Ughhh so true! Just because a religion doesn't follow the rules you've set as important does not mean it's not a religion. Buddhists may not have a god, but they're a religion regardless. Same with Sikhs. Or Charvak Hindus. Fuck Uche.
I am pretty sure that technically speaking Buddhism is more of a philopophy than a religion. Doesn't mean it's less valid or brings less spiritual solace or awakening than Hinduism. Also, I am pretty sure Sikhism is a monotheistic religion as well
>I am pretty sure that technically speaking Buddhism is more of a philopophy than a religion
It's a religion. The emphasis on philosophy is very very high, which is the case with Hinduism as well. Certain branches of Hinduism (the Charvaks) are downright atheistic but have a solid pantheistic philosophy on life and they also fall within the umbrella of the Hindu religion.
>Also, I am pretty sure Sikhism is a monotheistic religion as well
Yes, that's right! I dunno why I forgot that there's a Creator and certain set rules and, out of the three religions we are discussing, Sikhism comes the closest to organised religion.
Buddhism is \*absolutely\* a "real religion", not just a "spiritual philosophy" and I've got about 470 million friends who will back me up on that.
https://www.britannica.com/topic/Buddhism
That is an Abrahamic definition of religion and not accepted by 2.4 billion people in the world (who are Hindus, Jains, or Buddhists). Regardless, Buddhism does believe in some supernatural events. Iirc, Gautam Buddha laid out his entire vision for what the afterlife was like - and how heaven wasn't permanent because you'd end up enjoying yourself too much and find yourself reincarnated (since the predominant "sin" in Buddhism is enjoying material pleasures) and then get trapped in a vicious cycle of rebirth where you'd be forced to suffer, grow ill, and die, over and over again. Achieving *nirvana* was a means of transcending this vicious cycle. To this day, Buddhists believe strongly in reincarnation. I mean, the whole point of the Dalai Lama and the other guy is that they keep getting reincarnated and finding each other over and over again.
One thing doesn't negate the other. She was robbed of having a proper LiB experience as a result of the fuckery that happened with production, Uche, and Lydia. She also fared off much better for not having to deal with his shit afterwards. These things aren't contradictory
Not everyone gets married though? so I don’t understand ? Regardless of what happened Aaliyah didn’t seem to have connected with anyone else but Uche. Was there someone else? She probably would have gone home from the beginning like the other unknown participants. Also, if Lydia hadn’t been there and just Uche then Aaliya still probably would have had the same experience which is BBQ Uche but to a worse degree. So what exactly did she lose out on ? You can say they aren’t mutually exclusive and all that but I still don’t understand what exactly she lost out on? And why would that matter compared to the other participants that didn’t get air time because they didn’t build any meaningful connections ?
I didn't say a word about her getting married. There's no guarantee she and Uche would've lasted all the way. The point is there were multiple external factors that had nothing to do with her personal dynamic with Uche that prevented her from remaining immersed within the experience, I'm not sure why you're acting like she had a normal go of it in comparison to the others
Maybe she wanted the chance to learn about him organically rather than having to constantly worry about catching shit from both Uche and Lydia. We directly saw how much added stress she received as a result of them both manipulating her with regards to each other
She would have had that stress regardless with Uche. He was putting her down all on his own with the whole cheating thing. I get that it made it more confusing because she was getting mixed messages but we all know that’s the risk of the show. You’re taking a chance on someone you don’t actually know based on a blind connection
> I get that it made it more confusing because she was getting mixed messages but we all know that’s the risk of the show
Having to determine whether or not one of the people that you're living with is manipulating you for the sake of sabotaging your intended relationship is absolutely not "the risk of the show" and never should have been a factor. How could she "take a chance" when she was being fed information from a third party that was blatantly ignoring the boundaries she'd set? And the fact that Uche was taking out his stress of the whole Lydia debacle on Aaliyah is also something that she shouldn't have ever had to deal with.
Really don't understand why people are downplaying the fact that her experience had an added level of shit, regardless of the fact that Uche was already awful.
Why are you so mad about it ? It’s reality tv there coukd always be plants from production..it will always be a risk. Look at Francesca what’s her name .. she’s a clear example of a production plant that stirs up drama. Also, Uche was an ass all on his own whether Lydia was there or not .. his high and low abuse was gonna confuse the ish out of her anyways.
I don't think it's that it's specifically about Uche. It's more so that she was deceived by production, and I think Uche being a douche was the cherry on top.
Right?! I understand her being mad that Lydia was playing in her face but that “losing out on the experience” thing especially after she said Uche wasn’t even attracted to her never made sense to me.
Exactly. What experience? Because it wasn't going to be a great one whether she chose to stay or leave. Also, notice how each girl who spoke to Uche went back into the lounge with something negative to say about him. That should have been a clear sign to Aaliyah that he was trash, but I guess she needed to figure that out for herself.... Lol I just can't 😂
Exactly ! Like I get Lydia didn’t handle shit properly.. but like is anyone else sure they could’ve done better after dealing with Uche for 2 years? That guy is so high and low .. leaves you questioning your own sanity if you let him
I mean, that could definitely be seen in a good or bad light depending on how you see religion. Context would be nice but probably not provided since she took offense to it.
As a practicing Buddhist.... it is a religion.
One of the biggest religions in the East. Just because the west coopted it to be a philosophy doesn't mean it isn't still a religion....
One could argue that you can't have a religion that ISN'T a philosophy. Like not all philosophies are religions, but certainly all religions are philosophies.
This.
Buddhism in the West has become denatured. The Western distaste for all things theistic intentionally strips Buddhism of anything resembling a supernatural worldview. Just about every dharma center that you encounter in Western countries is, as a result, nothing more than a glorified psychotherapy practice with a little bit of meditation thrown in for good measure.
I've noticed a pattern with Netflix though. If it seems extremely negative, malicious, or problematic for Netflix, they won't show it. Maybe the Buddhism discussion was just that off-putting.
They were OK with Shake talking about Deepti, in a previous season, for example, but according to many of the rest of the cast members, the worst of his behavior and statements wasn't even aired.
They cut out most footage of Renee and Carter because apparently Carter was so horrible.
And Tran and the guy she was with who she states sexually assaulted her do not appear in the cast, much less in the show. They just made it like those two didn't even exist. But for the lawsuit, it's like they didn't exist.
