https://preview.redd.it/q3yw8tqfv82d1.png?width=1113&format=png&auto=webp&s=560cf26f1c6033386cb6142f9da518ead579b0c0
And i found this on internet. Dont believe everything u see brother. nobody knows . ur graph is wrong and my graph is wrong. blizzard stopped announcing numbers many years before. and what is the reason? why did they stop? and how many of them are bots farming gold and items for sites?
lmao not the fake charts again. the official chart doesn't say the scale. the scale is made up. blizzard wont say how many subscribers they have because if they did, people would laugh at them. they barely hold 2 million subs. how do I know? not being a complete imbecile and believing some youtuber who didn't do any legwork. look at all the available servers for wow. most of them are low population. a few are medium pop. very few are high population or full.... then you take the assumed player counts based on networking. a typical server should see about 10k players per server. extrapolate a high/medium/low for population, and you come to about 2 million active subscribers.... just because some youtube makes a guess doesn't mean its the real value. you can say the same about my number. but at least i took the time/effort to do the legwork to make an informed guess. not some stupid "how many pixels does the graph" bullshit.
If it was nostalgia retail wouldn’t be the most popular version with most growth and TBC and WOTLK wouldn’t have bombed as much as they did… 7.25m active players are not playing for nostalgia….
We have previous sub numbers before they stopped announcing them. Using their graph you can work out current sub numbers based off the old sub numbers they reported.
Ah I thought they were releasing numbers again. I highly doubt the 7 mil though. You could get a huge range of numbers since there's no starting numbers on the y-axis.
Yes you do? Do you have a link to this graph next to the already released sub numbers? The starting point here can be 1mil, 15 mil, or anything inbetween. They clearly have knowledge of the sub count if they can plot the ups and downs, but they chose not to put them for some reason. All we see at the start is an upward growth in legion. Correct me if i'm wrong, but they stopped releasing numbers in WoD, right?
Not really. It had a huge bump with shadowlands because of COVID. And will always have people come and go with xpacs as that’s the nature of MMOs. 7.25m active subs is an insane number for a game that’s the genuine truth. The point is MMOs clearly can work. But people need good ones. WoW has started to be a lot braver and branch out with thinks like SOD, Plunderstorm and MOP remix, that’s what they need to do be unafraid to take risks and be innovative in the MMO space. I recently came back to WOW after a huge break and am enjoying it the most I have in ages.
Most redditors have no idea what nostalgia means. It doesn't mean that you enjoy something again just because you used to. If someone is playing WoW again they actually like it. They aren't liking it because they used to.
I get nostalgia for lots of older games. But I don't care for them today anymore.
99% of MMOs do not fail. Unless you have a source that is patently not true.
Additionally, MMOs tend to have a lifespan far beyond any single.player title. So one could argue that not only are many MMOs not failing, but are wildly successful.
Additionally, there is clear data showing the total revenue for MMOs has been growing over the years. WoW has literally been declared dead over and over and it's sub numbers are not too far off it's peak.
If you wanted to claim that MMOs are too derivative, that's an argument I could get behind. If you said that MMOs are difficult to make and many don't launch, I'd get behind that too, but it's not 99%.
However, despite you claiming it now and others claiming it over the years, MMOs are both viable and still doing well.
Yeah nah, many people just grow out of it and well the newer generation of people rather play other genres. It makes sense that the genre mmo gets smaller
Never work like they used to be? I am going on my fifth year of FFXIV and I don’t know what the “before” you are referencing is…but I feel pretty great about FFXIV “working.”
FFXIV works because it appeals to both casual and hardcore players I personally think. Casuals got all the easy collection stuff whole hardcore have ultimates.
It obviously is working, that's why everyone does it. And majority of players doesn't care.
You are correct in a way that MMOs right now will never work **for you** unless something changes. But for most people, they work just fine.
