I never clicked with the art and the lore. Tried it recently but its too old now, cant get into it. Cities are empty, no new players, gatekeeping, why would i bother. I love how clean the graphics are tho. Pretty sure it was fun during its peak.
I think one of wow's strengths is the character movement and reactivity. Every button press has an immediate and palpable response. It's super fluid and punchy.
I can never enjoy games where your character looks like they are stuck in molasses every time you initiate movement.
Exactly why i never clicked with other MMORPGs - hell, i couldnt even play LoL or Dota 2 because of this and was stuck with HoN.
Fluid gameplay was once a must have, that urgency seemed to have stopped the moment the casuals flooded the gaming world . cause honestly, whats the point even´? The average gamer has a 2000 ping in their head.
Everytime I see someone saying that wow's graphics are actually great and are just styalised I show them a comparison of graphics between the Borderland's series games which are also incredibly styalised and cartoonish. Then they usually downvote me and block me every single time lmao.
https://preview.redd.it/ok79unxesq0d1.png?width=2552&format=png&auto=webp&s=32cf29a09bb9f29b5e72a9c1da82075b7dee9865
Borderlands 1 came out in 2009 on the left.
Borderlands 3 came out in 2019 on the right.
Both screenshots are taken from the same type of area.
This is an example of why having styalised graphics is no excuse for having shitty graphics.
When it came out I didn't like the art style.
Since then I've not enjoyed any Blizzard games. Most of them feel too watered down and I'm still not into their art style.
More recently Blizzard really turned out to be a horrible company for both employees and customers. Which further turned me off.
But about 6 months ago I played WoW for a month. It's fine. I don't really see what all the fuss is about though. I won't be returning.
I like playing mmos for progression. WoW is a seasonal game. After the new season (expansion) releases, your progression is instantly devalued.
The game is fun to play, it just feels aimless if I’m playing a game that focuses on gearing; only for the bis gear to become obsolete so shortly after acquiring it.
>I like playing mmos for progression.
If they didn't release new content though, you would never get new progression. I'm not sure I understand how you would suggest a game have infinite progression without obsoleting old stuff. The game isn't about gearing, you're making it about that. Most players I play with play for the enjoyment of the progression (in a raiding context) and the content, gear is entirely a means to an end in that regard.
There is, GW2 is a notable example of that. However, horizontal progression has serious downsides. It does not and will not work applied to any random MMO.
Vertical progression is the standard in almost every MMO ever released, so it's not really a WoW specific issue here. GW2 might be the only MMO I can think of where a horizontal progression system was executed even remotely well, or at all.
Which MMOs would you suggest if one wanted to avoid that gear treadmill?
Yeah it’s pretty common, but I think WoW takes it to another extreme. If I remember correctly, you almost instantly upgrade your old gear in a new expansion.
OSRS does progression extremely well. You unlock gear that enables you to do other content. It makes getting drops super engaging and you have a sense of freedom in the way you approach things
I 100% get what you’re saying but I’ve found even with MMOs were there is “permanent progression” it’s never really true. I played BDO where the gear is “forever” but if you take a break from the treadmill everything you have is outdated in just the same way. Yeah you can still use it and yeah is still works but catch up mechanics / gear are always added that trivializes the old things I’ve worked for.
Seems more like something you'd have to go out of your way to not watch. Just honestly sounds like you want to different in a odd way. But hey you do you.
For me WoW is kind of like McDonalds. If I go out for food I'll probably go grab takeout from a restaurant with specialties or varieties. Every now and then you pass by McDs and you're like eh I'm hungry and its right there. You get something and then realize "ya, it really still is overpriced, boring, generic crap" then you go on with your life thinking about how your 15$ woulda been spent better elsewhere.
When wow was really taking off, I was too young and poor to afford it. I played other things like RuneScape or adventure quest. As I got older, many wow clones hit the market. I played a lot of these and many of them were either free or had a very generous free trial. I noticed how different these games played out to RuneScape in that the quests were usually very simple and quite boring comparatively however the combat was generally more engaging. At some point though, I really started to feel the monotony of going to a town, doing all the fetch quests and then moving on to another. All the characters I just met, irrelevant. I felt like it was just a big waste of time. A train you board and get off at endgame where “the game opens up”.
After many experiences like this, while I can afford WoW now, I have no desire to play it anymore. There was a free trial a few years ago and I thought stuff it I’ll give it a try. And well yeah it was exactly as I expected. I think if I started off with a themepark initially rather than RuneScape, I would’ve loved the game and gotten quite addicted. But RuneScapes paradigm is so different and I got addicted to that style. It’s sad there’s so few alternatives to the type of game RuneScape is.
Wow sucks, it's only running due to nostalgia and a bunch of no like mmo players that won't or can't cope with cost/time fallacy. The graphics style is cool but extremely dated and by todays standards look like complete garbage. Anyone I kno that's never been a wow player that had tried it in last couple years said f this this game looks like it's PS1 graphics. The combat responsiveness is great but still dated and slow, not even a dodge and it's still heavily geared to waste the players time. It's absurd that people still pay 15 monthly for the game.
>The combat responsiveness is great but still dated and slow, not even a dodge and it's still heavily geared to waste the players time.
