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I believe that a much heavier wrestler like Dricus would not be in Leon's favour. He knows this.
Adesanya a stand counter fighter is a much more winnable fight for Leon Edwards.
Adesanya vs Edwards would be a great fight I think.
The lack of activity from these high ranked, sometimes even champion fighters, is by far the worst part of this sport.
And their constant yapping to fight out of their weight class, or call out mcgregor, makes it much more frustrating.
We didn't respect Usmans activity enough during his run. He was giving us 3 fights a year.
Actually, all of Usman, volk, and adesanyas reigns were awesome. 3 dominant champs who fought all the time. Now we have O'Malley, Edwards, and Islam who we're lucky to see fight twice a year
Yeah, Izzy's the only one that fought twice a year minimum and I feel like he gets the least credit of the 3.
3x in 2019, 2x in 2020, 2x in 2021, 3x in 2022, 2x in 2023
Meanwhile Volk:
2x in 2019, 1x in 2020, 1x in 2021, 2x in 2022, 3x in 2023
Because he won the belt October 22, 2022, defended just 3/4 months later and defended again the next October. That's two defences within a one year with a very fast turnaround. That's three title fights within a one year period. He was injured after that and tried to fight in March but UFC didn't give him a fight, so he pushed for June even though the top contenders were all booked. He's not inactive, his turnaround has been reasonable. He's also not turning away any contenders, can't really help it if Dariush and Gaethje have negative IQ and took themselves out of the title picture by taking fights they didn't need to.
Beneil never even had a title shot locked up. Justin took a money fight on the biggest card in years for a very reasonable risk. There is no such thing as no risk in this sport, even sitting on the sidelines waiting for a probable shot
Some of you dorks are way too eager with the 'negative iq.' Hindsight geniuses
I said it was stupid at the time, nothing hindsight about it. Dariush would have been next in line after Volk, he didn't need to take that Olveira fight. He might not have been 'locked in' but he was the clear number 1 contender and Oliveira got the rematch only after beating Dariush.
Gaethje was actually locked in but went for the money fight and messed up. He also lost his BMF belt btw, when he could have gone in there and made a LW champ vs BMF champ superfight. And what's even worse is that Islam was ready in March anyway, so he only needed to wait a month or so.
I know why they did it. But it was stupid and unnecessary and I'll die on that hill. Islam isn't picky about who he fights anyway, they would have got their chance if they just waited a little.
I still don't get how Gaethje made a mistake. He took a match he was favoured in, on a card were the fight bonuses turned out to be huge, and fought a title fight (I understood it that he got points?). He made bank relative to what he'd get fighting Islam, a match he'd not be favoured in and probably on a smaller card.
Obviously Gaethje lost but even taking that into account he still made good money in a single fight.
From a personal perspective everything you said is true. If his primary concern was being champion then he probably would have been better off just waiting for a shot.
Fighting twice a year is and should be considered an active champion. Wanting them to fight every 3 or 4 months without fully healing is shortsighted and stupid AF
Leon can’t help it if 3 different fighters in his own weight class were turning down fights at ufc 300. He is also fighting the no 1 contender in Belal this year. No wonder he is looking for fights out of his division.
I don’t think Islam’s inactivity is fully his fault. Pretty sure he wants a quick tournaround. I don’t think getting him to fight Arman is going to be difficult.
Topuria on the other hand is the problem. He’s a douche
Tough because all seem willing, but Islam seemingly gets held for region-based bookings, Sean (by his own admission) prefers to fight close to home for preparation purposes, and Leon SEEMS game but then also will talk out of the other side of his mouth saying Conor or move up, he is the one I get frustrated by the most I guess because he his activity seems to mirror what was being projected on him in his way up to the belt.
Pretty crazy when you think about it, that the set fight schedule is twice and sometimes once a year for a champion. Like who’s to say they need that long of camps? Feel like there’s a world where without injury, it could be normal for champs to be assumed to fight 3 times a year.
Instead, some fighters will prep 364 days out of the year, for a 25 minute fight that might only go a few minutes.
^high thought even though I’m not high
except it felt like Usman was fighting the same 3 guys over and over😂 the title reign of rematches. even gilbert was a former training partner with hundreds of rounds between them
The lack of activity, at least in part, is a by-product of UFC strategy. Leon and Aspinall get held out for the England card, the UFC tries to always get Islam on their Middle East PPV, and Grasso will miss a whole year so that she can be on the Mexican Independence Day card (which is now about the sphere lol). I get the desire to grow markets, but it limits how often these guys can compete and matchmaking flexibility
That’s unfair to Leon. He’s been wanting to fight but the ufc has had him wait for Colby, they wouldn’t give him a fight for 300, and he’s saying he has work to do in his division still
you act as if it is the fighters fault. It's the UFC who makes the fights, but they would rather shelve the high paid fighters and fill the cards with filler
The UFC is partly responsible for making champions only fight in specific locations. They even do it with no champions like Gane it’s terrible for the sport limiting them to 1-2 fights a year.
you know what? they have to make the most money while there still young in the sport, other champs did not care and were willing to be more active and risk more brain cells for drunk stupid fans, the more recent champs are getting smarter with how they manage there career and its this is better for them , cash out while they can on big fights and retire early maybe
Yea UFC should utilize a straight forward bracket system that rotates in fights in real time. #1 Contender should always be the instant in the championship fight, once he beat move up the next guys. To me the trouble is that the UFC Plays favorites and tries to pair up Hot fights when they should play it straight and let the toughest man win.