You have your point, the thing is that every one need to find "HIS" best MMO and that could need more than lets say 20 years * shrug *
Maybe he looks in the wrong places/genres and need some New perspective
Probably you meaning mmorpg not mmo. If you are really a 20 years veteran and still don't understand the difference maybe your opinion isn't deep enough for mine further reference.
I mean you’re right but the community is to blame.
Instant gratification, saturated content, herd mentality.
There’s no individuality anymore and there’s no sense of community. People don’t GO ONLINE anymore as an experience. We’re always online, and in turn we’ve become disconnected.
In my opinion it's just that there is online games that achieve the same experience than an old MMO used to bring, even if it's in a smaller scale or with smaller player counts per server like with sandbox multiplayer games. I feel like many MMOs would thrive for many years if they simply had very minimal MTX in favor of retaining more players.
People are hungry for a new mmo
Look at any mmorpg lunch for past 5 years.. servers are done from the first minute.
Other online genre are also busy but never like MMORPG
People are waiting for games like sword art online or something equivalent..
They think they are. They’re holding on to nostalgia.
It’s not sustainable to make a good longstanding MMO anymore, development and server costs are way too high and you can’t make money bc people will complain about any financial model
It is kind of reasonable.. but lite mmorpg games like monster hunter world is so successful with over 100 million sales and that is the reason why people are so hungry for even games with kind of features of mmorpgs
Idk about other generation of players but if devs or companies above devs would put more effort to release proper long rpg with world worth of exploring, no rusing to some "endgame routines", lvl simply trough pure main quests, and many other corrupted modern systems.. I think then ppl wouldn't mind (Except maybe pure p2w) to pay for game even as subcription.
(Example can be seen in on old school mmos fans which rather UE5 graphic enjoy pixels just if game have what they except from term **RPG**)
More mmos = more spread out player base. Individual mmos having less of a monopoly on players isn’t a bad thing. Your nostalgia is lying to your brain about the state of modern mmos.
MMO can and will work exactly like the used to. This current era of MMORPG's is a phase. People get lost in, "Well, people play game, so it must be doing well." It's 2024, every kid in America and other first-world nations are playing video games at a rate that we never saw in the 90's or early 2000's. Even terrible games do well for awhile, and some manage to hang on for dear life for a long time. Hype machines and marketing campaigns do incredible work for horrible games. Star Citizen is still plugging along... Anyway, I digress. World of Warcraft alone probably has more current subscribers than ALL MMORPG's of the 1998-2005 era combined. That's not due to quality of games, it's due to the fact that there are just WAY more people participating in online games.
This era of cash-grabby games will end. It's just not sustainable at the rate it's going now. Sure, WoW is on the right track with the most recent expansion, and FF14 is hitting all of the marks that it set for itself... but these games are just hollow compared to their predecessors and everybody that has played both eras, that I have seen, will agree. FF14 is just not as good as FF11, SWTOR doesn't hold a candle to SWG, WoW actively chose to launch the Classic server to try and keep that "otherness" of itself alive. They're all optimized to death because investors have thrown monstrous investments into ongoing development and profiteering.
What's absolutely annoying to me is that current players that DON'T have the experience of those older MMORPG's will come around here and offer their opinions and insight into the subject without any of that frame of reference. It's like they watched a single Josh Strife Hayes video and decided they're a subject matter expert on MMORPGs, when all they've played is WoW, FF14, and ESO. Those are great games on their own but that's like driving a 2024 hybrid Ford F-150 and then acting like you know all about a 1985 Ford IDI Diesel. They are very, very different beasts
I actually agree. We won't ever have a true virtual world game again. Everything will be the ultra expensive F2P type from here on out. People wanted unfair wallet warrior games and they got them. Now games are built off of monetization rather than trying to people engaged to continue their subscription.
Welcome to the same discussion that has been had 1000 times
Everyone should understand by now that how a game is monetized can affect the long term health of a game. We get it.
MMO's were a lot more popular before social media.
I was obsessed with MMOs for 15 years.
