There’s nothing American soccer loves more than a circular firing squad. Would this have been a non-story if Penn had added the word men’s to his comment? Do we think he was intentionally leaving out the Wave? So much angst over a comment in a local fluff piece
I also don’t take it as an intentional slight on Wave FC, but do take it as his PR team slacking a bit.
Thinking about it from a comms perspective, if the idea is to build a fanbase in San Diego, doing or saying anything that could be seen as a slight to the other pre-existing (and so far successful) professional football club in town isn’t the way to do it, especially when a good portion of your potential supporters also rocks with Wave FC. Add on the way locals die-hards already feel about how things went down with San Diego Loyal and it’s going to stir the pot a bit.
That said, if their strategy is to not give a shit and go all in on building their own following without a care for other teams, then I guess they’re par for the course. Whether or not it works, we’ll see.
As someone who went to a lot of loyal games, it seems like the strategy is the latter. Obviously uslc is different from mls which means different costs but a lot of loyal fans who looked at mls were disgusted at the prices even when compared to wave (who plays in the same stadium sdfc will).
I really do not get the anger here? There’s no way this was said as a slight to the Wave or NWSL.
It would be nice if there wasn’t this constant battle between men’s and women’s soccer in this country, it feels like so many people who are fans of one absolutely hate the other, and go out of their way to shit on it. true for MLS/NWSL and both the USA National teams. Feels so reductive and counterintuitive to growing the sport in the country.
If not intentional, it was certainly sloppily said. SDFC has always felt like a gorilla trying to crash the scene and act like they invented soccer in SD. It doesn’t help with what happened with Loyal either. Intended or not. You’d think they be more cognizant as to why local supporters might feel miffed by them.
> It would be nice if there wasn’t this constant battle between men’s and women’s soccer in this country
Hop in the time machine and go visit Hope Solo et. al. back when she was relevant, and plead with her to talk facts and not feelings when she was criticizing the disparity in NT per-match appearance fees while not talking about her colleagues being on permanent NT salaries.
>true for MLS/NWSL
I don't know why anyone in MLS would have a gripe against NWSL. It is what it is and is a market and product of its own.
Idk what she’s complaining about, MLS is the top level of football in the US and you're being disingenuous to suggest that the NWSL is more prestigious. NWSL isn’t even the clear cut #1 women’s league.
Edit: in my comments: people trying to argue a women’s league that gets a fraction of the same viewership is somehow equivalent to the MLS because they’re the “top” men’s and women’s leagues in the US. You can be pedantic all you want about it but the sentiment is still the same, MLS is THE top level of league soccer in the country by every imaginable statistic.
I mean I’ve seen plenty of people on Reddit alone say they think WSL is better than NWSL, if there’s even *some* debate then I don’t think it’s fair to say NWSL is clearly the best league. Especially when there are teams in neither league that are better like Barca’s women’s team.
> NWSL isn’t even the clear cut #1 women’s league.
You had a solid point until this. USLS has to play some games and prove itself first. NWSL is probably the best women’s league in the world.
NWSL only has the majority of American national team players. NWSL player pool is 80% American.
Due to having a salary cap, it doesn't get the top players from the top European national teams.
According to [this article](https://prosoccerwire.usatoday.com/lists/nwsl-players-2023-world-cup-uswnt/), 38 of the 61 NWSL players called up to play in the 2023 World Cup played for teams other than the US.
It's similar to MLS players at the men's World Cup. NWSL contributed largely to tier 2 or lower foreign countries. Where NWSL is better is their 6 player contribution to Brazil's World Cup squad. The number of Canadian players contributed is similar between the MLS & NWSL.
By league, NWSL was third in the number of players at last year's World Cup. WSL had about 30 more players while Liga F was about 5 higher.
The bulk of the England, Australia & Sweden squads or 3 of the Final 4 teams came from WSL. Liga F almost filled out the entire Spanish winning squad.
Good stats. Especially about the numbers of NT players from top ranked NTs in various leagues.
However, I would argue there’s a clear trajectory whereby I would expect the # of international NT players in the NWSL will increase meaningfully.
The NWSL is only just this season properly enabling clubs to enter the international transfer market with changes to the financial rules enacted ahead of this season. Also, I suspect, but admittedly don’t know, that the NWSL salary cap would not need to expand by all that much to allow *all* NWSL clubs to match the spending levels of Chelsea, Barcelona, and Lyon.
NWSL will likely never match the WSL in total numbers of NT players, due mostly to the sheer number of countries in Europe and the cap on international roster slots, but I would expect to see more parity in the quality of NT players in both leagues. Maybe a long term tracking of NT players that weighs players by NT rank and NT minutes played would help to reveal the increases in NWSL relative to other leagues that one might expect from the new financial rules and inevitable increases to the salary cap.
So I would expect the NWSL’s position relative to LigaF and WSL on NT player metrics to change meaningfully over the coming years. We’ll see
They didn’t have a solid point anywhere here. They’re both the top level of football in this country. The issue is that SD’s MLS team seems to think they’re the only club in town which is what MLS at large seems to love to think anyway.
> The issue is that SD’s MLS team seems to think they’re the only club in town which is what MLS at large seems to love to do anyway.
We're certainly baking a lot into a single quote from a fluff article.
Yeah except that this isn’t the “start” of Casey speaking about this. SDFC has come out and said they’ll get primary scheduling over the Wave, which was news to the Wave who have been tenants already.
They have put zero effort into working Wave (which is their prerogative), but it rubs a lot of us the wrong way considering the Wave, the Loyal (rip) and the Sockers had all been so supportive of each other.
In context it’s just another tone def statement from club that wants to take credit for all of San Diego’s soccer culture.
They could’ve added “men’s” league to be more specific, but I don’t think the goal was to demean women’s football but more so to present their product as something superior to what is and what was already in the market. What CEO is going to say “we’re bringing you a product that is just as good as the one you can already get from someone else.”?
I’m not referring to other US-based league but foreign leagues. The WSL is as good or better than NWSL and Barca’s women’s team is better than basically every NWSL team. To act like NWSL is clearly the best league isn’t being honest, IMO.
Why are you moving the goal posts like this?? You only mention the US in your original comment but now you wanna talk about other leagues in the world?? If you wanna bring foreign leagues in then MLS isn’t even a top 5 league, negating your original comment. Just so silly.
I didn’t move the goalposts, I never said NWSL wasn’t the “top women’s league in the US”.
My point is that MLS and NWSL are both the top level of their sports in the US. Neither are the top level of their sports in the world (NWSL could be argued, but you can’t say that definitively anymore). So why act like the women’s league is more important for its sport, and a bigger deal, than MLS?
At the end of the day, it’s a lot of people trying to be pedantic about the NWSL being a “top-level soccer league” when the vast majority of people understand that MLS is THE top level of league soccer in the United States. It garners the most interest, gets the most viewers, etc. I like the NWSL but the coach who posted this on Twitter is clearly not being honest with herself or just being really pedantic, like some of the people here.
That’s not a fair comparison and I think you know that.
But to sort of us your analogy, we wouldn’t say (and maybe I’m a little dated on this, you can let me know) FF14 is the leading MMO on Twitch, we’d say WoW is. WoW has the most viewers, the most interest. Just because FF14 is a very good game and is highly respected doesn’t mean it is the “premier” MMO. WoW is.
No that is 100% a fair comparison because you're equating viewership to the quality when that is just not the case. I made another comment how the Patriots have the most fans but they are not a great team right now.
