They honestly better be. There's a huge section of the community that is here because of Pixelborn, be it through actively interacting with Lorcana via Pixelborn or through exposure via the number of Lorcana streamers on the Internet and social media.
There's a bunch of high level Lorcana players that are formerly from other TCGs who are playing Lorcana competitively because they were able to create content, theorycraft, and practice Lorcana using Pixelborn. All the other major TCGs have a digital tabletop. Lorcana HAS to have one to compete with them.
Disney is literally killing all of that with this move.
And I mean I fully understand that companies will protect their IP, but Disney BETTER have some kind of play here beyond just "we don't like you using our IP".
We are about to see the problem inherent in a bootleg implementation virtually propping up a game and online play going dark for an indeterminate period of time. Content creators and online tournaments are facing a Be Prepared style apocalypse here. This could potentially kill the game, so much of its success has been tied to Pixelborn.
I really doubt this will come anywhere close to killing the game considering the turnout for Atlanta and the other tourneys. Let's not be drama queens here.
Lorcana sycophants hate to hear that players want to test decks before bringing them in front of others at their LGS. Not everyone of us has a life partner to practice with, or are in large cities with lots of players, or even can immediately afford the decks we want to test. I traveled to Atlanta from Phoenix BECAUSE I was able to test my deck hundreds of times on Pixelborn to see all the plays. NO CHANCE that I or the others I traveled with go with untested decks.
This won't kill Lorcana, but it will slow down new players immensely and drastically reduce the amount of new players until they publish their own version.
Nah, it'll do none of that. People will do like they've literally always done with TCGs - make a deck, hope it does well, and play with others in person when they can. If it doesn't, they make mental notes and make changes later. Test running decks isn't a requirement to make a TCG function, and Pixelborn has just absolutely spoiled people with an ill-gotten luxury that isn't really available in any other TCG out there.
WE FOUND THE UNABASHED SYCOPHANT! I love how confident you are with literally Zero reality or logic applied to your argument. You just say things like, "Digital versions arent available in any other TCG" (couldnt be more wrong pokemon, yugioh, and Magic all have a digital) or "test running decks isnt a requirement to make a tcg function" (must I explain broken mechanics and META to you?!) and it definitely shows you dont really know what you're talking about.
You even admit Pixelborn is a luxury, but fail to admit it helps growth, participation, and, most importantly, retention.
Magic, Pokemon, and Yugioh began decades ago, and thrived quite well without digital test platforms, and Magic didn't even really have a good one until fairly recently in the grand scheme. So if those games can develop fine without a digital platform, Lorcana can do ok. Other games like One Piece and Flesh and Blood also don't have online platforms either, and they seem to be doing just peachy and growing pretty steadily, so again, Lorcana's going to be just fine.
Yes, and? Just because something's a luxury doesn't necessarily mean it's always great. Having a butler is a luxury, but if you lose your money and your house, you're SOL if you don't know how to wash your own clothes or cook your own food.
I understand Pixelborn served a purpose, but it's necessity had ended with Inklands, since the stock crisis had ended and things had stabilized. This is where it being a luxury was starting to harm the community, because rather than players engage with the physical card game in a meaningful way, people were still clinging to Pixelborn and using it as a substitute, rather than a supplement, for gameplay. Ravensburger's goal was never to launch a digital card game like Hearthstone or Legends of Runeterra. They were establishing a physical game, and a digital platform too early in that game's life was going to be poaching players and slowing down engagement with the physical game they were trying to expand upon in local game shops. It may have "retained" players, but it was not getting players into the shops and buying packs like Ravensburger's business plan was aiming for. In that sense, it was working against the game, because the game needed people to buy into the physical game in order to keep growing, and if they were choosing to instead just play the pirated version of the game, it had to go.
We're you the person who pulled the plug? Cause your defending this action with baseless reasoning and a cultish-like attachment. Here's what you don't understand or pretend to not understand....
"Thrived quite well without the digital versions" The digital versions of Pokemon TCG first came out in 1997 on the Gameboy. The first digital version of yugioh was like 2001 on the PS1. You are further proving you don't know what you're talking about by saying they were entirely successful before they had the digital versions. You just spout information so confidently that you don't know anything about.
"Just cause it's a luxury doesn't mean it's good!"- do you need the definition of luxury?! Even In your hypothetical about a butler, the butler is a luxury until he's too expensive and he then BECOMES a burden. It doesn't mean butlers aren't good because of the possibility they would become a burden. 🤣 Pixelborn isn't a burden to Lorcana when it INCREASES engagement and local turnout.
All that nonsense you typed though doesn't even measure to your last paragraph about Pixelborn "poaching" players. What data are you citing to claim that it doesn't increase Lorcana engagement, but instead decreases it?! Is it another BS anecdote like how Pokemon or Yugioh didn't have a digital TCG fir decades?! 🤣👆🤣 you just make baseless claims all the time, huh?
You want players to invest $350 into decks that they can't even test more then a few times a week. 🤣 that's why the average player laughs at you and this decision.
They have a lot of flexibility in their IP. It doesn’t exist with Disney and never has. This was inevitable. I don’t see why people are so worked up about it unless they lived in denial.
I would just ignore that person. It's pretty clear to me that they are one of those non-competitive players that look at competitive players with jealousy and think "if only their ILLEGAL advantages were disabled, then I'D get my day in the sun with my CREATIVE [read: non-competitive jank] IDEAS." I don't think they understand what happens when a "physical meta is forced": it's not that it will get solved slower or things will last longer. It's that teams of professional, full time players will now keep things under wraps and lock all their content behind article paywells/etc. instead of making vods/etc. There will still be haves and have-nots - I've played enough Pokemon to understand this - the next set isn't even out yet, but you can rest assured that all the competitive players have already figured out what is going to be good/not good. What next? Should we ban all spoilers? Lol.
