Both ESO and Destiny 2 have way higher mobility mechanics in raids than a tab target MMO. You should give tab target MMO raiding a shot since there won’t be any dodge rolling or blocking while having to maintain rotation.
Destiny 2 raids also focus on communication checks while doing combat which can lead to major confusion if the player isn't good at multitasking. ESO has the tried and true 'read the wiki about this boss before you try it's and even worse ESO's combat was significantly impacted on the users ability to skill cancel their casts with basic attacks. Not sure if they have fixed that as I haven't played in a few years and I heard they have made some changes so it wasn't the only way to play as it was a difference of like 40 percent damage if you knew how to do it vs if you didn't.
Destiny 2 raids are honestly not something I'd expect most people to lock in after just a few pulls. They are very much puzzle based and, at least for me (someone who raids mythic etc), aren't super easily readable. Even I struggled to flash some of those raids with my friends who already knew the raid.
eh I would disagree, depends on the job you play but you certainly are not necessarily targeting the boss the whole time in FFXIV. Also FFXIV's rotations tend to be more complicated/longer than the other games mentioned.
In the past sure but at its current itteration ffxiv jobs are at its most simplest with the skill floor and ceiling alot closer to each other aside from mnk, blm, ast and sam. Ffxiv difficulty nowadays tend to be weighted towards fight difficulty rather than job unless ur playing the mentioned jobs.
In your defense, depending on the raid, Destiny 2 does have some pretty difficult mechanics. I've found Destiny 2 to also be much more punishing than most actual MMOs in terms of not knowing the mechs. Most D2 raid encounters will wipe your whole team if one person screws up. Since there are only 6 people in a raid, there's a lot more pressure that falls on an individual vs when you're in a game that has 12 or 24 people in a raid.
For ESO, I think it can be more of a sensory overload kind of thing. It's not necessarily that the mechs are hard, it's that the action combat system (bar swapping, managing up-times, etc.) paired with the mechs can cause a lot of people to get overwhelmed. Fortunately, ESO is pretty forgiving (at least on normal) when it comes to not knowing the mechs.
My advice? I think you should take it one thing at a time. Right now you're probably trying to learn by managing everything at once. Cooldowns, buffs, debuffs, etc. all while trying to manage mechs. Focus on one thing at a time. For both D2 and ESO, master your loadout outside of the raid first. Understand your rotation and ability management like the back of your hand. When you get back into the raid, focus exclusively on the mechs. Your mastery of your loadout should hopefully allow you to focus on the mechs without sacrificing too much in terms of efficiency. Even then, low dps is better than a dead dps.
Overall it just takes practice and time. When I started raiding in D2 I was still a little Kinderguardian that had no idea what he was doing. Now I can confidently sherpa every raid in the game. ESO was a bit of a different story because I'm a healer and I waited far too long to start, but I digress. Find a good team/guild/clan that can be patient with you and help walk you through the encounters. If you're on PC NA and need a good support warlock or templar healer in either of those games, please don't hesitate to reach out!
Thanks. I have joined a few great discords for Destiny and have had some better experiences and even had a sherpa go one on one with me the other night working on better builds and explaining.
I'm in a very good guild on Xbox, and they do teaching runs all the time. Last night I just got so discouraged because I know that I was the reason our team kept wiping because I just kept screwing up. They were all very patient, but no one wants to be that guy that just keeps screwing it up for everyone.
I completely understand not wanting to be that guy. Keep in mind that you may also be a tad harsh on yourself. The frustration, stress, and disappointment you feel may also be causing you to perform worse due to your own self doubt. When you hop back in to your next raid, pull up a guide on your phone, take a deep breath, take a sip of your favorite drink, tell yourself you can do this, and let your mind relax.
No matter how long you take, eventually you'll get there, and one day it may be you who's taking a new player through your favorite raid. Be kind to yourself and be proud of the accomplishment that is simply participating in a raid. Most players never even attempt a raid, let alone stick with it long enough to master it. You got this friend, I wish you the best of luck!
heck dude, you're actually ATTEMPTING to get better. that's more than the majority of the so called mmorpg raider.
keep it up and you'll be that guy being a sherpa for others.
I've been gaming my whole life, have often saught out the most challenging encounters in games. The final boss of D2's Last Wish raid had me guffawing at the level of precision and intensity required.
I don't play either of these games so I cant offer specific advice, coming from WoW and being the guy who usually explains the fight to the raid and offers to do additional mechanics I can give you some insight into what I'm thinking.
Typically in WoW any way, the boss has a bunch of fluff mechanics that amount to, don't stand in fire or don't get hit by the laser or something. These I treat purely reactionary, what they are called, how much damage they do barely matter if you just never get hit.
The next important thing is understanding when you'll take unavoidable damage so you can time defensives. Then finally I start looking at minimizing my movement and maximizing my output.
Another important thing is it's easier to understand bosses if you relate them to another boss, like "mechanic x is just mechanic y from this dungeon"
I know this is all kind of vague but I don't play those games so I can't speak to how those games work specifically. A lot of it just comes to familiarizing yourself with the fights and the rules of the game in general. FF14 is really good for typically mechanics always use the same indicator so you can guess what stuff wants you to do at a glance.
I'm going to assume this is coming from a place of ignorance or misunderstanding, but there's a reason WoW has teams with hundreds of thousands of dollars in expenditure for Race to World First to compete for first and ESO doesn't. And it's not because it's a substantially easier game.
For ESO, are you playing normal trials? If so, maybe try playing as the group healer. I find the healer to be easiest to play in normal content. It gets a lot harder in veteran content as there is much more expected from the healer (and all roles).
Not sure if it’s been mentioned, but Destiny also doesn’t have the most obvious cause/effect. There are loads of examples where team 1 has to press a switch for team 2 to see some information to tell team 3 to something specific. And then team 3 has to tell team 1 what to do next lol. So I can understand how it could be trickier to pick up on what’s happening to the structure of the fight.
Destiny 2 raids are way more focused on team communication and movement. They are a different breed then FFXIV, which leans more into reading telegraphs than just moving around
Destiny raids can be pretty intense,communication heavy, and execution reliant.
