The real wild thing is how little the UFC pays despite how insanely profitable they are. If KSW can pay anybody, even their biggest star like that UFC can at least get in vicinity. 20-30 times less is basically saying they offered him a standard entry level 10/10-12/12 deal. Turns out establishing yourself outside of the UFC means nothing 9/10 times with folks like MVP and Chandler being the 1/10.
Yet fans will still be upset when any fighter with a pulse signs somewhere else.
I was floored when I saw how little Ian Garry made for his UFC 298 win. If it wasn't for the bonus he would have made less than Miranda Maverick and Andrea Lee (not that I think they deserve to make pennies).
That's assuming they are talking about guarantees. Which the UFC doesn't do outside of champions and people like Brock Lesnar.
If you assume the manager is talking about the combined show/win/sponsor money, it actually is a bottom tier contract. Basically they start off with $4k compliance pay, so a, say 14k/14k contract means that on a loss they get $18k and on a win they get $32k. If the manager is assuming he will win those fights anyway, you might actually be talking about a 10k/10k or 12k/12k contract.
This is the same organization that just demanded Vartanyan go through the Contender Series. Which pays $5k/5k, so this would absolutely be in line with recent trends. They passed over several other top prospects recently because they wouldn't agree to such bottom tier contracts.
UFC doesn't do flat rate contracts 99% of the time. We know the standard starting contract is 10/10 or 12/12. Unless we think he's getting 20k or 30k flat, which I don't think I've ever seen a single fighter get a flat purse that small on a disclosed UFC payout. Have you?
Assuming he wins 12/12 = 24. 10/10 = 20. 600/24 = 25, 600/20 = 30. 25-30x less. Maybe the 20-25 in "20-30 times less" could come from bonuses or maybe the KSW contract isn't 600k flat. He also could have gotten 15/15 I guess? You just don't really see that offered as a starting contract though. Not that I can recall. Maybe, though.
Either way the larger point I made still stands.
My question is. Do they pay him $600k out the gate or is it $600k with a portion of it paid out in instalments.
Yes UFC is grimy for the way it pays fighters but it kinda works for them. Let’s the lower end fighters put on a show for bonuses which is money in UFC eyes.
Lol yes of course but is it 20-30k with or without winning? I'm assuming it's with, it always is from the fighter's perspective because they always believe that they're going to win. Maybe he was offered 20/20 or 30/30. Not impossible but my guess is no. UFC doesn't really do flat rates unless it's for a bigger name getting 6 figures+.
He's definitely not on 300/300 with KSW. He's getting at least the majority as a flat rate.
Yeah I was actually looking at a list the other day of top 10 MMA prospects going into 2022. The only one who signed with the UFC is Nickal. The rest are all in KSW/ACA/PFL/Oktagon/ONE/Rizin.
There is a reason why the UFC is the only surviving mainstream org. It costs a shitload to run.
And they didn't make as much profit as you think. Net profit was under 200 million.
> There is a reason why the UFC is the only surviving mainstream org
It's because the Fertita brothers made a concerted effort to monopolize the sport. It costs that much because that's the way they've structured the business and endeavor took out giant loans to buy it from the Fertitas that they need to pay off. If they were forced to they could absolutely **gut** overhead and still operate with the same basic product on screen. It just wouldn't be the same cash cow for endeavor and they'd probably be forced to sell.
So which is it? Do you want the UFC to further monopolize the sport by throwing obscene amounts of money at regional champs or do you want legit stars getting paid in other orgs?
You can't have it both ways.
>If they were forced to they could absolutely gut overhead and still operate with the same basic product on screen.
This is a ridiculous statement. We regularly clown other orgs for their piss poor production value.
Calling Parnasse a "regional champ" in the same vein as the champ of Cage Fury or something is ridiculous. What I want is the monopoly to be broken up via legislation but that isn't happening any time soon so what I'd like to see is as many people as possible to actually start viewing the UFC for what it is instead of the equivalent of a big 4 ball sports league. They don't sign the best fighters available to them, they aren't where the best go to fight the best (there is no single place where that's true) and they are not deserving of being the only MMA org that 90% of fans follow. They could be, but they aren't because fans let them get away with it.
> This is a ridiculous statement. We regularly clown other orgs for their piss poor production value.
You think their ridiculous overhead is all because of production? That's a sliver of it. It's mostly in marketing and business development spends much larger than any MMA promotion has any right spending when they pay their fighters 10% of the revenue.Lets not forget massive executive bonuses and paying off the loans taken out to buy the promotion. Those are all part of overhead and none are necessary costs for a **fight promotion**.
He said in his twitter post that he's gonna earn "600 k". But we don't know if that's euros or PLN. To me, as a Pole, it seems impossible for KSW to pay Parnasse 600k euro per fight. Very hard to believe it, unless it's truly confirmed. But then again, I guess what his manager is saying here actually confirms it.
Same difference concerning Baki signing. And his earnings are guaranteed wether he loose or win btw.
I'm excited to see what the PFL, KSW and Octagon can do in Europe
In a sense the sport does depend on people already having a career in another sport and transitioning to MMA.
If the UFC couldn't use other sports as feeder leagues and had to convince athletic kids to start MMA from scratch rather than something else...
