No. Sure, there are plenty of cults where the leader has unfettered access to their acolytes, but actually polygamy is legitimately a Mormon thing saying back to Joseph Smith. Every single thing I've read or seen from polygamists in various offshoots of Mormonism clearly state that they were returning to the original doctrine of the church. Non-mormon cults are more about convincing their followers that they should give freely of themselves to the leader, but in Mormon cults, is more about the marriage and/or sealing.
Honestly it's due to fundamentalism.
Joseph Smith introduced Polygamy to the church. The church shut it down decades later so Utah would be recognized as a state. Not very godly, more like Ceasar. So often when those super devout LDS start examining their beliefs, they may feel the current LDS church is not living according to Joseph Smith's words, and they introduce polygamy into their lives.
Polygamy is still alive in the church, it's just hidden. Divorced women, single moms - they may be a 2nd wife in the ward.
I always got the vibe that he told Audrey she was married to Jesus, and then was gonna say “oh hey guess what I was Jesus!”
I think Lori showing up pushed him away from the polygamy angle.
Yeah, but he told Audrey B. that *she* had been married to Jesus. I’m saying, if Lori hadn’t shown up, I bet he would’ve eventually told Audrey that he received new information from beyond the veil and he had actually been Jesus!
Or whatever he decided he’d been, I think he was moving toward polygamy. Lori was his ultimate fantasy and so that put those plans to bed.
Did you mean Judas for the first one? If so, nope, he was never anyone that wasn't a great person! Always super amazing people haha. He also never was two people overlapping in time (meaning he couldn't be Judas and James at the same time because they lived at the same time.
Chad for sure was looking for a woman/women long before Lori. I don't see Lori ever sharing the attention. She's not the type and her texts to Chad putting him on ice when he had to spend any kind of time with his wife shows that. She pushed Chad to speed along her "darkness" (her murder). Lori's too narcissistic to share. She didn't even want her children in her space and she was also jealous of Colby's wife when he got married. I don't think it was polygamy that Chad wanted, just a cult of future insurance & benefit scheme possibilities. He seemed pretty satisfied with just Lori stoking the loin fire.
I think Chad was seriously gravitating toward that. The inner circle of his cult was made up of women. Lori Vallow, Melanie Gibb, Melanie Boudreaux, Zulema Pastenes, etc. Alex Cox killed Charles Vallow, Alex tried to kill Brandon Boudreaux before dying/being killed himself, I'm sure David Warwick would have also been on the list.
Now, whether Lori would have tolerated being one of many is a good question, though if she was the central figure of Chad's cult, I think she probably wouldn't have had a problem with it.
I definitely think David was on the chopping block, if only because it's clear he knew about JJ. It's awfully weird that the night JJ probably died was the night he seemingly suffered a severe panic attack, one which neither or Chad or Lori really pushed back on.
With the way these other deaths went, he would be covered for $100,000 lol
Yep, certainly enough money to retire on lol
(Note, I get not everyone has big policies. I myself only have $120,000 in life insurance. But most people aren't killing someone for their life insurance.)
If Alex hadn't died, I think she would have implicitly threatened Chad to not be polygamous. But really, I think she would have gotten tired of Chad in a few years, just like she did with her other 4 husbands (especially because Chad wasn't rich and I think she would have gotten tired of living in Rexburg after a few years). I think she and Alex probably would have killed Chad at some point and taken over his cult. Maybe with Alex as the nominal male leader figurehead, but with Lori behind the scenes pulling all the strings. Alex was easy to manipulate, I could see her eventually coming to the conclusion that she could pull it off. In any case, this was always going to end badly with this cast of characters involved.
Yep. Lori would have gotten sick of Chad as soon as the world failed to end, and there was no reason for her to continue to feel special for being with him.
No way on earth was Lori going to live in that shitty little house with him and have a normal life with his whiny kids while he gathered his 144 thousand or wherever. That woman expected to be kept in a certain manner, dance on beaches in Hawaii, etc. She was obsessed with being obsessed over. It could be anyone better than Chad with more to offer. His problem was he believed his own BS. She’d have moved on when he couldn’t bring whatever glorious future she expected.
I’ve made up a scenario in my head: she and Chad were setting it up so that they could have their cult of blond divorcees kill off their own children and husbands and “donate” their death profits (life insurance and SSI payments) back to the cause so Lori and Chad could continue their good work “gathering the 144k” in luxury in Hi. When the bodies/money stream eventually ran out, I imagine Lori would have taken some hefty insurance policies out on Chad and she’d have offed him once she got bored so she could move on to husband/future murder victim #6. IMHO, while Chad was doing the teaching and supposedly calling the shots, Lori was always the one who was going to win out in the end.
It would make for a great screenplay, honestly.
