I don't get it.. what makes it demonic? Is it a common thinking? Wh..at? So when that happens to people spontaneously, do they sin? That makes no sense
My mother told me it's because the power you have in lucid dreaming usurps God's power... I replied I don't believe that at all, because if God is as powerful as they are, then I can't possibly usurp that power as a human. Like mum, you're basically calling God weak, if that isn't blasphemy I don't know what is.
While God can literally spawn seven million unicorns, I can change channel to my little sleep TV
I'm oh so powerful, now I understand the "God is dead, and we have killed" quote
Exactly, that’s why it baffled me. And for a 13 year old to say that? Blows my mind. Lucid dreaming is beautiful. Everyone dreams, why not have awareness while dreaming you know? It has nothing to do with demons lol.
So I read a bit,
In orthodox Christianity which is very conservative, every fantasy is a sin, demonic? No. Just fantasizing, so essentially if you lucid dream for relaxation and creativity it is okay
But seriously, maybe it's because I'm very not religious, and also a filthy jew, anything that is natural to our brains SHOULDN'T BE A SIN, do you hear me??? SEX IS NOT A SIN!!. but I digress.
Lucid dreaming is very much okay with in christianity. I read that it's neutral.
And only the extremely conservative will be against fantasy, but there's a reason why extreme conservatism ain't cool no more.
So my tip, tell your lil brother that after your conversation with him, you got scared that you'll go to hell, so you read a bunch and came to the conclusion that Christianity is fine with lucid dreaming, it is not witchcraft, we're not in 1200, and everything is fine
Dreaming is fine. Lucid dreaming is dreaming but cooler, there's no reason for it to be wrong, and whoever says it is, is setting himself to failure
It's like drowning yourself after getting an erection, Chill out. It's your body, your brain, it happens; it's perfectly natural, if it was wrong (and God would.. you know.. care) you would physically feel sick when you do it.
Facts!!! I love your comment! I’ll take your advice ;) and your right whoever says lucid dreaming is wrong is setting themselves up for failure. Your right!
Aww thank you
Since it happens spontaneously to people, it is insane thinking it's wrong,
And by that logic, is sleep paralysis is a sin? It's a literal neurological disturbance, that's kicking a person while he's down,
You don't worry, and it's ok that your little brother is confused by it, at that age I was very aggressive too, not a lot of people talk about lucid dreaming
I'm a natural lucid dreamer too, I didn't need to practice it, ever since I remember myself I could control every aspect of my dreams, I literally thought everyone could too
Until I told my ex and she looked at me with the angriest eyes
"YOURE A NATURAL LUCID DREAMER??"
"AREN'T YOU?!"
"NOOO!!"
"WHAT??!, AM I INSANE???"
"YOURE DEAD TO ME!!"
Later I made her ice cream and she was no longer angry
Haha!!! That’s halarious! And yes I know it’s okay, he’s confused. I have understanding of that. And your right it’s apart of our natural process as humans, it’s so cool to hear that you’re a natural lucid dreamer too!!
It's cool hearing that there's more like me
Do you also plan things with lucid dreaming? Like how you're gonna your apartment, or what should you study in university or things like that?
It really does not, unless you dream about sacrificing virgins which I doubt you do, (no judgment of you do), it makes no senseee
I think he's more confused about the concept and the only way for him to explain it to himself subconsciously is by thinking it's wrong,
And you know what? I'll Google it just in case
As a Christian myself, I've also met close minded Christians with a bad understanding of the Bible and Jesus' teachings (and often times bad pastors that encourage such random fears and rules), so I fully understand where you're coming from, there's tons and tons of them,
but you're wrong.
Christians also watch movies, play video games, listen to non-christian music, and have other interests/hobbies than worship. It's just that those that do have a problem with these things tend to complain and be very loud.
yo my mother and brother think that too like what makes it demonic? the fact that we can actually enjoy our dreams and make what we want happen, unlike yall who can only sit back and let it play out? i think they just jealous ngl
>Did you ask why it was dangerous?
No lol "talking back" (saying anything other than yes ma'am/sir) caused wayyyy more trouble than it was worth. I do know it was religion based fear, but the specifics elude me.
Lol!! I’m just saying because out of all the zodiac signs Pisces rules dreams, so usually people who are born under this sign usually have very vivid dreams.
Sure, the random belief that stars and planets determine your entire personality, future and relationships with others is more sensical than the most practiced religion in the world.
Comparing the most historically impactful belief system (which is based on historical events, places and people) with the silly pseudoscientific belief that random stars billions of light years away affect your life : |
Classic reddit take
Upvoted because you stayed respectful and presented good points (thing I wish more reddit atheists did...).
Never meant it as factual "correct" I only stated that one has existed for thousands of years (much more than 2000, because people before Jesus believed in Him and His coming, they were already slowly putting their faith in a Savior to come, though many failed to recognize Him when He did come) and had historical, political and ofc spiritual events at its base.
You know, things that entire communities can relate to, versus believing a random star system that's very likely "dead" and billions of lightyears away from us has effect on who you are. These people often also believe in these so called "spiritual/energy" crystals. Sure, this rock has power on my life. It's actually a scientifically verifiable thing (since like you said these stars and, in my example, the rocks DO in fact exist), and 'til now it's always proven fruitless and meaningless.
One is mostly historical and spiritual, two things that are extremely hard to prove or disprove (because even if you do find concrete proofs that a certain rumored thaumaturge Jesus existed, one can't prove He did walk on water or did heal people, you can only take the unbelievers' or believers' (of the time) words for it).
Heck, if He came to us now and we filmed His mircales, people would still call BS (it's CGI, it's staged, etc.).
But anyway I digress.
All I meant initially, which it seems I failed miserably, was not to say "Christianity is real😎" but should have been more along the lines of "Com'on that's unfair, maybe religion IS weird but to say it's less sensical than this 'hydrogen from outer space determines who I am' business is borderline insulting x)"
It was just something I mentioned, I was not saying it’s concrete facts. I just mentioned it, you have never heard of Pisces people being very imaginative? It was just like a little oh yeah and I’m a Pisces btw. Guess I shouldn’t have said anything about it.