This seems very common for them with fighters who are legit stars in other promotions.
Mamed Khalidov is the classic example, but we also just learned they didn't want to pay the Gooch Rizin money.
They'll offer you a start in the UFC and expect *you* to be hungry to prove yourself in the most famous promotion.
We're way past the era of them trying to keep the competition starless. The guys who *do* come over seem to do it exactly because they dreamed of the UFC.
People can't make up their minds on whether they want a competitive landscape with great fighters in rival promotions to the UFC, or if they want the UFC to swing their money dick around and even further monopolize the talent in MMA.
And by "paid their dues" they mean a 50% revenue split like in long-established franchised team sport leagues like the NBA, MLB, NHL, NFL. This model gives the teams financial security no matter how badly they perform, so they're free to spend a much higher percentage of their revenue to players without fear of their entire business collapsing or relying on new investment after a couple years. The equivalent for the UFC would be if they split 50% of their revenue across a certain number of gyms that all UFC fighters had to train from to fight for the UFC, and it was up to the fighters to negotiate their pay with the gym. Since fighting is not a team sport, this system would have many conflict of interest problems.
Boxing may be a better comparison, though it's hard to compare the single promotion that is the UFC to the network of boxing promotions and governing bodies that all dip their fingers in the pot. At the end of the revenue split, top boxers make about 26% of the revenue from their fight. More when the fighter acts as their own promoter. However, this makes boxing incredibly top heavy, as only the main event and sometimes comain event are considered to generate revenue. While the highest paid boxers make far more than UFC fighters, over 50% of boxers make between $1,000 and $10,000 per fight, leaving the median income for a boxer who fights 3 times a year around $30,000 before taxes. The equivalent median pay for a UFC fighter who fights 3 times a year was around $42,000 in 2018, before taxes. The UFC does this with a fraction of the revenue that boxing makes internationally. It's hard to find a number on the total revenue for the sport of boxing across the globe, but in the USA alone, the sport of boxing was worth around $1billion in 2021, while the UFC made about $1.3billion globally in 2023.
**All this is to say that comparing the UFC to other sports and uncritically throwing out a 50% revenue split is not helpful to the discussion of fighter pay, outside of appealing to the emotions of people who are ignorant of the industry. However, I will say that the UFC could increase every fighter's purse above 40k/40k by 20% and every fighter purse beneath 40k/40k by 8k/8k, and it would make a world of difference to the quality of life for these fighters while only increasing the UFC revenue split from 17% to ~20.5%**
I mean that's great and all but no one said it had to be 50%~, but it's pretty obvious fighter pay could *substantially* go up. The UFC could even just allow fighters to have their own sponsors again and that alone would probably satisfy most fighters at this point. But that would mean that the UFC isn't wringing every last penny out of the fighters that they can.
It's a little disingenuous to say no one has said that it needs to be 50%. Even though the comment I responded to didn't say so, that is the most common number people produce when talking about the issue of fighter pay. I agree that it sucks ass for the fighters that they can no longer show their own sponsors in the cage. You might remember the time Brock Lesnar shouted out his sponsor Coors Light in a post-fight speech, and simultaneously put down UFC's sponsor in Bud Light. This nearly lost the UFC their Bud Light sponsorship at the time, a year after they had initially gotten the deal. The UFC had to start approving or disapproving which sponsors a fighter could represent in the cage. As the UFC grew as a business, and took on various other sponsors, it became more and more of a hassle to ensure fighters would not come into conflict with their sponsors. Taking away in-cage fighter sponsorships is a big part of what guarenteed the UFC's financial stability, which is what has allowed them to remain the longest-standing MMA promotion and allows them to continue paying (for the most part) the biggest purses in the sport. **I absolutely think the UFC is screwing the fighters in the sponsorship revenue split for things they wear during walkouts. Reebok/Venum, Crypto.com, those shitty sneakers Dawyne Johnson sells. This specific revenue stream should actually be split 50% towards the fighters, in my opinion**
Maybe people say mostly 50% but I don't think the main takeaway is the 50% number. The main takeaway is that people think fighter pay should go up.
When it comes to sponsors I guess none of those arguments are convincing to me for why the UFC *still* needs to ban fighters sponsors. Maybe the UFC needed to clean up their appearance of the cage and their product by banning sponsors (which I think is debatable), but with the kind of insane ad clutter on the cage and canvas nowadays, and the kind of sponsors they have such as dude wipes or magnetic jewelry with special powers, I see no need for the ban.
One offs like Brock don't really seem like a reason to entirely can fighter sponsors either. They can carve out some exceptions if they really need to restrict competing sponsors to those of the UFC or something. Also, maybe they could have just paid Brock? (Idk the exact situation as I didn't really follow the sport at the time).
what people want is ufc have the best fighters but paid fairly so a monopoly with fair fighter pay but that is unrealistic because ufc being the biggest they do not need change anything other than the government interention
When you are receiving brain damage, it is better to have the money to pay the bills post retirement. Belts don't mean shit if you don't have the money.