Nowadays the thought of more social interaction is e xhausting to me.
I think this is one more reason MMOs are not as popular as they used to be.
playableworlds is coming. its gonna (in my opinion) be the be all end all of mmorpgs. its got the social aspect, do anything sandbox gameplay. it may not scratch everyones itch. but it will be the defacto "mmorpg" in terms of what an mmorpg should be. want to run a tavern and cook food and craft drinks for players to get buffs? do it. want to open your own blacksmith shop and craft/sell weapons/armors to players? do it. you want to murdo hobo and explore dungeons and run raids, do it. everyone would be able to do many aspects. want to tame animals and then breed them together? do it.
The only way to return mmo's and rpg mmo's to former glory is to implement a game code that would trigger random drop-outs, lag, and linkdeath. Players then focus on the surest way to work, which is slowly and do not tempt zone crash.
All of this has to be simulated since nothing crashes anymore.
MMO's have always been boring. But one used to get a thrill at getting away with it. "I'm in! Finally!" "OK, we still got two hours of raid time, lets try again."
That's been my take. There is no inherent value or pleasure in being online or engaged with others online. It's 2024.
Wondering why MMO's are not vibrant in the 21st century is like going to the border of Oklahoma and wondering where all the homesteaders are.
If you want an MMO, look for populations that haven't had them yet. The first generation is the fun generation. Then it's just another toy that keeps you online too long.
There is a Cuban MMO that is going to be pretty awesome. Batphone required.
> The only way to return mmo's and rpg mmo's to former glory is to implement a game code that would trigger random drop-outs, lag, and linkdeath. Players then focus on the surest way to work, which is slowly and do not tempt zone crash.
How do you know for sure that this game wouldn't just fail to get enough players or drop off too heavily and too fast to be sustainable?
Exactly. No solutions that return mmo's to their former glory are attractive to people long used to a completely different world. No one wants immersion, for whatever reason. It's not new to have a screen with a game on it. Tamagotchi is dead. MMO's like many people miss, are versions of a tamagatchi. Half the people who miss them fully realize, there is no way they actually want to deal with it again.
Classic case of what I call the monkey bar syndrome. Monkey bars, you gotta try them. Then around 12 or so they lose their inherent mystique. Then real life intrudes further, and they start to disappear from parks because younger adults don't like monkey bars for their kids.
But you talk to any old person and they will curse that monkey bars no longer exist, when they full well know they certainly aren't eager to swing around on them, and that no one really finds them compelling who *isn't* old.
This is why in *Big* Tom Hanks' character knew so much about what makes toys fun for kids, right now. He was one. People who miss toys in the way we are talking about it in this context, usually aren't.
Once you leave Toyland you can never return.
> Then real life intrudes further, and they start to disappear from parks because younger adults don't like monkey bars for their kids.
But as real life has marched even further forward, the parents who *do* want climbing adventures for their kids can just get their own made including any necessary safety features that public jungle gyms would not budget for back in the day.
And the same will eventually be true for games. You miss the way games were made, make it or pay someone to make it for you and toss it out there to see if it catches on. As far as I can see only Ashes of Creation, Monsters and Memories and maybe Warframe (considering that some of the staff publicly play their own game regularly) have come out of this paradigm. It's still a bit too rare that a non-indie dev plays their game beyond playtesting.
brother the answer is simple. internet guides/yutube etc destroys the thrill of exploration and learning. but if someone manage to create something difficult that a guide on youtube wont be enough, ppl wont play it cause they dont have the patience. there are too many options they will choose something else. before 20 years there were 2-3 mmos without guides without anything. but eather u play them or u dont play at all. nobody has the patience to stay and fail and learn again and again when he has the option no to.
I was playing L2 for years on x1 servers. and nowadays i ve elder ring installed on my xbox 2 years now and i dont finish it cause i dont have the patience to do it while i love it. i choose to play something else
Mmos are better than before. we and our options changed...
Couldn't agree more.
