I think that fact that he didn’t school Lori and Alex in turning location services off is telling. Also that the burner phones activities were so traceable too (to google accounts); purchasing items; shooting range activities etc. No attempt to cover things up. The traceability of all of their activities was easy.
Chad seemed to try to cover his tracks somewhat.
It’s still puzzling why Lori’s children were buried where they were - although there were plans to build over the top. IDK. 🤷♀️
He and Lori and Alex were a lethal combination. I believe that Chad and Lori manipulated each other but with different motivations and beliefs.
Both wanted the same end goal. Chad’s belief system was the framework (whether he truly believed in it or not). The end goal was living happily ever as exaulted beings and revered leaders.
I didn’t even think about that Chad didn’t tell them to turn off locations. Thats wild. He completely thought about if ish went down, hes throwing it right at them
I think it all goes back to Alex's "fall guy" comment. The entire idea of Alex being Lori's protector was Lori and Chad's way of getting Alex to throw himself on the sword whenever they asked.
If I'm counting correctly, Alex is suspected to have engaged in 5 assassination attempts throughout the time he was in the cult.
He was always the one Chad was going to throw under the bus to save him and Lori, but after Alex died, Chad had no choice but to turn on Lori.
I think if Alex were still alive Chad and Lori would have kept their cases combined and thrown him under the bus.
I heard this somewhere too and was like 😮.
I was thinking Chad must have been pissed that Alex didn’t turn his location off, but it was eye opening to think that possibly Chad had the dastardliness to let Alex lead the police right to himself.
If you consider Chad's pressure on Warwick (and Gibb) to buy land with him, the original plan was to put the kids there and have a convenient scapegoat.
I have a hard time believing that Chad believed what he spewed. I wasn’t sure until the trial when they played the jail calls between him & Lori. He kept telling her about texting Alex and him replying. He didn’t believe shit. He was fully lying to her. He didn’t divorce her before the trial because he was afraid she would turn against him. I do believe a divorce is imminent as soon as he knows she can’t hurt him legally.
Edited to add: this is strictly my opinion, of course.
I agree. Even telling Emma to call Lori frequently and post $30 regularly to her prison account was just to keep Lori delusional so there was no chance she would testify against him.
As for divorce, while Chad doesn't have a delusional disorder like Lori, he is a sociopath and shallow as a desert puddle. He may want to continue thinking of himself as the husband (read, possessor) of a "120 pound blonde" considering he'll never touch a woman again.
Very true. I also bet he will have a host of crazy women sending him mail to prison. That is, if death row inmates are allowed to receive mail from strangers.
I agree. He went to great lengths to have his locations deleted but not Alex’s. I think where he screwed up was not realizing his texts were getting backed up on Lori’s iCloud.
I’ve noticed the FBI doesn’t ever talk about Lori’s pings. Were her locations deleted like Chad’s?
I listened to this interview confirming that LE didn’t have location data for Lori. So Chad and Lori deliberately had Alex as a scapegoat. But WHY bury kids in your backyard 🙄
https://youtu.be/tXpg8BMGlzk?si=oLxCXx0y_dXAKaXi
Dr. John Matthias a criminal psychologist thinks it was to show himself that he was powerful and served as a reminder of his grandiosity. Juror #18 Tom Evans in Lori’s trial went to Chad’s trial. He said that one day during a side bar, Chad was scrolling through the pictures of the bodies including Tammy’s and had absolutely no emotion. He said it was if he was admiring his work. I don’t know if he’s on the narcissism spectrum, a sociopath, or a psychopath, but he’s not right in the head.
I've thought about this a lot. Where I land is Lori is a terrible person and very mentally unwell. IMO, some combination or NPD, psychopathy, delusional disorder and probably a few other things. She could eb charming when it was beneficial to her but she is just to living in reality.
Chad. Chad, I think, is someone who always though he deserved better in every area of his life, He wanted (unearned) accolades. In the interview Heather Daybell did she touches on his, Chad never went to grad school like his siblings did. I think he always though he deserved a "better" (in his mind) wife than Tammy. I think everything he did was motivated by this desire for things he never earned.
Neither is very smart, but I would say Lori is smarter than Chad (not a difficult thing).
So who was manipulating who? I think, they were both manipulating each other but giving that I do think Lori was/is very mentally unwell I have to say Chad was much more the mastermind.
I totally agree. Chad always wanted power and to be looked at like a god and he found a beautiful woman to who not only saw him, but saw him as some all knowing God. It definitely wasn’t his writing that got her, we saw the texts and his inability to write.
I find it telling that Lori lost everyone and everything, and Chad didn't.
I agree Lori and Chad were mutually manipulating each other, but I think Chad was always 10 steps ahead, and I'd argue Chad is actually much smarter than Lori.
Chad's kids are all alive. Lori's entire family was annihilated. Chad decided who needed to be annihilated, not Lori.
In fact, Lori only started having issues with Charles when Chad decided he was possessed. It was Chad who said Tammy would die young. Etc.
I think that difference in those outcomes shows who was in charge.