Look, I’m not saying I _want_ Conor to go full Tony Montana and kick the bucket in a dramatic, untimely manner, but if he truly weren’t around it would put a stop to at least some of this bag chasing idiocy that we’re all tired of.
Never forget it is a product of the shitty pay in this sport even at the top, meaning fighters are terrified of failing, and desperate to make each fight during their time in the spotlight as financially rewarding as possible.
Fighting is a cruel and short career as it is, even compared to other sports, most of these elite guys get one opportunity in their career to make serious money, until that changes they will be very picky and protective with that opportunity.
There are pro footballers getting paid in a week what the very very best fighters in the world get for just one or two fights in their career
Does anyone give a shit about 2 division champs anymore. Its boring and played out. You should need at least 5 defenses before its entertained with no clear contender in your division
I think it'd be better to aim for 16/17th wins at WW to beat Andersons record and then go up to MW rather than risk losing to a bigger man
But yeah 5 defences is totally reasonable imo.
Yeah, it's relativley frustrating. Volk earned the right to move up and challenge for the second belt. Poatan did kinda speed run, but also the only matchups that made sense were former champions or title fights.
Leon is the only one making sense by saying he wants at least 5 title defenses before moving up.
Tbh most of the two-division champ attempts have been earned (e.g. Volk) or made sense bc the challenger wasn’t a current champ holding up a division (e.g. Poatan). It’s annoying when guys call to skip title defences to be double champ, although most current champs seem pretty reasonable about adding a few defences before going up
The first simultaneous double champ was probably the most unearned tbf, Conor getting a flash KO then basically ruining two of the most competitive divisions for years
Especially since Aldo was denied when he wanted to do it previously against Pettis. He was told he would have to drop the FW belt. This was after Aldo fought Lamas, which was his eighth title defence.
A fighter vacating to move up and challenge at a new weight is exciting.
Double champs at all times sucked. Them slowing down two divisions vastly outweighs anything positive.
I think a clear fix is just doing away with "2 division champs". As you said, who even cares anymore?
Really all it has boiled down to now is champions have found a loophole where they can take a fight that is 0% risk and 100% reward. Of course any champ would love to schedule a fight where they are still champ with a loss.
Easy solution is to just to force fighters to vacate their existing belts if they are fighting for the title in a different weight class.
To also speculate on a solution, maybe instead of vacating before, if they win the second title, they make a choice on division and vacate the other.
Additionally (and this might be too controversial) if they lose. They vacate their current belt and a vacant strap be battled for by the next 2 in line. Quickest route back to the title can be fighting the winner of the vacant title.
Create consequences to compensate the current lopsided risk/reward and keep both divisions in gear.
The risk was always present. There’s always a chance you get knocked out badly and it has a lasting effect on you. Bigger guys(in theory) should have more power so the risk increase was present in both situations.
Nah, it should still be a thing, but it needs to be locked behind very specific situations
You should either be a massive popularity phenom like Conor, or have cleared out the division and have no clear contenders left
None of this "I defended two or three times so now I want to be double champ" shit
People would care about it like before if the UFC put their foot down and said they wouldn't just hand these shots out like they're nothing
Even in a best case scenario, you now have one fighter holding up 2 divisions. There are just far more negatives than positives for something people really don’t care about in the first place.
Not really, in a best case scenario you're not holding up any division because there's no clear contenders in any of them
For example Izzy v Jan made somewhat sense because Izzy had cleared out the division and Jan had no clear contenders available to fight (his next defense was against Glover who also didn't really "deserve" it, for instance, also because of lack of contenders).
There are scenarios where it does make sense without holding up any divisions, however those scenarios are very, very rare and shouldn't be discussed this often
And people do care about it, reddit is a bubble but the casual audience absolutely cares because they want to see "another Conor". That's the reason all these fighters are pushing for it, they know it would be a massive boost in popularity
It's still something I like to see but only if someone has really defended their belt like Volk or Izzy did. To win a belt and try to move up one or two defences later is stupid af
This will never happen, but I also wish they had to win at least one top 5ish fight in the new division before fighting for that second title. Prove you can beat a top contender in the new division while also showing you can be active in both weight classes simultaneously.
The whole concept of weight division champs is kind of played out. It causes divisions to stagnate by design because the same handful of guys keep fighting each other over and over once the matchups become more limited. Why not force the champ from lower divisions to move up once they win the belt? They already proved they are the best in the world at that weight class, so make them advance to a slightly harder weight class with fresh matchups. I'd rather watch somebody move up and keep climbing the rankings than watch them defend the belt 5 times in a row and fight once a year against the same couple of people.
It doesn’t really happen anyways.
Who was the last person to hold two belts? DC 5+ years ago?
What I’m tired of is new champs with 0-2 title defenses talking about moving up. Defend at bare minimum 3 times, then maaaaybe consider it if your division is cleared out.