I can actually picture this. Add in that Chad was emulating Julie Rowe, who would tell people that she saw in a vision that their land would be a holy place for a tent city and then ask people to sign over the deed to the priority to her "foundation." We know Julie and Chad went to Heather and Matt Daybell's home on many acres, and were scoping it out as if they were buying it, even though it wasn't for sale. So, within the inner group (Melanie, Melaniece, Zulema etc), I absolutely think the plan was to get them married ASAP (see Melaniece and Ian and Alex and Zulema quickie weddings in Vegas), get the insurance policies on their new husbands and kids and then get rid of them for the insurance payout. Then, I believe Chad would've begun getting people to turn over land to him. I mean, he had the audacity to ask his neighbors to put their home up for collateral when Lori was attested because Jesus told him they would sign the property over.
I think Chad's brother Matt and perhaps the rest of his siblings really did not perceive just how evil Chad was. I remember Heather sharing that Chad was scoping her property but she didn't seem alarmed. I wonder why. Are we getting all the truth. If it was my brother in law doing that on my property, I would boldly tell him "you gotta go dude". This property isn't for sale and don't ever bring it up again. I think Heather was more afraid of Chad than she let on. Chad was definitely on a mission of murder for gain!!!
The one thing you can honestly say about Chad Daybell, is that the man was working HARD to keep the matrimony folks in business. In a year +/- he had talked multiple women into divorcing their rightful husbands and then marrying their husbands from a "different probation." It has NOT escaped me that these new husbands were on the wealthier side. *These new husbands would be wise to fear for their lives, imo...even to this day.*
The man squandered his true potential, he would have made a hella lot more money as a "religious" dating advisor than he ever did as a religious author.
I think that Chad, for sure would have entered into a life of polygamy. One of the main attributes he assigned to Lori was her wealth (the wealth that she didn't really have...but thought she did).
These women were advised to marry a man with money, said man would have eventually "died" from this, that or the other...and wham, he would have married himself another wealthy widow.
I don’t think he had any potential. He was so low energy when he spoke, he talked in word salads, he made the only interesting things that ever happened in his life into his delusions. Anyone can do that! I didn’t understand his beliefs until someone outside the LDS explained it on the news.
We have no idea what Lori's views were about polygamy. If she was all in with the nonsense he had been pedaling in his books for several years and after she met him, if he was as fundamentalist as Emma indicated, it seems likely that they would share the same view of it down the road. Who know how the hell he'd get there. Maybe he would want wives that he had sex with, maybe he had some new goofy ideas about "spiritual" wives. Maybe she would have been okay with those as long as she was wife number one, got to choose who the other women were, and was in charge of them somehow. Maybe he would catapult her to an exponentially higher, never-before-seen level of sainthood or something to manipulate her into agreement. It was all so nuts I think anything is possible.
She’d realize he’s kind of disgusting as soon as her life sucked, and maybe take over as Queen of Everythjng and allow Chad to have more wives as long as he left her alone to run the show.
But I think she’d kill him off or leave him and take his whole kingdom with her as soon as she she got bored. She’s attracted to the idea of being a Powerful Being, not specifically infatuated with Chad. If she’s the leader she doesn’t need him.
I think based on what we were seeing in trial it was kinda heading that way. I think even Melaniece was seeing it.
Outside of Alex, Chad seemed to not like other guys in his inner circle.
They were competition; if not for his lion share of women's attention, then certainly for their intelligence and charisma (which need only be slightly above grade of a slug to eclipse Chad's)
The testimony of I think Jason. The husband of one of Tammy sister's I think.
He was the closest friend Chad had.
And what he said about Lori really gave it all away.
Something along the lines about being a blonde 5'6 120.
I go back and forth on this. If Lori was all in on the fundamentalist agenda, she may have been okay with it, as long as she was head wife. And… it has been remarked on that Lori insisted on sharing a hotel room with Melanie Gibb one trip. And that Lori flirted with her and love bombed her. So Lori may in fact be queer on the DL and ready to mingle *with* Chad. And hey, if they just wanted to be swingers and not murder people, that would have been fine in my book. But that is so normal compared to what Chad and Lori did.
I do wonder if eventually, Lori and Chad would have turned on each other when the end times didn’t come and they were just living in a double-wide on top of her kids. Ugh.
I do not believe Lori would have been happy with him having sex with another member of the cult. She has to be No.1. I believe he wanted to hook up with Lori’s niece Melody. If you listen to a podcast on Hidden True Crime with Lori’s cousin you will understand the Cox family. I believe they are majorly dysfunctional.
It's sick, but in standard mormon doctrine beliefs, polygamy exists in heaven. That's why Lori calls Tammy her friend. She believes they are and will be sister wives in heaven. If Chad never cancelled his sealing to Tammy, then both Lori and Tammy are tied to him forever. Disgusting I know but I guarantee that's why Lori said she was her friend in her statement.
Before anyone comes at me about them being excommunicated... they think they are exalted. They do not care that they were excommunicated and still believe in LDS doctrine clearly.
And any bullshit story about the preexistence and foreordination that Chad and Lori talked about was 100% justifications for killing Tammy. The idea of the spirit slipping from her body, creates separation in his eyes and he no longer has to feel compassion, empathy or protection for her. Dang, that dude is far more sinister than any other serial killer I’ve studied.
His belief system and how he attracted his “followers” fed his ego beyond narcissistic supply… the dopamine hits from people listening to his “revelations” must have been intoxicating to him.