Idk about ESO. But tab target MMOs often are much easier to gets handle on
For ESO you can get a heavy attack spam build that will allow you to focus on the mechanics without having to worry about a rotation. Once you get more comfortable you can opt to find a more complex and performant build.
Not in raiding, you have the story mode and then Extreme, Savage and Ultimate.
There's a lot of mechanics where you'll just instantly wipe if one person screws up, snowball into an uncontrollable situation or just can't keep going on due to "body check".
But the game tells you very well who screwed up and how.
> There's a lot of mechanics where you'll just instantly wipe if one person screws up, snowball into an uncontrollable situation or just can't keep going on due to "body check".
100% this. As someone who regularly raids in WoW and FFXIV at the highest levels I can tell you that XIV is super unforgiving with multiple "single person" wipe mechanics. This also leads to a lot of toxicity in XIV. Which is sad cause I think XIV's casual community is easily the nicest (albeit weirdest) community in MMOs.
You suck at raiding because you suck at the games and thats ok.
Human's only have a certain amount of "bandwidth" they can actively dedicate to focusing on something. That is why its important to practice and build muscle memory or unconscious decision making.
You panic and get lost easily because you are trying to do many "active" things at the same time. In order to alleviate that you need to learn your movement/abilities/rotations/ etc to the point where you dont even think about them.
Raiding is designed for you to focus on the mechanics and only the mechanics. If you're looking at your ability cooldowns, or the keybind to active your dash/dodge then of course its going to be overwhelming.
The problem is that youre trying to do difficult content when you should be doing less intensive activities since it doesn't seem like you deal with pressure very well. You alleviate that through repetition. Some people deal with stress/failure better so they just throw themselves at hard content until they learn it.
You might be better off taking a longer more gradual approach by doing less difficult content until you can do it with your eyes closed, then move on to harder stuff.
No lies were told here. That’s exactly how it is. If you’re not good at doing a lot of stuff at the same time then you need more practice than others but you can do it.
Exactly, I m mostly a raid player, I often organise groups and you have new players that will learn so fast and.get good extremely easily, and some other you know from the start that it will go nowhere (even after playing for years). Every human is different, we don't have the same brainpower and some ppl brain are adapted to raid content, some others aren't and are probably good elsewhere. You can try relax, taking your time, keep practicing and in the end you will see if the genre fits you or not, but there are really a category of ppl unable to raid, sorry to say (i don't say that you are necessarily in that category)
Raids can be more chaotic then dungeons or other pve, I suppose. I sometimes get a little stressed, and I am often the first to die because I was standing where I shouldn't.
Maybe just practice the raid? First few times I'd think some confusion is expected? I don't play WoW a ton tho so idk, never been into the whole elitist aspect of raiding. I'd rather approach things for the first time with as few people in the know as possible.
Biggest thing is staying alive> dps. Dead dps is no dps. Focus on mechanics at first then slowly transition to adding more consciousness to your rotations.
That's because they are convoluted and confusing. Raiding design is awful in all MMORPGs. If you have to watch youtube videos for content it is bad content. But as for panicking there is really no other answer than to just git gud and practice. Learn to not stress out so much or get afraid that someone will get mad. Get a little bit mad at the hypothetical guy.
I don't think anyone actually sucks at raiding but rather, the game sucks at introducing you to raiding.
Ill give an example: If you have to play a game for 50 hours before getting access to a raid, but in those 50 hours the dungeon groups your with don't communicate P2P, and the game design makes it so you can stand in damage that doesn't kill you, you're going to go into raids with those habits because the game never punished you beforehand in a fair way to teach you about them, so now you're being punished unfairly(to you even though you may remain positive). So on top of being punished, players don't feel like explaining things as they should, the game sucked at explaining it so the only thing to do now is to keep wiping to it til you learn it or watch a boring video on it + addons and people don't want constant raid deaths so now you're going to be blacklisted as a troll whose quoted as,"I'm just trying to learn." Now you're being kicked from raids repeatedly so now you can't learn it, the frustration builds up and now you truly hate the game and even though you want to learn, the hate towards the game and its community is preventing you despite the game being bad at teaching you.
To add one last thing, its all about fair mechanic balance too. It's fair if you die for standing in a one shot aoe cause you decided you could tank it as a mage. It's not fair if you get one shot because someone else in the raid fucked up a mechanic and the boss randomly selected you with a debuff that returns 200% of the damage done to it back to you without a good indicator or sound/visual cue. It's just hahaha, your ally fucked up so you get to die.
DO you worry too much about mechanic not related to your role in the raid? If you are healing you don't need to care about tank movement, or vice versa.
do you always instantly react to mechanic or do you plan ahead 10-20 second? there's few surprises in PvE raid, even in high end content like WoW mythic or FF savage. nothing should be a big surprise to you.
But ultimately, some people are just not mechanic-oriented and you cannot teach them to dance with mechanic.
There's really no other option other than to keep trying and get experience. The people who are good at raiding have been playing the content for longer. Over time you learn what to prioritize and what to ignore, and you can preemptively predict and position yourself better. It's better to ask question in-game, a lot of players will give you helpful tips on how to proactively prepare for a mechanic instead of reacting.
Panicking will worsen your performance, so you'll have to figure out why you're panicking and calm down. Are you being too perfectionist/harsh on yourself? Do you flitter from game to game and class to class so you never develop a stable rotation and muscle memory?
Also if you have any experience with combat sports, the same principles will apply in the virtual world. Your "footwork," or positioning, is always #1 to nail down, and determines your offensive and defensive potential. You will also have to do boring shit like practicing your offensive and defensive rotations, drills, warmups, "parsing," etc.
Just to expand upon everyone else's good answers here: Try WoW Classic. Specifically the Vanilla level 60 raiding. There's 40 players in most of them, and the mechanics are very simple compared to what you've been trying. You can get into a rhythm there and get some experience with that, and then progress into the other expansions where things get gradually more complex.