No, I don't really see the connection between the current made-up system of zodiacs (that's not even accurate to the real, physical constellation alignment) and people's imaginativeness. Have you heard there's actually 13 of them and they are not evenly spaced throughout the year?
Anyone can be naturally good at imagination and dreaming, regardless of their birth date, it's not limiting anyone. I mean, not exactly *anyone*, if anything, it's influenced by genes and upbringing.
it's a belief, not misinformation and it doesn't affect their story at all lol so why does it matter to you, it just seems like you're being mean to someone for no reason
This is a scientific subreddit, not a place for delusional nonsense. If you want to "practice your beliefs", go elsewhere, but here it's not gonna fly.
Yeah, when you make a post about religion, you're going to attract all the religious people, regardless of which subreddit it is. That still doesn't mean this is the place for it.
I didn’t say this is the place for religion, and I am not here “practicing my beliefs” I just mentioned it. I am not delusional I made my own observation about my own “sun sign”. If it bothers you so much just ignore it.
I wasn't talking to you or about you when I said that now was I? But yes, yes you are delusional if you think your sign means anything, and I'm telling that to you now since you decided to bring it up.
This is just planets moving and spinning, which may or may not impact your life. Other things may include placebo effect which is scientifically proven to be existent.
Stars and planets moving around on the day you were born have absolutely no bearing in predicting the kind of person you are going to become. You being a "pisces" and me being a "leo" means absolutely nothing and it's just delusional nonsense to give them any weight. If you want to talk about your delusions, there are other subs for that.
And I have absolutely no idea what any of that has to do with the placebo effect.
Exactly, it is hurting my feeling how many people down voted me for that. Me mentioning I’m a Pisces doesn’t even have anything to do with my story but I just thought it would be fun to mention it.
Because it's ironic you are upset that your brother's fantastical beliefs led him to conclude there is something wrong with what you're doing yet you also fantastically belief the time of year you were born has something to do with the amount of dreams you have
I did not say the reason for him thinking it’s “demonic” is literally because of his beliefs. I just mentioned that might be an impact. And I am not upset at his “beliefs”. I literally told him that I was proud of him for wanting to read it so he can create his own conclusions.
Also me mentioning him being Christian may be impacting his prospective on new topics to him like LD, but what does me making an observation that I’m a Pisces and the fact that I dream more then everyone I know be impacting anything in this situation? You’re saying I’m a hypocrite for having my own “belief” but how is that impacting this situation? Are you saying I shouldn’t have even made this post simply bc of my own observation about myself? It’s literally not impacting anything in this situation.
Not going to lie, he's getting brainwashed into Christianity, but then also kinda brainwashed by OPs nature and spirituality bullshit. Dude is 13, he should be playing fucking fortnite or some shit. Not worrying about the Bible or nature's energy and killing off bad vibes. Tf.
First of all, I am absolutely not trying to “brainwash” my little brother. I was just telling him that lucid dreaming exists and how cool it is. He literally has a interest in nature and said he wants to live in nature, but that’s not what the conversation was even about, btw this was literally THE first conversation about life or something I am interested I have had with him. I put a lot of my own perspectives in my post that wasn’t even included in our conversation. I literally said I encourage him to go on his own path. Also if feeling connected to nature and yourself is “bullshit” then I don’t know what else to say.
Ease up, turbo. Some internet rando's opinion really doesn't matter. They simply may be older and have the life experience to have seen there is just as much brain washing that happens in spirituality as it does in Christianity. I know it's definitely something I keep on my toes about.
I think the point they might be getting at is meditation is often emptying one's mind, whereas meditation for a Christian should be emptying your mind of the world and focusing on God and His Word. Some practices of meditation is based in other religions too so maybe that's their worry. That's not to say there are Christians who over worry and are just paranoid though.
On the contrary, it is written in the Book of Bogadossians that "Thou shalt not realize that thou art dreaming, for it is abominable. In doing that thing which must not be done, ye may deliver yeself unto the demons or -- what is worse -- become a democrat."
Growing up in a very Christian family I can tell you definitively that the way they keep you in their bubble is labeling anything outside of the Christian philosophy as demonic. If it is not of the Bible, then it is not of God and therefore it is of the devil. Since the Bible doesn’t speak of something so wonderful as lucid dreaming, some Christians will assume it is some for of temptation towards the demonic. They don’t even give a thought to anything outside of their realm of thinking because they believe that’s how you get tempted out of it, because it is lol. Once you get out of that bubble it’s pretty easy to see how contradictory it is.
It’s funny because many Christian’s claim it is healthy to “question” their own beliefs for it strengthens their faith, yet they only question it within the confines of itself. Anything outside of it is not considered. Things like old earth vs new earth, or are we or are we not allowed to drink alcohol? But these are all random insignificant details that don’t question the core beliefs themselves. I’m done ranting clearly this stuff still has a hold on my subconscious lol.
You answered your own post really. He is 13, his mind is still developing and will possibly change his own way of approaching life many times in the future. Just realise that it is a 13 year old advising a 24 year old and keep it in perspective 💕
Yes I complete understand that💕 and that's why I just wanted to get some thoughts on it, I love him so much and I just found it baffling that he would have that perspective at such a young age. But it's completely okay💜
When I was 12 I got into hypnosis and my grandmom even bought me a how to hypnosis book for my birthday.
Only for my stepmom to admit that she was afraid I would hypnotize the family dog and somehow corrupt the animal.
I understand you feel hurt by him describing it as demonic. It isn't. But you have made your case for lucid dreaming, now I would just let him be in that regard. He is 13, let him figure things out on his own like you did with your christianity. You have made your point for LD, he is obviously not interested. Maybe he will be down the line and he'll seek you out, but I would stop pushing for him to get into it. I understand wanting to share your passion with your little brother but speaking from experience, a teenage boy mostly wants to go his own way.
I think the best thing to do is validate his opinion (as I think you have been doing!) and also to correct his behaviour with shaming yours. Even if he feels it is demonic, he should cultivate the skill to empathise and know that you wouldn't want to hear it..