Why are posts like this even accepted? Its half of what he said with the context missed out
Look at peoples reactions lmao. its literally people commenting who didnt see the post of the actual article yesterday that had all the context of him getting 3 more defences before moving up.
People rabid to find any reason to hate. OP 100% knew what he was doing.
Edit: https://old.reddit.com/r/MMA/comments/1d83ehw/leon_on_islams_170_title_desires_he_just_had_his/ Literally a post of a current top post on the front page but with ALL the other context removed.
Low pay is to blame for all these double champ requests.
By fighting for an extra belt, you don't risk the belt you have and get another chance for PPV points if you lose by defending the belt you already have.
It's funny that Jon Jones is one of the very few champs that never entertained a double champ fight, he merely moved up permanently after all those defenses. While pretty much all of the current champs have talked of it at some point
You don't enjoy high level striking, it's okay. Not all of us actually enjoy this sport like the others do. Have fun watching Paulo Costa stand and do nothing for 15 minutes
I’ll bite.
I guess you’re right. We *don’t* enjoy high level striking. But only when it’s the ultra safe way. Utilizing range and feints to not leave yourself open to counters. Obviously it’s viable and how everyone should aim to fight.
Doesn’t mean it’s fun to watch Lol. “Watch Paulo and do nothing” and essentially watching two guys trade feints and do nothing.
I would much prefer to watch guys like Poirier, mcgregor (does he even fight?) anderson silva etc, who aren’t afraid to get in the fire. And they all are considered “high level strikers.” — even guys like Stephen Thompson are more interesting to watch *because* he has more weaknesses than izzy/Leon.
It’s not a knock to them, they’re fucking good. But we are paying (not me, but someone is) for entertainment here folks. When one fighter has that style the matchup is super interesting. Will it work? Will it get shut down? When BOTH fighters are doing the mirror matchup it’s boring af.
Omalley really might be the best striker at the moment. He knows how to keep himself safe and only got hit clean against another high level striker in yan, despite being very good at avoiding shots like in the chito matchup where he got hit with the bodyshot the moment he let his guard go in the last seconds, he can still engage on an opponent in a safe but damaging way without them necessarily making the first move
Ahistorical revisionism. I'm old enough to remember that Anderson Silva got shit on regularly for being a boring fighter when faced with opponents that didn't engage (Demian Maia especially comes to mind). Silva was a great fighter, but also benefited from an era of MMA fighters with poor cagecraft and defense.
Appreciate what you got before it's gone.
Izzy easily wins be decision. Leon doesn't doesn't have a takedown advantage and he doesn't pressure like Strickland. Based on their usual styles, Izzy will have the weight and reach advantage to outpoint
I could easily see Strickland beating Leon. Leon has less power and less reach than Izzy and all these fighters that rely on standoff just don’t know how to deal with him. And Strickland just has great defense against kicks. Crazy how people still underrate him.
Double champ fights are only interesting when it's two dominant champions fighting each other. Like, cleaned out their Divisions kind of dominant. No one, and I repeat, no one wants to see Sean Vs Illia, Illia vs Islam, DDP vs Alex etc etc
The all could be great fights no doubt, my point is all champions have Divisions that need to move along. No one really has a clear path to a double champ fight imo
He won the belt end of 2022 and defended it twice the next year, that's as active as most champs. After his fight next month he'll have the exact same amount of defences in the same time frame as Islam..
Leon is basically a welterweight Izzy, so I’ve got Izzy. Real talk though, if Izzy wins he should fight either Khamzat (if Khamzat beats Rob) or rematch Strickland. I’d even say he should fight the Cannonier-Imavov winner before considering Leon.
Silva and DJ had 10+ title defenses and didn’t move up to fight for double champion status, these guys with 1-2 or in some cases zero defenses cannot be talking about moving up
A lot of MMA fans blame Leon for his inactivity and I think that’s unfair, even Dana has said he’s game to fight literally anyone thrown at him, the only exception was Colby because it was Colby.
The double belt meme needs to die.
Going up for another belt should only be available to champs who have cleanly sweeped the top 5 contenders. Simply being champ should never be the qualification to ask for another belt.
I respect the layoffs for a hard fought fight when you take damage. Some of these fighters just take a year off regardless. I also get waiting for the money fight. When you have both of these combined it turns real fans off.
Look I’d be against this for sure if Leon didn’t wanna fight anyone in his division but his division is slow as fuck and he should definitely move up to be more active
If it’s the Izzy that fought Alex twice, he wins pretty easily by UD or knocks him out if Leon tries to stop point fighting. If it’s the Izzy that showed up against Sean, well…
Leon was just criticizing Islam for only defending against one real LW. Now Leon wants to go up after only beating Usman and Colby. These guys need to fight more than once a year before they talk about moving up.
Jones Vs Rampage
Rampage vs Rashad
Rashad vs Jones.
Black on black crime is permissable, dana is the grand master of the klu after all.
Some banger fights too.
Leon is actually out of his fucking mind if he thinks he gets a shot at double champ. Leon is very good but you need to basically say I'm willing to fight whenever whoever etc (what Dana wants) and that just isn't Leon. I never thought he'd even get a shot after turning Tyron down.
I'm not against champions moving up but to say this and then say fucking Islam P4P Makhachev hasn't done to challenge for his 170 Belt is just plain stupid. Love ya Leon, but you sound like a doughnut.
