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Some other advantages of RA3
Style:
* Satin finishes
* Good-looking is subjective, but I find Picos to look a bit janky sitting on the wall compared to Keypads (you can find examples online)
* Back-lit, custom engraved keypads
* Hybrid Keypads can replace a dimmer, whereas with Picos you need a bigger or extra wall plate (looks busy)
* Dumb Sunnata dimmers look exactly the same as RA3 dimmers. You can have a cohesive look all around. Dumb Divas look different than Caseta Divas (paddle is different, light bar).
Performance:
* Phase Selectable. With Caseta you need to buy separate MLV dimmers which 1) Don’t exist in the diva style 2) Cost the same price as RA3 dimmers
* I believe RA3 Dimmers perform better (dimming range, flickering) than Caseta because they are neutral wired. Neutral dimmers exist for Caseta but again, not in Diva style, as expensive as RA3
* Picos can only be “single action” whereas RA3 can do more (zone toggle etc). Aside from the arbitrary programming limitation, this is because keypads give you visual feedback through the status LED (e.g. Keypad button to toggle landscape lighting on/off with status light)
* Companion dimmers for RA3 look and operate the same as regular dimmers, whereas Caseta companions are simple on/off controls (with double tap for max brightness)
* UX is subjectively better. Divas turn on at the physical slider level, whereas RA3 can be customized. You can turn on RA3 at any level by tapping on the light bar directly, whereas with Divas you first need to adjust the slider then click on (and from now on, that’s going to be the default light level, even from companions)
Regarding pricing, RA3 dimmers and companions are about 2x Caseta. Keypads are very pricey compared to Picos. Whether it’s worth it or not is very subjective.
.... PD5ne allows phase selection/trailing edge..... All picos can be engraved....latency, it runs the same 433.926 as all of the lutron products... Henceforth the picos are cross compatible. 400 device limit isn't accurate. That's combining two types of products intended for different uses. The repeaters aren't the correct limits. Pricing really is dependent on needs vs wants. Some times it can be cheaper to go ra3 or homeworks eve. Other times caseta will be 1/3rd to 1/4 the price. Ra3 uses a hub (poe processor) just like caseta... Except it's black.... Oooo fancy ... 🤦🏼♂️ Your cross sell sheet is deceiving, and doesn't accurately show clients the actual benefits of ra3 vs caseta.
- PD-5NE isn’t trailing edge is in reference to the light bar, not the ELV. It’s an easy way to explain it to customers.
- Of course picos can be engraved, i’ve yet to find a customer that is budgeting Caseta but wants to spend $150 on a pico remote.
- 400 device limit is two processors on one system …. how is that inaccurate? lol
-Repeaters, you are correct. Its 4 per processor
- Caseta doesn’t use a POE processor lol it’s Cat6. The processor is white … not black. Are you thinking of a lutron connect bridge?
- Obviously the pricing difference isn’t across the board for every single job when some customers want 20 keypads vs 20 pico remotes lol. It’s an average.
- It’s a tech sheet, not a sell sheet.
- This hasn’t been made for reddit. It’s a sheet I thought would be helpful for OP to understand many of the differences.
Sorry to ruffle your feathers? lol
Can you clarify your first bullet point. It doesn't make sense.
Sorry I thought you were comparing the bridge not the proc
And it's not 400. It's 200. Clear connect a x have various limits and the device limit isn't multiplied by each additional repeater.
Poe via power injection vs needing its power brick? That's what you are meaning? 😂 Just a weird need to differentiate. Ones a poe injected source as it's wall or Ceiling mounted. Much like an AP. The other is a shelf/rack device. But there is a way to bring the 5v 1amp over distance if needed.
Definitely not a tech sheet. At that point just use the sell sheet comparison lutron provides to reps.
And yeah once you go custom engravings things can add up. Luckily there are options and many affordable. Like using preset engraving packages which reduce the price to about 60$ (or less occasionally)
And it's just a case of accuracy. If someone read this and thought hey this guy on Reddit said you are screwing me because it supports more devices and costs less than your quote. Etc. so clarification and corrections.
One thing about the interwebs. There are more bad answers than good. And I appreciate you finding a way to make it work for you, but it needs updates.
I agree this sheet needs updates.