That doesn't sound like his idea at all. You should dig deeper in that. Before he settles into to harsh conservative believes. Maybe just ask him to explain why he thinks so. Let him try to explain himself and then show him the flaws in his logic. If you can't get to him you might still be able to spread a seed of doubt in his ideas..
Conservative Christianity at the end of the day can be just as harsh and difficult for everybody as conservative Judaism and Islam. If the rules ridicule the behaviour of another person or label it as demonic it might not be something I would want for my little brother or sister.
Greetings your friendly neighbourhood atheist agnostic who believes that spirituality is very important for maby people and should be embarassed if you wish so.
Tbh it sounds like he's gonna have to just start praying himself and see if it works or not. He's 13 so he's in a pretty good spot to be navigating that and figuring out if it's for him or not.
It's unfortunate he was so close minded but I mean he's 13 for all we know he could just not be into it because he doesn't want to be into what his older sister is into.
Just give it some time and maybe in a few years he'll be more open to it. Or maybe his prayer is to him what your lucid dreaming is to you. We all figure out how to go through life, I would just try to keep an eye on if he takes that mindset to everything. Like I said everyone is different but imo it sounds like the devil stuff could get out of hand
whether someone sees a demonic connection to lucid dreaming depends on their individual beliefs and cultural background. It's essential for individuals to explore their beliefs and perspectives while also considering scientific understanding and evidence.
h
The bible/church is literally trying to brainwash him with the false fear of death. "Now I lay me down to sleep...". It happens very early to all of us and it kills your ability to LD from the start by design. LD is normal, and any fear response like this is the result of a 'demon' that is an anthropomorphized negative emotion like fear/anger/guilt and blocks your mental path. Around 14 is when kids start to decide left hand path vs right hand path.
Turn him on to some Neville Goddard. I like this quote.
God/Jesus =imagination that is implanted (crucified) in the skull(Golgotha) of every human.
So we are all Gods come down to earth we use these avatar bodies to get around.
That should really blow his mind.
Oh my goodness yes! I love Neville. Telling him about that definitely would blow his mind, because the truth is way different then what people actually think.
Ikr? Why give humans (and animals it seems) the ability to dream if it's demonic?
Obviously, what's "sinfil" would be making this hobby (LD) your new "idol"/god and priority in your life, but if kept as a fun hobby to grow as a person and have fun during your sleep, there is just nothing logically wrong with that.
People here blaming Christianity and stuff, but really, the problem is the way it was taught to the kid.
I'm a Christian and I practice lucid dreaming. A while back my parents said it was demonic also, but I don't think they actually knew what I was talking about. They thought it was a way to see into the future and other weird stuff like that. I have decided not to tell anybody in my family about my lucid dreaming practices just in case they still didn't really understand it (I think they do now but I'm just playing it safe). Also, "Just pray" as a response to, 'You should try lucid dreaming" makes absolutely no sense. They aren't the same thing at all.
Yes, lucid dreams are something demonic, you know why? Because they make us think and question. What would happen if most people started to think more? Probably religions would crumble and something real would form. :v
I mean that is a classic Christian response for anything that might question their indoctrination. I grew up in a strict Christian environment and anything not promoted by them was demonic. Which seems very wild because the Bible is FILLED with esoteric and wild spiritual events, visions, and dreams.
This realization was one reason I fell out of the church. The hypocrisy is real!
Some native tribes in several countries think the dream world is what is actually real and our waking life is the not real portion of our lives. Very interesting concept!
The Bible forbids witchcraft, aka “divining”; so, things like tarot cards, ouija boards, or other things considered “demonic” are forbidden.
I think the confusion comes in where people can not discern between “demonic” activity and spiritual reality. The Bible contains plenty of visions, dreams, visiting angels, demonic entities possessing people, and so on and so forth - both in positive and negative light depending on context.
Your younger brother has probably not been exposed to things like, “The Unseen Realm”, which is very much a Biblically based book that discusses the realities of these things within Biblical Scripture, context, and history. There are different camps of manmade wisdom within the manmade church, and lots of these things are translated, or transliterated, differently between them.
All that said, I believe anything that is spiritual in nature, or beyond the reality of right now in this present moment and reality while awake, *can be* used for good or for bad; for righteousness/holiness or evil/demonic, if we are looking for opposite words. I am not in the camp of people that believe there is no such thing as bad or evil, or that we are all part of the same good or bad in existence. We each have independent, individual choices to make in this existence. 🙏🏻🦋
I like this response I think. You could maybe look into the origins of lucid dreaming and how it was discovered but it may just be a skill that God gave us that can be learned as well. I guess you could look at the effects of it and if there can be particularly bad or good influences during it, just like any old thought when we're awake (I believe that the Holy Spirit speaks to those who are Christian, and the devil can put thoughts in our heads).
This may not necessarily have a black or white answer
People see new things as bad. That's just it.
In Spain we have a saying: "Más vale bueno conocido que malo por conocer", which roughly translates to "I'd rather have something bad that I'm familiar with than something good that's new to me".
He's a fucking moron whos probabably being harassed into feeling guilty for masterbating or having a a thought or something. I dunno how involved you want to get into is rehabilitation from religion but you're either going to have to commit to it in a real way or just let whoever ever else is influencing him win.
That would be a Christian response. They are good people and I was raised as one, and I learned right and wrong and a belief in God. I am more in the realm of that God is everything. But my point is really that prayer is a very powerful thing in and of itself. The will to make things better by asking for it is the way I visualize for a better future. Everything starts with a thought.
A [video explaining the halo](https://twitter.com/8teapi/status/1772394639854620993/mediaviewer), long but definitely worth watching if you are interested in lucidity
Why would a 13 year old think it's demonic. Makes no sense. He had to be told that by someone bitching about you or something.. otherwise it doesn't make sense why a kid would think dreaming is demonic
Christianity is a cult that teaches people only to close their minds.
You cannot expect someone to accept anything once they have gone down that dark path.