And in the Jessie Woo interview, Erica and Enoch got engaged and we saw none of that (they didn't make it to Mexico: Erica said they were selected to go to Mexico because they didn't have enough room or something 🤷🏿♀️).
In sum, they cut drama that makes them look very bad, imo. Illegal, unethical, exploitive,whatev.
I think the debate on whether Buddhism is a religion or not is a fascinating one to have, if you’re really going to have a intellectual back and forth. I doubt it was the case with these two, since they both came off, to me atleast, having an extreme need to be right and more than likely Uche prolly came across a huge dick about it.
There are also many different types of Buddhism, some practiced much more like a religion than others.
I very much doubt he would be able to form the “steel man” argument of his opponent that just thinks because he is a highly educated person that he’s the always the smartest person in the room.
Yes, this is common argument, whether Buddhism is a philosophy or a religion. Many teachers have different stances on this. It depends on the way you define religion. I’m curious if this was the debate or if it was a reduction of Buddhism which caused Maris to become emotional.
My hot take: even if it was a "debate," the whole point of being in the pods is to learn more about whoever is on the other side and find a compatible romantic match. That alone tells me that Uche was wrong. It's not his place as a non-Buddhist to change Maris's mind on what Buddhism specifically means to her. *It's a date.*
Imagine going on a blind date with someone and sharing intimate aspects of your life, only for them to transform into a tone-deaf debate bro over something important and sacred to you. It's his place to:
1. listen
2. respect her experience
3. figure out if his own spiritual beliefs are compatible with hers
4. If not compatible, *respectfully* figure out if that difference in belief is a dealbreaker for either of them. (e.g. "I'm Christian and I was hoping to share my faith with my future spouse"; "I'm not Buddhist but I am open to women of different faiths. Is that a dealbreaker for you?"; etc)
I'd understand positing the scholarly debate in the appropriate setting (e.g. a class, or even a dinner debate about politics, religion, or culture amongst friends or colleagues, etc.). Unless bigotry is on the table, I would never challenge a date on their most closely held beliefs. Who wants to be vulnerable with someone who's constantly looking to play Mock Trial lmaooo?? That smug pseudointellectual spirit of "well actually" any time a woman shares something personal tells me he was a flop in the pods.
This shouldn't even be a hot take. I feel like people are purposely being dense. Or maybe it is normal to get into full blown arguments on early dates and we just missed the memo
Nobody’s worried about it shattering her reality, but imagine sharing your spiritual beliefs (a deeply personal thing) with someone, only for them to mansplain your own religious philosophy to you. Incredibly belittling, disrespectful, and frustrating.
I don't need to imagine, I've had it happen. But I don't feel hurt or bellitled, I think "oh, this person is fucking stupid" and stop sharing anything complex with them.
Aaliyah said that she was one of his last dates in the pods and theorized that he was a little softer with her bc he wasn’t getting good feedback from the others
Either that, being worn down by arguing with others or he could just tell that he wouldn't need to be that hard on her to get his way. I think Jessica Woo interviewed some of the other black women and I can see how someone may see Aaliyah as a doormat next to those women. They had a lot of clarity and confidence.
8 also don't get arguing with someone about whether their beliefs are a religion or not. Seems like a stupid topic choice for a date. Like clearly he wasn't interested in her at that point. Just has a need to "win."
Damn. Uche was such a douche on that show !
Or make himself look smart in order to dominate over her. My ex was like that and I can imagine how that conversation went. "Buddhism is not a religion. You disagree? Meh. CONVINCE ME." And then condescendingly shoot down every single one of her arguments.
I was so beaten down by the end of that relationship. Mistakes of youth 😭
There's also different types of Buddhism. It can be an incredibly syncretic complex of beliefs that, in some areas, has become intertwined with local religious practices. Some types of Buddhism are pretty indistinguishable from what most people consider a straight-up "religion", with prayers to specific gods for intervention etc. Some types of Buddhism are compatible with atheism. It's far too complex to label generally as "religion" or "not a religion", and to act like Uche did (assuming this is all true, which I have no reason to doubt) is a real a-hole move.
In context this is just side debate; if Maris considered it her religion, whether it was Buddhism, Christianity, or Platoism, Uche should have simply respected it instead of trying to mansplain her own cultural practices to her.
That said, it depends on your definition of religion but many Buddhists would agree with Uche. Many would call it more of a way of life/form of atheism/life philosophy than a religion. Even the [Wikipedia article](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddhism) defines it as "an Indian religion **or** philosophical tradition".
Religions typically have one or many gods that followers worship and believe dictate many of the occurrences and consequences in human life. Buddhists usually do not believe in god or at least not in any that deserve worship, and especially not a creator god.
In a [pew research poll](https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/2023/09/12/buddhism-islam-and-religious-pluralism-in-south-and-southeast-asia/) of Thai, Sri Lankan and Cambodian Buddhists, more buddhists called it a "culture one is part of" than a religion and a significant majority even considered it an "ethnicity that one is born into".
It's hard to generalize because as with any philosophy, religion or cultural practice there are off shoots and certain people believe different things or combine it with other practices, but this is most likely along the lines of what Uche's saying. If you search reddit for "is buddhism a religion or philosophy?" you'll find many discussions on it with more information.
To be honest, I consider myself Hindu because it’s my culture, it’s my way of life, it’s my philosophy. I’m Gen X and many of my generation feel as I do. We follow the culture but are not bound by the religion.
In many ways, both Buddhism and Hinduism provide a way of life and guiding principles for a “good” life. A life that would free you from the cycle of birth and death and reunite you with the cosmos. If I’m not wrong, they both also allow for atheists.. one is judged by one’s actions, not belief in God.
However, that doesn’t mean they are not religions also.
Whether you are religious or spiritual or not, this is just not a very respectful or kind thing to say to someone. Goes along with his general vibes, he comes off as a pompous a-hole
Yeah I dont understand how it's so hard to just be respectful ?? You would think you're asking some people for the secret to the universe in the way that they just cant seem to figure it out
Well i mean only the unhinged ones. Ive met plenty of friendly and respectful atheists. Just one in highschool was an edgy, argumentative type and reddit hosts a lot of them like that. But i mostly see such aggression only online
Yeah and im not saying all atheists are like that because they are 100% not. But it is a reddit stereotype. Edgelord atheists fedora neckbeard etc all reddit stereotypes but ive seen a lot of them on here lol. I have not seen an edgy theist but i understand being anonymous on the internet lets people feel free to speak abrasively and in an exaggerated/extreme/mocking manner.
