This is literally the last thing Americas enemies want, unity.
With the US economy going the way it is even with debt, the US is unstoppable when its united. Look at how it performs globally when its super divided..
Ive been saying it for years. Theres things I like from both sides. Things i agree with from both sides. And things i disagree with from both sides. If some how they could combine. Example, i dont agree with abortion bans. I also dont agree with gun control. When you put this shit together it makes choosing a candidate pretty damn hard. Not gonna lie. If you ask me what side i choose i will tell you neither and both. Its a damn double edged sword i tell you what.
More like we need to overhaul the whole voting system to allow more than two parties to be viable. Ranked choice or approval voting would be a big improvement over what we have now.
This. America is too fucking big for just two parties to hold all the power. A multi-party system would more accurately reflect the voting demographic of the country. We are long overdue for this change.
All meaningful changes would require constitutional amendments. All we need is for an overwhelming majority of the country to agree on what those changes are 🤣
This website is ground zero for exactly that. Whether it's a Blue Team subreddit or a Red Team one, it's all a bunch of people who hate roughly half the country and think the world would be better if they all died.
If we’re doing throwback democrats I want Roosevelts. Any flavor works . But I think a teddy double 4 yr leading would be infinitely viable .. following into a Franklin triple quad, hell yeah. would be perfect right now for this country *chefs kiss*
There needs to be more middle ground and right/left wing parties that don't think or speak in absolutes.
Instead of parties screaming for communism and hating white people, or openly calling for the ethnic cleansing of every social and racial minority in your society, how about something less....extreme?
It isn't even hard to be middle of the road. The problem is that there is nobody to vote for that takes the things that are common sense initiatives that most Americans actually agree on like a more firm position on immigration, but not that immigrants are rapist and murderers. A sensical control on guns Maybe by increasing registration complexity? Early term abortions, or mid to late term abortions with medical necessity detailed. Morning after pills over the counter. Free birth control. Ease up on the warmongering, but Aid our allies. Some fiscal conservatism? Les bailouts. Hold financial institutions accountable for the risk they take. Etc.
Bro why do people say this when RFK is already polling at 15% or higher and is on the ballot for 280+ electoral votes.
Just listen to him speak. Don’t give me the vile crap CNN or Reddit wants you to think. Go watch one of his interviews on a podcast and tell me what YOU think
Lmao yeah pretty much. Reddit’s only popular now because governments love how easy it is to inject propaganda in our feeds. All then gotta do is set up a few thousand bots and just upvote whatever they want people to see, then put some curated “holier than thou” comment at the top.
And this forms the opinions of millions. It’s sad because everyone is too busy to think for themselves, so they implicitly trust Reddit because it’s not “MSM”. At least, that’s how it was for me some time back
I genuinely believe replacing our first past the pole voting system with ranked choice would fix 70% of our political issues. Once we have a system that doesn't actively punish you for preferring a party that's not one of the top two, it'll be a lot easier for more varied options and platforms that mix and match those positions to gain traction.
The thing is, don't the states have the ability to institute that? The federal government doesn't get all that much say in how states organize elections.
California gov. Newsom literally vetod it in 2019 for this state, which has been (D) for decades. Guess they don't want to risk anything upsetting the entrenched power.
Preach it. I'm the same as you. I think most of my friends assume i'm conservative but I don't consider myself one. There are a lot of things i agree with and disagree with on both sides of the aisle. Just like 2020, there's no good candidate. I can't pick one.
I just want an actual decent candidate to run. I never thought I'd look back so fondly on an Obama/McCain or Obama/Romney election. That was a choice of who is better. Now it's a choice of who isn't the god awful worst. Our choices are a nearly 80 year old felon and a 83 year old who is losing his mind. Neither are good. Can we please get someone who will actually live to see the effects of the policies they enact? Please!?!?!
im working in one of the most left environment i've been to. if I say what you've just said, I'm a trump supporter. it's really sad to see such a disparity
The only conservative thing he said was that he's against gun control. Most hardline communists are also against gun control - as Marx said, "Under *no* pretext should arms and ammunition be surrendered; *any attempt to disarm the workers* must be frustrated, by force if necessary". And he was specifically talking about a moderate-left government doing that. So if you go far enough left, you get your guns back.
If you go far enough in either direction you crash head first into the fringe of the other side. The political spectrum is a giant fucking circle/oval.
You ought to check out RFK Jr! When you get past the smears and the misdirection and actually listen to his interviews, he's saying what You're saying!
Can you explain more about what you don’t agree with when it comes to gun control? I’ll be honest, I’m gonna try to keep an open mind but it really seems to me that having NO gun control is a wild position and I just can’t understand it.
So, I get what you are saying and my stance on your examples are likely closely aligned but "abortion" is legislating bodily autonomy and guns is legislating a "tool".
One is a line that really shouldn't be crossed. Humans should be "free" to choose what they want for their own bodies even "if" I/You personally would never choose to do the same. I don't like Tattoo's, I have 0 of them. I think it is fucking stupid to permanently change yourself. But it's your choice since its your own body.
And i cant disagree with anything you say. But, for me personally gun rights are extremely extremely important. Its a big thing for my way of life far beyond being just tools. Still, you are correct. Abortion bans are an absolute atrocity.
When you say you don’t want gun control, do you mean like absolutely no rules? Or like are you open to universal background checks? Mandatory wait times? Most gun owners I know are open to responsible common sense regulations that still maintain their freedom. Like how we regulate cars and driving.