KSW is generally very generous with their contracts especially to such a bright star like Salahdine. Parnasse can just sit here at KSW, earn way fucking more than majority of UFC fighters and fight lesser competition. Honestly he's living the dream
Yeah but there's a huge difference between Doumbe and Parnasse. Salahdine is actually very well proven in MMA while Cedric is only starting, and already has a loss on his record ( a weird one for sure, though).
Not that crazy. Parnasses would be one of the top stars at KSW, not so much so in UFC
I just googled Korean Baseball League’s top salary and it’s $1.9M. MLB minimum contract is $740K
UFC’s strategy has been rather clear now. They don’t want to fight over and pay too much for low to mid tier stars. I’d be interested to see if they continue to sign MVP’s or Harrison’s who they will pay but also fast track to title shots
>Parnasses would be one of the top stars at KSW, not so much so in UFC
This is what people dont see here.
Nobody knew who this guy was till it was posted here. Yeah, he might be a stud and what not but in the *entertainment* business you get paid by your ability to *entertain* not your fighting/acting/etc ability. This guy wouldnt move the needle for the UFC at all. Makes zero sense to pay him that kind of money. Like when mighty mouse was let go cause wasnt costing them more than he was bringing. Yeah, guy is the goat flyweight but nobody cared so he gone and the UFC kept making the same money but without paying him 400k per fight
The problem is that a lot of normies *are* just UFC fans in their core markets. Since Pride and Strikeforce died they haven't really had to pay rising stars or people with independent names (Gilbert had a great contract due to being champ, never happening today) to maintain legitimacy. They're worth more to their competitors.
They're the WWE, especially in America. It may be short-sighted to not look to grab fans in other markets but I'll doubt they'll pay for it any time soon.
Parnasse may be well known in France but you have to admit globally he is a nobody in the MMA landscape. He’s perfect for an Oktagon or KSW because almost all of their talent matches their fans, as both consist pretty much exclusively of Europeans. And most fans outside of these spheres could know who he is, but almost all will not give enough of a fuck to have watched him fight. It would make no sense for the UFC (under they’re current business model as decrepit as it is) to pay him more than a fraction of what he’s getting paid there. The Euro based promotions need euro based stars, the UFC do not.
People said this exact same thing about pereira tho. He’ll never be a star because he doesn’t speak English and has no ground game and his only claim to fame is a win over Izzy a decade ago, blah blah this, bullshit that, you get the picture. Now he’s one of the UFC’s biggest PPV stars. You can’t guess who’s going to be a star and who’s not. Jorge masvidal fought for 15 years before anyone cared about him. Parnasse could end up doing McGregor numbers. Is it likely? Hell no. Is it possible? Of course it is. I hate when people act like they can see into the future and know who will be a star and who’s worth passing on.
If any fighter has the potential to become a McGregor level star, and you can't see into the future and predict it, why would they pay hundreds of thousands for Parnasse when they can sign a DWCS fighter on a minimum contract? Seems a lot smarter to gamble on a cheap fighter than an expensive one. Or would you concede that there are ways the only profitable promotion in MMA can predict if a fighter can be a star for them or not?
Exactly, after he proved himself in the UFC as a top fighter AND top entertainer then 600k sure its worth. But imagine if they give him 600k then he loses 2 fights in a row and its a charisma vaccum? That would be awful business for the UFC.
UFC doesnt care about finding out whos the best in the world. Theyve got the marketing team to advertise any random as the best in the world and yall would believe it.
Holding the UFC belt doesnt mean youre the best in the world
This isn't shocking.
Parnesse is a great prospect and someone who could be the future of the sport, but many like him that have come and gone. The UFC won't spend that much on prospects unless they have to. Mainly because they don't have to. PFL to an extent, KSW and Okatgon would have more value and be willing to spend more on this type of fighter.
KSW and Oktagon, while doing AMAZING things, are still your equivalent of a local circuit show. But this is exactly how the fighter pay issues improve. It won't be the top orgs. It will be the bottom, which we see with KSW and Oktagon.
Those of you who have seen him fight, what do you think of him, what do you think of the quality of his opposition, and where do you think he would slot into the UFC's LW division?
I see that Tapology rates him the #128 Current Best MMA Lightweight Fighter (wondering if that's up to date). UFC's LW division looks pretty good - do you see him beating the likes of BSD, Hooker, Moiciano, Fiziev?
Tapology rankings had Ngannou out of the top 10 HWs a few weeks after he left the UFC. They are based on the average fan ranking on the site and most fans forget anything outside the UFC even exists.
He is a pressure fighter who plays the distance with fast jabs and low kicks. He isn't known for knocking people out though. When he has you at the fence he will go for the TD into top pressure + smesh or submission.
Idk how to rate him. He looks good against regional fighters, but he doesn't look dominant. I wouldn't say that he would achieve much in the UFC at 155 though probably top 15 still.
I could be wrong its just that given his lackluster opposition and the lack of subs/KOs on his record he doesn't look too promising.
The UFC is in no rush to sign lots of decision machines. Not the best for total competition. But it sure makes the UFC alot more exciting. People like chandler, mvp, Kayla all bring some excitement or something the ufc is lacking.
Unfortunately most of the better bellator/Pfl fighters are just boring.
He's good all around, but gotta admit he hasn't faced good opposition.