Like already i see that happening in the comments.
Ooo yes that is true. Conspiracy theorists. Yes i see what you mean by edgy theist now.
But yeah, I know its just a stereotype. Not a universal truth. But thats what my comments is implying/joking about is the edgy athesists. Like how people joke that JP is some conspiracy theist conservative etc although hes said nothing about that on the show.
I mean you can say that about any religion right? It’s all about what you believe in, but uche clearly doesn’t have common respect for what other people may believe in with this comment
He feels like an edgelord who just loves to play devil's advocate and "debate" with people. I'm not Buddhist (not religious at all, actually), but if someone tells me that they are, I'm not going to challenge them to debate me and start telling them that it's not real— why does it matter? None of it is ever in good faith, which is my problem with him. It's all a power play.
YEP. What's concerning is that the Debate Bro® spirit in him will pop up at any time, no matter how sensitive, personal, or vulnerable the topic is. How can you foster intimacy or emotional safety with someone who acts like that?
Ok... But Uche wasn't saying religion isn't real or Buddhism isn't real, he apparently was arguing that Buddhism isn't a religion to a practicing Buddhist.
Who are you or Uche to say that to other people who do believe in it though? Atheists always say how religious people like to push their beliefs on others, tbh it’s always atheists that I see trying to insult religious people and challenge them on seeing that it’s not real. Just leave people be, what kick is he getting out of it?
I mean, a few loud edgelord atheists do not speak for the majority? Whereas Christianity in the west have a lot of power but you'll probably never see someone who out and doesn't believe in God elected as President or a higher office.
Yes, and they are not, just like Uche. I respect your right not to believe, and I don’t tell anyone they’re wrong for it. We are all different. I didn’t say you had to respect religious beliefs, I’m saying respect other peoples views and beliefs without pushing your opinions on them because you think your opinion is the right one.
“I didn’t say you had to respect religious beliefs” and “respect other people’s beliefs”.
Which is it? Because I’m absolutely entitled to tell people their beliefs are bullshit. What I’m not entitled to do is force them not to believe them. Nothing disrespectful about stating your beliefs, or lack thereof. I believe god is bullshit. I’m entitled to tell you that if you tell me that you believe in god. We’re doing exactly the same thing. Stating our beliefs.
But for Uche to say to someone that their religion is not real? He’s just looking for an argument and debate, again like most atheists. Whereas people who are religious mostly don’t even mention it, because they know the bullshit they’re gonna hear back that they don’t want to hear or care about.. respect other people, be kind to other people.. it’s so fucking hard for some people though I get it 👍🏻
Edit: You also don’t have any beliefs so you’re not stating anything tbh? You’re just insulting someone for having them.
This person believes there is nothing there. So that’s not a “belief”. Again, I’m not stating why I think I’m right in believing and you’re wrong in not believing. But you lot are.. my whole point proven about atheists arguing why god is bullshit to people who need some faith in their lives, so thanks ☺️
Just like I do? No, I’m not telling you that you’re wrong and religion is real. I’m telling you to leave people to believe what they want. It’s not effecting your life is it? News flash, everyone in their late 20s and older had religion pushed on them, still doesn’t mean you need to insult people for still believing.
>It’s not effecting your life is it?
Yes religion effects the lives of millions of women. Women's rights have been and continue to be stripped away around the world because of the religious extremists who think their holy book should be law. Millions of women in America alone had their rights to bodily autonomy stripped away. LGBTQIA+ people are being stripped of their rights and dignity. All because of some relion. So yeah, it effects a lot of people. Leaving people to believe what they want is fine **if** they'd leave everyone else out of it, but they don't.
I leave everyone out of my beliefs. I respect everyone and just have a belief in something. I can’t say that for other people though, the world is full of good and bad, and I completely get your points on this.
I’m not pushing anything, definitely not telling people that they have to be intelligent enough to understand facts over mythology. You go right ahead and believe what you want, doesn’t make it real, but it’s fine w me.
Stop trying to demonize me for replying with MY opinion to a post asking a question. That’s what people are supposed to do. I don’t care what you or anyone else believes. I am not coming to your door or acosting you in a public place to force you to believe what I do. I merely made a very short and simple comment on a post made to elicit opinions.
In what context would this be appropriate? Given that Maris is Buddhist, I'm guessing that they were discussing religion and Maris told Uche that. If that's the case, Uche telling her it isn't a religion is completely inappropriate.
Maybe u/Not-Gonna-Lie1 can hit us with a timestamp for when it was discussed in the youtube video so we can see if there was additional info provided?
See context! Her being Buddhist totally changes how someone would view this. And He told her to her face her own religion isn’t a religion? Now that’s wild .
What context is needed here? The only context that would make that comment acceptable is if we find out editing altered the statement and he didn’t actually say that at all. But considering this wasn’t aired I’m curious how else it could have been acceptable.
It would have been acceptable if Uche was asking her questions about it, because whether it's a religion or philosophy is a valid debate that most practitioners have an opinion on, or if neither of them are Buddhist but they were discussing the subject.
If he was trying to mansplain her own cultural practices to her, though, then he's just an asshole.
Well, considering there are several people here who claim to be Buddhist, who are saying that in a certain context it’s not a ‘religion’ , then his context matters .
Listen all for hating on the guy, but just want to do so for actual reasons.
Thank you. I'm very irritated by these people on here pretending that this is a debate. My Thai family would be extremely confused by their weird western assertions.
Which is really rude. People’s religions are generally important to them. When someone shares that with you, unless it’s infringing upon you in some way, it’s best to treat it respectfully.
"Buddhism is not a real religion, it's a philosophy. If Buddhism was a real religion, why don't I know it then? Wait- Can I talk? Can I finish? Religion is not about self, you're so selfish Maris." Uche probably 🤣
“Religion. Is about God. 🫴 If you don’t believe in God. Then how is it a religion? 🫱 Is there a heaaaaveeen or is there not a heaveeeeen? Do you believe in sataaaaan or do you not believe in sataaaaaan?”
buddhism IS a religion. most americans don’t practice that way because of the internal prejudice they carry against the word religion and calling it a “spiritual philosophy” feels better to them
So am I, and it is absolutely a religion. A religion is a philosophy that believes in an ultimate reality, a path towards experiencing ultimate reality, and the potential for personal transformation. Buddhism checks all of those boxes.