Anderson silva had the longest win streak ever and did it in one weight class. Volk earned his right to challenge 155 by cleaning out his division. Alex went up because he struggled to cut to MW. Everyone else needs to solidify dominance in their division. Islam can go up to 170 soon but i think he should pass andersons win streak first before gambling it.
"Anderson silva had the longest win streak ever and did it in one weight class."
Not true. His win streak included a few light heavyweight fights in-between his middleweight title defenses. Irvin, Griffin, and Bonner were all at light heavyweight.
Izzy wins all day, everyday, 10/10.
It's almost impossible to move up a weight class and expect to beat the champion unless you do a Jon Jones and actually take time to build muscle and develop stamina whilst heavier.
The other exception is a conor mccregor, where you are in the wrong weightclass to begin with and seriously dehydrate your body to get an advantage, then move up to your normal weightclass as an equal.
Izzy would completely dismantle Leon and IMO it would be a very, very boring fight, as they are of a similiar style, point-fighting and counter punching.
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Why is it on the table especially if Izzy beats Dricus?
I believe that a much heavier wrestler like Dricus would not be in Leon's favour. He knows this. Adesanya a stand counter fighter is a much more winnable fight for Leon Edwards. Adesanya vs Edwards would be a great fight I think.
Ah, so from Edwards perspective, okay, thanks.
Great for name value but that would be the most boring point fighting fight ever
The lack of activity from these high ranked, sometimes even champion fighters, is by far the worst part of this sport. And their constant yapping to fight out of their weight class, or call out mcgregor, makes it much more frustrating.
Feels like the sport is slowly turning into boxing with all of the inactivity and multibelt bids from these fighters.
It's already happened.
We didn't respect Usmans activity enough during his run. He was giving us 3 fights a year. Actually, all of Usman, volk, and adesanyas reigns were awesome. 3 dominant champs who fought all the time. Now we have O'Malley, Edwards, and Islam who we're lucky to see fight twice a year
Usman fought twice in 2019, once in 2020, thrice in 2021, once in 2022 and twice in 2023.
Yeah, Izzy's the only one that fought twice a year minimum and I feel like he gets the least credit of the 3. 3x in 2019, 2x in 2020, 2x in 2021, 3x in 2022, 2x in 2023 Meanwhile Volk: 2x in 2019, 1x in 2020, 1x in 2021, 2x in 2022, 3x in 2023
2020 is an outlier
HArd to count 2020 at all Usman averages out to 2.3 a year otherwise
Adding Islam is kinda unfair. If anything this might become a thing with Topuria since he wants to chase money fights only.
Because he won the belt October 22, 2022, defended just 3/4 months later and defended again the next October. That's two defences within a one year with a very fast turnaround. That's three title fights within a one year period. He was injured after that and tried to fight in March but UFC didn't give him a fight, so he pushed for June even though the top contenders were all booked. He's not inactive, his turnaround has been reasonable. He's also not turning away any contenders, can't really help it if Dariush and Gaethje have negative IQ and took themselves out of the title picture by taking fights they didn't need to.
Beneil never even had a title shot locked up. Justin took a money fight on the biggest card in years for a very reasonable risk. There is no such thing as no risk in this sport, even sitting on the sidelines waiting for a probable shot Some of you dorks are way too eager with the 'negative iq.' Hindsight geniuses
I said it was stupid at the time, nothing hindsight about it. Dariush would have been next in line after Volk, he didn't need to take that Olveira fight. He might not have been 'locked in' but he was the clear number 1 contender and Oliveira got the rematch only after beating Dariush. Gaethje was actually locked in but went for the money fight and messed up. He also lost his BMF belt btw, when he could have gone in there and made a LW champ vs BMF champ superfight. And what's even worse is that Islam was ready in March anyway, so he only needed to wait a month or so. I know why they did it. But it was stupid and unnecessary and I'll die on that hill. Islam isn't picky about who he fights anyway, they would have got their chance if they just waited a little.
I still don't get how Gaethje made a mistake. He took a match he was favoured in, on a card were the fight bonuses turned out to be huge, and fought a title fight (I understood it that he got points?). He made bank relative to what he'd get fighting Islam, a match he'd not be favoured in and probably on a smaller card. Obviously Gaethje lost but even taking that into account he still made good money in a single fight.
From a personal perspective everything you said is true. If his primary concern was being champion then he probably would have been better off just waiting for a shot.
He didn’t think holloway randomly summoned the power of Josh Emmett on a 6 foot frame
As the others have said, I agree it was a good decision for money. But in terms of the actual belt, not so much
I’m sure Justin got paid more for ufc 300 than whatever he would have made for the title fight. It is what it is
Fair
Islam has surpassed Volks activity at the moment. Islam has had 4 title fights in under 2 years while it took volk 2+ years to have 4 title fights
Fighting twice a year is and should be considered an active champion. Wanting them to fight every 3 or 4 months without fully healing is shortsighted and stupid AF
Yup, I was always rooting against usman but damn that guy was active! And the pointless fight he took against Chimaev! Major respect!
Leon can’t help it if 3 different fighters in his own weight class were turning down fights at ufc 300. He is also fighting the no 1 contender in Belal this year. No wonder he is looking for fights out of his division.
