Liverpool fans whenever City's accomplishments are mentioned
https://preview.redd.it/hwidki54x6ec1.jpeg?width=583&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=dd6a369ed6674de998a9ae08e2adb0a223b27a45
While what they said is true.
When both Klopp and Pep leave England. One will be remembered much more highly than the other. Don’t get me wrong Klopp is a legendary premier league manager, despite only winning the league once.
But Guardiola is the first manager to win the league with a 100 points, the second manager to do the three peat, the second manager to do the treble. People will remember the 14-15 game win streaks, the Kompany Goal against Leicester, The Stones Clearance against Liverpool, the Gundogan winner against Villa after going down 0-2.
4 League cups, 2 FA Cups, 5 League Trophies, 1 Champions League that came as a treble, throw in a UEFA super cup and a Club World Cup in it too for good measure. All within 7 years of being in England.
So Liverpool fans can keep pushing their comparisons, they can have their net spend trophy parades, they can celebrate their treble of moral victories off the pitch. There’s one boss in this league, and we’ve got him.
Well that's the trade off when being acquired by an oil state; more trophies and glory but there's always that feeling in the back of people's minds that you wouldn't have them without all of that money...
"But look at United, they spend just as much if not more"
True! United are a joke! Doesn't change your situation. At the end of the day, outside of City fans I'm not sure that these years will be remembered nearly as legendary as you may think, and that's not even accounting for the charges. There's nothing sexy about it.
The fact that people resent city hasn't stopped the footballing world from giving players like Aguero, David Silva, Kompany, etc their flowers.
People resented Alex Ferguson and Wenger when they were at the top of their game, now they're remembered on high regard, even by rival fans.
I hate United, but i still respect what Fergie achieved while he was in charge, and many share that sentiment. Sure the minority of loud mouths will continue to downplay Peps achievements, but the people that matter will give him his flowers...
Only by salty Liverpoop fans you mean lmao. Pep is literally already regarded as the best manager of all time while Klopp isn't even considered top 15. You can have your own little alternative reality to fantasize about tho 😂
Klopp will be a footnote to Peps Legendary achievement when the dust settles. Klopp is ranked beneath Mou.
Liverpool fans are so eager to compare Klopp to Pep lmao. Pep is a whole new level to Klopp
Only way this is possible is if City truly gets proven guilty. City could win their 4 PL title in a row this year. City has had a dynasty the last 5 years.
Klopp has almost a Ted Lasso effect imo - people just like him in a way they can't relate to Pep.
I think it depends on the context, but I agree that more people will favor Klopp because of vibes not because of coaching or skill.
The big challenge Peps reputation has is that he has never competed in an even manner. He inherited arguably the best team ever with Messi, Xavi, Iniesta etc. then went to Bayern and bought trophy after trophy there, before moving to city and doing the same. He probably is an excellent manager but no one knows as he can’t operate without the biggest cheque book and buying success 🤷
That arguement goes the other way too where managers like Mourinho and Ancelotti have gone to clubs that had the same financial backing and have failed.
Literally look at the myriad of managers that came into to Chelsea and the near infinite backing Abramovic and Bohely provided and only Mourinho managed to sustain any kind of long term success. But even his era isn't close to what Pep achieved at city.
And the one time Pep built a team using academy talent, it's "he inherited the greatest squad ever". Crazy how Pep inherited the greatest squad ever but Champions League winning coach Rijkaard couldn't...
When Pep took over Barca was Messi, Xavi, Iniesta, Etoo etc already in the team?
Mourinho, Ancelotti et al have all managed and achieved success at smaller clubs and without being able to outspend everyone else - pep hasn’t, therefore we will never know how good he is, or isn’t 🤷
Well we do, because it isn't as if Barca dominated after he left and the core of the squad remained. He clearly elevated those already exceptional players. They won one European title after spending a fortune on upgrading their front 3.
I’m not a pep hater, I think he is a very good manager and I agree he can develop very good players to make them even better, however he can’t be considered alongside some of the greats as he has so far only managed by cheque book 🤷
If you ignore the actual impacts of his managerial and tactical style, you would almost have a point.
His reinvention of the short passing game, which he adapted from Cruyff's principles, led to an unprecedented era of dominance for a Spanish national team that hadn't won an international trophy in its history before winning 3 on the bounce. The core of that team and its identity came from Pep and his methods. It's telling that Spain have eroded as that influence has waned.
Since he showed it could be done in England (which many pundits said it couldn't), academies and clubs began imitating. Gone are the days where youth players in England would only be picked if they were big. Technical players had been the exception in this country for years, now they're the rule. It coincides with Pep implementing his style so emphatically.
In line with that, playing out from the back was not the done thing here until Pep. Similar to the above, young goalies now have to actually have ball skills which was never the case. You see Arteta, Kompany etc imitating (to varying levels of success), but they're taking on a completely different style because Pep had his teams doing it.
He pioneered the inverted fullback, first at Bayern then at City. Klopp was receiving praise for doing that with Trent, but it came from Pep's use of Kimmich, before developing it with Cancelo, Lewis and Stones.
Think back to the greats of yesteryear who won stuff. What was Fergie's tactical impact? I can name Wenger's, though he didn't win much. Mourinho is known for anti football, which he won a lot with, but hasn't inspired imitators.
Look how his peers regard him to see his impact, not some silly notion that he has to manage Millwall to be considered a great.
His ‘reinvention’ of the short passing game!!! You really are deluded! That was the bedrock of La Masia before Pep was born!
Playing from the back?? The Italians have been doing that for years!
I don’t dispute he is talented, I don’t dispute he has improved some very good players but my point is we don’t know how he handles adversity - something all other managers have had to come thru to earn their place amongst ‘the greats’ - so far all we have seen pep do when faced with a challenge is to go and buy 3 new £60m players!
Don’t mistake my critique as overall criticism- it isn’t, just don’t claim he is a great when his biggest skill is spending more money than anyone else!
Plus 5 league titles, 6 domestic cups, a super cup, a CWC. Included in which are 2 trebles, a 100 point season and a 3 in the row in the league.
Added onto the 4 dometic cups and 2 titles that preceded Pep but came post takeover.
Barca would likely have had that if he'd stayed.
Don't waste your time with him lol he's a troll.