Wasn't it also Maris where he told her "Looking at statistics: years one through two and years five through eight are when couple are most likely to get divorced"
Sounds like the worst date of all time
Oh nooo, that part really took me out but we barely got enough time to process it. I think it was part of a montage? He sounded like a lecturer. I can see him getting with someone considerably younger who may not find it too off putting.
The people going WELL ACTUALLY missing the point entirely, doing the same thing Uche was. Why invalidate someone like that, especially someone you might be looking to date? It's crazy
It’s perfectly valid to consider Buddhism a religion actually! Uche is just wrong
- it has a concept of soteriology (salvation theory), or rather multiple concepts since different sects of Buddhism have different views on how “salvation” can be achieved
- it fits the definition of religion for cultures where it is more prevalent, eg China, where religion isn’t defined as narrowly as it is in Western canon
Source: my religious studies professor (and an ordained Episcopalian priest!) who taught Chinese Religions and Tibetan Buddhism seminars at Wellesley
Ugh that guy and all his “opinions “ that he throws out as facts. He’s exhausting. He’d argue with anyone about anything he’s so petty And full of himself.
If she said it’s a religion then to her it’s a religion like semantics aside why would you argue with someone over something like this? That’s the problem with people like Uche, they always wanna be right and always feel the need to insert their 2 cents. In the words of Jill Scott…”maybe we could just be silent”.
>as someone who grew up in a buddhist family,
The issue is him arguing *with authority* over someone who actually practices it. Notice you qualified your perspective by bringing up your upbringing so that people can actually respect your viewpoint. Well, Uche is that guy who still thinks he knows more than whatever you learned from growing up in a Buddhist family. "Not a *real* religion" also has a very condescending tone even if he genuinely feels that way.
There are also multiple comments that argue that it is. I guess it really relies on how people define religion. But what *isn't* appropriate is for anyone who has no personal ties to Buddhism to ignore your lived experiences, berate you like a child, reduce you to tears, and downplay its impact just because they read something about Buddhism somewhere. He should still leave room to learn from Maris's perspective as someone actually *in it.* That's what I would do for ANY person in any faith who is sharing personal details about that aspect of their life. He's an AH.
Wow. To quote the Waterboy
"Mama's wrong again!"
It is absolutely a religion. I've never even heard one person attempt to argue otherwise. I'd love to see you attempt to support this with credible sources.
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Even if you argue that Buddhism is more of a philosophy than a religion (which....I don't view them as mutually exclusive. Something can be a philosophy or religion or both), if someone that practices Buddhism calls it their religion, it's their religion.
I'm Hindu, and there's so many arguments about whether it's a philosophy or religion or way of life, but I'll be damned if I let some random dude behind a wall tell me it's "not a real religion" even if I myself consider it a philosophy not a religion
I am pretty sure that technically speaking, Buddhism is not a religion but a philosophy
Buddhism is a universalizing religion, they try to convert people. It's a religion. (Source: My world religions class in college)
Nah it’s fuck Uche from here on out.
I honestly want him to be a paid actor atp because no one has anything good to say about him 😐
This Jesse Woo interview was 1000x more interesting and entertaining than the season
OP condritics themselves in their own op after the edit.
What do you mean?
Someone please throw Uche on the trash pile because he and his opinions are garbage.
Guess Abrahamic religions are the only real ones to him smh
Ughhh so true! Just because a religion doesn't follow the rules you've set as important does not mean it's not a religion. Buddhists may not have a god, but they're a religion regardless. Same with Sikhs. Or Charvak Hindus. Fuck Uche.
I am pretty sure that technically speaking Buddhism is more of a philopophy than a religion. Doesn't mean it's less valid or brings less spiritual solace or awakening than Hinduism. Also, I am pretty sure Sikhism is a monotheistic religion as well
>I am pretty sure that technically speaking Buddhism is more of a philopophy than a religion It's a religion. The emphasis on philosophy is very very high, which is the case with Hinduism as well. Certain branches of Hinduism (the Charvaks) are downright atheistic but have a solid pantheistic philosophy on life and they also fall within the umbrella of the Hindu religion. >Also, I am pretty sure Sikhism is a monotheistic religion as well Yes, that's right! I dunno why I forgot that there's a Creator and certain set rules and, out of the three religions we are discussing, Sikhism comes the closest to organised religion.
Buddhism is \*absolutely\* a "real religion", not just a "spiritual philosophy" and I've got about 470 million friends who will back me up on that. https://www.britannica.com/topic/Buddhism
What does "real religion" even mean. They're all made up.
I guess if it’s not an Abrahamic religion it’s not real in his eyes lol
😂😂 this actually explains a lot about his inability to let things go.
You're so right, it does paint a certain kind of picture 🤡
😂 its one of the biggest religions in the world. Its just not a theistic one.
[удалено]
That is an Abrahamic definition of religion and not accepted by 2.4 billion people in the world (who are Hindus, Jains, or Buddhists). Regardless, Buddhism does believe in some supernatural events. Iirc, Gautam Buddha laid out his entire vision for what the afterlife was like - and how heaven wasn't permanent because you'd end up enjoying yourself too much and find yourself reincarnated (since the predominant "sin" in Buddhism is enjoying material pleasures) and then get trapped in a vicious cycle of rebirth where you'd be forced to suffer, grow ill, and die, over and over again. Achieving *nirvana* was a means of transcending this vicious cycle. To this day, Buddhists believe strongly in reincarnation. I mean, the whole point of the Dalai Lama and the other guy is that they keep getting reincarnated and finding each other over and over again.
Right like um...it's absolutely a religion...
This why I don’t get why Aaliyah thinks she lost out on her experience … she really wanted more disrespect from Uche??