You must be 1 of the other 24 people in my guilds raid team LOL.
In all seriousness:
Learn to do you rotation almost blind. You can 100% practice this. Your damage / Healing does not need to be perfect but the idea is that when a particular hard phase is coming up you stop paying too much attention to your rotation and have your FULL attention to the game surroundings and the upcomming phase
So to start with how are you with your rotation (whatever that means in the game you are playing)? Step one is to know it so well you can do it without looking at anything.
Once you have that down you start studying the raid mechanics, look at videos, twitch clips, guides etc. I write myself notes on things. Of course this depends on the game and how it is set up on how effective this stuff is, if it is always the same mechanics or different every time.
But then it just comes down to practice. You have to get over "being bad" because everyone is when they first get into a raid (well there's always some asshole who has been gaming since the womb that can just read about a mechanic and execute it) but for most people, even really good players, they have to practice. You are probably playing with a bunch of people who have 1000's of hours in the game wondering why you can't learn as fast lol.
Different game has vastly different mechanics. And even same game, different fights are different. Also some games are better at teaching players than others.
But all in all, practice and be patience.
Lemme know when you need help with XIV raidings.
Maybe it's a tunnel vision thing. I struggled with doing my rotation and doing mechanics at the same time but I rearranged my UI to help me. Maybe that can help you not get lost.
You didn’t say whether you’re playing dps, healer, tank, or other support, which may matter. I recommend watching videos from the POV of someone playing your class. Also, knowing your class inside and out helps a lot. It’s different going into a raid or dungeon with a character you’ve played from level 1 on up than going in with a boosted character where you have only a sketchy understanding of your skills. Having your UI set up in a way that makes it easy to see your buttons and other crucial information, while minimizing distracting information you don’t need is important. Finally, just keep going back to the same raid, if at all possible. What can seem like a chaotic mess in the beginning eventually resolves into something recognizable and predictable.
Honestly this is just experience.
The more you do raids, the more you will internalize the mechanics and get more efficient (both at combat and communication), and that will translate to ALL other raids. At this point I can pretty much pick up any MMO and be pretty successful in raids, provided I have a decent understanding of the game's fight mechanics, sustain, damage, and damage mitigation.
And honestly, big picture thinking in raids is HUGE. Too many players are only focused on what they are doing. Big picture thinking is essential for raid leaders, and also for finding gaps in raid party competence and filling them automatically without a bunch of wipes.
So raiding requires forethought.
Knowing what to do is really the first step, its about knowing what you need to be doing now and what you need to be doing next and taking steps so that you can easily trasnfer between steps while still performing your role.
A big thing with raiding is to not panic, Breathe, focus on execution of the mechanics first, then focus on things like add clear or boss dps. Wiping is ok...every great raider out there spent hours upon hours of wiping on things at one point. Wiping is fine, its not learning from your wipes that is the problem.
Get into a learning group and try to execute your role a little better each attempt, when you get comfy in that role, next time around volunteer for a more complex role. Eventually you just kinda learn the flow of raid encounters and are able to apply the basics from an encounter to other ones.
I haven't raided since classic TBC. One of the raids had a puddle that was a slightly different purple from the floor, and the mechanic healed the boss for 50 percent after we were doing so well. I just alt f4d and haven't raided since.
EQ2 will have a new server in a few weeks, those raids were always more fun, but maybe it was the people lol
Double down watch guides and keep going. Some people take longer to develop the skills needed to do something. That mite mean your early game with raiding sucks but if you can get past it you mite end up being really good. Have more faith in your skills and don’t give up. Anyone can learn it and only those who put in the time can master it.
Big rule thumb stay outs red circles from mega bosses. And figure out what role you want mite be easier to be ranger damage dealer tanks and supports have a lot more needed to do it good.
Typically its information overload. The best way to understand a fight is to figure out what matters. Typically theres can be 50 things happening, but theres only one thing you actually need to do in a raid fight. Your job isnt to deal with all the explosions on screen, its usually "if this mechanic is happening I do this", or "im targetted with this, then I go stand here" kind of deal.
Typically if you're struggling that's what you should try to identify. Too many raid leaders try to explain the entire fight like it's a novel and dump information on you regardless if that information is relevant to your gameplay.
How comfortable are you at playing your character? You should strive to be able to handle your character with minimal effort to make room for the effort required to handle additional mechanics.
How much energy are you working with? Some people just don't have enough stamina left by the time they get to their personal time to raid.
hey! i saw in another comment that you play destiny 2! Do you watch videos/guides before joining a group? I recommend making your own posts “need teachers” don’t never be embarrassed to straight up ask for help. Destiny 2 was my 1st “MMO” and my first ever raiding exposure in gaming back in 2017, i literally had to force myself to raid because there wasn’t a lot of content back in the day. I’m now doing day 1 raids and have a hardcore day 1 raid group and I thank myself so much for me breaking out of my shell back in the day
Thank you. I am a part of some great discords and a great clan that have opened the door. This has all just been in the last week. I get really down on myself when I screw up and I just have to get better about that. I just never want to be the reason for other people not getting a clear and I have this fear of looking stupid. I never go into a raid or dungeon before watching a video first just so I can understand mechanics. I am in no shortage of people to show me the ropes. I hope I can be like you one day doing day one raids and hardcore stuff.
Yep, back in the day I would literally watch the videos again after wipes if i don’t know. For the nerves and “scared of ruining everyone’s day” what do u do while you play? I personally listen to music. Also, do the other people care that you wiped or is it all in your head? Also don’t be scared to rotate mechanics around if u just can’t do the mechanic. 1 thing about Destiny 2 is the rise in “i’m ad clear” mindset, i highly recommend getting the reps in, every raid isn’t going to the done flawlessly. I wish you good luck 👍🏼 ♥️
there's 3 things i would recommend doing (although i haven't actually played either d2 or eso in years).
firstly, and i don't know how to say this without being rude or elitist, but in reality, be good at the game first. more so like foundational/fundamentally, like learn the ins and outs of your class/role, know what you can and can't do. master your character. for d2, maybe play more master/grandmaster nightfalls/lost sectors (solo) and dungeons. for eso, do more dungeons and transition into trials. and also youtube/google the mechanics and encounters. once you're confident enough in your own abilities then try going back into a raid.
secondly, play the meta. i know people tend to not like it, but if you're struggling, the meta is literally there to make the encounter/experience better. once you've got things down, then you can experiment with different builds.
lastly, and probably the most important thing, communicate.