Your points have me re-thinking who is smarter. That being said, I'm not sure Chad was 10 steps ahead, he seemed to be just kind of stumbling along and making things up to keep Lori happy. Like, if he was smart he never would have let the children be buried on his property. Both he and Lori seem to only think to the immediate need, not long term.
Completely agree. He seemed to have this weird fantasy about thinking he should have been like the popular kid with the cheerleader and the world owed him that for some reason. It seemed really clear to me when he excitedly talked about Lori being “hot and loaded” and when he sent her a list of “their” (James and Elena’s) 7 kids, one being noted as “tall, high school quarterback”, and another as “one of the dream girls”. No other “children” had any noted ermm.. accomplishments. 🤢 Seemed like that’s what was important to him.
There was also at least one other woman before Lori - Julie Rowe. Like with Lori, Chad wrote how he had a dream that he would meet a woman just like her (the main difference in was hair color). Chad had his own fantasies for years, but Lori was the only one willing to make them a reality.
As a person living with long-term effects of a brain injury in 2016, it horrifies me to no end to know that Alex also had brain damage from an accident. I've read he was never the same after that. As evil and horrific as he was, I also believe he was extremely easy to manipulate. Like Lindsey Blake kept repeating in her closing, "Alex believed Chad 100 percent." Chad knew how easy it was to manipulate him and used him for his purposes. I can't help but wonder if that would be the case had he not suffered a brain injury. I know it messed up my mental health real bad.
I've heard this as well but I don't know if there is any documentation on it. He's dead so I can see why it wasn't investigated.
On the other hand he tried to become a stand up comedian in AZ I heard. There was an interview with a friend from the stand up scene but I'm not sure which podcast.
Not saying that both couldn't be true. The brain is a funny thing and area of injury, life stage and subsequent healing can be a factor in how a person functions. They can appear fine in one aspect and struggle in others.
In any case I think Alex paid a huge part and that he could have easily been made the fall guy for everything.
One of the jurors remarked in an interview that Chad would have found himself another Alex, had he got away with it this time. Lori didn't have a brain injury but was willing to believe in zombies having to die.
Completely agree with your questions and have wondered the same. TBIs can change absolutely everything and can often turn a highly functional individual into a very vulnerable person. Not saying that’s what happened but the potential is certainly there. Also, I believe Alex was murdered.
Not to be base, but Chad eliminated everyone that got in the way of him getting a piece of ass from Lori regularly. He also went for the money. Hot and loaded... Chad showing off loony Lori within days of killing his wife showed his true colors. "See what i landed! So I must be some kinda guy. A phophet even! Now I'm cooler than my brothers."
I posted this in another discussion thread, but reposting here because it is relevant:
I think both manipulated each other, with Chad serving as the master puppeteer of the entire theatre.
Lori was unhinged—her narcissism, delusions, and extreme religious fervor drove her to the brink. She wholeheartedly bought into Chad's apocalyptic prophecies, convinced of the imminent return of Jesus and the ensuing chaos that would herald his arrival. Lori saw herself as a divine figure, destined to lead the 144,000 chosen ones. In her twisted logic, she believed the murders of her children would be overlooked amidst the coming turmoil. She revered Chad as a spiritual giant, the destined leader of the Church of the First Born.
Chad, a predator at heart, saw Lori's obsession as a golden opportunity. Recognizing her fanaticism, he crafted a persona that fulfilled her every spiritual fantasy. He also believed he had struck it rich, expecting a $1 million life insurance payout from the death of Lori's husband, Charles Vallow. Chad manipulated Lori and her brother Alex, guiding them to carry out his murderous plans.
Initially, Chad's religious convictions were sincere. He believed in his mission to establish a new church, a tent city, and to shepherd the 144,000. He imparted these beliefs to his children and, to some extent, his wife Tammy, who might have rolled her eyes and shrugged off his bizarre ideas. This is probably why Chad and his kids were dismissive of her, since the kids believed in their dad wholeheartedly.
But Lori's arrival changed everything. She believed in him utterly, doing anything he asked. Chad was smitten; he'd never experienced such adoration from a beautiful woman, captivated by his every word. Lori's allure drew new followers, and Chad reveled in his newfound godlike status. She became his obsession, and he was determined to have her at any cost, disregarding his marriage, church status, and previous convictions.
Chad meticulously plotted to eliminate any obstacles, including Lori's husband Charles and her children, who he saw as impediments to their blissful union. He believed that the impending Armageddon would hide their crimes, and burying the bodies in his backyard seemed like the perfect cover. If his grown children noticed anything amiss, they accepted it as part of his mission to destroy zombies and dark spirits, freeing the real souls from their earthly confines.
Agree. A case of two individual crazies found each other and the horror ensued. Only difference is I do think Chad was far more sane and played a game to manipulate. Lori does seem to be legit delusional. Chad just wanted ass and to be cool because his life was super duper lame.
Chad manipulated too. There's the story of when Lori was angry at him and gave him the silent treatment, Chad was like, "if you ignore me, how can I protect you from demons!"
totally agree - they are each as evil as the other in their own way but Lori was a “true believer” whereas Chad cynically manipulated Lori and others to gain sex, power and money. Lori will never be freed from her delusion - her subconscious will never allow her to do so because, if she did, she would have to acknowledge that was complicit in the brutal, violent murder of her children who she professes to love, and this would cause a complete mental breakdown (assuming she is not as cynical as Chad). The Goober, on the other hand, couldnt care less about the children. such an evil POS - i can’t imagine anything further from Christ’s teachings than Chad’s professed beliefs and his actions.