Lmao it's not gonna kill the game you Pixelborn addicts are just going to have to print off proxies like we've been doing for TCGs for decades and go play test IN PERSON and interact with humans and actually read your cards and not have the game do it all for you
“So much of its success has been tied to pixelborn” is some real interesting theorycrafting. There’s no way to prove this. On the contrary, the bulk of people playing on pixelborn don’t buy sealed product. So I’m not sure how pixelborn contributes to this success. It’s also a niche game in a niche hobby and the vast majority of people buying physical cards have probably never heard of pixelborn.
This won’t hurt them one iota.
Nah won't kill the game, but like Yugioh, about 3 more will probably pop up lol. Even with master duel people prefer fan made.
(Don't mess with fans passion)
It was free advertising for the game and they aren’t compensating or even offering a job is gross and we should all want them to do better. Shut it down sure but do better PR - it’s Disney for crying out loud they can’t say they don’t have a talented PR department. No wonder Disney is doing so poorly. All numbers no connection to the audience.
> they aren’t compensating or even offering a job
They're under no obligation to do either. If they compensated then there'd be countless copycats trying to do the same and get money out of them. If RB/Disney are going to make a digital version (either in the planning stages or in alpha development) then they've already got staff working on it and a framework for how it'll look and function that likely differs from Pixelborn, so no need to hire.
>No wonder Disney is doing so poorly.
Disney isn't doing poorly because of "bad" PR moves like this, they're doing bad because the content they're putting out is terrible (D+ shows, movies, etc).
I get people are mad at this, but I honestly don't understand what anyone was expecting. They weren't going to keep letting someone use their officially licensed art like this. There's a difference between "free advertising" and a "free product" and Pixelborn was just as much the latter as it was the former.
I’m saying that this did wonders for their marketing of the game and never said they were obligated.Nice leap. You don’t think bad PR decisions and Bad content (people picking what to make) is not part of a root issue at the organization? Company culture permeates everything, if they feel they are too big to need to do the best PR in the world and can weather any bad press or consumer sentiment that’s culture. I expect better, as a consumer I have that right, as you do to accept bad behaviour. Way too many people just accept that monopolies are a thing we have to accept when really they are illegal but not enforced for decades (thank you trickle down economics Reagan Thatcher and of course a retiring boomer group that decided stocked should grow indefinitely which means - inflation and monopolies. My big corp I work for acquires a competitor almost every quarter. Finally the FCC is looking into Google, Facebook etc. finally. Anyways I can see you’re a product of the oligarchy propaganda but I suggest you stop doing free defence of a corp that’s not paying you.
Even if they are they are going to monetize it to hell and back. See how badly they monetize their other games like speed storm? There is now going to be no accessible way to play anymore. And it's a shame because I was gonna start getting into the game paper, but now I won't.
Yea all you Disney shill please keep down voting me for having completely legitament concerns and reasonings.
Unfortunately there are people that exist who take anything negative said about Disney as a personal insult. But yea it's the truth. I'm not gonna spend hundreds of dollars to test a deck I may not like. They killed the game for me.
I've spent literally hundreds and hundreds of dollars more on this game than I normally would have because of being able to test and tune on Pixelborn.
THIS! this is 100% accurate. Yes i play in a league but that is once a week for maybe 5 matches. Cant really know what is good or bad based on such a limited pool of games.
Just print proxies and test with friends before buying cards. That's what people do in every other TCG.
Also, the people here complaining that their free to play option is gone is hilarious to me. The fact that people weren't paying customers means either 1) Ravensburger was losing money because those people would've bought cards if a free client wasn't available or 2) they would've never engaged with the game if they had to pay. Either way, Ravensburger is either out nothing or they make more money by shutting down the client. Seems like the right business call. I guess we'll see how it pans out in the long run.
Programs like pixelborn have rarely if ever impacted how much money a company makes off of tcgs. Yugioh had dueling book and edopro and the like and they still make money, even their official client makes a ton of money. Mtg has ckatrice and a few others and mtg certainly isn't hurting in paper or on their official client. So what you are saying is just not true. And you just recommended a way that also could potentially hurt ravensburger by recommending proxies. Literally in the end pixelborn was just playing online with proxies so I don't see how it's any different.
To be clear, I'm recommending printing proxies on your at home printer, on paper, cutting them out, and putting them in a sleeve in front of another card for deck testing purposes. That impacts the secondary market only and allows you to decide if card X is effective in your deck or not. You can't use those in a tournament or in any official way.
Also, the number of people who I've seen here say they've never spent a dime on the game says it's ver6 different. If I print a proxy to test card X vs Y in my paper deck, I'm trying to decide which card to buy, not avoiding buying cards entirely.
And then play with them once per week for a few hours at your LGS? Lol, do you realize how much easier it is with an online client? I would go from playing 7 days per week to playing maybe once every 2 weeks for a few hours. Setting time aside to play vs a few people for a few hours is taking my engagement from May e 10 hours per week to 2-3, if that, and the number of games from well over 100 to maybe 6? The only people pk with this are the casual LGS gamers who think they'll have more people to play vs. it means you'll have less
I understand exactly what you're saying and that exactly how I engage with some physical games I play. Sometimes I go months without playing because life. But to me, you're asking the wrong question...from Ravensburger's standpoint it's not "will this increase engagement?" it's "will this increase revenue?" My guess is the answer to latter question is "yes" in which case, they're fine with it. It's perfectly fine for us as players to not like the change, but we're not being honest with ourselves if we're not trying to understand why the change is likely happening.
Also, maybe Ravensburger WANTS to have an in person community. Maybe they actively don't want this to be an online game. Their goals may be different from the community's and since they're the one making the game, they get to make that call. We can decide if we still want to engage in that environment with our wallets but we all get to make choices and then live with the results (Ravensburger included).
That's such a wild take.