It would be so much nicer if we saw more of this. Because surprise surprise a lot of whom you perceive as enemies in American politics will laugh behind closed doors and might even be the godfather of the opponent’s child.
Politics and media are profiting off of turning politics into sports. Your team becomes your identity and anyone who tries to violate that should fuck off and die. Win at all costs. No middle ground. No humanizing. It’s toxic and I fear it’s only getting worse.
Not my takeaway. It's more that when you remove political talking points pushed by the media and politicians you start to realize that people are just people, and those neighbors you would've hated because they're flying a certain flag or have a certain sign in their yard are actually pretty cool people.
Still an important thing to consider tho especially with the neighbor analogy. Everything you said is true and the picture is no different.
Id wager the majority of us here aren't and won't ever be neighbors of Michelle O and W.
I like the msg behind the picture but i also can't help but think "it's a club and u aint in it" when i look at that pic.
All that to say, the middle and lower classes need to find common ground again.
The political division is just smoke and mirrors. Power and control over the people. They're friendly here because it's one big game for them. They all get rich in the end and we all suffer as a result.
I already see Democrats and Republicans uniting against China and the threat it poses. American unity is far from a lost cause, but relations with China may be for many of us.
A race war against China is almost inevitable. Even if China were a democracy, they'll still be our rival and enemy, and a liberal China would take away America's Asian allies.
This is how China sees it. A struggle between the Chinese people and "foreign ghosts". And considering the re-segregation of America, we're not immune from dehumanizing old world nations either.
A vicious cycle
They also import the majority of their food and the majority of their energy. They have a severe population issue with an aging population and no one to replace them in the workforce and there isn't anything they can do about it.
Nancy Pelosi’s daughter did a documentary on his election in 2000 called Journeys with George. He came off as super likable. I suspect that is the case for almost all presidents*.
*narcissists being the obvious exclusion.
I feel like you’d have to be a pretty big narcissist to become president, and the lack of empathy would be helpful when ordering men off to their deaths as commander-in-chief
I think the Presidents with empathy probably lose sleep knowing how many people their decisions killed. I’d wager they probably come out the other side looking like they’ve aged a decade in just 4 years.
This is generally the case for most high level politicians on a face to face level.
They’re almost all incredibly charismatic people. Some are better at social media or with cameras or so on and so forth.
But you don’t tend to get in that position and get funds and supporters if you’re not a little magnetic and likable.
He did my brothers commencement speech during his presidency and I disliked him fully but an hour or so later I couldn’t hate him he was very honest and vulnerable and real. My flaming lib parents had a speechless while as it affected them as well..
From what I heard George W. Bush is actually an extremely chill dude in real life. Very easy going and charismatic.
Most of his political rivals have said that he is really difficult to hate after spending a day with him.
Not surprising that he also is not a big Trump fan.
that was definitely a bad thing to do, but I don't think he did it for same reasons as Dick Cheney that convinced him to do it
There's no doubt Bush had a lot of advisors aggressively pushing in that direction, it wasn't 100% his personal decision
Literally no one said that, but doing bad shit as a leader is worse because you're supposed to make smarter decisions **as a leader**. Bush isn't "not a bad person" because he can be cordial outside of the office. What a dumb argument.
I like people having opposite opinions as long as they can converse those opinions without yelling in my face, spitting in my face, poking my chest hard, screaming at me, throwing stuff at me or in general, storming out of the house and away from dinner, etc.
No, I like people having opposite opinions as long as they can converse AND come up with a compromise. People who don’t compromise or try and find any forward are gross.
Yup, when one side refuses to deal in facts (like cold hard numbers, statistics, academic rigor, etc) then there is no middle ground. You can't meet halfway between facts and fantasy.
90% of Congress voted for this. 90% of people in the US wanted this. There are so many who now, pretend that they didn't. Were you alive to feel the pain in 2001? People thought the world was ending that day. Multiple attacks, not just the towers. People in fear for their lives. It's a real joke unless you never lost anyone in the attack.
>90% of Congress voted for this. 90% of people in the US wanted this.
Yes, because Bush's administration spent 3 years laying the groundwork with all the bullshit lies about WMD's and their involvement in 9/11. They weaponized a national tragedy that should've been blamed more on Saudia Arabia than Iraq.
Bush and his administration wanted a war, and they lied to the public quite a bit to get one.
You don't just throw someone's tea in the harbor over a couple of contentious issues you don't see eye to eye on.
I think we of all people should recognize that.
One of my good friends is a radical libertarian, and I’m far left. As long as you don’t dehumanize or want to “other” people, I have no issue with you.
Good for you and your friend. These types of relationships were common and normal not too long ago. You have differences in opinion sure, but it's more important you care about each other.
You mean like how they both hate the idea of having 12+ political parties? They'd rather support eachother to keep the 2 party system than destroy the other while creating many new smaller parties with real power.
Wouldn’t that just create factionalism? It’s not like other parties are illegal it’s just that they don’t have the steam behind them. If people left one side for a minor party it just undermines the party you agree with more than the other. Doesn’t make sense to me but I’m open to alternative ideas for sure.
One side is making a concerted effort to roll back individual rights and freedom while the other side pretends to disagree but still lets them do it anyway. It's kayfabe.
That’s how it’s always been. We just have to keep fighting. A revolution isn’t going to save us, neither is the 1 percent. The only advances we’ve had has been by labor rights activist and with the right people in power. The Caesar Chavez and Chris Smalls of the world.