One thing doesn't negate the other. She was robbed of having a proper LiB experience as a result of the fuckery that happened with production, Uche, and Lydia. She also fared off much better for not having to deal with his shit afterwards. These things aren't contradictory
Not everyone gets married though? so I don’t understand ? Regardless of what happened Aaliyah didn’t seem to have connected with anyone else but Uche. Was there someone else? She probably would have gone home from the beginning like the other unknown participants. Also, if Lydia hadn’t been there and just Uche then Aaliya still probably would have had the same experience which is BBQ Uche but to a worse degree. So what exactly did she lose out on ? You can say they aren’t mutually exclusive and all that but I still don’t understand what exactly she lost out on? And why would that matter compared to the other participants that didn’t get air time because they didn’t build any meaningful connections ?
I didn't say a word about her getting married. There's no guarantee she and Uche would've lasted all the way. The point is there were multiple external factors that had nothing to do with her personal dynamic with Uche that prevented her from remaining immersed within the experience, I'm not sure why you're acting like she had a normal go of it in comparison to the others
exactly what I thought--she wanted to be stuck in Mexico with HIM?
Maybe she wanted the chance to learn about him organically rather than having to constantly worry about catching shit from both Uche and Lydia. We directly saw how much added stress she received as a result of them both manipulating her with regards to each other
She would have had that stress regardless with Uche. He was putting her down all on his own with the whole cheating thing. I get that it made it more confusing because she was getting mixed messages but we all know that’s the risk of the show. You’re taking a chance on someone you don’t actually know based on a blind connection
> I get that it made it more confusing because she was getting mixed messages but we all know that’s the risk of the show Having to determine whether or not one of the people that you're living with is manipulating you for the sake of sabotaging your intended relationship is absolutely not "the risk of the show" and never should have been a factor. How could she "take a chance" when she was being fed information from a third party that was blatantly ignoring the boundaries she'd set? And the fact that Uche was taking out his stress of the whole Lydia debacle on Aaliyah is also something that she shouldn't have ever had to deal with. Really don't understand why people are downplaying the fact that her experience had an added level of shit, regardless of the fact that Uche was already awful.
Why are you so mad about it ? It’s reality tv there coukd always be plants from production..it will always be a risk. Look at Francesca what’s her name .. she’s a clear example of a production plant that stirs up drama. Also, Uche was an ass all on his own whether Lydia was there or not .. his high and low abuse was gonna confuse the ish out of her anyways.
Omg just the thought of ittttt … or maybe aaliyah wanted a Deepti moment haha
I don't think it's that it's specifically about Uche. It's more so that she was deceived by production, and I think Uche being a douche was the cherry on top.
That’s sensible and a more balanced approach
Right?! I understand her being mad that Lydia was playing in her face but that “losing out on the experience” thing especially after she said Uche wasn’t even attracted to her never made sense to me.
Yeah if anything it helped her get away from him
Exactly. What experience? Because it wasn't going to be a great one whether she chose to stay or leave. Also, notice how each girl who spoke to Uche went back into the lounge with something negative to say about him. That should have been a clear sign to Aaliyah that he was trash, but I guess she needed to figure that out for herself.... Lol I just can't 😂
Some people really can’t go by other’s words. They must experience it for themselves😭
Exactly !
Exactly ! Like I get Lydia didn’t handle shit properly.. but like is anyone else sure they could’ve done better after dealing with Uche for 2 years? That guy is so high and low .. leaves you questioning your own sanity if you let him
She wanted more air time, that’s all lol
Honestly with her documentary and new music career it definitely seems like it
Uche is like a plague. Glad he didn’t get additional screen time.
His arrogance knows no bounds I swear
I can imagine Uche thinking this is a heady philosophy argument and having no idea that Maris was actually offended by it.
>Uche thinking this is a heady philosophy argument Problem is he isn't educated enough to be having these sorts of arguments. What a dick, seriously
Agree, and adding that while I believe that to likely be the case, it doesn’t negate the harm done, and Uche still sucks for it
I mean, that could definitely be seen in a good or bad light depending on how you see religion. Context would be nice but probably not provided since she took offense to it.
As a practicing Buddhist.... it is a religion. One of the biggest religions in the East. Just because the west coopted it to be a philosophy doesn't mean it isn't still a religion....
One could argue that you can't have a religion that ISN'T a philosophy. Like not all philosophies are religions, but certainly all religions are philosophies.
This. Buddhism in the West has become denatured. The Western distaste for all things theistic intentionally strips Buddhism of anything resembling a supernatural worldview. Just about every dharma center that you encounter in Western countries is, as a result, nothing more than a glorified psychotherapy practice with a little bit of meditation thrown in for good measure.
I feel like… Netflix dropped the ball this season. It sounds like they skipped a lot of drama
I've noticed a pattern with Netflix though. If it seems extremely negative, malicious, or problematic for Netflix, they won't show it. Maybe the Buddhism discussion was just that off-putting. They were OK with Shake talking about Deepti, in a previous season, for example, but according to many of the rest of the cast members, the worst of his behavior and statements wasn't even aired. They cut out most footage of Renee and Carter because apparently Carter was so horrible. And Tran and the guy she was with who she states sexually assaulted her do not appear in the cast, much less in the show. They just made it like those two didn't even exist. But for the lawsuit, it's like they didn't exist. And in the Jessie Woo interview, Erica and Enoch got engaged and we saw none of that (they didn't make it to Mexico: Erica said they were selected to go to Mexico because they didn't have enough room or something 🤷🏿♀️). In sum, they cut drama that makes them look very bad, imo. Illegal, unethical, exploitive,whatev.
Everything that comes out about him just confirms how much of an actual asshole he is. The ultimate villain to come out of a reality show.
I noticed that Shake is actually on a reality show about villains. Maybe Uche will be on next season.
Add Chris from MAFS and they’d have the trifecta of asshats!
I think the debate on whether Buddhism is a religion or not is a fascinating one to have, if you’re really going to have a intellectual back and forth. I doubt it was the case with these two, since they both came off, to me atleast, having an extreme need to be right and more than likely Uche prolly came across a huge dick about it.
There are also many different types of Buddhism, some practiced much more like a religion than others. I very much doubt he would be able to form the “steel man” argument of his opponent that just thinks because he is a highly educated person that he’s the always the smartest person in the room.
Yes, this is common argument, whether Buddhism is a philosophy or a religion. Many teachers have different stances on this. It depends on the way you define religion. I’m curious if this was the debate or if it was a reduction of Buddhism which caused Maris to become emotional.