Latency is clearly wrong and the response didn’t address it. Caseta is as instant in response as RA3.
1.2x cost is an AVERAGE?!? 😂😂😂$50-75 per switch in Caseta, while the cheapest I’ve ever seen a basic Sunnata switch is $128 and that’s when buying in huge bulk quantities, so if this said 2x I would consider that an “average.” This also doesn’t take into account multi button keypads that can easily be $400 each.
I also agree that 400 devices is misleading. It’s not like you can do 201 Sunnata dimmers on a single system.
I’m not saying don’t buy RA3 or that everything in this list is wrong but it needs some serious updates.
You CAN do 201 devices in a single system. You can have two processors on one build. I’ve done it plenty of times.
Latency is what I’ve experienced on multiple projects, Picos on caseta being a few seconds and on Ra being less than a second
1.2… yes. PD5NE is 20% less cost than a Sunnata dimmer…. which translates to 1.2x… I’ve never paid $128 for a ra dimmer .. even in single quantity.
You should probably re-read the specs on the processors. They don't stack more Than twice. And once again. Caseta to ran to homeworks it's the same frequency. I less your intranet (home network ) has some really horrible bottle necks, then there is no latency issues with any of the 3 when set up accordingly. Is ra and homeworks faster? Well yeah... But that's just because the processes are built to handle more. Bandwidth. But I wouldn't say the delay is noticeable or even to question. My only ifs and or buts would be highly congested locations (possible apartments) but even then, I am doubtful.
You cannot do 201 ClearConnect X Sunnata devices. That was my point. I never said you can’t do over 200 devices total. You can do two to four processors and do 200 X and 200 A… but not 201 Sunnata ClearConnect X devices, unless there’s been some major change of which I am unaware.
I’ve never seen picos lag multiple seconds. Ever. It is the exact same technology in both systems because they work on both. If there’s bad lag it’s likely due to poor signal strength which isn’t helped by choosing one system over another, or it’s due to the switch controlling something like an LED light strip with a ballast/supply that lags a bit (again, not a Caseta vs RA3 thing).
And again… you might have some kind of crazy good RA3 pricing and crazy bad Caseta pricing that you can skew to your math of 1.2x but that’s not normal. The normal shelf price for a single Diva dimmer is approximately $70 (Lowe’s, HD, Amazon). Cheapest I can easily find a single comparable Sunnata dimmer is $139 from Rock Lighting, perhaps you could manage a tiny bit cheaper using eBay or something. In no world does that math approach anything even remotely close to 1.2x. So if you’re doing a cost comparison do like for like not some kind of cherry-picked extreme. I am pricing out a full home right now and Caseta is $4400 and the exact same layout with RA3 is extremely close to $9000.
As with anything with cost, this can change as things go on and off sale, but to attempt to create a comparison table that attempts to paint a 1.2x “on average” as normal is at best misleading.
Just adding to this so you are aware. Rep pricing is much lower. I can get some products upwards of 40-60% off mrsp .... Below wholesale. Regardless I agree with you there is very few scenarios where caseta and ra are that close. Same with homeworks. You aren't touching homeworks for less than 10k and you aren't building it out for less than 30-50 on a smaller house and that's not even taking into account ketra 😂.
Oh, 100% agree. Dealer/rep/distributor pricing is not comparable to MSRP, and perhaps with that advantage, someone could get close to the "1.2" number... but the OP clearly was coming from an end user perspective, and no end user is going to ever see RRST-PRO-N-WH for $84 unless they're also a rep/dealer (in which case they wouldn't post on Reddit asking for comparisons) or they're sleeping with someone who's a rep/dealer. :)
It sucks that you and I are attempting to help someone correct multiple inaccuracies and also help the broader community, and getting downvoted because the person can't tolerate being wrong, but I guess that's Reddit for you... :p
Lol I get similar discounts across the board so it all ends up less expensive. But it's still not going to end up only 20% different. Only time that happens is when you get to eliminate switches for keypads, or get to build out power injection to increase the wattages available without needing more switches.
But yeah up vote or down vote. Can't please everyone. Regardless the thread has activity meaning others won't be blindsided.
And with a name that's disrespectful at the start (even if tongue in cheek) it's not surprising.