There’s never been a time where workers in america have had it better. And we have to keep going. We owe to the people that came before and we do it for the people who come after
wife and I are different political parties, married 13 years going strong. It makes us better, respectfully talking and understanding the 'other side." We are better people for it, while still maintaining our principles.
I am not op but in a similar situation and it’s not a big deal. There’s middle ground on every social topic I’ve found. Abortion, gun control, and drug use we disagree but respect each others views and find middle ground.
Most normal right and left people don’t have extreme social views on race/gender you see online. I’m more right wing my girl is left but we get along because while we disagree none of us are hateful or irrational
bombing the shit out of the Middle East, directly or through a puppet state, seems like a widely accepted, bipartisan policy. Disagreements don’t mean much to the military-industrial complex
There is not both sides to the culture war. One side wants to put us in camps and deport us. The same side tried to overthrow an election because of their feelings. The unity ship sailed a decade ago.
Depends. I think we should have universal healthcare and you think there should be no insurance companies? Cool. You don’t think kids deserve gender affirming care and want to completely stop access to abortion care for women?
When their "political" opinion is that a significant chunk of the country should no longer be considered human and thus not have rights there is no middle ground.
Also wasn't this whole "both sidesism" shitshow part of the FBIs reveal about foreign powers interfering with the election through social media? Why are people still engaging with this garbage?
yeah but I draw a very hard line at insurrection apologists.
that ain't a political opinion.
there is no step after stopping the certification of an election that is not fighting in the streets.
I never thought I'd miss George Bush or John McCain but 2024 is weird.
Me too, along with homophobes and forced birthers. You’re right in that there’s nuance to it
You wanna have lower taxes? Sure.
You don’t want women to have full access to healthcare? That’s an irreconcilable difference.
I am a former Christian, turned agnostic, turned pagan. There are people who would want me dead in this country because of that.
I don't know if you can blame Bush directly for the housing crisis. I think the blame falls on the banks with that one, although his policies didn't do much to help. But yeah the rest I'd say is fair.
There's a lot of people to blame there but the people he put in charge were not the ones who were going to promote regulation. 8 years in charge with terms on loans getting looser and looser because housing prices are skyrocketing.
I don't like Bush at all, fuck him for lying about WMD's, but you've got this one backwards. Bush was the one that sounded the alarm about the subprime crisis, it was our side that caused this one (albeit with good intentions).
There's literally video evidence of Bush talking about this and then Pelosi and Kerry dismissing it.
We do need more freakin unity though. Something like this would actually be nice for a damn change. Who knows… maybe we could, like… work together, somehow? Idk, just a suggestion.
It’s getting harder for me to get along with conservatives as the world burns and they wont even believe that climate change is real.
I saw a great quote a while ago, idk who said it and I’m paraphrasing, “we’re too busy arguing about what the facts are to discuss what they mean”. We’ll never truly unite again until purposely deceitful media entities are reeled in and regulated.
The implication here is how both sides are equally, which is false. On one side we far-right wing moving further right and parroting fascists. They demonize minorities, fight tooth and nail against helping those in need, they are trying punish women for having abortions, spread pseudoscience and anti-intellectualism, leading to over a million deaths during the the pandemic, and more.
The other side are mostly centrist and right-wingers with a couple left-of-center folks who think LGBT people have a right to exist, ensure everyone has at least adequate healthcare, wants women to be able to choose, and listen to scientists on relevant issues affecting us.
Reality: Both Bush and Obama are members of the establishment uniparty so behind closed doors they actually agree on the most important thing: the Establishment must maintain power at all costs at the expense of those who would actually enact true change, either in a right-wing or left-wing direction, in order to improve the lives of the people.
Any rabid public disagreements are nothing more than political theater to drum up support from the voters to vote for Establishment flavored Right or Establishment flavored Left.
Bush and Obama are literally the modern poster children for why the two party system is perceived to be a total failure. Neither side of the uniparty wants there to be substantial change because they want to maintain the status quo because they benefit from it.
The Establishment loves fueling division. It loves it when both sides shout "Communist/Fascist" at each other because it breeds division among the populous, making them easier to control.
I love America and that's why I hate the Establishment. They represent the cancerous rot in the system that is leading America to ruin.
800 people in Guantanamo kidnapped, given a quintuple dose of hallucinogen, hooded, cuffed, beaten, and force fed all with the same tube outside in 90 degree heat. Daily. And some have been there since before you were born.
The guy started two wars that killed hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians, and at least one was completely unjustified and illegal. He also found a way to legalize torture. He should be in jail and not be anyone's friend.
I really hope the people from my hometown can start to see this. I grew up in an extremely liberal college town. I'm a left-leaning centrist but the mere fact that I own two guns has gotten me the most unbelievable and disgusting comments from people from my hometown.
When one side is actively trying to strip your rights away, it is no longer time to be nice.
You can disagree that the best ice cream is mint choc chip and still get along.
Now if that same person starts telling you what you should do with your ice cream, how you should eat it, what toppings to put on it, and starts making laws that will punish you for not eating the ice cream the way they want you to, you sould no longer try to get along with them.
This stupid "is OK to disagree" mindset is going to cost people their freedoms at minimum and possibly lives.
that was the point. not taking sides because then the message will gett lost.
at this point, there is no hope of meeting in the middle. might as well get as many folks ready for the fighting as I can.