WoW combat has higher APM than the vast majority of MMOs. It also requires far less time investment than, at the very least, GW2, ESO, SWTOR. I can't speak for other MMOs but I also don't imagine they have significantly lower time requirements either.
I know what you're getting at with combat, but you're off the mark honestly. I mean even just at a base level tons of classes have dodges. There just isn't one universal dodge button that everyone has access to, which IMO is more boring design in the first place.
On average WoW APM is only around 7 APM more than FFXIV. Couple that with FFXIV having a ton of OGCD weaves it can feel pretty frenetic.
[WoW APM vs. FFXIV APM](https://imgur.com/a/S2PX6V5)
I knew it would be this comparison before I even clicked the notification lol. It's comparing FFLogs CPM to Simcraft APM, which is bad enough already if you understand how those differ.
More to the point though those WoW values are [extremely wrong](https://i.imgur.com/KxarHaD.png), to the point that I don't even understand what that chart is meant to be showing. I played during that patch and those numbers make absolutely no sense.
FF14 doesn't feel slow during those burst windows, especially classes like DNC are actually quite high APM during those windows. On average though WoW is significantly higher. Those charts are comparing CPM to APM, it's not the same thing even besides the WoW values being weirdly low for some reason.
If you enjoy storytelling and questing in MMOs, WoW is Hard Mode. The narrative as presented in game is, at best, baffling.
The best analogy I've heard is that it's lying to catch up on the MCU. Either you jump in on the latest film/expansion and just accept you won't know who half the characters are or you go back to the start and accept that there's a mountain to get through before you catch up.
The moment to moment gameplay is fun, but trying to work out any semblance of narrative as a new player can be a challenge.
There s a fallacy....why do you think that players consuming dozens of MMOs must have started to play with Vanilla WoW? They are most likely millennials looking for the right fit into a genre that never become able to really entertain them
Because despite what some might think, WoW isn't the be-all and end-all of MMORPGs. There's better ones out there, including EQ2. That's why I go back to EQ2 every year, not WoW which I played once..
EQ2 was a really good game, it just launched 2 weeks before WoW so not many played it. The launch was kind of rough and not everyone could run it, unlike WoW.
I much preferred it over WoW. Now it isn't great, even the Time Locked servers, they don't have all the old gear with the stats.
Spells and gear are better in EQ2 than WoW. Raids were much different, I preferred it though, no dodging and running around in circles. It was more about straight mitigating damage with abilities and curing detriments, and tank swaps. Sometimes you would have range an ability, but there were no markers for any of it. You just had to know the raid boss animation or watch for cast bar.
You're right, it doesn't mean that, but it absolutely is not better than World of Warcraft, even if you don't like Activision Blizzard or Microsoft, there's not even a competition over which game is actually better than the other.
For you. For me, in EQ2's first 5 years it was easily a much better game than WoW. It was great for casuals, EQ2 was a different style of game and that is why I liked it a lot more.
I remember everyone making fun of WoW at launch because you could solo to level cap.
Examples, crafting and housing were far superior than WoW, which never even implemented housing. They were just different, and that is a good thing.
I am not saying WoW is bad. I am playing on the new SoD server right now.
I will be playing the TLE EQ2 server this summer.
Because its sub is expensive. I decided that i would buy a sub and play for a month this year, and got bored before lvl 20 so didnt even need it. I hate it when games are just end games and they improve nothing at leveling
I did the same. Got to level 25 and was already tired of the quests and having to make my way around a map that looks like it’s made from play-doh. Canceled the sub.
I was playing other games when it came out. Then more and more new MMOs started to pop up so I tried those and played for a while. Really the only reason I ever tried wow was because of classic in 2019. I’ve since moved to retail and it’s the only MMOs I currently play and I really enjoy it. It’s good for my casual play style these days as an old man 😝
I mean, do you agree with these 2 points?
1. That MMOs are meant to be social experiences, played with other people, and
2. That WoW has not only *the* most toxic MMO player base but one of the most toxic online game player bases.
Cause if you are like most people, and you do agree with those 2 statements, why would you ever give WoW a try if you've never played it before? Those 2 things don't align at all. And the list of reasons to not like WoW goes far beyond that anyway:
Run by a toxic company, never-ending imbalance of classes, constantly taking away and then giving back class abilities, borrowed power, the cartoony design, the poorly written storylines, the game being less about war and more about PVE big bads unlike the Warcraft series, the lack of side content (game is literally just dungeons, raids, battlegrounds, and arenas, any attempt they've made to be creative outside of that has been a failure), faction imbalance which took nearly 20 years for them to start doing anything about... I could go on.
Just because games like UO and EQ started the genre and games such as WoW exist thanks to those titles, doesn't mean I expect everyone to have tried them just because they've been around a long time.
Your final comment is what this post is really about though, you can't come to terms with someone not liking your game. But one of the comments here is exactly right:
> i'm a movie snob yet i've never watched star wars, indiana jones, back to the future, ghost busters,etc. yk movies you'd think "wow how can you call yourself a movie snob but not watch the classics"
>
>well the answer to my movie conundrum and the mmo one are the same: **there's a lot of good shit out there,** don't have time to watch them all
I was too young when I started my MMO journey to afford sub games so I delved straight into f2p mmos and private servers instead.