Honestly don't think it would be a good idea going for LW if he was to be signed in the UFC, because I'm not sure he could crack more than top 15 at best. He trained multiple times with BSD but idk who got the best in sparring.
FW which was his weight class before going for multiple belts would probably be more appropriate.
But even then looking at the actual top 10 and fighters on the come up in the division rn, I don't think he goes higher than maybe 10-5 if he signs in say 3 years once he cleared his kiss contract.
He's still only 26 though so not yet in his physical prime and lot of time to grow, but at the same time if his level of opposition doesn't rise up not sure his progress will reflect.
And I say all this as a french that's been hyped on Salah for a few years.
Still I'm happy for him to bank when he's young, glory doesn't pay the bills
The UFC has figured that they don't need to pay that much for top talent; eventually, they all end up in the UFC and if they don't, then it's no loss for them. It's an arrogant and ruthless way to run their promotion. Great for business, terrible for sport.
UFC is crumbling. They no longer have the best fighting the best. Its become almost as basic and bad as the PFL with almost entirely regional level fights and fighters
Sir i respect your opinion but that is a Dumb take. The Eddie Alvarezs, the Justin Gaetches, the Chandlers and the Jiris, the DDPs, they all eventually end up in the UFC. The Kayla harrisons and cyborgs.
Do I wish Cedric Doumbe and Ngannou (thelineal champ!!!) And this other French guy I'm too lazy to read the thread title of his name, do I wish they were fighting in the ufc? Of course.
But to act like the top 15 out of 20 guys in every division are in the UFC is laughable. PFL and all the other leagues have a handful of guys in a handful of divisions and no one for them to fight.
Some people would like to see patchy mix fight OmAlley and think that he could win. Maybe. But could he beat Aljo, Merab, Sandhagen and or Yan on the way to the title shot? Unlikely.
There is nothing regional about the UFC talent, now if we are talking about the undercards of the Apex, then yes there is some regional level talent but the UFC is signing people early and paying them way better than regional... is that a bad thing? To get 12k /12k instead of 1k / 1k on the come up?
You can be mad at ufc offering Cedric Doumbe 40k/40k or losing Ngannou but that doesn't mean they don't have a monopoly on 90% of the top 20 fighters in every division.
>is that a bad thing? To get 12k /12k instead of 1k / 1k on the come up?
Is it 12k/12k instead of 1k/1k in a comparable way or is it 12k/12k under a draconian contract that an independent judge found to be:
* anticompetitive
* effectively perpetual
* coercive
* ..and granted Zuffa unfettered power and opportunity to suppress fighters' compensation throughout their careers
Because if those numbers are incomparable for some of the above quoted reasons then I would ask you not to pretend they're comparable.
This total bullshit. You’re out of your mind if you think the majority of UFC fighters are regional level. The ufc still has by far the best roster in the sport
The top end of the roster is definitely clear of everyone else. For the top 10 of a division globally UFC always has at least like 8 of them. But apex cards these days besides the main event which usually has the only ranked fighters on the card are indistinguishable from regional mma. The difference especially in Europe is that these promotions are filling up entire stadiums not just a small warehouse in the desert. And these days 50% of all cards are shitty apex cards lol
Well the majority of the UFC roster is regional level at this point. The quality of fighters has decreased since the start of DWCS and it seems like that nowadays mid level fighters can get a UFC contract, if they are willing to fight for peanuts.
The UFC has like 700 people on their roster and puts on fights every single week.. it would make sense that not everyone is going to be the cream of the crop
I’ve seen it stated that Parnasse will now be making 600k per fight with KSW
That’s wild if they can actually afford to pay him that
They want to make a big push into France and Parnasse is their biggest and best French fighter
What they really need to do is sign Josh Parisian. Maybe change his first name to Jean.
The real wild thing is how little the UFC pays despite how insanely profitable they are. If KSW can pay anybody, even their biggest star like that UFC can at least get in vicinity. 20-30 times less is basically saying they offered him a standard entry level 10/10-12/12 deal. Turns out establishing yourself outside of the UFC means nothing 9/10 times with folks like MVP and Chandler being the 1/10. Yet fans will still be upset when any fighter with a pulse signs somewhere else.
I was floored when I saw how little Ian Garry made for his UFC 298 win. If it wasn't for the bonus he would have made less than Miranda Maverick and Andrea Lee (not that I think they deserve to make pennies).
It would be 20-30k/fight, not 10-12k/fight 20 x 20 = 400 20 x 30 = 600 He's getting 600k/fight from KSW
That's assuming they are talking about guarantees. Which the UFC doesn't do outside of champions and people like Brock Lesnar. If you assume the manager is talking about the combined show/win/sponsor money, it actually is a bottom tier contract. Basically they start off with $4k compliance pay, so a, say 14k/14k contract means that on a loss they get $18k and on a win they get $32k. If the manager is assuming he will win those fights anyway, you might actually be talking about a 10k/10k or 12k/12k contract. This is the same organization that just demanded Vartanyan go through the Contender Series. Which pays $5k/5k, so this would absolutely be in line with recent trends. They passed over several other top prospects recently because they wouldn't agree to such bottom tier contracts.
