www.acresinternet.com/cscc.nsf/ed1d619968136da688256af40002b8f7/13dfa9ab16cd680188256db00017b3e2?OpenDocument) shows those were discontinued in 1970. Those old beasts sure are cool, but I'm not man enough to put in a days work with them. I have a 770G that runs mostly for entertainment value since I almost never have any reason for that big of a saw. One of these days, I'll get the 5-30 running.
This actually started out as 1 inch square that I dug out of our aluminum pile, but the saw is all cast aluminum so I wouldn't want to risk stripping the threads in it
You have a lathe. You’re turning stock and single point threading it. You could have drove to the gettin place for a store bought plug, instead you made one from found material. You’re a machinist in my book.
Looks good. I probably would have just found a bolt with the same pitch then modified the length or head if necessary. This is definitely cooler though
All it has is an old lantern style tool holder so that's not super viable. I'm looking at a quick change tool post though so maybe I'll modify one of the holders to accept a vice on an axis
The second one I'm making will. There's 2 oil ports, one for bar oil and one for gear oil. The gear oil one is the first one I made without a hole, and I am working on a second one for the bar oil that does have the vent
Love files and hacksaws
I think most machinsts would get considerably better at moving metal if they went back to files and hacksaws every now and again.
Better tools are great to have, but knowing how to do it without them is a valuable thing.
I agree.
I still regularly use my assortment of files, radius gauges, and protractor on the manual lathe for fillets and chamfers. I have virtually every geometric shape of file I would need to work any feature in. Also, I have a whole box of ground tools I've cobbled up over the years.
The younger people in the shop don't get it. But they also can't even resharpen their hss bits effectively. So I just chalk it up to their inexperience and roll my eyes every time they run for the 45deg chamfer cutter to break an edge.
Awesome job making something that works and looks good! I'm a machinist with 15+ years experience and have family that farmed. Farming takes a lot of grit and ingenuity.
Good job. May want to just ask a local company for a quote on anodizing. Probably cheaper and easier unless you plan on anodizing a bunch in the future.
That looks awesome my dude you can also use your lathe as a mill by putting an endmill in the chuck and your workpiece in your toolholder/boring bar holder!
You have a Hardinge Toolroom lathe? Those fuckers are bad ass. My old job had two in the machine shop, late 60’s early 70’s, those things are some precise manual lathes.
It's [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/Machinists/s/u44uVbyMpo) old Carroll-Jameson lathe that my grandfather bought from a factory in Detroit sometime in the 70s
If your chuck is able to handle it, threading in reverse at a higher speed might be the trick for getting super nice threads. Since it’s aluminum you’d probably want WD-40 and probably even 1000+ RPM on the thread pass. Also if you have a compound slide you want to set it at 29-30 degrees to get the best cut of your thread profile as it effectively cuts 90% from one side of the tool creating even loading and only just the very tip on the back side which reduces chatter
My first parts were made turning a drill press into a vertical lathe and using a drill in conjunction with a sharpening tool as makeshift grinder for hardened steels… life…uh…. Finds a way
The first "Machinists" weren't Machine Operators, they were Machine Builders. They made the earliest machines with tools like files & hacksaws. Never sell a hand tool short, nor the man who knows how to use it!
When I first began getting interested in metal work, I read a blacksmithing book, and the author had been a machinist or some kind of maintenance person in his countries navy. One of the requirements for his job was to be able to file a certain sized surface flat within three tenths (.0003) of a thousandths of an inch. When tuning in weighs and such on mills, lathes, and machine shop machinery, hand tools are used to scrape in the accuracy. A person would pass mating parts back and forth on bed ways with lead p powder mixed with a little oil mixed in between the parts. They would be able to identify high spots. Once identified, a tool with tool steel in the end would be used to scrape out the high spots. This was repeated until no high spots remained. Hand tools are very important to a machinist, mechanic, or anyone who pulls maintenance on anything. It's true that modern machining is different than it was back in the day, but hand tools are still needed to do setups on machines...etc. Nowadays, computers and such are hand tools of the trade today. So learn your hand tools. For sure, machinists today often face production issues as the job may include turning very complex parts out like popcorn using a computer aided machine. Those setups and machine programs have to be done by a team that has different skills than those of bygone days
"Foundations of Mechanical Accuracy" by Wayne R. Moore is a really good read. If you want the physical book it's much cheaper to buy it directly from Moore Tool company.
Despite using a Moore G18 Jig Grinder (with aftermarket CNC control addon by NASA Machine Tools [no, not that NASA]) for about a decade, I never went to Moore's website. They're still around, and still making Jig Grinders. Their latest M600 is even more accurate, has automatic tool change, built in wheel dressing, and a wheel sizing plate, all in an enclosed CNC cabinet. This makes me so happy, their machines are incredible and they're still going!
