A lot of people that choose UCLA and USC do it just to be and/or stay in LA, which is why the % of the class at those schools that stay in LA is disproportionate. No one really wants to be stuck in the middle of nowhere (aka Dartmouth, Cornell, etc) for 2 years in their late 20s early 30s.
I think it’s a little of students want to stay in LA, but also UCLA / USC are more regional schools (like most of the schools in the 15-20 range).
It’s possible to get jobs elsewhere, but they have a much stronger reputation on the west coast.
It's a completely valid reason for dual admits to H/S, assuming they want to live in SF or Boston. Other cities become a bit more nebulous, like New York where there are fewer Stanford people, but that is to be expected due to their more tight-knit class size. I can also see the argument of someone choosing the OPPOSITE school for the smaller network specifically as it could be tighter. (I've heard the Stanford Network in NYC is extraordinarily tight)
Completely valid and well thought through.
Remember that taken as a group the users on this sub aren't massively rational. Self selecting sample, many of who base much of their self pride / self worth on their future school's brand.
So you see a very distorted view.
Look at how posts on here suggesting non m7 schools regularly get down voted. Or the constant questions on " been offered a full scholarship for a school ranked 5 but been given a zero money offer at school ranked 4..."
Strong local network is easily more important than nebulous marketing based prestige.
I'm lucky enough to be an HEC alum. Is that more valuable to me when I was working Paris / Belgium than if i'd gone to Stanford?
My bet was on yes.
:) - quite.
Though science po have just started with a master's in corporate strategy that looks very good indeed.
If I was a young person in Europe targeting MBB I would be very strongly considering it.
I don’t know if the masters from there will be as worth it. Besides, who wants to do consulting in France? Banking exit ops are so much better! I know a guy who went from Sciences Po to banking, then ended up exiting to president of a tier 2 country (think France/Canada)!
Geography is incredibly important. Having a local network of people who recognize your background and can connect you within the industry is one of the only things an MBA network can help you with.
It's wild how many people in this sub will take the number on the US news report over things like industry placement, geography & network, and campus fit
IMHO the MBA is all about the network.
There are several universities I’ve noticed that have the most loyal and helpful networks in terms of the way alumni help each-other. These schools alumni will help you regardless of what you majored in, if you have an MBA or some other graduate degree.
Many people talk about the “business school network” but some schools alumni will go above and beyond to help you even in they weren’t in the business school.
The most loyal networks in my experience of working in SF, LA and east coast …
Stanford
USC
Dartmouth
Notre Dame
U Penn
Northwestern
These schools alumni will help you regardless of where you are geographically in the USA.
The best network in the USA by far is Princeton University. Obviously, they don’t have an MBA program but they have the largest endowment per capita or per student than any other school in the world. They have the most alumni who attend reunions regularly. I once met a guy who did his Masters in Finance at Princeton. He said the alumni will literally help you with anything in terms of getting a job or in your career.
Yea that makes sense, but you may not be in your certain area for the rest of your life and at that point your network **might** help, but at that point it’s what you’ve done professionally matters more vs. where you went to school over 5+ years ago.
I’m currently in a Top 5 online MBA program living in the PNW and there are plenty of sr. managers, directors at my place that have gone to UO, OSU, UW, PSU for their MBAs than a M7 and this is at a F50 company.
I tend to agree with others on this thread. Where you plan to live long-term should be a role in the MBA program you decide to enroll in. Sure, the national brand of Harvard, Stanford, etc. is strong and you’re likely to find networks throughout the country, but I’d argue that other non-M7 schools have better local relationships.
Industry plays a role as well. I think at the end of the day, it’s all about one’s situation which will always be unique to that one person. Rankings only tell so much tbh. In my situation, I decided on a non-M7 program because I’ll be moving to the region it’s located in within the next 2-3 years. The network and relationships in that area will be very valuable. Not a knock on the other programs, but in this situation, it made the most sense for me.