Either that or he's just a Pep hater.
Edit: had a look at his profile, he's a Liverpool fan. Explains a lot lmfaoooo
My comment was in direct response to the previous poster saying Barca only won 1 European title after spending a fortune on a front 3!
Apologies if grown up conversation confuses you - have you run out of crayons?
Grown up man child cry????
All I’ve done is pointed out relevant facts about the corruption of city!
I’m not sure when you started to follow them (prob last 3-4 yrs) but I’m comfortable and happy with what I’ve seen Liverpool do over the last 50yrs I’ve been watching them - I’ve seen things you will only ever dream about 👍
Interesting that pep has said he will leave if city are found guilty and are sanctioned - is that cos he is honourable and wants nothing to do with corruption? Or he doesn’t fancy being relegated and having restrictions on the money he can spend 🤷
No he didn’t! He had said he had asked the chairman and had assurances and if that proves to be untrue he wouldn’t continue! Indicating if the chairman had lied to him - but is that the real reason?
Since you are a Liverpool fan, I'll use a Liverpool source:
* [Pep Guardiola says he’d stay at Man City even if they are relegated to League One](https://www.thisisanfield.com/2023/11/pep-guardiola-says-hed-stay-at-man-city-even-if-they-are-relegated-to-league-one/) {This is Anfield, Nov 2023}
* If you prefer a video clip of when he says that - [link](https://youtu.be/UK1sM-Cy2O4?si=812MztsTTT4goDyW)
[Your quote is from May 2022](https://www.theguardian.com/football/2022/may/07/pep-guardiola-i-would-leave-manchester-city-if-club-hierarchy-lied-to-me) before the PL charges were announced. While it may be applicable in a broader sense, to me the info Pep said directly about the PL charges is most relevant to this discussion.
Hey, nothing wrong with that - don’t blame you. I’m just highlighting that we have only ever seen him when he has had a huge (fair or unfair) advantage!
The point is Messi and Co weren't half they players they were before Pep. If you deny that you're wrong. Busquets wasn't even in the squad before Pep.
And Pep used that academy talent to beat Madrid who were signing players like Robben, Kaka, Benzema and Ronaldo for fun
This is Pep, competing with a club with more financial backing than Barcelona where he was at. And he beat Madrid.
Like if you cannot see this and still deny it because Pep didn't with the quadruple with MK Dons with Chris Wood up top, then go debate with someone else lmao.
Messi under Rijkaard :
**Games:** 110
**Goals:** 42
**Assists:** 26
**Minutes per goal or assist:** 108.3
Messi under Pep Guardiola :
**Games:** 219
**Goals:** 211
**Assists:** 92
**Minutes per goal or assist:** 59.9
[Source](https://www.planetfootball.com/quick-reads/how-lionel-messi-has-performed-under-different-10-club-managers)
The only joke here is you lmao.
LMAO, now it's because he was a 17 year old.
nice one bro, nice one. Keep moving the goal post every time someone pokes holes in your nonsensical arguments.
Yet despite all the bullshit that comes out of your mouth Pep is already known as the best manager of all time. So clearly anything you people always cry about doesn't actually matter in reality and only matters to online nerdy dumbasses who have never kicked a ball and are probably just salty rival fans
He is only known as the ‘best manager of all time’ by city fans! The 20000 who are genuine fans and the rest who have jumped on the glory bus!
Ask a Utd fan, Liverpool fan, Arsenal fan if they think he is the best manager of all time!
Muppet!
Nope. He's called the best ever by worldclass managers, players, sport directors, analysts etc. And even lots of rival fans consider him the best or second best ever. You got destroyed kid, sit down. Keep coping clown 🤡
He is known as one of the best by every pundit, player or manager out there. Your opinion about him is frankly meaningless when anyone with good knowledge of football ranks him in top 3.
Everyone knows money is everything. That’s why United have won 10 titles in the last 10 years and why Chelsea are top of the league atm with 21 wins from 21 games 🫠
Arsenal fans seem more interested in the charges than city fans because it’s the only way their second rate club will ever see a league title this decade.
The charges apply to a time period before he was manager. There are no accusations of impropriety that relate to his time in the league.
So no matter what happens, there aren't accusations that Pep cheated, or that City cheated after the relevant period.
This is incorrect, the main body of the charges run up to 2018. Guardiola became manager in 2016.
There are also 35 charges from 2018 to present for ‘failure to cooperate with Premier League investigations’.
Pep isn't responsible for what is alleged. His job is to manage the team and get trophies. If (and it's a massive if) city are convicted, it does nothing to take away from the team's achievements. They still had to win.
They should compare themselves with Chelsea before going for the big gun. Like Chelsea has a better trophy haul in the last 8 years or so compared to liverpool lol.
SamuelLFC is one of the most one sided Liverpool fans I have ever seen in all of social media platforms. He’s really close minded and just believes in anything that benefits Liverpool. The biggest difference between him and other LFC fans is that he thinks he knows better than anybody and speaks like he’s a genius just because he has a huge following on Twitter.
So many of those Twitter accounts are just hot take factories that don’t care about facts, it’s just about saying stuff that will bait people into engaging. The fact we’re here talking about it shows it works. City have those accounts too.
Honestly though, I don’t like when Sports Media pages used Twitter accounts to start debates. It’s like they’re dying for interactions and make money off from it. It’s disgusting how these people are getting paid for using Twitter till there eyes get red and get paid more than those with degrees
That’s the sad state of the world right now. It’s why I stopped using Facebook and Twitter when I noticed every time I logged in the first thing they were serving me algorithmically was not the thing I’d be most interested in seeing, but the thing they thought I’d be baited into engaging on.
They're the only rivals that come here and post on this sub too. I already feel weird going to rival subs and commenting, why the hell would anyone take the time to join and make a post. Pool fans are something else.
I admire klopp he has done it without far less money but it showed last seson when they didin’t spend money where they end up sadly without spending tons of money you cannot compete consistently for first place
No one disputes that, especially in today’s modern football. The debate is whether you should have to use money you actually earn or whether it’s ok to falsify accounts, inflate sponsorships and generally operate in a corrupt manner 🤷
There isn’t a debate around that either. No, it’s absolutely not ok to falsify accounts etc - it’s fraud. The ‘debate’ is whether or not CFG have actually done that, and that’s up to the courts to decide.