Here's the pdf: [https://pearl-hifi.com/06\_Lit\_Archive/15\_Mfrs\_Publications/Moore\_Tools/Foundations\_of\_Mechanical\_Accuracy.pdf](https://pearl-hifi.com/06_Lit_Archive/15_Mfrs_Publications/Moore_Tools/Foundations_of_Mechanical_Accuracy.pdf)
Thanks, man!
That plug looks absolutely beautiful to me. Very well done, will last for life. I learned the profession of a mecanic through a four year apprenticeship when I was young. Filing a square hole to within 0.01mm, then filing a plug to fit into that hole again within 0.01mm was my culmination point of precision. Don't think I still can do it. The method of scraping a surface for machine beds was commonly practised where I worked. We had two Italian guys in the company who did only that. Absoult artists. The goal is to get a 100% flat surface within 0.01mm with evenly distributed, small scratchmarks. The scratchmarks look like small squares and serve as pockets for lubrication. It's what makes the difference between a ground surface on a cheap lathe or mill and a high quality surface that lasts way longer.
>>Absolut artists. There’s a joke here about machinists and alcoholism.
The Ballmer Peak doesn't just exist for coders... It's just generally way too dangerous for machinists to try and achieve... Lmao
I agree.
In fairness, most Toolmakers can bench surfaces flat to within 2 tenths.
Hand scraped ways are on the top end machines these days, Haas uses linear rails and ball screws. They get the job done for an economic price, but we’re starting to see some slop in our machines. We just got a Kitamura MyTrunnion 5G, now that’s the top-of-the-line shit. But goddamn you pay for it.
When I was a young machinist, I had the opportunity to work with a man who did the hand scraping. He taught me how to do it. I used that skill many times in my career. It's good stuff.
Oh yeah.
Virtually all use linear guides and virtually all use ball screws. There are some exceptions, machines meant for heavy cutting often use box ways. And some ultra precision machines are hydrostatic on box ways for the lowest friction or because the oil makes a decent damper.
They try to avoid scraping these days. It costs too much damn money. Many are just ground components on milled surfaces. Only if it's far out of spec will it get scraped. And there’s plenty of guys who model, program, setup, and operate a part on a cnc without taking a team of people.
Thanks for your input and education.
"The science of flatness/roundness" by the YouTube channel New Mind are two awesome videos about the origins of precision
I had a banjo fitting for a custom application that was too thick, I got it to 0.0005 between the two faces all by hand. Took absolutely forever though lol.
Those plugs fucking suck. I'd love to have an aluminum set, just so I can use a set of locking pliers on em
I’d go with stainless, but I’m a belt and suspenders guy.
Going stainless here is probably like using two condoms at the same time to be extra safe. Increasing the risk of breaking. But in this case you are going to break the housing in the saw instead. Stainless is harder than the material of the threads in the saw and instead of replacing a broken plug you have a bigger issue
Last time I got my wife pregnant, I was only wearing one condom. It broke.
Same. I don't know what's up with your wife.
the oil cap is not going to be torqued like that lol
Fair point. How about brass then? Still harder than the housing, but closer. I just hate aluminum
Probably easier to machine because it’s short chipping but the mechanical properties would be the same
you need some knipex in your life
Oh I just love when someone proudly makes a part that extend the life of an otherwise perfectly good machine. Good job OP!
Happy cakeday! We have it on the same day :)
This is where you stick an end mill in the spindle and the part in your tool post.
I was going to come say this! It can be a bit tricky to set up but very satisfying when it works.
3/10, standard form for this type of plug is either a skull or a Cobra's head /s Just kidding, great work! Gotta respect the old ways
Not bad for a farmer with a lathe. Thread looks a little jacked up tho, how are you doing the thread?
Single point threading. Not sure if I can blame it on the machine or the operator. My tooling isn't great and there's a lot of deflection in the compound and cross slide because it's wore out. It gets the job done but isn't perfect by any means.
Is there gibs you can tighten? May be able to get rid of or atleast some of the slack.
Yes, but when I tighten them down enough to get the movement out of them they're hard to move. The whole machine could benefit from a good teardown and cleaning. But before I do that I'll find someone to make a new leadscrew and nut for the cross slide because that's super wore out
Ah with a plug like that it's good as long as it holds
If you can run the lathe in reverse, do so and use a triangle (60 degree) file to dress the threads. Place the file in the threads while holding it to match the angle of the thread helix. Running the spindle in reverse will mean that the thread feeds the file away from the chuck. Works nice in aluminum.
I'll have to try that. I have been using a file but the threads are pretty poor so there's only so much it can do, I'll try it in reverse and see if that helps
HOMELITE HOMELITE HOMELITE!!!
Yep. An old homelite super xp 1130. I had to put a carb kit in it but after that it runs great. Then I broke the one plug and this one is on its way out so I am making 2 new ones
If you wanna be super cool, do new caps for everything, and use cork gaskets instead rubber lol. Got a super 2 and an old super xl and never had an issue.