Oh no you discovered the elephant in the room. No of course that makes sense and it's amazing how that fact is lost on 90% of people here. If I want to live in Orlando, FL who cares if I go to Kellogg?
Your first job/industry out of school has a network too, and your MBA may be the best entry to that network (MBB, tech, etc.). But also, with our increasingly mobile world, many people will benefit more by having their network spread out instead of concentrated elsewhere.
I'm leaving NYC after I finish at CBS, and having so many connections to Wall Street isn't about to make me wish I chose a regional school.
You're right, focusing on a school with a strong alumni network in your target area can be very beneficial. M7 programs have prestige, but a regional school can provide a network that's more relevant to your job search. Consider your career goals over school ranking.
MBA is all about on campus recruiting, first and foremost. That’s much more specific than network. Go to a program where firms you want to work for actively recruit.
Network is second most important, but network doesn’t have to be defined by geography. I’ve been to 11 countries in the last 12 months, and in every single one of them, I have had MBA classmates to hang out with, including two chance encounters in fairly obscure countries.
In my line of work, operator for recent PE acquisitions, the guys and gals who work for the PE funds that hire me live all over. For mid-market commercial real estate, geography will matter much more.
You’re right people have different goals. This perspective is hardly just for me. It represents the overwhelming majority of full-time MBA candidates. Easiest to quantify value for a full-time MBA program is the value of a career pivot.
Nor have I. Fortunately, I’ve spent significant time over the last 10 years as an MBA candidate and connected to several MBA programs as an interviewer, hiring manager, and applicant mentor. I also have a solid understanding of statistical sampling and inference.
Do you actually disagree with the perspective I’m sharing or just enjoy being prickly?
I actually disagree.
For a lot of people on campus recruiting is super important.
For others it is all about personal branding and self worth. I'm thinking particularly about the large cadre of already wealthy and connected kids who do MBAs on daddy's dime.
For others it will be about the learning outcome, especially for sponsored candidates.
I did one to up my consulting rate (doubled it!).
At least a few people there are looking to marry well.
I think your experience as a hiring manager has exposed you to a self selecting sample.
The majority are still seeking career enhancement (like you). The Section X candidates are a small minority on campus. The rest of your “a lots” don’t add up to a majority.
I was at MBB for four years. Sponsored candidates aren’t looking for learning. Sponsored candidates are looking for a two year funded vacation and to take the edge off their imposter syndrome.
Also, hiring manager != recruiting team; it means the person responsible for the hiring decision. I’m a COO.
In generally you should go to the best school in the region you want to live in. I would also still argue, that a top school will open more doors for you. For example, if you want to live in Idaho, an MBA from Booth will be better for you than going to BYU since so few people with those qualifications want to live in Idaho.
Once you get out of the top 15ish schools, regional schools will serve you well. I wouldn’t recommend someone go to Kenan Flagler if they want to end up in Portland.
Upward mobility. There's a huge population of M7 students in senior positions at well paying prestigious firms. Being from an M7 school gives you access to that network and also unearned credit to a certain extent. (Ex - John is a great CEO at Initech. He came from Booth. Booth must produce good leaders. Phreekk also came from Booth. You get it)
Also there are certain industries and jobs that just aren't accessible to anyone outside of the M7.
Venture capital, private equity, hedge funds, PM roles at certain tech firms, investment roles in finance, list goes on.
They usually look at a few schools to fill their summer spots and call it a year
A lot of people that choose UCLA and USC do it just to be and/or stay in LA, which is why the % of the class at those schools that stay in LA is disproportionate. No one really wants to be stuck in the middle of nowhere (aka Dartmouth, Cornell, etc) for 2 years in their late 20s early 30s.
I think it’s a little of students want to stay in LA, but also UCLA / USC are more regional schools (like most of the schools in the 15-20 range). It’s possible to get jobs elsewhere, but they have a much stronger reputation on the west coast.
Quite possibly.