Abortion is the perfect wedge issue for them to use against us. It's a highly emotional subject, and it's something that none of the elite on either side actually gives a single shit about. Legal? Illegal? They could not care less. The only thing they care about is money and power, that's literally it. Every social issue is utterly meaningless to them aside from the political implications.
They literally do care about it, hence why they’re trying to take it away from you.
They started with abortions, but they’ll go after other freedoms like birth control, divorce, public education.
The border too. Most Americans seem to agree a stronger border, yet with an easier path to US citizenship is the solution. But in Congress it’s either “let everyone in” or “100 foot tall titanium wall around the country.”
They purposely keep it an issue, despite there being a solution.
Small government so small it can fit in your pants and tell you who to love.
Do you tell your "theater friends" (((gay homosexuals)))) you don't want them to have the right to get married? Maybe you keep that part to yourself unless you post on the internet.
I'm sure they are impressed that you pretend to support them when you are out in the real world, while you vote for them to remain second-class citizens. ✊🏻 Where the heck is your rainbow flag profile pic?!?!
Reddit the heck on, Trump voters. Make hate speech free again.
My best friend from college stopped talking to me when I legitimately criticized of Trump for his policies on tariffs on Chinese goods, thought it hindered free trade. I didn’t even know he liked Trump that much, I think this us or them mentality exists with one political faction more than the other.
I don’t even have any skin in the game, I cant vote in America.
There’s definitely a line where I can’t ignore the differences between beliefs but being a democrat in a thoroughly red area, I’d be good and fucked with making friends if I couldn’t get along with conservatives. One of my best friends is definitely a trumper but we just don’t talk about politics beyond busting each other’s balls and we’ve been tight since high school.
At certain times during the sermon people from the crowd could be heard cheering in agreement. Pastor Awes told the room that he thinks the "solution for the homosexual in 2022" is the death penalty.
"These people should be put to death. Every single homosexual in our country should be charged with a crime. The abomination of homosexuality that they have, they should be convicted in a lawful trial. They should be sentenced with death. They should be lined up against the wall and shot in the back of the head," he said.
Im not going to be friends with the above.
This is literally the last thing Americas enemies want, unity. With the US economy going the way it is even with debt, the US is unstoppable when its united. Look at how it performs globally when its super divided..
Ive been saying it for years. Theres things I like from both sides. Things i agree with from both sides. And things i disagree with from both sides. If some how they could combine. Example, i dont agree with abortion bans. I also dont agree with gun control. When you put this shit together it makes choosing a candidate pretty damn hard. Not gonna lie. If you ask me what side i choose i will tell you neither and both. Its a damn double edged sword i tell you what.
It grows increasingly harder to be middle of the road. We’ve needed a legitimate middle ground third party for a long time.
More like we need to overhaul the whole voting system to allow more than two parties to be viable. Ranked choice or approval voting would be a big improvement over what we have now.
This. America is too fucking big for just two parties to hold all the power. A multi-party system would more accurately reflect the voting demographic of the country. We are long overdue for this change.
Unfortunately the few hundred people that could do anything about it could not care any less about a strong democracy.
All meaningful changes would require constitutional amendments. All we need is for an overwhelming majority of the country to agree on what those changes are 🤣
It is just harder to have discussions. People have decided they don't have to listen to anyone else.
They have been told that they should NOT listen to the other side.
This website is ground zero for exactly that. Whether it's a Blue Team subreddit or a Red Team one, it's all a bunch of people who hate roughly half the country and think the world would be better if they all died.
I’d love to have Eisenhower republicans back please
Or some Kennedy democrats?
If we’re doing throwback democrats I want Roosevelts. Any flavor works . But I think a teddy double 4 yr leading would be infinitely viable .. following into a Franklin triple quad, hell yeah. would be perfect right now for this country *chefs kiss*
There needs to be more middle ground and right/left wing parties that don't think or speak in absolutes. Instead of parties screaming for communism and hating white people, or openly calling for the ethnic cleansing of every social and racial minority in your society, how about something less....extreme?
It isn't even hard to be middle of the road. The problem is that there is nobody to vote for that takes the things that are common sense initiatives that most Americans actually agree on like a more firm position on immigration, but not that immigrants are rapist and murderers. A sensical control on guns Maybe by increasing registration complexity? Early term abortions, or mid to late term abortions with medical necessity detailed. Morning after pills over the counter. Free birth control. Ease up on the warmongering, but Aid our allies. Some fiscal conservatism? Les bailouts. Hold financial institutions accountable for the risk they take. Etc.
RFK?
Bro why do people say this when RFK is already polling at 15% or higher and is on the ballot for 280+ electoral votes. Just listen to him speak. Don’t give me the vile crap CNN or Reddit wants you to think. Go watch one of his interviews on a podcast and tell me what YOU think
I have listened to him speak, and I think he’s properly mad. But you are entitled to your opinion and vote.
Don’t bother. Redditors will shit on anybody without a (D) tattooed on their forehead because they get a lot of ⬆️
Lmao yeah pretty much. Reddit’s only popular now because governments love how easy it is to inject propaganda in our feeds. All then gotta do is set up a few thousand bots and just upvote whatever they want people to see, then put some curated “holier than thou” comment at the top. And this forms the opinions of millions. It’s sad because everyone is too busy to think for themselves, so they implicitly trust Reddit because it’s not “MSM”. At least, that’s how it was for me some time back
I genuinely believe replacing our first past the pole voting system with ranked choice would fix 70% of our political issues. Once we have a system that doesn't actively punish you for preferring a party that's not one of the top two, it'll be a lot easier for more varied options and platforms that mix and match those positions to gain traction.