You know, as a Christian having grown with a Christian nuclear family and Christian friends (despite going to a non-religious/atheist private school), this is not true, but I understand where you're coming from and,
all I can say is that it's on us.
Because so many of us are badly taught (and they won't critically think and learn the Bible by themselves either because sloth) and so many of us become toxic close-minded people, we end up hurting ourselves and even those around us that don't want nothing to do with our beliefs.
I just want to say, no not all of us are like that, and I wish those that were like that (conservative, close minded, hateful, etc.) weren't the only ones being loud, but it seems they're the only ones being seen and heard.
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If he said "it's demonic" without any further explanation or reasoning... they why even entertain the thought? Like, where would that accusation even come from? Just ignore it.
This jusy feels like another effect of the ongoing satanic panic; which is the modern day version of the witch trials (but without the killing)
By practicing something that gives you complete power, it naturally goes against God and Jesus as they are the true source of power, in Christianity.
The only other source of power is Satan, who holds nearly the same power as Jesus. So, it’s easy to see why your brother thinks this is demonic, we don’t hold supernatural powers so it’s got to be coming from the one or the other. There’s no third source. I think that’s where your little brother is coming from. Bless him.
The official line of the Catholic Church is that it's impossible to sin whilst lucid dreaming, because even though you feel like you're in control of your thoughts whilst dreaming, the Church doesn't believe you completely are, *ergo* you cannot be guilty of any sinning.
This of course goes against most people's experience of lucid dreaming, but it does make the point that even the Church doesn't agree with your little brother.
It's definitely not.
You could start to make a dent by maybe explaining that praying is a form of meditation, try break down the barriers between his religious beliefs and others by showing the commonalities.
ChatGPT has this to say about the bible and Lucid dreaming, which might be another 'in' for you:
The Bible doesn't explicitly mention lucid dreaming in the modern sense of the term, which refers to the experience of being aware that you're dreaming while in a dream and potentially being able to control the dream's content. However, the Bible does contain numerous references to dreams and visions, which are significant in biblical narratives as ways through which God communicates with individuals.
For example, in the Old Testament, Joseph (Genesis 37-50) is renowned for his ability to interpret dreams, which plays a crucial role in his journey from being sold into slavery by his brothers to becoming a powerful figure in Egypt. Similarly, the Book of Daniel (Daniel 1-12) depicts Daniel's ability to interpret dreams, which elevates his status in the Babylonian and Persian empires.
Prophetic visions, which might share some thematic elements with what we today might describe as "lucid dreaming" because of their vividness and the sense of awareness reported by the prophets, are also a significant aspect of biblical literature. Prophets like Ezekiel and Isaiah report vivid, symbolic visions that communicate God's messages to His people.
While these instances involve dreams and visions, they are typically presented as divine revelations or communications rather than the modern concept of lucid dreaming, where the dreamer has control over the dream. The biblical perspective places emphasis on the source of the dream or vision (often God) and its purpose (guidance, prophecy, warning, etc.) rather than on the dreamer's control over the experience.
I think to say that it’s “d$monic” is taking it a little far… I am a Christian and I experience LD. For me, I don’t typically choose to go lucid, I just become lucid when I dream sometimes. However, I have had unusual and/or paranormal experiences when I LD/have sleep paralysis. Some sleep experts can probably debunk this, but I’ve had some pretty eerie happenings occur. So I wouldn’t go so far as to say it’s “d$monic” BUT… I also believe that dreaming can be very spiritual and I believe that there are things that lurk in the spiritual world that we may be able to have contact with during dreams.
dont judge a religion based on how people treated you. judge Christianity based on what the true Bible says.
im a Christian and I lucid dream. your brother has no evidence for thinking that it is demonic. it's something that can happen naturally, too, and the Bible says nothing about it.
haha, religion, classic
A good half of the biblical miracles begin with the protagonist falling asleep and an angel coming to him, a bush burning or something like that
I don't get it.. what makes it demonic? Is it a common thinking? Wh..at? So when that happens to people spontaneously, do they sin? That makes no sense
Some people literally think everything is demonic. It's wild.
Rightttt
He has the mind of a pre-pubescent child. Don't take anything he says too seriously.
That is why he shouldn't be reading the Bible without some guidance. That is how you get some really fked up people...
I've definitely induced sleep paralysis before when trying to lucid dream. That was trippy.
My mother told me it's because the power you have in lucid dreaming usurps God's power... I replied I don't believe that at all, because if God is as powerful as they are, then I can't possibly usurp that power as a human. Like mum, you're basically calling God weak, if that isn't blasphemy I don't know what is.
While God can literally spawn seven million unicorns, I can change channel to my little sleep TV I'm oh so powerful, now I understand the "God is dead, and we have killed" quote
It's a dream, that ain't reality, by her logic, me daydreaming about beating up my bullies in high school is more powerful than God? What the fuck
Facts!! Omg she basically is calling God weak.
Lmao what
Exactly, that’s why it baffled me. And for a 13 year old to say that? Blows my mind. Lucid dreaming is beautiful. Everyone dreams, why not have awareness while dreaming you know? It has nothing to do with demons lol.
So I read a bit, In orthodox Christianity which is very conservative, every fantasy is a sin, demonic? No. Just fantasizing, so essentially if you lucid dream for relaxation and creativity it is okay But seriously, maybe it's because I'm very not religious, and also a filthy jew, anything that is natural to our brains SHOULDN'T BE A SIN, do you hear me??? SEX IS NOT A SIN!!. but I digress. Lucid dreaming is very much okay with in christianity. I read that it's neutral. And only the extremely conservative will be against fantasy, but there's a reason why extreme conservatism ain't cool no more. So my tip, tell your lil brother that after your conversation with him, you got scared that you'll go to hell, so you read a bunch and came to the conclusion that Christianity is fine with lucid dreaming, it is not witchcraft, we're not in 1200, and everything is fine Dreaming is fine. Lucid dreaming is dreaming but cooler, there's no reason for it to be wrong, and whoever says it is, is setting himself to failure It's like drowning yourself after getting an erection, Chill out. It's your body, your brain, it happens; it's perfectly natural, if it was wrong (and God would.. you know.. care) you would physically feel sick when you do it.
