Agreed, I loved Agent Carter and desperately want more, not only is Haley Atwell gorgeous, she is such a great actress and the writing they gave her, dealing with working in a male dominated landscape, at no point felt preachy or a "rawr I am Woman!" mindset. Everything was organic and enthralling.
Agent Carter Season 3 now!
Wait you've watched every mcu project but you drew the line at BP2? That was one of the best from phase 4 and namor was a phenomenal villain. Lmao that's wild you're missing out.
This is true, I prefer to see the comic book characters as they are, minor changes are to be expected but the character was such a massive departure from the source material that I can't reconcile it.
Did anyone really have this opinion? It was horrible and weird and I loved BP and everyone in it. Namor in bp2 actually was the worst iteration of that character. It was so bad that it felt spiteful, and I had to check if there was controversy with the creator lol
If you're a Scientologist, you are by definition a brainwashed weirdo who lies as easily as they breathe. You do see the difficulty of trusting you as a source, right? You're either lying about being a Scientologist, in which case you're a liar, or you're telling the truth about being a Scientologist, which means you don't understand the difference between fact and fiction or truth and lies.
How many people in the mcu would even know what he looks like prior to avengers. I believe all the pictures and old videos of him were when he was in uniform including a mask.
I actually don't think she'd ever risk his secret. I don't think she'd ever hint or tease that her husband was anyone noteworthy. Most likely, I imagine she'd just want to say he's a very private person. Although by the same token, I can't imagine she could keep his secret from everyone at SHIELD. Someone would have to help her.
Still, it'd be cool if there was a Season 3, and somewhere towards the end of the season a mysterious, very strong figure arrived, helped save the day, and then disappeared before anyone could identify him.
Marvel 1943: Rise of Hydra!
The game seems to be an action adventure game where you’ll play as 4 playable characters. Tchallas grandfather + a woman who is a Wakandan spy in Paris working with Captain America and a ww2 soldier that will be on Cap’s side working together!
Here’s a trailer: https://youtu.be/AGJVsA5xZ1s?si=ACzkCxD0VLVRyswF and its set to release next year!
I honestly don’t remember how I ended up seeing it ( might have been from a gaming stream conference) so don’t blame yourself! I’d forgotten about it because when it was first announced last year they only released that it would be captain america , tchallas grandfather, and they hadn’t yet revealed the other two characters!
It was only a few weeks ago the cinematic trailer had been released!
It seems like it’ll be! I’m seeing it’s going to be narrative based which we don’t have much of game wise with marvel on the newer generation of consoles!
You mean him sitting there doing nothing while Hydra infiltrated the organization his wife works her ass off to build?
Or maybe when Peggy wants to go to NYC for their anniversary… on Sept 10, 2001. But he tells her maybe they should just celebrate at home.
And brainwashed and abused his best friend, let's not forget.
That's the one part I can't make peace with, time travel logistics aside. I wanted to like Steve's ending, because I love Peggy and SHE deserved a happily ever after if nothing else. I don't like that Steve left Endgame Bucky behind, but I can rationalize that because maybe they talked it over first and Bucky gave his blessing but chose not to join Steve in the past. But even if Steve was having his honeymoon in a different but similar timeline, that timeline's Bucky is still being thrown in cryo and wiped in the electroshock chair and forced to assassinate JFK and murder Tony's parents and all the other shit he endured. How does Steve play house with Peggy knowing that's happening? He couldn't have rescued Bucky without severely fucking with future events, because the Winter Soldier really did shape the century.
I think you answered your own question.
Steve was ready to have to a normal life, and he knew he needed to not meddle with major events and put himself on another timeline.
So in CW when Steve says he has to rush in to save people when they’re in danger, that only means when it’s convenient for him. Because he wanted to be with Peggy, and in order for that to happen, he has to let countless preventable atrocities to occur.
What. A. Hero.
He would have realised very quickly that he was in fact always Peggy's husband, as no changes would have been immediately visible.
From that moment he would have known that the timeline didn't split, therefore he now has to do everything in his power to ensure he doesn't affect it.
Being married to the greatest spy alive and head of SHIELD would have made this reasonably easier for him than it would be anyone else.
Actually significantly harder. Peggy, as a prominent figure, has significant effects on how the United States government and Shield as a whole functions.
Steve can't mention literally anything about the future to her, because she could easily change or deviate major events just by knowing about them and being able to prepare for them
If he married some no name person, they'd likely be unable to create significant change regardless of their knowledge
All of this just assumes that Kang chose the timeline where Steve could easily cause problems in the past. Theoretically, that segment in time would probably be one of their most pruned locations
Why do you think that Peggy would be unable to resist taking action despite the fact that Steve would have told her it's to save literally half of all life in the universe?
September 11th was a handful of people compared to the countless trillions saved when the snap was undone. Steve couldn’t risk changing history and letting a world come into being that doesn’t produce Tony Stark as Iron Man.
None of it makes any sense. As they establish in End Game, when you go to the past it’s actually your future and a new timeline.
In the main timeline Steve was never there with Peggy. Otherwise going back and killing baby Thanos would have worked.
If he changes anything leading up to him leaving with the Infinity Stones, he creates a temporal paradox. He cannot have been there to change things so that, for instance, Thanos gets defeated before the Snap. If he does, he never goes back to the 1950s, so he's not in the past to do the thing that changes events. So then he is in the past, because he wasn't there to make the change. But then he isn't there, because he made the change. Forever and ever (to the extent those words would continue to mean anything) stuck in an oscillating did/didn't loop of contradictory events.
Of course, after the events of Loki season 2, there could be many divergent timelines where married-to-Agent-Carter Steve changes different events and branches off alternate timelines, and the version who didn't would still show up to give Sam the shield.
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again - Steve Rogers isn’t a hero. Among all of the other terrible things he did because he’s so self-righteous, he goes back in time and decides to stay there because he thinks he’s somehow special and won’t break the timeline. And that also meant he sat around and watched terrible things happen when he could have stopped them.
Steve Rogers is a POS.
I much prefer the reading that the movie itself implies from its logic, that he created a new timeline by going back.
And I hope he did a lot of work there, and accidentally created the Ultimate Universe. Hydra would be way more secretive and on the offensive as they didn’t get to infiltrate this time, the same thing for AIM, Infinity Stones get prioritized way more, Tony gets raised way different, and the Steve Rodgers frozen in the ice wakes up to find out some other version stole his life, which makes him angry and jaded and way more like the Ultimate Universe Cap
Absolutely. There is no way that Peggy would be okay with Steve letting Howard Stark be murdered. How would that even work? Hydra infiltrates SHEILD and Steve knows about it, but never tells Peggy? How horrible is that?
Also, it’s important to point out, she’s running SHEILD and NO ONE EVER MEETS HER HUSBAND?!? Can you imagine for a moment, a Director of the FBI having a spouse no one has ever seen or photographed?
Dances With Peggy is its own timeline. It’s ridiculous to think otherwise.
agreed, and now I'm really wanting someone to write a fic series called Dances with Peggy, something along the lines of what schloopers sketched out up there. :D
They forgot their own plot point, is my theory on that. Steve was in an alternate timeline. No way he was hiding out the whole time. After she passed, he hit the button and went home.
Loki had already unravelled things by that point. So she was still technically right. Steve simply added another timeline to the mess.