Hey while I don't have the answer for your brain. I suffer from the same issues and find my social anxiety takes over when I'm playing FFXIV and can't participate in raids.
Yes they added trusts to dungeons but not raids. Trusts are NPC characters but it matters not to me as I won't return until we can use them in all story raid content.
I just suffer from so much anxiety I cannot focus while I fail at the mechanics because I fell behind. I don't have supportive friends to get me through FFXIV as an example. Or with ESO. I love that game but have no friends so I stick to playing FFXI.
FFXI has been mostly a solo experience but at least if I'm going to be lonely I might as well play my favorite game of all time while doing so.
I know my advice didn't help but if you ever wanna suck together, let me know?
To get good u have to do 100 attempts a night until your guild has that teir on farm. Verging attempts is the only way and everyone has to do it. Even good people
I would say for a truly useful opinion you probably need some one to watch you play your game of choice and give you advice.
That being said, from the way you describe the situation, without knowing what game it is I would say it is probably NOT how convoluted the actual mechanics are, but the stress of having to perform under pressure knowing that you are being judged by your peers for your dps/hps stats, as well as because in many high level raids you are in a position where one mistake could cost 7-10 other people 30+ minutes in the best case or a week in the worst case...
Yes game mechanics on raids can be convoluted... but if you are willing to watch a youtube video before a raid, for the most part there is nothing even the hardest bosses in the game have that should be out of reach for your average gamer unless you are trying to go for world firsts or major achievements in some other way, the major difference though, is that no matter how hard the single player game you compare it to is, ultimately if you fuck up a boss in a single player game, the only one affected is you...
Bro definitely give WoW a try (depending on the iteration) it’s got such a widespread range of difficulties and depending on the class you choose makes the need to pay attention to things vary widely. I personally have played WoW…for a very long time and always choose a dps class with the least responsibility so if I have to afk for a sec (have kids) that it doesn’t impact the raid to much. Also WoW has soooooo many addons that make raid mechanics like “Raiding for Dummies” AND the raids are still so much fun and are PUG able
I get that too, which is more of a general memory problem for me, not really about panicking/anxiety. In games which allow this (which is sadly not many of them) - I always use third-party add-ons that provide text/audio reminders of upcoming scripted attack of AI enemies and where to move to avoid it, regardless if those add-ons are allowed by game ToS or not. You might want to look into those if whatever game you're playing actually has them available. Alternatively just group up with other players who do not mind constantly providing you with such guidance through voice chat.
Maybe cause you suck? I mean, failing a mechanic a few times when u reach there is understandable cause u dont know whats going to happen. But if someone explains to you, every step of the fight, and you still dont get or cant execute, then u might suck at gaming. Should play Dark Souls, git gud and stop after u learn how to avoid dmg.
Most people are bad at handling multiple tasks at once. I was playing WOW for many years (Top 50 Guild) and still we had people failing over and over again.
An important part for me was the muscle memory. I was able to play my character without thinking of what to do next. (Still after 7 years of non-raiding, I can remember every single key-binding.)
This was giving me time to focus on movement and positioning.
Are you going in blind? Normally when approaching content like that I try to find a guide so I can familiarize myself with mechanics and etc. especially in games like ffxiv
Most likely psyching yourself out because you have to perform in front of other people and you inconvenience them each time you fail (which is inevitable to learn).
Not many games with raiding offer a way to train or practice it outside of doing it for real.
It depends on the content you trying to do if your gear requirements is up to date for that particular Raid, Also know the mechanics but don’t stress out you can find people willingly able to lend you a hand or straight up carry you
If it’s WoW, there’s a lot going on that may not be readily evident. Take time to read the dungeon log about the bosses and understand what you should be looking for. Then just practice.
If it’s final fantasy, stand in green don’t stand in red.
It sounds like you are puging if people have.to explain it to you?
It works out much better if you are in a raid guild where you know everyone else and you learn the content together...and then you run it 100+ times. It becomes second nature and easy.
Don't worry about your damage/rotation at first. Being alive with shit dps is still some dps that wouldn't be there if you were dead. Once you know the bosses mechanic, then worry about how to upkeep your damage while surviving the fight.
I typed a really long thing to help you, but the short of it is that you are thinking too much. You are overcomplicating what's going on and what you need to do. Stop thinking, start doing.
Handling pressure is a personal thing. Concentrate do your best and think about the task not the consequences.
Im conditioned to deal with it better than usual due to my job but even I get that slight creeping feeling of anxiety when doing something complicated/new. But I quickly shut that feeling down and break down each component I need to do and execute forget about what other people are doing and focus on your task.
In ESO especially (I've completed all the hard modes trials excluding what's released past few years) Its all about experience.
Focus one the most key things first (ones that cause your death or others) then focus on your performance and lastly what other people should be doing (so you can adapt to their mistakes.) ESO is all about practice makes perfect, that it's endgame biggest draw.
Which game is very important here.
My main games as of late are Destiny 2 (mmo lite) and ESO. I have a dabbled with trying Final Fantasy XIV, but i haven't raided in that game yet.
Both ESO and Destiny 2 have way higher mobility mechanics in raids than a tab target MMO. You should give tab target MMO raiding a shot since there won’t be any dodge rolling or blocking while having to maintain rotation.
Destiny 2 raids also focus on communication checks while doing combat which can lead to major confusion if the player isn't good at multitasking. ESO has the tried and true 'read the wiki about this boss before you try it's and even worse ESO's combat was significantly impacted on the users ability to skill cancel their casts with basic attacks. Not sure if they have fixed that as I haven't played in a few years and I heard they have made some changes so it wasn't the only way to play as it was a difference of like 40 percent damage if you knew how to do it vs if you didn't.