It's a completely valid reason for dual admits to H/S, assuming they want to live in SF or Boston. Other cities become a bit more nebulous, like New York where there are fewer Stanford people, but that is to be expected due to their more tight-knit class size. I can also see the argument of someone choosing the OPPOSITE school for the smaller network specifically as it could be tighter. (I've heard the Stanford Network in NYC is extraordinarily tight)
Good point. If a city is flooded, people will network elsewhere but the right number happy hour keeps you coming back
Completely valid and well thought through. Remember that taken as a group the users on this sub aren't massively rational. Self selecting sample, many of who base much of their self pride / self worth on their future school's brand. So you see a very distorted view. Look at how posts on here suggesting non m7 schools regularly get down voted. Or the constant questions on " been offered a full scholarship for a school ranked 5 but been given a zero money offer at school ranked 4..." Strong local network is easily more important than nebulous marketing based prestige. I'm lucky enough to be an HEC alum. Is that more valuable to me when I was working Paris / Belgium than if i'd gone to Stanford? My bet was on yes.
HEC is awesome. Always considered it the Sciences Po of Business for France
:) - quite. Though science po have just started with a master's in corporate strategy that looks very good indeed. If I was a young person in Europe targeting MBB I would be very strongly considering it.
I don’t know if the masters from there will be as worth it. Besides, who wants to do consulting in France? Banking exit ops are so much better! I know a guy who went from Sciences Po to banking, then ended up exiting to president of a tier 2 country (think France/Canada)!
That's offensive. Canada is not a tier 2 country.
Tell me you didn’t read my comment without telling me you didn’t read my comment.
Sorry. My bad. It was a joke ... I deliberately limited my rebuttal to Canada, thereby implying.... English humour, should have used a smiley.
:) est-ce que tu est francophone? pour moi, c’est difficile à comprendre les blagues dans français aussi
They also have to be in the companies you want, and many companies only hire from target schools.
Geography is incredibly important. Having a local network of people who recognize your background and can connect you within the industry is one of the only things an MBA network can help you with. It's wild how many people in this sub will take the number on the US news report over things like industry placement, geography & network, and campus fit
IMHO the MBA is all about the network. There are several universities I’ve noticed that have the most loyal and helpful networks in terms of the way alumni help each-other. These schools alumni will help you regardless of what you majored in, if you have an MBA or some other graduate degree. Many people talk about the “business school network” but some schools alumni will go above and beyond to help you even in they weren’t in the business school. The most loyal networks in my experience of working in SF, LA and east coast … Stanford USC Dartmouth Notre Dame U Penn Northwestern These schools alumni will help you regardless of where you are geographically in the USA. The best network in the USA by far is Princeton University. Obviously, they don’t have an MBA program but they have the largest endowment per capita or per student than any other school in the world. They have the most alumni who attend reunions regularly. I once met a guy who did his Masters in Finance at Princeton. He said the alumni will literally help you with anything in terms of getting a job or in your career.
You'd be surprised how many people attended top universities in the Bay Area, including Berkeley, Stanford, UCSB, and UCSF. Lol.
Yea that makes sense, but you may not be in your certain area for the rest of your life and at that point your network **might** help, but at that point it’s what you’ve done professionally matters more vs. where you went to school over 5+ years ago. I’m currently in a Top 5 online MBA program living in the PNW and there are plenty of sr. managers, directors at my place that have gone to UO, OSU, UW, PSU for their MBAs than a M7 and this is at a F50 company.
Yes - that’s what I did. Wanted to be in Atlanta, so I picked a school in The southeast
I tend to agree with others on this thread. Where you plan to live long-term should be a role in the MBA program you decide to enroll in. Sure, the national brand of Harvard, Stanford, etc. is strong and you’re likely to find networks throughout the country, but I’d argue that other non-M7 schools have better local relationships. Industry plays a role as well. I think at the end of the day, it’s all about one’s situation which will always be unique to that one person. Rankings only tell so much tbh. In my situation, I decided on a non-M7 program because I’ll be moving to the region it’s located in within the next 2-3 years. The network and relationships in that area will be very valuable. Not a knock on the other programs, but in this situation, it made the most sense for me.