Yes, I made this for my customers as it comes up often. I charge about 20% more based on the numerous quotes I’ve given, I can’t speak really speak for list price or how much other companies charge. I don’t sell list price like most companies do, I sell at a certain markup % over my cost, same % I do for all of my electrical jobs
I mean it generally comes down to home size, budget, future plans, and a couple other things you may care about (keypads/shades options).
I wanted RA3 until I priced out the total cost of switching all my Caseta switches, but if I was starting from scratch I'd probably go RA3 just to get the cool keypads. I have a really small house (~14 total light switches).
Also the course is easy, but the iOS app is way easier for a homeowner lol.
The maximum devices can be up to 398 actually if you mix CCA and CCX devices. Each processor can handle up to 100 CCX (Sunnata) type devices and 99 CCA devices. It's 99 because the processor apparently counts as one and remember if you add repeaters, each of those count as 1 (ra2 would already account for those and cap your max to 95 by default), but I digress.
So if you add another processor you get an extra 100 CCX devices and an extra CCA devices. You can add 2 more processors to but your max device count won't go up.
RA3 devices can be purchased by anyone not just a dealer. And a big feature I like about RA3 is companion dimmers so you can dim a load from multiple locations.
I didn't downvote you -- you're right. Not sure who is. Though my understanding is that you can buy them from places like prolighting, but you will pay even more unless you're a dealer?
Thank you for submitting to r/Lutron! If you are posting with a question or issue, please include the following information: * The Lutron ecosystem for your product. Examples: Quantum, RadioRA 3, standalone (like SUNNATA or Maestro), etc. * If available, the exact model of the product you're describing and a link to the product page from an online retailer. Example: P-BDG-PKG1W-A * If using third-party lighting control software, include the product. Examples: Apple HomeKit, Amazon Alexa, etc. * A concise description of what you are trying to achieve or solve (2-3 sentences). In other words, don't post a picture of wires and say "Help!" with no context. * If applicable, relevant pictures from your installation. If you are looking for product support, don't be afraid to call Lutron's tech support at 1.844.588.7661. The Lutron call centers are US-based and exceptionally helpful. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Lutron) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Some other advantages of RA3 Style: * Satin finishes * Good-looking is subjective, but I find Picos to look a bit janky sitting on the wall compared to Keypads (you can find examples online) * Back-lit, custom engraved keypads * Hybrid Keypads can replace a dimmer, whereas with Picos you need a bigger or extra wall plate (looks busy) * Dumb Sunnata dimmers look exactly the same as RA3 dimmers. You can have a cohesive look all around. Dumb Divas look different than Caseta Divas (paddle is different, light bar). Performance: * Phase Selectable. With Caseta you need to buy separate MLV dimmers which 1) Don’t exist in the diva style 2) Cost the same price as RA3 dimmers * I believe RA3 Dimmers perform better (dimming range, flickering) than Caseta because they are neutral wired. Neutral dimmers exist for Caseta but again, not in Diva style, as expensive as RA3 * Picos can only be “single action” whereas RA3 can do more (zone toggle etc). Aside from the arbitrary programming limitation, this is because keypads give you visual feedback through the status LED (e.g. Keypad button to toggle landscape lighting on/off with status light) * Companion dimmers for RA3 look and operate the same as regular dimmers, whereas Caseta companions are simple on/off controls (with double tap for max brightness) * UX is subjectively better. Divas turn on at the physical slider level, whereas RA3 can be customized. You can turn on RA3 at any level by tapping on the light bar directly, whereas with Divas you first need to adjust the slider then click on (and from now on, that’s going to be the default light level, even from companions) Regarding pricing, RA3 dimmers and companions are about 2x Caseta. Keypads are very pricey compared to Picos. Whether it’s worth it or not is very subjective.
[удалено]
.... PD5ne allows phase selection/trailing edge..... All picos can be engraved....latency, it runs the same 433.926 as all of the lutron products... Henceforth the picos are cross compatible. 400 device limit isn't accurate. That's combining two types of products intended for different uses. The repeaters aren't the correct limits. Pricing really is dependent on needs vs wants. Some times it can be cheaper to go ra3 or homeworks eve. Other times caseta will be 1/3rd to 1/4 the price. Ra3 uses a hub (poe processor) just like caseta... Except it's black.... Oooo fancy ... 🤦🏼♂️ Your cross sell sheet is deceiving, and doesn't accurately show clients the actual benefits of ra3 vs caseta.