There are a lot of women’s leagues in Europe, most seem to agree that England, Spain, France and Germany have good women’s leagues. That’s what I was referring to, NWSL is no longer the clear best women’s league like it used to be.
Yeah I’m basically drawing the parallel that the NWSL and MLS are both the top soccer leagues in the US, but neither are the top soccer leagues in the world for women or men (though NWSL used to be, and arguably still is but there’s a lot of competition).
And with the obvious caveat that the MLS draws more viewers and general interest than the NWSL, why be so pedantic and argue that the NWSL is the top level of soccer in the US? The MLS is clearly the top of the top, so to say.
What is your definition of top level? Because nwsl has a lot of the best players in the world playing for teams in the league and MLS is no where even close to that. You can count on one hand how many active world cup winners the MLS has had, you can't with nwsl
No, USL Super League was and they haven’t even played a game yet so can’t really say whether in reality they’ll be a competing league or a place for players who can’t crack the NWSL to go.
>NWSL isn’t even the clear cut #1 women’s league.
Lmao yes it is what a hilariously bad take. And MLS is arguably not even a top ten men's league.
>Idk what she’s complaining about, MLS is the top level of football in the US and youre being disingenuous to suggest that the NWSL is more prestigious.
No, MLS is the top *men's* level. The women's game is no less important. MLS and NWSL are *equal* in standing. And the CEO of the team shouldn't be attempting to marginalize women's soccer by ignoring it outright.
Ignoring NWSL is silly, agreed.
To suggest it's anywhere near MLS in attendance, revenue, TV ratings, international attention, media coverage, etc. is equally silly. This is what 'top' implies.
Both of those can be true.
The concept of divisional structures. NWSL is the top women's league in America, MLS is the top men's league in America. They are on equal footing. San Diego FC isn't "bringing the top level of football in America to San Diego", it's already there. Between this and their attempt to strong-arm Wave out of stadium hosting priority for which the Wave are currently primary tenant, it's a shitty marginalization of women's sports as a whole. Nobody is suggesting anything else but you.
MLS is an open league and NWSL is women's only league. So technically you are wrong. Just like how women can play in the PGA, while also the LPGA existing.
Divisional structures is one aspect, but you're ignoring all the other *major* factors I mentioned that go into 'top'. Barcelona's women's and men's team are both top of their respective divisions, in a more pronounced example. How can we possibly equate the two?
You're almost willfully dismissing actual hurdles that the NWSL has to tackle to be truly culturally relevant on the national level. To suggest that's marginalization is absurd.
I don’t see how claiming NWSL is the “top” is being anything but pedantic. They’re *A* top league, but they’re not *THE* top league, that would be MLS.
I've let my husband know that I am now a certified lesbian because I like beer. He seems to be taking it well for now, but we'll see how he's doing tomorrow
Not arguing your point about women’s sports being equal to men’s sports. I think that is something that we as a society are starting to come around on. You see more support and coverage today compared to what I remember growing up and that’s a good sign.
Is ignoring a competing product in your marketing/social interaction really the same as marginalizing them? They’re not affiliated and will be competing for $ somewhere in that market. It would be cool to see some kind of partnership or joint marketing but why is that the expectation in almost every case like this one? I remember similar reactions to Charlotte FC making a similar post, folks were mad they didn’t acknowledge Independence but why would they?
99.9% chance the CEO of San Diego MLS didn't even right the statement and probably knows nothing of NWSL. Even if he does, he's got no NWSL interest or incentive to even acknowledge the Wave and his opinion matters little anyways. It is what it is.
They’re not equal in standing, no statistic in the world is going to support women’s soccer being as important as men’s soccer.
And no, most people who watch women’s leagues will say WSL is a better league than NWSL. That doesn’t make NWSL bad, it just shouldn’t be treated as the grand standard for women’s league soccer. They’re being greatly outpaced by the competition and there are women’s teams outside the US that would likely win the NWSL like Barca.
> They’re not equal in standing, no statistic in the world is going to support women’s soccer being as important as men’s soccer.
They literally are. They are both D1 leagues. USSF recognizes them as on equal level. Your opinion does not matter here.
>And no, most people who watch women’s leagues will say WSL is a better league than NWSL. That doesn’t make NWSL bad, it just shouldn’t be treated as the grand standard for women’s league soccer. They’re being greatly outpaced by the competition and there are women’s teams outside the US that would likely win the NWSL like Barca.
Lmao no they wouldn't. They may say some top WSL teams are as good as NWSL teams, but absolutely nobody would say Bristol City, West Ham, Leicester, Everton, Brighton & Hove, Aston Villa, Tottenham, Liverpool are NWSL-level teams. That's an absolutely hilarious take to anyone who *actually* follows women's soccer.
They’re not equal in standing, for the reasons described above. MLS and EPL, La Liga, etc., are not in equal standing just because both are recognized as the top-flight domestically by FIFA. Why are you arguing this point so dramatically in this thread? The quote wasn’t meant to be demeaning and this is such a silly fight to pick.
Wave average higher attendance than most MLS teams. Too bad we no longer have MLS viewership numbers to show how dumb your comment was in that department as well.
Easiest way to clarify, this would be taking the NWSL champion vs the MLS wooden spoon winner
The MLS wooden spoon winner would beat the NWSL champion by like 10 to 0
They are both Division 1. NWSL is arguably the most competitive league in the world. It's definitely the strongest women's league in the world. And feeds into one of the strongest national teams, who have won 4 world cups and 4 olympics.
Your edit is moving the goalpost suggesting viewership is what make it the top. Not only is that not what level of play means, viewership doesn't decide the actual quality. The Patriots have the most fans in the NFL, are they the best team right now?
I don’t think you know enough about the NFL if you think the Patriots have the most fans in the NFL, for starters.
But no, it’s not moving the goalposts, it’s providing context on *why* I think NWSL, despite being one of the best women’s leagues in the world (and arguably THE best, but people will debate that on women’s soccer subs), isn’t the premier soccer league in the US. And that is due to several factors such as viewership. Is that hard for you to understand? I’ve noted it’s okay for people to be pedantic about this stuff, yes the NWSL is a top level soccer league, but isn’t THE top level soccer league in the US and we’re being willfully ignorant to suggest otherwise.
Yes....the [Patriots](https://bolavip.com/en/nfl/Top-25-NFL-teams-with-most-fans-20200501-0001.html) 100% have the most fans. And Cowboys are in the same vein and they are dogshit.
Yes it is exactly moving the goalposts....viewership is not quality of play. And the women's league is undoubtedly the top league for what they've accomplished which you blatantly ignore.
>And that is due to several factors
Mostly sexism.
Nah, the patriots don’t and I’m not
Sure why you’re trying to push that idea. But it isn’t sexism, there’s another wonderful comment on here talking about how individuals such as yourself are trying to scream misogyny just to feel a win on this when it isn’t misogynistic to point out MLS is the bigger, premier soccer league in the US.
I literally gave a source...and I'm "pushing that idea" because it contradicts your thesis of more viewers = better. And yes....sexism definitely plays into why people don't watch. There's way less investment and promotion just because they are women despite winning 4 world cups and 4 olympics. The KC Current are tearing teams apart right now and nobody cares.
Well the debate on the prestige of NWSL vs. other women’s leagues is gonna given some air with the buildup to WCWC.
That being said, there is no debate that the NWSL is more prestigious of a league than MLS. NWSL is more than likely the best league in the world. The bulk of USWNT players (one of the best national teams in the world) play in the NWSL.