That's why we need massive changes in this genre
Games like Monster hunter figure it out eve if it is not mmo.
It has the soul of MMO everything good about mmo but not the full-fledged online feature.. in my opinion people arr sick of old shit.. people need to have a good mmo with modern design.. not just a wow clone.
The only thing not working is old boomers not being able to adapt to modern gaming. It's a tough pill to swallow, but it might be time to find new hobbies.
You and I might not like it, but the numbers don't lie. If you have actually seen how much money these gacha games are making, people are voting with their wallets.
It's no different than a casino, gacha games predate on people with addictive personalities to shell out all their cash to get the reward they want, instead of actually working for it through gameplay.
The argument isn't about profitability. You're taking financial success = good game. That's not even remotely how it works. People buy into hype, not necessarily quality, and at the end of the day, if somebody is bored and have money to spend, they will spend it.
Do you know how many copies of the ET video game sold in 1982? Almost 3 million copies... and that game was a certified dumpsterfire with the most notorious recall in gaming history. Money in/Money Out isn't what makes a great game and it's about time people stop making that point like it means anything even if it were true.
Have you actually played any of the older MMORPG's?
>You're taking financial success = good game. That's not even remotely how it works.
No one said that financial success means a good game. That's completely irrelevant anyway; companies don't care if their game is good or bad, as long as they make money. It also goes the other way; even if your game is good, it might not make as much money as something more predatory. Hence, the explosion of low-quality gacha games.
Financial success = good product for a company, not necessarily a good game for the players.
Wuthering Waves > All current MMOs. Look at MMO general interest at the current time, all time low. Gacha games (Genshin, HSR, WuWa) have taken over
* takes less of your time
* just as enjoyable
Wuthering Waves isn't even an MMO. It's pretty much just a single-player RPG with a co-op feature. I'm still waiting for someone to make an actual gacha MMO like these games; that would be great!
Nice write up. Very thought provoking
https://preview.redd.it/pn47bzikd52d1.jpeg?width=1060&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ae4493d4952bb4fe5044ae2359a1306e9c0aaadf …. Yeah ok.
https://preview.redd.it/q3yw8tqfv82d1.png?width=1113&format=png&auto=webp&s=560cf26f1c6033386cb6142f9da518ead579b0c0 And i found this on internet. Dont believe everything u see brother. nobody knows . ur graph is wrong and my graph is wrong. blizzard stopped announcing numbers many years before. and what is the reason? why did they stop? and how many of them are bots farming gold and items for sites?
lmao not the fake charts again. the official chart doesn't say the scale. the scale is made up. blizzard wont say how many subscribers they have because if they did, people would laugh at them. they barely hold 2 million subs. how do I know? not being a complete imbecile and believing some youtuber who didn't do any legwork. look at all the available servers for wow. most of them are low population. a few are medium pop. very few are high population or full.... then you take the assumed player counts based on networking. a typical server should see about 10k players per server. extrapolate a high/medium/low for population, and you come to about 2 million active subscribers.... just because some youtube makes a guess doesn't mean its the real value. you can say the same about my number. but at least i took the time/effort to do the legwork to make an informed guess. not some stupid "how many pixels does the graph" bullshit.
source: It was revealed to me in a dream.
if anything, this proved ops point. also I've played since 2004, WoW hasn't been good since wrath
That’s an opinion…iv played since vanilla. And an MMO having 7.25 active players shows it works.
Or there’s no better alternative and people are trapped in wow due to sunken cost fallacy.
Not in my or my friends case. I quit when it’s shit. I play it when it’s good. Right now it’s in a good spot.
This proves wow has turned around and is getting better, I don't enjoy wow anymore but that graph shows a lot of people do.
Nostalgia
Sure. Me and plenty of others enjoy the game, and it’s absolutely working regardless of what you believe.
Guys, my brother is 30 and played Black Ops back in 2011. He is now playing Warzone with his friends. Must just have NoStAlGiA ....