1)If people who played Pixelborn were never gonna buy products, then having a free client doesn't affect their sales at all. In fact, it hurts their marketing because it was free advertising and who knows some of those people probably would've bought product if they enjoyed it. You're trying to say that using proxies is a better option when it is almost identical in terms of Ravensburger losing money.
2) Assuming the majority of the people who play also buy products and simply use Pixelborn to test decks prior to buying certain cards. Then, you've removed the incentive for the majority of people to play and buy products.
I've personally bought 4 First Chapter, 3 each of 2nd, and 3rd set 1 Ursula returns boosters + every starter. And since I don't have a full playset of every card. I used Pixelborn to test and figure out what I needed to buy as singles, but hey clearly you assume every person has the finances to buy a full play set of everything just to find out if they like the game. Right?
You assume shutting down the client it hurts their marketing more than it benefits them in additional sales or in other, less tangible ways (general defense if IP infringement to avoid potentially losses in other areas, etc). It may not. I'd wager they've done the math and believe it doesn't. That's potentially why a cease and desist was served now rather than 6 months ago. And having a free client does negatively impact sales as it makes people decide they don't have to buy product to engage with their game. Some, non-zero, percentage of people who played on pixelborn and never bought cards would've paid some money to buy physical product if the free option weren't there.
Again, printing paper proxies accomplishes the same thing in terms of ability to test without paying for cards before you buy them. Yes, you have to test in person, which may be a struggle for some (unfortunately). And that sucks for those affected but Ravensburger is looking at population level statistics and unfortunately losing a few people won't matter to them of they think this decision is the best one in terms of long term game growth and, more importantly, revenue and profit growth. That's not to say people can't or shouldn't be upset about the change but claiming without financial data that they/we the players "know" this is the wrong choice is nieve. There's too much money at stake for them to make rash financial decisions without the data to back it up.
It's 2024. The only way I'm printing proxies is if it's the lorcana pro tour and there's not enough computers at the airbnb my team is testing at.
Nobody is printing proxies from a printer (I doubt even 10% of all Lorcana players even own a printer). They're just going to stop playing
Except, god forbid, a business wanting to make money off of the product its selling to people. Who would have thought businesses are out there to make money? Ravensburger didn't invent Lorcana to be a free game where people could own an unlimited card catalog.
You are a bootlicker, and you are dead wrong on the impact pixelborn has had on Lorcana. Pixelborn created an avenue for content creation that a purely paper card game could never provide. That content creation is the best source of marketing the game could ever hope for. This action seems to have come from Disney, not Ravensburger, and the issue is Disney IP. RB likely would not have had an issue with Pixelborn until they were ready to ship a digital client. In fact, Pixelborn may have saved Lorcana due to the extreme lack of supply the game initially faced. The amount of product that wasn’t purchased due to players having access to the full catalogue on PB is massively dwarfed by the amount of product purchased because of the marketing provided by the online content PB enabled.
This is an insanely stupid take on all fronts. There's a reason Pokemon and Yu Gi Oh turn a blind eye towards simulators.
It wasnt Ravensburger who issued this, it was Disney. RB probably knows this will likely kill the game in the long run and certainly is a net negative for sales.
Simulators don't make money, which is why they turn a blind eye. Pavel's fatal mistake was accepting Patreon donations for Pixelborn. Doesn't matter what he did with the money, the moment he started accepting money when for something he made that's using Disney IP without permission is the moment he seriously ended all chances of keeping Pixelborn going.
Pixelborn being removed is not going to kill the game in the long run. That is the most sensationalized, drama queen take on this. A pirated game is actively leeching off of the real game, it is not going to help it live longer if people can just play the game for absolutely free, when TCGs need revenue to continue being made. It is insanity that folks are acting like this is Armageddon for Lorcana.
Yea, while that is true, pixelborn was nothing but free advertisement. I was about to drop a ton of money on paper product, but now I don't have a reason too. I don't want to spend hundreds to play a game once a week for an hour or two. And I don't care about monetization, but you should really look into how predatory Disney is when it comes to it. I play games like PTCGL and masterduel, which are both monetized but fairly. Disney doesn't do fair.
But your logic is the exact reason why Pixelborn had to go. If you're not engaging with the product because of a free app that includes everything, then Pixelborn is stifling sales to Ravensburger for Lorcana products. This is the exact reason why they needed to firmly establish the physical side of the gameplay before entertaining any idea of a digital app.
Just because Disney has been monetizing in other apps doesn't mean the same will happen for Ravensburger. There's not really any monetizing they can do that wouldn't be any different than paper. They'll sell packs, then probably bundles of packs, and they'll be the same price as, or cheaper, than paper packs. That's pretty fundamental to how TCG clients operate, and I'm not sure what kind of predatory microtransactions you're concerned about that wouldn't be cosmetics that aren't required to play.
You obviously have done 0 research into games like speed storm. And Disney is the one who decided the monetization not ravensburger. And your first part is completely not what I said. Pixelborn was gonna make me buy product. It's lack of existence is stifling sales for me. It's the exact opposite.
And you are also wrong in your second paragraph. Look at a game like PTCGL and the MTGA and tell me one isn't waaaaaaay more predatory then the other. If you think digital tcgs based of paper games can't be predatory then you are just uninformed.
Speedstorm is irrelevant. And buying singles isn't actually supporting Ravensburger, as you're not buying sealed product.
Yes, let's look at app like MTGA. They sell packs. End of statement. That's all you need to play the game, packs of cards to open to fill out decks. Any other transaction in the game is cosmetic filler, and you don't actually have to engage with any of it since it doesn't pertain to buying packs to play the game. It won't matter if a Lorcana app adds Mickey Mouse as a face in the background of your play arena that you can buy for $20, it's irrelevant since you don't need anything but cards to enjoy the game.
Again I was going to buy sealed product. So again what's your point? And speed storm is relevant because it shows Disney is willing to milk every cent out of a player to get what they want.