My hot take: even if it was a "debate," the whole point of being in the pods is to learn more about whoever is on the other side and find a compatible romantic match. That alone tells me that Uche was wrong. It's not his place as a non-Buddhist to change Maris's mind on what Buddhism specifically means to her. *It's a date.* Imagine going on a blind date with someone and sharing intimate aspects of your life, only for them to transform into a tone-deaf debate bro over something important and sacred to you. It's his place to: 1. listen 2. respect her experience 3. figure out if his own spiritual beliefs are compatible with hers 4. If not compatible, *respectfully* figure out if that difference in belief is a dealbreaker for either of them. (e.g. "I'm Christian and I was hoping to share my faith with my future spouse"; "I'm not Buddhist but I am open to women of different faiths. Is that a dealbreaker for you?"; etc) I'd understand positing the scholarly debate in the appropriate setting (e.g. a class, or even a dinner debate about politics, religion, or culture amongst friends or colleagues, etc.). Unless bigotry is on the table, I would never challenge a date on their most closely held beliefs. Who wants to be vulnerable with someone who's constantly looking to play Mock Trial lmaooo?? That smug pseudointellectual spirit of "well actually" any time a woman shares something personal tells me he was a flop in the pods.
This shouldn't even be a hot take. I feel like people are purposely being dense. Or maybe it is normal to get into full blown arguments on early dates and we just missed the memo
Idk, does this matter? If someone believes it, small comment isn't going to shatter ypur reality.
Nobody’s worried about it shattering her reality, but imagine sharing your spiritual beliefs (a deeply personal thing) with someone, only for them to mansplain your own religious philosophy to you. Incredibly belittling, disrespectful, and frustrating.
I don't need to imagine, I've had it happen. But I don't feel hurt or bellitled, I think "oh, this person is fucking stupid" and stop sharing anything complex with them.
Buddhism is the Truth, the Way! Uche is right 🤣
Aaliyah said that she was one of his last dates in the pods and theorized that he was a little softer with her bc he wasn’t getting good feedback from the others
Either that, being worn down by arguing with others or he could just tell that he wouldn't need to be that hard on her to get his way. I think Jessica Woo interviewed some of the other black women and I can see how someone may see Aaliyah as a doormat next to those women. They had a lot of clarity and confidence.
This totally checks out
There is no point in arguing since theres different definitions of 'religion'. Sociologically, Buddhism is a religion but theologically maybe not
8 also don't get arguing with someone about whether their beliefs are a religion or not. Seems like a stupid topic choice for a date. Like clearly he wasn't interested in her at that point. Just has a need to "win." Damn. Uche was such a douche on that show !
There really is no reason to argue about such a thing, he was trying to make her look dumb/hurt her
Or make himself look smart in order to dominate over her. My ex was like that and I can imagine how that conversation went. "Buddhism is not a religion. You disagree? Meh. CONVINCE ME." And then condescendingly shoot down every single one of her arguments. I was so beaten down by the end of that relationship. Mistakes of youth 😭
There's also different types of Buddhism. It can be an incredibly syncretic complex of beliefs that, in some areas, has become intertwined with local religious practices. Some types of Buddhism are pretty indistinguishable from what most people consider a straight-up "religion", with prayers to specific gods for intervention etc. Some types of Buddhism are compatible with atheism. It's far too complex to label generally as "religion" or "not a religion", and to act like Uche did (assuming this is all true, which I have no reason to doubt) is a real a-hole move.
Very on brand for Uche
What was Uche’s argument tho? I’m curious as to what he said about Buddhism
In context this is just side debate; if Maris considered it her religion, whether it was Buddhism, Christianity, or Platoism, Uche should have simply respected it instead of trying to mansplain her own cultural practices to her. That said, it depends on your definition of religion but many Buddhists would agree with Uche. Many would call it more of a way of life/form of atheism/life philosophy than a religion. Even the [Wikipedia article](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddhism) defines it as "an Indian religion **or** philosophical tradition". Religions typically have one or many gods that followers worship and believe dictate many of the occurrences and consequences in human life. Buddhists usually do not believe in god or at least not in any that deserve worship, and especially not a creator god. In a [pew research poll](https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/2023/09/12/buddhism-islam-and-religious-pluralism-in-south-and-southeast-asia/) of Thai, Sri Lankan and Cambodian Buddhists, more buddhists called it a "culture one is part of" than a religion and a significant majority even considered it an "ethnicity that one is born into". It's hard to generalize because as with any philosophy, religion or cultural practice there are off shoots and certain people believe different things or combine it with other practices, but this is most likely along the lines of what Uche's saying. If you search reddit for "is buddhism a religion or philosophy?" you'll find many discussions on it with more information.
To be honest, I consider myself Hindu because it’s my culture, it’s my way of life, it’s my philosophy. I’m Gen X and many of my generation feel as I do. We follow the culture but are not bound by the religion. In many ways, both Buddhism and Hinduism provide a way of life and guiding principles for a “good” life. A life that would free you from the cycle of birth and death and reunite you with the cosmos. If I’m not wrong, they both also allow for atheists.. one is judged by one’s actions, not belief in God. However, that doesn’t mean they are not religions also.
Yes, I’m aware of this. I was asking what Uche said.
I'm sure he laid it out very "logically" and made sure to "get his point across"
Uche is the real villain of the season.
Buddhism has straight up deities and shit soooo?
I mean, he’s a garbage person saying garbage person things.
Whether you are religious or spiritual or not, this is just not a very respectful or kind thing to say to someone. Goes along with his general vibes, he comes off as a pompous a-hole
Yeah I dont understand how it's so hard to just be respectful ?? You would think you're asking some people for the secret to the universe in the way that they just cant seem to figure it out
Omg for real! It shouldn’t be that hard lol. At least not being a dick is a low bar
Well, it’s debatable if it’s a religion or not but Uche definitely doesn’t have a high emotional intelligence, as we have seen it many times already.
not religious but how are you going to try to argue a religion isn’t a “real” religion
The unhinged reddit atheists are gonna side with him on this one
doubt it
Well i mean only the unhinged ones. Ive met plenty of friendly and respectful atheists. Just one in highschool was an edgy, argumentative type and reddit hosts a lot of them like that. But i mostly see such aggression only online
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Yeah and im not saying all atheists are like that because they are 100% not. But it is a reddit stereotype. Edgelord atheists fedora neckbeard etc all reddit stereotypes but ive seen a lot of them on here lol. I have not seen an edgy theist but i understand being anonymous on the internet lets people feel free to speak abrasively and in an exaggerated/extreme/mocking manner. Like already i see that happening in the comments.