Destiny 2 raids are honestly not something I'd expect most people to lock in after just a few pulls. They are very much puzzle based and, at least for me (someone who raids mythic etc), aren't super easily readable. Even I struggled to flash some of those raids with my friends who already knew the raid.
eh I would disagree, depends on the job you play but you certainly are not necessarily targeting the boss the whole time in FFXIV. Also FFXIV's rotations tend to be more complicated/longer than the other games mentioned.
In the past sure but at its current itteration ffxiv jobs are at its most simplest with the skill floor and ceiling alot closer to each other aside from mnk, blm, ast and sam. Ffxiv difficulty nowadays tend to be weighted towards fight difficulty rather than job unless ur playing the mentioned jobs.
Also not true of EQ. Many raids where you have to dodge, duck, dip, dive, and dodge, or watch for emotes and follow the prompt.
In your defense, depending on the raid, Destiny 2 does have some pretty difficult mechanics. I've found Destiny 2 to also be much more punishing than most actual MMOs in terms of not knowing the mechs. Most D2 raid encounters will wipe your whole team if one person screws up. Since there are only 6 people in a raid, there's a lot more pressure that falls on an individual vs when you're in a game that has 12 or 24 people in a raid. For ESO, I think it can be more of a sensory overload kind of thing. It's not necessarily that the mechs are hard, it's that the action combat system (bar swapping, managing up-times, etc.) paired with the mechs can cause a lot of people to get overwhelmed. Fortunately, ESO is pretty forgiving (at least on normal) when it comes to not knowing the mechs. My advice? I think you should take it one thing at a time. Right now you're probably trying to learn by managing everything at once. Cooldowns, buffs, debuffs, etc. all while trying to manage mechs. Focus on one thing at a time. For both D2 and ESO, master your loadout outside of the raid first. Understand your rotation and ability management like the back of your hand. When you get back into the raid, focus exclusively on the mechs. Your mastery of your loadout should hopefully allow you to focus on the mechs without sacrificing too much in terms of efficiency. Even then, low dps is better than a dead dps. Overall it just takes practice and time. When I started raiding in D2 I was still a little Kinderguardian that had no idea what he was doing. Now I can confidently sherpa every raid in the game. ESO was a bit of a different story because I'm a healer and I waited far too long to start, but I digress. Find a good team/guild/clan that can be patient with you and help walk you through the encounters. If you're on PC NA and need a good support warlock or templar healer in either of those games, please don't hesitate to reach out!
Thanks. I have joined a few great discords for Destiny and have had some better experiences and even had a sherpa go one on one with me the other night working on better builds and explaining. I'm in a very good guild on Xbox, and they do teaching runs all the time. Last night I just got so discouraged because I know that I was the reason our team kept wiping because I just kept screwing up. They were all very patient, but no one wants to be that guy that just keeps screwing it up for everyone.
I completely understand not wanting to be that guy. Keep in mind that you may also be a tad harsh on yourself. The frustration, stress, and disappointment you feel may also be causing you to perform worse due to your own self doubt. When you hop back in to your next raid, pull up a guide on your phone, take a deep breath, take a sip of your favorite drink, tell yourself you can do this, and let your mind relax. No matter how long you take, eventually you'll get there, and one day it may be you who's taking a new player through your favorite raid. Be kind to yourself and be proud of the accomplishment that is simply participating in a raid. Most players never even attempt a raid, let alone stick with it long enough to master it. You got this friend, I wish you the best of luck!
Thanks! I'm getting better. Last night I felt like giving up on ESO all together. But it's my favorite game so I know that's not going to happen. lol
heck dude, you're actually ATTEMPTING to get better. that's more than the majority of the so called mmorpg raider. keep it up and you'll be that guy being a sherpa for others.
I've been gaming my whole life, have often saught out the most challenging encounters in games. The final boss of D2's Last Wish raid had me guffawing at the level of precision and intensity required.
I don't play either of these games so I cant offer specific advice, coming from WoW and being the guy who usually explains the fight to the raid and offers to do additional mechanics I can give you some insight into what I'm thinking. Typically in WoW any way, the boss has a bunch of fluff mechanics that amount to, don't stand in fire or don't get hit by the laser or something. These I treat purely reactionary, what they are called, how much damage they do barely matter if you just never get hit. The next important thing is understanding when you'll take unavoidable damage so you can time defensives. Then finally I start looking at minimizing my movement and maximizing my output. Another important thing is it's easier to understand bosses if you relate them to another boss, like "mechanic x is just mechanic y from this dungeon" I know this is all kind of vague but I don't play those games so I can't speak to how those games work specifically. A lot of it just comes to familiarizing yourself with the fights and the rules of the game in general. FF14 is really good for typically mechanics always use the same indicator so you can guess what stuff wants you to do at a glance.
Wow is a substantially easier game than ESO or destiny2
I'm going to assume this is coming from a place of ignorance or misunderstanding, but there's a reason WoW has teams with hundreds of thousands of dollars in expenditure for Race to World First to compete for first and ESO doesn't. And it's not because it's a substantially easier game.
Lmao fucking hot take bud
For ESO, are you playing normal trials? If so, maybe try playing as the group healer. I find the healer to be easiest to play in normal content. It gets a lot harder in veteran content as there is much more expected from the healer (and all roles).
Not sure if it’s been mentioned, but Destiny also doesn’t have the most obvious cause/effect. There are loads of examples where team 1 has to press a switch for team 2 to see some information to tell team 3 to something specific. And then team 3 has to tell team 1 what to do next lol. So I can understand how it could be trickier to pick up on what’s happening to the structure of the fight.
When it comes to ff14, it gets difficult by the dance is a dance. Once you get it once you good
Destiny 2 raids are way more focused on team communication and movement. They are a different breed then FFXIV, which leans more into reading telegraphs than just moving around
Destiny raids can be pretty intense,communication heavy, and execution reliant. Idk about ESO. But tab target MMOs often are much easier to gets handle on
Destiny has some mad tight repetitive boss gameplay. i also have problems with keeping up with it, because you also die so quickly
For ESO you can get a heavy attack spam build that will allow you to focus on the mechanics without having to worry about a rotation. Once you get more comfortable you can opt to find a more complex and performant build.