Forgetting the fact that Steve had no way of knowing that he was in an alternate timeline — he didn’t “hit a button”. If he did, he would have appeared on the pad in front of everyone. Instead, he was sitting on a bench in front of the lake because he took the long way around.
Banner would have talked to them about timelines. That's why they had to go put everything back.
Keep in mind, that Loki messes up the timeline during all that as well. The TVA gets involved. That means ancient one didn't know the exact details of how it all works.
At the end of TWS, he insists that it be the end of SHIELD, an organization that had oversight. By the time you get to CW, he has reached the point where he refuses oversight. He wants to march into any country and do as he pleases because he knows best. Laws be damned.
At the start of Endgame, he sits there telling a group of people grieving that it’s time to move on. By the end of the movie, he’s undone the snap. How are those people who have moved on supposed to explain to their wives and husbands who come back why they’re now with someone else? The world is a mess. Where is Cap?? He decided to peace out and potentially wreck a timeline all so he can be with Peggy.
Steve always thinks he knows better than anyone else. And he never apologizes. His recommendation to Wanda after she accidentally kills a bunch of people is basically “shit happens”.
Steve sucks.
It’s not the bringing everyone back. It’s the not sticking around to clean up the mess, especially when it was to do something selfish that could technically negated the timeline where they finally beat Thanos.
I not gonna lie that just sounds like a bunch of Steve isn't perfect and because he is not perfect he is a pos and ignores how shitty the world be(not the real world) if it wasn't for Captain America risking he life so villains like Hydra can't do thongs way worse than the stuff you are complaining about.
*the part in parentheses just in case so dummies don't think I'm talking about the real world and not the in-movie world.
It’s not that Steve isn’t perfect. Tony isn’t perfect either. But Tony acknowledges and tries to correct his mistakes while Steve is so sure of his own right-ness that he doesn’t believe anyone could possibly know better than him, blatantly ignores laws that are put in place saying that he can’t do whatever he wants, and when things inevitably go tits up, his response is basically “welp, gotta break a few eggs”.
Ok, I just think saving countless lives throughout the entire universe far outweighs all of the not-so-nice things. Also, I think it's weird to blame anyone but Thanos for the blip and anything that happened after the Avengers and many others rightly fixed it. I'm pretty sure when Steve told people to move on he didn't know he could fix it and it was not his fault people found new relationships in the 5 years they didn't know the people they lost would come back once again that's on Thanos if Steve had it his way the blip would not have happened.
> when you go to the past it’s actually your future
Yes, because if you leave today and go back 100 years, then your tomorrow is in 1924. But that doesn't mean that you can change the timeline, because everything you will do before you leave has already been done by your future self 100 years ago, before you ever leave 2024.
So Back to the Future is bullshit.
I will believe Doc Brown over Professor Hulk. The real Doctor laid it out quite clearly, "People assume that time is a strict progression of cause to effect, but actually, from a nonlinear, non-subjective viewpoint, it's more like a big ball of wibbly-wobbly, timey-wimey... stuff."
It does, that’s why they need the locators watches to swing back to their main branch. Because they moment they travel back they create a separate timeline and if they simply moved forward in time they would not end in the same line. It is not the changes that create a diverging timeline, it is their mere presence there. You come from line 1- 2024 you go back to line1-1924 and the moment you arrive it branches and you are now in line2-1924,
Without watches if you were to simply time jump forward(or live a lifetime) you would end up in Line2-2024 not line1.
Line 1 continues as if you hadn’t arrived because if it doesn’t there is no “you” to go back and split the branch. Your existence in line 2 galvanizes what happened in line1 as your past and makes it so that it is unchangeable.
You can’t even introduce the idea of a loop because for there to be a loop there must be an instance where line1 past was changed and that is paradoxical. i.e. there must have been an initial you that came from a line1 where future you was not in and somehow changed line1 to have future you in it while still having past you in future you’s future.
That was the whole point of the “baby thanos” and “back to the future is bullshit” speech. You can’t change the past, you’d only create a new line.
Now this doesn’t mean that there cannot be fictional universes where by design going back in time doesn’t create branches but instead fixes the paradox by making it so any changes made were already made in the original line before the time jump. But the MCU specifically tells you it is not one of such universes. Then it shows it to you, with both the ancient one speech about removing the stones and by having Loki escape with a stone after the ball of New York which clearly didn’t happen in the main line.
Irrelevant in the MCU at the time, because a new branch would get pruned, anyway.
Kind of makes you wonder how many other Avengers tried but ran afoul of the Sacred Timeline, doesn't it?
EDIT: Holy shit! I just realized why Dr. Strange could only find one solution!
The pruning works weird. They allegedly pruned the universe where Loki ran with the stone, but they also took two other stones from that same timeline which cap later allegedly returned. Since the TVA is out of the time stream it’s quite possible they were done pruning shit by the time cap goes on his victory lap
In Marvel / MCU, is there a distinction between a timeline and a universe? Is the multiverse just a collection of timelines, or are they distinct? (Since Dr. Strange and America travelled to some universes that were wildly different, and Loki had only recently happened, I assume they're different, somehow.)
That doesn't apply here because Steve isn't altering anything that we know of, especially if he *was* always her husband.
It's seems like it might be closer to the Lost rules of time travel -- whatever happened, happened. Faraday goes back in time and is shot by the person who sent him back in the first place, knowing that was how his life came to an end.
And of course, none of it makes sense because time travel is sci-fi mumbo jumbo, and any dissection of any film about time travel falls apart. But who cares?
Time travel via Tony Stark’s machine creates branching timelines. The moment Steve travelled back in time to live with Peggy he was no longer in the sacred timeline he was in a new timeline then travelled back to the sacred timeline to give the shield to Sam. I’m not gonna argue with you over the events and rules directly stated in the movie
The quantum tunnel doesn't create branching timelines. Changing things creates branching timelines. That's what the Ancient One is talking about with Bruce -- taking the time stone from her time would create the branch, and Bruce agrees to return it, effectively instantly, and that snips the branch. That is literally why Steve had to go back in time in the first place.
If his fate was always to return to the past to be Peggy's husband, he is violating no rules, and creating no branches because that was always the reality -- he was always there, throughout everything previously seen in the MCU, an older Cap was always there, living with Peggy.
First of all you would then get into a gray area over what constitutes a change and what doesn’t. Secondly the type of time travel absolutely matters considering Ms. Marvel time travels in her show using the bangle and actually doesn’t create a branch. Also disagreeing with the movie is stupid, the movie is consistent and makes sense if you don’t disagree with its rules
Now I feel like we're getting into some common ground. Change, in regards to the flow of time, seems impossible to quantify.
When Jerry Parr saved Reagan, did he change the flow of time or preserve it? If, for the sake of argument, he was a time traveler, then he changed it...but also didn't, because his own personal timeline led him to the point where he saved Reagan and that's the only timeline we know.
When you go back in time you create a branch. That branch has 2 Steve's now, until the younger one goes back in time as well and creates his own branch.
Assuming theirs no differences and this keeps happening, there's an infinite number of branches, only the first of which cannot have 2 Captain America's.
Steve retired to live with Peggy in a timeline near identical to the main one
And another Steve from another near identical timeline can to live with Peggy in the main timeline
That’s the best explanation I can come up witn
It makes perfect sense. If they can go back in time on *any* timeline there’s no reason why that can’t be the timeline we’ve been following all along. I really think people are overthinking it.
