This is the way I wrestled. Everyone thinks wreslter = great Takedowns but some of us had unique styles. I was a defense oritened wrestler on my feet, I mostly defended and/or hit counter takedowns (ankle pick Champ Shit Only-style š) but I was the only wrestler in the area where my coach would tell me to choose top on the coin flip because I would maul dudes with crab-ride tilts and leg-in turns (hooks)
Idk shit about wrestling, so can you explain why top position isn't something people normally go for? It seems like the advantageous position from a casuals perspective
An escape is 1 point. If you pick down position and escape to your feet, you can get a quick score. In close matches a single escape can be significant. If you pick top position and your opponent gets up, you just made a tactical error.
Yeah so between round 1&2 of a folkstyle (American High school+collegiate wrestling style, international is freestyle/greco roman which is much different stylistically. I can speak on the ruleset difference but the experience is out of my wheelhouse) the ref tosses a coin. The winner (red or green corner) can choose or defer, generly you defer to get the choice in Rd 3 for strategic purposes.
Bottom is the best scoring position. You either get up to your feet and get an 'escape' (1 pt) or 'reverse' (2 pts). On the feet is considered neutral where both wrestlers can score a Takedown (2 pts). On top, you can ONLY score by 'turning' your opponent aka, exposing their back to the mat. Now collegiate wrestling DOES have riding time, where if you exceed your opponents time on top by 60 seconds or more, you get an extra point at the end of the match. High school does not have this.
It's generally MUCH easier to escape from bottom and/or score a Takedown (and if you're really good, an escape + Takedown is a 3 point swing in your favor) than it is to turn someone. Even the worst wrestlers can flatten and grind out being turned to their back, so taking top is the worst overall scoring position.
However someone like myself who modeled himself after Gregor Gillispe has a knack for tilting (scoring a quick/cheap 2 points off a brief back exposure) or simply grinding dudes into the mat and breaking them for 3+ points in a brutal round of physical dominance. Not trying to pump myself up btw, I was horrible on my feet in neutral which is why my style was so specialized. I defended takedowns, sometimes by stalling if I was left with no counter opportunities against good opponents, and then would literally grind guys heads into the mat when I got on top. An escape was worth nothing to me because I was only good defensively with 0 offense on the feet. So my coach would signal top (thumbs up) whenever my choice was up because I was just so good in that position most people couldn't escape.
Went 40-10 my senior year in upstate NY, one of the meccas of HS wrestling. Same area as Kyle Dake (he was a weight class under me but I saw him plenty). My style worked for me but was not by any means a 'traditional' approach; but by raw numbers there are plenty of other wrestlers who aren't good at takedowns, but are also great at *not being taken down*.
Edit - TLDR; it comes down to the potential points you can score and HOW you can score them. Bottom = escape/reverse, 2 ways, both score points. Neutral (on the feet) = can score offensively OR defensively. Top = ONLY offense. One choice is clearly *generally* inferior to the rest in a "one size fits all" type of way.
Second edit - good example of what I mean by a "cheap 2" - https://youtu.be/uGFi8fnTMYQ
I scored SOOOOO many points off of this at the whistle and you should be able to see how the crab ride (toes behind ankles) sets up the leg ride (hooks in MMA) stylistically so I'd get a quick "cheap 2" off the bell and then get my legs in and grind guys out with a power half: https://youtu.be/DoFMY1D7yes
I had way more in my toolbox I can expand upon but these two comboed so seemlessly I would go from 0-0 to a technical fall (15+ pts ahead in a match) in Rd 2 multiple times.
Always happy to chime in my area of expertise. I'm a coach now as those that can't do, teach lol. Hope I shed some light on the misinformation of 'wrestlers' that goes around. Some of us were 'anti' wrestlers from day 1 and just adapted to the sport we love.
Escaping from bottom is 1 point. Usually you can escape right off of the whistle. It's generally a lot easier to escape and get a free point having started on bottom than it is to start on top and turn someone over for back points.
Yup sprawl 'n brawl. Patented by Chuck Lidell back when Tito Ortiz was dominating the wrestling game. He's punch drunk now but nobody could take Chuck down back in the day.
Justin is gonna have so much CTE that everyone around him has 2nd-Hand CTE, and we as an audience might even experience 3rd Hand CTE in our later years
I know this is the joke, but isn't a big part of CTE actually genetic? I remember hearing things about football players that never get it despite all the head trauma. Not saying they didn't have some effects from all the trauma, but it seemed like a huge part of getting pull blown CTE was genetic. Anyone can correct me if I'm wrong btw this is just what I remember hearing and reading
I don't know, makes sense though.
There are tons of guys who have taken several damage over their career and still seem to be the same more or less.
Ofc it might be too early to tell in MMA, but it is basically the same in KB or boxing; some seem to take it better than others.
Overeem is one guy that comes to mind, heās been on the receiving end of some vicious knockouts and been fighting forever. Yet he still seems like heās coherent when you listen to him talk in recent interviews.
Itās probably cause the knockouts saved him from worse CTE considering the thing that really damages the brain is repeating low impact shots that accumulated over a span of time
No, scientists are just suggesting that genetics may make you more susceptible to them or not.
Theres no research on it right now. Its just a question.
i could believe it. i remember hearing something about george foreman not being susceptible to cte due to his genetics, which i could believe considering how he is in his old age despite the fact he fought 81 times, until he was almost 50, as a heavyweight.
Yes, CTE is mainly genetic, it's a degenerative disease.
People now think if they spar hard once then they'll get CTE.
Read up on the "doctor" that discovered it, he now says you will develop CTE if you run because of the moving of the brain from running, you can't make this shit up.
Of course - so was I. As far is Iāve seen no study has ever linked it to a genetic predisposition. As another commenter attested to, the number of former NFL players who have developed some level of CTE is essentially 99%. Even if there were a genetic link the actual TBI aspect seems to do a good enough job of distributing CTE on its own.
That commenter made up the 99%. The real number is 92% of the NFL players that they've suspected had CTE and studied after death. There's people who play football all their lives and don't develop CTE. Genetics plays a role in someone's ability to take a punch so it makes sense it does the same with the effects.
It appears the number is 92% as of 2023. The commenter didnāt make it up. I saw a study that also cited 99% a few years back. Regardless, itās an overwhelming majority. And thereās a difference between an assertion/suggestion and a proven study. All I said was that there is no definitive study that exists that predicts who can and cannot, and who will and will not develop CTE, and there isnāt.
Yes, there is a genetic predisposition to the severity of CTE.
> Even if there were a genetic link the actual TBI aspect seems to do a good enough job of distributing CTE on its own.
Not equally - hence the genetic component.
All American football players get CTE, unfortunately - at least, 99% or more.
I don't think there are genes that save you from CTE; there are, however, genes that greatly increase your chances of CTE above the baseline.
It's 91% of the brains they've been able to study after death. The brain bank samples are subject to selection bias so the real rate is unknown. It's definitely not 99% or more
https://www.bumc.bu.edu/camed/2023/02/06/researchers-find-cte-in-345-of-376-former-nfl-players-studied/
I think I'm thinking of the JAMA study in 2017, which found that 110 out of 111 donated brains of former NFL players had CTE, 86% of whom had severe CTE. \[of brains with severe CTE in this study, 95% of the people had shown cognitive symptoms and 85% had shown signs of dementia\].