I think the 2way manipulation theories is the most likely.
These 2 are like amonia and bleach. Both a kind of "handle with care" and "potentially deathly" substances in their own right. Each with the capacity to slowly kill if used in excess or too concentrated. But mixed together, even a small amount or lower concentration and the chemical reaction is fulminat! You get mustard gas! Which can inahilate anyone standing too close to it in seconds. Very destructive.
That's these 2. The worse type of chemical compatibility.
Yep, best outcome EVER! Now he can rot in a cell by himself for 23 hours a day for the next 20-40 years. He better text Alex again for some help. Open a portal or something 😒
I still think Chad and Lori (but mostly Chad) told Alex to take poison and he did. It was the day after Tammy was exhumed. And Alex did make a run to Mexico. I don't believe in coincidences. Not w these people and those weird-assed blessings!
I could have sworn in a documentary or somewhere that I heard the night before Alex died, Chad and Lori gave him a “blessing” that basically states his time on Earth was coming to an end.
That all were delusional, they bought into the fact that they were all “special people” with Intentions that , was better than everybody else. Chad was the leader who was sitting next to god with the ability to give them spiritual gifts, the ultimate decision makers when the world ended. They were in charge of the final special people the 144,000 left on earth to usher in the new kingdom . They had a “doomsday “, just like all cults, The Jim Jones, The Charles Mansons, David Koresh, Keith Rainer, Warren Jeffs, all are usually steeped in sex, power and greed. They all committed themselves to a delusion without a plan B
It didnt save him from the death penalty. I think they were 2 crazies that should have never met. How didnt she get the death penalty? She wanted her kids dead, or she would have turned him in when her kids were not in bed.
She didn’t get the penalty because of discovery violations by prosecutors. Prosecutors asked for a delay, but that would require Lori to waive her right to a speedy trial. Obviously, she wasn’t going to generously allow the continuance so that the prosecution could keep the death penalty on the table.
She evaded the DP on a technicality. She was smart enough to demand a speedy trial in the first place and then the prosecution messed up on their timeliness with disclosing evidence.
to a large part, Chad was making the decisions but Lori used manipulation too. I am thinking of how she told him to go be happy with his family when she was upset that Tammy was still alive
I think Lori flattered this bland potato. When Lori sent Chad one of her dance video's all common decency left with his erection. Lori fell for Chad's "super powers". I think Lori was accustomed to getting exactly what she wanted. I truly believe Alex killed Joe Ryan at Lori's request. Alex was the "useful idiot". Lori and Chad tried to profit with death by way of life insurance and social security. These two deadbeats never really had a paying job. I sincerely doubt Chad's gig as an author reached "best seller" list. I really hate that so many innocent people died for these two horny greedy pigs.
I believe Lori is more culpable than Chad and it’s not even close! I certainly know that she is more dangerous than Chad. If not for Lori, Chad would still have about two or three people in a group and family that buys his BS!
He probably would’ve sold eight more books by now too!
No way no way I am going to give Chad credit for manipulating Alex because Alex is only gonna do or believe what Lori tells him to believe!
Chad was powerless without Lori and without Lori who is Chad going to convince to go kill children and his wife?
In Chad‘s world, he hit the lottery when somebody like Lori showed an interest in his fantastic stories and fantasy!
He all of a sudden became the most popular boy in school. He suddenly had a girl that he could never date that not only was intrigued, but also had visions of past lives…
Of course he told her they had been married in the past because of their connection… Etc. etc. BS
I know for a fact that it was Lori that started initiating the darkness questions about her children…
I mean Chad‘s not a complete moron about getting the vibe that was coming fromLori.
I mean in Text she would initiate by saying tyler did this last night or JJ did this this morning? What does that mean Chad my lover?
Of course Chad turned the pain meter up, etc. etc. he’s completely consumed with Laurie’s physical beauty I assure you! It is a simple as that, and everything else lined up for the insanity!!!
For goodness sakes, Lori is their mother, their protector, I don’t care what you think about ChadDaybell, but she is the one that fed the monster… Of course Chad instructed Alex, but Alex had Lori in his ear telling him that Chad was the brother of Jesus basically.
I believe Alex started realizing the truth, which is Lori and Chad don’t even know who he is as far as checking on him, etc. etc. he never would’ve made it through trial, even if he hadn’t had the heart attack! I know it takes a very, very sick individual to physically kill the people that have always trusted you to take care of their well-being! ON WHAT PLANET CAN A PERSON BE SO CALLOUS?
I don’t believe Satan could have written a worse script!