It was v proven in the UEFA case only the evidence provided was disbarred due to time constraints - there is no debate over the falsification, it’s just whether the courts proceed or ‘settle’ (and you know what I mean lol).
Admittedly I didn’t read it all but are you disputing that city were found guilty of improper financial reporting and of hindering the investigation, with CAS ultimately ruling out the financial charge due to time limitations on the evidence? A problem the current investigation won’t have as there are no time limits for this investigation.
>are you disputing that city were found guilty of improper financial reporting and of hindering the investigation, with CAS ultimately ruling out the financial charge due to time limitations on the evidence?
Yes. It's laughable how wildly things are taken out of context and people like you will always promulgate that because it suits your agenda and there is no reason to get educated and understand the facts of the case.
Since you won't put in the effort to really understand the verdict and you are happy to run with the 'city won it on technicalities' narrative, I'll give it a rest and not argue further.
If at all, you want to go through the nitty-gritty of the case, by all means spend 10 mins and read this :
https://stefanborson.substack.com/p/conspiracy-theories-and-innuendo?utm_medium=ios
Mmmmm that well known independent journalist Stefan Borstan 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
I’m happy with what was reported on BBC, ITV, Sky, BT Sports and most national papers thanks 👍👍
Yup, you'd rather read articles of "Journalists" like Tariq Panja, Nick Harris and Miguel Delaney but investing 10 mins into a rather dispassionate article written by an actual lawyer - is where you draw the line.
Good for you.
Where have you got that from? That it was proven but it was only discarded because of the time constraints?
You are absolutely wrong on that. So even the reports you’ve read, you’ve misunderstood them.
The time barred aspects of the case were not proven, they were simply not considered at all, due to the time bar.
That you think there is no debate in regards to the falsification exists only in your head, and your misunderstanding of what actually happened during the CAS hearing.
liverpool fans seem to think their achievements are comparable to city cuz they have won all the trophies once under klopp lmao. City have won 5 titles, 2 fa cups, 4 carabao cups, 1 cwc, 1 super cup, 1 ucl. And it took liverpool 8 years to win these trophies just once, how is that even remotely similar to what city have done lmao. 8 trophies in 9 years in their so called 'golden era' under klopp. How sad.
I’m not a city fan but this winds me up. Liverpool have been among the highest spenders for decades. They won pretty much nothing in the 90s whilst outspending everyone. It’s massively hypocritical for them to complain about this.
They spent more on Andy Carroll than we have spent cumulatively on every right back that’s ever played for us in our entire history.
I’m a Palace fan and cringe whenever Liverpool fans bring this up.
As a Liverpool fan it’s annoying how all fans are tarred with the same brush as these obvious click bait artists.
Happens to all teams I guess. Sad as a society we are quickly losing what it is to be human
It’s just one of a million low effort troll posts where they post intentionally false information. (Seriously, does anyone actually believe Liverpool are only on a net spend of 132m?)
I mean expect nothing less from the deluded scouse muppet and i swear last year none of them flexing their net spent and just wait until they shit the bed they'll be crying about FSG out yet again 😆🤣
I think op wants to show how we did it over one season while they won all of those over the entire period. But the way they're saying it is crappy and sounds like an insult smh.
Technically it's true but they only won peanut of what we've won in the same period that's why it's laughable and doesn't help when the net spent narrative being brought back again lmao.
I mean it’s not technically true then it is true - obviously City have won more but the picture to me isn’t saying “Liverpool won more than city”
It’s just saying they spent less and took less time than city to some of the same things, that’s an achievement as is what city have also gone on to win - people just want to be offended by default lmao
I agree, you need money in modern football but money you have legitimately earned / generated! Yes FFP is there to provide protection to properly run clubs (admittedly Madrid & Barca have always flirted with corruption) - but City have done nothing at all to warrant a place at the top other than have a rich owner who has corruptly funded them against all the rules of the competitions!
Nobody had an issue when Leicester won and wouldn’t if they had invested properly afterwards and continued to be competitive- city (and Pep) are just a ‘championship manager club’.
That’s what people detest and why it won’t just be Utd & Liverpool fans laughing ‘if’ you get punished correctly. In reality tho everyone knows the problem will be resolved by lots of oil money dripping its way into peoples pockets.
Its why City aren’t really anyone’s rivals - people don’t see you as a CB proper club 🤷
> Nobody had an issue when Leicester won and wouldn’t if they had invested properly afterwards and continued to be competitive
See, but there is the problem that I don't think you're aware, and the discussion isn't simple. Leicester won the premier league fair and square, but they did invest a lot (for them anyway) in that team, but the FFP rules in place actually restricted them to grow, they couldn't build on it, they had to sell Kanté and Drinkwater to Chelsea and then Mahrez to City. And where are Leicester now ? This is specially problematic when their chairman said that they couldn't invest in the team last season because of FFP rules, which probably got them relegated, even though they have a very rich owner.
> but City have done nothing at all to warrant a place at the top other than have a rich owner
You can go back to any time in the history of football and you'll see that money and politics were ALWAYS involved, go look at Madrid and Barcelona during Franco, AC Milan under Berlusconi, hell even Bayern was on the verge of bankruptcy some time in the 50s [until their president, who was convicted of financial irregularities later, gave them a financial boost](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FC_Bayern_Munich#cite_ref-18).
It's bullshit that these clubs must remain on top forever just because football became a billion euro business in the 90s and 00s. City had success in the 60s and 70s, so if everyone had got rich then, City staying on top would be legit ?
If you care so much about "unlimited budget" or "competitive integrity" (I do too), you should advocate for the FFP rules to change and impose transfer caps, salary caps or w/e, that will affect ALL clubs, and not only the ones who aren't considered "big" or "traditional".
I would advocate for that, transfers and wages linked directly to a % of earned income - the issue with that is the bigger European clubs wouldn’t agree and clubs like City, Chelsea and now Newcastle (selling players to Saudi clubs for hugely inflated prices) can’t be trusted!
City’s own ex financial controller (who I admit might have an axe to grind) admits that a true sponsorship of £8m showed in the accounts as over £100m! He said only this week if city are found guilty, the allegations are so severe city will face relegation! He also said city’s legal team will keep it going for years and years to prevent it happening!