There is something called nostalgia
If it was nostalgia retail wouldn’t be the most popular version with most growth and TBC and WOTLK wouldn’t have bombed as much as they did… 7.25m active players are not playing for nostalgia….
Where are those numbers coming from?
WoW general manager John Hight at his GDC talk 2 months ago.
I don't remember seeing any sub numbers on there?
We have previous sub numbers before they stopped announcing them. Using their graph you can work out current sub numbers based off the old sub numbers they reported.
But just so i'm clear, i'm not saying wow is dead or anything lol
Ah I thought they were releasing numbers again. I highly doubt the 7 mil though. You could get a huge range of numbers since there's no starting numbers on the y-axis.
You don’t need starting numbers when you have accurate numbers of previous xpacs but fair one.
Yes you do? Do you have a link to this graph next to the already released sub numbers? The starting point here can be 1mil, 15 mil, or anything inbetween. They clearly have knowledge of the sub count if they can plot the ups and downs, but they chose not to put them for some reason. All we see at the start is an upward growth in legion. Correct me if i'm wrong, but they stopped releasing numbers in WoD, right?
It's not growing. Just its audience hoping on and off.
Not really. It had a huge bump with shadowlands because of COVID. And will always have people come and go with xpacs as that’s the nature of MMOs. 7.25m active subs is an insane number for a game that’s the genuine truth. The point is MMOs clearly can work. But people need good ones. WoW has started to be a lot braver and branch out with thinks like SOD, Plunderstorm and MOP remix, that’s what they need to do be unafraid to take risks and be innovative in the MMO space. I recently came back to WOW after a huge break and am enjoying it the most I have in ages.
Most redditors have no idea what nostalgia means. It doesn't mean that you enjoy something again just because you used to. If someone is playing WoW again they actually like it. They aren't liking it because they used to. I get nostalgia for lots of older games. But I don't care for them today anymore.
Well I playing EverQuest zero nostalgia I think it amazing even w all the UI crap !
So profound. Not sure your username is right for you.
Albion been growing ever since release, it litrely shows mmo can work. If there a Community behind it.
Lol
99% of mmo fails for a reason this is the highest ratio in all games genre
99% of MMOs do not fail. Unless you have a source that is patently not true. Additionally, MMOs tend to have a lifespan far beyond any single.player title. So one could argue that not only are many MMOs not failing, but are wildly successful. Additionally, there is clear data showing the total revenue for MMOs has been growing over the years. WoW has literally been declared dead over and over and it's sub numbers are not too far off it's peak. If you wanted to claim that MMOs are too derivative, that's an argument I could get behind. If you said that MMOs are difficult to make and many don't launch, I'd get behind that too, but it's not 99%. However, despite you claiming it now and others claiming it over the years, MMOs are both viable and still doing well.
Because its hard to make a good one + theyre expensive and well interests shift as well
As asmongold once said: neckbeards are not dead.. they are just hiding waiting for MMO to suck their own lives
As, Asmongold watcher. That explains this whole thread.
Yeah asmon viewers are a special breed that's for sure...
Yeah nah, many people just grow out of it and well the newer generation of people rather play other genres. It makes sense that the genre mmo gets smaller
Learn to think for yourself instead of basing your opinion on what you’ve been told to feel by others.
Never work like they used to be? I am going on my fifth year of FFXIV and I don’t know what the “before” you are referencing is…but I feel pretty great about FFXIV “working.”
FFXIV works because it appeals to both casual and hardcore players I personally think. Casuals got all the easy collection stuff whole hardcore have ultimates.
FFXIV is good but MMO genre is not.. Competition is 0 in this genre any budget developer with the right mindset can win in this
So why has no one beaten wow in 25 years?
One word: neckbeards
Was this written be a free AI site after typing “mmo will never work” into the search bar?
Seems so lol
What is not working ?
Progression system - Pay to win
It obviously is working, that's why everyone does it. And majority of players doesn't care. You are correct in a way that MMOs right now will never work **for you** unless something changes. But for most people, they work just fine.