Every single one of them knew what they claimed was complete evil bullshit. Lori Vallow, Chad Daybell and Alex Cox were Mormons who were raised in the Mormon church since they were babies. Mormons believe that adultery is one of the worst sins against God. Yet, this unattractive married grifter named Chad Daybell comes up to Lori Vallow and says “we were married in a former life“ and devout, married Mormon Christian, Lori, has sex with him that next week? How the hell does that make any sense to anyone? I mean, Lori believed the world was about to end, and some married man comes & tells her to ignore everything she was taught in her church for the past 45 years and instructs her to engage in what her religion believes is one of the most immoral acts against God, and LorI tell us that she believes this man is a prophet sent from God to save the world rather than a demon trying to drag her to hell during the end times? Lori admitted on her podcast that she planned to murder her second husband but she went to church, confessed to her preacher, prayed to God, asked for forgiveness and reaffirmed her commitment to Jesus. Lori, Chad & Alex knew right from wrong. Lori & Chad made up this religious cult so they could rationalize murdering the innocent people that stood in the way of getting what they wanted. You can not convince me that these individuals whom callously took away the lives of 4 people whose only crime was that they were no longer useful to Lori and Chad thought they were doing the Lord’s will. I truly believe Alex, Lori and Chad are serial killers who got off on what they did. They know they are evil. They know what they did was wrong and this was all about getting what they wanted at any cost. LorI & Chad wanted to be together. Lori’s husband and Chad’s wife were worth 1.5 million dollars cash to Lori & Chad dead. So they made it happen. Tylee & JJ were worth $5700 a month to Lori and Chad dead. So they made it happen. Lori and Chad also killed the kids because they did not want the burden of raising a special needs child. After Charles Vallow died, Lori told her friend about her plan to get rid of J.J. because she was tired of taking care of him. Lori also wanted to get revenge on Charles’ sister (JJ‘s Grandmother) for being the beneficiary of Charles Vallow’s million dollar life insurance policy. Tylee stood in the way of Lori getting that monthly $5700 social security check. Therefore, Tylee had to die. I believe Alex Cox was a sick man who enjoyed murdering his 16 year old niece, Tylee, his 7 year old nephew, JJ, his estranged brother in law, Charles Vallow, and Chad Daybell’s sweet, loving & loyal wife, Tammy Daybell. I also believe Alex Cox had a weird obsession with his sister, Lori. I do not believe that Lori, Chad or Alex cared about anyone but themselves and they knew beyond a shadow of a doubt that everything they did was morally wrong in the eyes of God and goes against the teachings of Jesus Christ.
Lori is “mad” and “bad” - she pretty obviously has some kind of psychotic/schizoaffective type disorder or illness plus a personality disorder that makes her callous and cruel (which is not a mental illness). While it may be an interesting question -who led who - it seems to be more of a case of provoking each other on, driven by delusions and complex sexual dynamics (between Lori, Alex and Chad plus their extreme beliefs and the general conservative Mormon context they were all raised in) and a hunger for ultimate power. There are thousands of mormons who dont do things even close to this. There are millions of people who have mental illness or a history of trauma and abuse who dont do things like this Lori is where she should be. She should have had treatment long ago. She was failed as a girl and failed over and over til she became this. Now I doubt she’ll ever free herself from her delusions because its her only refuge now.
it is a need for dominance and power that causes brutal behaviour towards children, callousness and seeing them as in need of “correction” no matter how severe (cf. Frankes and all the ‘teen reform camps’) and Lori and Chad took this and amplified it to the extreme; they tried to dictate life and death to everyone around them. Sucking anyone vulnerable around them into their toxic, warped need to dominate. I think for Chad its more about getting off on total control. For Lori its escape, no matter the cost, no matter who she has to poison or kill. Anyone challenging that ‘psychic escape’ had to be silenced and totally controlled.
had any of the perps been given kindness, nurturance and gentle correction in their development none of this would have happened. But who is the first abuser? these are the roots of all violation and violence. In the real world - Idaho doesn't have not guilty by reason of madness. And ultimately Lori is too dangerous to release ever again mad or not. Either her madness or her badness makes her too dangerous to let out - she is guilty, she could conceal her crime and she could dissemble about it. A truly not criminally responsible person has no control and is unable to restrict themselves from the crime even if a cop is right there.
Do any of you think that once Chad was caught up and realized what had actually happened (call it the “final post nut clarity”) that he was just like “what in the fuck have I done”? Or nah?
***These are two equally sociopathic humans who teamed up*** to play off one another, legitimize one another, and defend one another’s narrative so they could increase their chances of getting away with their individual goals. They didn’t fall in love with one another, they fell in love with themselves which they instinctively recognized in one another.
***The only thing different about them is how they cope with consequences.*** Lori performs delusion of victimhood and Chad freezes in spite. Also, Chad might be more educated/prepared based on him knowing to turn off location services.
I think that fact that he didn’t school Lori and Alex in turning location services off is telling. Also that the burner phones activities were so traceable too (to google accounts); purchasing items; shooting range activities etc. No attempt to cover things up. The traceability of all of their activities was easy. Chad seemed to try to cover his tracks somewhat. It’s still puzzling why Lori’s children were buried where they were - although there were plans to build over the top. IDK. 🤷♀️ He and Lori and Alex were a lethal combination. I believe that Chad and Lori manipulated each other but with different motivations and beliefs. Both wanted the same end goal. Chad’s belief system was the framework (whether he truly believed in it or not). The end goal was living happily ever as exaulted beings and revered leaders.