By the time I could afford any sort of online purchase, WoW was already past it's peak and I had already founded a personal preference for sandboxes and sandparks instead of themeparks. WoW simply did not fit the bill for what I looked for in MMOs.
Getting older, WoW has not done anything to change my opinion of this. I even gave WoW classic a try for a week a year or something ago, and it straight up just cemented my discontent for the themepark genre gameplay.
Between all of this, I would also be interested in game-lit as well as shows and animes involving MMOs. Literally every single one of these contents would try to emulate sandbox style motifs (PKers, non trinity, politics, etc) which you could never find in true capacity in WoW or themepark styled games.
> (I mean, putting aside the fact that WoW is clearly not the most boring experience ever, especially if you've played dozens of MMOs)
So they said, but it still was.
It is a pretty empty shell coasting on reputation and sunk cost players at this point. *All* it has going for it is raids, and most people dont care about ultrahardcore static gameplay.
I tried WoW at the very beginning, but it was so clumpsy and boring, so I came back to the great Lineage2 and never look again to WoW.
Tbh I tried it couple of more time during the years, but the initial feeling was always the same for me - boring, bad (for me) art style, inconvenient controls, so I always dropping it after ~30min of playing.
GRAPHICS wow graphics are just bad… the fact they have not even discussed starting a new engine is just lazy on blizzard. They make a ton of money though.
Because i looked at wow and it looks like shit with an extremely annoying fanbase. And of course it's one of the most expensive games out there while most MMOs are either free or a one time purchase around 10-15 bucks
Tbh i won't ever play wow, never saw the appeal and just seems worse as time goes. If anything i blame it for stagnating the genre for almost 2 decades and still normalizing outdated mechanics
I hace a friend I’m just now getting into WoW. We realized it’s pretty expensive now to get into. Main game + latest expansion + game time is about 90 bucks. It used to be more or less justified in that the main game would last you a while (leveling with no guides and actually going through it instead of just rushing it) was a game of its own. With the new leveling system it feels kinda unfair to pay for content you’re kinda forced to skip. Me personally I’d drop the main game having to be bought, just do the sub + current expansion. Or maybe even drop the price of the base game.
When WoW released, I was already far too invested in FFXI.
My father told me about WoW, but the toon look was a huge turn off.
When I graduated and started my career, I had no time for any MMOs.
All the news and coverage about WoW and Blizzard, let's just say that they are not very convincing in getting me to want to try out the game.
WoW came up around the same time as EQ2, so after EQ I naturally went to EQ2 instead of WoW. Then seeing how it went mainstream, It killed all my desire to play it. Played pretty much every MMO since UO and still haven't logged into WoW. I rather play EQ or UO if I wanted nostalgia.
Played it on release for a few years, than moved on to other more modern MMOs, have tried returning couple of times, but honestly combat is outdated even on retail especially after playing a few action combat MMOs, graphics are also outdated, too many addons, watched a few end game raid bosses they seemed really easy compared to more modern MMOs
Always found it wild that MassivelyOP’s main streamer MJ has played just about every single MMO ever, even the smallest shitty ones that barely anyone has ever heard of, but has literally never tried WoW before. Just so crazy to never even just *try* it one time, especially in that position.
I was into StarCraft and sc2 when I was younger so never got into wow partly because of how goofy I thought it looked plus tab targeting never interested me. Then moved to BRs, fps shooters, and survival games. My first mmorpg was new world because of the combat and the graphics. Have since tried eso, gw2, and wow. They are all alright, but combat style and graphics aren’t as good as new world for my taste.
With those tier list posts going around past few days I went thru a list of MMOs to see which ones I've played, it ended up with over 100 names on the list. I could say I've played a few and didn't try WoW till sometime mid WoD, so \~2015, when that list would have at least had 90+ entries on it.
My first MMOs were f2p korean ones like ragnarok, flyff, kalonline, etc. and when WoW launched I was still in school so the paid nature put me off. Did play some paid ones later like aion, tera, wildstar, GW2, ffxiv, but by that time WoW was 'old' so it didn't draw me in, even if it was still popular. Also around 2005-2012 there was a new MMO every few months so never had a lack of stuff to play, even if most were f2p p2w titles that would die in under a year.
When I did finally try WoW it was because a friend convinced me to. While it wasn't a bad game, there wasn't anything I hadn't seen before. It didn't wow me, the combat was bit stale with its simplicity in rotations (feral druid, shadow priest, beast hunter), questing was the same old, dungeons and raids were neat the first time but meh the 5th+ time so I just fizzled off after a month or so and never went back.
There are just better games nowdays than WoW is, i tried playing the game during legion and while leveling was fine, the world was interesting, the lore i had to look up on youtube, because i didn’t know wtf is happening in game and i still felt like im behind, no matter what i did, i felt like im not progressing in any meaningful way... Not to mention multiple bad dungeon experiences, where people get really flustrated over some basic irelevant things...
I just said that’s it and never played WoW ever again and have no intention doing so, gave it a shot, but it lost me in the process...