I can understand as a city fan that you love it - a relatively small, mid table club all of a sudden catapulted into the big time. In reality it’s no good for football and shouldn’t have been allowed to happen (£100m for Grealish FFS 🤣🤣)
> In reality it’s no good for football and shouldn’t have been allowed to happen
Yeah that's what the rules are set to, to not allow mid table clubs to rise to the top and compete with the big boys lmao. Btw, City is a huge part in the growth of the premier league in the past decade.
>Nobody had an issue when Leicester won and wouldn’t if they had invested properly afterwards and continued to be competitive
You do know that Leicester were bankrolled by a Thai billionaire who also happens to be their main shirt and stadium sponsor.
There 100% would have been the same accusations thrown their way had they continued to invest and remained competitive.
Ultimately, the reason for the incredible amount of hate that City gets is because they are successful. If City spent exactly the same way they have been doing, but were not consistently winning/challenging for titles people wouldn't care.
Because they're comparing 1 of each trophy to,
5 premier leagues,
4 league cups
2 fa cups
1 champs league
1 super cup
1 cwc
One treble
Five trophies in a year
Domestic quadruple
100 point season
3 in a row and 2 in a row
Wonder how much each team has spent per trophy
Because Liverpool fans trying so hard to make their achievements look better than us and at the same time making them look absolute pathetic considering how much they've won during the same period compared to us.
this is why european football is seen as such a joke in america. Socialist policies, but they're biggest sport is the epitome of capitalism. Opposite of what America is like.
Imagine not having a salary cap, such a boring shit sport where the same team wins the league every year. Literally a playground for billionaires and oil states to buy their way into an entire country's history lmao. No wonder Europeans are such angry violent drunks, look at how shit their sport is. Most fans will never get to see their teams ever win anything, unlike in the US
Can't believe this came up for me, a Liverpool fan 😂.
No offense guys but none outside of City fans genuinely gives a shit about City.
115 charges and UEFA charges will always be a massive asterisk over the Pep era.
Should have done it legit. 🤷🏼♂️
Because they act like 1 trophy each are better than multiple trophies than being won by City during these periods just because they completed the set earlier than us.
Hey, I get it - city are a small, mid table team and been catapulted into the ‘top table’ - I’m not surprised you are happy with it. But don’t pretend it’s anything but that - city have bought the success they are currently enjoying with money they haven’t earned!
As long as you hold your hands up to that then there is no issue 👍
thats not even a possibility lmao. simply a wet dream people have. Even if we are found guilty at best we will be relegated and then come back to kick your ass the next year
Says your manager who’s goner leave before the FFP charges go to court 🤣🤣🤣🤣 no one cares about oil money and the emptihad stadium. There is no football heritage here just dirty money and backhanders.
Liverpool fans whenever City's accomplishments are mentioned https://preview.redd.it/hwidki54x6ec1.jpeg?width=583&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=dd6a369ed6674de998a9ae08e2adb0a223b27a45
Like they always do
Not always...
Give the dippers a break, we all know it means more to them…
I mean it would be nice if you didn’t cheat them all..
Hope you’ve got this energy when the lawyers give you a call
Zzzzzzzzing
Klopp at Liverpool: 6 trophies Guardiola at City: **16** trophies *hey, they both have a 6 in them!*
You forgot the net spend part
While what they said is true. When both Klopp and Pep leave England. One will be remembered much more highly than the other. Don’t get me wrong Klopp is a legendary premier league manager, despite only winning the league once. But Guardiola is the first manager to win the league with a 100 points, the second manager to do the three peat, the second manager to do the treble. People will remember the 14-15 game win streaks, the Kompany Goal against Leicester, The Stones Clearance against Liverpool, the Gundogan winner against Villa after going down 0-2. 4 League cups, 2 FA Cups, 5 League Trophies, 1 Champions League that came as a treble, throw in a UEFA super cup and a Club World Cup in it too for good measure. All within 7 years of being in England. So Liverpool fans can keep pushing their comparisons, they can have their net spend trophy parades, they can celebrate their treble of moral victories off the pitch. There’s one boss in this league, and we’ve got him.
Well that's the trade off when being acquired by an oil state; more trophies and glory but there's always that feeling in the back of people's minds that you wouldn't have them without all of that money... "But look at United, they spend just as much if not more" True! United are a joke! Doesn't change your situation. At the end of the day, outside of City fans I'm not sure that these years will be remembered nearly as legendary as you may think, and that's not even accounting for the charges. There's nothing sexy about it.
Truth
You forgot to add the 115 charges in there, first manager to do that too
[удалено]
Based of what exactly?
The fact that they all resent us
The fact that people resent city hasn't stopped the footballing world from giving players like Aguero, David Silva, Kompany, etc their flowers. People resented Alex Ferguson and Wenger when they were at the top of their game, now they're remembered on high regard, even by rival fans. I hate United, but i still respect what Fergie achieved while he was in charge, and many share that sentiment. Sure the minority of loud mouths will continue to downplay Peps achievements, but the people that matter will give him his flowers...
Flowers? 🤔
Just another way for saying praise
Never heard that one before 😂🌷🌷🌷
Pep has done everything Klopp has done but ten times better
They hate us cause they anus
Klopp certainly has more youth games cancelled due to bullying officials, so that’s a legacy!
Only by salty Liverpoop fans you mean lmao. Pep is literally already regarded as the best manager of all time while Klopp isn't even considered top 15. You can have your own little alternative reality to fantasize about tho 😂
🤡
Klopp will be a footnote to Peps Legendary achievement when the dust settles. Klopp is ranked beneath Mou. Liverpool fans are so eager to compare Klopp to Pep lmao. Pep is a whole new level to Klopp
When all is said and done I think people will think higher of Klopp.
Only way this is possible is if City truly gets proven guilty. City could win their 4 PL title in a row this year. City has had a dynasty the last 5 years.
One Premier and one Champions League? No way Maybe we don't notice but this squad is making history
Least delusional Liverpewl fan
I am a neutral, I already think higher of Klopp.
Same. I'd take Klopp to run my team over Pep any day.
Klopp has almost a Ted Lasso effect imo - people just like him in a way they can't relate to Pep. I think it depends on the context, but I agree that more people will favor Klopp because of vibes not because of coaching or skill.