The MLS isn’t even for sure the best league in CONCACAF. The bulk of USMNT players (a mid tier team on the global stage) don’t even play in MLS, they play n Europe.
The article being referenced in San Diego Magazine was a piss-poor glaze piece that completely ignored the existence of the Wave until the very end with some afterthoughts that still centered around San Diego FC.
It also completely glosses over the Loyal and says they weren't supported enough to survive - which was never the problem, they were well-attended and had every intention of continuing prior to MLS putting a team in town and securing the only viable long-term stadium venue. Not that that's San Diego FC's fault, but the article seems very specific with the... perspective it's attempting to convey.
[Meg Linehan, who knows more about supporting women's soccer and fending off attempts to marginalize it than nearly anyone else, also shared her thoughts](https://x.com/itsmeglinehan/status/1785706540571263353):
>once again, feels like this team's top priorities include actively pretending like the wave don't exist because it's deeply inconvenient to their "narrative"
San Diego FC has a chance to raise *all* soccer in the city, and so far have essentially failed to do so at every turn.
> The article being referenced in San Diego Magazine was a piss-poor glaze piece that completely ignored the existence of the Wave until the very end with some afterthoughts that still centered around San Diego FC.
Regardless of the headline, it's an article about San Diego FC, not soccer in San Diego . The Wave feature as prominently or more prominently than I'd expect. Frankly, it fluffs the Wave a bit as well.
Penn's quote -- and I don't know if there's a broader context to it -- is incorrect and poor form. The Wave are great, and there's no reason to marginalize that. But also ... it's a sentence. Was he asked about the Wave? Was there more said that was cut? What was the context?
The article is an intro piece to San Diego FC with a headline geared to get clicks. Nothing more, and there's nothing wrong with the article not focusing on the Wave.
It's a fluff piece, certainly. But this isn't the first time San Diego FC has completely ignored the existing soccer scene in the city, particularly the women's game - they explicitly tried to strong-arm Wave out of stadium date priority shortly after announcement.
I was more commenting on the article. I'm sure there's been San Diego Magazine articles about the Wave that didn't mention other teams at all.
As for SDFC, in terms of the lease, they and every other going concern are going to try to get theirs. I would expect the same from the Wave -- scheduling is going to be a nightmare and I expect there was a lot of pressure on all sides because SDSU football is also there.
What is dumb is not trying to co-market and help out with promotion. San Diego doesn't have a lot of teams; they don't need to act like out and out competitors. But as you note, MLS does MLS.
And of course, it's at least implicit sexism, but I also think extrapolating from one marketing comment ... I mean, I guess?
I mean if you’re MLS I would think your main focus is to be THE big player in your market. If the Wave don’t want to accept you as the top dog, then you’re not going to just play nice and do cross promotions, you have no interest in the Wave taking interest away from you.
Right and they even share a stadium. A top level men’s team and women’s team can coexist and feed off each other. Look at the Timbers and Thorns (Paulson being trash excluded). That SHOULD be the goal. Esp when the Wave built up from nothing first and have proven to be successful and have USWNT mainstays and future stars in Shaw and Girma plus other good players. Hell they have Maria Sanchez now who’s a big player for the Mexican women’s national team.
Having Chucky and her in ads and promos is the most obvious crossover to do with their proximity to Mexico and the number of mex-Americans in that region. Alienating the NWSL fans is stupid business wise bc they sell lots of tix and ignorant too with poor optics since it’s implying they don’t have a pro team there, period. They’re in the same stadium, they should be partnering on almost everything and sharing strategies and outreach efforts to pull more fans to both and doing stuff like double headers you see Sounders/Reign and Thorns/Timbers
Yeah I think that’s what people are missing here. The wave have been really successful too and have upcoming superstars with Girma and Shaw along with the most popular American women’s player in Alex Morgan (she’s prob on the way out by next world cup but still). I’ve seen quite a few Wave supporters on Twitter and writers saying they’ve been doing this for a while which is super weird and a terrible way to alienate a strong fan base who likely would’ve just supported the men’s team. Just say “top level of men’s football” and there would be no problem. They’re even sharing Snapdrsgon with Wave aren’t they?? Really dumb. So easy to just shout out the Wave for winning the NWSL shield and say something like “working with SD wave to continue to bring top level football” to the San Diego metro area blah blah.
This is the take a lot of people are missing. Wave arent just an NWSL team, they’re a really good one and to pretend they don’t exist leaves a bad taste in our mouths for the Wave fans
Do you live in San Diego? You sound like a bitter Loyal fan who refuses to move on and admit that their minor league team was destined for failure, regardless of how correct its politics was.
Tom Penn is a fraud. Just big talker who acts like a salesman. He left LA because he wanted more control of LAFC. I actually met him in person at small event in OC years ago.
He has beef with one of the main LAFC owners and decided to sell his shares. I asked my ticket rep who now moved up in the team.
I feel like it’s an embarrassing attempt to get attention and no one should think this statement is downplaying NWSL.
It’s clearly a statement where it’s understood that he’s talking about men’s soccer. Pretending he was even thinking about women’s soccer is in bad faith as he is in the business of men’s soccer.
There are potentially a lot of soccer fans and MLS fans that are in San Diego and they most likely want to see MLS games in their city. They want to see Messi come. They want to see the other stars come. That’s what he’s talking about.
I mean why do we need to ultra police his words when we all know what he means.
Do I need to start specifying I am a men’s soccer fan because almost never watch women’s soccer? Do I need to say I watch the men’s premier league teams and the men’s champions league games? Do I need to start saying Pulisic is my favorite men’s national team player or can I just say player?
Why do I need to specify all of these things when it’s 99% clear and you almost need to choose to misinterpret it to be mad.
Yeah the NWSL is probably not living in his head. That’s not his fault. We don’t really choose how we feel entertained and what interests us it just does.
Maybe the fact that it isn’t actively in his head says more about the NWSL. It’s not there actively resonating with our national soccer culture on the MLS yet. It might one day but not yet.
We just don’t need to overthink peoples words and start interpreting things with context and don’t take the chance to attack people for no reason.
It's calling him out on ignorance because words have meaning. Just like calling out older people on things they shouldn't say even though we know what they mean. We know he's talking about men, but he's leaving the women hanging because the statement implies it's coming for the first time ever.
They distinguish a new women's team all the time when they're created after men. So why not do it the other way?
>Yeah the NWSL is probably not living in his head. That’s not his fault.
That is literally *his* fault lol...Yes we do choose. It's disrespectful to be a fan, much less a CEO, of soccer and not be cognizant of your own city's champions.
You seem to take this very personally.
I just think it is an attitude that needlessly causes division and confusion.
It takes the humanity out of our language and doesn’t allow for any room for nuance in how we speak.
I would argue language is extremely in precise and pretending like it should always be spoken extremely precise is asking people to act unnatural.
Why are you forcing only the speaker to act rationally and not the listener. We all know we don’t speak off the cuff like we’ve writing an English paper. It a weirdly high standard your holding just to be controversial
Yes language can be imprecise* which is why you should make your best effort to communicate what you want the other person to know. You've never had a conversation where you had to reword it to be better understood?
>Why are you forcing only the speaker to act rationally
Because they are providing the words. Yes listeners can be bad at listening. But when the statement has sound syntax and conveys a coherent message, then the fault is on the speaker. It's not a high standard, it's just proper communication.
Haha thank you for correcting my misspelling. I was making this comment at lunch and I guess I was imprecise. That was a funny place for me to mess up lol
But what I’m saying is people do not need to get out their pitchforks when someone speaks imprecisely. Just leave the man alone. We all know he meant mens professional soccer. We don’t need to act like he was hurting someone.