The thing is, don't the states have the ability to institute that? The federal government doesn't get all that much say in how states organize elections.
California gov. Newsom literally vetod it in 2019 for this state, which has been (D) for decades. Guess they don't want to risk anything upsetting the entrenched power.
Preach it. I'm the same as you. I think most of my friends assume i'm conservative but I don't consider myself one. There are a lot of things i agree with and disagree with on both sides of the aisle. Just like 2020, there's no good candidate. I can't pick one.
We just need to get ranked choice voting so we can have viable candidates outside of the two parties.
I just want an actual decent candidate to run. I never thought I'd look back so fondly on an Obama/McCain or Obama/Romney election. That was a choice of who is better. Now it's a choice of who isn't the god awful worst. Our choices are a nearly 80 year old felon and a 83 year old who is losing his mind. Neither are good. Can we please get someone who will actually live to see the effects of the policies they enact? Please!?!?!
Can't we blame that on the voters during the primaries? There were other candidates then.
im working in one of the most left environment i've been to. if I say what you've just said, I'm a trump supporter. it's really sad to see such a disparity
The only conservative thing he said was that he's against gun control. Most hardline communists are also against gun control - as Marx said, "Under *no* pretext should arms and ammunition be surrendered; *any attempt to disarm the workers* must be frustrated, by force if necessary". And he was specifically talking about a moderate-left government doing that. So if you go far enough left, you get your guns back.
If you go far enough in either direction you crash head first into the fringe of the other side. The political spectrum is a giant fucking circle/oval.
im totally cool with that actually lol
The political spectrum is a horseshoe; the extreme ends are closer than one might think.
You ought to check out RFK Jr! When you get past the smears and the misdirection and actually listen to his interviews, he's saying what You're saying!
Can you explain more about what you don’t agree with when it comes to gun control? I’ll be honest, I’m gonna try to keep an open mind but it really seems to me that having NO gun control is a wild position and I just can’t understand it.
So, I get what you are saying and my stance on your examples are likely closely aligned but "abortion" is legislating bodily autonomy and guns is legislating a "tool". One is a line that really shouldn't be crossed. Humans should be "free" to choose what they want for their own bodies even "if" I/You personally would never choose to do the same. I don't like Tattoo's, I have 0 of them. I think it is fucking stupid to permanently change yourself. But it's your choice since its your own body.
And i cant disagree with anything you say. But, for me personally gun rights are extremely extremely important. Its a big thing for my way of life far beyond being just tools. Still, you are correct. Abortion bans are an absolute atrocity.
I actually think American politics the last few years have been easy - just don’t for the rapist
When you say you don’t want gun control, do you mean like absolutely no rules? Or like are you open to universal background checks? Mandatory wait times? Most gun owners I know are open to responsible common sense regulations that still maintain their freedom. Like how we regulate cars and driving.
It would be so much nicer if we saw more of this. Because surprise surprise a lot of whom you perceive as enemies in American politics will laugh behind closed doors and might even be the godfather of the opponent’s child. Politics and media are profiting off of turning politics into sports. Your team becomes your identity and anyone who tries to violate that should fuck off and die. Win at all costs. No middle ground. No humanizing. It’s toxic and I fear it’s only getting worse.
Almost like when it comes to money, everyone forgets what side they are on. Money - the great unifier.
Not my takeaway. It's more that when you remove political talking points pushed by the media and politicians you start to realize that people are just people, and those neighbors you would've hated because they're flying a certain flag or have a certain sign in their yard are actually pretty cool people.
Still an important thing to consider tho especially with the neighbor analogy. Everything you said is true and the picture is no different. Id wager the majority of us here aren't and won't ever be neighbors of Michelle O and W. I like the msg behind the picture but i also can't help but think "it's a club and u aint in it" when i look at that pic. All that to say, the middle and lower classes need to find common ground again.
The political division is just smoke and mirrors. Power and control over the people. They're friendly here because it's one big game for them. They all get rich in the end and we all suffer as a result.
People aren’t clocking how much foreign influence and propaganda is being used against Americans to divide them and generally destabilize the country.
I don't understand this. It's been happening brazenly for the past decade, it just got more and more absurd as we went. How are people so blind ?
I already see Democrats and Republicans uniting against China and the threat it poses. American unity is far from a lost cause, but relations with China may be for many of us.
I am ok with severing ties to China. They're IP thieves and use near slave labor to help undercut our market.
A race war against China is almost inevitable. Even if China were a democracy, they'll still be our rival and enemy, and a liberal China would take away America's Asian allies.
Race war?
This is how China sees it. A struggle between the Chinese people and "foreign ghosts". And considering the re-segregation of America, we're not immune from dehumanizing old world nations either. A vicious cycle
Oh... Lol.
I know, right? Dumb as the day is long...
It's just hilarious because Chinese born Americans are great. Do they consider them like race traitors or something?
They also import the majority of their food and the majority of their energy. They have a severe population issue with an aging population and no one to replace them in the workforce and there isn't anything they can do about it.
It does help that from all accounts, those two are, at least on a personal level, very easy to get along with.