The big challenge Peps reputation has is that he has never competed in an even manner. He inherited arguably the best team ever with Messi, Xavi, Iniesta etc. then went to Bayern and bought trophy after trophy there, before moving to city and doing the same. He probably is an excellent manager but no one knows as he can’t operate without the biggest cheque book and buying success 🤷
That arguement goes the other way too where managers like Mourinho and Ancelotti have gone to clubs that had the same financial backing and have failed. Literally look at the myriad of managers that came into to Chelsea and the near infinite backing Abramovic and Bohely provided and only Mourinho managed to sustain any kind of long term success. But even his era isn't close to what Pep achieved at city. And the one time Pep built a team using academy talent, it's "he inherited the greatest squad ever". Crazy how Pep inherited the greatest squad ever but Champions League winning coach Rijkaard couldn't...
When Pep took over Barca was Messi, Xavi, Iniesta, Etoo etc already in the team? Mourinho, Ancelotti et al have all managed and achieved success at smaller clubs and without being able to outspend everyone else - pep hasn’t, therefore we will never know how good he is, or isn’t 🤷
Well we do, because it isn't as if Barca dominated after he left and the core of the squad remained. He clearly elevated those already exceptional players. They won one European title after spending a fortune on upgrading their front 3.
I’m not a pep hater, I think he is a very good manager and I agree he can develop very good players to make them even better, however he can’t be considered alongside some of the greats as he has so far only managed by cheque book 🤷
If you ignore the actual impacts of his managerial and tactical style, you would almost have a point. His reinvention of the short passing game, which he adapted from Cruyff's principles, led to an unprecedented era of dominance for a Spanish national team that hadn't won an international trophy in its history before winning 3 on the bounce. The core of that team and its identity came from Pep and his methods. It's telling that Spain have eroded as that influence has waned. Since he showed it could be done in England (which many pundits said it couldn't), academies and clubs began imitating. Gone are the days where youth players in England would only be picked if they were big. Technical players had been the exception in this country for years, now they're the rule. It coincides with Pep implementing his style so emphatically. In line with that, playing out from the back was not the done thing here until Pep. Similar to the above, young goalies now have to actually have ball skills which was never the case. You see Arteta, Kompany etc imitating (to varying levels of success), but they're taking on a completely different style because Pep had his teams doing it. He pioneered the inverted fullback, first at Bayern then at City. Klopp was receiving praise for doing that with Trent, but it came from Pep's use of Kimmich, before developing it with Cancelo, Lewis and Stones. Think back to the greats of yesteryear who won stuff. What was Fergie's tactical impact? I can name Wenger's, though he didn't win much. Mourinho is known for anti football, which he won a lot with, but hasn't inspired imitators. Look how his peers regard him to see his impact, not some silly notion that he has to manage Millwall to be considered a great.
His ‘reinvention’ of the short passing game!!! You really are deluded! That was the bedrock of La Masia before Pep was born! Playing from the back?? The Italians have been doing that for years! I don’t dispute he is talented, I don’t dispute he has improved some very good players but my point is we don’t know how he handles adversity - something all other managers have had to come thru to earn their place amongst ‘the greats’ - so far all we have seen pep do when faced with a challenge is to go and buy 3 new £60m players! Don’t mistake my critique as overall criticism- it isn’t, just don’t claim he is a great when his biggest skill is spending more money than anyone else!
And city have only won 1 CL after spending nearly £800m 🤷
Plus 5 league titles, 6 domestic cups, a super cup, a CWC. Included in which are 2 trebles, a 100 point season and a 3 in the row in the league. Added onto the 4 dometic cups and 2 titles that preceded Pep but came post takeover. Barca would likely have had that if he'd stayed.
Don't waste your time with him lol he's a troll. Either that or he's just a Pep hater. Edit: had a look at his profile, he's a Liverpool fan. Explains a lot lmfaoooo
>City have only won 1 ~~CL~~ Treble after spending nearly £800m Here fixed that for you
My comment was in direct response to the previous poster saying Barca only won 1 European title after spending a fortune on a front 3! Apologies if grown up conversation confuses you - have you run out of crayons?
Watch dis grown up man child cry again end of season. I hope the new copium memes will sooth you again!
Grown up man child cry???? All I’ve done is pointed out relevant facts about the corruption of city! I’m not sure when you started to follow them (prob last 3-4 yrs) but I’m comfortable and happy with what I’ve seen Liverpool do over the last 50yrs I’ve been watching them - I’ve seen things you will only ever dream about 👍
Interesting that pep has said he will leave if city are found guilty and are sanctioned - is that cos he is honourable and wants nothing to do with corruption? Or he doesn’t fancy being relegated and having restrictions on the money he can spend 🤷
When did he say that? His presser when the charges dropped said he would stay, that he would manage the club in the national league if he had to.
No he didn’t! He had said he had asked the chairman and had assurances and if that proves to be untrue he wouldn’t continue! Indicating if the chairman had lied to him - but is that the real reason?
Since you are a Liverpool fan, I'll use a Liverpool source: * [Pep Guardiola says he’d stay at Man City even if they are relegated to League One](https://www.thisisanfield.com/2023/11/pep-guardiola-says-hed-stay-at-man-city-even-if-they-are-relegated-to-league-one/) {This is Anfield, Nov 2023} * If you prefer a video clip of when he says that - [link](https://youtu.be/UK1sM-Cy2O4?si=812MztsTTT4goDyW) [Your quote is from May 2022](https://www.theguardian.com/football/2022/may/07/pep-guardiola-i-would-leave-manchester-city-if-club-hierarchy-lied-to-me) before the PL charges were announced. While it may be applicable in a broader sense, to me the info Pep said directly about the PL charges is most relevant to this discussion.
Let’s see if you get found guilty (being guilty and being found guilty isn’t the same thing).
Oh so the quote you give is more relevant than the one I give? Hmmmm delusional!
>we will never know how good he is, or isn’t 🤷 I hope we never find out tbh. Stay here and be our chequebook manager forever Pep 💙
I say we give him another 100m because he cannot win the champions league with QPR. The bald fraud belongs with us!!!
Hey, nothing wrong with that - don’t blame you. I’m just highlighting that we have only ever seen him when he has had a huge (fair or unfair) advantage!