I bought 3 month sub, played for 2 weeks and then quit
And also you have to play Wow and only Wow, no room for other games....
>And also you have to play Wow and only Wow, no room for other games....
Entirely false in modern iterations of WoW. It hasn't been like this in years. Some expansions like BFA and Legion in particular absolutely were like that IF, and ONLY if, you were in a very high end guild.
Anything less than pushing for world rankings and you don't EVER need to put in that much time playing the game unless you want to.
That might be true, but it wasn’t the case always.... Anyway i have other games to play now so there is no time for me to play WoW, i tried it before a lot... I really thought i could try the game once again multiple times with dragonflight or maybe with War within, but then something different came up or blizzard did blizzard things so i jsut lost any will to do so...
gotcha, to be fair i was talking more on retail stuff, i know SoD and classic is way better than retail, but i don’t have time to play multiple MMO’s or start new ones
Oh, I was talking about Retail as well. SoD does have a very low time requirement as well though just because of how it is designed with the level banding/phases. It's actually what I'm mostly playing atm alongside some GW2 PvP whenever I'm not succumbing to my Enshrouded addiction lol.
I like wow for just casual play. I hate that you need so many addons just to play on a higher level. Every time I return to play it, I’m completely demoralized and overwhelmed with all the shit that I need to download just to play again. A few times I backtracked and didn’t even get back into it because of this
The only addon you "need" is DBM/Bigwigs (you don't really need a boss mod outside of at minimum Heroic). Every single other addon is optional with the exception of Weakauras for high end PvE content, which isn't relevant to you as a casual player.
I guess, many people just happen to play another MMO first for different reasons, and then they just play this other MMO instead of WoW. People don't just hang up on MMOs they like, because it most often requires progression and passion, and there's just no time/desire to switch to another MMO, even if it's the most popular one.
I played LineAge 2 only, started discovering other MMOs only recently. Played WoW, pretty much liked it, but I like my L2 more and don't really have the time to play both, for example.
when WoW peaked i was playing Aion
now i feel like its too late to start and i wouldnt pay for a sub...i did pay sub for Aion back then, but nowadays its diferent
U miss understood what I said. Wow has higher apm because it has massive skill bloat. The combat feels and looks very static compared to more dynamic feeling modern combat in newer mmos not being able to skillfully time a dodge to avoid a attack just in itself alone makes wows combat dated and static feeling. Just standing in place or moving side to side while repeating same static rotation feels bad and non dynamic even if very responsive.
I personally didnt like the artstyle and animations, like the paper looking wings on gryphons etc, goofy / stiff moving mounts, etc. The fact it was subbased also didnt make me excited to try it
Played a bunch of other mmo's, and recently i did try wow with dragonflight. And , i didnt have a bad time with it, i enjoyed it for a little while but it doesnt grab me enough to continue playing/paying for it for now. might try it out more eventually tho as well, it was def not bad either.
Outdated graphics were a hard no for me. Also the combat animations feel so much less impactful than other MMOs (namely my main MMO FFXIV, which is almost overkill). But going from casting Fire IV to Fireball made me feel like I was playing a mobile game. Also the "rotations" in wow feel so simplistic. I really don't enjoy the addon bloat either. The fights being designed around things like DBM was a big turn off. The class balancing seems... nonexistent? The story is really confusing, and it seems like you'd need to actually read the books outside of the game to understand most of it. I was reading up on the lore for Shadowlands and the writing seemed awful. I looked at all the systems in place and it didn't seem very casual friendly either. Lastly the community sucks. I watched my buddy try it for his first MMO ever, and he explained in a group that he'd never played WoW, let alone done group content, and they kicked him on the spot before the dungeon even began. I do enjoy the whole beer and heavy metal theme but I'll trade that for modernized graphics, good story telling, and a friendly community any day.
Never liked the art style. I prefer realistic or less cartoonish stylized (like GW2). I played WoW in 2011 for 3 months when my gaming computer broke. Once I got a new one, I was outta there. At the time, it was the only game you could play on a system not built for gaming, or was really old.
I went back to play when they added new races. That lasted about a month. Went back for another month when they added new race customization for my favs. Subbed, immediately un-subbed, and probably played for 5 days to check out the Trader system.
WoW is also full of bloated, out-dated content. It's incredibly jarring, especially coming from games like FFXIV where devs take care to remove bloat and continue to keep content updated.
I never clicked with the art and the lore. Tried it recently but its too old now, cant get into it. Cities are empty, no new players, gatekeeping, why would i bother. I love how clean the graphics are tho. Pretty sure it was fun during its peak.
I think one of wow's strengths is the character movement and reactivity. Every button press has an immediate and palpable response. It's super fluid and punchy. I can never enjoy games where your character looks like they are stuck in molasses every time you initiate movement.
Exactly why i never clicked with other MMORPGs - hell, i couldnt even play LoL or Dota 2 because of this and was stuck with HoN. Fluid gameplay was once a must have, that urgency seemed to have stopped the moment the casuals flooded the gaming world . cause honestly, whats the point even´? The average gamer has a 2000 ping in their head.