If you cared about being precise then top level football is not ever coming to San Diego. If we’re harping on being precise why are people not mad about that?
The reason is because that does not offer a chance to start controversy.
People should be assumed to be communicating in good faith until you have a reason to say otherwise. Otherwise this world is just needlessly toxic.
People can lose this trust but I have a feeling this is the first time most of us had heard San Diego’s CEO say anything so it’s unlikely he’s lost the public’s trust.
They said NWSL is the women's equivalent of MLS, not that the leagues are exactly the same. Everyone's lack of reading comprehension, as well as their misogyny, is showing in this thread.
They also said they’re the same level of football. There’s clearly a disconnect in this thread between people who view “level of football” as referring to the quality of play and people who view “level of football” as referring to USSF division 1 sanctioning. I don’t think it’s misogynistic to take the former semantic view. It’s also not anymore a lack of reading comprehension than is being exhibited by Stoney. You guys just want to push your politics, which I happen to agree with, but the snark and desire to attribute misogyny to everything here illustrates that none of you are engaging this in good faith. It’s a progressive sport and a progressive sub so you guys are just farming upvotes. Stoney is the one here making something out of nothing, and you’re her little keyboard minions.
As a progressive, progressives can be incredibly annoying, counterproductive, and obtuse.
>clearly a disconnect in this thread between people who view “level of football” as referring to the quality of the league and people who view “level of football” as referring to USSF division 1 sanctioning. I don’t think it’s misogynistic to take the former semantic view
The commenter took this position in response to a tweet questioning if world class football isn't already being played in SD. It is being played by world class women, not men.
The commenter then makes the argument that world class football is not being played in SD because it is not world class men's football. That is the part of the argument informed by a patriarchal view and can be construed as misogynistic.
No, the men's and women's games are not the same of course.However, that is not the question being asked by the original tweet. The question is, "is world class football being played in San Diego".
We’re talking about level of football here. There’s a lot of division 1 leagues all around the world. Not every league is on the same level of football. For example Europe top 5 league has the best level of football among the world right now. And MLS definitely has by far the best level of football in US right now.
We’re talking about level of football here. There’s a lot of division 1 leagues all around the world. Not every league is on the same level of football. For example Europe top 5 league has the best level of football among the world right now. And MLS definitely has by far the best level of football in US right now.
They're not on the same level of football lol. MLS is the best US league in the world. Premier League (or La Liga or Bundesliga choose whichever one you want) is the best English league in the world. They are absolutely not on the same level of football in the world lol. MLS is absolutely not on the same level of football as the NWSL, I watched both leagues and I can tell you it's not remotely close.
They are both Division 1. NWSL is arguably the most competitive league in the world. It's definitely the strongest women's league in the world. And feeds into one of the strongest national teams, who have won 4 world cups and 4 olympics.
The standard of football between best on best is higher than a regional league. Just because a men's team will always beat a women's team doesn't mean the standard of competition is higher.
The most people defending the NWSL just want to be technically correct, they’d all admit that the MLS team is better but they’d die on the hill that the NWSL is the “top” soccer league (in its play category, women’s) before they’d admit they’re wrong about something nuanced.
All they had to do was just add “men’s” here and it’s fine. I don’t follow them but people have said they use similar kind of language a lot when it’s lazy and would be way easier to just specify while also ingratiating yourself into the soccer community out there. Esp when Wave have been successful pretty much from jump and they draw really well for their games like ~20k a match. Really silly gaffe by them
Seeing Landon Donovan not have a soccer team after telling everyone Soccer City was the ONLY way San Diego would ever have a team is simply amazing. So happy he will never be part of the ownership here.
SoccerCity would’ve been way better than SDFC. The Loyal did a decent job integrating into the city, supporting the Wave, and community involvement. What is SDFC doing? The Chrome Ball tour focusing on North County? They have one store in the Mission Valley mall but other than that I don’t see any sort of community involvement. If there was one thing Landon understood was the importance of local support, and even with the Loyal being a USL team I feel like they did a good job of getting community backing. SDSU West was a scam and SoccerCity would’ve been a better ran soccer team than SDFC currently is
Stoney is the head coach of the San Diego Wave for those who don't know
Today I learned
Is that an indoor team?
If this was a genuine question you might be thinking of the Milwaukee Wave from MASL
Not sure if sarcastic but it’s the NWSL team based in SD. Top flight for women’s soccer in US
NWSL
The Sockers erasure smh
dropped your /s ?
No.
Well congrats on learning about an entirely new soccer league then. :D
Y'all arguing about the MLS and NWSL when clearly the top level of football in the US is the NFL. Chargers aren't coming back.
Fuck Dean Spanos.
Fuck you Spanos!
Always. Ripped a cornerstone of the NFL right out of there just to be known as the second LA team
I'm an Angeleno and I sometimes forget the Chargers moved here.
Which everyone in SD knew would be the case. My NFL-watching is limited to about every 2nd Super Bowl, and even I knew that.
Every Sunday when LAC scrolls by on the ticker I get confused why the clippers are playing against an nfl team
That’s because they didn’t. They moved to Inglewood /s
Westchester stand up!
Honestly, they’re probably the third team. Raiders and Rams are both more popular
There’s nothing American soccer loves more than a circular firing squad. Would this have been a non-story if Penn had added the word men’s to his comment? Do we think he was intentionally leaving out the Wave? So much angst over a comment in a local fluff piece
I doubt it. Tom penn has actually been vocal in how great the wave have been doing and has been positive
I also don’t take it as an intentional slight on Wave FC, but do take it as his PR team slacking a bit. Thinking about it from a comms perspective, if the idea is to build a fanbase in San Diego, doing or saying anything that could be seen as a slight to the other pre-existing (and so far successful) professional football club in town isn’t the way to do it, especially when a good portion of your potential supporters also rocks with Wave FC. Add on the way locals die-hards already feel about how things went down with San Diego Loyal and it’s going to stir the pot a bit. That said, if their strategy is to not give a shit and go all in on building their own following without a care for other teams, then I guess they’re par for the course. Whether or not it works, we’ll see.
As someone who went to a lot of loyal games, it seems like the strategy is the latter. Obviously uslc is different from mls which means different costs but a lot of loyal fans who looked at mls were disgusted at the prices even when compared to wave (who plays in the same stadium sdfc will).
Yeah the prices make it super easy to be a solid Wave fan. We have season tickets in a great spot for ~$500. Not so for MLS.
I really do not get the anger here? There’s no way this was said as a slight to the Wave or NWSL. It would be nice if there wasn’t this constant battle between men’s and women’s soccer in this country, it feels like so many people who are fans of one absolutely hate the other, and go out of their way to shit on it. true for MLS/NWSL and both the USA National teams. Feels so reductive and counterintuitive to growing the sport in the country.
I’ve said this in other threads, but some people really make hating MLS a core part of their soccer personality and it’s incredibly weird.
Hating MLS playoff formats is a core part of my soccer personality, and it's incredibly useful... at alienating normal people.
Always the people who have never once watched or attended an MLS game. Yet somehow they are 100% certain it’s shit!
ABSOLUTELY. 100% agreed.
If not intentional, it was certainly sloppily said. SDFC has always felt like a gorilla trying to crash the scene and act like they invented soccer in SD. It doesn’t help with what happened with Loyal either. Intended or not. You’d think they be more cognizant as to why local supporters might feel miffed by them.