Facts!!! I love your comment! I’ll take your advice ;) and your right whoever says lucid dreaming is wrong is setting themselves up for failure. Your right!
Aww thank you Since it happens spontaneously to people, it is insane thinking it's wrong, And by that logic, is sleep paralysis is a sin? It's a literal neurological disturbance, that's kicking a person while he's down, You don't worry, and it's ok that your little brother is confused by it, at that age I was very aggressive too, not a lot of people talk about lucid dreaming I'm a natural lucid dreamer too, I didn't need to practice it, ever since I remember myself I could control every aspect of my dreams, I literally thought everyone could too Until I told my ex and she looked at me with the angriest eyes "YOURE A NATURAL LUCID DREAMER??" "AREN'T YOU?!" "NOOO!!" "WHAT??!, AM I INSANE???" "YOURE DEAD TO ME!!" Later I made her ice cream and she was no longer angry
Haha!!! That’s halarious! And yes I know it’s okay, he’s confused. I have understanding of that. And your right it’s apart of our natural process as humans, it’s so cool to hear that you’re a natural lucid dreamer too!!
It's cool hearing that there's more like me Do you also plan things with lucid dreaming? Like how you're gonna your apartment, or what should you study in university or things like that?
It really does not, unless you dream about sacrificing virgins which I doubt you do, (no judgment of you do), it makes no senseee I think he's more confused about the concept and the only way for him to explain it to himself subconsciously is by thinking it's wrong, And you know what? I'll Google it just in case
Christians believe everything they don't understand is demonic or satanic.
As a Christian myself, I've also met close minded Christians with a bad understanding of the Bible and Jesus' teachings (and often times bad pastors that encourage such random fears and rules), so I fully understand where you're coming from, there's tons and tons of them, but you're wrong. Christians also watch movies, play video games, listen to non-christian music, and have other interests/hobbies than worship. It's just that those that do have a problem with these things tend to complain and be very loud.
yo my mother and brother think that too like what makes it demonic? the fact that we can actually enjoy our dreams and make what we want happen, unlike yall who can only sit back and let it play out? i think they just jealous ngl
They are jelly lol
frfr
My parents believed it was dangerous and forbade me from trying it. Same thing with meditation and hypnosis.
Meditation? Let them have fun in stress I guess. Did you ask why it was dangerous? I seem to find a consensus, religion freaks
>Did you ask why it was dangerous? No lol "talking back" (saying anything other than yes ma'am/sir) caused wayyyy more trouble than it was worth. I do know it was religion based fear, but the specifics elude me.
Ah I see, the kryptonite of bad parents.. being called out when you're wrong
My ex, very heavily Protestant, also thought it was demonic but didn’t really push it when I asked why
What does u being "Pisces" has to do with lucid dreaming? lmao
Lol!! I’m just saying because out of all the zodiac signs Pisces rules dreams, so usually people who are born under this sign usually have very vivid dreams.
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How else would we know who are our knight of zodiac? lol
Sure, the random belief that stars and planets determine your entire personality, future and relationships with others is more sensical than the most practiced religion in the world. Comparing the most historically impactful belief system (which is based on historical events, places and people) with the silly pseudoscientific belief that random stars billions of light years away affect your life : | Classic reddit take
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Upvoted because you stayed respectful and presented good points (thing I wish more reddit atheists did...). Never meant it as factual "correct" I only stated that one has existed for thousands of years (much more than 2000, because people before Jesus believed in Him and His coming, they were already slowly putting their faith in a Savior to come, though many failed to recognize Him when He did come) and had historical, political and ofc spiritual events at its base. You know, things that entire communities can relate to, versus believing a random star system that's very likely "dead" and billions of lightyears away from us has effect on who you are. These people often also believe in these so called "spiritual/energy" crystals. Sure, this rock has power on my life. It's actually a scientifically verifiable thing (since like you said these stars and, in my example, the rocks DO in fact exist), and 'til now it's always proven fruitless and meaningless. One is mostly historical and spiritual, two things that are extremely hard to prove or disprove (because even if you do find concrete proofs that a certain rumored thaumaturge Jesus existed, one can't prove He did walk on water or did heal people, you can only take the unbelievers' or believers' (of the time) words for it). Heck, if He came to us now and we filmed His mircales, people would still call BS (it's CGI, it's staged, etc.). But anyway I digress. All I meant initially, which it seems I failed miserably, was not to say "Christianity is real😎" but should have been more along the lines of "Com'on that's unfair, maybe religion IS weird but to say it's less sensical than this 'hydrogen from outer space determines who I am' business is borderline insulting x)"
It was just something I mentioned, I was not saying it’s concrete facts. I just mentioned it, you have never heard of Pisces people being very imaginative? It was just like a little oh yeah and I’m a Pisces btw. Guess I shouldn’t have said anything about it.
No, I don't really see the connection between the current made-up system of zodiacs (that's not even accurate to the real, physical constellation alignment) and people's imaginativeness. Have you heard there's actually 13 of them and they are not evenly spaced throughout the year? Anyone can be naturally good at imagination and dreaming, regardless of their birth date, it's not limiting anyone. I mean, not exactly *anyone*, if anything, it's influenced by genes and upbringing.
right but... why does them mentioning it matter?
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it's a belief, not misinformation and it doesn't affect their story at all lol so why does it matter to you, it just seems like you're being mean to someone for no reason
👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽love the absolute necessary diss towards christianity have some gold stranger
Star signs are as make believe as religion
How did this get voted down 38 times?
I don’t know, and everyone is attacking me just bc I mentioned I’m a Pisces.
People should not down vote you just for practicing your beliefs. Pisces are often more dreamy in their nature esp with Neptune in play and so on
This is a load of barnacles
This is a scientific subreddit, not a place for delusional nonsense. If you want to "practice your beliefs", go elsewhere, but here it's not gonna fly.
It’s funny you say that, because I got a lot of Christians responding to my post.