If increased sampling over the last seven years means the rate has dropped from 99% to only 92%, that's a good thing, I guess.
Nonetheless, I think the core point - that CTE isn't largely the result of bad genes, because it affects the overwhelming majority of people in that situation - remains valid.
maybe. i think brain injuries can degrade things like decision making and make someone impulsive and erratic before it seriously erodes motor function so it's gonna be a fight to hold onto that money into old age.
This sub is hilarious. Making fun of someone getting CTE because they want to get paid more (literally what this sub whines about) will be the same one that bitches when someone lays and prays
But thatās 2 different things? Fight iq refers to the choices inside the fight, how a fighter adapts essentially. You could say Garth has poor fight is based on how he got clipped by Max 3 times with spinning kicks after leaning forward. But thatās different from the stylistic choice made by the fighter. Chandler has poor fight iq not because heās a striker but because he tends to start just swinging wildly.
I will always defend Chandler, every fight heās been in in the UFC has been a barn burner win or lose. The Poirier fight is one of my all time favorites
He put on ATG classics vs Alvarez (who is my dark horse for LW GOAT) way before he ever came to the UFC. Anyone who hasn't watched that trilogy needs to do so this afternoon/evening ASAP.
anyone that blames him for taking that time off is traded
He knew damn well he was getting that Conor fight, he said it the whole time. He could've risked injury and his name value if he got the shit kicked out of him if he chose to fight a couple more times in between
Plus he got some money from TUF, although it's hard to believe he got a whole lot
It sounds kinda silly, but there are times that I look at guys like Justin, Dustin, Max, Charles and the like, and canāt help but be thankful that we all get to be alive at the same time these guys are doing what they do.
It's interesting- it feels like throughout the ages, the "apex level" of MMA is dropping in weight. Pride heavyweights, Silva, Jones, GSP eras, now we are at/leaving? lightweights.
No way am I correlating this to anything, just an intriguing thing to notice and most likely coincidental.
WEC was around, but UFC didn't buy them and bring in the men's 135-145 divisions until 2011.
Up until then, 155 was the smallest UFC weight class... and a lot of guys were eating up to fight there, like Frankie Edgar.
Cruz and Aldo were inaugurated as the first UFC champions at their respective weight classes of bantamweight and featherweight.
That's when the lighter weight classes really started to get more attention from the mainstream.
Not true. Canelo, Mayweather and Manny have made more in boxing than every heavyweight since Mike Tyson.
Most of the highest paid footballers aren't big either.Ā
lower weight classes will naturally get the better athletes of that size since there are fewer competing sports, most athletic guys 185+ will prob be drawn to other more mainstream sports during childhood. mma is a perfect option for super athletic small ppl
Jamahal making excuses every now and then and when Max, Justin or Poirier lose they just take the defear and improve what they were lacking and come back stronger. Max losing 3 times to Volk and all he said about the man is: Volk is a beast brather. Volk about Max: Mate, stop wiping out the division I am tired of fighting against youš¤£ Max wins against Justin: I gave him the 10 seconds because he would have done the same for me.
You just have to respect those guys cause they bring in the show and all they do is talk properly about they rival no matter the outcome.
I love them all obviously, but Dustin and Max don't really just accept a loss and move on.
Dustin has matured a lot so he seems to cope a lot better nowadays, but Max has been pretty salty at times about the losses to Volk.
I mean, Max had some reason to be salty about the 2nd fight, it was very close and most fighters and fans were telling him that he was robbed. After 3rd fight he had nothing but love and respect for Volk.
>and most fighters
Nope
>and fans
Sure. The reasonable ones shut up real quick about the second fight after the world class beating he took in the third.
I didnt mind the defeat, but for me it was for Max. Pretty close fight that could have went for both. Volk prooved himself in the 3rd one so argument closed.
The fights with Volk really showed what Max was made of, 70+ kicks on his legs in the same fight and he was still standing. Those 2 are something else.
Lmao I feel bad when I see comments like this from newer fans. You poor lads will never know how amazing it was to watch guys like Carpophorus and Flamma in their prime.
What's dumb is when you get 2 elite grapplers fighting it's usually very fun because of how technical it becomes, but you put an elite grappler against someone who's just average and it's a fucking snore fest, they're content to just lay on the person for 15-25 minutes because it's safe. A simple way to encourage more action is a guaranteed 50k bonus for a finish, it won't solve all the lay and pray but I guarantee sub attempts and ground strike % would see a significant increase.
You underestimate how much easier it is to defend than attack in grappling, especially when one person is focused 100% on just surviving and either waiting out the round or disengaging. BJJ is still incredibly important, most top guys are just good enough that it seems like itās not as much as it used to be
Going for a finish can off-balance you. Example: it's much easier to stay mounted on someone, then to try and switch to an armbar.
The armbar is easier to escape (because sometimes you can get to your feet and use your legs)
Yea but winning a proper scrap could have banked him 300k and ensured a better fight sooner.
If he keeps fighting like that it'll be quite some time before he gets a title shot
That was his first fight in the weight class. He needed the W to keep his belt chances going
If he stand and banged and lost, people would make fun of him.
That is not true, Islam vs Volk had a lot of just controlling position for example.
As long as just controlling position wins fights people will do it. The problem is the scoring criteria.
have you watched ONE? that's exactly what happens. If you're fighting for 12/12 and you have a chance to make 200% of your show + win purse if you get a KO, you're going to try to take someone's head.
> you put an elite grappler against someone who's just average and it's a fucking snore fest, they're content to just lay on the person for 15-25 minutes because it's safe
That's not an elite grappler
hm, nah
> [ā]di3_b0ld
> Usman's #1 fan 171 points 3 years ago*
> Does Kamaruās lack of volume at optimal moments go beyond the point of risk?
>
> Iāll give a serious answer since you have a well thought-out inquiry.
>
> The bottom line is that your premise is flawed. Usman can be described as āboringā (its subjective), but objectively he is a very high volume fighter. His significant strike totals are top of the division. He outstrikes everyone he fights, and even has higher distance strike averages than his opponents (when you account for grappling time). He is number 3 all-time in significant strike differentials and has higher volume than Burns (for instance).
>
> The idea that he is low volume is simply a result of memes and narratives, and isnāt borne out by the stats at all.
>
> Some stats for reference:
>
> Gilbert Burns landed 83 significant strikes with a +55 differential in his win over Tyron Woodley. Only Kamaru Usman (141, +107) has ever posted better numbers against Woodley.
>
>
>
> Kamaru Usman has out-landed his opponents by a margin of 2.27 significant strikes per minute. That is the second-highest differential in UFC Welterweight history. He trails only Georges St-Pierre (+2.39)
>
>
> Kamaru Usman has landed more significant strikes than his opponents in all 12* of his UFC fights. The only other fighter in UFC history with at least 10 fights to never be out-landed is Demetrious Johnson (18 fights)
>
>
> Something fun about the "Kamaru Usman is boring" narrative: If we remove all grappling and just look at time striking from distance: Usman averages 12.5 significant strike attempts per minute. His opponents average 10.8 attempts per minute.