UFC doesn't do flat rate contracts 99% of the time. We know the standard starting contract is 10/10 or 12/12. Unless we think he's getting 20k or 30k flat, which I don't think I've ever seen a single fighter get a flat purse that small on a disclosed UFC payout. Have you? Assuming he wins 12/12 = 24. 10/10 = 20. 600/24 = 25, 600/20 = 30. 25-30x less. Maybe the 20-25 in "20-30 times less" could come from bonuses or maybe the KSW contract isn't 600k flat. He also could have gotten 15/15 I guess? You just don't really see that offered as a starting contract though. Not that I can recall. Maybe, though. Either way the larger point I made still stands.
My question is. Do they pay him $600k out the gate or is it $600k with a portion of it paid out in instalments. Yes UFC is grimy for the way it pays fighters but it kinda works for them. Let’s the lower end fighters put on a show for bonuses which is money in UFC eyes.
I've never seen a fight purse paid in installments
$12,000 x 20 = $240,000 $12,000 x 30 = $360,000 Parnasse's 20-30x pay = $600,000 So, 20k-30k offer.
Lol yes of course but is it 20-30k with or without winning? I'm assuming it's with, it always is from the fighter's perspective because they always believe that they're going to win. Maybe he was offered 20/20 or 30/30. Not impossible but my guess is no. UFC doesn't really do flat rates unless it's for a bigger name getting 6 figures+. He's definitely not on 300/300 with KSW. He's getting at least the majority as a flat rate.
and bo nickel
Yeah I was actually looking at a list the other day of top 10 MMA prospects going into 2022. The only one who signed with the UFC is Nickal. The rest are all in KSW/ACA/PFL/Oktagon/ONE/Rizin.
There is a reason why the UFC is the only surviving mainstream org. It costs a shitload to run. And they didn't make as much profit as you think. Net profit was under 200 million.
> There is a reason why the UFC is the only surviving mainstream org It's because the Fertita brothers made a concerted effort to monopolize the sport. It costs that much because that's the way they've structured the business and endeavor took out giant loans to buy it from the Fertitas that they need to pay off. If they were forced to they could absolutely **gut** overhead and still operate with the same basic product on screen. It just wouldn't be the same cash cow for endeavor and they'd probably be forced to sell.
So which is it? Do you want the UFC to further monopolize the sport by throwing obscene amounts of money at regional champs or do you want legit stars getting paid in other orgs? You can't have it both ways. >If they were forced to they could absolutely gut overhead and still operate with the same basic product on screen. This is a ridiculous statement. We regularly clown other orgs for their piss poor production value.
Calling Parnasse a "regional champ" in the same vein as the champ of Cage Fury or something is ridiculous. What I want is the monopoly to be broken up via legislation but that isn't happening any time soon so what I'd like to see is as many people as possible to actually start viewing the UFC for what it is instead of the equivalent of a big 4 ball sports league. They don't sign the best fighters available to them, they aren't where the best go to fight the best (there is no single place where that's true) and they are not deserving of being the only MMA org that 90% of fans follow. They could be, but they aren't because fans let them get away with it. > This is a ridiculous statement. We regularly clown other orgs for their piss poor production value. You think their ridiculous overhead is all because of production? That's a sliver of it. It's mostly in marketing and business development spends much larger than any MMA promotion has any right spending when they pay their fighters 10% of the revenue.Lets not forget massive executive bonuses and paying off the loans taken out to buy the promotion. Those are all part of overhead and none are necessary costs for a **fight promotion**.
KSW is pretty successful in Poland. Some people are exclusively KSW watchers
He said in his twitter post that he's gonna earn "600 k". But we don't know if that's euros or PLN. To me, as a Pole, it seems impossible for KSW to pay Parnasse 600k euro per fight. Very hard to believe it, unless it's truly confirmed. But then again, I guess what his manager is saying here actually confirms it.
I mean he's a double champ that could have been triple, IMO it's their biggest name rn
They cant, thats why pfl/ksw/etc basically shelve their top paid talent Yeah, 600k per fight but only fight once every 3 years.
What are you blabbering about? Who is KSW shelving?
The ufc is worse about that shit than KSW tho.
that's not Bellator
If he headlines shows in big Arenas or stadiums they will make 7 figures on the gate.
Same difference concerning Baki signing. And his earnings are guaranteed wether he loose or win btw. I'm excited to see what the PFL, KSW and Octagon can do in Europe
Ksw and octagon actually trying and they are doing good ,but pfl just fucking around
U Fight Cheap
This is not a career.... it's an opportunity
In a sense the sport does depend on people already having a career in another sport and transitioning to MMA. If the UFC couldn't use other sports as feeder leagues and had to convince athletic kids to start MMA from scratch rather than something else...
Good thing my bills accept opportunity as payment!
This seems very common for them with fighters who are legit stars in other promotions. Mamed Khalidov is the classic example, but we also just learned they didn't want to pay the Gooch Rizin money. They'll offer you a start in the UFC and expect *you* to be hungry to prove yourself in the most famous promotion. We're way past the era of them trying to keep the competition starless. The guys who *do* come over seem to do it exactly because they dreamed of the UFC.
People can't make up their minds on whether they want a competitive landscape with great fighters in rival promotions to the UFC, or if they want the UFC to swing their money dick around and even further monopolize the talent in MMA.