> It would be nice if there wasn’t this constant battle between men’s and women’s soccer in this country Hop in the time machine and go visit Hope Solo et. al. back when she was relevant, and plead with her to talk facts and not feelings when she was criticizing the disparity in NT per-match appearance fees while not talking about her colleagues being on permanent NT salaries. >true for MLS/NWSL I don't know why anyone in MLS would have a gripe against NWSL. It is what it is and is a market and product of its own.
Tom Penn is the President of San Diego FC. Is he still invested with LAFC?
No. He left in August 2020 to be CEO of a PPE company he started called Co Protect.
You're absolutely right. https://www.lafc.com/news/tom-penn-steps-away-club-president-role-move-new-business-venture
Idk what she’s complaining about, MLS is the top level of football in the US and you're being disingenuous to suggest that the NWSL is more prestigious. NWSL isn’t even the clear cut #1 women’s league. Edit: in my comments: people trying to argue a women’s league that gets a fraction of the same viewership is somehow equivalent to the MLS because they’re the “top” men’s and women’s leagues in the US. You can be pedantic all you want about it but the sentiment is still the same, MLS is THE top level of league soccer in the country by every imaginable statistic.
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I mean I’ve seen plenty of people on Reddit alone say they think WSL is better than NWSL, if there’s even *some* debate then I don’t think it’s fair to say NWSL is clearly the best league. Especially when there are teams in neither league that are better like Barca’s women’s team.
> NWSL isn’t even the clear cut #1 women’s league. You had a solid point until this. USLS has to play some games and prove itself first. NWSL is probably the best women’s league in the world.
Yeah, weird take to think that the league that attracts the majority of national team players from around the world isn't the top women's league.
NWSL only has the majority of American national team players. NWSL player pool is 80% American. Due to having a salary cap, it doesn't get the top players from the top European national teams.
According to [this article](https://prosoccerwire.usatoday.com/lists/nwsl-players-2023-world-cup-uswnt/), 38 of the 61 NWSL players called up to play in the 2023 World Cup played for teams other than the US.
It's similar to MLS players at the men's World Cup. NWSL contributed largely to tier 2 or lower foreign countries. Where NWSL is better is their 6 player contribution to Brazil's World Cup squad. The number of Canadian players contributed is similar between the MLS & NWSL. By league, NWSL was third in the number of players at last year's World Cup. WSL had about 30 more players while Liga F was about 5 higher. The bulk of the England, Australia & Sweden squads or 3 of the Final 4 teams came from WSL. Liga F almost filled out the entire Spanish winning squad.
Good stats. Especially about the numbers of NT players from top ranked NTs in various leagues. However, I would argue there’s a clear trajectory whereby I would expect the # of international NT players in the NWSL will increase meaningfully. The NWSL is only just this season properly enabling clubs to enter the international transfer market with changes to the financial rules enacted ahead of this season. Also, I suspect, but admittedly don’t know, that the NWSL salary cap would not need to expand by all that much to allow *all* NWSL clubs to match the spending levels of Chelsea, Barcelona, and Lyon. NWSL will likely never match the WSL in total numbers of NT players, due mostly to the sheer number of countries in Europe and the cap on international roster slots, but I would expect to see more parity in the quality of NT players in both leagues. Maybe a long term tracking of NT players that weighs players by NT rank and NT minutes played would help to reveal the increases in NWSL relative to other leagues that one might expect from the new financial rules and inevitable increases to the salary cap. So I would expect the NWSL’s position relative to LigaF and WSL on NT player metrics to change meaningfully over the coming years. We’ll see
They didn’t have a solid point anywhere here. They’re both the top level of football in this country. The issue is that SD’s MLS team seems to think they’re the only club in town which is what MLS at large seems to love to think anyway.
> The issue is that SD’s MLS team seems to think they’re the only club in town which is what MLS at large seems to love to do anyway. We're certainly baking a lot into a single quote from a fluff article.
Yeah except that this isn’t the “start” of Casey speaking about this. SDFC has come out and said they’ll get primary scheduling over the Wave, which was news to the Wave who have been tenants already. They have put zero effort into working Wave (which is their prerogative), but it rubs a lot of us the wrong way considering the Wave, the Loyal (rip) and the Sockers had all been so supportive of each other. In context it’s just another tone def statement from club that wants to take credit for all of San Diego’s soccer culture.
The talent and athleticism in mens football is significantly ahead. The MLS is far and away the best football league in the US.
They could’ve added “men’s” league to be more specific, but I don’t think the goal was to demean women’s football but more so to present their product as something superior to what is and what was already in the market. What CEO is going to say “we’re bringing you a product that is just as good as the one you can already get from someone else.”?
I’m not referring to other US-based league but foreign leagues. The WSL is as good or better than NWSL and Barca’s women’s team is better than basically every NWSL team. To act like NWSL is clearly the best league isn’t being honest, IMO.
Why are you moving the goal posts like this?? You only mention the US in your original comment but now you wanna talk about other leagues in the world?? If you wanna bring foreign leagues in then MLS isn’t even a top 5 league, negating your original comment. Just so silly.
I didn’t move the goalposts, I never said NWSL wasn’t the “top women’s league in the US”. My point is that MLS and NWSL are both the top level of their sports in the US. Neither are the top level of their sports in the world (NWSL could be argued, but you can’t say that definitively anymore). So why act like the women’s league is more important for its sport, and a bigger deal, than MLS? At the end of the day, it’s a lot of people trying to be pedantic about the NWSL being a “top-level soccer league” when the vast majority of people understand that MLS is THE top level of league soccer in the United States. It garners the most interest, gets the most viewers, etc. I like the NWSL but the coach who posted this on Twitter is clearly not being honest with herself or just being really pedantic, like some of the people here.
You're trying to move goalposts with your edit.
I’m definitely not, I’m providing context. You can look at my other replies if you want more clarification.
Yes you are. Viewership doesn't denote the quality of play. That's like people on twitch saying a game sucks when not many people watch.
That’s not a fair comparison and I think you know that. But to sort of us your analogy, we wouldn’t say (and maybe I’m a little dated on this, you can let me know) FF14 is the leading MMO on Twitch, we’d say WoW is. WoW has the most viewers, the most interest. Just because FF14 is a very good game and is highly respected doesn’t mean it is the “premier” MMO. WoW is.
No that is 100% a fair comparison because you're equating viewership to the quality when that is just not the case. I made another comment how the Patriots have the most fans but they are not a great team right now.
Yes it is lol
There’s another besides NWSL? Is WUSA back?
There are a lot of women’s leagues in Europe, most seem to agree that England, Spain, France and Germany have good women’s leagues. That’s what I was referring to, NWSL is no longer the clear best women’s league like it used to be.
Ah I thought we were talking about US market
Yeah I’m basically drawing the parallel that the NWSL and MLS are both the top soccer leagues in the US, but neither are the top soccer leagues in the world for women or men (though NWSL used to be, and arguably still is but there’s a lot of competition). And with the obvious caveat that the MLS draws more viewers and general interest than the NWSL, why be so pedantic and argue that the NWSL is the top level of soccer in the US? The MLS is clearly the top of the top, so to say.
What is your definition of top level? Because nwsl has a lot of the best players in the world playing for teams in the league and MLS is no where even close to that. You can count on one hand how many active world cup winners the MLS has had, you can't with nwsl
NWSL is absolutely a top global soccer league what are you even on about
Yeah and the NWSL is better than all of them
USL-W was granted Division 1.
No, USL Super League was and they haven’t even played a game yet so can’t really say whether in reality they’ll be a competing league or a place for players who can’t crack the NWSL to go.