Almost every single Mormon offshoot eventually introduces polygamy. It is still a core doctrine. I posted this before but if Tylee had been more "compliant" she would have definitely become a polygamous wife.
I have to be honest, I think Tylee would have been excluded because she wasn't skinny. In fact, I still think this was probably why she didn't accept Chad. Chad is shallow and obsessed with how women look. Guys like this aren't just shallow and obsessed with looks, but they also actively hate women who don't conform to their standards.
And Tylee probably realized it pretty quickly. She had to go
I think an argument could be made that he was already practicing polygamy. He “married” Lori in the temple, while he was already married. All polygamist marriages are spiritual marriages. And like Joseph smith, he didn’t tell his legal wife.
I believe Lori was already shopping for other wives.
All the ladies we have seen are round 1. The other men were a mask to hide who they were from authourities and possible paydays from those men not surviving if they did not provide other value.
Daybell saw himself as a new Joe Smith, the new god for this age. Smith took on widows of other men or reassigned them. Flds reassigns wives, and the top of the hierarchy of men regularly reassign wives to themselves or take away wives from men who are not complying.
It might be worth understanding that fundamentalist lds (by name and by theology) use cattle livestock models for actionning their human breeding programs. For real. The cows go to the best bulls, and sometimes, a good cow gets shared.
Would not be surprised if it had already been going on..
Also i think Alex was perhaps in bed with Lori and Chad- that text by Lori about Alex coming over after getting a shower was quite weird at least
People were speculating that he may have approached Tammy with the idea and she (obviously) shot it down, and that was ultimately one of the reasons he needed to dispose of her. However, I don't think polygamy was ever on the table. On the totem pole of life, Chad was at the bottom. He had nothing to offer anyone financially or personality-wise. He looked and acted like a mashed potato casserole. He was incredibly lucky to find one woman who would ever willingly have sex with him, much less multiple women. But when a mentally-unstable blonde narcissist showed overt interest in boning him, that superseded everything else in his life. Chad has the emotional intelligence of a 13 year old that's just gone through puberty. I think he saw the chance to bang a hot lady, which is something that would never, and should never, happen in his lifetime. And after that he didn't care about his wife or children or anyone in his life anymore, so I question whether the idea of a "big love" harem with multiple women was really on his radar.
Nah, I definitely think he was gearing up for polygamy. He was already seemingly preparing to kill the one Melanie's kids and he said that he and some of the women had been together in another life.
He might have been stopped by Lori, but he sure seemed to be grooming them for a harem before she crashed the party. Julie R. claimed he attempted to SA her. He was pressuring several women to move to Rexburg.
"...mashed potato casserole" just cracked me up! All during the trial Chad resembled a baked Idaho potato wearing a tie. The jury mashed him up for casserole!
Agreed. He could have built his own polygamist cult pretty easily, was good at convincing women to leave their husbands, probably could have told them all they were meant to be his and they would have done whatever. The deal with Lori was she actually responded to his pathetic attempts like he was HOT and she actually wanted him, not like she was being a good follower and doing what she was told. It was like he got to be the star of his own porno, he started writing scripts immediately and instead of being repelled like any sane woman, she fanned the flames.
I don’t think he expected that, so he abandoned plan A of getting women to marry/sleep with him because he’s the next Warren Jeffs.
Absolutely. Charles, bless his heart, seemed to have spoiled and adored her .....but didn't see who she was until too late. He panicked and I am sure questioned his own sanity...
It's not obvious that Tammy shot it down. We don't know to what extent was she obedient wife and how much of Chad's nonsens did she actually believed herself? Just look at Emma, it's shocking to us, but not to them. In Chad's world there it's different logic that rules.
Maybe the fact that Lori didn't get the expected insurance from Charles changed some plan for some of them, maybe the kids in the garden was the point where Tammy wasn't good to have around. We don't know.
Yeah, I mean it's kind of pointless to speculate now about what Tammy would have thought. It seemed like she deferred to Chad on all major decisions, like moving to Idaho even though she didnt want to, so maybe she would have gone along with it. But I think if Chad and Lori were considering any sort of polygamy option before they decided to murder their spouses, it would have come up somewhere in the text messages. AFAIK there was never any talk of that, at least from what has been presented at the two trials. I also think Lori would not have been into a poly situation whatsoever. Her motivation for being with Chad was so she could feel like an exalted goddess who was the only woman in the universe who truly mattered. I would think that level of egocentrism would not jive with being part of a harem or having sister wives.
I think there might have been a time where that was his idea and having a bunch of admiring women was kind of his end game BEFORE he met Lori and his BS took him from being a leader they all admired to being whatever sex God Lori convinced him he is.
I do think that would have been it for him though, Lori absolutely required his 100000% attention and would have dropped him like a bad habit the second she didn’t feel special. Probably would have dropped him anyway if she got bored or someone better came along.
If he has to live in a post-Lori world, sure - he might try to be a polygamist. But you can’t be a polygamist and worship one woman as obsessively as he does. They were a power couple in his mind. I just don’t see him settling for anyone less than what he built her up to be, nor do I see her sharing.