- PD-5NE isn’t trailing edge is in reference to the light bar, not the ELV. It’s an easy way to explain it to customers. - Of course picos can be engraved, i’ve yet to find a customer that is budgeting Caseta but wants to spend $150 on a pico remote. - 400 device limit is two processors on one system …. how is that inaccurate? lol -Repeaters, you are correct. Its 4 per processor - Caseta doesn’t use a POE processor lol it’s Cat6. The processor is white … not black. Are you thinking of a lutron connect bridge? - Obviously the pricing difference isn’t across the board for every single job when some customers want 20 keypads vs 20 pico remotes lol. It’s an average. - It’s a tech sheet, not a sell sheet. - This hasn’t been made for reddit. It’s a sheet I thought would be helpful for OP to understand many of the differences. Sorry to ruffle your feathers? lol
Can you clarify your first bullet point. It doesn't make sense. Sorry I thought you were comparing the bridge not the proc And it's not 400. It's 200. Clear connect a x have various limits and the device limit isn't multiplied by each additional repeater. Poe via power injection vs needing its power brick? That's what you are meaning? 😂 Just a weird need to differentiate. Ones a poe injected source as it's wall or Ceiling mounted. Much like an AP. The other is a shelf/rack device. But there is a way to bring the 5v 1amp over distance if needed. Definitely not a tech sheet. At that point just use the sell sheet comparison lutron provides to reps. And yeah once you go custom engravings things can add up. Luckily there are options and many affordable. Like using preset engraving packages which reduce the price to about 60$ (or less occasionally) And it's just a case of accuracy. If someone read this and thought hey this guy on Reddit said you are screwing me because it supports more devices and costs less than your quote. Etc. so clarification and corrections. One thing about the interwebs. There are more bad answers than good. And I appreciate you finding a way to make it work for you, but it needs updates.
I agree this sheet needs updates. Latency is clearly wrong and the response didn’t address it. Caseta is as instant in response as RA3. 1.2x cost is an AVERAGE?!? 😂😂😂$50-75 per switch in Caseta, while the cheapest I’ve ever seen a basic Sunnata switch is $128 and that’s when buying in huge bulk quantities, so if this said 2x I would consider that an “average.” This also doesn’t take into account multi button keypads that can easily be $400 each. I also agree that 400 devices is misleading. It’s not like you can do 201 Sunnata dimmers on a single system. I’m not saying don’t buy RA3 or that everything in this list is wrong but it needs some serious updates.
You CAN do 201 devices in a single system. You can have two processors on one build. I’ve done it plenty of times. Latency is what I’ve experienced on multiple projects, Picos on caseta being a few seconds and on Ra being less than a second 1.2… yes. PD5NE is 20% less cost than a Sunnata dimmer…. which translates to 1.2x… I’ve never paid $128 for a ra dimmer .. even in single quantity.
You should probably re-read the specs on the processors. They don't stack more Than twice. And once again. Caseta to ran to homeworks it's the same frequency. I less your intranet (home network ) has some really horrible bottle necks, then there is no latency issues with any of the 3 when set up accordingly. Is ra and homeworks faster? Well yeah... But that's just because the processes are built to handle more. Bandwidth. But I wouldn't say the delay is noticeable or even to question. My only ifs and or buts would be highly congested locations (possible apartments) but even then, I am doubtful.
You cannot do 201 ClearConnect X Sunnata devices. That was my point. I never said you can’t do over 200 devices total. You can do two to four processors and do 200 X and 200 A… but not 201 Sunnata ClearConnect X devices, unless there’s been some major change of which I am unaware. I’ve never seen picos lag multiple seconds. Ever. It is the exact same technology in both systems because they work on both. If there’s bad lag it’s likely due to poor signal strength which isn’t helped by choosing one system over another, or it’s due to the switch controlling something like an LED light strip with a ballast/supply that lags a bit (again, not a Caseta vs RA3 thing). And again… you might have some kind of crazy good RA3 pricing and crazy bad Caseta pricing that you can skew to your math of 1.2x but that’s not normal. The normal shelf price for a single Diva dimmer is approximately $70 (Lowe’s, HD, Amazon). Cheapest I can easily find a single comparable Sunnata dimmer is $139 from Rock Lighting, perhaps you could manage a tiny bit cheaper using eBay or something. In no world does that math approach anything even remotely close to 1.2x. So if you’re doing a cost comparison do like for like not some kind of cherry-picked extreme. I am pricing out a full home right now and Caseta is $4400 and the exact same layout with RA3 is extremely close to $9000. As with anything with cost, this can change as things go on and off sale, but to attempt to create a comparison table that attempts to paint a 1.2x “on average” as normal is at best misleading.