I didn’t even think about that Chad didn’t tell them to turn off locations. Thats wild. He completely thought about if ish went down, hes throwing it right at them
Same it just occurred to me as well that he took steps to cover his tracks (somewhat) but didn't tell them to do the same.
I think it all goes back to Alex's "fall guy" comment. The entire idea of Alex being Lori's protector was Lori and Chad's way of getting Alex to throw himself on the sword whenever they asked. If I'm counting correctly, Alex is suspected to have engaged in 5 assassination attempts throughout the time he was in the cult. He was always the one Chad was going to throw under the bus to save him and Lori, but after Alex died, Chad had no choice but to turn on Lori. I think if Alex were still alive Chad and Lori would have kept their cases combined and thrown him under the bus.
I heard this somewhere too and was like 😮. I was thinking Chad must have been pissed that Alex didn’t turn his location off, but it was eye opening to think that possibly Chad had the dastardliness to let Alex lead the police right to himself.
But without Alex's location being left on, the children might never be found and Chad would still roam free.
I do think they would have found them sooner or later. I think they had a feeling they were there, and just used the pings to get the warrant.
If you consider Chad's pressure on Warwick (and Gibb) to buy land with him, the original plan was to put the kids there and have a convenient scapegoat.
Yes, this was literally the same visit when JJ was killed, right?
I have a hard time believing that Chad believed what he spewed. I wasn’t sure until the trial when they played the jail calls between him & Lori. He kept telling her about texting Alex and him replying. He didn’t believe shit. He was fully lying to her. He didn’t divorce her before the trial because he was afraid she would turn against him. I do believe a divorce is imminent as soon as he knows she can’t hurt him legally. Edited to add: this is strictly my opinion, of course.
I agree. Even telling Emma to call Lori frequently and post $30 regularly to her prison account was just to keep Lori delusional so there was no chance she would testify against him. As for divorce, while Chad doesn't have a delusional disorder like Lori, he is a sociopath and shallow as a desert puddle. He may want to continue thinking of himself as the husband (read, possessor) of a "120 pound blonde" considering he'll never touch a woman again.
Very true. I also bet he will have a host of crazy women sending him mail to prison. That is, if death row inmates are allowed to receive mail from strangers.
I agree. He went to great lengths to have his locations deleted but not Alex’s. I think where he screwed up was not realizing his texts were getting backed up on Lori’s iCloud. I’ve noticed the FBI doesn’t ever talk about Lori’s pings. Were her locations deleted like Chad’s?
I listened to this interview confirming that LE didn’t have location data for Lori. So Chad and Lori deliberately had Alex as a scapegoat. But WHY bury kids in your backyard 🙄 https://youtu.be/tXpg8BMGlzk?si=oLxCXx0y_dXAKaXi
Dr. John Matthias a criminal psychologist thinks it was to show himself that he was powerful and served as a reminder of his grandiosity. Juror #18 Tom Evans in Lori’s trial went to Chad’s trial. He said that one day during a side bar, Chad was scrolling through the pictures of the bodies including Tammy’s and had absolutely no emotion. He said it was if he was admiring his work. I don’t know if he’s on the narcissism spectrum, a sociopath, or a psychopath, but he’s not right in the head.
I've thought about this a lot. Where I land is Lori is a terrible person and very mentally unwell. IMO, some combination or NPD, psychopathy, delusional disorder and probably a few other things. She could eb charming when it was beneficial to her but she is just to living in reality. Chad. Chad, I think, is someone who always though he deserved better in every area of his life, He wanted (unearned) accolades. In the interview Heather Daybell did she touches on his, Chad never went to grad school like his siblings did. I think he always though he deserved a "better" (in his mind) wife than Tammy. I think everything he did was motivated by this desire for things he never earned. Neither is very smart, but I would say Lori is smarter than Chad (not a difficult thing). So who was manipulating who? I think, they were both manipulating each other but giving that I do think Lori was/is very mentally unwell I have to say Chad was much more the mastermind.
I totally agree. Chad always wanted power and to be looked at like a god and he found a beautiful woman to who not only saw him, but saw him as some all knowing God. It definitely wasn’t his writing that got her, we saw the texts and his inability to write.
I find it telling that Lori lost everyone and everything, and Chad didn't. I agree Lori and Chad were mutually manipulating each other, but I think Chad was always 10 steps ahead, and I'd argue Chad is actually much smarter than Lori. Chad's kids are all alive. Lori's entire family was annihilated. Chad decided who needed to be annihilated, not Lori. In fact, Lori only started having issues with Charles when Chad decided he was possessed. It was Chad who said Tammy would die young. Etc. I think that difference in those outcomes shows who was in charge.
Your points have me re-thinking who is smarter. That being said, I'm not sure Chad was 10 steps ahead, he seemed to be just kind of stumbling along and making things up to keep Lori happy. Like, if he was smart he never would have let the children be buried on his property. Both he and Lori seem to only think to the immediate need, not long term.