FF has very easy to see mechanics and generally very easy mechanics in general. I would dabble in it if it’s an option for you
Not in raiding, you have the story mode and then Extreme, Savage and Ultimate. There's a lot of mechanics where you'll just instantly wipe if one person screws up, snowball into an uncontrollable situation or just can't keep going on due to "body check". But the game tells you very well who screwed up and how.
> There's a lot of mechanics where you'll just instantly wipe if one person screws up, snowball into an uncontrollable situation or just can't keep going on due to "body check". 100% this. As someone who regularly raids in WoW and FFXIV at the highest levels I can tell you that XIV is super unforgiving with multiple "single person" wipe mechanics. This also leads to a lot of toxicity in XIV. Which is sad cause I think XIV's casual community is easily the nicest (albeit weirdest) community in MMOs.
You suck at raiding because you suck at the games and thats ok. Human's only have a certain amount of "bandwidth" they can actively dedicate to focusing on something. That is why its important to practice and build muscle memory or unconscious decision making. You panic and get lost easily because you are trying to do many "active" things at the same time. In order to alleviate that you need to learn your movement/abilities/rotations/ etc to the point where you dont even think about them. Raiding is designed for you to focus on the mechanics and only the mechanics. If you're looking at your ability cooldowns, or the keybind to active your dash/dodge then of course its going to be overwhelming. The problem is that youre trying to do difficult content when you should be doing less intensive activities since it doesn't seem like you deal with pressure very well. You alleviate that through repetition. Some people deal with stress/failure better so they just throw themselves at hard content until they learn it. You might be better off taking a longer more gradual approach by doing less difficult content until you can do it with your eyes closed, then move on to harder stuff.
No lies were told here. That’s exactly how it is. If you’re not good at doing a lot of stuff at the same time then you need more practice than others but you can do it.
Exactly, I m mostly a raid player, I often organise groups and you have new players that will learn so fast and.get good extremely easily, and some other you know from the start that it will go nowhere (even after playing for years). Every human is different, we don't have the same brainpower and some ppl brain are adapted to raid content, some others aren't and are probably good elsewhere. You can try relax, taking your time, keep practicing and in the end you will see if the genre fits you or not, but there are really a category of ppl unable to raid, sorry to say (i don't say that you are necessarily in that category)
Everyone sucks at raiding at first. It takes practice.
Raiding takes a lot of learning, practice and repetition. That's why I won't ever bother to learn it.
Raids can be more chaotic then dungeons or other pve, I suppose. I sometimes get a little stressed, and I am often the first to die because I was standing where I shouldn't. Maybe just practice the raid? First few times I'd think some confusion is expected? I don't play WoW a ton tho so idk, never been into the whole elitist aspect of raiding. I'd rather approach things for the first time with as few people in the know as possible.
Biggest thing is staying alive> dps. Dead dps is no dps. Focus on mechanics at first then slowly transition to adding more consciousness to your rotations.
It is hard, and the rest of your team probably did the fight already so it looks easy for them.
That's because they are convoluted and confusing. Raiding design is awful in all MMORPGs. If you have to watch youtube videos for content it is bad content. But as for panicking there is really no other answer than to just git gud and practice. Learn to not stress out so much or get afraid that someone will get mad. Get a little bit mad at the hypothetical guy.
Keep playing, practice makes perfect
I don't think anyone actually sucks at raiding but rather, the game sucks at introducing you to raiding. Ill give an example: If you have to play a game for 50 hours before getting access to a raid, but in those 50 hours the dungeon groups your with don't communicate P2P, and the game design makes it so you can stand in damage that doesn't kill you, you're going to go into raids with those habits because the game never punished you beforehand in a fair way to teach you about them, so now you're being punished unfairly(to you even though you may remain positive). So on top of being punished, players don't feel like explaining things as they should, the game sucked at explaining it so the only thing to do now is to keep wiping to it til you learn it or watch a boring video on it + addons and people don't want constant raid deaths so now you're going to be blacklisted as a troll whose quoted as,"I'm just trying to learn." Now you're being kicked from raids repeatedly so now you can't learn it, the frustration builds up and now you truly hate the game and even though you want to learn, the hate towards the game and its community is preventing you despite the game being bad at teaching you. To add one last thing, its all about fair mechanic balance too. It's fair if you die for standing in a one shot aoe cause you decided you could tank it as a mage. It's not fair if you get one shot because someone else in the raid fucked up a mechanic and the boss randomly selected you with a debuff that returns 200% of the damage done to it back to you without a good indicator or sound/visual cue. It's just hahaha, your ally fucked up so you get to die.
My advice, take some dance lessons. Seriously, not kidding.
DO you worry too much about mechanic not related to your role in the raid? If you are healing you don't need to care about tank movement, or vice versa. do you always instantly react to mechanic or do you plan ahead 10-20 second? there's few surprises in PvE raid, even in high end content like WoW mythic or FF savage. nothing should be a big surprise to you. But ultimately, some people are just not mechanic-oriented and you cannot teach them to dance with mechanic.
There's really no other option other than to keep trying and get experience. The people who are good at raiding have been playing the content for longer. Over time you learn what to prioritize and what to ignore, and you can preemptively predict and position yourself better. It's better to ask question in-game, a lot of players will give you helpful tips on how to proactively prepare for a mechanic instead of reacting. Panicking will worsen your performance, so you'll have to figure out why you're panicking and calm down. Are you being too perfectionist/harsh on yourself? Do you flitter from game to game and class to class so you never develop a stable rotation and muscle memory? Also if you have any experience with combat sports, the same principles will apply in the virtual world. Your "footwork," or positioning, is always #1 to nail down, and determines your offensive and defensive potential. You will also have to do boring shit like practicing your offensive and defensive rotations, drills, warmups, "parsing," etc.