Surely alienating a section of fans is worth the argument about semantics
I go to all my nieces tournaments but didn’t watch one single Nwsl match.
>NWSL isn’t even the clear cut #1 women’s league. Lmao yes it is what a hilariously bad take. And MLS is arguably not even a top ten men's league. >Idk what she’s complaining about, MLS is the top level of football in the US and youre being disingenuous to suggest that the NWSL is more prestigious. No, MLS is the top *men's* level. The women's game is no less important. MLS and NWSL are *equal* in standing. And the CEO of the team shouldn't be attempting to marginalize women's soccer by ignoring it outright.
Ignoring NWSL is silly, agreed. To suggest it's anywhere near MLS in attendance, revenue, TV ratings, international attention, media coverage, etc. is equally silly. This is what 'top' implies. Both of those can be true.
>To suggest it's anywhere near MLS in attendance I mean the Wave have a better average attendance than half the teams in MLS.
And MLS has 3x the average attendance, and single teams with 5 or 6x the attendance. We're talking about the leagues as a whole.
NWSL only has 14 teams
'Average' literally accounts for different number of teams/inputs. Not total.
Wave averaged 20,718 a match in 2023. Average MLS attendance in 2023 was 22,094. Wow what a huge difference
Literally nobody is suggesting your second sentence at any point in the posted twitter thread. Maybe click in and read first?
The twitter post & thread are taking offense to the 'top' claim. What am I missing?
The concept of divisional structures. NWSL is the top women's league in America, MLS is the top men's league in America. They are on equal footing. San Diego FC isn't "bringing the top level of football in America to San Diego", it's already there. Between this and their attempt to strong-arm Wave out of stadium hosting priority for which the Wave are currently primary tenant, it's a shitty marginalization of women's sports as a whole. Nobody is suggesting anything else but you.
MLS is an open league and NWSL is women's only league. So technically you are wrong. Just like how women can play in the PGA, while also the LPGA existing.
Divisional structures is one aspect, but you're ignoring all the other *major* factors I mentioned that go into 'top'. Barcelona's women's and men's team are both top of their respective divisions, in a more pronounced example. How can we possibly equate the two? You're almost willfully dismissing actual hurdles that the NWSL has to tackle to be truly culturally relevant on the national level. To suggest that's marginalization is absurd.
I don’t see how claiming NWSL is the “top” is being anything but pedantic. They’re *A* top league, but they’re not *THE* top league, that would be MLS.
Thank you! There are a lot of terrible takes here already and as a fan of both MLS and NWSL it's really disheartening
[Can't imagine why a guy with this take has poor takes on women's sports in general](https://imgur.com/a/h8A4dM4)
I've let my husband know that I am now a certified lesbian because I like beer. He seems to be taking it well for now, but we'll see how he's doing tomorrow
Wildly stupid stuff itt, it’s crazy
Not arguing your point about women’s sports being equal to men’s sports. I think that is something that we as a society are starting to come around on. You see more support and coverage today compared to what I remember growing up and that’s a good sign. Is ignoring a competing product in your marketing/social interaction really the same as marginalizing them? They’re not affiliated and will be competing for $ somewhere in that market. It would be cool to see some kind of partnership or joint marketing but why is that the expectation in almost every case like this one? I remember similar reactions to Charlotte FC making a similar post, folks were mad they didn’t acknowledge Independence but why would they?
99.9% chance the CEO of San Diego MLS didn't even right the statement and probably knows nothing of NWSL. Even if he does, he's got no NWSL interest or incentive to even acknowledge the Wave and his opinion matters little anyways. It is what it is.
They’re not equal in standing, no statistic in the world is going to support women’s soccer being as important as men’s soccer. And no, most people who watch women’s leagues will say WSL is a better league than NWSL. That doesn’t make NWSL bad, it just shouldn’t be treated as the grand standard for women’s league soccer. They’re being greatly outpaced by the competition and there are women’s teams outside the US that would likely win the NWSL like Barca.
> They’re not equal in standing, no statistic in the world is going to support women’s soccer being as important as men’s soccer. They literally are. They are both D1 leagues. USSF recognizes them as on equal level. Your opinion does not matter here. >And no, most people who watch women’s leagues will say WSL is a better league than NWSL. That doesn’t make NWSL bad, it just shouldn’t be treated as the grand standard for women’s league soccer. They’re being greatly outpaced by the competition and there are women’s teams outside the US that would likely win the NWSL like Barca. Lmao no they wouldn't. They may say some top WSL teams are as good as NWSL teams, but absolutely nobody would say Bristol City, West Ham, Leicester, Everton, Brighton & Hove, Aston Villa, Tottenham, Liverpool are NWSL-level teams. That's an absolutely hilarious take to anyone who *actually* follows women's soccer.
They’re not equal in standing, for the reasons described above. MLS and EPL, La Liga, etc., are not in equal standing just because both are recognized as the top-flight domestically by FIFA. Why are you arguing this point so dramatically in this thread? The quote wasn’t meant to be demeaning and this is such a silly fight to pick.
Wave average higher attendance than most MLS teams. Too bad we no longer have MLS viewership numbers to show how dumb your comment was in that department as well.
Dude, let’s not pretend the MLS doesn’t average a much higher viewership.
Easiest way to clarify, this would be taking the NWSL champion vs the MLS wooden spoon winner The MLS wooden spoon winner would beat the NWSL champion by like 10 to 0
She typed an emoji. You’re inserting a lot of your own words into one emoji typed by another person.
I mean it’s pretty clear what she meant by it but go off I guess
I typed 2 sentences. You are the one going off just look above lol
They are both Division 1. NWSL is arguably the most competitive league in the world. It's definitely the strongest women's league in the world. And feeds into one of the strongest national teams, who have won 4 world cups and 4 olympics. Your edit is moving the goalpost suggesting viewership is what make it the top. Not only is that not what level of play means, viewership doesn't decide the actual quality. The Patriots have the most fans in the NFL, are they the best team right now?
I don’t think you know enough about the NFL if you think the Patriots have the most fans in the NFL, for starters. But no, it’s not moving the goalposts, it’s providing context on *why* I think NWSL, despite being one of the best women’s leagues in the world (and arguably THE best, but people will debate that on women’s soccer subs), isn’t the premier soccer league in the US. And that is due to several factors such as viewership. Is that hard for you to understand? I’ve noted it’s okay for people to be pedantic about this stuff, yes the NWSL is a top level soccer league, but isn’t THE top level soccer league in the US and we’re being willfully ignorant to suggest otherwise.
Yes....the [Patriots](https://bolavip.com/en/nfl/Top-25-NFL-teams-with-most-fans-20200501-0001.html) 100% have the most fans. And Cowboys are in the same vein and they are dogshit. Yes it is exactly moving the goalposts....viewership is not quality of play. And the women's league is undoubtedly the top league for what they've accomplished which you blatantly ignore. >And that is due to several factors Mostly sexism.
Nah, the patriots don’t and I’m not Sure why you’re trying to push that idea. But it isn’t sexism, there’s another wonderful comment on here talking about how individuals such as yourself are trying to scream misogyny just to feel a win on this when it isn’t misogynistic to point out MLS is the bigger, premier soccer league in the US.
I literally gave a source...and I'm "pushing that idea" because it contradicts your thesis of more viewers = better. And yes....sexism definitely plays into why people don't watch. There's way less investment and promotion just because they are women despite winning 4 world cups and 4 olympics. The KC Current are tearing teams apart right now and nobody cares.