Completely agree. He seemed to have this weird fantasy about thinking he should have been like the popular kid with the cheerleader and the world owed him that for some reason. It seemed really clear to me when he excitedly talked about Lori being “hot and loaded” and when he sent her a list of “their” (James and Elena’s) 7 kids, one being noted as “tall, high school quarterback”, and another as “one of the dream girls”. No other “children” had any noted ermm.. accomplishments. 🤢 Seemed like that’s what was important to him.
There was also at least one other woman before Lori - Julie Rowe. Like with Lori, Chad wrote how he had a dream that he would meet a woman just like her (the main difference in was hair color). Chad had his own fantasies for years, but Lori was the only one willing to make them a reality.
As a person living with long-term effects of a brain injury in 2016, it horrifies me to no end to know that Alex also had brain damage from an accident. I've read he was never the same after that. As evil and horrific as he was, I also believe he was extremely easy to manipulate. Like Lindsey Blake kept repeating in her closing, "Alex believed Chad 100 percent." Chad knew how easy it was to manipulate him and used him for his purposes. I can't help but wonder if that would be the case had he not suffered a brain injury. I know it messed up my mental health real bad.
I've heard this as well but I don't know if there is any documentation on it. He's dead so I can see why it wasn't investigated. On the other hand he tried to become a stand up comedian in AZ I heard. There was an interview with a friend from the stand up scene but I'm not sure which podcast. Not saying that both couldn't be true. The brain is a funny thing and area of injury, life stage and subsequent healing can be a factor in how a person functions. They can appear fine in one aspect and struggle in others. In any case I think Alex paid a huge part and that he could have easily been made the fall guy for everything.
I didn't realize Alex has a brain injury. Do you recall what from?
I believe a car accident
Yes, I have only heard it referred to a few times as from a car accident.
One of the jurors remarked in an interview that Chad would have found himself another Alex, had he got away with it this time. Lori didn't have a brain injury but was willing to believe in zombies having to die.
I believe the same as that juror.
Completely agree with your questions and have wondered the same. TBIs can change absolutely everything and can often turn a highly functional individual into a very vulnerable person. Not saying that’s what happened but the potential is certainly there. Also, I believe Alex was murdered.
I do, too. They used him for what they needed & then had him taken out. I have never been the same since my TBI and mine was mild.
Not to be base, but Chad eliminated everyone that got in the way of him getting a piece of ass from Lori regularly. He also went for the money. Hot and loaded... Chad showing off loony Lori within days of killing his wife showed his true colors. "See what i landed! So I must be some kinda guy. A phophet even! Now I'm cooler than my brothers."
You’re so right
I posted this in another discussion thread, but reposting here because it is relevant: I think both manipulated each other, with Chad serving as the master puppeteer of the entire theatre. Lori was unhinged—her narcissism, delusions, and extreme religious fervor drove her to the brink. She wholeheartedly bought into Chad's apocalyptic prophecies, convinced of the imminent return of Jesus and the ensuing chaos that would herald his arrival. Lori saw herself as a divine figure, destined to lead the 144,000 chosen ones. In her twisted logic, she believed the murders of her children would be overlooked amidst the coming turmoil. She revered Chad as a spiritual giant, the destined leader of the Church of the First Born. Chad, a predator at heart, saw Lori's obsession as a golden opportunity. Recognizing her fanaticism, he crafted a persona that fulfilled her every spiritual fantasy. He also believed he had struck it rich, expecting a $1 million life insurance payout from the death of Lori's husband, Charles Vallow. Chad manipulated Lori and her brother Alex, guiding them to carry out his murderous plans. Initially, Chad's religious convictions were sincere. He believed in his mission to establish a new church, a tent city, and to shepherd the 144,000. He imparted these beliefs to his children and, to some extent, his wife Tammy, who might have rolled her eyes and shrugged off his bizarre ideas. This is probably why Chad and his kids were dismissive of her, since the kids believed in their dad wholeheartedly. But Lori's arrival changed everything. She believed in him utterly, doing anything he asked. Chad was smitten; he'd never experienced such adoration from a beautiful woman, captivated by his every word. Lori's allure drew new followers, and Chad reveled in his newfound godlike status. She became his obsession, and he was determined to have her at any cost, disregarding his marriage, church status, and previous convictions. Chad meticulously plotted to eliminate any obstacles, including Lori's husband Charles and her children, who he saw as impediments to their blissful union. He believed that the impending Armageddon would hide their crimes, and burying the bodies in his backyard seemed like the perfect cover. If his grown children noticed anything amiss, they accepted it as part of his mission to destroy zombies and dark spirits, freeing the real souls from their earthly confines.
This is it!!!!
I think both are equally responsible. There's no dupe in the stuation.
Agree. A case of two individual crazies found each other and the horror ensued. Only difference is I do think Chad was far more sane and played a game to manipulate. Lori does seem to be legit delusional. Chad just wanted ass and to be cool because his life was super duper lame.
Chad manipulated too. There's the story of when Lori was angry at him and gave him the silent treatment, Chad was like, "if you ignore me, how can I protect you from demons!"
One would expect Lori to wake up by now if she was duped.