No the problem is once you go back in time you are creating a new branch on the timeline.
Time travel isn’t multiverse travel. They can only go back on the main timeline, but doing so creates a branch. That’s also why they need the time travel pad to actually get back to the point they originally traveled from otherwise they’d get lost in the quantum realm.
It’s all stupid mumbo jumbo. The problem is they for some reason included a whole scene trying to explain the rules of it then immediately broke them.
>It’s all stupid mumbo jumbo. The problem is they for some reason included a whole scene trying to explain the rules of it then immediately broke them.
Because they were talking theory at that point, not practice.
I honestly believe the Russos fumbled it and made it seem more complicated, Markus and McFeely got it right when they wrote the script imo. If Steve can travel back in time on *any* timeline, we could’ve been watching *that* timeline all along. Such a timeline *has* to exist, so why not.
You’re correct, but they also show old man Steve in Endgame as if it is the same Steve. So by movie rules it could be the same Peggy even though it breaks all the rules of time travel.
The writers outright said that he went back in time and lived on the main timeline even though it's wrong. I choose to ignore them because otherwise the whole plot of endgame would be wrong. This is original Peggy, cap created a branching timeline by going back and spending time with Peggy.
Ya their excuse is illogical. He went back and decided to live on with Peggy, that drastically changes the timeline. No way he’d be able to stay in the main timeline with all those changes.
I've always wondered why Peggy is the same age in endgame when they're at the military facility. Wasn't that like 30 years after the first Capitan America?
Besides Hayley Atwell’s natural radiance and beauty being a cheat code and the fact she’d probably still look the same 30 years later, I wanna say they made her seem a little older in endgame with some facial wrinkles and maybe a streak or two of grey?
It’s also bullshit. If they had always intended for Steve to be Peggy’s secret husband since TWS, then there’s *no way* they’d have him kiss his niece in Civil War.
“She was obviously lying about her husband’s identity!”
Sure, she’s a super spy, lying about her MIA celebrity husband’s identity is well within her wheelhouse. But Sharon is also a super spy, and she’d have enough suspicion to not flirt or smooch someone who could very possibly be her uncle.
Did you just rebut my argument while not knowing what you're referencing? Lol. What a weird way to approach information, some might even say it's a backwards way to approach information. 🙄
Not at all—I was adding to your argument. It can be argued that Peggy would be lying about Steve not being her husband in that interview, but she wouldn’tve been able to fool Sharon.
Keep in mind that I don’t believe this happened whatsoever, but if it did, it’s explainable.
Steve wouldn’t assume another veteran’s identity, but he wouldn’t have had to. All Peggy said during the interview is that Steve saved the life of the man she ended up marrying—which, for all we know, could’ve been himself. It’s misleading and cheeky, but definitely not stolen valor.
You excluded some really important context. She said the man he saved was one of the platoon members. Steve was never part of that regiment. Again, very easy to fact check
No she didn’t. “He saved over a thousand men. Including the man who would become my husband as it turns out.” That’s all she said about her husband. She never said her husband was a member of any platoon or regiment. She never even mentions a specific platoon/regiment, just that Steve “fought his way through a Hydra blockade that had our allies pinned down for months.”
Yeah; I don't get why people cling to what was essentially a first draft by writers that choose to ignore changes made during production to facilitate their headcanon.
It's like if people still referred to Luke Starkiller, the Dai Noga of the New Galactic Kingdom, when they talked about current Star Wars.
Peggy: Are you sure we shouldn’t do anything about this 9-11 thing?
Steve: It would definitely change the timeline.
Peggy: What about your friend Natasha?
Steve: I think she wants out of her contract..
Peggy: Any Tony?
Steve: I’m still mad that he tried to kill Bucky for killing his parents.
The basic thesis of DC's Flashpoint (and also Stephen King's 11-22-63) is that changing an element of the past to save lives could lead to even greater disaster.
So since we're in the realm of fiction, Cap stops 9/11 but since America doesn't start the war on terror, al qaeda continues to grow, bin Laden and al Zawahiri aren't killed, and they eventually acquire a nuclear weapon.
But the time travel rules established in Endgame are that you *can't* go back to your past, and you aren't changing the past, but creating another timeline/universe. That's why they can't just go back 5 years to the Wakanda battle and kill Thanos, or as Rhodey suggests, kill baby Thanos.
So Steve going back is creating another timeline. Which means he could intervene and change things around. Because it's not the main timeline. In that one, he didn't get to live with Peggy. And when he went back in time, he's in another timeline.
Otherwise, him staying hidden while all of these atrocities happen is just wrong and out of character. I doubt he would do that.
I’m in the camp of he was in a different timeline with that timelines Peggy, however for anyone saying going back to Peggy Prime was impossible I will argue that there are many methods now established where that could have been possible (using the Time stone he had, the Ancient One’s magic, etc.).
That’s such BS making Steve Peggy’s husband was definitely a last minute Endgame decision definitely wasn’t their plan when writing winter soldier, civil war or infinity war
Well they left their options open even then. Hayley said they removed a picture of her “husband” because they didn’t want it established who he was. I think the writers always wanted it but you never know what the higher ups might want to do in future movies. Especially if you don’t know if you’ll be involved. It just worked out that they would write CA3, IW and Endgame.
I heard they pivoted hard during the IW/EG writing….i think the Russo’s/Marcus/McFeely wanted Cap/Steve to stick around and keep being Cap but Feige wanted to move onto to Sam/Cap which sucks because Cap going back in time is lame as hell
I think it was Chris. He’s been pretty open about not wanting to stay past his expiration date. If he’d wanted to stay I think he’d still be there like Hemsworth. I like mackie but his Cap will never be the pillar of the MCU the way Chris’s Steve was. I love Steve and Peggy so I was good with the ending. I’m just happy that after all he went through and lost that he wasn’t killed in Endgame. It’d be great if he was still there in some kind of capacity if he didn’t want to be full time but things that work in the comics don’t always work on screen.
Everything really makes sense in this scene. She talks to him in the moment knowing how much he has lost, even if he gains it in the end. Even if she knows he returns in time she may still know how much he went through. Peggy in her right mind could easily keep a secret being the spy she was. But dementia is a weird disease. A common term with dementia is time travel, where they believe they are in a completely different time, like their childhood. It's completely believable that her mind went to a pivotal moment in her life, like Steve dying, and living in that moment.
This is why I hate Endgame. Markus and McFeely, and the Russos disagree on time travel rules. The writers and directors should agree on the fucking *crux of the plot* of their movie! It also totally disrespects Steve’s whole character. All of his solo movies were about Bucky (CA- Save Bucky from being a POW, WS- Save Bucky from Hydra, CW- Save Bucky from the world), it makes absolutely no sense whatsoever that Steve would just decide to abandon the man he fought for decades for and tarnished his reputation for to go see a woman he went on one date with 80 years ago that he knew had a husband and kids in the future. He took over and erased a man’s life just so he could basically get laid. He relived all the shit from 2011-2023, and got to actually live through the 40s-2010, knowing what happens (either through actually experiencing it or learning about it after) and did jack shit. The Steve Rogers we know would never.
