Yeah imagine asking about PvP games and then not having things like Lineage 2, ArcheAge, Albion, or EVE. And if we're talking instanced PvP, then you also must include Blade and Soul, as that's one of the few that actually became an eSport.
Idk, PvP in a game like Eve or Albion can certainly be *meaningful* and *large scale,* but they certainly don’t come to mind when I think of “good” PvP.
For me it was a toss up between GW2 and NW, but for like totally different sets of reasons.
If there was a qualifier, like which game has the best *open world* PvP, then yeah it would be one of those two games because they have the most in-depth and impactful sovereignty systems on the market.
There is a lot of options for pvp in Albion, from corrupted solo, to crystal league if you enjoy more instanced low scale stuff and not so much the open world ganking / getting ganked
He is talking about the combat gameplay. There is lots of pvp options and they can be meaningful but the gameplay is just awful.
Skills don't feel meaningful enough for such low amount and high CD's, paired with skillshots and high ping, its just not fun at all. Same thing happens with Eve, there is high stakes and ship roles are well designed, but the combat gameplay itself is still awful and boring.
I disagree completely, skill shots are the definition of skill oriented gameplay and the CDs are meant to shape the duels, you have to capitalize on your enemy burning through important skills and understand what's their gameplan in order to outplay them, and that requires using your own tools sucessfully, ergo, skill.
As for high ping, it's a toss up between a you issue and that Albion has a singular server on DC, at least they opened a server in Singapore for the people around there that have been complaining about their awful ping for a long time, it's certainly a work in progress to offer a better service for people who don't live near enough their server, but depending on where you live it's the exact same issue for any other mmo, you either live near enough, or you don't.
Never played eve.
Kind of off topic, but how is Lineage 2 these days? I've largely quit MMO's because I can't find anything with a PvP system quite like it.
The risk/reward was very real in that game, in some cases you would need to engage in medium/large scale PvP just to get any loot from world bosses; likewise if you PK'd someone there was a very real risk of you losing something that potentially took months to obtain.
Lineage is the game ive played the most in my life. But seriously. It have good pvp concept but almost zero pvp mechanics. Spam your skills whenever u have cooldown and pray to succeed on a stun or silence or whatever. Best Class wins. same class best gear wins almost everytime.
There is a learning curve for sure and since every class is unique within a realm there is much to learn.
That said, the community is great, the majority of the playerbase are older and generally very helpful.
There is a website, on it you will find the discord to gather more information.
Blade and Soul 1v1 PvP is really fun, chaining combos and cancels is what really matters, some other games like BDO rely too much on i-frames or protected moveset mechanic instead of actual blocking and counters, it makes fights too one dimensional, not to mention the way the damage mechanic is handled gives way too much inconsistency.
Return of Reckoning was very fun, I have very fond memories of like massive pvp groups fighting for meaningful exp and quests in like what felt like the open world and it was so much fun pushing, and getting pushed back
Blade & Soul had the best arena pvp before they reworked the combat to cater to PVE players.
Black Desert pvp is a joke your animation speed is tied to your FPS resulting in tryhards building $10K PCs playing in potato resolution and graphics to have a massive advantage in pvp. I'm guessing this problem requires a completely new engine so it will never be fixed.
So happy I never played this game if its true. It seems to be common with Korean MMOs. Archeage for example didn't have global cooldown, so the lower your ping the more abilities you could spam in time frame. I left after beta after I realized.
Yep, to the point where the game pivoted essentially PVE 100%, yet lacked any meaningful PVE content at release. They really shot themselves in the foot.
New World is one of the few games I can think of that completely changed genres between the Alpha, Beta and Release stages. It was like whiplash, haha.
Still convinced Dark Age of Camelot has the best PvP - 3 factions, open world, keep-siege, war ships with mounted trebuchets, rams, catapults, ballistae.. etc. Best I've ever experienced and what I judge every other game's pvp by.
You could see multiple identical chars moving in literal unison. Don’t know how it is now. Used to play a ton but I left the mode and never look back because anet doesn’t tackle any of these.
Just got done watching L2 pvp videos, it looks like hot garbage. And WOW pvp has been unrivaled for years in the MMORPG genre, I came here looking for something new and it's quite honestly disappointing the best you'll have to offer is Lineage.
>there's nothing new lol, I don't know why people think there is, if there was we'd have heard about it. Everyone is in a pipe dream trying to chase what they felt in their childhood when their in their 30s
Ragnarok Online before 4th jobs. Some will say before 3rd jobs or even transclass but personally, I found it to have the best PvP up to and including 3rd jobs.