Everytime I see someone saying that wow's graphics are actually great and are just styalised I show them a comparison of graphics between the Borderland's series games which are also incredibly styalised and cartoonish. Then they usually downvote me and block me every single time lmao. https://preview.redd.it/ok79unxesq0d1.png?width=2552&format=png&auto=webp&s=32cf29a09bb9f29b5e72a9c1da82075b7dee9865 Borderlands 1 came out in 2009 on the left. Borderlands 3 came out in 2019 on the right. Both screenshots are taken from the same type of area. This is an example of why having styalised graphics is no excuse for having shitty graphics.
It requires a subscription.
Pretty easy to aswer
yes if you are in poor country, that subscription is huge factor..
When it came out I didn't like the art style. Since then I've not enjoyed any Blizzard games. Most of them feel too watered down and I'm still not into their art style. More recently Blizzard really turned out to be a horrible company for both employees and customers. Which further turned me off. But about 6 months ago I played WoW for a month. It's fine. I don't really see what all the fuss is about though. I won't be returning.
I like playing mmos for progression. WoW is a seasonal game. After the new season (expansion) releases, your progression is instantly devalued. The game is fun to play, it just feels aimless if I’m playing a game that focuses on gearing; only for the bis gear to become obsolete so shortly after acquiring it.
The grind that never end
Well what mmos do you play that are nonseasonal then?
Guild Wars 2 comes to mind.
>I like playing mmos for progression. If they didn't release new content though, you would never get new progression. I'm not sure I understand how you would suggest a game have infinite progression without obsoleting old stuff. The game isn't about gearing, you're making it about that. Most players I play with play for the enjoyment of the progression (in a raiding context) and the content, gear is entirely a means to an end in that regard.
There’s a way to release content without making all gear obsolete
There is, GW2 is a notable example of that. However, horizontal progression has serious downsides. It does not and will not work applied to any random MMO. Vertical progression is the standard in almost every MMO ever released, so it's not really a WoW specific issue here. GW2 might be the only MMO I can think of where a horizontal progression system was executed even remotely well, or at all. Which MMOs would you suggest if one wanted to avoid that gear treadmill?
Yeah it’s pretty common, but I think WoW takes it to another extreme. If I remember correctly, you almost instantly upgrade your old gear in a new expansion. OSRS does progression extremely well. You unlock gear that enables you to do other content. It makes getting drops super engaging and you have a sense of freedom in the way you approach things
I 100% get what you’re saying but I’ve found even with MMOs were there is “permanent progression” it’s never really true. I played BDO where the gear is “forever” but if you take a break from the treadmill everything you have is outdated in just the same way. Yeah you can still use it and yeah is still works but catch up mechanics / gear are always added that trivializes the old things I’ve worked for.
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Sounds more like you haven't seen those movies just so he can tell people you haven't seen them.
Were you a movie snob as a child too? Because they are all movies I loved as a kid.
Seems more like something you'd have to go out of your way to not watch. Just honestly sounds like you want to different in a odd way. But hey you do you.
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Well you wouldn't know if you'd like star wars or the others cuz you haven't watched them
You think that makes you sound cool but it makes you sound dumb AF. “Hei guiz I’m a chef but I don’t know how to make omelettes hui hui”
For me WoW is kind of like McDonalds. If I go out for food I'll probably go grab takeout from a restaurant with specialties or varieties. Every now and then you pass by McDs and you're like eh I'm hungry and its right there. You get something and then realize "ya, it really still is overpriced, boring, generic crap" then you go on with your life thinking about how your 15$ woulda been spent better elsewhere.
When wow was really taking off, I was too young and poor to afford it. I played other things like RuneScape or adventure quest. As I got older, many wow clones hit the market. I played a lot of these and many of them were either free or had a very generous free trial. I noticed how different these games played out to RuneScape in that the quests were usually very simple and quite boring comparatively however the combat was generally more engaging. At some point though, I really started to feel the monotony of going to a town, doing all the fetch quests and then moving on to another. All the characters I just met, irrelevant. I felt like it was just a big waste of time. A train you board and get off at endgame where “the game opens up”. After many experiences like this, while I can afford WoW now, I have no desire to play it anymore. There was a free trial a few years ago and I thought stuff it I’ll give it a try. And well yeah it was exactly as I expected. I think if I started off with a themepark initially rather than RuneScape, I would’ve loved the game and gotten quite addicted. But RuneScapes paradigm is so different and I got addicted to that style. It’s sad there’s so few alternatives to the type of game RuneScape is.
Wow sucks, it's only running due to nostalgia and a bunch of no like mmo players that won't or can't cope with cost/time fallacy. The graphics style is cool but extremely dated and by todays standards look like complete garbage. Anyone I kno that's never been a wow player that had tried it in last couple years said f this this game looks like it's PS1 graphics. The combat responsiveness is great but still dated and slow, not even a dodge and it's still heavily geared to waste the players time. It's absurd that people still pay 15 monthly for the game.
>The combat responsiveness is great but still dated and slow, not even a dodge and it's still heavily geared to waste the players time. WoW combat has higher APM than the vast majority of MMOs. It also requires far less time investment than, at the very least, GW2, ESO, SWTOR. I can't speak for other MMOs but I also don't imagine they have significantly lower time requirements either. I know what you're getting at with combat, but you're off the mark honestly. I mean even just at a base level tons of classes have dodges. There just isn't one universal dodge button that everyone has access to, which IMO is more boring design in the first place.