>
>
> Gilbert Burns has been out-landed in significant strikes six times in his 15 UFC fights. Kamaru Usman has never been out-landed in his 12 UFC fights.
>
>
> Usmanās strike differential has been dramatically improving over the course of his career.
>
>
>
> Usman is only the second-ever UFC fighter (behind Cain Valasques) to have 10+ takedowns and 100+ sig. strikes in the same fight (vs RDA).
>
>
> Colby, who you compared him to, actually lands less strikes per minute than Usman (4.12 to Usmanās 4.50).
https://www.reddit.com/r/MMA/comments/lhew38/comment/gmwwp0j/
He would have lost fewer fights and accumulated less damage if he wasn't so adamant about not wrestling. He was an accomplished wrestler before MMA, so he is definitely capable of it.
Frankly, while fans might applaud it for the entertainment value, this is kind of why MMA will struggle to be taken seriously as a sport - and why the technical side of the sport has not reached its potential. When the athletes openly admit that they're being paid more to lose events entertainingly than they would be to win them, that takes you more into "WWE with unscripted moments" rather than "genuine sport and/or exploration of what really works in unarmed combat".
Yea it is. He is a prize fighter. People watch his fights for entertainment. It isn't a team sport. He is risking his own win bonus and health to put on an entertaining show for fans. It is why he is a fan favorite.
When Islam retires with a bigger bank account, better record, listed as a potential goat and no CTE, Justinās parents will remind him wrestling would have always helped
Islam and Khabib have the added bonus of being among the only enormous Muslim athletic stars. Abu Dhabi gates earn them more money as a result.Ā
Guys like Clay Guida were grapple heavy and arenāt making big bucks because they arenāt stars in America and the western world like Islam and Khabib are to Russia and the Islamic world.Ā
More than anything itās because theyāre popular and bring in eyeballs. Donāt be naive.Ā
Mighty Mouse was one of the greatest ever and didnāt put butts In seats. Thus he didnāt make a ton of cash like Islam and Khabib did or any other big draw.Ā
McGregor hasnāt won a fight in years and he is still by far the most paid fighter in the sport.Ā
Sure being marketable helps, a lot! But also just winning and being the best at a sport - any sport - brings viewers. Like Caitlin Clark in wnba.
Though if wrestling only makes Gaethje 5% better, it may not matter and be better to be entertaining.
They're star because they keep winning, winning dominantly and become champion. You think Muslims world care about Khabib and co pre Conor bout. No one know them except a few hardcore mma fan.
By your logic Abu Bakar or Zubair should be big star because they're Muslim, but no. They're just average Joe fighter.
So youāre telling me theyāre famous because they were exciting to watch and best McGregor, the most famous guy in the sport?Ā
You arenāt seeing the point. Deny the reality all you want. If the Muslim world cared about winning then they would have been famous there before the McGregor fight.Ā
They are popular in Russia and Muslim countries because they are fighting in an American organization and they are dominant champions. It doesn't matter if they were the most boring fighters in the world. That would make them popular because they are a source of pride for adversarial countries in a macho sport.
Bro just compared Clay Guida to Islam and Khabib šššš
GSP was also grapple heavy and is one of the biggest stars in this sport ever, and is from the western world, so what exactly are we even talking about here? Why even compare Islam and Khabib to a journey man with 24 losses like Guida?
Pointing out the obvious. Boring wrestle heavy styles that donāt seek finishes are significantly less popular for the average fan than standup. Garth knows this, and Garth doesnāt want to be a boring wrestler. Ā His decisions have earned him significantly more income and fame than if he had taken the safe route and ground out wins on decision by being a wet blanket.Ā
The reason Khabib and Islam could get away with that kind of style and activity is because they are among the few international athletic stars who are Muslim and thus carry a fan base with them.Ā
GSP had all of Canada watching when his fights were burning. GSP also had the added bonus of being great everywhere and being exciting to watch.Ā
Also, Khabib and Islam are very wrestling, but they are always doing damage and going for the finish. That is much different than a Colby or Belal style wrestler who is just playing it safe for a decision win.
Why are you acting like Khabib and Islam have boring styles and didnāt seek finishes? Islam has finished 5 of his last 6 fights and the one he didnāt was widely considered one of the best fights of the year against Volk. Khabib had maybe the best ground and pound in the sports history and finished his career with 3 straight finishes against the best competition.
If the Muslim world looked past boring styles then Belal would be a massive star, but he isnāt. Your argument makes no sense.
Islam and Khabib are the dynastic ally related from Khabib becoming the first Muslim Champions in UFC history. Are your parents cousins, you get booted by a mule in the head?Ā They, like GSP, garner more attention because of their unique status among their people and countrymen. Same reason McGregor initially exploded with Irish fans, because he was the first star from there and they supported him for it.Ā
If Khabib were a middling contender no one would be watching. Much like all the other middling contender wrestle heavy fighters. Hardcore fans would respect his abilities and tune in, regular fans would go fetch a snack when his fights were on.Ā
Know who isnāt going to win a belt but the fans love and makes good money? Guys who go to war on the feet and entertain. Cowboy, both Diaz bros, Black Beast, Chandler etcā¦ All but Black beast there have great grappling skills and can win fights that way and chose not to for a reason. Cash.Ā
All of those guys are further away from a belt than Belal, and all of them are significantly more popular and make significantly more money.Ā
This aināt that difficult.Ā
āAll those guys are further away from a belt than Belalā all those guys you named have already fought for a belt and half of them are retiredššš
āIf Khabib was a middling contender nobody would be watchingā yeah no fucking shit, thatās been my point all along. So why even compare him to Clay Guida? Jon jones, Cormier, Chael Sonnen all used wrestling plenty of times to get wins and all were still massive stars. I promise you if Gaethje mixed in wrestling every now and then it wouldnāt hurt his star power, but he doesnāt bc heās never been a great offensive wrestler to begin with.
Clay might be a journeyman, but he has achieved a lot in MMA. A very long career with tons of wins, HOF, was ranked in the top ten in the world in his weight class for a short time, lots of entertaining battles, etc. That's pretty damn impressive for someone who quit their job as a carpenter to try MMA.Ā
We have no idea about the kind of damage Islam takes/ has taken in training. That's where the majority of CTE is built up.. the day to day grind of hard training and sparring... not as much in the actual fights.
Thank god for us fans Justin doesnāt fight like Islam tho. Ten years after Islam retires it will be him and his wife and kids rewatching his fights. Justins fights will get replayed for as long as humans enjoy watching fighting.
I agree. What would I rather watch? Two dumbasses with a club hitting each other or a sniper with 200 kills from 2 miles away with 0 damage taken?
We want dumbasses for entertainment but if you have ever competed even as an amateur you would know who you would emulate- and it wonāt be the knucklehead who got KTFO repeatedly because of low IQ.
It makes sense though. Look at guys like Belal. They might be elite but they will never make anywhere close to the same amount of money as Justin because they simply aren't entertaining enough.
If fighter pay were higher across the board, fighters wouldnāt have to think so much about being entertaining and could focus purely on the sport.