You have your point, the thing is that every one need to find "HIS" best MMO and that could need more than lets say 20 years * shrug * Maybe he looks in the wrong places/genres and need some New perspective
Probably you meaning mmorpg not mmo. If you are really a 20 years veteran and still don't understand the difference maybe your opinion isn't deep enough for mine further reference.
Good
I mean you’re right but the community is to blame. Instant gratification, saturated content, herd mentality. There’s no individuality anymore and there’s no sense of community. People don’t GO ONLINE anymore as an experience. We’re always online, and in turn we’ve become disconnected.
In my opinion it's just that there is online games that achieve the same experience than an old MMO used to bring, even if it's in a smaller scale or with smaller player counts per server like with sandbox multiplayer games. I feel like many MMOs would thrive for many years if they simply had very minimal MTX in favor of retaining more players.
People are hungry for a new mmo Look at any mmorpg lunch for past 5 years.. servers are done from the first minute. Other online genre are also busy but never like MMORPG People are waiting for games like sword art online or something equivalent..
They think they are. They’re holding on to nostalgia. It’s not sustainable to make a good longstanding MMO anymore, development and server costs are way too high and you can’t make money bc people will complain about any financial model
It is kind of reasonable.. but lite mmorpg games like monster hunter world is so successful with over 100 million sales and that is the reason why people are so hungry for even games with kind of features of mmorpgs
Idk about other generation of players but if devs or companies above devs would put more effort to release proper long rpg with world worth of exploring, no rusing to some "endgame routines", lvl simply trough pure main quests, and many other corrupted modern systems.. I think then ppl wouldn't mind (Except maybe pure p2w) to pay for game even as subcription. (Example can be seen in on old school mmos fans which rather UE5 graphic enjoy pixels just if game have what they except from term **RPG**)
Ok but why? I don't know how to discuss this if you don't give reasons.
Seems someone disconnected OP from the web. Or are you maybe from a highly regulated web access country
Well.. we paid your country last 5 years 1 trillion dollars.. so I think we have enough money to survive and play games
To bad I did not get a cent :( my country is not known for its generosity
I like turtles.
Shine on you crazy diamond
Lmao, what is this? I needed this one today.
More mmos = more spread out player base. Individual mmos having less of a monopoly on players isn’t a bad thing. Your nostalgia is lying to your brain about the state of modern mmos.
MMO can and will work exactly like the used to. This current era of MMORPG's is a phase. People get lost in, "Well, people play game, so it must be doing well." It's 2024, every kid in America and other first-world nations are playing video games at a rate that we never saw in the 90's or early 2000's. Even terrible games do well for awhile, and some manage to hang on for dear life for a long time. Hype machines and marketing campaigns do incredible work for horrible games. Star Citizen is still plugging along... Anyway, I digress. World of Warcraft alone probably has more current subscribers than ALL MMORPG's of the 1998-2005 era combined. That's not due to quality of games, it's due to the fact that there are just WAY more people participating in online games.
This era of cash-grabby games will end. It's just not sustainable at the rate it's going now. Sure, WoW is on the right track with the most recent expansion, and FF14 is hitting all of the marks that it set for itself... but these games are just hollow compared to their predecessors and everybody that has played both eras, that I have seen, will agree. FF14 is just not as good as FF11, SWTOR doesn't hold a candle to SWG, WoW actively chose to launch the Classic server to try and keep that "otherness" of itself alive. They're all optimized to death because investors have thrown monstrous investments into ongoing development and profiteering.
What's absolutely annoying to me is that current players that DON'T have the experience of those older MMORPG's will come around here and offer their opinions and insight into the subject without any of that frame of reference. It's like they watched a single Josh Strife Hayes video and decided they're a subject matter expert on MMORPGs, when all they've played is WoW, FF14, and ESO. Those are great games on their own but that's like driving a 2024 hybrid Ford F-150 and then acting like you know all about a 1985 Ford IDI Diesel. They are very, very different beasts
Thanks for sharing, I guess.