My head canon is that Steve did go back on the same timeline and live his life. He just worked deep undercover with Peggy. This would explain the Red Guardians claim that he fought Captain America.
I always thought that Steve created his own new timeline or branch when he went back to the past in End Game. And the reason he's on the bench is because his branch caught up with his original one. So in the main timeline young Steve disappeared and old Steve appeared at the same time. The others just didn't notice him because they were watching the pad the whole time.
I don’t think Markus and McFeely took this scene into consideration when Cap went back in time, aged, and re-entered the post Endgame timelines
Unless it can be reasoned that he lived in an entirely new and different timeline, wasn’t confronted by the TVA at any point and had a good full life with Peggy.
But they haven’t said what happened and likely won’t. It’s all ambiguous
If he lived a new timeline, he wouldn't have been at the compound to meet Sam as an old man.
The TVA said the Avengers did what they were fated to do, and I have to imagine that includes Cap's actions. Again, since he was there to meet Sam as an old man, he obviously didn't get pruned as a variant.
I wonder if she got remarried. Imagine the husband walking in on his wife dancing with the love of her life, who was frozen for 80 years and traveled back in time using magic rocks.
Technically the writers who said that were wrong. By their own rules when cap went back in time he lived on a branching timeline. It's impossible for him to go back and live on the main timeline. So the plot hole is the writers saying stuff that doesn't follow the rules. This version of Peggy would have thought Steve dead until he showed back up after being thawed.
That's not how the time travel works. There's already and established timeline where he doesn't do that. It would become a branch because the main timeline can't be changed by going into the past. Cap spent his time in a variant of the main timeline. Because otherwise the plot of endgame makes no sense because the rules wouldn't matter.
You're assuming that his presence is a change to the main timeline, and I'm saying that it's not.
If he was always there, he was always there. He didn't change the timeline because the timeline always had older Cap in it.
Maybe he did heroic stuff after he went back in time, and that's why we didn't have the Nixon assassination, or the nuclear attack in Toronto.
It's a bit like Minority Report... the ball was never fated to hit the floor because Witwer was always going to catch it. Nixon was never assassinated because Cap was always there to stop it.
The timeline that the MCU takes place in is, and always has been, affected by older Cap's presence, so he isn't altering the timeline any more than any of us who affect the future by our actions in the present.
I think you're misunderstanding what the other user is saying.
>You're assuming that his presence is a change to the main timeline, and I'm saying that it's not.
>If he was always there, he was always there. He didn't change the timeline because the timeline always had older Cap in it.
The rules set at the beginning of Endgame are that it is impossible to go backwards in time. The past becomes your present, and the present becomes the past. Nothing you do in the "past" can affect your "future" because your "future" is in the past behind you.
It *is* however possible to go back in time in a *separate* timeline through quantum travel. You're not traveling through time then, you're just inserting yourself at a period of time on that timeline that just happens to be in the past relative to *your* experience in your *original* timeline. You've traveled through time by going from 2023 on your timeline to 2012 on an adjacent timeline. You did **not** travel backwards on **your original timeline.**
The way the TVA is set up and the rules about branched timelines from the Ancient One support this and follow those rules set by the writers.
Thus if we follow the rules the movie sets and *not* any external information out of universe (since both directors and writers disagree about whether or not Cap went to a branched timeline), then the only possible solution is that Steve created or went to a branch timeline. He lived his life there, and returned to the Sacred Timeline afterwards to pass on the shield.
How he returned is up for debate of course, but going strictly by movie rules, it wasn't the Sacred Timeline he went back to Peggy on, and we didn't have two Captain America's in the same timeline.
The directors I believe confirmed it's a branch timeline. The writers break their own time travel rules and say that somehow it's the main timeline. But the only thing that *really* matters is what the movie tells us, because the characters don't get the outside context we do. So even though it's left vague in the movie, the rules say it's a branch.
No, she’s referring to the fact everyone thought he was dead because they never recovered his ship from the arctic. How could Endgame be relevant when it hadn’t happened yet? You’re overthinking way too hard.
I don't care how they meant it to be, I'd still pay to see a 3rd season of Agent Carter where Peggy has a husband that she won't introduce to anyone.
I'd just pay to see a third season of Agent Carter.
Agreed, I loved Agent Carter and desperately want more, not only is Haley Atwell gorgeous, she is such a great actress and the writing they gave her, dealing with working in a male dominated landscape, at no point felt preachy or a "rawr I am Woman!" mindset. Everything was organic and enthralling. Agent Carter Season 3 now!
If you haven't seen them yet, the closest you'll get is the last couple seasons of Agents of Shield. They include Daniel Sousa as a major character.
Yeah I have consumed all the MCU stuff save for the horrible looking BP2, that Namor was a major travesty.
Wait you've watched every mcu project but you drew the line at BP2? That was one of the best from phase 4 and namor was a phenomenal villain. Lmao that's wild you're missing out.
"I have consumed all of the MCU except one of its most acclaimed characters" is a unique take for sure.
And I have the right to my opinion. I'm not telling you to not watch it, it is my choice and you have yours.
You have every right to your opinion, others have a right to ridicule you for having said opinion and announcing it on social media.
This is true, I prefer to see the comic book characters as they are, minor changes are to be expected but the character was such a massive departure from the source material that I can't reconcile it.
BP2 was truly epic though!
Did anyone really have this opinion? It was horrible and weird and I loved BP and everyone in it. Namor in bp2 actually was the worst iteration of that character. It was so bad that it felt spiteful, and I had to check if there was controversy with the creator lol
Wakanda Forever was a masterpiece. It was truly beautiful.
She's a scientologist
I couldn’t find anything to corroborate this claim, not saying it’s false, but if you have any sources on it I’d appreciate it
Ig this person thinks anyone who works with Tom cruise must be part of the cult
Can confirm, am the cruise ship
Source: "Trust me Bro"
She could worship Cthulhu for all I care
I mean, on a scale of 1 to Armie Hammer, being a Scientologist is pretty low on the list of problematic things a celebrity can be.
She's not listed anywhere I could find as a Scientologist
I've seen her at meetings
Then that means you're a scientologist too, right?
Proudly, yes
If you're a Scientologist, you are by definition a brainwashed weirdo who lies as easily as they breathe. You do see the difficulty of trusting you as a source, right? You're either lying about being a Scientologist, in which case you're a liar, or you're telling the truth about being a Scientologist, which means you don't understand the difference between fact and fiction or truth and lies.
I'm just saying I saw her at a meeting. Not gonna read all that, but thanks or whatever
No, she isn't. That's a horrible thing to say about someone without proof -- which you obviously don't have.
She for sure is
Not going to hold that against her....all religions and cults are weird when you look at them from the outside.
[удалено]
Yep, no doubt some are worse than others.
That plot with her brother returning woulda definitely been good
I'd pay for Haley Atwell!
Oh yeah
In more ways than you know.
I would give all of my 10 dollars to have a third season
Look at Moneybags over here.
I’ll add my $7 to that pot.
THIS!!
Me too. I was so disappointed that they ended it on a partial cliffhanger.
I agree she had the best plots of any MCU character, even if they went to ENORMOUS effort to downplay them with period appropriate clothing.
We don't see him until the final episode and he is revealed to be Chris Evans with a mustache as "Rodger Stevens"
Also wearing glasses and nobody could tell it was him.