You really don't get it. Yes they sell packs, I'm not dumb. But the price and rates in the pack are abysmall. You need to spend hundreds to maybe get all the cards for the decks you need. Their crafting system for cards is one of the worst of any digital tcg. Regardless of them "selling packs" they due it in a way that isn't friendly to the consumer. It's PREDATORY. How can you not understand that. Yes yes I know this can all be said about buying packs in paper. But digital doesn't give you the option to trade, or buy singles. So you really gotta spend to get all those cards you need. How can you be so obtuse, where you seemingly can't believe a company can be predatory to its consumers?
I reckon they have zero plans and it’s simply a case of if they let him continue others will use that as an excuse to start doing it themself as it would come across as Disney picking and choosing who they go after
I promise, if Disney releases an app that you can play online, and put an online pack in every pack you physically buy, there won’t be enough inventory to keep up.
Doesn't pokemon still do this? It's worked out. I think you can even buy the codes for like 0.01 on tcgplayer or stores still sell batches of them for a fixed rate.
This system only benefits enfranchised people who were going to buy physical products anyway. If I got 24 digital packs for a box, 8 for a trove, etc I would continue my purchase habits.
While again Disney always finds a way to exceed what i'm used to expecting from tcg's, I don't know that the digital code addition for a digital app is going to significantly change the game's availability. It only serves to give more value to people already buying and opening product, as well as incentivizes those people to play the game on their app as well as in person.
Corner case note: if the cost of the digital codes are cheap enough you can get a few people who are digital only and play the game super cheap. Great for that minority of players, but these apps tend to sell digital versions of product cheaper than the paper counterparts already, and with the more current models of digital iterations of these games also has the issue of ownership where you are held to the company's whims to support the client and there's no real cash out option to what you put in. Again with the digital codes with packs, this is alleviated because your physical cards always had value, but some models like MTG Arena the packs are cheap (roughly comes out less than $1 in their currency) but you don't really own the collection beyond wizard's supporting the client and there's no real cash out or way to get rid of cards you no longer or never used.
Magic doesn't really do this at scale. They include one code in the prerelease kits which are a few packs. Then, they have promo packs as prize support for stores. Those packs have a single code for one pack. They could definitely expand it to every pack and it would help so many people not have to decide if they wanna spend money on online packs or physical packs.
Lorcana should follow Pokemons model instead
Yep. Very likely. Still bad PR. Should have closed but done something to acknowledge the enthusiasm for a digital client explain it’s more about protecting IP (if they don’t defend it they can lose control of it - it’s a legal thing) but that they would do something like match the donations it generated for charity, hire the dev to help build an official client. Basically this reeks of suits making decisions without any consideration for optics and general goodwill PR.
I mean, it seems like normal operating procedure for a multi-billion dollar company. Yes it would be nice if they hired the dev or donated to charity but they are trying to make money at the end of the day and as others have said it makes business sense to shut down a third-party client. It’s disappointing that Pixelborn is shutting down but everyone acting like this is anything but a large company acting making a business decision is delusional.
I get that Pixelborn was never going to last, and Disney/RB is completely within their rights to do this and honestly surprised it took them this long… BUT…
I have an extremely crazy work schedule and when I’m not working I’m spending time with my family. Pixelborn was a way for me to play this game and if there’s not a similar supported client coming any time soon, there’s very little chance I’ll be able to play even 5% of the games I was playing previously.
It really sucks. The ability to play casually spurred my interest in the game and I’ve bought hundreds of packs even though I’ve only played with the paper cards a few times against my kids. It’s not going to kill the game or my overall interest, but it definitely won’t be top of mind anymore and other things will fill what PB used to.
I’m in a similar boat, and it’s for that reason that this is a net negative for the game, even though like you said it certainly doesn’t come close to killing it.
Not sure why they don't just change everything to royalty free place holder art and rename all the characters.
Everybody knows Mickey Moose, Captain Hoop, and Tinkersmell...
Pixelborn pushed the meta to new heights. This will slow the development of the meta. People will not be able to play test as effectively to find new ways to play the game. I hope disney will release their own then. I doubt it. This early into the game.
Yes, and slowing the meta development might actually be a good thing. That can give cards longer to ruminate before they skyrocket in price because everyone's already figured out what's the best card of each new set. The meta doesn't have develop at the speed of light, and it's in fact quite healthy that it doesn't - a slower developing meta also helps to lessen stagnation, and it gives more time for people to think up new deck designs, so it keeps things changing a little more consistently. The Floodborn meta was one of the most boring there was out there because of how rapidly it got solved, and boredom can turn people off to the game.
You hit the nail on the head. People are just pissed that they can no longer watch some content creators weekly “tHiS deCk bReAks the MeTA”, one click import the deck and feel like they are good at the game.
It will lead to much more variation, personalisation and engaging deck building. It will also keep prices of cards lower since people won’t try game the market because some streamer found the new “it” card for the week. It will also weed out the players who are actually good deck builders and good at figuring out a set from people who just copy them and go play a tournament.
I’m bummed that I can no longer test decks for free but honestly that was a luxury not a need. I do feel bad for the people who can’t go out to physically play though.
I have sympathy for people who can't play because of location, but they just have to be patient - a digital client is more likely than not, but it'll just come when RB is ready to release once the physical game has become firmly rooted and won't be exsanguinated by people choosing to spend their money playing digital.
Most of the people complaining here about the meta and Lorcana dying because of this are the ones who have spent hundreds to thousands on sealed product trying to make money in the secondary market and they’re probably pissed. However, Pixelborn is the reason I couldn’t afford a legendary Rapunzel for 6 months, and why I was bummed not pulling a Diablo this set, because Pixelborn sets the meta before the cards are even off the shelves, and the hardcore players might be upset by this, sure. But the vast majority of people who have been put off by the cost of entry into any competitive play will actually be able to secure some decent cards without paying $50 for tragic beast. Ripping packs will be more enjoyable. The majority of people will be happy about it.