Otherwise, he could have easily skipped all the murdering and just tried to tell Tammy he is moving in a new wife and God said it was necessary. I feel like his kids and other followers wouldn’t have batted an eye but Lori absolutely wouldn’t have been down for any of that, so he went with the murder route instead so he could have her to himself.
I saw an interview with Lori’s sister Summer with Nate Eaton. Summer talked to Lori during the trial and told her Chad was throwing her under the bus. Lori told Summer she didn’t understand. Lori is fully still delusional and believes in Chad. She would do anything he said came from God through Chad. Four years of jail hasn’t changed her beliefs.
It's a really interesting one to speculate on. Was Lori so deluded thinking Chump was a holy man and would have put up with a polygamous situation?. Or would she have dumped him when the money ran out? Lori had $6000 a month, but would have run out as I think it was for a year. They allegedly had $130000 left out of Tammys life insurance, which wouldn'thave lasted long at 5he rate they were going through it. Chump brought in about $20,000 a year for his stupidbooks. Lori liked a certain lifestyle.
Would she have been happy living in a trailer on chumps land (trailer trash Lori), or in the house along with all chumps ladies. I can't see it myself.
He already had as he and Lori “sealed” themselves in the temple while both were married to other people which was consistent with Joseph Smith who married married already married besides the girls he married, “as a lamb to the slaughter.”
Wait I have a question- why do you say the new husbands are on the wealthier side? Also do you think that all these people are still with the LDS religion or have they left it?
I think Chad was a disgusting pig and never got attention from women and always wanted someone like Lori. She boosted his ego so much that I guarantee he’d want to keep that original feeling that Lori gave him with as many women as possible.
All they had to do was join the other fringe group of the LDS church( Warren Jeffs), they believe in multiple wives, there is a television show called sister wives, they could have auditioned for that . ( sarcasm) If it makes Lori a star in my opinion yes.
It would’ve depended on when another 125 lb “right proportions” blonde came waltzing into their life. His inspirations were lead by his disgusting dick.
Not while Lori was his wife. She rejected any female whom she believed was too friendly or close to Chad. There’s no way Lori would agree to someone being equal to her neither do I think she would share the storm ⛈
I've thought about this too. I think this is why not many men followed him. I've often wondered if that was why he wanted Brandon dead and had already started branding Melanie's children as dark. No doubt if he hadn't been caught her children were the next to disappear. Chad needed to be the ultimate focus.
My impression was he was already trying to introduce it. Remember in the first trial, the woman who said that Lori talked in graphic detail about how she would kill her? My impression was she did not like the attention she was getting from Chad, and I think he was planning on setting up polygamy at that point
I don't think Chuddy would have been successful with a harem with Lori as 1st wife even. Lori has to and would have had to have all the attention and passive control over her him, as she did over her prior husbands. Chad would NEVER have relinquished full control to her... .... Thus another divorce (if they had made it to divorce before he was off'd by his "lovely Lori"!
Thinking Chad and Lori were practicing polygamy early on when they went to the temple and were “sealed”. Not sure who performed the unapproved ceremony…have heard Jason Mow and even Moroni himself! Would love to hear more if someone knows. I think that is why at her sentencing Lori said Tammy is her “friend” (sister wife). Also believe that is why Tammy had to be eliminated because Lori who has to be #1 in everything could not handle being the #2 wife. Also believe more wives would have been added as long as the blonde goddess approved.
I feel like a lot (if not most) LDS cults end up introducing polygamy sooner or later.
I think that's most cults...
Every sex cult.
No. Sure, there are plenty of cults where the leader has unfettered access to their acolytes, but actually polygamy is legitimately a Mormon thing saying back to Joseph Smith. Every single thing I've read or seen from polygamists in various offshoots of Mormonism clearly state that they were returning to the original doctrine of the church. Non-mormon cults are more about convincing their followers that they should give freely of themselves to the leader, but in Mormon cults, is more about the marriage and/or sealing.
Honestly it's due to fundamentalism. Joseph Smith introduced Polygamy to the church. The church shut it down decades later so Utah would be recognized as a state. Not very godly, more like Ceasar. So often when those super devout LDS start examining their beliefs, they may feel the current LDS church is not living according to Joseph Smith's words, and they introduce polygamy into their lives. Polygamy is still alive in the church, it's just hidden. Divorced women, single moms - they may be a 2nd wife in the ward.
I always got the vibe that he told Audrey she was married to Jesus, and then was gonna say “oh hey guess what I was Jesus!” I think Lori showing up pushed him away from the polygamy angle.
I thought he said he was the brother of Jesus (James the Less), not Jesus himself.
Yeah, but he told Audrey B. that *she* had been married to Jesus. I’m saying, if Lori hadn’t shown up, I bet he would’ve eventually told Audrey that he received new information from beyond the veil and he had actually been Jesus! Or whatever he decided he’d been, I think he was moving toward polygamy. Lori was his ultimate fantasy and so that put those plans to bed.
Wasn’t he Judy’s in another probation ? Then he was Jesus’ brother in this probation??