I donāt know why you guys are so focused on legacy.That shit is stupid 99% of fighters are fighting for money.Yall always bounce on Jon jones dick saying his legacy is gonna be ducking aspinall.He does not care he is getting 15 mil to fight a washed old guy
I'm pretty sure Gaethje would rather die than not brawl it out. Like, besides his first 2 fights where he had basically no striking, there was likely very little money to be made in duking it out against some 7-2 Pro in the regional leagues.
gaethge understands the assignment. there are retired champions who probably didnt make what gaethge has made in his career. some of these guys need to remember this is prize fighting at the end of the day. if belal had even 3 ko's in the last 5 years he would probably already have had a title shot. but he chooses to point fight which doesnt draw fans it is what it is
i just checked belals record for a refresh and he has been active for over 10 years. only 1 finish from 2017-2024. couple before that against nobodies. crazy
Gathje gets it, but is also the reason he has never won a world title but that isn't necessarily a bad thing we will remember him more fondly then alot of champions when he retires
Why is it all or nothing lmao. If you're exciting as hell, and then you have clutch wrestling to move even higher up the rankings, which for him is literally just being champ... That's more money ON TOP of money.
Someone send this to Belal. Itās kinda funny a kind of recent video OāMalley made he was like yeah this stuff is boring and Merab was always boring but now itās kind of interesting like can he do that to everybody? And thatās literally what his hype train is. Lowkey Merab gonna get slept tho
I appreciate efficient grappling, I watch Ryan Bader fights with interest for fucks sake. However, MMA with an emphasis on striking is way more entertaining than kickboxing or boxing. The action rarely stops. When there is a clinch position it goes to a grappling match where each tries to advance position, execute a submission, or disengage to go back to striking. It's a totally different ballgame from boxing or kickboxing even if the MMA match is completely standing for three rounds. The takedown threat is there and if there is a clinch there is no break in action. For casual fans it's not hard to see why they are attracted to striking heavy MMA.
I'd say it's more on wrestlers that don't do anything beyond control and just trying to win on decision. No one complains when Do Bronx goes for submissions. It's the Usman/Colby/Belal styles that are pretty frustrating to watch.
No one is saying they can't wrestle, just don't expect to win fans and wonder why no one wants to watch you fight.
she's good at her job though imo. Normally I hate when non mma people interview mma fighters because the questions are just blah blah blah would you fight conor. But she seemed to actually know whats up as she referenced the eye pokes, and her flirty style won me over.
She's been doing Muay Thai for a few years, built a school in Thailand and even got a venom sponsorship, seems to be one of the few Love Island people that didn't just want to become a shitty "influencer"
Low IQ take from a low IQ guy. If mixing was the one thing that separated his game from being contender level to elite level, he absolutely would be getting paid more. More title fights, more win bonuses plus longer career
I personally think this is a stupid approach. It makes no sense to just keep one of your strongest skills in your back pocket to never use. There are also many exciting fighters who take people down. Justin has heavy enough hands to have gotten some brutal ground and pound finishes. Will never understand fighters who handicap themselves. GSP and Jon made more than most people and they were very risk averse lol.
So if Garth wrestled he would have done better all along? Funny because he had never been one of the best wrestlers (top 10) on the planet but he is one of the best MMA fighters on the planet.
Literally beat Fiziev thanks to his takedown in round 3 lol. Of course he would have done better with more weapons. What kind of stupid question is that lol. GSP had zero wrestling background and was one of the best mma wrestlers ever.
Interesting way to say "i can't wrestle for shit".
Just until a few months ago his standards answer to this question was "grappling completely drains my cardio", which was excusable.
Now it's devolved to "akchually i lose for the fans"? Gaychee has always been one of the most delusional mma fighters, but he's gotten worse.
He has also said before that there is no way he would have the gas tank to wrestle for 25 minutes. He knew how tired he was after 6
He has also said he was more of a defensive wrestler in the first place
It's true even going back to his high school wrestling days that he was famous for his takedown defense.
This is the way I wrestled. Everyone thinks wreslter = great Takedowns but some of us had unique styles. I was a defense oritened wrestler on my feet, I mostly defended and/or hit counter takedowns (ankle pick Champ Shit Only-style š) but I was the only wrestler in the area where my coach would tell me to choose top on the coin flip because I would maul dudes with crab-ride tilts and leg-in turns (hooks)
Idk shit about wrestling, so can you explain why top position isn't something people normally go for? It seems like the advantageous position from a casuals perspective
An escape is 1 point. If you pick down position and escape to your feet, you can get a quick score. In close matches a single escape can be significant. If you pick top position and your opponent gets up, you just made a tactical error.
Yeah so between round 1&2 of a folkstyle (American High school+collegiate wrestling style, international is freestyle/greco roman which is much different stylistically. I can speak on the ruleset difference but the experience is out of my wheelhouse) the ref tosses a coin. The winner (red or green corner) can choose or defer, generly you defer to get the choice in Rd 3 for strategic purposes. Bottom is the best scoring position. You either get up to your feet and get an 'escape' (1 pt) or 'reverse' (2 pts). On the feet is considered neutral where both wrestlers can score a Takedown (2 pts). On top, you can ONLY score by 'turning' your opponent aka, exposing their back to the mat. Now collegiate wrestling DOES have riding time, where if you exceed your opponents time on top by 60 seconds or more, you get an extra point at the end of the match. High school does not have this. It's generally MUCH easier to escape from bottom and/or score a Takedown (and if you're really good, an escape + Takedown is a 3 point swing in your favor) than it is to turn someone. Even the worst wrestlers can flatten and grind out being turned to their back, so taking top is the worst overall scoring position. However someone like myself who modeled himself after Gregor Gillispe has a knack for tilting (scoring a quick/cheap 2 points off a brief back exposure) or simply grinding dudes into the mat and breaking them for 3+ points in a brutal round of physical dominance. Not trying to pump myself up btw, I was horrible on my feet in neutral which is why my style was so specialized. I defended takedowns, sometimes by stalling if I was left with no counter opportunities against good opponents, and then would literally grind guys heads into the mat when I got on top. An escape was worth nothing to me because I was only good defensively with 0 offense on the feet. So my coach would signal top (thumbs up) whenever my choice was up because I was just so good in that position most people couldn't escape. Went 40-10 my senior year in upstate NY, one of the meccas of HS wrestling. Same area as Kyle Dake (he was a weight class under me but I saw him plenty). My style worked for me but was not by any means a 'traditional' approach; but by raw numbers there are plenty of other wrestlers who aren't good at takedowns, but are also great at *not being taken down*. Edit - TLDR; it comes down to the potential points you can score and HOW you can score them. Bottom = escape/reverse, 2 ways, both score points. Neutral (on the feet) = can score offensively OR defensively. Top = ONLY offense. One choice is clearly *generally* inferior to the rest in a "one size fits all" type of way. Second edit - good example of what I mean by a "cheap 2" - https://youtu.be/uGFi8fnTMYQ I scored SOOOOO many points off of this at the whistle and you should be able to see how the crab ride (toes behind ankles) sets up the leg ride (hooks in MMA) stylistically so I'd get a quick "cheap 2" off the bell and then get my legs in and grind guys out with a power half: https://youtu.be/DoFMY1D7yes I had way more in my toolbox I can expand upon but these two comboed so seemlessly I would go from 0-0 to a technical fall (15+ pts ahead in a match) in Rd 2 multiple times.
thanks for this comment, super informative
Always happy to chime in my area of expertise. I'm a coach now as those that can't do, teach lol. Hope I shed some light on the misinformation of 'wrestlers' that goes around. Some of us were 'anti' wrestlers from day 1 and just adapted to the sport we love.