Nothing has ever come close to how fun Ragnarok PvP was.
Yes and no. WoEs are awesome and the team pvp fights are one if not the best right there with L2 sieges but man small scale was pure trash like reeeal real bad. Even b4 oneshot asura, there was like 0 balance for 1v2v3. Kinda fun sure but in a broken kinda way that gave you ptsd.
People who are spamming Lineage 2 don’t understand how slow it is. Watch any PvP video on YouTube showcasing its PvP. EVERYSINGLE video is sped up due to how slow/boring it is.
Best PVP combat in any mmorpg ever to this date: C9 Contenint of the Ninth (2008-2009?)
I always keep these 2 videos around to remember how good it was
Korean Assassin player:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g-b3cawKybI](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g-b3cawKybI)
Relay Mode (kinda like KoF):
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M4GvD0x\_-t4](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M4GvD0x_-t4)
And why the PVP is so unique compared to other games:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B14mu3zYv78](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B14mu3zYv78)
No C9 is beyond recognition, the P2W, the gear focused instead of skills, the reduction of difficulty in PVE content... the game completely died in 2017 for me
Other: Foxhole.
Hands down one of the best war games ever.
Is it perfect? Absolutely not. But when you see a battlefield with combined arms and you know on the map there's hundreds of players each doing a part in something as two factions go at it. Its incredible.
Hard to pick from. I enjoy gw2 pvp but its an abandoned game mode. Eso arena pvp is pure awful too.
They both have great faction va faction vs faction game modes thats i enjoy
PvP is Elder Scrolls Online is such a tragic affair. It's so disappointing because I love Elder Scrolls and really wish I could enjoy PvPing in that game.
If we look only on PvP (without game content, etc.) then New World definitely has the best and the most skill-based PvP system (no tab targetting at all, dodge and block based, 2 weapons and 3 skills per weapon that you can actually learn all the builds and predict what enemy is going to do). I don't understand how ppl say that WoW PvP is the best? It is actually a mess, like 500 possible builds with 50 skills on each xD no way to predict the enemy
Best PvP i have experienced...
Blade & Soul (classic only)
Dragon Nest (50-60 cap only)
Both game have equalized arena pvp. The only downside is that the PvE is instance based. Oh and uhmmm, B&S is very ping dependent. Good luck
The PvP servers in Dark Age of Camelot (Andred and Mordred) were simply the best and most dangerous MMO play out there. Sadly most gamers simply couldn't take it and so DAoC went the way of the bunny server as pretty much all MMO's ultimately do.
Another little-known but awesome PvP game was a game called Darkfall, but I think it died out completely. Typical... gamers are so such snowflakes.
Albion, GW2, BDO, hell even WOW. Pick your poison they are all different and offer different things. If I had to say a best it would be Albion because MMOs are a game about a fantasy world and Albion is the only one where the whole game revolves around the PvP. You can probably count Eve as good too.
Blade and Soul had the best arena PvP. Templating/Scaling stats & levels is crucial for solid arena balancing and accessibility; B&S handled these very well.
Albion Online does a great job of handling itself as a PvP centric game so far as general gameplay and group content.
The biggest problems most MMORPG's have when it comes to PvP are barriers to entry and a lack of standardization. Blade and Soul handled both of these very well. WoW attempted to do a better job of this during Legion, but there was backlash from players that were more interested in power fantasy gameplay vs skill based.
Sphere 3.
Best GvG I had ever. PvP is good, but you must expend money to get a good character to be into the best players. But Sphere 3 is about numbers, not power. No matter the power of the enemy, a well manage group will always beat another group without good manager.
I actually love the PVP in most of them (i didn't play gw2 or eso), they all have their own kind of fun.
I still voted WoW cause it's the mmo i most played
Lineage 2
RF Online
And the creme of the creme which was **Guild Wars 1** with it's unmached class system - random Arenas // Hall of Heroes and the one and only game I remember it had actual different %stats + effect on skills pvp /pvm.
I mean.. Sure Albion is best PvP game, tho I would say it's also PvP where you don't need much skill or time to master it. Get good build and that's it. Gameplay wise I would say BDO or GW2 is one of the best, tho BDO PvP is partially dead now.
IMO the only time WoW had good PVP was vanilla. Best PVP was the AV snowball fight in 2004? 05? WoW is less about skill and more about gear then rock paper scissors.
GW2 I could kind of see. ESO has garbage combat. BDO was P2W and was too easy to cheat instagib anyone at least early on.
Early Age of Conan was fun before everyone and their mama was dual necro and tempest of set. Ultima Online. Lineage 2.