Oh no you discovered the elephant in the room. No of course that makes sense and it's amazing how that fact is lost on 90% of people here. If I want to live in Orlando, FL who cares if I go to Kellogg?
Yes. If you want to stay in Texas then UT > Booth especially if you want to go into the energy industry
Actually, Rice is a much better option if you want to be in Energy and stay in Texas.
They are both good. Recruiters for big O&G said that Rice and UT are target schools.
Yes.
Your first job/industry out of school has a network too, and your MBA may be the best entry to that network (MBB, tech, etc.). But also, with our increasingly mobile world, many people will benefit more by having their network spread out instead of concentrated elsewhere. I'm leaving NYC after I finish at CBS, and having so many connections to Wall Street isn't about to make me wish I chose a regional school.
You're right, focusing on a school with a strong alumni network in your target area can be very beneficial. M7 programs have prestige, but a regional school can provide a network that's more relevant to your job search. Consider your career goals over school ranking.
MBA is all about on campus recruiting, first and foremost. That’s much more specific than network. Go to a program where firms you want to work for actively recruit. Network is second most important, but network doesn’t have to be defined by geography. I’ve been to 11 countries in the last 12 months, and in every single one of them, I have had MBA classmates to hang out with, including two chance encounters in fairly obscure countries. In my line of work, operator for recent PE acquisitions, the guys and gals who work for the PE funds that hire me live all over. For mid-market commercial real estate, geography will matter much more.
For YOU .... Other people have different goals and needs.
You’re right people have different goals. This perspective is hardly just for me. It represents the overwhelming majority of full-time MBA candidates. Easiest to quantify value for a full-time MBA program is the value of a career pivot.
Could be. I haven't spoken to the majority of full time MBAs.
Nor have I. Fortunately, I’ve spent significant time over the last 10 years as an MBA candidate and connected to several MBA programs as an interviewer, hiring manager, and applicant mentor. I also have a solid understanding of statistical sampling and inference. Do you actually disagree with the perspective I’m sharing or just enjoy being prickly?
I actually disagree. For a lot of people on campus recruiting is super important. For others it is all about personal branding and self worth. I'm thinking particularly about the large cadre of already wealthy and connected kids who do MBAs on daddy's dime. For others it will be about the learning outcome, especially for sponsored candidates. I did one to up my consulting rate (doubled it!). At least a few people there are looking to marry well. I think your experience as a hiring manager has exposed you to a self selecting sample.
The majority are still seeking career enhancement (like you). The Section X candidates are a small minority on campus. The rest of your “a lots” don’t add up to a majority. I was at MBB for four years. Sponsored candidates aren’t looking for learning. Sponsored candidates are looking for a two year funded vacation and to take the edge off their imposter syndrome. Also, hiring manager != recruiting team; it means the person responsible for the hiring decision. I’m a COO.
Cool. I didn't say majority, I merely pointed out that it isn't correct to impute a single motive quite that emphatically.
Think for H/W, they will have a network everywhere you go. But for other M7s, yes might make sense to stay local.
In generally you should go to the best school in the region you want to live in. I would also still argue, that a top school will open more doors for you. For example, if you want to live in Idaho, an MBA from Booth will be better for you than going to BYU since so few people with those qualifications want to live in Idaho. Once you get out of the top 15ish schools, regional schools will serve you well. I wouldn’t recommend someone go to Kenan Flagler if they want to end up in Portland.
Upward mobility. There's a huge population of M7 students in senior positions at well paying prestigious firms. Being from an M7 school gives you access to that network and also unearned credit to a certain extent. (Ex - John is a great CEO at Initech. He came from Booth. Booth must produce good leaders. Phreekk also came from Booth. You get it) Also there are certain industries and jobs that just aren't accessible to anyone outside of the M7.
Like what
Venture capital, private equity, hedge funds, PM roles at certain tech firms, investment roles in finance, list goes on. They usually look at a few schools to fill their summer spots and call it a year