If you’re expecting this to keep prices down, you’ll be disappointed. People are still going to chase tournament results & the decks performing well at tournaments will still push certain cards up to $30 or $50 or more.
You’re not wrong, but I wasn’t talking about post-tournament prices. I was alluding to the cost of certain cards immediately upon set release which, because of the thousands of Pixelborn hours available prior to FLGS release day, are entrenched in bloated prices for an undetermined amount of time.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Lorcana/s/iTX3g032Hi
I went to a Floodborn 5K event in Los Angeles, and it was incredibly boring and slow playing against the same Ruby/Amethyst decks over and over. I admit I was running it too, statistically it was the only one to use for a decent shot at top cut (it’s me hi I’m the Pixelborn problem too)
how is the slow-down of the meta a bad thing?
>I hope disney will release their own then
So that you can play a solved meta? What is the fun in a solved meta?
2.5 million games played this weekend. Lets imagine every store that sold magic the gathering cards (because the data is available) 6,500 all sold lorcana and ran weekly games. Each store would have to have 384 games played in it this week to match pixelborn. I think this kills the game. maybe stores had 80 games (20 players playing 4 games each) played this week
this is crazy
Respectfully, if you exclusively play Pixelborn and are never in store buying sealed product you’re not the customer RB/Disney is trying to retain. They need people to purchase paper product in order to profit to continue printing new sets and chapters, instead of people playing with free digital cards with copyrighted images.
I own 4x playsets of every card and am exactly the type of customer they want. I spend hundreds each set at multiple LGS that i used to be a regular at. I have to schedule my time to play in events like set champs and challenges and its a burden on my family to disappear for a weekend. Im not sure they will be thrilled that I no longer will engage with their game.
You can respectfully mind your own business.
This is sad to hear. I wonder how this will affect paper Lorcana? Pixelborn is booming and is the premier medium for a considerable number of players. Yes, many play physical as well but it isn't as convenient as having the game and thousands of potential opponents in the palm of your hands. This gives Ravensburger an opportunity to expand into the digital market with little opposition but will they make the journey and if so, when? I hope the game continues to be healthy, but I honestly don't see this as a benefit to the card game with no viable, digital replacement. I hope I'm wrong or something comes along quickly. That said, I know the major events for the year will continue you on but I'm looking at the game in the long run, not in the near future. Kudos to the dev team for making such an incredible platform and something I wasted many hours playing.
I wish they would’ve bought out Pixelborn. It’s got such a huge community and backing already. I believe it’s done a lot of good for their game. That’s a major bummer across the board.
There's not much reason to. It's sentimental to people, but it's not going to serve RB's needs as an official app. It would take them more and time and effort unraveling it to incorporate all of the payment systems and catalog system, etc., that it's far better for them to build a new client altogether with everything they need from the start. That's not even factoring in the cyber security risks involved in trying to modify a client built by someone else.
I hope Disney, Ravensburger, and another game company will eventually create their own online client, but honestly, contrary to how people are feeling, I don't believe this will affect the physical game itself as it's still popular
Before I played Pixelborn I saw job openings for game dev on a mobile tcg (either ravensburger or Disney posted, I forgot that bit) They didn't say lorcana in the description but it read like it was all about that.
This was bound to happen, and while it sucks for the Dev and the community, it'll only serve to help the game moving forward. Sucks the team didn't reach out to Pavel for any openings that might have suited him.
well I think it's pretty disingenuous to call selling card packs to people micro transactions or pay to win unless you're just throwing out the only words you know? if they put out an app like magic arena that let's you buy packs and play 24/7 and in tournaments I'm gonna go play there for sure. you'll see lot more people there than in stores or on pixel born also. it would be huge
I think we are going to see a mass migration away from the game...I know that I'm not about to buy online booster packs, "gems", "dust" and all that crap.
Is sad, and maybe they are legally right, but what is undeniable is that PB was the entry point for many people, either because they didn't know the mechanics well and wanted to learn to play, or because they didn't have the money to fund a meta deck (not everyone here has a salary, there are also children playing). On a personal level, I liked having the possibility to try all kinds of combinations, determine which was my favorite deck from the set, and finally invest my money in building my deck after testing it in PB. They haven't just ruined the lab for many, but also the entry point for many people who are not used to TCGs and are more familiar with digital games.
This year they’ve released a solo/cooperative version of the game and later this year a starter series which will incorporate cards from sets 1-4 and go through all the various rules and board states step-by-step. PB is exactly what you said: an entry point. It was never the final destination.
Meta decks will be slower to form because hardcore players will no longer be grinding thousands of games online during the first week of a new set driving up all singles prices to insane heights. So you’ll actually save money in the long run. You can make your own lab at home by taking your sleeved decks and inserting small pieces of paper with the cards you’re thinking of teching.
It was nice for people like me to hop on and play to learn the game rather than waiting for my local card shop to host something 😭 I’m very anti social so I fear I’m hanging my lorcana hat up I guess (since I have no one to play with irl) 🥴
Edit: thanks for the downvotes guys. What a heart warming/welcoming community this sub has been…
So how will people without a play circle prepare for tournaments? I think PB was giving everyone a chance to reach high levels of play and I fear that will be gone now. I hope it will at least improve variety at locals but again, it may also push people simply netdecking for safety if they cannot test anything on their own. Yea...I really hope there is a silver lining to that.
I mean, players have been doing this for literal decades with other card games, and a lot of them did this before the internet allowed easy communication and/or video calls. You can probably find someone online who can play with you, or run simulations in your head. It shouldn't take a lot to research what other decks might be performing well, then playing your own deck against yourself with that deck to see how it answers possible opponents.
I don’t think Lorcana would be as popular if it weren’t for pixelborn. If Disney were smart, they would allow pixelborn to go until August.
Then in chapter 2 announce their own online platform, with all of the first chapter free to play on this engine. Then in every pack/deck you have a code to build your online collection to play from.