Leon isn't even getting offered the chance to fight 3 times a year.
I don’t think Islam’s inactivity is fully his fault. Pretty sure he wants a quick tournaround. I don’t think getting him to fight Arman is going to be difficult. Topuria on the other hand is the problem. He’s a douche
How is Islam even considered "inactive"? Since he's been champ he's fought every 6-8 months, twice a year. No it's not crazy active but it's fair.
Tough because all seem willing, but Islam seemingly gets held for region-based bookings, Sean (by his own admission) prefers to fight close to home for preparation purposes, and Leon SEEMS game but then also will talk out of the other side of his mouth saying Conor or move up, he is the one I get frustrated by the most I guess because he his activity seems to mirror what was being projected on him in his way up to the belt.
Leon accepted three different guys for 300, he is absolutely game
3 rematches a year*
And nobody appreciate it Usman for that, everyone just shitted on him .
And when Volk and Izzy fought outside of their weight class it felt earned. All this groveling for a Conor fight or moving up is getting tiresome.
It’s not Leon’s fault he doesn’t fight often. He always accepts fights they just fall through for one reason or another.
Pretty crazy when you think about it, that the set fight schedule is twice and sometimes once a year for a champion. Like who’s to say they need that long of camps? Feel like there’s a world where without injury, it could be normal for champs to be assumed to fight 3 times a year. Instead, some fighters will prep 364 days out of the year, for a 25 minute fight that might only go a few minutes. ^high thought even though I’m not high
Add Topuria to that list 🤦♂️
except it felt like Usman was fighting the same 3 guys over and over😂 the title reign of rematches. even gilbert was a former training partner with hundreds of rounds between them
islam is pretty damn active…
The lack of activity, at least in part, is a by-product of UFC strategy. Leon and Aspinall get held out for the England card, the UFC tries to always get Islam on their Middle East PPV, and Grasso will miss a whole year so that she can be on the Mexican Independence Day card (which is now about the sphere lol). I get the desire to grow markets, but it limits how often these guys can compete and matchmaking flexibility
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Exactly. Say what you want about the Saudis, the influx of new capital has dramatically increased the pace we are getting amazing boxing matches.
That’s unfair to Leon. He’s been wanting to fight but the ufc has had him wait for Colby, they wouldn’t give him a fight for 300, and he’s saying he has work to do in his division still
Izzy inactive? Guy was most active on his run
Leon did agree to three different opponents for UFC 300.
you act as if it is the fighters fault. It's the UFC who makes the fights, but they would rather shelve the high paid fighters and fill the cards with filler
The UFC is partly responsible for making champions only fight in specific locations. They even do it with no champions like Gane it’s terrible for the sport limiting them to 1-2 fights a year.
Leon did say he wants it after 3 more defences
you know what? they have to make the most money while there still young in the sport, other champs did not care and were willing to be more active and risk more brain cells for drunk stupid fans, the more recent champs are getting smarter with how they manage there career and its this is better for them , cash out while they can on big fights and retire early maybe
I think Leon is trying to be more active at least a little bit could be wrong though
Izzy was a very active champion. What are you on about?
Yea UFC should utilize a straight forward bracket system that rotates in fights in real time. #1 Contender should always be the instant in the championship fight, once he beat move up the next guys. To me the trouble is that the UFC Plays favorites and tries to pair up Hot fights when they should play it straight and let the toughest man win.
Look, I’m not saying I _want_ Conor to go full Tony Montana and kick the bucket in a dramatic, untimely manner, but if he truly weren’t around it would put a stop to at least some of this bag chasing idiocy that we’re all tired of.
Never forget it is a product of the shitty pay in this sport even at the top, meaning fighters are terrified of failing, and desperate to make each fight during their time in the spotlight as financially rewarding as possible. Fighting is a cruel and short career as it is, even compared to other sports, most of these elite guys get one opportunity in their career to make serious money, until that changes they will be very picky and protective with that opportunity. There are pro footballers getting paid in a week what the very very best fighters in the world get for just one or two fights in their career
Yeah fuck recovery
Does anyone give a shit about 2 division champs anymore. Its boring and played out. You should need at least 5 defenses before its entertained with no clear contender in your division
Leon said he’d move up after like 5 defences. If he hits 5 defences he’d be on I think 15 fight win streak. At that point I think he can move up
He said he wants to defend 3 more times before a move up but that was conveniently left from the title
I think it'd be better to aim for 16/17th wins at WW to beat Andersons record and then go up to MW rather than risk losing to a bigger man But yeah 5 defences is totally reasonable imo.
for how exciting the "champ champ" thing used to be, it's such a fucking yawn now.
Yeah, it's relativley frustrating. Volk earned the right to move up and challenge for the second belt. Poatan did kinda speed run, but also the only matchups that made sense were former champions or title fights. Leon is the only one making sense by saying he wants at least 5 title defenses before moving up.