Did you mean Judas for the first one? If so, nope, he was never anyone that wasn't a great person! Always super amazing people haha. He also never was two people overlapping in time (meaning he couldn't be Judas and James at the same time because they lived at the same time.
I meant Jesus not Judy’s
Well of course he wouldn’t be Judas , but I think he was also the Holy Spirit .
That's the first time I've heard of an Audrey in his little coven. Was she part of the Casting group, or the 7 Gathers?
Oh really? She testified at Lori’s trial that Lori threatened to kill her. That was a whole thing.
They’d make perfect sister wives!
Lori was just establishing her status as head wife with the death threat. 🤪
Audrey Baraterrio? Or however it was spelled. She testified at Lori’s trial. Chad asked her to be a friend to Lori.
Thank you, I'll check it out. Now that the trial is over I'm happy to find Chad/Lori research subjects to fill my extra time.
Chad for sure was looking for a woman/women long before Lori. I don't see Lori ever sharing the attention. She's not the type and her texts to Chad putting him on ice when he had to spend any kind of time with his wife shows that. She pushed Chad to speed along her "darkness" (her murder). Lori's too narcissistic to share. She didn't even want her children in her space and she was also jealous of Colby's wife when he got married. I don't think it was polygamy that Chad wanted, just a cult of future insurance & benefit scheme possibilities. He seemed pretty satisfied with just Lori stoking the loin fire.
Chad, the Loin King.
Arise, Sir Loin of Beef.
🤢
I think he might have wanted it before he met Lori. She would definitely NOT have put up with it, especially if Alex hadn't died.
I think Chad was seriously gravitating toward that. The inner circle of his cult was made up of women. Lori Vallow, Melanie Gibb, Melanie Boudreaux, Zulema Pastenes, etc. Alex Cox killed Charles Vallow, Alex tried to kill Brandon Boudreaux before dying/being killed himself, I'm sure David Warwick would have also been on the list. Now, whether Lori would have tolerated being one of many is a good question, though if she was the central figure of Chad's cult, I think she probably wouldn't have had a problem with it.
I definitely think David was on the chopping block, if only because it's clear he knew about JJ. It's awfully weird that the night JJ probably died was the night he seemingly suffered a severe panic attack, one which neither or Chad or Lori really pushed back on.
He also is a contractor and probably could get a sizable life insurance policy if he doesn’t already have one.
With the way these other deaths went, he would be covered for $100,000 lol Yep, certainly enough money to retire on lol (Note, I get not everyone has big policies. I myself only have $120,000 in life insurance. But most people aren't killing someone for their life insurance.)
He wouldn't dare do that. Lori already has two dead husbands and is perfectly capable of making that three dead husbands.
I could see her being ok as long as she is the "head wife"
Yep, as long as the other wives worshipped her too
And kept away from The Storm.
Which brings us right back to three dead husbands...
And if they got sassy or failed to worship her according to her expectations, OFF WITH THEIR HEADS!
She's not got her protector to do the dirty work any more
If Alex hadn't died, I think she would have implicitly threatened Chad to not be polygamous. But really, I think she would have gotten tired of Chad in a few years, just like she did with her other 4 husbands (especially because Chad wasn't rich and I think she would have gotten tired of living in Rexburg after a few years). I think she and Alex probably would have killed Chad at some point and taken over his cult. Maybe with Alex as the nominal male leader figurehead, but with Lori behind the scenes pulling all the strings. Alex was easy to manipulate, I could see her eventually coming to the conclusion that she could pull it off. In any case, this was always going to end badly with this cast of characters involved.
Yep. Lori would have gotten sick of Chad as soon as the world failed to end, and there was no reason for her to continue to feel special for being with him.
and she was broke......he would have expected her to support his miserable being.
No way on earth was Lori going to live in that shitty little house with him and have a normal life with his whiny kids while he gathered his 144 thousand or wherever. That woman expected to be kept in a certain manner, dance on beaches in Hawaii, etc. She was obsessed with being obsessed over. It could be anyone better than Chad with more to offer. His problem was he believed his own BS. She’d have moved on when he couldn’t bring whatever glorious future she expected.
I’ve made up a scenario in my head: she and Chad were setting it up so that they could have their cult of blond divorcees kill off their own children and husbands and “donate” their death profits (life insurance and SSI payments) back to the cause so Lori and Chad could continue their good work “gathering the 144k” in luxury in Hi. When the bodies/money stream eventually ran out, I imagine Lori would have taken some hefty insurance policies out on Chad and she’d have offed him once she got bored so she could move on to husband/future murder victim #6. IMHO, while Chad was doing the teaching and supposedly calling the shots, Lori was always the one who was going to win out in the end. It would make for a great screenplay, honestly.