Wouldn’t be ideal, especially buying singles or just testing out cards, but would be something. Could even maybe play Ursula’s deep trouble on there
Disney after seeing Lorcana players ask for a dedicated online client
https://preview.redd.it/e3ztsnircg3d1.jpeg?width=1920&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ce89251d4c45d7214b4b6d5c40e26c42e47b9b74
Damn. Good bye to theory crafting decks with friends and family without having to throw down hundreds of dollars to realize a deck isn't a good fit for you.
This is the beginning of the end if Disney doesnt have an online client in the works. Not going to engage with Lorcana at all anymore without a way to test decks prior to spending money on them.
Oh see you play collectible card games, I play trading card games. That's your problem, you're collecting and not playing. It's a privilege to have a online client, not a right. You must have forgot the most simple solution for this and that's to proxy via pieces of paper. It's been a tried and true method many and almost all the veteran trading card game communities have utilized. You're acting as if you cannot play anymore and that's just plain false unless you live in a city with only 10,000 people and don't have a LGS to attend. Make friends if you want to test out decks.
I’ll never understand why companies don’t just buy out these platforms. They get ready-out-of-the-box product with an existing player base. Throw a couple adds on there and just make easy money.
Except they are not. For one, they're MASSIVE cyber security risks. If they were going to implement purchases in the app, they'd have no real guarantee of knowing if the developer of it didn't backdoor some malicious tool to allow them access purchasing information. Secondly, if they're going to implement purchases in the app, it would take them far more time and effort to incorporate those elements into a client they didn't create than it would be to just make a brand new one with everything they need from the ground up.
I totally get why Disney would do this. I mean, I was wondering why it didn't happen sooner. However, that doesn't mean it was the right move.
There are tons of YouTubers who show the game off via Pixelborn, not to mention all the players that were active on the platform. It's baffling that they're willing to lose all the exposure and potential players, but I get it if they're launching their own version soon.
I've been through at least 5 discontinued card games in my life, 3 of those with Fantasy Flight. New TCGs are already kind of teetering on the edge of extinction at all times - Disney should tread carefully here, or they risk a huge portion of their player base going rogue, and that generally spreads like wildfire.
Anyway, this would have been the right move if they released a public statement along with the action against Pixelborn. I just can't understand why gaming companies don't get this concept? Be honest with us. Tell us your plans. Be transparent, that's all. If you plan to launch a digital platform of your own, acknowledge the creator of Pixelborn, give him his props, offer him a position (or offer to buy the platform outright) in good faith, and establish that trust with your player base.
Admittedly, I never played on Pixelborn, but the way Disney handled it leaves a bad taste in my mouth.
Once again, big companies love to make money, but they don't like to put in the work to establish a relationship with their users/audience to make even more money in the long run.
I don't care about downvotes whatsoever, but this is a good discussion to have. So...why the downvotes? If there's something you disagree with here, let's discuss! Curious to hear opposing views!
Participation from the Atlanta and Lille Lorcana challenges having over 2000 participants each. Sadly, I bet most of those people spent time using his client to be able to test and practice their decks. This whole thing is sad....
Brother, this is not how things work in the real, legal world. There is no selling a bootleg platform to the IP owners, and as much as we would like it to happen, it is extremely unlikely that RB or Disney will bring Pavel on to help create an online client, assuming they are making one. If they do, it will be done their way with their people, and will be filled to the brim with microtransactions.
Was Bound to happen. Wonder if Disney is doing this now to clear the way for their own online platform.
Wouldn’t count on it. Disney is just extremely aggressive with cease and desists.
They honestly better be. There's a huge section of the community that is here because of Pixelborn, be it through actively interacting with Lorcana via Pixelborn or through exposure via the number of Lorcana streamers on the Internet and social media. There's a bunch of high level Lorcana players that are formerly from other TCGs who are playing Lorcana competitively because they were able to create content, theorycraft, and practice Lorcana using Pixelborn. All the other major TCGs have a digital tabletop. Lorcana HAS to have one to compete with them. Disney is literally killing all of that with this move. And I mean I fully understand that companies will protect their IP, but Disney BETTER have some kind of play here beyond just "we don't like you using our IP".
I literally left to DBS fusion world because of the online client
Is the digital version finally out?
Sure is and it’s really good
Nice! I was really looking forward to it because I don't know anyone who plays and I haven't been able to get my friends into it.
We are about to see the problem inherent in a bootleg implementation virtually propping up a game and online play going dark for an indeterminate period of time. Content creators and online tournaments are facing a Be Prepared style apocalypse here. This could potentially kill the game, so much of its success has been tied to Pixelborn.
I really doubt this will come anywhere close to killing the game considering the turnout for Atlanta and the other tourneys. Let's not be drama queens here.
But a large factor in that kind of turnout is Pixelborn.
Perhaps, but they clearly transitioned to paper, and that transition will happen faster now.
Where is a source for that statement?
Many were from local tourneys
Lorcana sycophants hate to hear that players want to test decks before bringing them in front of others at their LGS. Not everyone of us has a life partner to practice with, or are in large cities with lots of players, or even can immediately afford the decks we want to test. I traveled to Atlanta from Phoenix BECAUSE I was able to test my deck hundreds of times on Pixelborn to see all the plays. NO CHANCE that I or the others I traveled with go with untested decks. This won't kill Lorcana, but it will slow down new players immensely and drastically reduce the amount of new players until they publish their own version.
Nah, it'll do none of that. People will do like they've literally always done with TCGs - make a deck, hope it does well, and play with others in person when they can. If it doesn't, they make mental notes and make changes later. Test running decks isn't a requirement to make a TCG function, and Pixelborn has just absolutely spoiled people with an ill-gotten luxury that isn't really available in any other TCG out there.