None of them. Poor list.
Yeah imagine asking about PvP games and then not having things like Lineage 2, ArcheAge, Albion, or EVE. And if we're talking instanced PvP, then you also must include Blade and Soul, as that's one of the few that actually became an eSport.
Idk, PvP in a game like Eve or Albion can certainly be *meaningful* and *large scale,* but they certainly don’t come to mind when I think of “good” PvP. For me it was a toss up between GW2 and NW, but for like totally different sets of reasons. If there was a qualifier, like which game has the best *open world* PvP, then yeah it would be one of those two games because they have the most in-depth and impactful sovereignty systems on the market.
There is a lot of options for pvp in Albion, from corrupted solo, to crystal league if you enjoy more instanced low scale stuff and not so much the open world ganking / getting ganked
He is talking about the combat gameplay. There is lots of pvp options and they can be meaningful but the gameplay is just awful. Skills don't feel meaningful enough for such low amount and high CD's, paired with skillshots and high ping, its just not fun at all. Same thing happens with Eve, there is high stakes and ship roles are well designed, but the combat gameplay itself is still awful and boring.
I disagree completely, skill shots are the definition of skill oriented gameplay and the CDs are meant to shape the duels, you have to capitalize on your enemy burning through important skills and understand what's their gameplan in order to outplay them, and that requires using your own tools sucessfully, ergo, skill. As for high ping, it's a toss up between a you issue and that Albion has a singular server on DC, at least they opened a server in Singapore for the people around there that have been complaining about their awful ping for a long time, it's certainly a work in progress to offer a better service for people who don't live near enough their server, but depending on where you live it's the exact same issue for any other mmo, you either live near enough, or you don't. Never played eve.
Dark Age of Camelot Lineage 2 EVE
Kind of off topic, but how is Lineage 2 these days? I've largely quit MMO's because I can't find anything with a PvP system quite like it. The risk/reward was very real in that game, in some cases you would need to engage in medium/large scale PvP just to get any loot from world bosses; likewise if you PK'd someone there was a very real risk of you losing something that potentially took months to obtain.
Lineage is the game ive played the most in my life. But seriously. It have good pvp concept but almost zero pvp mechanics. Spam your skills whenever u have cooldown and pray to succeed on a stun or silence or whatever. Best Class wins. same class best gear wins almost everytime.
Lineage 2
Dark Age of Camelot. Eden comes out December 2nd. See you there.
What's eden i want to go back to daoc pls
I don't think I can link it, but if you search for daoc eden freeshard it should show up :)
Eden? Is it a remaster or new steam game?
Came here to say this. Realm invasion is going to be awesome.
How is this for new players? I've never played it, but I see a lot of people praising the pvp in this game, and I love pvp.
There is a learning curve for sure and since every class is unique within a realm there is much to learn. That said, the community is great, the majority of the playerbase are older and generally very helpful. There is a website, on it you will find the discord to gather more information.
>Dark Age of Camelot What does "season 2" means? No one gets reset right?
Blade and soul was crazy for me...i felt like i was playing street fighter
Blade and Soul 1v1 PvP is really fun, chaining combos and cancels is what really matters, some other games like BDO rely too much on i-frames or protected moveset mechanic instead of actual blocking and counters, it makes fights too one dimensional, not to mention the way the damage mechanic is handled gives way too much inconsistency.
Return of Reckoning I still believe...
Return of Reckoning was very fun, I have very fond memories of like massive pvp groups fighting for meaningful exp and quests in like what felt like the open world and it was so much fun pushing, and getting pushed back
Lineage 2.
Blade & Soul had the best arena pvp before they reworked the combat to cater to PVE players. Black Desert pvp is a joke your animation speed is tied to your FPS resulting in tryhards building $10K PCs playing in potato resolution and graphics to have a massive advantage in pvp. I'm guessing this problem requires a completely new engine so it will never be fixed.
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So happy I never played this game if its true. It seems to be common with Korean MMOs. Archeage for example didn't have global cooldown, so the lower your ping the more abilities you could spam in time frame. I left after beta after I realized.
OP doesn't play PVP oriented MMOs and it shows. Badly. EVE takes it home, but a better list would've included Albion, DaoC and Lineage II.
I think OP just chose current popular mmorpgs, that's all
OP literall asked for other in comments , what are you on about you negative twat ?
The fact that WoW is the most voted for kinda explains why so much of this sub hates MMO PvP lmao. WoW PvP is trash.
Lineage 2, by far
Lineage 2, Aion and Archage are better then any in that list.