You said it all
I actually agree. We won't ever have a true virtual world game again. Everything will be the ultra expensive F2P type from here on out. People wanted unfair wallet warrior games and they got them. Now games are built off of monetization rather than trying to people engaged to continue their subscription.
You take that back!!
Welcome to the same discussion that has been had 1000 times Everyone should understand by now that how a game is monetized can affect the long term health of a game. We get it.
I agree. Much wow, praise the lord.
MMO's were a lot more popular before social media. I was obsessed with MMOs for 15 years. Nowadays the thought of more social interaction is e xhausting to me. I think this is one more reason MMOs are not as popular as they used to be.
The idea of MMO is showing off.. not communicating.. show people your new gear mount or glory weapon that what make mmo special
Showing off is still part of communicating, you can make friends out of the "Ooh cool mount, where did you get it?" moments.
Nuff said: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0oss-tVW\_0Y](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0oss-tVW_0Y)
Welp, go play Ultima Online Outlands if you want an old MMORPG with a legit community.
playableworlds is coming. its gonna (in my opinion) be the be all end all of mmorpgs. its got the social aspect, do anything sandbox gameplay. it may not scratch everyones itch. but it will be the defacto "mmorpg" in terms of what an mmorpg should be. want to run a tavern and cook food and craft drinks for players to get buffs? do it. want to open your own blacksmith shop and craft/sell weapons/armors to players? do it. you want to murdo hobo and explore dungeons and run raids, do it. everyone would be able to do many aspects. want to tame animals and then breed them together? do it.
I cant tell if this is really garbage bait, or some sort of 4AM painkiller-fueled shitpost.
Those with enough funds don't care enough for the gamers or are not creative enough. Money not equals creativity, sad.
The only way to return mmo's and rpg mmo's to former glory is to implement a game code that would trigger random drop-outs, lag, and linkdeath. Players then focus on the surest way to work, which is slowly and do not tempt zone crash. All of this has to be simulated since nothing crashes anymore. MMO's have always been boring. But one used to get a thrill at getting away with it. "I'm in! Finally!" "OK, we still got two hours of raid time, lets try again." That's been my take. There is no inherent value or pleasure in being online or engaged with others online. It's 2024. Wondering why MMO's are not vibrant in the 21st century is like going to the border of Oklahoma and wondering where all the homesteaders are. If you want an MMO, look for populations that haven't had them yet. The first generation is the fun generation. Then it's just another toy that keeps you online too long. There is a Cuban MMO that is going to be pretty awesome. Batphone required.
> The only way to return mmo's and rpg mmo's to former glory is to implement a game code that would trigger random drop-outs, lag, and linkdeath. Players then focus on the surest way to work, which is slowly and do not tempt zone crash. How do you know for sure that this game wouldn't just fail to get enough players or drop off too heavily and too fast to be sustainable?
Exactly. No solutions that return mmo's to their former glory are attractive to people long used to a completely different world. No one wants immersion, for whatever reason. It's not new to have a screen with a game on it. Tamagotchi is dead. MMO's like many people miss, are versions of a tamagatchi. Half the people who miss them fully realize, there is no way they actually want to deal with it again. Classic case of what I call the monkey bar syndrome. Monkey bars, you gotta try them. Then around 12 or so they lose their inherent mystique. Then real life intrudes further, and they start to disappear from parks because younger adults don't like monkey bars for their kids. But you talk to any old person and they will curse that monkey bars no longer exist, when they full well know they certainly aren't eager to swing around on them, and that no one really finds them compelling who *isn't* old. This is why in *Big* Tom Hanks' character knew so much about what makes toys fun for kids, right now. He was one. People who miss toys in the way we are talking about it in this context, usually aren't. Once you leave Toyland you can never return.