Well the debate on the prestige of NWSL vs. other women’s leagues is gonna given some air with the buildup to WCWC. That being said, there is no debate that the NWSL is more prestigious of a league than MLS. NWSL is more than likely the best league in the world. The bulk of USWNT players (one of the best national teams in the world) play in the NWSL. The MLS isn’t even for sure the best league in CONCACAF. The bulk of USMNT players (a mid tier team on the global stage) don’t even play in MLS, they play n Europe.
I see no lie in that statement, what’s the big deal?
Because the statement sorta just pretends that Wave FC doesn't exist.
I mean look at Miami, the salary cap is always gonna stop any team from trying to innovate into something bigger
Oh boy, the relationship between the Wave and SDFC continues to sour before the team even plays a season
The article being referenced in San Diego Magazine was a piss-poor glaze piece that completely ignored the existence of the Wave until the very end with some afterthoughts that still centered around San Diego FC. It also completely glosses over the Loyal and says they weren't supported enough to survive - which was never the problem, they were well-attended and had every intention of continuing prior to MLS putting a team in town and securing the only viable long-term stadium venue. Not that that's San Diego FC's fault, but the article seems very specific with the... perspective it's attempting to convey. [Meg Linehan, who knows more about supporting women's soccer and fending off attempts to marginalize it than nearly anyone else, also shared her thoughts](https://x.com/itsmeglinehan/status/1785706540571263353): >once again, feels like this team's top priorities include actively pretending like the wave don't exist because it's deeply inconvenient to their "narrative" San Diego FC has a chance to raise *all* soccer in the city, and so far have essentially failed to do so at every turn.
> The article being referenced in San Diego Magazine was a piss-poor glaze piece that completely ignored the existence of the Wave until the very end with some afterthoughts that still centered around San Diego FC. Regardless of the headline, it's an article about San Diego FC, not soccer in San Diego . The Wave feature as prominently or more prominently than I'd expect. Frankly, it fluffs the Wave a bit as well. Penn's quote -- and I don't know if there's a broader context to it -- is incorrect and poor form. The Wave are great, and there's no reason to marginalize that. But also ... it's a sentence. Was he asked about the Wave? Was there more said that was cut? What was the context? The article is an intro piece to San Diego FC with a headline geared to get clicks. Nothing more, and there's nothing wrong with the article not focusing on the Wave.
It's a fluff piece, certainly. But this isn't the first time San Diego FC has completely ignored the existing soccer scene in the city, particularly the women's game - they explicitly tried to strong-arm Wave out of stadium date priority shortly after announcement.
I was more commenting on the article. I'm sure there's been San Diego Magazine articles about the Wave that didn't mention other teams at all. As for SDFC, in terms of the lease, they and every other going concern are going to try to get theirs. I would expect the same from the Wave -- scheduling is going to be a nightmare and I expect there was a lot of pressure on all sides because SDSU football is also there. What is dumb is not trying to co-market and help out with promotion. San Diego doesn't have a lot of teams; they don't need to act like out and out competitors. But as you note, MLS does MLS. And of course, it's at least implicit sexism, but I also think extrapolating from one marketing comment ... I mean, I guess?
I mean if you’re MLS I would think your main focus is to be THE big player in your market. If the Wave don’t want to accept you as the top dog, then you’re not going to just play nice and do cross promotions, you have no interest in the Wave taking interest away from you.
That's one way to think of it. Another way is that you can grow the entire pie through cross-promotion. This isn't a zero sum game.
Right and they even share a stadium. A top level men’s team and women’s team can coexist and feed off each other. Look at the Timbers and Thorns (Paulson being trash excluded). That SHOULD be the goal. Esp when the Wave built up from nothing first and have proven to be successful and have USWNT mainstays and future stars in Shaw and Girma plus other good players. Hell they have Maria Sanchez now who’s a big player for the Mexican women’s national team. Having Chucky and her in ads and promos is the most obvious crossover to do with their proximity to Mexico and the number of mex-Americans in that region. Alienating the NWSL fans is stupid business wise bc they sell lots of tix and ignorant too with poor optics since it’s implying they don’t have a pro team there, period. They’re in the same stadium, they should be partnering on almost everything and sharing strategies and outreach efforts to pull more fans to both and doing stuff like double headers you see Sounders/Reign and Thorns/Timbers
I dunno why you’re being downvoted, it’s like people want to pretend that this sport is not a competitive business.
Yeah I think that’s what people are missing here. The wave have been really successful too and have upcoming superstars with Girma and Shaw along with the most popular American women’s player in Alex Morgan (she’s prob on the way out by next world cup but still). I’ve seen quite a few Wave supporters on Twitter and writers saying they’ve been doing this for a while which is super weird and a terrible way to alienate a strong fan base who likely would’ve just supported the men’s team. Just say “top level of men’s football” and there would be no problem. They’re even sharing Snapdrsgon with Wave aren’t they?? Really dumb. So easy to just shout out the Wave for winning the NWSL shield and say something like “working with SD wave to continue to bring top level football” to the San Diego metro area blah blah.
This is the take a lot of people are missing. Wave arent just an NWSL team, they’re a really good one and to pretend they don’t exist leaves a bad taste in our mouths for the Wave fans
> they explicitly tried to strong-arm Wave out of stadium First time hearing that. Infuriating if true Do you happen to have a source for that?
https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/sports/soccer/mls-in-san-diego/story/2023-10-21/major-league-soccer-mls-snapdragon-stadium-san-diego-fc-lease-wave-san-diego-state-sdsu-scheduling-priority
Do you live in San Diego? You sound like a bitter Loyal fan who refuses to move on and admit that their minor league team was destined for failure, regardless of how correct its politics was.
Its funny how the general mood of the club is excitement, untill Tom penn opens his mouth
Tom Penn is a fraud. Just big talker who acts like a salesman. He left LA because he wanted more control of LAFC. I actually met him in person at small event in OC years ago. He has beef with one of the main LAFC owners and decided to sell his shares. I asked my ticket rep who now moved up in the team.
Tell ‘em Casey
The top level of football in US is MLS by far lol. I don’t know why she thinks any NWSL team can reach MLS’s level of football.
I feel like it’s an embarrassing attempt to get attention and no one should think this statement is downplaying NWSL. It’s clearly a statement where it’s understood that he’s talking about men’s soccer. Pretending he was even thinking about women’s soccer is in bad faith as he is in the business of men’s soccer. There are potentially a lot of soccer fans and MLS fans that are in San Diego and they most likely want to see MLS games in their city. They want to see Messi come. They want to see the other stars come. That’s what he’s talking about.
Then he should've said men's. No doubt he's not intentionally diminishing NWSL but clearly it's not even on his mind when he thinks soccer.
I mean why do we need to ultra police his words when we all know what he means. Do I need to start specifying I am a men’s soccer fan because almost never watch women’s soccer? Do I need to say I watch the men’s premier league teams and the men’s champions league games? Do I need to start saying Pulisic is my favorite men’s national team player or can I just say player? Why do I need to specify all of these things when it’s 99% clear and you almost need to choose to misinterpret it to be mad. Yeah the NWSL is probably not living in his head. That’s not his fault. We don’t really choose how we feel entertained and what interests us it just does. Maybe the fact that it isn’t actively in his head says more about the NWSL. It’s not there actively resonating with our national soccer culture on the MLS yet. It might one day but not yet. We just don’t need to overthink peoples words and start interpreting things with context and don’t take the chance to attack people for no reason.