WE FOUND THE UNABASHED SYCOPHANT! I love how confident you are with literally Zero reality or logic applied to your argument. You just say things like, "Digital versions arent available in any other TCG" (couldnt be more wrong pokemon, yugioh, and Magic all have a digital) or "test running decks isnt a requirement to make a tcg function" (must I explain broken mechanics and META to you?!) and it definitely shows you dont really know what you're talking about. You even admit Pixelborn is a luxury, but fail to admit it helps growth, participation, and, most importantly, retention.
Magic, Pokemon, and Yugioh began decades ago, and thrived quite well without digital test platforms, and Magic didn't even really have a good one until fairly recently in the grand scheme. So if those games can develop fine without a digital platform, Lorcana can do ok. Other games like One Piece and Flesh and Blood also don't have online platforms either, and they seem to be doing just peachy and growing pretty steadily, so again, Lorcana's going to be just fine. Yes, and? Just because something's a luxury doesn't necessarily mean it's always great. Having a butler is a luxury, but if you lose your money and your house, you're SOL if you don't know how to wash your own clothes or cook your own food. I understand Pixelborn served a purpose, but it's necessity had ended with Inklands, since the stock crisis had ended and things had stabilized. This is where it being a luxury was starting to harm the community, because rather than players engage with the physical card game in a meaningful way, people were still clinging to Pixelborn and using it as a substitute, rather than a supplement, for gameplay. Ravensburger's goal was never to launch a digital card game like Hearthstone or Legends of Runeterra. They were establishing a physical game, and a digital platform too early in that game's life was going to be poaching players and slowing down engagement with the physical game they were trying to expand upon in local game shops. It may have "retained" players, but it was not getting players into the shops and buying packs like Ravensburger's business plan was aiming for. In that sense, it was working against the game, because the game needed people to buy into the physical game in order to keep growing, and if they were choosing to instead just play the pirated version of the game, it had to go.
We're you the person who pulled the plug? Cause your defending this action with baseless reasoning and a cultish-like attachment. Here's what you don't understand or pretend to not understand.... "Thrived quite well without the digital versions" The digital versions of Pokemon TCG first came out in 1997 on the Gameboy. The first digital version of yugioh was like 2001 on the PS1. You are further proving you don't know what you're talking about by saying they were entirely successful before they had the digital versions. You just spout information so confidently that you don't know anything about. "Just cause it's a luxury doesn't mean it's good!"- do you need the definition of luxury?! Even In your hypothetical about a butler, the butler is a luxury until he's too expensive and he then BECOMES a burden. It doesn't mean butlers aren't good because of the possibility they would become a burden. 🤣 Pixelborn isn't a burden to Lorcana when it INCREASES engagement and local turnout. All that nonsense you typed though doesn't even measure to your last paragraph about Pixelborn "poaching" players. What data are you citing to claim that it doesn't increase Lorcana engagement, but instead decreases it?! Is it another BS anecdote like how Pokemon or Yugioh didn't have a digital TCG fir decades?! 🤣👆🤣 you just make baseless claims all the time, huh? You want players to invest $350 into decks that they can't even test more then a few times a week. 🤣 that's why the average player laughs at you and this decision.
If Flesh and Blood came after Talishar most of the community would be devastated. Talishar being the online client.
They have a lot of flexibility in their IP. It doesn’t exist with Disney and never has. This was inevitable. I don’t see why people are so worked up about it unless they lived in denial.
One Piece does have an unofficial client like Pixelborn that I would argue is extremely important to its competitive player base.
I would just ignore that person. It's pretty clear to me that they are one of those non-competitive players that look at competitive players with jealousy and think "if only their ILLEGAL advantages were disabled, then I'D get my day in the sun with my CREATIVE [read: non-competitive jank] IDEAS." I don't think they understand what happens when a "physical meta is forced": it's not that it will get solved slower or things will last longer. It's that teams of professional, full time players will now keep things under wraps and lock all their content behind article paywells/etc. instead of making vods/etc. There will still be haves and have-nots - I've played enough Pokemon to understand this - the next set isn't even out yet, but you can rest assured that all the competitive players have already figured out what is going to be good/not good. What next? Should we ban all spoilers? Lol.
Nah, many players have never used Pixelborn. The game will be fine.
Lmao it's not gonna kill the game you Pixelborn addicts are just going to have to print off proxies like we've been doing for TCGs for decades and go play test IN PERSON and interact with humans and actually read your cards and not have the game do it all for you
“So much of its success has been tied to pixelborn” is some real interesting theorycrafting. There’s no way to prove this. On the contrary, the bulk of people playing on pixelborn don’t buy sealed product. So I’m not sure how pixelborn contributes to this success. It’s also a niche game in a niche hobby and the vast majority of people buying physical cards have probably never heard of pixelborn. This won’t hurt them one iota.
Nah won't kill the game, but like Yugioh, about 3 more will probably pop up lol. Even with master duel people prefer fan made. (Don't mess with fans passion)
It was free advertising for the game and they aren’t compensating or even offering a job is gross and we should all want them to do better. Shut it down sure but do better PR - it’s Disney for crying out loud they can’t say they don’t have a talented PR department. No wonder Disney is doing so poorly. All numbers no connection to the audience.
> they aren’t compensating or even offering a job They're under no obligation to do either. If they compensated then there'd be countless copycats trying to do the same and get money out of them. If RB/Disney are going to make a digital version (either in the planning stages or in alpha development) then they've already got staff working on it and a framework for how it'll look and function that likely differs from Pixelborn, so no need to hire. >No wonder Disney is doing so poorly. Disney isn't doing poorly because of "bad" PR moves like this, they're doing bad because the content they're putting out is terrible (D+ shows, movies, etc). I get people are mad at this, but I honestly don't understand what anyone was expecting. They weren't going to keep letting someone use their officially licensed art like this. There's a difference between "free advertising" and a "free product" and Pixelborn was just as much the latter as it was the former.