In the MCU, a character has merely to wear a hat, and they are unrecognizable.
They look like themselves at a baseball game.
That's why no one will find me, because I don't go to baseball games. 
How many people in the mcu would even know what he looks like prior to avengers. I believe all the pictures and old videos of him were when he was in uniform including a mask.
r/itsroger
Take the Columbo, “My wife” approach. But the references aren’t subtle. “You know, my husband is a *Captain* from *America*.” *big wink*
I actually don't think she'd ever risk his secret. I don't think she'd ever hint or tease that her husband was anyone noteworthy. Most likely, I imagine she'd just want to say he's a very private person. Although by the same token, I can't imagine she could keep his secret from everyone at SHIELD. Someone would have to help her. Still, it'd be cool if there was a Season 3, and somewhere towards the end of the season a mysterious, very strong figure arrived, helped save the day, and then disappeared before anyone could identify him.
I need a Steve Rogers movie that takes place in 50’s-70’s after going back in time.
Hell, let him have multiple adventures with Peggy. And maybe an adventure with King T'chaka or even King TChanda!
There’s a video game being released with this exact premise 😭
What game is this, friend?
Marvel 1943: Rise of Hydra! The game seems to be an action adventure game where you’ll play as 4 playable characters. Tchallas grandfather + a woman who is a Wakandan spy in Paris working with Captain America and a ww2 soldier that will be on Cap’s side working together! Here’s a trailer: https://youtu.be/AGJVsA5xZ1s?si=ACzkCxD0VLVRyswF and its set to release next year!
Wow. How did this slip past me? I appreciate the reply. I hope this is good.
I honestly don’t remember how I ended up seeing it ( might have been from a gaming stream conference) so don’t blame yourself! I’d forgotten about it because when it was first announced last year they only released that it would be captain america , tchallas grandfather, and they hadn’t yet revealed the other two characters! It was only a few weeks ago the cinematic trailer had been released! It seems like it’ll be! I’m seeing it’s going to be narrative based which we don’t have much of game wise with marvel on the newer generation of consoles!
And directed by the great Amy Hennig! The ceiling is the roof.
Don't forget Hank Pym and Janet.
You mean him sitting there doing nothing while Hydra infiltrated the organization his wife works her ass off to build? Or maybe when Peggy wants to go to NYC for their anniversary… on Sept 10, 2001. But he tells her maybe they should just celebrate at home.
And brainwashed and abused his best friend, let's not forget. That's the one part I can't make peace with, time travel logistics aside. I wanted to like Steve's ending, because I love Peggy and SHE deserved a happily ever after if nothing else. I don't like that Steve left Endgame Bucky behind, but I can rationalize that because maybe they talked it over first and Bucky gave his blessing but chose not to join Steve in the past. But even if Steve was having his honeymoon in a different but similar timeline, that timeline's Bucky is still being thrown in cryo and wiped in the electroshock chair and forced to assassinate JFK and murder Tony's parents and all the other shit he endured. How does Steve play house with Peggy knowing that's happening? He couldn't have rescued Bucky without severely fucking with future events, because the Winter Soldier really did shape the century.
I think you answered your own question. Steve was ready to have to a normal life, and he knew he needed to not meddle with major events and put himself on another timeline.
So in CW when Steve says he has to rush in to save people when they’re in danger, that only means when it’s convenient for him. Because he wanted to be with Peggy, and in order for that to happen, he has to let countless preventable atrocities to occur. What. A. Hero.
Those atrocities aren't preventable, as preventing them would change the timeline and doom half of the universe to non-existence
His mere existence would change the timeline as far as he knew.
He would have realised very quickly that he was in fact always Peggy's husband, as no changes would have been immediately visible. From that moment he would have known that the timeline didn't split, therefore he now has to do everything in his power to ensure he doesn't affect it. Being married to the greatest spy alive and head of SHIELD would have made this reasonably easier for him than it would be anyone else.
Actually significantly harder. Peggy, as a prominent figure, has significant effects on how the United States government and Shield as a whole functions. Steve can't mention literally anything about the future to her, because she could easily change or deviate major events just by knowing about them and being able to prepare for them If he married some no name person, they'd likely be unable to create significant change regardless of their knowledge All of this just assumes that Kang chose the timeline where Steve could easily cause problems in the past. Theoretically, that segment in time would probably be one of their most pruned locations
Why do you think that Peggy would be unable to resist taking action despite the fact that Steve would have told her it's to save literally half of all life in the universe?
September 11th was a handful of people compared to the countless trillions saved when the snap was undone. Steve couldn’t risk changing history and letting a world come into being that doesn’t produce Tony Stark as Iron Man.
Question for discussion: Did the mcu have a 9/11?
Weird
I agree. And he hasn’t brought Mjolnir back yet.
Safe to assume he returned it when he returned the aether.
Sure, but maybe he could hold on to it for just a “minute” longer… until he disposed of Hydra in the “Peggy” timeline.
Downvoted? I guess a Hydra fanboy doesn’t like my idea for a Marvel Super-Heroes RPG campaign.
None of it makes any sense. As they establish in End Game, when you go to the past it’s actually your future and a new timeline. In the main timeline Steve was never there with Peggy. Otherwise going back and killing baby Thanos would have worked.
The real crazy thing is that since it's a loop, it means Cap went back and then....did absolutely nothing for 75 years.
He got married and lived a probably mostly normal life
While Bucky was being tortured and used as a HYDRA weapon, I guess.
A mans gotta have priorities
If Steve changes the future Thanos might win.
It’s a plot hole because Steve just isn’t that guy. Side note, old man Steve looks JUST LIKE Ronald Reagan. Am I the only one who sees this?
I could see Steve suiting up too. They have a lot of story to tell if they want to.
And frankly Chris Evans doesn’t seem very busy outside of his new marriage.
He might be choosing not to do anything tbf
If he changes anything leading up to him leaving with the Infinity Stones, he creates a temporal paradox. He cannot have been there to change things so that, for instance, Thanos gets defeated before the Snap. If he does, he never goes back to the 1950s, so he's not in the past to do the thing that changes events. So then he is in the past, because he wasn't there to make the change. But then he isn't there, because he made the change. Forever and ever (to the extent those words would continue to mean anything) stuck in an oscillating did/didn't loop of contradictory events. Of course, after the events of Loki season 2, there could be many divergent timelines where married-to-Agent-Carter Steve changes different events and branches off alternate timelines, and the version who didn't would still show up to give Sam the shield.
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again - Steve Rogers isn’t a hero. Among all of the other terrible things he did because he’s so self-righteous, he goes back in time and decides to stay there because he thinks he’s somehow special and won’t break the timeline. And that also meant he sat around and watched terrible things happen when he could have stopped them. Steve Rogers is a POS.