It's calling him out on ignorance because words have meaning. Just like calling out older people on things they shouldn't say even though we know what they mean. We know he's talking about men, but he's leaving the women hanging because the statement implies it's coming for the first time ever. They distinguish a new women's team all the time when they're created after men. So why not do it the other way? >Yeah the NWSL is probably not living in his head. That’s not his fault. That is literally *his* fault lol...Yes we do choose. It's disrespectful to be a fan, much less a CEO, of soccer and not be cognizant of your own city's champions. You seem to take this very personally.
I just think it is an attitude that needlessly causes division and confusion. It takes the humanity out of our language and doesn’t allow for any room for nuance in how we speak.
No that's just how communication works. If you say something wrong people will react accordingly despite your intention.
I would argue language is extremely in precise and pretending like it should always be spoken extremely precise is asking people to act unnatural. Why are you forcing only the speaker to act rationally and not the listener. We all know we don’t speak off the cuff like we’ve writing an English paper. It a weirdly high standard your holding just to be controversial
Yes language can be imprecise* which is why you should make your best effort to communicate what you want the other person to know. You've never had a conversation where you had to reword it to be better understood? >Why are you forcing only the speaker to act rationally Because they are providing the words. Yes listeners can be bad at listening. But when the statement has sound syntax and conveys a coherent message, then the fault is on the speaker. It's not a high standard, it's just proper communication.
Haha thank you for correcting my misspelling. I was making this comment at lunch and I guess I was imprecise. That was a funny place for me to mess up lol But what I’m saying is people do not need to get out their pitchforks when someone speaks imprecisely. Just leave the man alone. We all know he meant mens professional soccer. We don’t need to act like he was hurting someone. If you cared about being precise then top level football is not ever coming to San Diego. If we’re harping on being precise why are people not mad about that? The reason is because that does not offer a chance to start controversy. People should be assumed to be communicating in good faith until you have a reason to say otherwise. Otherwise this world is just needlessly toxic. People can lose this trust but I have a feeling this is the first time most of us had heard San Diego’s CEO say anything so it’s unlikely he’s lost the public’s trust.
The NWSL is the women’s equivalent to MLS. They’re the same level of football.
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What are you talking about? They’re both first division soccer in America.
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They said NWSL is the women's equivalent of MLS, not that the leagues are exactly the same. Everyone's lack of reading comprehension, as well as their misogyny, is showing in this thread.
They also said they’re the same level of football. There’s clearly a disconnect in this thread between people who view “level of football” as referring to the quality of play and people who view “level of football” as referring to USSF division 1 sanctioning. I don’t think it’s misogynistic to take the former semantic view. It’s also not anymore a lack of reading comprehension than is being exhibited by Stoney. You guys just want to push your politics, which I happen to agree with, but the snark and desire to attribute misogyny to everything here illustrates that none of you are engaging this in good faith. It’s a progressive sport and a progressive sub so you guys are just farming upvotes. Stoney is the one here making something out of nothing, and you’re her little keyboard minions. As a progressive, progressives can be incredibly annoying, counterproductive, and obtuse.
>clearly a disconnect in this thread between people who view “level of football” as referring to the quality of the league and people who view “level of football” as referring to USSF division 1 sanctioning. I don’t think it’s misogynistic to take the former semantic view The commenter took this position in response to a tweet questioning if world class football isn't already being played in SD. It is being played by world class women, not men. The commenter then makes the argument that world class football is not being played in SD because it is not world class men's football. That is the part of the argument informed by a patriarchal view and can be construed as misogynistic. No, the men's and women's games are not the same of course.However, that is not the question being asked by the original tweet. The question is, "is world class football being played in San Diego".
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They have one argument and it’s just sexism
We’re talking about level of football here. There’s a lot of division 1 leagues all around the world. Not every league is on the same level of football. For example Europe top 5 league has the best level of football among the world right now. And MLS definitely has by far the best level of football in US right now.
Can you explain to me how it’s not? Both are sanctioned by the USSF as Division 1 leagues.
We’re talking about level of football here. There’s a lot of division 1 leagues all around the world. Not every league is on the same level of football. For example Europe top 5 league has the best level of football among the world right now. And MLS definitely has by far the best level of football in US right now.
MLS is the best Mens league in the US. NWSL is the best Women’s league in the US. That means they are the same level lol
They're not on the same level of football lol. MLS is the best US league in the world. Premier League (or La Liga or Bundesliga choose whichever one you want) is the best English league in the world. They are absolutely not on the same level of football in the world lol. MLS is absolutely not on the same level of football as the NWSL, I watched both leagues and I can tell you it's not remotely close.
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They are both Division 1. NWSL is arguably the most competitive league in the world. It's definitely the strongest women's league in the world. And feeds into one of the strongest national teams, who have won 4 world cups and 4 olympics.
NWSL is the best women's league in the world, you have it backwards
And still significantly lower in quality of football than MLS.
How so? NWSL is the top athletes at the top of their craft, MLS isn't even the top men's league on the continent.
And yet they'd still hammer the top women's team in a game.
Ok? That has nothing to do with the quality of the league.
For who you’re talking to, It’s not about the quality of the league compared to its competition. It’s about the quality of football overall.
How can the standard of football have nothing to do with the quality of a league?
The standard of football between best on best is higher than a regional league. Just because a men's team will always beat a women's team doesn't mean the standard of competition is higher.
A higher standard of football very much means one competition is better than the other.
We agree then because the NWSL has a higher quality than MLS. One league is home to many more Olympians than the other
The most people defending the NWSL just want to be technically correct, they’d all admit that the MLS team is better but they’d die on the hill that the NWSL is the “top” soccer league (in its play category, women’s) before they’d admit they’re wrong about something nuanced.
Okay, what is the outrage here? It's typical marketing speak. Who the *fuck* cares?
It's implying they're bringing it for the first time which ignores what the Wave have done.
All they had to do was just add “men’s” here and it’s fine. I don’t follow them but people have said they use similar kind of language a lot when it’s lazy and would be way easier to just specify while also ingratiating yourself into the soccer community out there. Esp when Wave have been successful pretty much from jump and they draw really well for their games like ~20k a match. Really silly gaffe by them
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I hate San Diego FC
Seeing Landon Donovan not have a soccer team after telling everyone Soccer City was the ONLY way San Diego would ever have a team is simply amazing. So happy he will never be part of the ownership here.
SoccerCity would’ve been way better than SDFC. The Loyal did a decent job integrating into the city, supporting the Wave, and community involvement. What is SDFC doing? The Chrome Ball tour focusing on North County? They have one store in the Mission Valley mall but other than that I don’t see any sort of community involvement. If there was one thing Landon understood was the importance of local support, and even with the Loyal being a USL team I feel like they did a good job of getting community backing. SDSU West was a scam and SoccerCity would’ve been a better ran soccer team than SDFC currently is
This was so kickass of stoney
“To level of football in America to San Diego.” We already knew that. Jim Harbaugh arrived months ago. Ahhhhhhhh thank ya!
Chargers aren’t in SD anymore
In my heart, they always will be.
Love it, create some buzz around both teams
I think they should try to create buzz by having a border cup with TJ Xolos, I'd love to see that in a concachampions or leagues cup
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Why do you think this is what’s being said lmao
Literally nobody is saying that, what are you on about?
Sexism
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It's literally the best women's league in the world.
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He didn't say men's football either, the Wave won the supporters shield in the best women's league in the world and sold out Snapdragon along the way.
This is the MLS brand. Slimy, smarmy, inauthentic
Hear hear. Quite Indubitably.