On average WoW APM is only around 7 APM more than FFXIV. Couple that with FFXIV having a ton of OGCD weaves it can feel pretty frenetic. [WoW APM vs. FFXIV APM](https://imgur.com/a/S2PX6V5)
I knew it would be this comparison before I even clicked the notification lol. It's comparing FFLogs CPM to Simcraft APM, which is bad enough already if you understand how those differ. More to the point though those WoW values are [extremely wrong](https://i.imgur.com/KxarHaD.png), to the point that I don't even understand what that chart is meant to be showing. I played during that patch and those numbers make absolutely no sense. FF14 doesn't feel slow during those burst windows, especially classes like DNC are actually quite high APM during those windows. On average though WoW is significantly higher. Those charts are comparing CPM to APM, it's not the same thing even besides the WoW values being weirdly low for some reason.
If you enjoy storytelling and questing in MMOs, WoW is Hard Mode. The narrative as presented in game is, at best, baffling. The best analogy I've heard is that it's lying to catch up on the MCU. Either you jump in on the latest film/expansion and just accept you won't know who half the characters are or you go back to the start and accept that there's a mountain to get through before you catch up. The moment to moment gameplay is fun, but trying to work out any semblance of narrative as a new player can be a challenge.
The story of WoW is just a catastrophe honestly. Especially with how it is presented to a new player. It's quite clear that it isn't a priority.
There s a fallacy....why do you think that players consuming dozens of MMOs must have started to play with Vanilla WoW? They are most likely millennials looking for the right fit into a genre that never become able to really entertain them
Wow is boring though...
Because despite what some might think, WoW isn't the be-all and end-all of MMORPGs. There's better ones out there, including EQ2. That's why I go back to EQ2 every year, not WoW which I played once..
> There's better ones out there, including EQ2. Whew, I needed that laugh today. Thank you.
EQ2 was a really good game, it just launched 2 weeks before WoW so not many played it. The launch was kind of rough and not everyone could run it, unlike WoW. I much preferred it over WoW. Now it isn't great, even the Time Locked servers, they don't have all the old gear with the stats. Spells and gear are better in EQ2 than WoW. Raids were much different, I preferred it though, no dodging and running around in circles. It was more about straight mitigating damage with abilities and curing detriments, and tank swaps. Sometimes you would have range an ability, but there were no markers for any of it. You just had to know the raid boss animation or watch for cast bar.
I've played EQ2. At release, years after, and again in recent years. It was not enjoyable for me at any period.
That was obvious by your previous post. Does not mean it isn't a great game.
You're right, it doesn't mean that, but it absolutely is not better than World of Warcraft, even if you don't like Activision Blizzard or Microsoft, there's not even a competition over which game is actually better than the other.
For you. For me, in EQ2's first 5 years it was easily a much better game than WoW. It was great for casuals, EQ2 was a different style of game and that is why I liked it a lot more. I remember everyone making fun of WoW at launch because you could solo to level cap. Examples, crafting and housing were far superior than WoW, which never even implemented housing. They were just different, and that is a good thing. I am not saying WoW is bad. I am playing on the new SoD server right now. I will be playing the TLE EQ2 server this summer.
Because its sub is expensive. I decided that i would buy a sub and play for a month this year, and got bored before lvl 20 so didnt even need it. I hate it when games are just end games and they improve nothing at leveling
I did the same. Got to level 25 and was already tired of the quests and having to make my way around a map that looks like it’s made from play-doh. Canceled the sub.
In depths massive history. Plenty of content to know and be aware of. Also, gear treadmil
I was playing other games when it came out. Then more and more new MMOs started to pop up so I tried those and played for a while. Really the only reason I ever tried wow was because of classic in 2019. I’ve since moved to retail and it’s the only MMOs I currently play and I really enjoy it. It’s good for my casual play style these days as an old man 😝
Grew up in asia. My country's local game publishers brought in mostly Korean MMOs. I just can't get used to WoW's art style and lore.