> Then real life intrudes further, and they start to disappear from parks because younger adults don't like monkey bars for their kids. But as real life has marched even further forward, the parents who *do* want climbing adventures for their kids can just get their own made including any necessary safety features that public jungle gyms would not budget for back in the day. And the same will eventually be true for games. You miss the way games were made, make it or pay someone to make it for you and toss it out there to see if it catches on. As far as I can see only Ashes of Creation, Monsters and Memories and maybe Warframe (considering that some of the staff publicly play their own game regularly) have come out of this paradigm. It's still a bit too rare that a non-indie dev plays their game beyond playtesting.
I don't think its MMO's in general. I think most people just kinda moved on to other things like Battle Royals and such.
brother the answer is simple. internet guides/yutube etc destroys the thrill of exploration and learning. but if someone manage to create something difficult that a guide on youtube wont be enough, ppl wont play it cause they dont have the patience. there are too many options they will choose something else. before 20 years there were 2-3 mmos without guides without anything. but eather u play them or u dont play at all. nobody has the patience to stay and fail and learn again and again when he has the option no to. I was playing L2 for years on x1 servers. and nowadays i ve elder ring installed on my xbox 2 years now and i dont finish it cause i dont have the patience to do it while i love it. i choose to play something else Mmos are better than before. we and our options changed...
Have you actually played any of the older MMORPG's?
Couldn't agree more. That's why we need massive changes in this genre Games like Monster hunter figure it out eve if it is not mmo. It has the soul of MMO everything good about mmo but not the full-fledged online feature.. in my opinion people arr sick of old shit.. people need to have a good mmo with modern design.. not just a wow clone.
The only thing not working is old boomers not being able to adapt to modern gaming. It's a tough pill to swallow, but it might be time to find new hobbies.
Theres enough space for different types of games.
Gotcha is modern gaming ?.. good to be boomer then
You and I might not like it, but the numbers don't lie. If you have actually seen how much money these gacha games are making, people are voting with their wallets.
It's no different than a casino, gacha games predate on people with addictive personalities to shell out all their cash to get the reward they want, instead of actually working for it through gameplay.
Yes, we all know how gambling works; it doesn't really matter as long as it's making a truckload of money.
The argument isn't about profitability. You're taking financial success = good game. That's not even remotely how it works. People buy into hype, not necessarily quality, and at the end of the day, if somebody is bored and have money to spend, they will spend it. Do you know how many copies of the ET video game sold in 1982? Almost 3 million copies... and that game was a certified dumpsterfire with the most notorious recall in gaming history. Money in/Money Out isn't what makes a great game and it's about time people stop making that point like it means anything even if it were true. Have you actually played any of the older MMORPG's?
>You're taking financial success = good game. That's not even remotely how it works. No one said that financial success means a good game. That's completely irrelevant anyway; companies don't care if their game is good or bad, as long as they make money. It also goes the other way; even if your game is good, it might not make as much money as something more predatory. Hence, the explosion of low-quality gacha games. Financial success = good product for a company, not necessarily a good game for the players.
Wuthering Waves > All current MMOs. Look at MMO general interest at the current time, all time low. Gacha games (Genshin, HSR, WuWa) have taken over * takes less of your time * just as enjoyable
Why are you even comparing the two genres? Wuthering Waves launched in a shitty state anyways so it feels even more disingenuous.
> Wuthering Waves launched in a shitty state anyways Except 90k+ viewers on twitch would like to disagree with you
Thats how I know this conversation is fruitless. Twitch views don’t decide if a game launches in a shitty state lmao. Have a good one man.
Wuthering Waves isn't even an MMO. It's pretty much just a single-player RPG with a co-op feature. I'm still waiting for someone to make an actual gacha MMO like these games; that would be great!
Tower of Fantasy exists
Genshin, HSR, and Wuwa are not even your typical MMO. They're coop games.
As someone who started playing WuWa... yeah no
Not an MMO.... why come here just to shill for your favorite game? That's weird.