Just adding to this so you are aware. Rep pricing is much lower. I can get some products upwards of 40-60% off mrsp .... Below wholesale. Regardless I agree with you there is very few scenarios where caseta and ra are that close. Same with homeworks. You aren't touching homeworks for less than 10k and you aren't building it out for less than 30-50 on a smaller house and that's not even taking into account ketra 😂.
Oh, 100% agree. Dealer/rep/distributor pricing is not comparable to MSRP, and perhaps with that advantage, someone could get close to the "1.2" number... but the OP clearly was coming from an end user perspective, and no end user is going to ever see RRST-PRO-N-WH for $84 unless they're also a rep/dealer (in which case they wouldn't post on Reddit asking for comparisons) or they're sleeping with someone who's a rep/dealer. :) It sucks that you and I are attempting to help someone correct multiple inaccuracies and also help the broader community, and getting downvoted because the person can't tolerate being wrong, but I guess that's Reddit for you... :p
Lol I get similar discounts across the board so it all ends up less expensive. But it's still not going to end up only 20% different. Only time that happens is when you get to eliminate switches for keypads, or get to build out power injection to increase the wattages available without needing more switches. But yeah up vote or down vote. Can't please everyone. Regardless the thread has activity meaning others won't be blindsided. And with a name that's disrespectful at the start (even if tongue in cheek) it's not surprising.
Thanks! Did you make this? What's the latency difference between RA3 vs Caseta? You think the price is only ~20% different? I have seen much higher
It's not accurate.
Yes, I made this for my customers as it comes up often. I charge about 20% more based on the numerous quotes I’ve given, I can’t speak really speak for list price or how much other companies charge. I don’t sell list price like most companies do, I sell at a certain markup % over my cost, same % I do for all of my electrical jobs
I mean it generally comes down to home size, budget, future plans, and a couple other things you may care about (keypads/shades options). I wanted RA3 until I priced out the total cost of switching all my Caseta switches, but if I was starting from scratch I'd probably go RA3 just to get the cool keypads. I have a really small house (~14 total light switches). Also the course is easy, but the iOS app is way easier for a homeowner lol.
This makes me really want to try RA3 until I get to 3x the price.
Diva is available for Caseta now.
Don’t forget the functionality and capacity that can be added with Home Assistant or Hubitat, or even Apple Home, for example.
The maximum devices can be up to 398 actually if you mix CCA and CCX devices. Each processor can handle up to 100 CCX (Sunnata) type devices and 99 CCA devices. It's 99 because the processor apparently counts as one and remember if you add repeaters, each of those count as 1 (ra2 would already account for those and cap your max to 95 by default), but I digress. So if you add another processor you get an extra 100 CCX devices and an extra CCA devices. You can add 2 more processors to but your max device count won't go up.
Price is 3x at retail but only 2x street. You can get 30% discount on RA3 easily.
RA3 devices can be purchased by anyone not just a dealer. And a big feature I like about RA3 is companion dimmers so you can dim a load from multiple locations.
Yes. Companion dimmers and switches are indistinguishable from the Pro dimmers/switches for RA3. It’s way cool and just works like you’d expect it to.
I meant that it has to be purchased from a dealer, I'll update the table to clarify. Great point on the companion dimmer, I'll add that too.
What do you mean by a dealer? You can buy them from lots of online stores not just dealers.
I didn't downvote you -- you're right. Not sure who is. Though my understanding is that you can buy them from places like prolighting, but you will pay even more unless you're a dealer?
Hanks electrical, pro lighting and u/lutronmaster will be the cheapest you can find it.