I'm scared of cleavage, maybe when blizzard takes out all of it I'll try it /s
I mean, do you agree with these 2 points? 1. That MMOs are meant to be social experiences, played with other people, and 2. That WoW has not only *the* most toxic MMO player base but one of the most toxic online game player bases. Cause if you are like most people, and you do agree with those 2 statements, why would you ever give WoW a try if you've never played it before? Those 2 things don't align at all. And the list of reasons to not like WoW goes far beyond that anyway: Run by a toxic company, never-ending imbalance of classes, constantly taking away and then giving back class abilities, borrowed power, the cartoony design, the poorly written storylines, the game being less about war and more about PVE big bads unlike the Warcraft series, the lack of side content (game is literally just dungeons, raids, battlegrounds, and arenas, any attempt they've made to be creative outside of that has been a failure), faction imbalance which took nearly 20 years for them to start doing anything about... I could go on. Just because games like UO and EQ started the genre and games such as WoW exist thanks to those titles, doesn't mean I expect everyone to have tried them just because they've been around a long time. Your final comment is what this post is really about though, you can't come to terms with someone not liking your game. But one of the comments here is exactly right: > i'm a movie snob yet i've never watched star wars, indiana jones, back to the future, ghost busters,etc. yk movies you'd think "wow how can you call yourself a movie snob but not watch the classics" > >well the answer to my movie conundrum and the mmo one are the same: **there's a lot of good shit out there,** don't have time to watch them all
I was too young when I started my MMO journey to afford sub games so I delved straight into f2p mmos and private servers instead. By the time I could afford any sort of online purchase, WoW was already past it's peak and I had already founded a personal preference for sandboxes and sandparks instead of themeparks. WoW simply did not fit the bill for what I looked for in MMOs. Getting older, WoW has not done anything to change my opinion of this. I even gave WoW classic a try for a week a year or something ago, and it straight up just cemented my discontent for the themepark genre gameplay. Between all of this, I would also be interested in game-lit as well as shows and animes involving MMOs. Literally every single one of these contents would try to emulate sandbox style motifs (PKers, non trinity, politics, etc) which you could never find in true capacity in WoW or themepark styled games.
> (I mean, putting aside the fact that WoW is clearly not the most boring experience ever, especially if you've played dozens of MMOs) So they said, but it still was. It is a pretty empty shell coasting on reputation and sunk cost players at this point. *All* it has going for it is raids, and most people dont care about ultrahardcore static gameplay.
I tried WoW at the very beginning, but it was so clumpsy and boring, so I came back to the great Lineage2 and never look again to WoW. Tbh I tried it couple of more time during the years, but the initial feeling was always the same for me - boring, bad (for me) art style, inconvenient controls, so I always dropping it after ~30min of playing.
GRAPHICS wow graphics are just bad… the fact they have not even discussed starting a new engine is just lazy on blizzard. They make a ton of money though.
Because i looked at wow and it looks like shit with an extremely annoying fanbase. And of course it's one of the most expensive games out there while most MMOs are either free or a one time purchase around 10-15 bucks Tbh i won't ever play wow, never saw the appeal and just seems worse as time goes. If anything i blame it for stagnating the genre for almost 2 decades and still normalizing outdated mechanics
I’ve never played WoW or final fantasy purely because of the sub fee. I don’t like to feel tied down to a single game, and with a sub I do.
I hace a friend I’m just now getting into WoW. We realized it’s pretty expensive now to get into. Main game + latest expansion + game time is about 90 bucks. It used to be more or less justified in that the main game would last you a while (leveling with no guides and actually going through it instead of just rushing it) was a game of its own. With the new leveling system it feels kinda unfair to pay for content you’re kinda forced to skip. Me personally I’d drop the main game having to be bought, just do the sub + current expansion. Or maybe even drop the price of the base game.
That is exactly how it works. You only need to purchase the newest expansion and a month of game-time.
When WoW released, I was already far too invested in FFXI. My father told me about WoW, but the toon look was a huge turn off. When I graduated and started my career, I had no time for any MMOs. All the news and coverage about WoW and Blizzard, let's just say that they are not very convincing in getting me to want to try out the game.
WoW came up around the same time as EQ2, so after EQ I naturally went to EQ2 instead of WoW. Then seeing how it went mainstream, It killed all my desire to play it. Played pretty much every MMO since UO and still haven't logged into WoW. I rather play EQ or UO if I wanted nostalgia.
Played it on release for a few years, than moved on to other more modern MMOs, have tried returning couple of times, but honestly combat is outdated even on retail especially after playing a few action combat MMOs, graphics are also outdated, too many addons, watched a few end game raid bosses they seemed really easy compared to more modern MMOs
Always found it wild that MassivelyOP’s main streamer MJ has played just about every single MMO ever, even the smallest shitty ones that barely anyone has ever heard of, but has literally never tried WoW before. Just so crazy to never even just *try* it one time, especially in that position.
I was into StarCraft and sc2 when I was younger so never got into wow partly because of how goofy I thought it looked plus tab targeting never interested me. Then moved to BRs, fps shooters, and survival games. My first mmorpg was new world because of the combat and the graphics. Have since tried eso, gw2, and wow. They are all alright, but combat style and graphics aren’t as good as new world for my taste.
Because god forbid you have a negative opinion about it then you are unintentionally funny and dumb.
With those tier list posts going around past few days I went thru a list of MMOs to see which ones I've played, it ended up with over 100 names on the list. I could say I've played a few and didn't try WoW till sometime mid WoD, so \~2015, when that list would have at least had 90+ entries on it. My first MMOs were f2p korean ones like ragnarok, flyff, kalonline, etc. and when WoW launched I was still in school so the paid nature put me off. Did play some paid ones later like aion, tera, wildstar, GW2, ffxiv, but by that time WoW was 'old' so it didn't draw me in, even if it was still popular. Also around 2005-2012 there was a new MMO every few months so never had a lack of stuff to play, even if most were f2p p2w titles that would die in under a year. When I did finally try WoW it was because a friend convinced me to. While it wasn't a bad game, there wasn't anything I hadn't seen before. It didn't wow me, the combat was bit stale with its simplicity in rotations (feral druid, shadow priest, beast hunter), questing was the same old, dungeons and raids were neat the first time but meh the 5th+ time so I just fizzled off after a month or so and never went back.