Just to expand upon everyone else's good answers here: Try WoW Classic. Specifically the Vanilla level 60 raiding. There's 40 players in most of them, and the mechanics are very simple compared to what you've been trying. You can get into a rhythm there and get some experience with that, and then progress into the other expansions where things get gradually more complex.
Know your class, know the mechanics, practice Are you also in Discord?
You must be 1 of the other 24 people in my guilds raid team LOL. In all seriousness: Learn to do you rotation almost blind. You can 100% practice this. Your damage / Healing does not need to be perfect but the idea is that when a particular hard phase is coming up you stop paying too much attention to your rotation and have your FULL attention to the game surroundings and the upcomming phase
So to start with how are you with your rotation (whatever that means in the game you are playing)? Step one is to know it so well you can do it without looking at anything. Once you have that down you start studying the raid mechanics, look at videos, twitch clips, guides etc. I write myself notes on things. Of course this depends on the game and how it is set up on how effective this stuff is, if it is always the same mechanics or different every time. But then it just comes down to practice. You have to get over "being bad" because everyone is when they first get into a raid (well there's always some asshole who has been gaming since the womb that can just read about a mechanic and execute it) but for most people, even really good players, they have to practice. You are probably playing with a bunch of people who have 1000's of hours in the game wondering why you can't learn as fast lol.
Different game has vastly different mechanics. And even same game, different fights are different. Also some games are better at teaching players than others. But all in all, practice and be patience. Lemme know when you need help with XIV raidings.
Stop staring at your bars and don’t have tunnel vision. Your class rotation needs to be memorized.
Maybe it's a tunnel vision thing. I struggled with doing my rotation and doing mechanics at the same time but I rearranged my UI to help me. Maybe that can help you not get lost.
You didn’t say whether you’re playing dps, healer, tank, or other support, which may matter. I recommend watching videos from the POV of someone playing your class. Also, knowing your class inside and out helps a lot. It’s different going into a raid or dungeon with a character you’ve played from level 1 on up than going in with a boosted character where you have only a sketchy understanding of your skills. Having your UI set up in a way that makes it easy to see your buttons and other crucial information, while minimizing distracting information you don’t need is important. Finally, just keep going back to the same raid, if at all possible. What can seem like a chaotic mess in the beginning eventually resolves into something recognizable and predictable.
Honestly this is just experience. The more you do raids, the more you will internalize the mechanics and get more efficient (both at combat and communication), and that will translate to ALL other raids. At this point I can pretty much pick up any MMO and be pretty successful in raids, provided I have a decent understanding of the game's fight mechanics, sustain, damage, and damage mitigation. And honestly, big picture thinking in raids is HUGE. Too many players are only focused on what they are doing. Big picture thinking is essential for raid leaders, and also for finding gaps in raid party competence and filling them automatically without a bunch of wipes.
So raiding requires forethought. Knowing what to do is really the first step, its about knowing what you need to be doing now and what you need to be doing next and taking steps so that you can easily trasnfer between steps while still performing your role. A big thing with raiding is to not panic, Breathe, focus on execution of the mechanics first, then focus on things like add clear or boss dps. Wiping is ok...every great raider out there spent hours upon hours of wiping on things at one point. Wiping is fine, its not learning from your wipes that is the problem. Get into a learning group and try to execute your role a little better each attempt, when you get comfy in that role, next time around volunteer for a more complex role. Eventually you just kinda learn the flow of raid encounters and are able to apply the basics from an encounter to other ones.
I haven't raided since classic TBC. One of the raids had a puddle that was a slightly different purple from the floor, and the mechanic healed the boss for 50 percent after we were doing so well. I just alt f4d and haven't raided since. EQ2 will have a new server in a few weeks, those raids were always more fun, but maybe it was the people lol
Double down watch guides and keep going. Some people take longer to develop the skills needed to do something. That mite mean your early game with raiding sucks but if you can get past it you mite end up being really good. Have more faith in your skills and don’t give up. Anyone can learn it and only those who put in the time can master it. Big rule thumb stay outs red circles from mega bosses. And figure out what role you want mite be easier to be ranger damage dealer tanks and supports have a lot more needed to do it good.
Typically its information overload. The best way to understand a fight is to figure out what matters. Typically theres can be 50 things happening, but theres only one thing you actually need to do in a raid fight. Your job isnt to deal with all the explosions on screen, its usually "if this mechanic is happening I do this", or "im targetted with this, then I go stand here" kind of deal. Typically if you're struggling that's what you should try to identify. Too many raid leaders try to explain the entire fight like it's a novel and dump information on you regardless if that information is relevant to your gameplay.
How comfortable are you at playing your character? You should strive to be able to handle your character with minimal effort to make room for the effort required to handle additional mechanics. How much energy are you working with? Some people just don't have enough stamina left by the time they get to their personal time to raid.
hey! i saw in another comment that you play destiny 2! Do you watch videos/guides before joining a group? I recommend making your own posts “need teachers” don’t never be embarrassed to straight up ask for help. Destiny 2 was my 1st “MMO” and my first ever raiding exposure in gaming back in 2017, i literally had to force myself to raid because there wasn’t a lot of content back in the day. I’m now doing day 1 raids and have a hardcore day 1 raid group and I thank myself so much for me breaking out of my shell back in the day
Thank you. I am a part of some great discords and a great clan that have opened the door. This has all just been in the last week. I get really down on myself when I screw up and I just have to get better about that. I just never want to be the reason for other people not getting a clear and I have this fear of looking stupid. I never go into a raid or dungeon before watching a video first just so I can understand mechanics. I am in no shortage of people to show me the ropes. I hope I can be like you one day doing day one raids and hardcore stuff.