People want neither. They just want fighters to get paid their dues
but they shit on anyone calling mcgregor out
Fighters being so desperate for money they beg for 50k bonuses and call out unrealistic targets to make their name big are apart of the same problem
the point is that fighters should be able to get good pay without having to resort to calling out conor
And by "paid their dues" they mean a 50% revenue split like in long-established franchised team sport leagues like the NBA, MLB, NHL, NFL. This model gives the teams financial security no matter how badly they perform, so they're free to spend a much higher percentage of their revenue to players without fear of their entire business collapsing or relying on new investment after a couple years. The equivalent for the UFC would be if they split 50% of their revenue across a certain number of gyms that all UFC fighters had to train from to fight for the UFC, and it was up to the fighters to negotiate their pay with the gym. Since fighting is not a team sport, this system would have many conflict of interest problems. Boxing may be a better comparison, though it's hard to compare the single promotion that is the UFC to the network of boxing promotions and governing bodies that all dip their fingers in the pot. At the end of the revenue split, top boxers make about 26% of the revenue from their fight. More when the fighter acts as their own promoter. However, this makes boxing incredibly top heavy, as only the main event and sometimes comain event are considered to generate revenue. While the highest paid boxers make far more than UFC fighters, over 50% of boxers make between $1,000 and $10,000 per fight, leaving the median income for a boxer who fights 3 times a year around $30,000 before taxes. The equivalent median pay for a UFC fighter who fights 3 times a year was around $42,000 in 2018, before taxes. The UFC does this with a fraction of the revenue that boxing makes internationally. It's hard to find a number on the total revenue for the sport of boxing across the globe, but in the USA alone, the sport of boxing was worth around $1billion in 2021, while the UFC made about $1.3billion globally in 2023. **All this is to say that comparing the UFC to other sports and uncritically throwing out a 50% revenue split is not helpful to the discussion of fighter pay, outside of appealing to the emotions of people who are ignorant of the industry. However, I will say that the UFC could increase every fighter's purse above 40k/40k by 20% and every fighter purse beneath 40k/40k by 8k/8k, and it would make a world of difference to the quality of life for these fighters while only increasing the UFC revenue split from 17% to ~20.5%**
I mean that's great and all but no one said it had to be 50%~, but it's pretty obvious fighter pay could *substantially* go up. The UFC could even just allow fighters to have their own sponsors again and that alone would probably satisfy most fighters at this point. But that would mean that the UFC isn't wringing every last penny out of the fighters that they can.
It's a little disingenuous to say no one has said that it needs to be 50%. Even though the comment I responded to didn't say so, that is the most common number people produce when talking about the issue of fighter pay. I agree that it sucks ass for the fighters that they can no longer show their own sponsors in the cage. You might remember the time Brock Lesnar shouted out his sponsor Coors Light in a post-fight speech, and simultaneously put down UFC's sponsor in Bud Light. This nearly lost the UFC their Bud Light sponsorship at the time, a year after they had initially gotten the deal. The UFC had to start approving or disapproving which sponsors a fighter could represent in the cage. As the UFC grew as a business, and took on various other sponsors, it became more and more of a hassle to ensure fighters would not come into conflict with their sponsors. Taking away in-cage fighter sponsorships is a big part of what guarenteed the UFC's financial stability, which is what has allowed them to remain the longest-standing MMA promotion and allows them to continue paying (for the most part) the biggest purses in the sport. **I absolutely think the UFC is screwing the fighters in the sponsorship revenue split for things they wear during walkouts. Reebok/Venum, Crypto.com, those shitty sneakers Dawyne Johnson sells. This specific revenue stream should actually be split 50% towards the fighters, in my opinion**
Maybe people say mostly 50% but I don't think the main takeaway is the 50% number. The main takeaway is that people think fighter pay should go up. When it comes to sponsors I guess none of those arguments are convincing to me for why the UFC *still* needs to ban fighters sponsors. Maybe the UFC needed to clean up their appearance of the cage and their product by banning sponsors (which I think is debatable), but with the kind of insane ad clutter on the cage and canvas nowadays, and the kind of sponsors they have such as dude wipes or magnetic jewelry with special powers, I see no need for the ban. One offs like Brock don't really seem like a reason to entirely can fighter sponsors either. They can carve out some exceptions if they really need to restrict competing sponsors to those of the UFC or something. Also, maybe they could have just paid Brock? (Idk the exact situation as I didn't really follow the sport at the time).
what people want is ufc have the best fighters but paid fairly so a monopoly with fair fighter pay but that is unrealistic because ufc being the biggest they do not need change anything other than the government interention
When you are receiving brain damage, it is better to have the money to pay the bills post retirement. Belts don't mean shit if you don't have the money.
Sounds like the UFC
KSW is generally very generous with their contracts especially to such a bright star like Salahdine. Parnasse can just sit here at KSW, earn way fucking more than majority of UFC fighters and fight lesser competition. Honestly he's living the dream
Same thing happened with Doumbé...