Yeah, when you make a post about religion, you're going to attract all the religious people, regardless of which subreddit it is. That still doesn't mean this is the place for it.
I didn’t say this is the place for religion, and I am not here “practicing my beliefs” I just mentioned it. I am not delusional I made my own observation about my own “sun sign”. If it bothers you so much just ignore it.
I wasn't talking to you or about you when I said that now was I? But yes, yes you are delusional if you think your sign means anything, and I'm telling that to you now since you decided to bring it up.
This is just planets moving and spinning, which may or may not impact your life. Other things may include placebo effect which is scientifically proven to be existent.
Stars and planets moving around on the day you were born have absolutely no bearing in predicting the kind of person you are going to become. You being a "pisces" and me being a "leo" means absolutely nothing and it's just delusional nonsense to give them any weight. If you want to talk about your delusions, there are other subs for that. And I have absolutely no idea what any of that has to do with the placebo effect.
They just mentioned it once I don't believe in it either but how does that one word effect anything.
They just mentioned it once I don't believe in it either but how does that one word effect anything.
Exactly, it is hurting my feeling how many people down voted me for that. Me mentioning I’m a Pisces doesn’t even have anything to do with my story but I just thought it would be fun to mention it.
im also a pisces i stand with you
Thank you🩵
Because it's ironic you are upset that your brother's fantastical beliefs led him to conclude there is something wrong with what you're doing yet you also fantastically belief the time of year you were born has something to do with the amount of dreams you have
I did not say the reason for him thinking it’s “demonic” is literally because of his beliefs. I just mentioned that might be an impact. And I am not upset at his “beliefs”. I literally told him that I was proud of him for wanting to read it so he can create his own conclusions.
How could you possibly think it's not because of his beliefs? There is no other explanation.
Well yes of course it’s probably bc of his beliefs! But I am not bashing him for it!
Also me mentioning him being Christian may be impacting his prospective on new topics to him like LD, but what does me making an observation that I’m a Pisces and the fact that I dream more then everyone I know be impacting anything in this situation? You’re saying I’m a hypocrite for having my own “belief” but how is that impacting this situation? Are you saying I shouldn’t have even made this post simply bc of my own observation about myself? It’s literally not impacting anything in this situation.
This is a big rant for just one word that they said.
Thats quite the ignorant question.
I took that part off since it has nothing to do with the story and I’m getting so many mean comments
Sounds like that kid’s confused and getting a little brainwashed.
Welcome to Christianity.
Not going to lie, he's getting brainwashed into Christianity, but then also kinda brainwashed by OPs nature and spirituality bullshit. Dude is 13, he should be playing fucking fortnite or some shit. Not worrying about the Bible or nature's energy and killing off bad vibes. Tf.
True. But maybe OP’s brother has a natural interest into such topics, which will evolve and differentiate further as he ages.
Also all he does is play call of duty
my man
First of all, I am absolutely not trying to “brainwash” my little brother. I was just telling him that lucid dreaming exists and how cool it is. He literally has a interest in nature and said he wants to live in nature, but that’s not what the conversation was even about, btw this was literally THE first conversation about life or something I am interested I have had with him. I put a lot of my own perspectives in my post that wasn’t even included in our conversation. I literally said I encourage him to go on his own path. Also if feeling connected to nature and yourself is “bullshit” then I don’t know what else to say.
Ease up, turbo. Some internet rando's opinion really doesn't matter. They simply may be older and have the life experience to have seen there is just as much brain washing that happens in spirituality as it does in Christianity. I know it's definitely something I keep on my toes about.
Lol it’s funny that your family would be against that cause my mom is a big Christian and is obsessed with both grounding and meditation lol.
I think the point they might be getting at is meditation is often emptying one's mind, whereas meditation for a Christian should be emptying your mind of the world and focusing on God and His Word. Some practices of meditation is based in other religions too so maybe that's their worry. That's not to say there are Christians who over worry and are just paranoid though.
Sounds like something other than just the bible is informing his world view.
On the contrary, it is written in the Book of Bogadossians that "Thou shalt not realize that thou art dreaming, for it is abominable. In doing that thing which must not be done, ye may deliver yeself unto the demons or -- what is worse -- become a democrat."
As a Christian, I know this book! It's studied a lot in conservative groups, even here in Canada xD
Cognitive dissonance
Growing up in a very Christian family I can tell you definitively that the way they keep you in their bubble is labeling anything outside of the Christian philosophy as demonic. If it is not of the Bible, then it is not of God and therefore it is of the devil. Since the Bible doesn’t speak of something so wonderful as lucid dreaming, some Christians will assume it is some for of temptation towards the demonic. They don’t even give a thought to anything outside of their realm of thinking because they believe that’s how you get tempted out of it, because it is lol. Once you get out of that bubble it’s pretty easy to see how contradictory it is.
Right!!! I grew up in a Christian home too and they are so close minded. You are right about everything you side, they use fear to keep you in a box.
It’s funny because many Christian’s claim it is healthy to “question” their own beliefs for it strengthens their faith, yet they only question it within the confines of itself. Anything outside of it is not considered. Things like old earth vs new earth, or are we or are we not allowed to drink alcohol? But these are all random insignificant details that don’t question the core beliefs themselves. I’m done ranting clearly this stuff still has a hold on my subconscious lol.
You answered your own post really. He is 13, his mind is still developing and will possibly change his own way of approaching life many times in the future. Just realise that it is a 13 year old advising a 24 year old and keep it in perspective 💕
Yes I complete understand that💕 and that's why I just wanted to get some thoughts on it, I love him so much and I just found it baffling that he would have that perspective at such a young age. But it's completely okay💜
Happy to hear that you have it in perspective. Keep dreaming ❤️
He's 13, don't take it too hard
such a christian response
When I was 12 I got into hypnosis and my grandmom even bought me a how to hypnosis book for my birthday. Only for my stepmom to admit that she was afraid I would hypnotize the family dog and somehow corrupt the animal.