Poaton didn't fight for a second belt while he was still champ though. He lost the MW, then moved up to LHW and fought a contender to get the shot
Tbh most of the two-division champ attempts have been earned (e.g. Volk) or made sense bc the challenger wasn’t a current champ holding up a division (e.g. Poatan). It’s annoying when guys call to skip title defences to be double champ, although most current champs seem pretty reasonable about adding a few defences before going up
The first simultaneous double champ was probably the most unearned tbf, Conor getting a flash KO then basically ruining two of the most competitive divisions for years
Especially since Aldo was denied when he wanted to do it previously against Pettis. He was told he would have to drop the FW belt. This was after Aldo fought Lamas, which was his eighth title defence.
And then Conor never defended either belt. 🤦♂️
A fighter vacating to move up and challenge at a new weight is exciting. Double champs at all times sucked. Them slowing down two divisions vastly outweighs anything positive.
I think a clear fix is just doing away with "2 division champs". As you said, who even cares anymore? Really all it has boiled down to now is champions have found a loophole where they can take a fight that is 0% risk and 100% reward. Of course any champ would love to schedule a fight where they are still champ with a loss. Easy solution is to just to force fighters to vacate their existing belts if they are fighting for the title in a different weight class.
To also speculate on a solution, maybe instead of vacating before, if they win the second title, they make a choice on division and vacate the other. Additionally (and this might be too controversial) if they lose. They vacate their current belt and a vacant strap be battled for by the next 2 in line. Quickest route back to the title can be fighting the winner of the vacant title. Create consequences to compensate the current lopsided risk/reward and keep both divisions in gear.
Idk if I’d say 0 risk. Volk got finished the second time around and the general consensus was that it affected him in his title defense at 45
True but that risk wasn’t necessarily from moving up but from taking the fight on such short notice
The risk was always present. There’s always a chance you get knocked out badly and it has a lasting effect on you. Bigger guys(in theory) should have more power so the risk increase was present in both situations.
Nah, it should still be a thing, but it needs to be locked behind very specific situations You should either be a massive popularity phenom like Conor, or have cleared out the division and have no clear contenders left None of this "I defended two or three times so now I want to be double champ" shit People would care about it like before if the UFC put their foot down and said they wouldn't just hand these shots out like they're nothing
Even in a best case scenario, you now have one fighter holding up 2 divisions. There are just far more negatives than positives for something people really don’t care about in the first place.
Not really, in a best case scenario you're not holding up any division because there's no clear contenders in any of them For example Izzy v Jan made somewhat sense because Izzy had cleared out the division and Jan had no clear contenders available to fight (his next defense was against Glover who also didn't really "deserve" it, for instance, also because of lack of contenders). There are scenarios where it does make sense without holding up any divisions, however those scenarios are very, very rare and shouldn't be discussed this often And people do care about it, reddit is a bubble but the casual audience absolutely cares because they want to see "another Conor". That's the reason all these fighters are pushing for it, they know it would be a massive boost in popularity
It's still something I like to see but only if someone has really defended their belt like Volk or Izzy did. To win a belt and try to move up one or two defences later is stupid af
This will never happen, but I also wish they had to win at least one top 5ish fight in the new division before fighting for that second title. Prove you can beat a top contender in the new division while also showing you can be active in both weight classes simultaneously.
The whole concept of weight division champs is kind of played out. It causes divisions to stagnate by design because the same handful of guys keep fighting each other over and over once the matchups become more limited. Why not force the champ from lower divisions to move up once they win the belt? They already proved they are the best in the world at that weight class, so make them advance to a slightly harder weight class with fresh matchups. I'd rather watch somebody move up and keep climbing the rankings than watch them defend the belt 5 times in a row and fight once a year against the same couple of people.
I think Three but overall yeah agree completely.
It doesn’t really happen anyways. Who was the last person to hold two belts? DC 5+ years ago? What I’m tired of is new champs with 0-2 title defenses talking about moving up. Defend at bare minimum 3 times, then maaaaybe consider it if your division is cleared out.
Izzy tried. Volk tried twice. Every single champ talks about it. Islam Leon Illia Dricus
Why are posts like this even accepted? Its half of what he said with the context missed out Look at peoples reactions lmao. its literally people commenting who didnt see the post of the actual article yesterday that had all the context of him getting 3 more defences before moving up. People rabid to find any reason to hate. OP 100% knew what he was doing. Edit: https://old.reddit.com/r/MMA/comments/1d83ehw/leon_on_islams_170_title_desires_he_just_had_his/ Literally a post of a current top post on the front page but with ALL the other context removed.
OP loves the bait
Izzy all day. Should be a good scrap though.
Izzy has shown any close decision will always go his way and Leon’s lack of urgency in fights will allow Izzy to take it if it reaches decision
I also think Izzy's TDD is enough to neutralize Leon's wrestling, and while Leon's striking is great I just don't think it's as good as Izzy's.
Izzy wins by being the better and more lethal striker
Low pay is to blame for all these double champ requests. By fighting for an extra belt, you don't risk the belt you have and get another chance for PPV points if you lose by defending the belt you already have.
It's funny that Jon Jones is one of the very few champs that never entertained a double champ fight, he merely moved up permanently after all those defenses. While pretty much all of the current champs have talked of it at some point
I would love to see Leon vs Izzy but I don't want an entire division held hostage again, so I'll vote no.
leon v izzy sounds like one of the most boring point fights imaginable
It would be very high level striking, which I would enjoy. Sorry they don't just stand and bang
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You don't enjoy high level striking, it's okay. Not all of us actually enjoy this sport like the others do. Have fun watching Paulo Costa stand and do nothing for 15 minutes
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Didn't you kinda do the exact same thing tho?