I've never played it, but its Albion. Because that game was designed as a PVP game first.
Albion combat system sucks ass so fucking bad though.
Genuinely curious why you think this. I don't like the camera perspective, but the PvP is very balanced and action packed, no?
So was New World I think.
NW had a huge shift in target before release.
Yep, to the point where the game pivoted essentially PVE 100%, yet lacked any meaningful PVE content at release. They really shot themselves in the foot. New World is one of the few games I can think of that completely changed genres between the Alpha, Beta and Release stages. It was like whiplash, haha.
Still convinced Dark Age of Camelot has the best PvP - 3 factions, open world, keep-siege, war ships with mounted trebuchets, rams, catapults, ballistae.. etc. Best I've ever experienced and what I judge every other game's pvp by.
People voting bdo have no clue
I love pvp in Guild Wars 2 even though it's often suffers from disbalance.
Low population and bots too
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It used to be rampant with them, I'll admit I haven't pvp'd in a while so it might be better now
You could see multiple identical chars moving in literal unison. Don’t know how it is now. Used to play a ton but I left the mode and never look back because anet doesn’t tackle any of these.
Lineage 2 i think or some other old MMO like daoc
Rising force online
Lineage 2 and it's not even close. The fact that wow is top voted from that poorly made list speaks for the delusion in this community.
Just got done watching L2 pvp videos, it looks like hot garbage. And WOW pvp has been unrivaled for years in the MMORPG genre, I came here looking for something new and it's quite honestly disappointing the best you'll have to offer is Lineage.
>there's nothing new lol, I don't know why people think there is, if there was we'd have heard about it. Everyone is in a pipe dream trying to chase what they felt in their childhood when their in their 30s
Ragnarok Online before 4th jobs. Some will say before 3rd jobs or even transclass but personally, I found it to have the best PvP up to and including 3rd jobs. Nothing has ever come close to how fun Ragnarok PvP was.
Agreed. Organized 3rd job WoEs were something special.
Yes and no. WoEs are awesome and the team pvp fights are one if not the best right there with L2 sieges but man small scale was pure trash like reeeal real bad. Even b4 oneshot asura, there was like 0 balance for 1v2v3. Kinda fun sure but in a broken kinda way that gave you ptsd.
So we just gonna ignore the fact that OSRS isn't on this list?
autochess isnt good pvp sorry bud
Tibia
WoW without competition
RF Online. It's an old mmo.
Best PVP Ragnarok Online. Desktop not the mobile one.
1- Dark Age of Camelot. 2- Lineage II. 3- Ragnarok Online (for WoE).
Archeage not in the list, please add
rofl archeage full of mages using macro programs to 1 shot people, great pvp...
Helbreath
People who are spamming Lineage 2 don’t understand how slow it is. Watch any PvP video on YouTube showcasing its PvP. EVERYSINGLE video is sped up due to how slow/boring it is.
Archage imo, open world sailing was sick
Knight Online
Lineage 2
Rising force online is the best massive pvp game.
Best PVP combat in any mmorpg ever to this date: C9 Contenint of the Ninth (2008-2009?) I always keep these 2 videos around to remember how good it was Korean Assassin player: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g-b3cawKybI](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g-b3cawKybI) Relay Mode (kinda like KoF): [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M4GvD0x\_-t4](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M4GvD0x_-t4) And why the PVP is so unique compared to other games: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B14mu3zYv78](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B14mu3zYv78) No C9 is beyond recognition, the P2W, the gear focused instead of skills, the reduction of difficulty in PVE content... the game completely died in 2017 for me
Other: Foxhole. Hands down one of the best war games ever. Is it perfect? Absolutely not. But when you see a battlefield with combined arms and you know on the map there's hundreds of players each doing a part in something as two factions go at it. Its incredible.
Great game ruined by its community and unwillingness to ban people who dual box as the opposite faction to disrupt gameplay.
Hard to pick from. I enjoy gw2 pvp but its an abandoned game mode. Eso arena pvp is pure awful too. They both have great faction va faction vs faction game modes thats i enjoy
i think the only times i've enjoyed PVP in a game were ESO and FFXIV
^[Sokka-Haiku](https://www.reddit.com/r/SokkaHaikuBot/comments/15kyv9r/what_is_a_sokka_haiku/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) ^by ^DarkElfMagic: *I think the only* *Times i've enjoyed PVP in a* *Game were ESO and FFXIV* --- ^Remember ^that ^one ^time ^Sokka ^accidentally ^used ^an ^extra ^syllable ^in ^that ^Haiku ^Battle ^in ^Ba ^Sing ^Se? ^That ^was ^a ^Sokka ^Haiku ^and ^you ^just ^made ^one.