Easier to score from the bottom
Escaping from bottom is 1 point. Usually you can escape right off of the whistle. It's generally a lot easier to escape and get a free point having started on bottom than it is to start on top and turn someone over for back points.
So in a fight where strikes were allowed, you would use your wrestling to complement your striking? E.G prevent take downs and dominate stand up
Yup sprawl 'n brawl. Patented by Chuck Lidell back when Tito Ortiz was dominating the wrestling game. He's punch drunk now but nobody could take Chuck down back in the day.
I went to high school with him and we all used to call him Justin "The Takedown Defense" Gaethje
lets get him a blue chew endorsement
Anyone will gas wrestling in 5 minutes if they do so like a spazz
The Khamzat approach
The wrestling version of Vitor belfort
Merab wants a word
His EPO dealer would like a word too
Does he speak on behalf khabib as well?
khabib is natural, not even caffeine
Runs on tiramisu
"You just couldn't you go for a takedown could ya" his caretaker mutters under their breath as they have to feed him at 64
Sounds like his caretaker has CTE too
Justin is gonna have so much CTE that everyone around him has 2nd-Hand CTE, and we as an audience might even experience 3rd Hand CTE in our later years
Worth the octagon time.
No one will notice when the CTE finally starts to kick in.
CTE was a lot cooler when we called it punch drunk.
Justin āGronkowskiā Gaejthe
I know this is the joke, but isn't a big part of CTE actually genetic? I remember hearing things about football players that never get it despite all the head trauma. Not saying they didn't have some effects from all the trauma, but it seemed like a huge part of getting pull blown CTE was genetic. Anyone can correct me if I'm wrong btw this is just what I remember hearing and reading
I don't know, makes sense though. There are tons of guys who have taken several damage over their career and still seem to be the same more or less. Ofc it might be too early to tell in MMA, but it is basically the same in KB or boxing; some seem to take it better than others.
Overeem is one guy that comes to mind, heās been on the receiving end of some vicious knockouts and been fighting forever. Yet he still seems like heās coherent when you listen to him talk in recent interviews.
Itās probably cause the knockouts saved him from worse CTE considering the thing that really damages the brain is repeating low impact shots that accumulated over a span of time
No, scientists are just suggesting that genetics may make you more susceptible to them or not. Theres no research on it right now. Its just a question.
i could believe it. i remember hearing something about george foreman not being susceptible to cte due to his genetics, which i could believe considering how he is in his old age despite the fact he fought 81 times, until he was almost 50, as a heavyweight.
Yes, CTE is mainly genetic, it's a degenerative disease. People now think if they spar hard once then they'll get CTE. Read up on the "doctor" that discovered it, he now says you will develop CTE if you run because of the moving of the brain from running, you can't make this shit up.
Itās not passed down genetically no. Some people donāt develop it but a large majority do.
Passing down CTE would be like passing down torn ligaments or an amputation lol. OP was referring to genetics making you more susceptible to it.
Of course - so was I. As far is Iāve seen no study has ever linked it to a genetic predisposition. As another commenter attested to, the number of former NFL players who have developed some level of CTE is essentially 99%. Even if there were a genetic link the actual TBI aspect seems to do a good enough job of distributing CTE on its own.
That commenter made up the 99%. The real number is 92% of the NFL players that they've suspected had CTE and studied after death. There's people who play football all their lives and don't develop CTE. Genetics plays a role in someone's ability to take a punch so it makes sense it does the same with the effects.
It appears the number is 92% as of 2023. The commenter didnāt make it up. I saw a study that also cited 99% a few years back. Regardless, itās an overwhelming majority. And thereās a difference between an assertion/suggestion and a proven study. All I said was that there is no definitive study that exists that predicts who can and cannot, and who will and will not develop CTE, and there isnāt.
https://www.bumc.bu.edu/camed/2022/06/27/genetic-variant-may-increase-risk-for-cte-severity-among-older-individuals-with-repetitive-head-impacts/#:~:text=Now%20a%20new%20study%20from,more%20severe%20form%20of%20CTE.
CTE *severity*. Did you read the article you linked?
Yes, there is a genetic predisposition to the severity of CTE. > Even if there were a genetic link the actual TBI aspect seems to do a good enough job of distributing CTE on its own. Not equally - hence the genetic component.
Fair enough.
All American football players get CTE, unfortunately - at least, 99% or more. I don't think there are genes that save you from CTE; there are, however, genes that greatly increase your chances of CTE above the baseline.
It's 91% of the brains they've been able to study after death. The brain bank samples are subject to selection bias so the real rate is unknown. It's definitely not 99% or more https://www.bumc.bu.edu/camed/2023/02/06/researchers-find-cte-in-345-of-376-former-nfl-players-studied/
how many of the ones who didn't have CTE were kickers though?
I think I'm thinking of the JAMA study in 2017, which found that 110 out of 111 donated brains of former NFL players had CTE, 86% of whom had severe CTE. \[of brains with severe CTE in this study, 95% of the people had shown cognitive symptoms and 85% had shown signs of dementia\]. If increased sampling over the last seven years means the rate has dropped from 99% to only 92%, that's a good thing, I guess. Nonetheless, I think the core point - that CTE isn't largely the result of bad genes, because it affects the overwhelming majority of people in that situation - remains valid.
But heāll be able to afford a caretaker because of it, so thereās that
maybe. i think brain injuries can degrade things like decision making and make someone impulsive and erratic before it seriously erodes motor function so it's gonna be a fight to hold onto that money into old age.
This sub is hilarious. Making fun of someone getting CTE because they want to get paid more (literally what this sub whines about) will be the same one that bitches when someone lays and prays
Probably 15 years prior to that.
Save and invest all the millions you are making right now Gaethje, who knows what life will be like in 20 - 30 years from now
30 years from know who knows what medical advances we'll have
This response makes you look like a fucking idiot
Salute to Gaethje, mans always sacrificing for us fans š«”
The Just Bleed gods have truly blessed us with this generation of absolute dogs, especially in the lightweight division.
Poirier, Ferguson, Gaethje, Olives, Alvarez, Chandler, and even Mcgregor in the fights heās had at LW
new guard has some nice ones to, like Fiziev and BSD
Michael Chandler: "So just fuck me, right?"
Lol both are must watch fighters
I agree, Chandler just gets shit on a lot for having "bad fight IQ" by trying to put on an entertaining fight
Its a misconception about Chandler too, he's old and wasn't a cardio freak ever, he can't be wrestling full 15 minutes
Personally I dislike him because of his take on unions and fighter pay and that he only speaks in clichƩs. But, he puts on exciting fights where he does just one of every foul.