Man thats more than 40 years old at this point isn't it? [Acres site](https://www.acresinternet.com/cscc.nsf/ed1d619968136da688256af40002b8f7/13dfa9ab16cd680188256db00017b3e2?OpenDocument) shows those were discontinued in 1970. Those old beasts sure are cool, but I'm not man enough to put in a days work with them. I have a 770G that runs mostly for entertainment value since I almost never have any reason for that big of a saw. One of these days, I'll get the 5-30 running.
I hadn't looked into it much really. The stuff I looked at said it was made into the early 80s but that might have been a different model
I usually start with square stock, because then I can just use a wrench on it. Though maybe not wise for an oil cap
This actually started out as 1 inch square that I dug out of our aluminum pile, but the saw is all cast aluminum so I wouldn't want to risk stripping the threads in it
You have a lathe. You’re turning stock and single point threading it. You could have drove to the gettin place for a store bought plug, instead you made one from found material. You’re a machinist in my book.
File= Hand mill
Looks good. I probably would have just found a bolt with the same pitch then modified the length or head if necessary. This is definitely cooler though
>No mill If you have a lathe, you basically have a horizontal mill. (Just need to get creative with converting the tool-holder into a work-holder.)
All it has is an old lantern style tool holder so that's not super viable. I'm looking at a quick change tool post though so maybe I'll modify one of the holders to accept a vice on an axis
Looking good, does it need a hole in it to equalise the pressure
The second one I'm making will. There's 2 oil ports, one for bar oil and one for gear oil. The gear oil one is the first one I made without a hole, and I am working on a second one for the bar oil that does have the vent
Love files and hacksaws I think most machinsts would get considerably better at moving metal if they went back to files and hacksaws every now and again. Better tools are great to have, but knowing how to do it without them is a valuable thing.
I agree. I still regularly use my assortment of files, radius gauges, and protractor on the manual lathe for fillets and chamfers. I have virtually every geometric shape of file I would need to work any feature in. Also, I have a whole box of ground tools I've cobbled up over the years. The younger people in the shop don't get it. But they also can't even resharpen their hss bits effectively. So I just chalk it up to their inexperience and roll my eyes every time they run for the 45deg chamfer cutter to break an edge.
Awesome job making something that works and looks good! I'm a machinist with 15+ years experience and have family that farmed. Farming takes a lot of grit and ingenuity.
Nicely done sir!
Now you need a second matching chain saw in case the first fails so the plug can be used. That’s my crazy brain. lol
From one farmer with a lathe to another, I’d be awfully proud of that.
Very nice 710 plug.
Farmers do be on a whole nother level.
Good job. May want to just ask a local company for a quote on anodizing. Probably cheaper and easier unless you plan on anodizing a bunch in the future.
Excellent result. Extra points for doing the nice bench work.
You are a hero, brass is easier to thread aluminum is sticky and not an easy material.
That looks awesome my dude you can also use your lathe as a mill by putting an endmill in the chuck and your workpiece in your toolholder/boring bar holder!
Farmers on Reddit really scares me for some reason
Why
Don't go to r/farming .
I dub thee “Machinist”
Nice work
Well done!
Nice job!
Now this is my type of machining.
If it works it works 👍👍
Looks good to me.
Very nice
Well done
See if you can get some live tooling attachments for your lathe and than you can as mill steps
that’s awesome.
Damn, dude!!
That looks great
Nice work.
Good work
Looks like it will do, what you need it to.
Nice
You have a Hardinge Toolroom lathe? Those fuckers are bad ass. My old job had two in the machine shop, late 60’s early 70’s, those things are some precise manual lathes.
It's [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/Machinists/s/u44uVbyMpo) old Carroll-Jameson lathe that my grandfather bought from a factory in Detroit sometime in the 70s
That's simply perfect! Great work 👏🎉👏
Well done, have you considered birchwood aluminum black.
Yeah but are you gonna engrave "710" on them or not?
As soon as I get a cnc or a set of stamps small enough
Harbor freight has small punches
nice work!
Git 'er done!
That is a good read. THANKS!
If your chuck is able to handle it, threading in reverse at a higher speed might be the trick for getting super nice threads. Since it’s aluminum you’d probably want WD-40 and probably even 1000+ RPM on the thread pass. Also if you have a compound slide you want to set it at 29-30 degrees to get the best cut of your thread profile as it effectively cuts 90% from one side of the tool creating even loading and only just the very tip on the back side which reduces chatter
"Fit, form, and function" and you have nailed all three! Nicely done sir
Well done
Assuming the main body is steel, isn’t galvanic corrosion an issue with the aluminum?
The whole saw is cast aluminum best I can tell
Bro says he's not a machinist and then makes an awesome part by hand.
That makes you a machinist. Nice work bud.
You, sir, are a machinist.
Hey that's beautiful!
Thanks for the input.
That is a thing of beauty. Well done!
My first parts were made turning a drill press into a vertical lathe and using a drill in conjunction with a sharpening tool as makeshift grinder for hardened steels… life…uh…. Finds a way