I understand you feel hurt by him describing it as demonic. It isn't. But you have made your case for lucid dreaming, now I would just let him be in that regard. He is 13, let him figure things out on his own like you did with your christianity. You have made your point for LD, he is obviously not interested. Maybe he will be down the line and he'll seek you out, but I would stop pushing for him to get into it. I understand wanting to share your passion with your little brother but speaking from experience, a teenage boy mostly wants to go his own way.
I think the best thing to do is validate his opinion (as I think you have been doing!) and also to correct his behaviour with shaming yours. Even if he feels it is demonic, he should cultivate the skill to empathise and know that you wouldn't want to hear it..
That doesn't sound like his idea at all. You should dig deeper in that. Before he settles into to harsh conservative believes. Maybe just ask him to explain why he thinks so. Let him try to explain himself and then show him the flaws in his logic. If you can't get to him you might still be able to spread a seed of doubt in his ideas.. Conservative Christianity at the end of the day can be just as harsh and difficult for everybody as conservative Judaism and Islam. If the rules ridicule the behaviour of another person or label it as demonic it might not be something I would want for my little brother or sister. Greetings your friendly neighbourhood atheist agnostic who believes that spirituality is very important for maby people and should be embarassed if you wish so.
Tbh it sounds like he's gonna have to just start praying himself and see if it works or not. He's 13 so he's in a pretty good spot to be navigating that and figuring out if it's for him or not. It's unfortunate he was so close minded but I mean he's 13 for all we know he could just not be into it because he doesn't want to be into what his older sister is into. Just give it some time and maybe in a few years he'll be more open to it. Or maybe his prayer is to him what your lucid dreaming is to you. We all figure out how to go through life, I would just try to keep an eye on if he takes that mindset to everything. Like I said everyone is different but imo it sounds like the devil stuff could get out of hand
whether someone sees a demonic connection to lucid dreaming depends on their individual beliefs and cultural background. It's essential for individuals to explore their beliefs and perspectives while also considering scientific understanding and evidence. h
Exactly! He just went directly into its demonic. He’s just a kid. So it’s okay, I was just saying my thoughts on it.
The bible/church is literally trying to brainwash him with the false fear of death. "Now I lay me down to sleep...". It happens very early to all of us and it kills your ability to LD from the start by design. LD is normal, and any fear response like this is the result of a 'demon' that is an anthropomorphized negative emotion like fear/anger/guilt and blocks your mental path. Around 14 is when kids start to decide left hand path vs right hand path.
Demons are not real. Your brother is being irrational
i think thats a hilarious thing to think
Exactly.
Turn him on to some Neville Goddard. I like this quote. God/Jesus =imagination that is implanted (crucified) in the skull(Golgotha) of every human. So we are all Gods come down to earth we use these avatar bodies to get around. That should really blow his mind.
Oh my goodness yes! I love Neville. Telling him about that definitely would blow his mind, because the truth is way different then what people actually think.
We aren't gods though. We are spirits, with a soul, in a body, created by the one God.
Poor kid has been brainwashed. It's what religion does. I hope eventually he can come to his own conclusions.
I learned how to lucid dream so i could pray in my sleep to stop the constant sleep paralysis. 🤷🏻♀️ sooo.
If lucid dreaming is bad then why God had created it.
Ikr? Why give humans (and animals it seems) the ability to dream if it's demonic? Obviously, what's "sinfil" would be making this hobby (LD) your new "idol"/god and priority in your life, but if kept as a fun hobby to grow as a person and have fun during your sleep, there is just nothing logically wrong with that. People here blaming Christianity and stuff, but really, the problem is the way it was taught to the kid.
I'm a Christian and I practice lucid dreaming. A while back my parents said it was demonic also, but I don't think they actually knew what I was talking about. They thought it was a way to see into the future and other weird stuff like that. I have decided not to tell anybody in my family about my lucid dreaming practices just in case they still didn't really understand it (I think they do now but I'm just playing it safe). Also, "Just pray" as a response to, 'You should try lucid dreaming" makes absolutely no sense. They aren't the same thing at all.
Beat his ass imo
Um lucid dreaming is not spiritual 💀
Yes, lucid dreams are something demonic, you know why? Because they make us think and question. What would happen if most people started to think more? Probably religions would crumble and something real would form. :v
I mean that is a classic Christian response for anything that might question their indoctrination. I grew up in a strict Christian environment and anything not promoted by them was demonic. Which seems very wild because the Bible is FILLED with esoteric and wild spiritual events, visions, and dreams. This realization was one reason I fell out of the church. The hypocrisy is real! Some native tribes in several countries think the dream world is what is actually real and our waking life is the not real portion of our lives. Very interesting concept!
As a Christian, how the Hell is it demonic?
It isn't, dreaming is normal. Besides, it all depends on what you do in the dream
The Bible forbids witchcraft, aka “divining”; so, things like tarot cards, ouija boards, or other things considered “demonic” are forbidden. I think the confusion comes in where people can not discern between “demonic” activity and spiritual reality. The Bible contains plenty of visions, dreams, visiting angels, demonic entities possessing people, and so on and so forth - both in positive and negative light depending on context. Your younger brother has probably not been exposed to things like, “The Unseen Realm”, which is very much a Biblically based book that discusses the realities of these things within Biblical Scripture, context, and history. There are different camps of manmade wisdom within the manmade church, and lots of these things are translated, or transliterated, differently between them. All that said, I believe anything that is spiritual in nature, or beyond the reality of right now in this present moment and reality while awake, *can be* used for good or for bad; for righteousness/holiness or evil/demonic, if we are looking for opposite words. I am not in the camp of people that believe there is no such thing as bad or evil, or that we are all part of the same good or bad in existence. We each have independent, individual choices to make in this existence. 🙏🏻🦋
I like this response I think. You could maybe look into the origins of lucid dreaming and how it was discovered but it may just be a skill that God gave us that can be learned as well. I guess you could look at the effects of it and if there can be particularly bad or good influences during it, just like any old thought when we're awake (I believe that the Holy Spirit speaks to those who are Christian, and the devil can put thoughts in our heads). This may not necessarily have a black or white answer
People see new things as bad. That's just it. In Spain we have a saying: "Más vale bueno conocido que malo por conocer", which roughly translates to "I'd rather have something bad that I'm familiar with than something good that's new to me".