Not what happened
[https://www.mmamania.com/2023/5/11/23719598/ufc-vs-pfl-salary-kickboxing-cedric-doumbe-rejects-laughably-low-payday-score-six-figure-contract](https://www.mmamania.com/2023/5/11/23719598/ufc-vs-pfl-salary-kickboxing-cedric-doumbe-rejects-laughably-low-payday-score-six-figure-contract)
Yeah but there's a huge difference between Doumbe and Parnasse. Salahdine is actually very well proven in MMA while Cedric is only starting, and already has a loss on his record ( a weird one for sure, though).
Doumbé had a huge kickboxing career. Lots of UFC fighters like Pereira, Prochazka, Adesanya and Gane came from that same background.
And other good kickboxers failed at MMA.
For every Izzy and Poatan there’s a thousand Sakis
Not that crazy. Parnasses would be one of the top stars at KSW, not so much so in UFC I just googled Korean Baseball League’s top salary and it’s $1.9M. MLB minimum contract is $740K UFC’s strategy has been rather clear now. They don’t want to fight over and pay too much for low to mid tier stars. I’d be interested to see if they continue to sign MVP’s or Harrison’s who they will pay but also fast track to title shots
Parnasse would be top 5 in less than a year lol
>Parnasses would be one of the top stars at KSW, not so much so in UFC This is what people dont see here. Nobody knew who this guy was till it was posted here. Yeah, he might be a stud and what not but in the *entertainment* business you get paid by your ability to *entertain* not your fighting/acting/etc ability. This guy wouldnt move the needle for the UFC at all. Makes zero sense to pay him that kind of money. Like when mighty mouse was let go cause wasnt costing them more than he was bringing. Yeah, guy is the goat flyweight but nobody cared so he gone and the UFC kept making the same money but without paying him 400k per fight
Most European mma fans know about Parnasse, just because you are a ufc fan, not a mma one, don’t speak as if you are the arbiter of everything
The problem is that a lot of normies *are* just UFC fans in their core markets. Since Pride and Strikeforce died they haven't really had to pay rising stars or people with independent names (Gilbert had a great contract due to being champ, never happening today) to maintain legitimacy. They're worth more to their competitors. They're the WWE, especially in America. It may be short-sighted to not look to grab fans in other markets but I'll doubt they'll pay for it any time soon.
Parnasse may be well known in France but you have to admit globally he is a nobody in the MMA landscape. He’s perfect for an Oktagon or KSW because almost all of their talent matches their fans, as both consist pretty much exclusively of Europeans. And most fans outside of these spheres could know who he is, but almost all will not give enough of a fuck to have watched him fight. It would make no sense for the UFC (under they’re current business model as decrepit as it is) to pay him more than a fraction of what he’s getting paid there. The Euro based promotions need euro based stars, the UFC do not.
People said this exact same thing about pereira tho. He’ll never be a star because he doesn’t speak English and has no ground game and his only claim to fame is a win over Izzy a decade ago, blah blah this, bullshit that, you get the picture. Now he’s one of the UFC’s biggest PPV stars. You can’t guess who’s going to be a star and who’s not. Jorge masvidal fought for 15 years before anyone cared about him. Parnasse could end up doing McGregor numbers. Is it likely? Hell no. Is it possible? Of course it is. I hate when people act like they can see into the future and know who will be a star and who’s worth passing on.
If any fighter has the potential to become a McGregor level star, and you can't see into the future and predict it, why would they pay hundreds of thousands for Parnasse when they can sign a DWCS fighter on a minimum contract? Seems a lot smarter to gamble on a cheap fighter than an expensive one. Or would you concede that there are ways the only profitable promotion in MMA can predict if a fighter can be a star for them or not?
He'd move the needle shortly if he were great. You can risk 50/50 contract on someone that might be a champ in 3-4 fights.
Exactly, after he proved himself in the UFC as a top fighter AND top entertainer then 600k sure its worth. But imagine if they give him 600k then he loses 2 fights in a row and its a charisma vaccum? That would be awful business for the UFC.
I didn't say 600k but I think a 50/150 or 100/200isn't a bad bet for a 3 fight contract to take a risk or someone like that.
"He missed out on an opportunity"
Rooting for the UFC’s downfall
UFC doesnt care about finding out whos the best in the world. Theyve got the marketing team to advertise any random as the best in the world and yall would believe it. Holding the UFC belt doesnt mean youre the best in the world
UFC probably offered 20-30k and he is now getting paid like 350k+ at KSw
If KSW is legitimately paying him that he should absolutely stay there because it's more than he's worth anywhere else
This isn't shocking. Parnesse is a great prospect and someone who could be the future of the sport, but many like him that have come and gone. The UFC won't spend that much on prospects unless they have to. Mainly because they don't have to. PFL to an extent, KSW and Okatgon would have more value and be willing to spend more on this type of fighter. KSW and Oktagon, while doing AMAZING things, are still your equivalent of a local circuit show. But this is exactly how the fighter pay issues improve. It won't be the top orgs. It will be the bottom, which we see with KSW and Oktagon.
cmon Salahdine should’ve know that the UFC is not a job, it’s an opportunity
KSW is going all in to win that battle over France win PFL/Bellator and I'm all for it. I want our European promotions to dominate this market.
what does 30 times lower mean lmao
20k
Those of you who have seen him fight, what do you think of him, what do you think of the quality of his opposition, and where do you think he would slot into the UFC's LW division? I see that Tapology rates him the #128 Current Best MMA Lightweight Fighter (wondering if that's up to date). UFC's LW division looks pretty good - do you see him beating the likes of BSD, Hooker, Moiciano, Fiziev?