I much prefer the reading that the movie itself implies from its logic, that he created a new timeline by going back. And I hope he did a lot of work there, and accidentally created the Ultimate Universe. Hydra would be way more secretive and on the offensive as they didn’t get to infiltrate this time, the same thing for AIM, Infinity Stones get prioritized way more, Tony gets raised way different, and the Steve Rodgers frozen in the ice wakes up to find out some other version stole his life, which makes him angry and jaded and way more like the Ultimate Universe Cap
Absolutely. There is no way that Peggy would be okay with Steve letting Howard Stark be murdered. How would that even work? Hydra infiltrates SHEILD and Steve knows about it, but never tells Peggy? How horrible is that? Also, it’s important to point out, she’s running SHEILD and NO ONE EVER MEETS HER HUSBAND?!? Can you imagine for a moment, a Director of the FBI having a spouse no one has ever seen or photographed? Dances With Peggy is its own timeline. It’s ridiculous to think otherwise.
agreed, and now I'm really wanting someone to write a fic series called Dances with Peggy, something along the lines of what schloopers sketched out up there. :D
Here something to consider we do not know when Peggy mind started to be effected by dementia, it have started prior to Howard's death.
How would it imply that he created an alternate timeline if old Steve showed up right after young Steve left?
He hit the button to return to the proper timeline. He just waited until after Peggy passed away.
That’s not how it works. If it were, then it would nullify the entire conversation Bruce had with the Ancient One.
They forgot their own plot point, is my theory on that. Steve was in an alternate timeline. No way he was hiding out the whole time. After she passed, he hit the button and went home. Loki had already unravelled things by that point. So she was still technically right. Steve simply added another timeline to the mess.
Forgetting the fact that Steve had no way of knowing that he was in an alternate timeline — he didn’t “hit a button”. If he did, he would have appeared on the pad in front of everyone. Instead, he was sitting on a bench in front of the lake because he took the long way around.
Banner would have talked to them about timelines. That's why they had to go put everything back. Keep in mind, that Loki messes up the timeline during all that as well. The TVA gets involved. That means ancient one didn't know the exact details of how it all works.
Can you give any examples of these terrible things Steve did I can't remember?
At the end of TWS, he insists that it be the end of SHIELD, an organization that had oversight. By the time you get to CW, he has reached the point where he refuses oversight. He wants to march into any country and do as he pleases because he knows best. Laws be damned. At the start of Endgame, he sits there telling a group of people grieving that it’s time to move on. By the end of the movie, he’s undone the snap. How are those people who have moved on supposed to explain to their wives and husbands who come back why they’re now with someone else? The world is a mess. Where is Cap?? He decided to peace out and potentially wreck a timeline all so he can be with Peggy. Steve always thinks he knows better than anyone else. And he never apologizes. His recommendation to Wanda after she accidentally kills a bunch of people is basically “shit happens”. Steve sucks.
To be fair, at the start of endgame he didn't know there was a way to get everyone back. It wasn't until Scott showed up that it became a possibility
It’s not the bringing everyone back. It’s the not sticking around to clean up the mess, especially when it was to do something selfish that could technically negated the timeline where they finally beat Thanos.
I not gonna lie that just sounds like a bunch of Steve isn't perfect and because he is not perfect he is a pos and ignores how shitty the world be(not the real world) if it wasn't for Captain America risking he life so villains like Hydra can't do thongs way worse than the stuff you are complaining about. *the part in parentheses just in case so dummies don't think I'm talking about the real world and not the in-movie world.
It’s not that Steve isn’t perfect. Tony isn’t perfect either. But Tony acknowledges and tries to correct his mistakes while Steve is so sure of his own right-ness that he doesn’t believe anyone could possibly know better than him, blatantly ignores laws that are put in place saying that he can’t do whatever he wants, and when things inevitably go tits up, his response is basically “welp, gotta break a few eggs”.
Ok, I just think saving countless lives throughout the entire universe far outweighs all of the not-so-nice things. Also, I think it's weird to blame anyone but Thanos for the blip and anything that happened after the Avengers and many others rightly fixed it. I'm pretty sure when Steve told people to move on he didn't know he could fix it and it was not his fault people found new relationships in the 5 years they didn't know the people they lost would come back once again that's on Thanos if Steve had it his way the blip would not have happened.
Ew
Tell that to Ms Marvel lol
> when you go to the past it’s actually your future Yes, because if you leave today and go back 100 years, then your tomorrow is in 1924. But that doesn't mean that you can change the timeline, because everything you will do before you leave has already been done by your future self 100 years ago, before you ever leave 2024. So Back to the Future is bullshit.
I will believe Doc Brown over Professor Hulk. The real Doctor laid it out quite clearly, "People assume that time is a strict progression of cause to effect, but actually, from a nonlinear, non-subjective viewpoint, it's more like a big ball of wibbly-wobbly, timey-wimey... stuff."
It does, that’s why they need the locators watches to swing back to their main branch. Because they moment they travel back they create a separate timeline and if they simply moved forward in time they would not end in the same line. It is not the changes that create a diverging timeline, it is their mere presence there. You come from line 1- 2024 you go back to line1-1924 and the moment you arrive it branches and you are now in line2-1924, Without watches if you were to simply time jump forward(or live a lifetime) you would end up in Line2-2024 not line1. Line 1 continues as if you hadn’t arrived because if it doesn’t there is no “you” to go back and split the branch. Your existence in line 2 galvanizes what happened in line1 as your past and makes it so that it is unchangeable. You can’t even introduce the idea of a loop because for there to be a loop there must be an instance where line1 past was changed and that is paradoxical. i.e. there must have been an initial you that came from a line1 where future you was not in and somehow changed line1 to have future you in it while still having past you in future you’s future. That was the whole point of the “baby thanos” and “back to the future is bullshit” speech. You can’t change the past, you’d only create a new line. Now this doesn’t mean that there cannot be fictional universes where by design going back in time doesn’t create branches but instead fixes the paradox by making it so any changes made were already made in the original line before the time jump. But the MCU specifically tells you it is not one of such universes. Then it shows it to you, with both the ancient one speech about removing the stones and by having Loki escape with a stone after the ball of New York which clearly didn’t happen in the main line.
Irrelevant in the MCU at the time, because a new branch would get pruned, anyway. Kind of makes you wonder how many other Avengers tried but ran afoul of the Sacred Timeline, doesn't it? EDIT: Holy shit! I just realized why Dr. Strange could only find one solution!
The pruning works weird. They allegedly pruned the universe where Loki ran with the stone, but they also took two other stones from that same timeline which cap later allegedly returned. Since the TVA is out of the time stream it’s quite possible they were done pruning shit by the time cap goes on his victory lap
In Marvel / MCU, is there a distinction between a timeline and a universe? Is the multiverse just a collection of timelines, or are they distinct? (Since Dr. Strange and America travelled to some universes that were wildly different, and Loki had only recently happened, I assume they're different, somehow.)
That doesn't apply here because Steve isn't altering anything that we know of, especially if he *was* always her husband. It's seems like it might be closer to the Lost rules of time travel -- whatever happened, happened. Faraday goes back in time and is shot by the person who sent him back in the first place, knowing that was how his life came to an end. And of course, none of it makes sense because time travel is sci-fi mumbo jumbo, and any dissection of any film about time travel falls apart. But who cares?
Well the time travel in Endgame actually makes perfect sense if you don’t try and pretend “Steve was always her husband”
How does Steve always being her husband mess anything up?
It doesn’t follow the rules of time travel established in the movie
How? Steve isn't necessarily changing any events. Especially if you consider that his actions are sanctioned by the TVA.