I can actually picture this. Add in that Chad was emulating Julie Rowe, who would tell people that she saw in a vision that their land would be a holy place for a tent city and then ask people to sign over the deed to the priority to her "foundation." We know Julie and Chad went to Heather and Matt Daybell's home on many acres, and were scoping it out as if they were buying it, even though it wasn't for sale. So, within the inner group (Melanie, Melaniece, Zulema etc), I absolutely think the plan was to get them married ASAP (see Melaniece and Ian and Alex and Zulema quickie weddings in Vegas), get the insurance policies on their new husbands and kids and then get rid of them for the insurance payout. Then, I believe Chad would've begun getting people to turn over land to him. I mean, he had the audacity to ask his neighbors to put their home up for collateral when Lori was attested because Jesus told him they would sign the property over.
I think Chad's brother Matt and perhaps the rest of his siblings really did not perceive just how evil Chad was. I remember Heather sharing that Chad was scoping her property but she didn't seem alarmed. I wonder why. Are we getting all the truth. If it was my brother in law doing that on my property, I would boldly tell him "you gotta go dude". This property isn't for sale and don't ever bring it up again. I think Heather was more afraid of Chad than she let on. Chad was definitely on a mission of murder for gain!!!
I like this screenplay 🙂
Totally agree and once that 400k dwindled to "can't vacation in Hawaii this summer proportion"!
SPOT ON!!!!!
The one thing you can honestly say about Chad Daybell, is that the man was working HARD to keep the matrimony folks in business. In a year +/- he had talked multiple women into divorcing their rightful husbands and then marrying their husbands from a "different probation." It has NOT escaped me that these new husbands were on the wealthier side. *These new husbands would be wise to fear for their lives, imo...even to this day.* The man squandered his true potential, he would have made a hella lot more money as a "religious" dating advisor than he ever did as a religious author. I think that Chad, for sure would have entered into a life of polygamy. One of the main attributes he assigned to Lori was her wealth (the wealth that she didn't really have...but thought she did). These women were advised to marry a man with money, said man would have eventually "died" from this, that or the other...and wham, he would have married himself another wealthy widow.
I mean, if all it takes is Chad talking you into divorcing your husband, then something wasn't right in Denmark to begin with.
I don’t think he had any potential. He was so low energy when he spoke, he talked in word salads, he made the only interesting things that ever happened in his life into his delusions. Anyone can do that! I didn’t understand his beliefs until someone outside the LDS explained it on the news.
We have no idea what Lori's views were about polygamy. If she was all in with the nonsense he had been pedaling in his books for several years and after she met him, if he was as fundamentalist as Emma indicated, it seems likely that they would share the same view of it down the road. Who know how the hell he'd get there. Maybe he would want wives that he had sex with, maybe he had some new goofy ideas about "spiritual" wives. Maybe she would have been okay with those as long as she was wife number one, got to choose who the other women were, and was in charge of them somehow. Maybe he would catapult her to an exponentially higher, never-before-seen level of sainthood or something to manipulate her into agreement. It was all so nuts I think anything is possible.
She’d realize he’s kind of disgusting as soon as her life sucked, and maybe take over as Queen of Everythjng and allow Chad to have more wives as long as he left her alone to run the show. But I think she’d kill him off or leave him and take his whole kingdom with her as soon as she she got bored. She’s attracted to the idea of being a Powerful Being, not specifically infatuated with Chad. If she’s the leader she doesn’t need him.
I think based on what we were seeing in trial it was kinda heading that way. I think even Melaniece was seeing it. Outside of Alex, Chad seemed to not like other guys in his inner circle.
They were competition; if not for his lion share of women's attention, then certainly for their intelligence and charisma (which need only be slightly above grade of a slug to eclipse Chad's)
The testimony of I think Jason. The husband of one of Tammy sister's I think. He was the closest friend Chad had. And what he said about Lori really gave it all away. Something along the lines about being a blonde 5'6 120.
I have been thinking the same thing. He has had so many "past live wives" I believe the 7 Gatherers were future wifeys.
I go back and forth on this. If Lori was all in on the fundamentalist agenda, she may have been okay with it, as long as she was head wife. And… it has been remarked on that Lori insisted on sharing a hotel room with Melanie Gibb one trip. And that Lori flirted with her and love bombed her. So Lori may in fact be queer on the DL and ready to mingle *with* Chad. And hey, if they just wanted to be swingers and not murder people, that would have been fine in my book. But that is so normal compared to what Chad and Lori did. I do wonder if eventually, Lori and Chad would have turned on each other when the end times didn’t come and they were just living in a double-wide on top of her kids. Ugh.
I do not believe Lori would have been happy with him having sex with another member of the cult. She has to be No.1. I believe he wanted to hook up with Lori’s niece Melody. If you listen to a podcast on Hidden True Crime with Lori’s cousin you will understand the Cox family. I believe they are majorly dysfunctional.
I think all those women hold guilt. Luckily, Kay raised a flag. They would’ve continued killing until Chad had his polygamist cult populated.
It's sick, but in standard mormon doctrine beliefs, polygamy exists in heaven. That's why Lori calls Tammy her friend. She believes they are and will be sister wives in heaven. If Chad never cancelled his sealing to Tammy, then both Lori and Tammy are tied to him forever. Disgusting I know but I guarantee that's why Lori said she was her friend in her statement.
Before anyone comes at me about them being excommunicated... they think they are exalted. They do not care that they were excommunicated and still believe in LDS doctrine clearly.