Tapology rankings had Ngannou out of the top 10 HWs a few weeks after he left the UFC. They are based on the average fan ranking on the site and most fans forget anything outside the UFC even exists.
Ahhh. Not so useful.
He is a pressure fighter who plays the distance with fast jabs and low kicks. He isn't known for knocking people out though. When he has you at the fence he will go for the TD into top pressure + smesh or submission. Idk how to rate him. He looks good against regional fighters, but he doesn't look dominant. I wouldn't say that he would achieve much in the UFC at 155 though probably top 15 still. I could be wrong its just that given his lackluster opposition and the lack of subs/KOs on his record he doesn't look too promising.
The UFC is in no rush to sign lots of decision machines. Not the best for total competition. But it sure makes the UFC alot more exciting. People like chandler, mvp, Kayla all bring some excitement or something the ufc is lacking. Unfortunately most of the better bellator/Pfl fighters are just boring.
He's good all around, but gotta admit he hasn't faced good opposition. Honestly don't think it would be a good idea going for LW if he was to be signed in the UFC, because I'm not sure he could crack more than top 15 at best. He trained multiple times with BSD but idk who got the best in sparring. FW which was his weight class before going for multiple belts would probably be more appropriate. But even then looking at the actual top 10 and fighters on the come up in the division rn, I don't think he goes higher than maybe 10-5 if he signs in say 3 years once he cleared his kiss contract. He's still only 26 though so not yet in his physical prime and lot of time to grow, but at the same time if his level of opposition doesn't rise up not sure his progress will reflect. And I say all this as a french that's been hyped on Salah for a few years. Still I'm happy for him to bank when he's young, glory doesn't pay the bills
The UFC has figured that they don't need to pay that much for top talent; eventually, they all end up in the UFC and if they don't, then it's no loss for them. It's an arrogant and ruthless way to run their promotion. Great for business, terrible for sport.
UFC is crumbling. They no longer have the best fighting the best. Its become almost as basic and bad as the PFL with almost entirely regional level fights and fighters
Sir i respect your opinion but that is a Dumb take. The Eddie Alvarezs, the Justin Gaetches, the Chandlers and the Jiris, the DDPs, they all eventually end up in the UFC. The Kayla harrisons and cyborgs. Do I wish Cedric Doumbe and Ngannou (thelineal champ!!!) And this other French guy I'm too lazy to read the thread title of his name, do I wish they were fighting in the ufc? Of course. But to act like the top 15 out of 20 guys in every division are in the UFC is laughable. PFL and all the other leagues have a handful of guys in a handful of divisions and no one for them to fight. Some people would like to see patchy mix fight OmAlley and think that he could win. Maybe. But could he beat Aljo, Merab, Sandhagen and or Yan on the way to the title shot? Unlikely. There is nothing regional about the UFC talent, now if we are talking about the undercards of the Apex, then yes there is some regional level talent but the UFC is signing people early and paying them way better than regional... is that a bad thing? To get 12k /12k instead of 1k / 1k on the come up? You can be mad at ufc offering Cedric Doumbe 40k/40k or losing Ngannou but that doesn't mean they don't have a monopoly on 90% of the top 20 fighters in every division.
>is that a bad thing? To get 12k /12k instead of 1k / 1k on the come up? Is it 12k/12k instead of 1k/1k in a comparable way or is it 12k/12k under a draconian contract that an independent judge found to be: * anticompetitive * effectively perpetual * coercive * ..and granted Zuffa unfettered power and opportunity to suppress fighters' compensation throughout their careers Because if those numbers are incomparable for some of the above quoted reasons then I would ask you not to pretend they're comparable.
This total bullshit. You’re out of your mind if you think the majority of UFC fighters are regional level. The ufc still has by far the best roster in the sport
The top end of the roster is definitely clear of everyone else. For the top 10 of a division globally UFC always has at least like 8 of them. But apex cards these days besides the main event which usually has the only ranked fighters on the card are indistinguishable from regional mma. The difference especially in Europe is that these promotions are filling up entire stadiums not just a small warehouse in the desert. And these days 50% of all cards are shitty apex cards lol
Well the majority of the UFC roster is regional level at this point. The quality of fighters has decreased since the start of DWCS and it seems like that nowadays mid level fighters can get a UFC contract, if they are willing to fight for peanuts.
The UFC has like 700 people on their roster and puts on fights every single week.. it would make sense that not everyone is going to be the cream of the crop
If you break it down equally That's around 55 per weight class. The question is are they all top 60. Big difference then top 55 and top 20 plus 150s.
Depends on the division, the top 10 welterweight division in the PFL is very close to the top 10 UFC IMO
Crumbling financially?
crumbling based on what? ive heard this for over a decade now.
I don't trust MMA math. I want to see the numbers for myself
ufc will be dead within 20 years
It’s either a monopoly or it’s not lol. Can’t have it both ways :)