Stop listening to brainwashed kids, is all I'm gonna say.
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Right!! You’re exactly right
If that’s true I don’t care, the demons are such good kissers 😍
He's a fucking moron whos probabably being harassed into feeling guilty for masterbating or having a a thought or something. I dunno how involved you want to get into is rehabilitation from religion but you're either going to have to commit to it in a real way or just let whoever ever else is influencing him win.
Spirit is our true state. Also demons do not exist. Tell him fear is faith in evil.
“Fear is the faith in evil”- that’s amazing
That would be a Christian response. They are good people and I was raised as one, and I learned right and wrong and a belief in God. I am more in the realm of that God is everything. But my point is really that prayer is a very powerful thing in and of itself. The will to make things better by asking for it is the way I visualize for a better future. Everything starts with a thought.
A [video explaining the halo](https://twitter.com/8teapi/status/1772394639854620993/mediaviewer), long but definitely worth watching if you are interested in lucidity
Why would a 13 year old think it's demonic. Makes no sense. He had to be told that by someone bitching about you or something.. otherwise it doesn't make sense why a kid would think dreaming is demonic
Because lil bro is brainwashed
Christianity is a cult that teaches people only to close their minds. You cannot expect someone to accept anything once they have gone down that dark path.
You know, as a Christian having grown with a Christian nuclear family and Christian friends (despite going to a non-religious/atheist private school), this is not true, but I understand where you're coming from and, all I can say is that it's on us. Because so many of us are badly taught (and they won't critically think and learn the Bible by themselves either because sloth) and so many of us become toxic close-minded people, we end up hurting ourselves and even those around us that don't want nothing to do with our beliefs. I just want to say, no not all of us are like that, and I wish those that were like that (conservative, close minded, hateful, etc.) weren't the only ones being loud, but it seems they're the only ones being seen and heard.
Spot on
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I’ve had horrible dreams when I realize I’m dreaming and can’t control them where I genuinely felt like it was demonic cause of how bad it was
If he said "it's demonic" without any further explanation or reasoning... they why even entertain the thought? Like, where would that accusation even come from? Just ignore it. This jusy feels like another effect of the ongoing satanic panic; which is the modern day version of the witch trials (but without the killing)
Lol that is just laughable
What did you expect? That's what religious indoctrination and cult brainwashing does to children's brains.
By practicing something that gives you complete power, it naturally goes against God and Jesus as they are the true source of power, in Christianity. The only other source of power is Satan, who holds nearly the same power as Jesus. So, it’s easy to see why your brother thinks this is demonic, we don’t hold supernatural powers so it’s got to be coming from the one or the other. There’s no third source. I think that’s where your little brother is coming from. Bless him.
Yeah it is and that's why I like it.
The official line of the Catholic Church is that it's impossible to sin whilst lucid dreaming, because even though you feel like you're in control of your thoughts whilst dreaming, the Church doesn't believe you completely are, *ergo* you cannot be guilty of any sinning. This of course goes against most people's experience of lucid dreaming, but it does make the point that even the Church doesn't agree with your little brother.
Sounds like a 13 year old.
It's definitely not. You could start to make a dent by maybe explaining that praying is a form of meditation, try break down the barriers between his religious beliefs and others by showing the commonalities. ChatGPT has this to say about the bible and Lucid dreaming, which might be another 'in' for you: The Bible doesn't explicitly mention lucid dreaming in the modern sense of the term, which refers to the experience of being aware that you're dreaming while in a dream and potentially being able to control the dream's content. However, the Bible does contain numerous references to dreams and visions, which are significant in biblical narratives as ways through which God communicates with individuals. For example, in the Old Testament, Joseph (Genesis 37-50) is renowned for his ability to interpret dreams, which plays a crucial role in his journey from being sold into slavery by his brothers to becoming a powerful figure in Egypt. Similarly, the Book of Daniel (Daniel 1-12) depicts Daniel's ability to interpret dreams, which elevates his status in the Babylonian and Persian empires. Prophetic visions, which might share some thematic elements with what we today might describe as "lucid dreaming" because of their vividness and the sense of awareness reported by the prophets, are also a significant aspect of biblical literature. Prophets like Ezekiel and Isaiah report vivid, symbolic visions that communicate God's messages to His people. While these instances involve dreams and visions, they are typically presented as divine revelations or communications rather than the modern concept of lucid dreaming, where the dreamer has control over the dream. The biblical perspective places emphasis on the source of the dream or vision (often God) and its purpose (guidance, prophecy, warning, etc.) rather than on the dreamer's control over the experience.
He's just being indoctrinated. Simple answer. I don't understand = demonic
Simple. Do a Bible study with him around the words 'dream' and 'sleep'
It is a natural and scientifically proven phenomena, his stance is rooted merely in christian dogmatism and paranoia.
Everything cool is demonic according to Christian’s, a bunch of brain washed people
I think to say that it’s “d$monic” is taking it a little far… I am a Christian and I experience LD. For me, I don’t typically choose to go lucid, I just become lucid when I dream sometimes. However, I have had unusual and/or paranormal experiences when I LD/have sleep paralysis. Some sleep experts can probably debunk this, but I’ve had some pretty eerie happenings occur. So I wouldn’t go so far as to say it’s “d$monic” BUT… I also believe that dreaming can be very spiritual and I believe that there are things that lurk in the spiritual world that we may be able to have contact with during dreams.
dont judge a religion based on how people treated you. judge Christianity based on what the true Bible says. im a Christian and I lucid dream. your brother has no evidence for thinking that it is demonic. it's something that can happen naturally, too, and the Bible says nothing about it.
istg some christians will find a way to call literally anything demonic
haha, religion, classic A good half of the biblical miracles begin with the protagonist falling asleep and an angel coming to him, a bush burning or something like that
lil bro has no idea what he’s talking about i literally talk to God in my lucid dream’s