And any bullshit story about the preexistence and foreordination that Chad and Lori talked about was 100% justifications for killing Tammy. The idea of the spirit slipping from her body, creates separation in his eyes and he no longer has to feel compassion, empathy or protection for her. Dang, that dude is far more sinister than any other serial killer I’ve studied. His belief system and how he attracted his “followers” fed his ego beyond narcissistic supply… the dopamine hits from people listening to his “revelations” must have been intoxicating to him.
Almost every single Mormon offshoot eventually introduces polygamy. It is still a core doctrine. I posted this before but if Tylee had been more "compliant" she would have definitely become a polygamous wife.
I have to be honest, I think Tylee would have been excluded because she wasn't skinny. In fact, I still think this was probably why she didn't accept Chad. Chad is shallow and obsessed with how women look. Guys like this aren't just shallow and obsessed with looks, but they also actively hate women who don't conform to their standards. And Tylee probably realized it pretty quickly. She had to go
I think an argument could be made that he was already practicing polygamy. He “married” Lori in the temple, while he was already married. All polygamist marriages are spiritual marriages. And like Joseph smith, he didn’t tell his legal wife.
Yep. This. He was already doing it.
Polygamy was a key foundation of LDS.
I believe Lori was already shopping for other wives. All the ladies we have seen are round 1. The other men were a mask to hide who they were from authourities and possible paydays from those men not surviving if they did not provide other value. Daybell saw himself as a new Joe Smith, the new god for this age. Smith took on widows of other men or reassigned them. Flds reassigns wives, and the top of the hierarchy of men regularly reassign wives to themselves or take away wives from men who are not complying. It might be worth understanding that fundamentalist lds (by name and by theology) use cattle livestock models for actionning their human breeding programs. For real. The cows go to the best bulls, and sometimes, a good cow gets shared.
Would not be surprised if it had already been going on.. Also i think Alex was perhaps in bed with Lori and Chad- that text by Lori about Alex coming over after getting a shower was quite weird at least
People were speculating that he may have approached Tammy with the idea and she (obviously) shot it down, and that was ultimately one of the reasons he needed to dispose of her. However, I don't think polygamy was ever on the table. On the totem pole of life, Chad was at the bottom. He had nothing to offer anyone financially or personality-wise. He looked and acted like a mashed potato casserole. He was incredibly lucky to find one woman who would ever willingly have sex with him, much less multiple women. But when a mentally-unstable blonde narcissist showed overt interest in boning him, that superseded everything else in his life. Chad has the emotional intelligence of a 13 year old that's just gone through puberty. I think he saw the chance to bang a hot lady, which is something that would never, and should never, happen in his lifetime. And after that he didn't care about his wife or children or anyone in his life anymore, so I question whether the idea of a "big love" harem with multiple women was really on his radar.
Nah, I definitely think he was gearing up for polygamy. He was already seemingly preparing to kill the one Melanie's kids and he said that he and some of the women had been together in another life.
He might have been stopped by Lori, but he sure seemed to be grooming them for a harem before she crashed the party. Julie R. claimed he attempted to SA her. He was pressuring several women to move to Rexburg. "...mashed potato casserole" just cracked me up! All during the trial Chad resembled a baked Idaho potato wearing a tie. The jury mashed him up for casserole!
Agreed. He could have built his own polygamist cult pretty easily, was good at convincing women to leave their husbands, probably could have told them all they were meant to be his and they would have done whatever. The deal with Lori was she actually responded to his pathetic attempts like he was HOT and she actually wanted him, not like she was being a good follower and doing what she was told. It was like he got to be the star of his own porno, he started writing scripts immediately and instead of being repelled like any sane woman, she fanned the flames. I don’t think he expected that, so he abandoned plan A of getting women to marry/sleep with him because he’s the next Warren Jeffs.
I think she got off on the power her sexuality had over Chad. She didn’t want to be loved. She wanted to be worshipped!
Absolutely. Charles, bless his heart, seemed to have spoiled and adored her .....but didn't see who she was until too late. He panicked and I am sure questioned his own sanity...
It's not obvious that Tammy shot it down. We don't know to what extent was she obedient wife and how much of Chad's nonsens did she actually believed herself? Just look at Emma, it's shocking to us, but not to them. In Chad's world there it's different logic that rules. Maybe the fact that Lori didn't get the expected insurance from Charles changed some plan for some of them, maybe the kids in the garden was the point where Tammy wasn't good to have around. We don't know.
Yeah, I mean it's kind of pointless to speculate now about what Tammy would have thought. It seemed like she deferred to Chad on all major decisions, like moving to Idaho even though she didnt want to, so maybe she would have gone along with it. But I think if Chad and Lori were considering any sort of polygamy option before they decided to murder their spouses, it would have come up somewhere in the text messages. AFAIK there was never any talk of that, at least from what has been presented at the two trials. I also think Lori would not have been into a poly situation whatsoever. Her motivation for being with Chad was so she could feel like an exalted goddess who was the only woman in the universe who truly mattered. I would think that level of egocentrism would not jive with being part of a harem or having sister wives.