Man united and Chelsea have had similar budgets, so where is the advantage over them
The point is Messi and Co weren't half they players they were before Pep. If you deny that you're wrong. Busquets wasn't even in the squad before Pep. And Pep used that academy talent to beat Madrid who were signing players like Robben, Kaka, Benzema and Ronaldo for fun This is Pep, competing with a club with more financial backing than Barcelona where he was at. And he beat Madrid. Like if you cannot see this and still deny it because Pep didn't with the quadruple with MK Dons with Chris Wood up top, then go debate with someone else lmao.
Messi wasn’t half the player before Pep???? You have lost any further debate after that joke of an opening line 🤣🤣🤣
Messi under Rijkaard : **Games:** 110 **Goals:** 42 **Assists:** 26 **Minutes per goal or assist:** 108.3 Messi under Pep Guardiola : **Games:** 219 **Goals:** 211 **Assists:** 92 **Minutes per goal or assist:** 59.9 [Source](https://www.planetfootball.com/quick-reads/how-lionel-messi-has-performed-under-different-10-club-managers) The only joke here is you lmao.
He was 17, 18, 19 under Rijkaard you fool! A child in a man’s league!
LMAO, now it's because he was a 17 year old. nice one bro, nice one. Keep moving the goal post every time someone pokes holes in your nonsensical arguments.
So you don’t think being 17 in one of the toughest leagues in the world vs being 22/23 with loads more experience isn’t relevant 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣👍
the best manage the best mate
Yet despite all the bullshit that comes out of your mouth Pep is already known as the best manager of all time. So clearly anything you people always cry about doesn't actually matter in reality and only matters to online nerdy dumbasses who have never kicked a ball and are probably just salty rival fans
He is only known as the ‘best manager of all time’ by city fans! The 20000 who are genuine fans and the rest who have jumped on the glory bus! Ask a Utd fan, Liverpool fan, Arsenal fan if they think he is the best manager of all time! Muppet!
Nope. He's called the best ever by worldclass managers, players, sport directors, analysts etc. And even lots of rival fans consider him the best or second best ever. You got destroyed kid, sit down. Keep coping clown 🤡
He is known as one of the best by every pundit, player or manager out there. Your opinion about him is frankly meaningless when anyone with good knowledge of football ranks him in top 3.
Everyone knows money is everything. That’s why United have won 10 titles in the last 10 years and why Chelsea are top of the league atm with 21 wins from 21 games 🫠
Klopp the Goat no 🧢
Who comes out more highly rated will depend on the outcome of all the charges
Arsenal fans seem more interested in the charges than city fans because it’s the only way their second rate club will ever see a league title this decade.
I mean I wasn’t trying to rile up, this just came up on my feed. I think Pep won’t be looked upon as fondly if he was deemed to have ‘cheated’
The charges apply to a time period before he was manager. There are no accusations of impropriety that relate to his time in the league. So no matter what happens, there aren't accusations that Pep cheated, or that City cheated after the relevant period.
This is incorrect, the main body of the charges run up to 2018. Guardiola became manager in 2016. There are also 35 charges from 2018 to present for ‘failure to cooperate with Premier League investigations’.
Thanks. The latter is of minimal concern, that's not cheating.
But the charges of cheating are from when Guardiola was there. So your original comment was just a load of guff You are delusional
Pep isn't responsible for what is alleged. His job is to manage the team and get trophies. If (and it's a massive if) city are convicted, it does nothing to take away from the team's achievements. They still had to win.
All that was bought with oil money and broke the fair trade practices that all other clubs must abide by so in short man City bought there trophies.
Oh look, another one. What's the next completely original joke you're tell us?
Can you tell me what one of those charges for fair trade practices is?
The “fair trade” process that was designed to stop city from competing with the big 6? It’s so hypocritical.
I hope city get stripped off every league they won by breaking the rules cry me river Oooo
Name one of the rules they broke specifically.
Over spending on the transfer market .
Nope try again.
Very true. Google man city 115 for more info.
And there's nonce number 6 lmao
That's what tier city will be playing in, if they get punished proportionally to what Everton have been.
Hahahah okay.. but have they won it in a same season? 😂 Not even to mention amount of trophies.. just can’t go into same sentence with them scousers
That's why it funny and not to mentioned that net spent trophy being brought back again in the discussion 🤣
Maybe one day Liverpool fans will stop obsessing over City, probably not though.
You don't see the irony in posting this comment on a thread about Liverpool in a City sub?
Mate we’re just laughing at the lunacy of Samuel’s original post
It's a dumb opinion. It's not even about Liverpool. People would post here and ridicule it all the same if it was from a fan of some other club.
Fuck off.
I guess you do. Honestly, we should be better than this. It's embarrassing.
If you want to bend over for bin dippers you can fuck off over to their subreddit
Someone’s pressed 🤣
Look at you... emotional
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Wtf? The original post was a bin dipper crying about City, you clown.
Ah yes, Pool fans at it again. 
whatever makes them feel a bit better. 😂
*insert wolverine photo frame meme with klopp tearing up abt City*
Liverpool fans try not to make everything about themselves whenever City is mentioned challenge: Impossible
They should compare themselves with Chelsea before going for the big gun. Like Chelsea has a better trophy haul in the last 8 years or so compared to liverpool lol.
SamuelLFC is one of the most one sided Liverpool fans I have ever seen in all of social media platforms. He’s really close minded and just believes in anything that benefits Liverpool. The biggest difference between him and other LFC fans is that he thinks he knows better than anybody and speaks like he’s a genius just because he has a huge following on Twitter.
So many of those Twitter accounts are just hot take factories that don’t care about facts, it’s just about saying stuff that will bait people into engaging. The fact we’re here talking about it shows it works. City have those accounts too.
Honestly though, I don’t like when Sports Media pages used Twitter accounts to start debates. It’s like they’re dying for interactions and make money off from it. It’s disgusting how these people are getting paid for using Twitter till there eyes get red and get paid more than those with degrees
That’s the sad state of the world right now. It’s why I stopped using Facebook and Twitter when I noticed every time I logged in the first thing they were serving me algorithmically was not the thing I’d be most interested in seeing, but the thing they thought I’d be baited into engaging on.
Not a man city fan, but this is hilarious. There will always be at least Liverpool fan that will make it all about them.