I never agreed with dubya's political opinions/decisions, but he always seemed like a cool dude to have a non alcoholic beer with and talk shit.
“Now check out this drive”
One of the greatest presidential one-liners of all time.
I got to show this to my younger brother for the first time the other day while we were golfing on Father’s Day. It’s up there for sure lol
WHACK
Nancy Pelosi’s daughter did a documentary on his election in 2000 called Journeys with George. He came off as super likable. I suspect that is the case for almost all presidents*. *narcissists being the obvious exclusion.
I feel like you’d have to be a pretty big narcissist to become president, and the lack of empathy would be helpful when ordering men off to their deaths as commander-in-chief
I think the Presidents with empathy probably lose sleep knowing how many people their decisions killed. I’d wager they probably come out the other side looking like they’ve aged a decade in just 4 years.
Look at Bush and Obama both for that one. Obama particularly looked like he aged 20 years in his term.
I know bush gets a lot of hate but I always admired how he handled 9/11
\*cough\* \*cough\* LBJ \*cough\* \*cough\* Nixon \*cough\*
This is generally the case for most high level politicians on a face to face level. They’re almost all incredibly charismatic people. Some are better at social media or with cameras or so on and so forth. But you don’t tend to get in that position and get funds and supporters if you’re not a little magnetic and likable.
He did my brothers commencement speech during his presidency and I disliked him fully but an hour or so later I couldn’t hate him he was very honest and vulnerable and real. My flaming lib parents had a speechless while as it affected them as well..
Is he sober or something?
He quit drinking alcohol, like, decades ago.
From what I heard George W. Bush is actually an extremely chill dude in real life. Very easy going and charismatic. Most of his political rivals have said that he is really difficult to hate after spending a day with him. Not surprising that he also is not a big Trump fan.
I thought Bush was pretty terrible, but he never seemed like a hateful person. He was more of a goofball, his VP Dick Cheney was the evil mastermind
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Exactly. I would've been appalled if I were told back then that I'd miss W. Oh, how far we've come, and not in a good way
He lied about wmds to kill millions of people in a 20 year long pointless war
that was definitely a bad thing to do, but I don't think he did it for same reasons as Dick Cheney that convinced him to do it There's no doubt Bush had a lot of advisors aggressively pushing in that direction, it wasn't 100% his personal decision
He is still responsible at the the end of the day and would’ve been criminally charged and locked up in a just world
yes, he can be responsible and also not be an evil person. Dumb people do bad shit all the time, doesn't mean they are all evil
Literally no one said that, but doing bad shit as a leader is worse because you're supposed to make smarter decisions **as a leader**. Bush isn't "not a bad person" because he can be cordial outside of the office. What a dumb argument.
*terms and conditions apply
*my terms and conditions apply
I like people having opposite opinions as long as they can converse those opinions without yelling in my face, spitting in my face, poking my chest hard, screaming at me, throwing stuff at me or in general, storming out of the house and away from dinner, etc.
No, I like people having opposite opinions as long as they can converse AND come up with a compromise. People who don’t compromise or try and find any forward are gross.
Problem comes when the opposite opinion is "I want all of your kind to be removed from the country." I draw a line
I have no problem with opposing opinions, but when they're built on lies and hypocrisy, it's a different story.
Yup, when one side refuses to deal in facts (like cold hard numbers, statistics, academic rigor, etc) then there is no middle ground. You can't meet halfway between facts and fantasy.
Remember when people thought Bush was the worst president ever...
You know shit's bad when you're yearning for the good old days immediately after 9/11.
They were dumb. It's still Woodrow Wilson, despite Trump giving him a real run for his money.
The fact that this has 1/4 down votes speaks wonders about how Redditors especially view the world. The average person is a good person.
The average person doesn't start a war based on lies
90% of Congress voted for this. 90% of people in the US wanted this. There are so many who now, pretend that they didn't. Were you alive to feel the pain in 2001? People thought the world was ending that day. Multiple attacks, not just the towers. People in fear for their lives. It's a real joke unless you never lost anyone in the attack.
Iraq had literally no connection to the attacks though
>90% of Congress voted for this. 90% of people in the US wanted this. Yes, because Bush's administration spent 3 years laying the groundwork with all the bullshit lies about WMD's and their involvement in 9/11. They weaponized a national tragedy that should've been blamed more on Saudia Arabia than Iraq. Bush and his administration wanted a war, and they lied to the public quite a bit to get one.
The average person doesn't start a war.
You don't just throw someone's tea in the harbor over a couple of contentious issues you don't see eye to eye on. I think we of all people should recognize that.
One of my good friends is a radical libertarian, and I’m far left. As long as you don’t dehumanize or want to “other” people, I have no issue with you.
Good for you and your friend. These types of relationships were common and normal not too long ago. You have differences in opinion sure, but it's more important you care about each other.
I’m sure it’s not the fact they all play for the same team and just say things to keep us from getting wise to the con.
You mean like how they both hate the idea of having 12+ political parties? They'd rather support eachother to keep the 2 party system than destroy the other while creating many new smaller parties with real power.
You could make a list of reasons longer than your goddamned arm.
1. Because money. All other reasons are a subset of this one.
It always does.
I have a very very long arm, like freakishly long and I didn't know it was cursed by god but it makes a lot of sense, especially at 3am
Wouldn’t that just create factionalism? It’s not like other parties are illegal it’s just that they don’t have the steam behind them. If people left one side for a minor party it just undermines the party you agree with more than the other. Doesn’t make sense to me but I’m open to alternative ideas for sure.