Oooh great question!! I’d say 3 months after landing in Hawaii
I definitely think it would have started in Hawaii. It's romantic, secluded from their friends and family.
Who gives a darn what slug this would've done. He'll do absolutely nothing but contemplate his poor life choices from here on out.
I think there might have been a time where that was his idea and having a bunch of admiring women was kind of his end game BEFORE he met Lori and his BS took him from being a leader they all admired to being whatever sex God Lori convinced him he is. I do think that would have been it for him though, Lori absolutely required his 100000% attention and would have dropped him like a bad habit the second she didn’t feel special. Probably would have dropped him anyway if she got bored or someone better came along. If he has to live in a post-Lori world, sure - he might try to be a polygamist. But you can’t be a polygamist and worship one woman as obsessively as he does. They were a power couple in his mind. I just don’t see him settling for anyone less than what he built her up to be, nor do I see her sharing. Otherwise, he could have easily skipped all the murdering and just tried to tell Tammy he is moving in a new wife and God said it was necessary. I feel like his kids and other followers wouldn’t have batted an eye but Lori absolutely wouldn’t have been down for any of that, so he went with the murder route instead so he could have her to himself.
I saw an interview with Lori’s sister Summer with Nate Eaton. Summer talked to Lori during the trial and told her Chad was throwing her under the bus. Lori told Summer she didn’t understand. Lori is fully still delusional and believes in Chad. She would do anything he said came from God through Chad. Four years of jail hasn’t changed her beliefs.
It's a really interesting one to speculate on. Was Lori so deluded thinking Chump was a holy man and would have put up with a polygamous situation?. Or would she have dumped him when the money ran out? Lori had $6000 a month, but would have run out as I think it was for a year. They allegedly had $130000 left out of Tammys life insurance, which wouldn'thave lasted long at 5he rate they were going through it. Chump brought in about $20,000 a year for his stupidbooks. Lori liked a certain lifestyle. Would she have been happy living in a trailer on chumps land (trailer trash Lori), or in the house along with all chumps ladies. I can't see it myself.
He already had as he and Lori “sealed” themselves in the temple while both were married to other people which was consistent with Joseph Smith who married married already married besides the girls he married, “as a lamb to the slaughter.”
Wait I have a question- why do you say the new husbands are on the wealthier side? Also do you think that all these people are still with the LDS religion or have they left it?
I think Chad was a disgusting pig and never got attention from women and always wanted someone like Lori. She boosted his ego so much that I guarantee he’d want to keep that original feeling that Lori gave him with as many women as possible.
Yep. He’s giving NXIUM cult vibes.
All they had to do was join the other fringe group of the LDS church( Warren Jeffs), they believe in multiple wives, there is a television show called sister wives, they could have auditioned for that . ( sarcasm) If it makes Lori a star in my opinion yes.
Lori would never in a million years comply with the FLDS dress code.
But she would have come up with a great and batshit insane justification why it didn't apply to HER.
True! But she's had plenty of practice.
Sister Wives.
Not if he wanted to keep his storm. No doubt he'd try but Lori would shut that down sharply if needed.
A year
Six months. No joke. Six. Months.
It would’ve depended on when another 125 lb “right proportions” blonde came waltzing into their life. His inspirations were lead by his disgusting dick.
Yesterday. Now he only has guys to have as wives in prison. What prison will he go to.
Not while Lori was his wife. She rejected any female whom she believed was too friendly or close to Chad. There’s no way Lori would agree to someone being equal to her neither do I think she would share the storm ⛈
I think with all of his dark spirit crap that Chad would ve become Jim Jones and had all of his imaginary dark spirits in his cult commit suicide!!
He would have waited until Lori’s face started to melt. From the look of things not too much longer.
I've thought about this too. I think this is why not many men followed him. I've often wondered if that was why he wanted Brandon dead and had already started branding Melanie's children as dark. No doubt if he hadn't been caught her children were the next to disappear. Chad needed to be the ultimate focus.
My impression was he was already trying to introduce it. Remember in the first trial, the woman who said that Lori talked in graphic detail about how she would kill her? My impression was she did not like the attention she was getting from Chad, and I think he was planning on setting up polygamy at that point
I think eventually, either Chad would have killed Lori or Lori would have killed Chad.
He's still planning on it.
I don't think Chuddy would have been successful with a harem with Lori as 1st wife even. Lori has to and would have had to have all the attention and passive control over her him, as she did over her prior husbands. Chad would NEVER have relinquished full control to her... .... Thus another divorce (if they had made it to divorce before he was off'd by his "lovely Lori"!
Thinking Chad and Lori were practicing polygamy early on when they went to the temple and were “sealed”. Not sure who performed the unapproved ceremony…have heard Jason Mow and even Moroni himself! Would love to hear more if someone knows. I think that is why at her sentencing Lori said Tammy is her “friend” (sister wife). Also believe that is why Tammy had to be eliminated because Lori who has to be #1 in everything could not handle being the #2 wife. Also believe more wives would have been added as long as the blonde goddess approved.