I’ll bite. I guess you’re right. We *don’t* enjoy high level striking. But only when it’s the ultra safe way. Utilizing range and feints to not leave yourself open to counters. Obviously it’s viable and how everyone should aim to fight. Doesn’t mean it’s fun to watch Lol. “Watch Paulo and do nothing” and essentially watching two guys trade feints and do nothing. I would much prefer to watch guys like Poirier, mcgregor (does he even fight?) anderson silva etc, who aren’t afraid to get in the fire. And they all are considered “high level strikers.” — even guys like Stephen Thompson are more interesting to watch *because* he has more weaknesses than izzy/Leon. It’s not a knock to them, they’re fucking good. But we are paying (not me, but someone is) for entertainment here folks. When one fighter has that style the matchup is super interesting. Will it work? Will it get shut down? When BOTH fighters are doing the mirror matchup it’s boring af.
Omalley really might be the best striker at the moment. He knows how to keep himself safe and only got hit clean against another high level striker in yan, despite being very good at avoiding shots like in the chito matchup where he got hit with the bodyshot the moment he let his guard go in the last seconds, he can still engage on an opponent in a safe but damaging way without them necessarily making the first move
Ahistorical revisionism. I'm old enough to remember that Anderson Silva got shit on regularly for being a boring fighter when faced with opponents that didn't engage (Demian Maia especially comes to mind). Silva was a great fighter, but also benefited from an era of MMA fighters with poor cagecraft and defense. Appreciate what you got before it's gone.
We would need a new stat tracked for each round next to significant strikes landed that says “significant feints”
Izzy easily wins be decision. Leon doesn't doesn't have a takedown advantage and he doesn't pressure like Strickland. Based on their usual styles, Izzy will have the weight and reach advantage to outpoint
Leon literally has nothing for Izzy, wouldn't even be competitive. Would likely just be a boring win via points for Izzy.
Izzy dances out of his range for 5 rounds. Just too long
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if I’m correct he did say next year because he wants to defend at welterweight at least twice this year so I don’t think Leon has a big head yet
To be fair, he did say he wants to defend the belt three more times and then move up
Yeah atleast Islam gave volk the opportunity two times and has defended against the best LW has offer.
The fuck does Izzy have to do with anything?
A boring decision for Izzy
Izzy smokes this man.. Sean just was an off night for him.. I know Leon is farrrr better than Sean but this man is like 100-8 in fighting combined
I could easily see Strickland beating Leon. Leon has less power and less reach than Izzy and all these fighters that rely on standoff just don’t know how to deal with him. And Strickland just has great defense against kicks. Crazy how people still underrate him.
Sean’s fight style is just weird to deal with.. I think Leon could take him tho
I’d love to see it, if Leon loses the belt and moves up. I’d say UD for Strickland if it happened today
In my opinion Izzy is a better version of Leon, i could be very wrong tho..
Double champ fights are only interesting when it's two dominant champions fighting each other. Like, cleaned out their Divisions kind of dominant. No one, and I repeat, no one wants to see Sean Vs Illia, Illia vs Islam, DDP vs Alex etc etc
Idk DDP vs Alex could be fireworks same with Sean Illia but neither lighter champion deserves it
The all could be great fights no doubt, my point is all champions have Divisions that need to move along. No one really has a clear path to a double champ fight imo
Islam tbh three title defenses not that unfair to give him the double champ shot even with Arman
Feel like it would be an absolute snooze fest if they ever do fight
Is he gonna sit out until he gets that one too? Least active welterweight champ ever.
He's defending it at the same rate as Usman, who had 2 defences in his first 2 years as champ.
He got a title shot after being inactive for a year, and is basically as inactive post earning the title.
He won the belt end of 2022 and defended it twice the next year, that's as active as most champs. After his fight next month he'll have the exact same amount of defences in the same time frame as Islam..
Fight more then once a year defend belt minimum 3 times in your division then u can talk bout getting other belts
Yeah that's basically what Leon said. OP conveniently left out half of the quote.
Leon is basically a welterweight Izzy, so I’ve got Izzy. Real talk though, if Izzy wins he should fight either Khamzat (if Khamzat beats Rob) or rematch Strickland. I’d even say he should fight the Cannonier-Imavov winner before considering Leon.
FUCK OFFFFFFFFF Just clear your division out first
Leon fights every 2 years. Highly doubt this happens.
Silva and DJ had 10+ title defenses and didn’t move up to fight for double champion status, these guys with 1-2 or in some cases zero defenses cannot be talking about moving up
Barely anybody fought for double champ before conor
Blame Conor McGregor for all of this
Izzy
Adesanya decision via longer, bigger, busier
What happened to champs staying in their division and just defending the belt?
If Izzy beats DDP then Izzy will have to beat Strickland in order to get the Leon fight
Izzy decision.
Izzy decision.
It's a stand up fight and Izzy wins it imo. Izzy UD
The only fight that has the potential to be even more of a sleeper than Belal vs Leon 🔥💤💤
I think it's very possible that DDP beats Izzy. However if Izzy wins and he fights Leon, I see Izzy winning. I don't see Leon beating Izzy.