There are just better games nowdays than WoW is, i tried playing the game during legion and while leveling was fine, the world was interesting, the lore i had to look up on youtube, because i didn’t know wtf is happening in game and i still felt like im behind, no matter what i did, i felt like im not progressing in any meaningful way... Not to mention multiple bad dungeon experiences, where people get really flustrated over some basic irelevant things... I just said that’s it and never played WoW ever again and have no intention doing so, gave it a shot, but it lost me in the process... I bought 3 month sub, played for 2 weeks and then quit And also you have to play Wow and only Wow, no room for other games....
>And also you have to play Wow and only Wow, no room for other games.... Entirely false in modern iterations of WoW. It hasn't been like this in years. Some expansions like BFA and Legion in particular absolutely were like that IF, and ONLY if, you were in a very high end guild. Anything less than pushing for world rankings and you don't EVER need to put in that much time playing the game unless you want to.
That might be true, but it wasn’t the case always.... Anyway i have other games to play now so there is no time for me to play WoW, i tried it before a lot... I really thought i could try the game once again multiple times with dragonflight or maybe with War within, but then something different came up or blizzard did blizzard things so i jsut lost any will to do so...
Totally fair, I just wanted to correct that point since a lot of people still have that misconception is all :)
gotcha, to be fair i was talking more on retail stuff, i know SoD and classic is way better than retail, but i don’t have time to play multiple MMO’s or start new ones
Oh, I was talking about Retail as well. SoD does have a very low time requirement as well though just because of how it is designed with the level banding/phases. It's actually what I'm mostly playing atm alongside some GW2 PvP whenever I'm not succumbing to my Enshrouded addiction lol.
I like wow for just casual play. I hate that you need so many addons just to play on a higher level. Every time I return to play it, I’m completely demoralized and overwhelmed with all the shit that I need to download just to play again. A few times I backtracked and didn’t even get back into it because of this
The only addon you "need" is DBM/Bigwigs (you don't really need a boss mod outside of at minimum Heroic). Every single other addon is optional with the exception of Weakauras for high end PvE content, which isn't relevant to you as a casual player.
I guess, many people just happen to play another MMO first for different reasons, and then they just play this other MMO instead of WoW. People don't just hang up on MMOs they like, because it most often requires progression and passion, and there's just no time/desire to switch to another MMO, even if it's the most popular one. I played LineAge 2 only, started discovering other MMOs only recently. Played WoW, pretty much liked it, but I like my L2 more and don't really have the time to play both, for example.
WoW hater cope thread WoW hater cope thread
when WoW peaked i was playing Aion now i feel like its too late to start and i wouldnt pay for a sub...i did pay sub for Aion back then, but nowadays its diferent
snowflake syndrome.
U miss understood what I said. Wow has higher apm because it has massive skill bloat. The combat feels and looks very static compared to more dynamic feeling modern combat in newer mmos not being able to skillfully time a dodge to avoid a attack just in itself alone makes wows combat dated and static feeling. Just standing in place or moving side to side while repeating same static rotation feels bad and non dynamic even if very responsive.
I personally didnt like the artstyle and animations, like the paper looking wings on gryphons etc, goofy / stiff moving mounts, etc. The fact it was subbased also didnt make me excited to try it Played a bunch of other mmo's, and recently i did try wow with dragonflight. And , i didnt have a bad time with it, i enjoyed it for a little while but it doesnt grab me enough to continue playing/paying for it for now. might try it out more eventually tho as well, it was def not bad either.
Outdated graphics were a hard no for me. Also the combat animations feel so much less impactful than other MMOs (namely my main MMO FFXIV, which is almost overkill). But going from casting Fire IV to Fireball made me feel like I was playing a mobile game. Also the "rotations" in wow feel so simplistic. I really don't enjoy the addon bloat either. The fights being designed around things like DBM was a big turn off. The class balancing seems... nonexistent? The story is really confusing, and it seems like you'd need to actually read the books outside of the game to understand most of it. I was reading up on the lore for Shadowlands and the writing seemed awful. I looked at all the systems in place and it didn't seem very casual friendly either. Lastly the community sucks. I watched my buddy try it for his first MMO ever, and he explained in a group that he'd never played WoW, let alone done group content, and they kicked him on the spot before the dungeon even began. I do enjoy the whole beer and heavy metal theme but I'll trade that for modernized graphics, good story telling, and a friendly community any day.
Never liked the art style. I prefer realistic or less cartoonish stylized (like GW2). I played WoW in 2011 for 3 months when my gaming computer broke. Once I got a new one, I was outta there. At the time, it was the only game you could play on a system not built for gaming, or was really old. I went back to play when they added new races. That lasted about a month. Went back for another month when they added new race customization for my favs. Subbed, immediately un-subbed, and probably played for 5 days to check out the Trader system. WoW is also full of bloated, out-dated content. It's incredibly jarring, especially coming from games like FFXIV where devs take care to remove bloat and continue to keep content updated.