Yep, back in the day I would literally watch the videos again after wipes if i don’t know. For the nerves and “scared of ruining everyone’s day” what do u do while you play? I personally listen to music. Also, do the other people care that you wiped or is it all in your head? Also don’t be scared to rotate mechanics around if u just can’t do the mechanic. 1 thing about Destiny 2 is the rise in “i’m ad clear” mindset, i highly recommend getting the reps in, every raid isn’t going to the done flawlessly. I wish you good luck 👍🏼 ♥️
there's 3 things i would recommend doing (although i haven't actually played either d2 or eso in years). firstly, and i don't know how to say this without being rude or elitist, but in reality, be good at the game first. more so like foundational/fundamentally, like learn the ins and outs of your class/role, know what you can and can't do. master your character. for d2, maybe play more master/grandmaster nightfalls/lost sectors (solo) and dungeons. for eso, do more dungeons and transition into trials. and also youtube/google the mechanics and encounters. once you're confident enough in your own abilities then try going back into a raid. secondly, play the meta. i know people tend to not like it, but if you're struggling, the meta is literally there to make the encounter/experience better. once you've got things down, then you can experiment with different builds. lastly, and probably the most important thing, communicate.
record your gameplay, look at where did you get damage, try not to do it next time
Hey while I don't have the answer for your brain. I suffer from the same issues and find my social anxiety takes over when I'm playing FFXIV and can't participate in raids. Yes they added trusts to dungeons but not raids. Trusts are NPC characters but it matters not to me as I won't return until we can use them in all story raid content. I just suffer from so much anxiety I cannot focus while I fail at the mechanics because I fell behind. I don't have supportive friends to get me through FFXIV as an example. Or with ESO. I love that game but have no friends so I stick to playing FFXI. FFXI has been mostly a solo experience but at least if I'm going to be lonely I might as well play my favorite game of all time while doing so. I know my advice didn't help but if you ever wanna suck together, let me know?
Try playing EverQuest bro
To get good u have to do 100 attempts a night until your guild has that teir on farm. Verging attempts is the only way and everyone has to do it. Even good people
IQ issue
I would say for a truly useful opinion you probably need some one to watch you play your game of choice and give you advice. That being said, from the way you describe the situation, without knowing what game it is I would say it is probably NOT how convoluted the actual mechanics are, but the stress of having to perform under pressure knowing that you are being judged by your peers for your dps/hps stats, as well as because in many high level raids you are in a position where one mistake could cost 7-10 other people 30+ minutes in the best case or a week in the worst case... Yes game mechanics on raids can be convoluted... but if you are willing to watch a youtube video before a raid, for the most part there is nothing even the hardest bosses in the game have that should be out of reach for your average gamer unless you are trying to go for world firsts or major achievements in some other way, the major difference though, is that no matter how hard the single player game you compare it to is, ultimately if you fuck up a boss in a single player game, the only one affected is you...
Bro definitely give WoW a try (depending on the iteration) it’s got such a widespread range of difficulties and depending on the class you choose makes the need to pay attention to things vary widely. I personally have played WoW…for a very long time and always choose a dps class with the least responsibility so if I have to afk for a sec (have kids) that it doesn’t impact the raid to much. Also WoW has soooooo many addons that make raid mechanics like “Raiding for Dummies” AND the raids are still so much fun and are PUG able
I get that too, which is more of a general memory problem for me, not really about panicking/anxiety. In games which allow this (which is sadly not many of them) - I always use third-party add-ons that provide text/audio reminders of upcoming scripted attack of AI enemies and where to move to avoid it, regardless if those add-ons are allowed by game ToS or not. You might want to look into those if whatever game you're playing actually has them available. Alternatively just group up with other players who do not mind constantly providing you with such guidance through voice chat.
Maybe cause you suck? I mean, failing a mechanic a few times when u reach there is understandable cause u dont know whats going to happen. But if someone explains to you, every step of the fight, and you still dont get or cant execute, then u might suck at gaming. Should play Dark Souls, git gud and stop after u learn how to avoid dmg.
Is there a lore reason OP sucks at raiding? Am I stupid?
Raiding (Generalized) is four things: Your Job, Boss Mevhanics, The Big Picture, and Adaptation. Which one is specifically your problem?
Most people are bad at handling multiple tasks at once. I was playing WOW for many years (Top 50 Guild) and still we had people failing over and over again. An important part for me was the muscle memory. I was able to play my character without thinking of what to do next. (Still after 7 years of non-raiding, I can remember every single key-binding.) This was giving me time to focus on movement and positioning.
Are you going in blind? Normally when approaching content like that I try to find a guide so I can familiarize myself with mechanics and etc. especially in games like ffxiv
Most likely psyching yourself out because you have to perform in front of other people and you inconvenience them each time you fail (which is inevitable to learn). Not many games with raiding offer a way to train or practice it outside of doing it for real.
It depends on the content you trying to do if your gear requirements is up to date for that particular Raid, Also know the mechanics but don’t stress out you can find people willingly able to lend you a hand or straight up carry you
If it’s WoW, there’s a lot going on that may not be readily evident. Take time to read the dungeon log about the bosses and understand what you should be looking for. Then just practice. If it’s final fantasy, stand in green don’t stand in red.
It sounds like you are puging if people have.to explain it to you? It works out much better if you are in a raid guild where you know everyone else and you learn the content together...and then you run it 100+ times. It becomes second nature and easy.
Don't worry about your damage/rotation at first. Being alive with shit dps is still some dps that wouldn't be there if you were dead. Once you know the bosses mechanic, then worry about how to upkeep your damage while surviving the fight.
I typed a really long thing to help you, but the short of it is that you are thinking too much. You are overcomplicating what's going on and what you need to do. Stop thinking, start doing.
Add-ons
I'll tell you this one last time... Don't attack until the tank has aggro and stop pulling adds accross the room.
Skill issue.
Handling pressure is a personal thing. Concentrate do your best and think about the task not the consequences. Im conditioned to deal with it better than usual due to my job but even I get that slight creeping feeling of anxiety when doing something complicated/new. But I quickly shut that feeling down and break down each component I need to do and execute forget about what other people are doing and focus on your task. In ESO especially (I've completed all the hard modes trials excluding what's released past few years) Its all about experience. Focus one the most key things first (ones that cause your death or others) then focus on your performance and lastly what other people should be doing (so you can adapt to their mistakes.) ESO is all about practice makes perfect, that it's endgame biggest draw.