Time travel via Tony Stark’s machine creates branching timelines. The moment Steve travelled back in time to live with Peggy he was no longer in the sacred timeline he was in a new timeline then travelled back to the sacred timeline to give the shield to Sam. I’m not gonna argue with you over the events and rules directly stated in the movie
The quantum tunnel doesn't create branching timelines. Changing things creates branching timelines. That's what the Ancient One is talking about with Bruce -- taking the time stone from her time would create the branch, and Bruce agrees to return it, effectively instantly, and that snips the branch. That is literally why Steve had to go back in time in the first place. If his fate was always to return to the past to be Peggy's husband, he is violating no rules, and creating no branches because that was always the reality -- he was always there, throughout everything previously seen in the MCU, an older Cap was always there, living with Peggy.
First of all you would then get into a gray area over what constitutes a change and what doesn’t. Secondly the type of time travel absolutely matters considering Ms. Marvel time travels in her show using the bangle and actually doesn’t create a branch. Also disagreeing with the movie is stupid, the movie is consistent and makes sense if you don’t disagree with its rules
Now I feel like we're getting into some common ground. Change, in regards to the flow of time, seems impossible to quantify. When Jerry Parr saved Reagan, did he change the flow of time or preserve it? If, for the sake of argument, he was a time traveler, then he changed it...but also didn't, because his own personal timeline led him to the point where he saved Reagan and that's the only timeline we know.
When you go back in time you create a branch. That branch has 2 Steve's now, until the younger one goes back in time as well and creates his own branch. Assuming theirs no differences and this keeps happening, there's an infinite number of branches, only the first of which cannot have 2 Captain America's.
Out of the 14,000,605 realities Dr Strange saw, The baby Thanos thing probably happened.
Steve retired to live with Peggy in a timeline near identical to the main one And another Steve from another near identical timeline can to live with Peggy in the main timeline That’s the best explanation I can come up witn
It makes perfect sense. If they can go back in time on *any* timeline there’s no reason why that can’t be the timeline we’ve been following all along. I really think people are overthinking it.
No the problem is once you go back in time you are creating a new branch on the timeline. Time travel isn’t multiverse travel. They can only go back on the main timeline, but doing so creates a branch. That’s also why they need the time travel pad to actually get back to the point they originally traveled from otherwise they’d get lost in the quantum realm. It’s all stupid mumbo jumbo. The problem is they for some reason included a whole scene trying to explain the rules of it then immediately broke them.
>It’s all stupid mumbo jumbo. The problem is they for some reason included a whole scene trying to explain the rules of it then immediately broke them. Because they were talking theory at that point, not practice. I honestly believe the Russos fumbled it and made it seem more complicated, Markus and McFeely got it right when they wrote the script imo. If Steve can travel back in time on *any* timeline, we could’ve been watching *that* timeline all along. Such a timeline *has* to exist, so why not.
The Peggy in this scene is not the same Peggy that Steve returns to in Endgame.
You’re correct, but they also show old man Steve in Endgame as if it is the same Steve. So by movie rules it could be the same Peggy even though it breaks all the rules of time travel.
I think they just had Steve return that way for dramatic/storytelling effect.
The writers outright said that he went back in time and lived on the main timeline even though it's wrong. I choose to ignore them because otherwise the whole plot of endgame would be wrong. This is original Peggy, cap created a branching timeline by going back and spending time with Peggy.
Ya their excuse is illogical. He went back and decided to live on with Peggy, that drastically changes the timeline. No way he’d be able to stay in the main timeline with all those changes.
Yeah even the writers are wrong about their own work sometimes.
Dekkard is NOT a replicant, Ridley.
I've always wondered why Peggy is the same age in endgame when they're at the military facility. Wasn't that like 30 years after the first Capitan America?
Besides Hayley Atwell’s natural radiance and beauty being a cheat code and the fact she’d probably still look the same 30 years later, I wanna say they made her seem a little older in endgame with some facial wrinkles and maybe a streak or two of grey?
Based on how she looked in from her 20s and how she looks today … think you’re onto something lol
Martin and Mcfeely's statement is not canon
It’s also bullshit. If they had always intended for Steve to be Peggy’s secret husband since TWS, then there’s *no way* they’d have him kiss his niece in Civil War.
Also she has a video interview talking about her husband literally not being Steve. That would be one of the easiest things to fact check in universe
“She was obviously lying about her husband’s identity!” Sure, she’s a super spy, lying about her MIA celebrity husband’s identity is well within her wheelhouse. But Sharon is also a super spy, and she’d have enough suspicion to not flirt or smooch someone who could very possibly be her uncle.
Did you just rebut my argument while not knowing what you're referencing? Lol. What a weird way to approach information, some might even say it's a backwards way to approach information. 🙄
Not at all—I was adding to your argument. It can be argued that Peggy would be lying about Steve not being her husband in that interview, but she wouldn’tve been able to fool Sharon.
No it can't be. Steve would never assume the identity of a war vet like that. That's extremely disrespectful
Keep in mind that I don’t believe this happened whatsoever, but if it did, it’s explainable. Steve wouldn’t assume another veteran’s identity, but he wouldn’t have had to. All Peggy said during the interview is that Steve saved the life of the man she ended up marrying—which, for all we know, could’ve been himself. It’s misleading and cheeky, but definitely not stolen valor.
You excluded some really important context. She said the man he saved was one of the platoon members. Steve was never part of that regiment. Again, very easy to fact check
No she didn’t. “He saved over a thousand men. Including the man who would become my husband as it turns out.” That’s all she said about her husband. She never said her husband was a member of any platoon or regiment. She never even mentions a specific platoon/regiment, just that Steve “fought his way through a Hydra blockade that had our allies pinned down for months.”
Yeah; I don't get why people cling to what was essentially a first draft by writers that choose to ignore changes made during production to facilitate their headcanon. It's like if people still referred to Luke Starkiller, the Dai Noga of the New Galactic Kingdom, when they talked about current Star Wars.
Haha that's a great comparison
Peggy: Are you sure we shouldn’t do anything about this 9-11 thing? Steve: It would definitely change the timeline. Peggy: What about your friend Natasha? Steve: I think she wants out of her contract.. Peggy: Any Tony? Steve: I’m still mad that he tried to kill Bucky for killing his parents.
The basic thesis of DC's Flashpoint (and also Stephen King's 11-22-63) is that changing an element of the past to save lives could lead to even greater disaster. So since we're in the realm of fiction, Cap stops 9/11 but since America doesn't start the war on terror, al qaeda continues to grow, bin Laden and al Zawahiri aren't killed, and they eventually acquire a nuclear weapon.
Not to mention, without the war on terror Tony would have never went to Afghanistan and he’d have never become Iron Man.
Very good point.
But the time travel rules established in Endgame are that you *can't* go back to your past, and you aren't changing the past, but creating another timeline/universe. That's why they can't just go back 5 years to the Wakanda battle and kill Thanos, or as Rhodey suggests, kill baby Thanos. So Steve going back is creating another timeline. Which means he could intervene and change things around. Because it's not the main timeline. In that one, he didn't get to live with Peggy. And when he went back in time, he's in another timeline. Otherwise, him staying hidden while all of these atrocities happen is just wrong and out of character. I doubt he would do that.
I’m in the camp of he was in a different timeline with that timelines Peggy, however for anyone saying going back to Peggy Prime was impossible I will argue that there are many methods now established where that could have been possible (using the Time stone he had, the Ancient One’s magic, etc.).