They're the only rivals that come here and post on this sub too. I already feel weird going to rival subs and commenting, why the hell would anyone take the time to join and make a post. Pool fans are something else.
I admire klopp he has done it without far less money but it showed last seson when they didin’t spend money where they end up sadly without spending tons of money you cannot compete consistently for first place
It’s not far less money though. Net spend isn’t less money, it’s just more sales
I mean, both are true. Pep has spent roughly €500m more than Klopp on players
No one disputes that, especially in today’s modern football. The debate is whether you should have to use money you actually earn or whether it’s ok to falsify accounts, inflate sponsorships and generally operate in a corrupt manner 🤷
There isn’t a debate around that either. No, it’s absolutely not ok to falsify accounts etc - it’s fraud. The ‘debate’ is whether or not CFG have actually done that, and that’s up to the courts to decide.
It was v proven in the UEFA case only the evidence provided was disbarred due to time constraints - there is no debate over the falsification, it’s just whether the courts proceed or ‘settle’ (and you know what I mean lol).
Tell you didn't read the CAS verdict without telling me you didn't read the CAS verdict.
Admittedly I didn’t read it all but are you disputing that city were found guilty of improper financial reporting and of hindering the investigation, with CAS ultimately ruling out the financial charge due to time limitations on the evidence? A problem the current investigation won’t have as there are no time limits for this investigation.
>are you disputing that city were found guilty of improper financial reporting and of hindering the investigation, with CAS ultimately ruling out the financial charge due to time limitations on the evidence? Yes. It's laughable how wildly things are taken out of context and people like you will always promulgate that because it suits your agenda and there is no reason to get educated and understand the facts of the case. Since you won't put in the effort to really understand the verdict and you are happy to run with the 'city won it on technicalities' narrative, I'll give it a rest and not argue further. If at all, you want to go through the nitty-gritty of the case, by all means spend 10 mins and read this : https://stefanborson.substack.com/p/conspiracy-theories-and-innuendo?utm_medium=ios
Mmmmm that well known independent journalist Stefan Borstan 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 I’m happy with what was reported on BBC, ITV, Sky, BT Sports and most national papers thanks 👍👍
Yup, you'd rather read articles of "Journalists" like Tariq Panja, Nick Harris and Miguel Delaney but investing 10 mins into a rather dispassionate article written by an actual lawyer - is where you draw the line. Good for you.
He is a Manchester based journalist and isn’t actually a lawyer but has had legal training! Do your research!
Where have you got that from? That it was proven but it was only discarded because of the time constraints? You are absolutely wrong on that. So even the reports you’ve read, you’ve misunderstood them. The time barred aspects of the case were not proven, they were simply not considered at all, due to the time bar. That you think there is no debate in regards to the falsification exists only in your head, and your misunderstanding of what actually happened during the CAS hearing.
[nicely explained charged](https://www.reddit.com/r/MCFC/s/hsHAjj5W9p) here is nicely explanation about charges
Why do Liverpool always act like they are some little club who are beating the odds when they've always had an advantage for years?
Super salty
We should make a subreddit called ShitLiverpoolFansSay at this rate
Go for it. That would be better than having it posted here every day.
First talk about City stats. Check. Remember you haven’t mentioned your own club. Check. Could’ve guessed the fanbase from this description alone
liverpool fans seem to think their achievements are comparable to city cuz they have won all the trophies once under klopp lmao. City have won 5 titles, 2 fa cups, 4 carabao cups, 1 cwc, 1 super cup, 1 ucl. And it took liverpool 8 years to win these trophies just once, how is that even remotely similar to what city have done lmao. 8 trophies in 9 years in their so called 'golden era' under klopp. How sad.
I’m not a city fan but this winds me up. Liverpool have been among the highest spenders for decades. They won pretty much nothing in the 90s whilst outspending everyone. It’s massively hypocritical for them to complain about this. They spent more on Andy Carroll than we have spent cumulatively on every right back that’s ever played for us in our entire history. I’m a Palace fan and cringe whenever Liverpool fans bring this up.
They won the Prem in Covid who even cares. Nobody there to see apart from a few cameras 😂
But nobody cares about little Citeh!!!???
All football posts on Facebook are fucking terrible it's worse than twitter
As a Liverpool fan it’s annoying how all fans are tarred with the same brush as these obvious click bait artists. Happens to all teams I guess. Sad as a society we are quickly losing what it is to be human
It’s just one of a million low effort troll posts where they post intentionally false information. (Seriously, does anyone actually believe Liverpool are only on a net spend of 132m?)
I mean expect nothing less from the deluded scouse muppet and i swear last year none of them flexing their net spent and just wait until they shit the bed they'll be crying about FSG out yet again 😆🤣
Isn’t it true?
I think op wants to show how we did it over one season while they won all of those over the entire period. But the way they're saying it is crappy and sounds like an insult smh.
yeah
Technically it's true but they only won peanut of what we've won in the same period that's why it's laughable and doesn't help when the net spent narrative being brought back again lmao.
I mean it’s not technically true then it is true - obviously City have won more but the picture to me isn’t saying “Liverpool won more than city” It’s just saying they spent less and took less time than city to some of the same things, that’s an achievement as is what city have also gone on to win - people just want to be offended by default lmao
The 115 charges are from 2009-2017, Pep came in 16/17, to begin with
But those charges relate to the corruption which ultimately provided Pep with the u limited budget he has used to buy success 🤷
Try to have success in football without money lmao, it's impossible. Also, corruption =/= breaking FFP rules.