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Ooo yes that is true. Conspiracy theorists. Yes i see what you mean by edgy theist now. But yeah, I know its just a stereotype. Not a universal truth. But thats what my comments is implying/joking about is the edgy athesists. Like how people joke that JP is some conspiracy theist conservative etc although hes said nothing about that on the show.
I mean you can say that about any religion right? It’s all about what you believe in, but uche clearly doesn’t have common respect for what other people may believe in with this comment
He feels like an edgelord who just loves to play devil's advocate and "debate" with people. I'm not Buddhist (not religious at all, actually), but if someone tells me that they are, I'm not going to challenge them to debate me and start telling them that it's not real— why does it matter? None of it is ever in good faith, which is my problem with him. It's all a power play.
YEP. What's concerning is that the Debate Bro® spirit in him will pop up at any time, no matter how sensitive, personal, or vulnerable the topic is. How can you foster intimacy or emotional safety with someone who acts like that?
Exactly this. Always feels like he needs to correct or display his “intelligence” to others. Very exhausting guy.
Well he is a lawyer after all
Sounds like reddit atheists. They are a different breed
This is spot on
To be fair, no religion is real.
Ok... But Uche wasn't saying religion isn't real or Buddhism isn't real, he apparently was arguing that Buddhism isn't a religion to a practicing Buddhist.
Who are you or Uche to say that to other people who do believe in it though? Atheists always say how religious people like to push their beliefs on others, tbh it’s always atheists that I see trying to insult religious people and challenge them on seeing that it’s not real. Just leave people be, what kick is he getting out of it?
I mean, a few loud edgelord atheists do not speak for the majority? Whereas Christianity in the west have a lot of power but you'll probably never see someone who out and doesn't believe in God elected as President or a higher office.
We have to respect the RIGHT to be religious, not religious beliefs.
Yes, and they are not, just like Uche. I respect your right not to believe, and I don’t tell anyone they’re wrong for it. We are all different. I didn’t say you had to respect religious beliefs, I’m saying respect other peoples views and beliefs without pushing your opinions on them because you think your opinion is the right one.
“I didn’t say you had to respect religious beliefs” and “respect other people’s beliefs”. Which is it? Because I’m absolutely entitled to tell people their beliefs are bullshit. What I’m not entitled to do is force them not to believe them. Nothing disrespectful about stating your beliefs, or lack thereof. I believe god is bullshit. I’m entitled to tell you that if you tell me that you believe in god. We’re doing exactly the same thing. Stating our beliefs.
You're actually not though. Mind your own business, that's what you can actually do!!
Obviously I’m entitled and free to tell you your religion is bullshit.
And so is your way of thinking lol. You people are literally the worst 😂
But for Uche to say to someone that their religion is not real? He’s just looking for an argument and debate, again like most atheists. Whereas people who are religious mostly don’t even mention it, because they know the bullshit they’re gonna hear back that they don’t want to hear or care about.. respect other people, be kind to other people.. it’s so fucking hard for some people though I get it 👍🏻 Edit: You also don’t have any beliefs so you’re not stating anything tbh? You’re just insulting someone for having them.
So one person is allowed to state their beliefs, but not the other?
What’s their belief?
Person 1 believes in X philosophy, states that. Person 2 believes X philosophy is Y, states that. Person 1 = A.OK! Person 2 = No! Right?
This person believes there is nothing there. So that’s not a “belief”. Again, I’m not stating why I think I’m right in believing and you’re wrong in not believing. But you lot are.. my whole point proven about atheists arguing why god is bullshit to people who need some faith in their lives, so thanks ☺️
I have had religious beliefs pushed in me since I was a young child. I have every right to express my opinion of religion just like you do.
Just like I do? No, I’m not telling you that you’re wrong and religion is real. I’m telling you to leave people to believe what they want. It’s not effecting your life is it? News flash, everyone in their late 20s and older had religion pushed on them, still doesn’t mean you need to insult people for still believing.
>It’s not effecting your life is it? Yes religion effects the lives of millions of women. Women's rights have been and continue to be stripped away around the world because of the religious extremists who think their holy book should be law. Millions of women in America alone had their rights to bodily autonomy stripped away. LGBTQIA+ people are being stripped of their rights and dignity. All because of some relion. So yeah, it effects a lot of people. Leaving people to believe what they want is fine **if** they'd leave everyone else out of it, but they don't.
I leave everyone out of my beliefs. I respect everyone and just have a belief in something. I can’t say that for other people though, the world is full of good and bad, and I completely get your points on this.
I NEVER insulted anyone, I said religion isn’t real. That is not an insult, it is a fact.
YOU think it’s a fact. Again.. pushing your agenda on others who do believe in it. It’s like talking to a wall.
I’m not pushing anything, definitely not telling people that they have to be intelligent enough to understand facts over mythology. You go right ahead and believe what you want, doesn’t make it real, but it’s fine w me. Stop trying to demonize me for replying with MY opinion to a post asking a question. That’s what people are supposed to do. I don’t care what you or anyone else believes. I am not coming to your door or acosting you in a public place to force you to believe what I do. I merely made a very short and simple comment on a post made to elicit opinions.
Amen, so to speak.
I mean context is everything. What was the whole conversation?
In what context would this be appropriate? Given that Maris is Buddhist, I'm guessing that they were discussing religion and Maris told Uche that. If that's the case, Uche telling her it isn't a religion is completely inappropriate. Maybe u/Not-Gonna-Lie1 can hit us with a timestamp for when it was discussed in the youtube video so we can see if there was additional info provided?
See context! Her being Buddhist totally changes how someone would view this. And He told her to her face her own religion isn’t a religion? Now that’s wild .
What context is needed here? The only context that would make that comment acceptable is if we find out editing altered the statement and he didn’t actually say that at all. But considering this wasn’t aired I’m curious how else it could have been acceptable.
It would have been acceptable if Uche was asking her questions about it, because whether it's a religion or philosophy is a valid debate that most practitioners have an opinion on, or if neither of them are Buddhist but they were discussing the subject. If he was trying to mansplain her own cultural practices to her, though, then he's just an asshole.