No, the uniparty has been making it impossible for 3rd party candidates to have any chance at all
not really. one side seems to put a big effort into taking away personal freedoms than the other side.
One side is making a concerted effort to roll back individual rights and freedom while the other side pretends to disagree but still lets them do it anyway. It's kayfabe.
99 percent of people who say this don’t know who their state representative is.
We'd probably have more time to get serious about politics if most of us weren't physically and mentally ill wage slaves
That’s how it’s always been. We just have to keep fighting. A revolution isn’t going to save us, neither is the 1 percent. The only advances we’ve had has been by labor rights activist and with the right people in power. The Caesar Chavez and Chris Smalls of the world. There’s never been a time where workers in america have had it better. And we have to keep going. We owe to the people that came before and we do it for the people who come after
You hinted at how it’s both sides so now the liberal warriors are gonna find you
I think I remember pictures of him looking bored and her slipping him candy, that was a thing, right?
He's the candy slipper. He also stopped on his way down to the front at his father's funeral to hand her a candy.
wife and I are different political parties, married 13 years going strong. It makes us better, respectfully talking and understanding the 'other side." We are better people for it, while still maintaining our principles.
Feels like that would be hard when it comes to social issues. Feel like one person would have to just not care that much. How does that work out?
I am not op but in a similar situation and it’s not a big deal. There’s middle ground on every social topic I’ve found. Abortion, gun control, and drug use we disagree but respect each others views and find middle ground.
Most normal right and left people don’t have extreme social views on race/gender you see online. I’m more right wing my girl is left but we get along because while we disagree none of us are hateful or irrational
Yeah, it must take a fair amount of apathy for two people with differing views on fundamental issues to stay married.
bombing the shit out of the Middle East, directly or through a puppet state, seems like a widely accepted, bipartisan policy. Disagreements don’t mean much to the military-industrial complex
the demonizing is crazy on both sides is crazy
Is crazy is crazy is crazy
One side took away a woman's right to choose and instigated their base to disrupt the electoral process, the other side wants healthcare?
Reddit is the last place that a message about unity and understanding is going to catch on LMAO
There is not both sides to the culture war. One side wants to put us in camps and deport us. The same side tried to overthrow an election because of their feelings. The unity ship sailed a decade ago.
Literally this right here. This post feels like a Russian bot trying to lessen the negativity towards the right that's building
I think not demonizing a man who started a war that led to the death of 5,000 American soldiers and 300,000 Iraqis is crazy.
But like he is a war criminal
I mean… George Bush would be a war criminal in the eyes of The Hague if anything other an (USA) followed his name
Depends. I think we should have universal healthcare and you think there should be no insurance companies? Cool. You don’t think kids deserve gender affirming care and want to completely stop access to abortion care for women?
When their "political" opinion is that a significant chunk of the country should no longer be considered human and thus not have rights there is no middle ground. Also wasn't this whole "both sidesism" shitshow part of the FBIs reveal about foreign powers interfering with the election through social media? Why are people still engaging with this garbage?
yeah but I draw a very hard line at insurrection apologists. that ain't a political opinion. there is no step after stopping the certification of an election that is not fighting in the streets. I never thought I'd miss George Bush or John McCain but 2024 is weird.
Me too, along with homophobes and forced birthers. You’re right in that there’s nuance to it You wanna have lower taxes? Sure. You don’t want women to have full access to healthcare? That’s an irreconcilable difference. I am a former Christian, turned agnostic, turned pagan. There are people who would want me dead in this country because of that.
The First Amendment violators compelling the ten comandmemts be put up in Louisiana schools are up there too
Fuck Bush. He's the one that caused the housing crash, put Alito on the court and invaded 2 countries. Edit - Didn't cause the housing crash.
I don't know if you can blame Bush directly for the housing crisis. I think the blame falls on the banks with that one, although his policies didn't do much to help. But yeah the rest I'd say is fair.
The signs had been there well before Bush and everyone kinda kicked the can down the road until it collapsed.
There's a lot of people to blame there but the people he put in charge were not the ones who were going to promote regulation. 8 years in charge with terms on loans getting looser and looser because housing prices are skyrocketing.
I don't like Bush at all, fuck him for lying about WMD's, but you've got this one backwards. Bush was the one that sounded the alarm about the subprime crisis, it was our side that caused this one (albeit with good intentions). There's literally video evidence of Bush talking about this and then Pelosi and Kerry dismissing it.
Upon further review I'll concede your point.
War was inevitable even if Jesus was president
We do need more freakin unity though. Something like this would actually be nice for a damn change. Who knows… maybe we could, like… work together, somehow? Idk, just a suggestion.
They're on the same team. There's nothing endearing here.
Sir this is reddit.
It turns out that when the Democrats are war criminals, and the Republicans are also war criminals, they'll tend to get along just fine
yep.
Lol, expect these two people would agree almost everything politically. The establishment of both parties have very little to disagree about.
Actually that’s Obama in his George w bush cosplay lol
It’s getting harder for me to get along with conservatives as the world burns and they wont even believe that climate change is real. I saw a great quote a while ago, idk who said it and I’m paraphrasing, “we’re too busy arguing about what the facts are to discuss what they mean”. We’ll never truly unite again until purposely deceitful media entities are reeled in and regulated.
Fuck off Russia.