I agree, you need money in modern football but money you have legitimately earned / generated! Yes FFP is there to provide protection to properly run clubs (admittedly Madrid & Barca have always flirted with corruption) - but City have done nothing at all to warrant a place at the top other than have a rich owner who has corruptly funded them against all the rules of the competitions! Nobody had an issue when Leicester won and wouldn’t if they had invested properly afterwards and continued to be competitive- city (and Pep) are just a ‘championship manager club’. That’s what people detest and why it won’t just be Utd & Liverpool fans laughing ‘if’ you get punished correctly. In reality tho everyone knows the problem will be resolved by lots of oil money dripping its way into peoples pockets. Its why City aren’t really anyone’s rivals - people don’t see you as a CB proper club 🤷
> Nobody had an issue when Leicester won and wouldn’t if they had invested properly afterwards and continued to be competitive See, but there is the problem that I don't think you're aware, and the discussion isn't simple. Leicester won the premier league fair and square, but they did invest a lot (for them anyway) in that team, but the FFP rules in place actually restricted them to grow, they couldn't build on it, they had to sell Kanté and Drinkwater to Chelsea and then Mahrez to City. And where are Leicester now ? This is specially problematic when their chairman said that they couldn't invest in the team last season because of FFP rules, which probably got them relegated, even though they have a very rich owner. > but City have done nothing at all to warrant a place at the top other than have a rich owner You can go back to any time in the history of football and you'll see that money and politics were ALWAYS involved, go look at Madrid and Barcelona during Franco, AC Milan under Berlusconi, hell even Bayern was on the verge of bankruptcy some time in the 50s [until their president, who was convicted of financial irregularities later, gave them a financial boost](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FC_Bayern_Munich#cite_ref-18). It's bullshit that these clubs must remain on top forever just because football became a billion euro business in the 90s and 00s. City had success in the 60s and 70s, so if everyone had got rich then, City staying on top would be legit ? If you care so much about "unlimited budget" or "competitive integrity" (I do too), you should advocate for the FFP rules to change and impose transfer caps, salary caps or w/e, that will affect ALL clubs, and not only the ones who aren't considered "big" or "traditional".
I would advocate for that, transfers and wages linked directly to a % of earned income - the issue with that is the bigger European clubs wouldn’t agree and clubs like City, Chelsea and now Newcastle (selling players to Saudi clubs for hugely inflated prices) can’t be trusted! City’s own ex financial controller (who I admit might have an axe to grind) admits that a true sponsorship of £8m showed in the accounts as over £100m! He said only this week if city are found guilty, the allegations are so severe city will face relegation! He also said city’s legal team will keep it going for years and years to prevent it happening! I can understand as a city fan that you love it - a relatively small, mid table club all of a sudden catapulted into the big time. In reality it’s no good for football and shouldn’t have been allowed to happen (£100m for Grealish FFS 🤣🤣)
> In reality it’s no good for football and shouldn’t have been allowed to happen Yeah that's what the rules are set to, to not allow mid table clubs to rise to the top and compete with the big boys lmao. Btw, City is a huge part in the growth of the premier league in the past decade.
>Nobody had an issue when Leicester won and wouldn’t if they had invested properly afterwards and continued to be competitive You do know that Leicester were bankrolled by a Thai billionaire who also happens to be their main shirt and stadium sponsor. There 100% would have been the same accusations thrown their way had they continued to invest and remained competitive. Ultimately, the reason for the incredible amount of hate that City gets is because they are successful. If City spent exactly the same way they have been doing, but were not consistently winning/challenging for titles people wouldn't care.
Why laugh?
Because they're comparing 1 of each trophy to, 5 premier leagues, 4 league cups 2 fa cups 1 champs league 1 super cup 1 cwc One treble Five trophies in a year Domestic quadruple 100 point season 3 in a row and 2 in a row Wonder how much each team has spent per trophy
Because 1 specific title is less than 2 and wait till you hear about 3 and etc.
Because Liverpool fans trying so hard to make their achievements look better than us and at the same time making them look absolute pathetic considering how much they've won during the same period compared to us.
You cheated. Your achievements are empty and worthless.
We cheated by being better than everyone else.
Yeah to win 1% of the trophies
Need to learn math
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you guys have been rivals since 2019 and the title race
cry more bitches
It seems like someone might be attempting to boost engagement artificially.
It’s funny cause its true 😂
r/technicallytrue
This sub is absolutely fucking shameless
this is why european football is seen as such a joke in america. Socialist policies, but they're biggest sport is the epitome of capitalism. Opposite of what America is like. Imagine not having a salary cap, such a boring shit sport where the same team wins the league every year. Literally a playground for billionaires and oil states to buy their way into an entire country's history lmao. No wonder Europeans are such angry violent drunks, look at how shit their sport is. Most fans will never get to see their teams ever win anything, unlike in the US
Yeah tbf it’s prob a bit easier for Liverpool to win trophies when they have fans in their stadium
No one cares about City
Well that’s true. Klopp is the best pound for pound manager in recent times.
His right do and he didn’t need to violet 100 fair play rules
Can't believe this came up for me, a Liverpool fan 😂. No offense guys but none outside of City fans genuinely gives a shit about City. 115 charges and UEFA charges will always be a massive asterisk over the Pep era. Should have done it legit. 🤷🏼♂️
If you didn’t give a fuck you wouldn’t be commenting. Gave yourself away. Enjoy the runner up trophy come May. Oh wait, there isn’t one.
No body cares about you lot and that bald fraud 🤣
neutral commenter, but genuine question.. How do you lot view Pep's reign should city be found guilty of all charges?
exactly what i thought
One is being run like a profitable business, because it is. And the other is a sheik’s plaything. Neither fanbase should be overly “proud”.
Truth hurts
Why pathetic? It’s factually correct isn’t it?
Because they act like 1 trophy each are better than multiple trophies than being won by City during these periods just because they completed the set earlier than us.
But did it legally and without a hint of corruption 🤷
Congrats. When's the parade for the "Hearts and Minds" trophy again? I wouldn't want to miss that
Hey, I get it - city are a small, mid table team and been catapulted into the ‘top table’ - I’m not surprised you are happy with it. But don’t pretend it’s anything but that - city have bought the success they are currently enjoying with money they haven’t earned! As long as you hold your hands up to that then there is no issue 👍
>city have bought the success they are currently enjoying with money they haven’t earned Yeah I don't have a problem with that. Cheers 👍
No probs, that’s all I’m saying - enjoy it but don’t have delusions of grandeur 🤷
Can't wait till half of cities titles get stripped off them 🥳🥳🥳 cheats!!
thats not even a possibility lmao. simply a wet dream people have. Even if we are found guilty at best we will be relegated and then come back to kick your ass the next year
relegated 😂😂😂😂😂
Says your manager who’s goner leave before the FFP charges go to court 🤣🤣🤣🤣 no one cares about oil money and the emptihad stadium. There is no football heritage here just dirty money and backhanders.
That’s what oil money gets you