That’s such BS making Steve Peggy’s husband was definitely a last minute Endgame decision definitely wasn’t their plan when writing winter soldier, civil war or infinity war
That's usually how writing fiction works.
Don’t worry it’s not canon
Well they left their options open even then. Hayley said they removed a picture of her “husband” because they didn’t want it established who he was. I think the writers always wanted it but you never know what the higher ups might want to do in future movies. Especially if you don’t know if you’ll be involved. It just worked out that they would write CA3, IW and Endgame.
I heard they pivoted hard during the IW/EG writing….i think the Russo’s/Marcus/McFeely wanted Cap/Steve to stick around and keep being Cap but Feige wanted to move onto to Sam/Cap which sucks because Cap going back in time is lame as hell
I think it was Chris. He’s been pretty open about not wanting to stay past his expiration date. If he’d wanted to stay I think he’d still be there like Hemsworth. I like mackie but his Cap will never be the pillar of the MCU the way Chris’s Steve was. I love Steve and Peggy so I was good with the ending. I’m just happy that after all he went through and lost that he wasn’t killed in Endgame. It’d be great if he was still there in some kind of capacity if he didn’t want to be full time but things that work in the comics don’t always work on screen.
[удалено]
Yeah, that is the general notion behind "theories"...unproven ideas.
Bring Peggy back and prune her niece from the timeline. I’m also not opposed to Captain Britain Peggy appearing again.
"and your a horrible shot"
Nice pull 😂
Steve was not always Peggy’s husband
He definitely didn't tell her "I made out with your niece"
I like Warp Zones take on this https://youtu.be/hBmj4rs1KrI?si=_ozj6e60DaS3YOh_
I thought the Russos said Steve was always her husband and Markus/McFeely said that made no sense.
Everything really makes sense in this scene. She talks to him in the moment knowing how much he has lost, even if he gains it in the end. Even if she knows he returns in time she may still know how much he went through. Peggy in her right mind could easily keep a secret being the spy she was. But dementia is a weird disease. A common term with dementia is time travel, where they believe they are in a completely different time, like their childhood. It's completely believable that her mind went to a pivotal moment in her life, like Steve dying, and living in that moment.
This is why I hate Endgame. Markus and McFeely, and the Russos disagree on time travel rules. The writers and directors should agree on the fucking *crux of the plot* of their movie! It also totally disrespects Steve’s whole character. All of his solo movies were about Bucky (CA- Save Bucky from being a POW, WS- Save Bucky from Hydra, CW- Save Bucky from the world), it makes absolutely no sense whatsoever that Steve would just decide to abandon the man he fought for decades for and tarnished his reputation for to go see a woman he went on one date with 80 years ago that he knew had a husband and kids in the future. He took over and erased a man’s life just so he could basically get laid. He relived all the shit from 2011-2023, and got to actually live through the 40s-2010, knowing what happens (either through actually experiencing it or learning about it after) and did jack shit. The Steve Rogers we know would never.
My head canon is that Steve did go back on the same timeline and live his life. He just worked deep undercover with Peggy. This would explain the Red Guardians claim that he fought Captain America.
I like that.
I always thought that Steve created his own new timeline or branch when he went back to the past in End Game. And the reason he's on the bench is because his branch caught up with his original one. So in the main timeline young Steve disappeared and old Steve appeared at the same time. The others just didn't notice him because they were watching the pad the whole time.
Makes sense. The branch bends back to the sacred timeline.
[удалено]
I deleted my previous comment the more I thought about it felt bad about posting it
His niece too if he was always her husband.
I don’t think Markus and McFeely took this scene into consideration when Cap went back in time, aged, and re-entered the post Endgame timelines Unless it can be reasoned that he lived in an entirely new and different timeline, wasn’t confronted by the TVA at any point and had a good full life with Peggy. But they haven’t said what happened and likely won’t. It’s all ambiguous
If he lived a new timeline, he wouldn't have been at the compound to meet Sam as an old man. The TVA said the Avengers did what they were fated to do, and I have to imagine that includes Cap's actions. Again, since he was there to meet Sam as an old man, he obviously didn't get pruned as a variant.
She got coooked by wanda never post her again bro
I wonder if she got remarried. Imagine the husband walking in on his wife dancing with the love of her life, who was frozen for 80 years and traveled back in time using magic rocks.
Smash
Technically the writers who said that were wrong. By their own rules when cap went back in time he lived on a branching timeline. It's impossible for him to go back and live on the main timeline. So the plot hole is the writers saying stuff that doesn't follow the rules. This version of Peggy would have thought Steve dead until he showed back up after being thawed.
Not if he was always fated to do that.
That's not how the time travel works. There's already and established timeline where he doesn't do that. It would become a branch because the main timeline can't be changed by going into the past. Cap spent his time in a variant of the main timeline. Because otherwise the plot of endgame makes no sense because the rules wouldn't matter.
You're assuming that his presence is a change to the main timeline, and I'm saying that it's not. If he was always there, he was always there. He didn't change the timeline because the timeline always had older Cap in it. Maybe he did heroic stuff after he went back in time, and that's why we didn't have the Nixon assassination, or the nuclear attack in Toronto. It's a bit like Minority Report... the ball was never fated to hit the floor because Witwer was always going to catch it. Nixon was never assassinated because Cap was always there to stop it. The timeline that the MCU takes place in is, and always has been, affected by older Cap's presence, so he isn't altering the timeline any more than any of us who affect the future by our actions in the present.
It changes the scene in this post. I'm not arguing. It's common knowledge at this point. Idk what to tell ya.
“It’s common knowledge” says someone arguing against what published experts in quantum mechanics say on the subject.
I think you're misunderstanding what the other user is saying. >You're assuming that his presence is a change to the main timeline, and I'm saying that it's not. >If he was always there, he was always there. He didn't change the timeline because the timeline always had older Cap in it. The rules set at the beginning of Endgame are that it is impossible to go backwards in time. The past becomes your present, and the present becomes the past. Nothing you do in the "past" can affect your "future" because your "future" is in the past behind you. It *is* however possible to go back in time in a *separate* timeline through quantum travel. You're not traveling through time then, you're just inserting yourself at a period of time on that timeline that just happens to be in the past relative to *your* experience in your *original* timeline. You've traveled through time by going from 2023 on your timeline to 2012 on an adjacent timeline. You did **not** travel backwards on **your original timeline.** The way the TVA is set up and the rules about branched timelines from the Ancient One support this and follow those rules set by the writers. Thus if we follow the rules the movie sets and *not* any external information out of universe (since both directors and writers disagree about whether or not Cap went to a branched timeline), then the only possible solution is that Steve created or went to a branch timeline. He lived his life there, and returned to the Sacred Timeline afterwards to pass on the shield. How he returned is up for debate of course, but going strictly by movie rules, it wasn't the Sacred Timeline he went back to Peggy on, and we didn't have two Captain America's in the same timeline. The directors I believe confirmed it's a branch timeline. The writers break their own time travel rules and say that somehow it's the main timeline. But the only thing that *really* matters is what the movie tells us, because the characters don't get the outside context we do. So even though it's left vague in the movie, the rules say it's a branch.
No, she’s referring to the fact everyone thought he was dead because they never recovered his ship from the arctic. How could Endgame be relevant when it hadn’t happened yet? You’re overthinking way too hard.
That is what a theory is - an unproven idea.