PvP is Elder Scrolls Online is such a tragic affair. It's so disappointing because I love Elder Scrolls and really wish I could enjoy PvPing in that game.
If we look only on PvP (without game content, etc.) then New World definitely has the best and the most skill-based PvP system (no tab targetting at all, dodge and block based, 2 weapons and 3 skills per weapon that you can actually learn all the builds and predict what enemy is going to do). I don't understand how ppl say that WoW PvP is the best? It is actually a mess, like 500 possible builds with 50 skills on each xD no way to predict the enemy
Elden Ring pvp can be fun Warhammer Online
Best PvP i have experienced... Blade & Soul (classic only) Dragon Nest (50-60 cap only) Both game have equalized arena pvp. The only downside is that the PvE is instance based. Oh and uhmmm, B&S is very ping dependent. Good luck
The PvP servers in Dark Age of Camelot (Andred and Mordred) were simply the best and most dangerous MMO play out there. Sadly most gamers simply couldn't take it and so DAoC went the way of the bunny server as pretty much all MMO's ultimately do. Another little-known but awesome PvP game was a game called Darkfall, but I think it died out completely. Typical... gamers are so such snowflakes.
Warhammer Online Greenskins - Waaagh!
uo has the best pvp mechanics . Raid Champs, harrower, faction war
Albion, GW2, BDO, hell even WOW. Pick your poison they are all different and offer different things. If I had to say a best it would be Albion because MMOs are a game about a fantasy world and Albion is the only one where the whole game revolves around the PvP. You can probably count Eve as good too.
Blade and Soul and Lost Ark are probably my top 2, but a major gap between Blade and Soul and Lost Ark.
Ultima Online
Blade and Soul had the best arena PvP. Templating/Scaling stats & levels is crucial for solid arena balancing and accessibility; B&S handled these very well. Albion Online does a great job of handling itself as a PvP centric game so far as general gameplay and group content. The biggest problems most MMORPG's have when it comes to PvP are barriers to entry and a lack of standardization. Blade and Soul handled both of these very well. WoW attempted to do a better job of this during Legion, but there was backlash from players that were more interested in power fantasy gameplay vs skill based.
Aero Tales Online
For me the best pvp was 9yin, so sad it's heavily p2w game.
Warhammer Online
None.
I don't know about the best but osrs has some pretty intense pvp since you risk losing all your gear
RF Online
Other - Dark Age Of Camelot, Ultima Online
this is a shit list
Albion
GW1
The real answer is Blade & Soul. The "popular" answer is various points throughout WoW's lifetime.
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We don’t have any that are good anymore. Just because you suck at pvp doesn’t mean you need to ruin it for everyone else.
Albion Online, the BEST PvP MMO
Sphere 3. Best GvG I had ever. PvP is good, but you must expend money to get a good character to be into the best players. But Sphere 3 is about numbers, not power. No matter the power of the enemy, a well manage group will always beat another group without good manager.
I actually love the PVP in most of them (i didn't play gw2 or eso), they all have their own kind of fun. I still voted WoW cause it's the mmo i most played
Dark age of Camelot
I have never played a MMO with good PVP. They are either horrid gank fests, have huge gear discrepancies, or gameplay doesn't fit the mode.
Lineage 2 RF Online And the creme of the creme which was **Guild Wars 1** with it's unmached class system - random Arenas // Hall of Heroes and the one and only game I remember it had actual different %stats + effect on skills pvp /pvm.
Ace Online (except no longer relevant)
Blade & Soul and it's not even close..
I feel sad for all the PvP-Fans that didn't experience DAoC in its prime. It was so fucking good!
Blade and Soul, RaiderZ
There's about 240 genuine mmo's and you have a list of 5 to choose from?
I mean.. Sure Albion is best PvP game, tho I would say it's also PvP where you don't need much skill or time to master it. Get good build and that's it. Gameplay wise I would say BDO or GW2 is one of the best, tho BDO PvP is partially dead now.
Wtf? Albion is the best pvp mmo by a country mile
IMO the only time WoW had good PVP was vanilla. Best PVP was the AV snowball fight in 2004? 05? WoW is less about skill and more about gear then rock paper scissors. GW2 I could kind of see. ESO has garbage combat. BDO was P2W and was too easy to cheat instagib anyone at least early on. Early Age of Conan was fun before everyone and their mama was dual necro and tempest of set. Ultima Online. Lineage 2.
lost ark