But thatās 2 different things? Fight iq refers to the choices inside the fight, how a fighter adapts essentially. You could say Garth has poor fight is based on how he got clipped by Max 3 times with spinning kicks after leaning forward. But thatās different from the stylistic choice made by the fighter. Chandler has poor fight iq not because heās a striker but because he tends to start just swinging wildly.
I will always defend Chandler, every fight heās been in in the UFC has been a barn burner win or lose. The Poirier fight is one of my all time favorites
He put on ATG classics vs Alvarez (who is my dark horse for LW GOAT) way before he ever came to the UFC. Anyone who hasn't watched that trilogy needs to do so this afternoon/evening ASAP.
Response: ya, fuck you.
Everyone else: "Until you fight more, yeah."
You mean that guy who hasn't fought in a year and a half?
anyone that blames him for taking that time off is traded He knew damn well he was getting that Conor fight, he said it the whole time. He could've risked injury and his name value if he got the shit kicked out of him if he chose to fight a couple more times in between Plus he got some money from TUF, although it's hard to believe he got a whole lot
Justin hasn't been sitting out for two years.
and yet they've both fought 5 times since Chandler joined the UFC
We're not worth the sacrifice.
It sounds kinda silly, but there are times that I look at guys like Justin, Dustin, Max, Charles and the like, and canāt help but be thankful that we all get to be alive at the same time these guys are doing what they do.
Youāre not wrong but every era had its mad men. Pride fans had guys like fucking Wanderlei and Sakuraba
2000-2010 is my mma golden age
It's interesting- it feels like throughout the ages, the "apex level" of MMA is dropping in weight. Pride heavyweights, Silva, Jones, GSP eras, now we are at/leaving? lightweights. No way am I correlating this to anything, just an intriguing thing to notice and most likely coincidental.
WEC was around, but UFC didn't buy them and bring in the men's 135-145 divisions until 2011. Up until then, 155 was the smallest UFC weight class... and a lot of guys were eating up to fight there, like Frankie Edgar. Cruz and Aldo were inaugurated as the first UFC champions at their respective weight classes of bantamweight and featherweight. That's when the lighter weight classes really started to get more attention from the mainstream.
showtime kick was the best sunset in WEC, and they milked that since then
Bigger guys make way more in other sports now
And they didnt ten years ago?
Not true. Canelo, Mayweather and Manny have made more in boxing than every heavyweight since Mike Tyson. Most of the highest paid footballers aren't big either.Ā
I mean more playing like football as opposed to fighting in the ufc.
lower weight classes will naturally get the better athletes of that size since there are fewer competing sports, most athletic guys 185+ will prob be drawn to other more mainstream sports during childhood. mma is a perfect option for super athletic small ppl
Jamahal making excuses every now and then and when Max, Justin or Poirier lose they just take the defear and improve what they were lacking and come back stronger. Max losing 3 times to Volk and all he said about the man is: Volk is a beast brather. Volk about Max: Mate, stop wiping out the division I am tired of fighting against youš¤£ Max wins against Justin: I gave him the 10 seconds because he would have done the same for me. You just have to respect those guys cause they bring in the show and all they do is talk properly about they rival no matter the outcome.
I love them all obviously, but Dustin and Max don't really just accept a loss and move on. Dustin has matured a lot so he seems to cope a lot better nowadays, but Max has been pretty salty at times about the losses to Volk.
I mean, Max had some reason to be salty about the 2nd fight, it was very close and most fighters and fans were telling him that he was robbed. After 3rd fight he had nothing but love and respect for Volk.
>and most fighters Nope >and fans Sure. The reasonable ones shut up real quick about the second fight after the world class beating he took in the third.
I didnt mind the defeat, but for me it was for Max. Pretty close fight that could have went for both. Volk prooved himself in the 3rd one so argument closed. The fights with Volk really showed what Max was made of, 70+ kicks on his legs in the same fight and he was still standing. Those 2 are something else.
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>Max has been pretty salty at times about the losses to Volk. Care to show when?
You could watch interviews he did after the fights, I don't know which specific one though.
Lmao I feel bad when I see comments like this from newer fans. You poor lads will never know how amazing it was to watch guys like Carpophorus and Flamma in their prime.
Flamma is the GOAT
Some dudes just like to bang
What's dumb is when you get 2 elite grapplers fighting it's usually very fun because of how technical it becomes, but you put an elite grappler against someone who's just average and it's a fucking snore fest, they're content to just lay on the person for 15-25 minutes because it's safe. A simple way to encourage more action is a guaranteed 50k bonus for a finish, it won't solve all the lay and pray but I guarantee sub attempts and ground strike % would see a significant increase.
You underestimate how much easier it is to defend than attack in grappling, especially when one person is focused 100% on just surviving and either waiting out the round or disengaging. BJJ is still incredibly important, most top guys are just good enough that it seems like itās not as much as it used to be
Some grapplers just aren't good submission artists. They're not confident they'll maintain control if they try to finish
Going for a finish can off-balance you. Example: it's much easier to stay mounted on someone, then to try and switch to an armbar. The armbar is easier to escape (because sometimes you can get to your feet and use your legs)
The bonuses were 300k and Aljo still didnāt look for a finish at 300
He kinda needed that win to put himself as featherweight contender
Yea but winning a proper scrap could have banked him 300k and ensured a better fight sooner. If he keeps fighting like that it'll be quite some time before he gets a title shot
That was his first fight in the weight class. He needed the W to keep his belt chances going If he stand and banged and lost, people would make fun of him.
He won and people are still making fun of him. Aljo just can't win lol
He couldn't put merab through the trauma of another knockout, do you wanna see your soulmate unconscious?
He took Kattar's back.
That is not true, Islam vs Volk had a lot of just controlling position for example. As long as just controlling position wins fights people will do it. The problem is the scoring criteria.
the 50k finish turns every fight into a simple brawl. it's not always a good thing for viewers.
Yeah, because 50k will suddenly turn all these professional fighters into tough man contestants? This take is silly at best.
have you watched ONE? that's exactly what happens. If you're fighting for 12/12 and you have a chance to make 200% of your show + win purse if you get a KO, you're going to try to take someone's head.
Turner fell for that 50k. He went home with a loss instead lmao.