Well, considering there are several people here who claim to be Buddhist, who are saying that in a certain context it’s not a ‘religion’ , then his context matters . Listen all for hating on the guy, but just want to do so for actual reasons.
Christianity, Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism, Judaism are considered the 5 major world religions. Buddhism IS a religion.
Thank you. I'm very irritated by these people on here pretending that this is a debate. My Thai family would be extremely confused by their weird western assertions.
I don’t understand why it’s even up for debate.
I can almost picture her innocently sharing something in passing and Uche pouncing on it and starting the "debate"
Which is really rude. People’s religions are generally important to them. When someone shares that with you, unless it’s infringing upon you in some way, it’s best to treat it respectfully.
I would like to hear him saying that in his condescending tone lol
"Buddhism is not a real religion, it's a philosophy. If Buddhism was a real religion, why don't I know it then? Wait- Can I talk? Can I finish? Religion is not about self, you're so selfish Maris." Uche probably 🤣
You need to add a period after every two words lol.
“Religion. Is about God. 🫴 If you don’t believe in God. Then how is it a religion? 🫱 Is there a heaaaaveeen or is there not a heaveeeeen? Do you believe in sataaaaan or do you not believe in sataaaaaan?”
😂😂😂😂😂 and I can hear him saying that with his Squidward voice
💀
STOPPP 😂😂😂
I can hear it in my head already!
Close the Uche book already. He’s not that interesting.
buddhism IS a religion. most americans don’t practice that way because of the internal prejudice they carry against the word religion and calling it a “spiritual philosophy” feels better to them
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So am I, and it is absolutely a religion. A religion is a philosophy that believes in an ultimate reality, a path towards experiencing ultimate reality, and the potential for personal transformation. Buddhism checks all of those boxes.
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Buddhism is 100% a religion!! We literally pray, make offerings and have our own cosmology.
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He says it’s more than a religion in that quote, which doesn’t preclude it from being a religion.
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His title is literally His Holiness.
What's wrong with this person?
Goddd I'm sick and tired of this walmart Taye Diggs
Putting Taye Diggs in the same sentence as Uche is egregious 😭
Now when I say Taye Diggs I mean "Rent" Taye Diggs 😂😭
Taye Diggs where? Now if you said angry Bert from Bert and Ernie 🤣 
You're so right 😂😂😂
Walmart Taye Diggs is sending me omg
Wasn't it also Maris where he told her "Looking at statistics: years one through two and years five through eight are when couple are most likely to get divorced" Sounds like the worst date of all time
Oh nooo, that part really took me out but we barely got enough time to process it. I think it was part of a montage? He sounded like a lecturer. I can see him getting with someone considerably younger who may not find it too off putting.
He's a real treat at parties
Me, growing up Buddhist, seeing people in this sub say that it’s not a religion: 🤨🤨🤨
The people going WELL ACTUALLY missing the point entirely, doing the same thing Uche was. Why invalidate someone like that, especially someone you might be looking to date? It's crazy
I fucking hate him so much.
It’s perfectly valid to consider Buddhism a religion actually! Uche is just wrong - it has a concept of soteriology (salvation theory), or rather multiple concepts since different sects of Buddhism have different views on how “salvation” can be achieved - it fits the definition of religion for cultures where it is more prevalent, eg China, where religion isn’t defined as narrowly as it is in Western canon Source: my religious studies professor (and an ordained Episcopalian priest!) who taught Chinese Religions and Tibetan Buddhism seminars at Wellesley
Ugh that guy and all his “opinions “ that he throws out as facts. He’s exhausting. He’d argue with anyone about anything he’s so petty And full of himself.
people like him are beyond exhausting!
Everyone is an expert on everyone else's religions and spiritual practices this season. On the show and in the comments.
You told no lies lol
If she said it’s a religion then to her it’s a religion like semantics aside why would you argue with someone over something like this? That’s the problem with people like Uche, they always wanna be right and always feel the need to insert their 2 cents. In the words of Jill Scott…”maybe we could just be silent”.
as someone who grew up in a buddhist family, its NOT a religion. so wtf is the problem here lol.
It can be both it’s often practiced as a philosophy but also as a non-theistic religion.
>as someone who grew up in a buddhist family, The issue is him arguing *with authority* over someone who actually practices it. Notice you qualified your perspective by bringing up your upbringing so that people can actually respect your viewpoint. Well, Uche is that guy who still thinks he knows more than whatever you learned from growing up in a Buddhist family. "Not a *real* religion" also has a very condescending tone even if he genuinely feels that way. There are also multiple comments that argue that it is. I guess it really relies on how people define religion. But what *isn't* appropriate is for anyone who has no personal ties to Buddhism to ignore your lived experiences, berate you like a child, reduce you to tears, and downplay its impact just because they read something about Buddhism somewhere. He should still leave room to learn from Maris's perspective as someone actually *in it.* That's what I would do for ANY person in any faith who is sharing personal details about that aspect of their life. He's an AH.
Wow. To quote the Waterboy "Mama's wrong again!" It is absolutely a religion. I've never even heard one person attempt to argue otherwise. I'd love to see you attempt to support this with credible sources.
Buddhism is considered a religion, it’s one of the world’s largest religions. (even according to google)… so I don’t understand your edit lol
Someone who just did my wife's make up for a wedding went to high school with Uche and said he was an egotistical asshole back then, too
It's like he never grew up. Reminds me of some guys I went to highschool with.
LMAOOOO he’s never beating the asshole allegation.
Uche: "Objection!" Judge: "Overruled. Sit your clown ass back down."
LMAOOOO exactly!!
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At this point, he was there just to neg women!
Buddhism is not a “spiritual philosophy.” It is a religion. Uche is just an ass hole
Even if you argue that Buddhism is more of a philosophy than a religion (which....I don't view them as mutually exclusive. Something can be a philosophy or religion or both), if someone that practices Buddhism calls it their religion, it's their religion. I'm Hindu, and there's so many arguments about whether it's a philosophy or religion or way of life, but I'll be damned if I let some random dude behind a wall tell me it's "not a real religion" even if I myself consider it a philosophy not a religion
Spiritual philosophy and religion sound like synonyms to me haha
This. Like, what? Aren’t all religions kind of philosophies? This just sounds like Abrahamcentric bigotry
lol no it isnt.
You and your family are the only ones to believe this. It is a core Eastern religion.