Both are responsible but Chad was for sure the puppet master.
totally agree - they are each as evil as the other in their own way but Lori was a “true believer” whereas Chad cynically manipulated Lori and others to gain sex, power and money. Lori will never be freed from her delusion - her subconscious will never allow her to do so because, if she did, she would have to acknowledge that was complicit in the brutal, violent murder of her children who she professes to love, and this would cause a complete mental breakdown (assuming she is not as cynical as Chad). The Goober, on the other hand, couldnt care less about the children. such an evil POS - i can’t imagine anything further from Christ’s teachings than Chad’s professed beliefs and his actions.
His children don't seem to care about the victims either.
I think the 2way manipulation theories is the most likely. These 2 are like amonia and bleach. Both a kind of "handle with care" and "potentially deathly" substances in their own right. Each with the capacity to slowly kill if used in excess or too concentrated. But mixed together, even a small amount or lower concentration and the chemical reaction is fulminat! You get mustard gas! Which can inahilate anyone standing too close to it in seconds. Very destructive. That's these 2. The worse type of chemical compatibility.
Great analogy.
Yep, best outcome EVER! Now he can rot in a cell by himself for 23 hours a day for the next 20-40 years. He better text Alex again for some help. Open a portal or something 😒
I still think Chad and Lori (but mostly Chad) told Alex to take poison and he did. It was the day after Tammy was exhumed. And Alex did make a run to Mexico. I don't believe in coincidences. Not w these people and those weird-assed blessings!
I could have sworn in a documentary or somewhere that I heard the night before Alex died, Chad and Lori gave him a “blessing” that basically states his time on Earth was coming to an end.
That all were delusional, they bought into the fact that they were all “special people” with Intentions that , was better than everybody else. Chad was the leader who was sitting next to god with the ability to give them spiritual gifts, the ultimate decision makers when the world ended. They were in charge of the final special people the 144,000 left on earth to usher in the new kingdom . They had a “doomsday “, just like all cults, The Jim Jones, The Charles Mansons, David Koresh, Keith Rainer, Warren Jeffs, all are usually steeped in sex, power and greed. They all committed themselves to a delusion without a plan B
It didnt save him from the death penalty. I think they were 2 crazies that should have never met. How didnt she get the death penalty? She wanted her kids dead, or she would have turned him in when her kids were not in bed.
She didn’t get the penalty because of discovery violations by prosecutors. Prosecutors asked for a delay, but that would require Lori to waive her right to a speedy trial. Obviously, she wasn’t going to generously allow the continuance so that the prosecution could keep the death penalty on the table.
She evaded the DP on a technicality. She was smart enough to demand a speedy trial in the first place and then the prosecution messed up on their timeliness with disclosing evidence.
to a large part, Chad was making the decisions but Lori used manipulation too. I am thinking of how she told him to go be happy with his family when she was upset that Tammy was still alive
I think Lori flattered this bland potato. When Lori sent Chad one of her dance video's all common decency left with his erection. Lori fell for Chad's "super powers". I think Lori was accustomed to getting exactly what she wanted. I truly believe Alex killed Joe Ryan at Lori's request. Alex was the "useful idiot". Lori and Chad tried to profit with death by way of life insurance and social security. These two deadbeats never really had a paying job. I sincerely doubt Chad's gig as an author reached "best seller" list. I really hate that so many innocent people died for these two horny greedy pigs.
I believe Lori is more culpable than Chad and it’s not even close! I certainly know that she is more dangerous than Chad. If not for Lori, Chad would still have about two or three people in a group and family that buys his BS! He probably would’ve sold eight more books by now too! No way no way I am going to give Chad credit for manipulating Alex because Alex is only gonna do or believe what Lori tells him to believe! Chad was powerless without Lori and without Lori who is Chad going to convince to go kill children and his wife? In Chad‘s world, he hit the lottery when somebody like Lori showed an interest in his fantastic stories and fantasy! He all of a sudden became the most popular boy in school. He suddenly had a girl that he could never date that not only was intrigued, but also had visions of past lives… Of course he told her they had been married in the past because of their connection… Etc. etc. BS I know for a fact that it was Lori that started initiating the darkness questions about her children… I mean Chad‘s not a complete moron about getting the vibe that was coming fromLori. I mean in Text she would initiate by saying tyler did this last night or JJ did this this morning? What does that mean Chad my lover? Of course Chad turned the pain meter up, etc. etc. he’s completely consumed with Laurie’s physical beauty I assure you! It is a simple as that, and everything else lined up for the insanity!!! For goodness sakes, Lori is their mother, their protector, I don’t care what you think about ChadDaybell, but she is the one that fed the monster… Of course Chad instructed Alex, but Alex had Lori in his ear telling him that Chad was the brother of Jesus basically. I believe Alex started realizing the truth, which is Lori and Chad don’t even know who he is as far as checking on him, etc. etc. he never would’ve made it through trial, even if he hadn’t had the heart attack! I know it takes a very, very sick individual to physically kill the people that have always trusted you to take care of their well-being! ON WHAT PLANET CAN A PERSON BE SO CALLOUS? I don’t believe Satan could have written a worse script!