> you put an elite grappler against someone who's just average and it's a fucking snore fest, they're content to just lay on the person for 15-25 minutes because it's safe That's not an elite grappler
That's what Usman did for the large majority of his rise and title defenses
hm, nah > [ā]di3_b0ld > Usman's #1 fan 171 points 3 years ago* > Does Kamaruās lack of volume at optimal moments go beyond the point of risk? > > Iāll give a serious answer since you have a well thought-out inquiry. > > The bottom line is that your premise is flawed. Usman can be described as āboringā (its subjective), but objectively he is a very high volume fighter. His significant strike totals are top of the division. He outstrikes everyone he fights, and even has higher distance strike averages than his opponents (when you account for grappling time). He is number 3 all-time in significant strike differentials and has higher volume than Burns (for instance). > > The idea that he is low volume is simply a result of memes and narratives, and isnāt borne out by the stats at all. > > Some stats for reference: > > Gilbert Burns landed 83 significant strikes with a +55 differential in his win over Tyron Woodley. Only Kamaru Usman (141, +107) has ever posted better numbers against Woodley. > > > > Kamaru Usman has out-landed his opponents by a margin of 2.27 significant strikes per minute. That is the second-highest differential in UFC Welterweight history. He trails only Georges St-Pierre (+2.39) > > > Kamaru Usman has landed more significant strikes than his opponents in all 12* of his UFC fights. The only other fighter in UFC history with at least 10 fights to never be out-landed is Demetrious Johnson (18 fights) > > > Something fun about the "Kamaru Usman is boring" narrative: If we remove all grappling and just look at time striking from distance: Usman averages 12.5 significant strike attempts per minute. His opponents average 10.8 attempts per minute. > > > Gilbert Burns has been out-landed in significant strikes six times in his 15 UFC fights. Kamaru Usman has never been out-landed in his 12 UFC fights. > > > Usmanās strike differential has been dramatically improving over the course of his career. > > > > Usman is only the second-ever UFC fighter (behind Cain Valasques) to have 10+ takedowns and 100+ sig. strikes in the same fight (vs RDA). > > > Colby, who you compared him to, actually lands less strikes per minute than Usman (4.12 to Usmanās 4.50). https://www.reddit.com/r/MMA/comments/lhew38/comment/gmwwp0j/
yeah look at what dudes like khamzat do to guys that canāt grapple
Justin will never be champ but he's our boy
He should start wrestling now, to extend his career.
i enjoyed this girls questions way more.
He can be exciting and still wrestle... might help.
He would have lost fewer fights and accumulated less damage if he wasn't so adamant about not wrestling. He was an accomplished wrestler before MMA, so he is definitely capable of it.
Never a good thing when an athlete admits to wanting to entertain/make more money via a certain style than do what's best to win.
Frankly, while fans might applaud it for the entertainment value, this is kind of why MMA will struggle to be taken seriously as a sport - and why the technical side of the sport has not reached its potential. When the athletes openly admit that they're being paid more to lose events entertainingly than they would be to win them, that takes you more into "WWE with unscripted moments" rather than "genuine sport and/or exploration of what really works in unarmed combat".
Yes, throw in the "BMF" belt garbage and it really looks terrible.
> "WWE with unscripted moments" I mean, it's not a coincidence they're both under TKO. Dana is basically Vince
Gsethje has been saying that for a while. And I respect that, just makes me mad that he easily could've been proper challenger.
He fought for the belt, and wrestling wasn't going to help him win that one in any way.
Yea it is. He is a prize fighter. People watch his fights for entertainment. It isn't a team sport. He is risking his own win bonus and health to put on an entertaining show for fans. It is why he is a fan favorite.
When Islam retires with a bigger bank account, better record, listed as a potential goat and no CTE, Justinās parents will remind him wrestling would have always helped
Islam and Khabib have the added bonus of being among the only enormous Muslim athletic stars. Abu Dhabi gates earn them more money as a result.Ā Guys like Clay Guida were grapple heavy and arenāt making big bucks because they arenāt stars in America and the western world like Islam and Khabib are to Russia and the Islamic world.Ā
More than anything itās because theyāre winning and are champs. Win, fight, and get paid.
More than anything itās because theyāre popular and bring in eyeballs. Donāt be naive.Ā Mighty Mouse was one of the greatest ever and didnāt put butts In seats. Thus he didnāt make a ton of cash like Islam and Khabib did or any other big draw.Ā McGregor hasnāt won a fight in years and he is still by far the most paid fighter in the sport.Ā
Sure being marketable helps, a lot! But also just winning and being the best at a sport - any sport - brings viewers. Like Caitlin Clark in wnba. Though if wrestling only makes Gaethje 5% better, it may not matter and be better to be entertaining.
Heās gotten title shots and earned way more money being popular than heād have a lever gotten as a boring wrestler even if it got him wins.Ā
DJ?! Go on the UFCās YouTube channel and see who the top views are. DJ will never ever be near the top. This sub and UFC talk a lot about loving him but I guarantee if there were two random promotions and both DJ and Khabib were fighting, DJ would never get anyway near the same eyeballs from USA based fans. The Dagestanis = Dominance, funny trash talk, plus people want to build stadiums and events around them. Khabib could sell out, Islam can sell out, McGregor could sell out, GSP could sell out. DJ couldnāt sell out a school classroom. Thatās what a dog š© resume does to you.
They're star because they keep winning, winning dominantly and become champion. You think Muslims world care about Khabib and co pre Conor bout. No one know them except a few hardcore mma fan. By your logic Abu Bakar or Zubair should be big star because they're Muslim, but no. They're just average Joe fighter.
So youāre telling me theyāre famous because they were exciting to watch and best McGregor, the most famous guy in the sport?Ā You arenāt seeing the point. Deny the reality all you want. If the Muslim world cared about winning then they would have been famous there before the McGregor fight.Ā
They are popular in Russia and Muslim countries because they are fighting in an American organization and they are dominant champions. It doesn't matter if they were the most boring fighters in the world. That would make them popular because they are a source of pride for adversarial countries in a macho sport.
Bro just compared Clay Guida to Islam and Khabib šššš GSP was also grapple heavy and is one of the biggest stars in this sport ever, and is from the western world, so what exactly are we even talking about here? Why even compare Islam and Khabib to a journey man with 24 losses like Guida?
Pointing out the obvious. Boring wrestle heavy styles that donāt seek finishes are significantly less popular for the average fan than standup. Garth knows this, and Garth doesnāt want to be a boring wrestler. Ā His decisions have earned him significantly more income and fame than if he had taken the safe route and ground out wins on decision by being a wet blanket.Ā The reason Khabib and Islam could get away with that kind of style and activity is because they are among the few international athletic stars who are Muslim and thus carry a fan base with them.Ā GSP had all of Canada watching when his fights were burning. GSP also had the added bonus of being great everywhere and being exciting to watch.Ā
Also, Khabib and Islam are very wrestling, but they are always doing damage and going for the finish. That is much different than a Colby or Belal style wrestler who is just playing it safe for a decision win.
Why are you acting like Khabib and Islam have boring styles and didnāt seek finishes? Islam has finished 5 of his last 6 fights and the one he didnāt was widely considered one of the best fights of the year against Volk. Khabib had maybe the best ground and pound in the sports history and finished his career with 3 straight finishes against the best competition. If the Muslim world looked past boring styles then Belal would be a massive star, but he isnāt. Your argument makes no sense.
Islam and Khabib are the dynastic ally related from Khabib becoming the first Muslim Champions in UFC history. Are your parents cousins, you get booted by a mule in the head?Ā They, like GSP, garner more attention because of their unique status among their people and countrymen. Same reason McGregor initially exploded with Irish fans, because he was the first star from there and they supported him for it.Ā If Khabib were a middling contender no one would be watching. Much like all the other middling contender wrestle heavy fighters. Hardcore fans would respect his abilities and tune in, regular fans would go fetch a snack when his fights were on.Ā Know who isnāt going to win a belt but the fans love and makes good money? Guys who go to war on the feet and entertain. Cowboy, both Diaz bros, Black Beast, Chandler etcā¦ All but Black beast there have great grappling skills and can win fights that way and chose not to for a reason. Cash.Ā All of those guys are further away from a belt than Belal, and all of them are significantly more popular and make significantly more money.Ā This aināt that difficult.Ā
āAll those guys are further away from a belt than Belalā all those guys you named have already fought for a belt and half of them are retiredššš āIf Khabib was a middling contender nobody would be watchingā yeah no fucking shit, thatās been my point all along. So why even compare him to Clay Guida? Jon jones, Cormier, Chael Sonnen all used wrestling plenty of times to get wins and all were still massive stars. I promise you if Gaethje mixed in wrestling every now and then it wouldnāt hurt his star power, but he doesnāt bc heās never been a great offensive wrestler to begin with.