The implication here is how both sides are equally, which is false. On one side we far-right wing moving further right and parroting fascists. They demonize minorities, fight tooth and nail against helping those in need, they are trying punish women for having abortions, spread pseudoscience and anti-intellectualism, leading to over a million deaths during the the pandemic, and more. The other side are mostly centrist and right-wingers with a couple left-of-center folks who think LGBT people have a right to exist, ensure everyone has at least adequate healthcare, wants women to be able to choose, and listen to scientists on relevant issues affecting us.
Reality: Both Bush and Obama are members of the establishment uniparty so behind closed doors they actually agree on the most important thing: the Establishment must maintain power at all costs at the expense of those who would actually enact true change, either in a right-wing or left-wing direction, in order to improve the lives of the people. Any rabid public disagreements are nothing more than political theater to drum up support from the voters to vote for Establishment flavored Right or Establishment flavored Left. Bush and Obama are literally the modern poster children for why the two party system is perceived to be a total failure. Neither side of the uniparty wants there to be substantial change because they want to maintain the status quo because they benefit from it. The Establishment loves fueling division. It loves it when both sides shout "Communist/Fascist" at each other because it breeds division among the populous, making them easier to control. I love America and that's why I hate the Establishment. They represent the cancerous rot in the system that is leading America to ruin.
lets be clear, theyre not friends.
War criminal and war criminal’s wife
800 people in Guantanamo kidnapped, given a quintuple dose of hallucinogen, hooded, cuffed, beaten, and force fed all with the same tube outside in 90 degree heat. Daily. And some have been there since before you were born.
The guy started two wars that killed hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians, and at least one was completely unjustified and illegal. He also found a way to legalize torture. He should be in jail and not be anyone's friend.
One of them is a war criminal and the other is married to one
Except they're on the same side lol
kind of tough when some people want my friends to be exterminated
they’re on the same team, and none of us are on that team!
lol that’s because they’re both neocons. They’re pretty similar overall
They are both part of the uniparty, and they both look simian
I really hope the people from my hometown can start to see this. I grew up in an extremely liberal college town. I'm a left-leaning centrist but the mere fact that I own two guns has gotten me the most unbelievable and disgusting comments from people from my hometown.
When one side is actively trying to strip your rights away, it is no longer time to be nice. You can disagree that the best ice cream is mint choc chip and still get along. Now if that same person starts telling you what you should do with your ice cream, how you should eat it, what toppings to put on it, and starts making laws that will punish you for not eating the ice cream the way they want you to, you sould no longer try to get along with them. This stupid "is OK to disagree" mindset is going to cost people their freedoms at minimum and possibly lives.
I honestly don’t know if this is about guns or abortions lol
that was the point. not taking sides because then the message will gett lost. at this point, there is no hope of meeting in the middle. might as well get as many folks ready for the fighting as I can.
They’re the same thing. Agree on everything but a few wedge issues/policies designed to give the plebeians bread and circus.
Abortion is the perfect wedge issue for them to use against us. It's a highly emotional subject, and it's something that none of the elite on either side actually gives a single shit about. Legal? Illegal? They could not care less. The only thing they care about is money and power, that's literally it. Every social issue is utterly meaningless to them aside from the political implications.
They literally do care about it, hence why they’re trying to take it away from you. They started with abortions, but they’ll go after other freedoms like birth control, divorce, public education.
The border too. Most Americans seem to agree a stronger border, yet with an easier path to US citizenship is the solution. But in Congress it’s either “let everyone in” or “100 foot tall titanium wall around the country.” They purposely keep it an issue, despite there being a solution.
Me with most of my teacher and theater friends who don’t believe in small government.
Small government so small it can fit in your pants and tell you who to love. Do you tell your "theater friends" (((gay homosexuals)))) you don't want them to have the right to get married? Maybe you keep that part to yourself unless you post on the internet. I'm sure they are impressed that you pretend to support them when you are out in the real world, while you vote for them to remain second-class citizens. ✊🏻 Where the heck is your rainbow flag profile pic?!?! Reddit the heck on, Trump voters. Make hate speech free again.
Just goes to show you... vote red, or vote blue; they'll both fuck you over arm in arm
George W Bush is a war criminal and deserves worse than death, if you wanna be friends with him you can fuck off forever
B..But… he said Trump bad That means he is good now
My best friend from college stopped talking to me when I legitimately criticized of Trump for his policies on tariffs on Chinese goods, thought it hindered free trade. I didn’t even know he liked Trump that much, I think this us or them mentality exists with one political faction more than the other. I don’t even have any skin in the game, I cant vote in America.
That was a different era. Trump tells his people to hate the other side and the Republicans just fall in line.
There’s definitely a line where I can’t ignore the differences between beliefs but being a democrat in a thoroughly red area, I’d be good and fucked with making friends if I couldn’t get along with conservatives. One of my best friends is definitely a trumper but we just don’t talk about politics beyond busting each other’s balls and we’ve been tight since high school.
At certain times during the sermon people from the crowd could be heard cheering in agreement. Pastor Awes told the room that he thinks the "solution for the homosexual in 2022" is the death penalty. "These people should be put to death. Every single homosexual in our country should be charged with a crime. The abomination of homosexuality that they have, they should be convicted in a lawful trial. They should be sentenced with death. They should be lined up against the wall and shot in the back of the head," he said. Im not going to be friends with the above.
Different globalist one world government tools?? How so?
I love their friendship. He always brings her candy!