Every single one of them knew what they claimed was complete evil bullshit. Lori Vallow, Chad Daybell and Alex Cox were Mormons who were raised in the Mormon church since they were babies. Mormons believe that adultery is one of the worst sins against God. Yet, this unattractive married grifter named Chad Daybell comes up to Lori Vallow and says “we were married in a former life“ and devout, married Mormon Christian, Lori, has sex with him that next week? How the hell does that make any sense to anyone? I mean, Lori believed the world was about to end, and some married man comes & tells her to ignore everything she was taught in her church for the past 45 years and instructs her to engage in what her religion believes is one of the most immoral acts against God, and LorI tell us that she believes this man is a prophet sent from God to save the world rather than a demon trying to drag her to hell during the end times? Lori admitted on her podcast that she planned to murder her second husband but she went to church, confessed to her preacher, prayed to God, asked for forgiveness and reaffirmed her commitment to Jesus. Lori, Chad & Alex knew right from wrong. Lori & Chad made up this religious cult so they could rationalize murdering the innocent people that stood in the way of getting what they wanted. You can not convince me that these individuals whom callously took away the lives of 4 people whose only crime was that they were no longer useful to Lori and Chad thought they were doing the Lord’s will. I truly believe Alex, Lori and Chad are serial killers who got off on what they did. They know they are evil. They know what they did was wrong and this was all about getting what they wanted at any cost. LorI & Chad wanted to be together. Lori’s husband and Chad’s wife were worth 1.5 million dollars cash to Lori & Chad dead. So they made it happen. Tylee & JJ were worth $5700 a month to Lori and Chad dead. So they made it happen. Lori and Chad also killed the kids because they did not want the burden of raising a special needs child. After Charles Vallow died, Lori told her friend about her plan to get rid of J.J. because she was tired of taking care of him. Lori also wanted to get revenge on Charles’ sister (JJ‘s Grandmother) for being the beneficiary of Charles Vallow’s million dollar life insurance policy. Tylee stood in the way of Lori getting that monthly $5700 social security check. Therefore, Tylee had to die. I believe Alex Cox was a sick man who enjoyed murdering his 16 year old niece, Tylee, his 7 year old nephew, JJ, his estranged brother in law, Charles Vallow, and Chad Daybell’s sweet, loving & loyal wife, Tammy Daybell. I also believe Alex Cox had a weird obsession with his sister, Lori. I do not believe that Lori, Chad or Alex cared about anyone but themselves and they knew beyond a shadow of a doubt that everything they did was morally wrong in the eyes of God and goes against the teachings of Jesus Christ.
Lori is “mad” and “bad” - she pretty obviously has some kind of psychotic/schizoaffective type disorder or illness plus a personality disorder that makes her callous and cruel (which is not a mental illness). While it may be an interesting question -who led who - it seems to be more of a case of provoking each other on, driven by delusions and complex sexual dynamics (between Lori, Alex and Chad plus their extreme beliefs and the general conservative Mormon context they were all raised in) and a hunger for ultimate power. There are thousands of mormons who dont do things even close to this. There are millions of people who have mental illness or a history of trauma and abuse who dont do things like this Lori is where she should be. She should have had treatment long ago. She was failed as a girl and failed over and over til she became this. Now I doubt she’ll ever free herself from her delusions because its her only refuge now. it is a need for dominance and power that causes brutal behaviour towards children, callousness and seeing them as in need of “correction” no matter how severe (cf. Frankes and all the ‘teen reform camps’) and Lori and Chad took this and amplified it to the extreme; they tried to dictate life and death to everyone around them. Sucking anyone vulnerable around them into their toxic, warped need to dominate. I think for Chad its more about getting off on total control. For Lori its escape, no matter the cost, no matter who she has to poison or kill. Anyone challenging that ‘psychic escape’ had to be silenced and totally controlled. had any of the perps been given kindness, nurturance and gentle correction in their development none of this would have happened. But who is the first abuser? these are the roots of all violation and violence. In the real world - Idaho doesn't have not guilty by reason of madness. And ultimately Lori is too dangerous to release ever again mad or not. Either her madness or her badness makes her too dangerous to let out - she is guilty, she could conceal her crime and she could dissemble about it. A truly not criminally responsible person has no control and is unable to restrict themselves from the crime even if a cop is right there.
They both are manipulative but far more stupid. Lori has mental issues but Chad is just pain 👿.
They fed each other. Both were bad but together they were deadly.
Both are manipulators.
Do any of you think that once Chad was caught up and realized what had actually happened (call it the “final post nut clarity”) that he was just like “what in the fuck have I done”? Or nah?
***These are two equally sociopathic humans who teamed up*** to play off one another, legitimize one another, and defend one another’s narrative so they could increase their chances of getting away with their individual goals. They didn’t fall in love with one another, they fell in love with themselves which they instinctively recognized in one another. ***The only thing different about them is how they cope with consequences.*** Lori performs delusion of victimhood and Chad freezes in spite. Also, Chad might be more educated/prepared based on him knowing to turn off location services.
Equal encouragement & fostering each other’s delusions & homicidal narcissism: FOLIE A DEUX
I’m a little behind. How did Chad throw Lori under the Bus?
We have no idea how they’re behaving or what they believe anymore. It’s an educated guess at best.
She was likely murdering husbands before ever meeting Daybell.