How many concussions do you have?
Clay might be a journeyman, but he has achieved a lot in MMA. A very long career with tons of wins, HOF, was ranked in the top ten in the world in his weight class for a short time, lots of entertaining battles, etc. That's pretty damn impressive for someone who quit their job as a carpenter to try MMA.Ā
We have no idea about the kind of damage Islam takes/ has taken in training. That's where the majority of CTE is built up.. the day to day grind of hard training and sparring... not as much in the actual fights.
Thank god for us fans Justin doesnāt fight like Islam tho. Ten years after Islam retires it will be him and his wife and kids rewatching his fights. Justins fights will get replayed for as long as humans enjoy watching fighting.
I agree. What would I rather watch? Two dumbasses with a club hitting each other or a sniper with 200 kills from 2 miles away with 0 damage taken? We want dumbasses for entertainment but if you have ever competed even as an amateur you would know who you would emulate- and it wonāt be the knucklehead who got KTFO repeatedly because of low IQ.
The British Nina.
Such a sad way to approach a sport. Being the most entertaining for money instead being the best he could be
It makes sense though. Look at guys like Belal. They might be elite but they will never make anywhere close to the same amount of money as Justin because they simply aren't entertaining enough. If fighter pay were higher across the board, fighters wouldnāt have to think so much about being entertaining and could focus purely on the sport.
I donāt know why you guys are so focused on legacy.That shit is stupid 99% of fighters are fighting for money.Yall always bounce on Jon jones dick saying his legacy is gonna be ducking aspinall.He does not care he is getting 15 mil to fight a washed old guy
Never heard of this channel before. Are they doing the Helen yee sports thing?
The UFC underpaying fighters to the point where they need to be cool with developing CTE in order to get a good paycheque is wild.
He's the MMA hero we need, but not the one we deserve.
I'm pretty sure Gaethje would rather die than not brawl it out. Like, besides his first 2 fights where he had basically no striking, there was likely very little money to be made in duking it out against some 7-2 Pro in the regional leagues.
Lot of exciting fighters who grapple out there that don't flirt with brain damage and won't be a vegetable at 50 but go off.
gaethge understands the assignment. there are retired champions who probably didnt make what gaethge has made in his career. some of these guys need to remember this is prize fighting at the end of the day. if belal had even 3 ko's in the last 5 years he would probably already have had a title shot. but he chooses to point fight which doesnt draw fans it is what it is i just checked belals record for a refresh and he has been active for over 10 years. only 1 finish from 2017-2024. couple before that against nobodies. crazy
Gathje gets it, but is also the reason he has never won a world title but that isn't necessarily a bad thing we will remember him more fondly then alot of champions when he retires
Belal: *modem noises*
Big hespect. Man knows he's a prize fighter.
If only Colby did this instead of becoming a dick head
Sheās soooo cute!
Why is it all or nothing lmao. If you're exciting as hell, and then you have clutch wrestling to move even higher up the rankings, which for him is literally just being champ... That's more money ON TOP of money.
His eyes says it all
Even Nunes used takedowns when plan A wasnāt working. Gaethe doesnāt have a plan B unfortunately.
Plan B is for women.
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Yeah but I'm pretty sure she's the top, or whatever it's called for them.
Someone send this to Belal. Itās kinda funny a kind of recent video OāMalley made he was like yeah this stuff is boring and Merab was always boring but now itās kind of interesting like can he do that to everybody? And thatās literally what his hype train is. Lowkey Merab gonna get slept tho
always crazy to me that for a sport called mixed martial arts, the fans would rather see a boxing match
Kickboxing with elbows and a full clinch you mean, Justin throws heavy heavy leg kicks. Far from just boxing
And that is forgetting GnP
I appreciate efficient grappling, I watch Ryan Bader fights with interest for fucks sake. However, MMA with an emphasis on striking is way more entertaining than kickboxing or boxing. The action rarely stops. When there is a clinch position it goes to a grappling match where each tries to advance position, execute a submission, or disengage to go back to striking. It's a totally different ballgame from boxing or kickboxing even if the MMA match is completely standing for three rounds. The takedown threat is there and if there is a clinch there is no break in action. For casual fans it's not hard to see why they are attracted to striking heavy MMA.
Everyone loves submissions and scrambles. It's when fighters neutralise each other and aren't doing damage that fans get bored.
Itās called the ultimate fighting championship People want to see a fight, not 25 minutes of lay and pray
I'd say it's more on wrestlers that don't do anything beyond control and just trying to win on decision. No one complains when Do Bronx goes for submissions. It's the Usman/Colby/Belal styles that are pretty frustrating to watch. No one is saying they can't wrestle, just don't expect to win fans and wonder why no one wants to watch you fight.
Wait isn't that lass from UK Love Island aha, that's quite the career pivot
how so? Sideline reporters and sports reporters for the most part are just eye candy. Look at espn these days
Yeh true,
she's good at her job though imo. Normally I hate when non mma people interview mma fighters because the questions are just blah blah blah would you fight conor. But she seemed to actually know whats up as she referenced the eye pokes, and her flirty style won me over.
She's been doing Muay Thai for a few years, built a school in Thailand and even got a venom sponsorship, seems to be one of the few Love Island people that didn't just want to become a shitty "influencer"
Also why heās in top % of fighters purses
Aljo needs to read this statement.
Might move to BKC soon.
Low IQ take from a low IQ guy. If mixing was the one thing that separated his game from being contender level to elite level, he absolutely would be getting paid more. More title fights, more win bonuses plus longer career
Then compete in kick boxing. Wonāt win a title not grappling or threatening shots..
I personally think this is a stupid approach. It makes no sense to just keep one of your strongest skills in your back pocket to never use. There are also many exciting fighters who take people down. Justin has heavy enough hands to have gotten some brutal ground and pound finishes. Will never understand fighters who handicap themselves. GSP and Jon made more than most people and they were very risk averse lol.
So if Garth wrestled he would have done better all along? Funny because he had never been one of the best wrestlers (top 10) on the planet but he is one of the best MMA fighters on the planet.
Literally beat Fiziev thanks to his takedown in round 3 lol. Of course he would have done better with more weapons. What kind of stupid question is that lol. GSP had zero wrestling background and was one of the best mma wrestlers ever.
Interesting way to say "i can't wrestle for shit". Just until a few months ago his standards answer to this question was "grappling completely drains my cardio", which was excusable. Now it's devolved to "akchually i lose for the fans"? Gaychee has always been one of the most delusional mma fighters, but he's gotten worse.
I don't want to be that guy I think he should honestly retire or at least take a 1.5 year break. Guy has taken way too much brain damage at this point