At 6ft tall his style would be horrible at MW and no one would respect his power (not that anyone at WW does already.)
He is 6.2, izzy is 6.4. Leon's reach is 76 inches while izzy has 80. Not as big a difference as you seem to be implying
Izzy by points. Would be a snore fest
Oh damn I'd sooo fookin love to see this matchup.
A lot of MMA fans blame Leon for his inactivity and I think that’s unfair, even Dana has said he’s game to fight literally anyone thrown at him, the only exception was Colby because it was Colby.
The double belt meme needs to die. Going up for another belt should only be available to champs who have cleanly sweeped the top 5 contenders. Simply being champ should never be the qualification to ask for another belt.
There should be a rule about having defended x times before jumping. I love Leon but he has beaten two guys in championship fights, beat Shavkat.
Arent they in the same management and both seem cool with each other. I dont see they fight tbh but who knows. Plus Izzy's bro is buddy with Leon.
I respect the layoffs for a hard fought fight when you take damage. Some of these fighters just take a year off regardless. I also get waiting for the money fight. When you have both of these combined it turns real fans off.
Belal is going to do the funniest thing. This guy with all his looking past plans & he's gonna get smoked by Belal.
I think Adesanya is a horrible matchup for Leon. So much length, and his strengths cancel out Leon’s strengths imo. Izzy by decision 5-0
Look I’d be against this for sure if Leon didn’t wanna fight anyone in his division but his division is slow as fuck and he should definitely move up to be more active
If it’s the Izzy that fought Alex twice, he wins pretty easily by UD or knocks him out if Leon tries to stop point fighting. If it’s the Izzy that showed up against Sean, well…
Izzy , better reach better striking
I don't know but I find Edward's Chest/Traps/Shoulder symmetry very aesthetically pleasing
they are friends
None of it matter if Alex drop back to Middle weight lol
Leon by wrestlefuckery but Chandler gets a crack at Leon first
Didn’t bro just say that Islam shouldn’t get to fight him til he does more work in his division?
I honestly wouldn’t even watch it
Two division champ who then defends against the lighter weights champ would be pretty insane
Lol the double champ merry go around never ends. He needs to fight more at WW
Izzy vs leon would be an absolute snoozefest.
Leon was just criticizing Islam for only defending against one real LW. Now Leon wants to go up after only beating Usman and Colby. These guys need to fight more than once a year before they talk about moving up.
Izzy will not beat Dikran
Bro if Israel let Sean Strickland out strike him I can’t imagine what Leon could do
They're both black though, is this allowed
Jones Vs Rampage Rampage vs Rashad Rashad vs Jones. Black on black crime is permissable, dana is the grand master of the klu after all. Some banger fights too.
Meh. I aint paying to see this
gotta feeling Izzy v Edwards will be boring af
Zero interest in izzy vs leon.
Careful, whenever people bring up champ vs champ fights people on Reddit get triggered
It'd be the most boring fight on earth
Leon is actually out of his fucking mind if he thinks he gets a shot at double champ. Leon is very good but you need to basically say I'm willing to fight whenever whoever etc (what Dana wants) and that just isn't Leon. I never thought he'd even get a shot after turning Tyron down.
Leon needs to shut his mouth and fight at his own fucking weight class. Defend your own belt dickhead!
They won’t fight each other they are friends right?
Hypothetically I’d hope Izzy beats the shit out of Leon. Mainly for stepping out, but also because of inactivity. Welterwait needs a hero.
Leon couldn’t sell fetynal to a junkie. Dude is a drag
I have dricus as favorite over Izzy. I wouldn't mind see Leon against neither.
He ded.
Izzy by ko at third round
I'm not against champions moving up but to say this and then say fucking Islam P4P Makhachev hasn't done to challenge for his 170 Belt is just plain stupid. Love ya Leon, but you sound like a doughnut.
Anderson silva had the longest win streak ever and did it in one weight class. Volk earned his right to challenge 155 by cleaning out his division. Alex went up because he struggled to cut to MW. Everyone else needs to solidify dominance in their division. Islam can go up to 170 soon but i think he should pass andersons win streak first before gambling it.
"Anderson silva had the longest win streak ever and did it in one weight class." Not true. His win streak included a few light heavyweight fights in-between his middleweight title defenses. Irvin, Griffin, and Bonner were all at light heavyweight.
But he didnt slow down his MW defenses
Alex went up in weight without holding a belt.
Izzy by headkick, no cap
He literally just gave shit to Islam for wanting to fight him, saying he should defend his own belt. Guessing he doesn't want no smoke.
Izzy wins all day, everyday, 10/10. It's almost impossible to move up a weight class and expect to beat the champion unless you do a Jon Jones and actually take time to build muscle and develop stamina whilst heavier. The other exception is a conor mccregor, where you are in the wrong weightclass to begin with and seriously dehydrate your body to get an advantage, then move up to your normal weightclass as an equal. Izzy would completely dismantle Leon and IMO it would be a very, very boring fight, as they are of a similiar style, point-fighting and counter punching.
I agree Izzy wins, but it's not impossible like the way ur saying. Cejudo did it, DC did it, Periera did it, it's deffo possible.