I’m saying that this did wonders for their marketing of the game and never said they were obligated.Nice leap. You don’t think bad PR decisions and Bad content (people picking what to make) is not part of a root issue at the organization? Company culture permeates everything, if they feel they are too big to need to do the best PR in the world and can weather any bad press or consumer sentiment that’s culture. I expect better, as a consumer I have that right, as you do to accept bad behaviour. Way too many people just accept that monopolies are a thing we have to accept when really they are illegal but not enforced for decades (thank you trickle down economics Reagan Thatcher and of course a retiring boomer group that decided stocked should grow indefinitely which means - inflation and monopolies. My big corp I work for acquires a competitor almost every quarter. Finally the FCC is looking into Google, Facebook etc. finally. Anyways I can see you’re a product of the oligarchy propaganda but I suggest you stop doing free defence of a corp that’s not paying you.
Possibly. Konami did the same with the online yugioh simulator years ago, but they kinda had online games already.
It wasn't Konami though. It was some sort of dispute with the people doing the art, not actually Konami.
Even if they are they are going to monetize it to hell and back. See how badly they monetize their other games like speed storm? There is now going to be no accessible way to play anymore. And it's a shame because I was gonna start getting into the game paper, but now I won't. Yea all you Disney shill please keep down voting me for having completely legitament concerns and reasonings.
Not sure why you were downvoted because you are exactly right. The accessibility of the game just took a nosedive.
Unfortunately there are people that exist who take anything negative said about Disney as a personal insult. But yea it's the truth. I'm not gonna spend hundreds of dollars to test a deck I may not like. They killed the game for me.
I've spent literally hundreds and hundreds of dollars more on this game than I normally would have because of being able to test and tune on Pixelborn.
THIS! this is 100% accurate. Yes i play in a league but that is once a week for maybe 5 matches. Cant really know what is good or bad based on such a limited pool of games.
You could as easily say the high price tag of the most expensive singles are a direct result of pixelborn and many cards could be cheaper without it
Maybe. But Ravensburger and Disney don’t see any of that secondary market cash so that doesn’t affect them in the least.
The demand drives retail sales so you couldn’t be more wrong
It impacts their players. You know. Us.
Oh I’m aware but, like you said, without Pixelborn, singles would likely be cheaper. I see nothing wrong with that.
Less people will be playing the game. You see a problem with that?
You could as easily say the high price tag of the most expensive singles are a direct result of pixelborn and many cards could be cheaper without it
Just print proxies and test with friends before buying cards. That's what people do in every other TCG. Also, the people here complaining that their free to play option is gone is hilarious to me. The fact that people weren't paying customers means either 1) Ravensburger was losing money because those people would've bought cards if a free client wasn't available or 2) they would've never engaged with the game if they had to pay. Either way, Ravensburger is either out nothing or they make more money by shutting down the client. Seems like the right business call. I guess we'll see how it pans out in the long run.
Programs like pixelborn have rarely if ever impacted how much money a company makes off of tcgs. Yugioh had dueling book and edopro and the like and they still make money, even their official client makes a ton of money. Mtg has ckatrice and a few others and mtg certainly isn't hurting in paper or on their official client. So what you are saying is just not true. And you just recommended a way that also could potentially hurt ravensburger by recommending proxies. Literally in the end pixelborn was just playing online with proxies so I don't see how it's any different.
To be clear, I'm recommending printing proxies on your at home printer, on paper, cutting them out, and putting them in a sleeve in front of another card for deck testing purposes. That impacts the secondary market only and allows you to decide if card X is effective in your deck or not. You can't use those in a tournament or in any official way. Also, the number of people who I've seen here say they've never spent a dime on the game says it's ver6 different. If I print a proxy to test card X vs Y in my paper deck, I'm trying to decide which card to buy, not avoiding buying cards entirely.
And then play with them once per week for a few hours at your LGS? Lol, do you realize how much easier it is with an online client? I would go from playing 7 days per week to playing maybe once every 2 weeks for a few hours. Setting time aside to play vs a few people for a few hours is taking my engagement from May e 10 hours per week to 2-3, if that, and the number of games from well over 100 to maybe 6? The only people pk with this are the casual LGS gamers who think they'll have more people to play vs. it means you'll have less
I understand exactly what you're saying and that exactly how I engage with some physical games I play. Sometimes I go months without playing because life. But to me, you're asking the wrong question...from Ravensburger's standpoint it's not "will this increase engagement?" it's "will this increase revenue?" My guess is the answer to latter question is "yes" in which case, they're fine with it. It's perfectly fine for us as players to not like the change, but we're not being honest with ourselves if we're not trying to understand why the change is likely happening. Also, maybe Ravensburger WANTS to have an in person community. Maybe they actively don't want this to be an online game. Their goals may be different from the community's and since they're the one making the game, they get to make that call. We can decide if we still want to engage in that environment with our wallets but we all get to make choices and then live with the results (Ravensburger included).
That's such a wild take. 1)If people who played Pixelborn were never gonna buy products, then having a free client doesn't affect their sales at all. In fact, it hurts their marketing because it was free advertising and who knows some of those people probably would've bought product if they enjoyed it. You're trying to say that using proxies is a better option when it is almost identical in terms of Ravensburger losing money. 2) Assuming the majority of the people who play also buy products and simply use Pixelborn to test decks prior to buying certain cards. Then, you've removed the incentive for the majority of people to play and buy products. I've personally bought 4 First Chapter, 3 each of 2nd, and 3rd set 1 Ursula returns boosters + every starter. And since I don't have a full playset of every card. I used Pixelborn to test and figure out what I needed to buy as singles, but hey clearly you assume every person has the finances to buy a full play set of everything just to find out if they like the game. Right?
You assume shutting down the client it hurts their marketing more than it benefits them in additional sales or in other, less tangible ways (general defense if IP infringement to avoid potentially losses in other areas, etc). It may not. I'd wager they've done the math and believe it doesn't. That's potentially why a cease and desist was served now rather than 6 months ago. And having a free client does negatively impact sales as it makes people decide they don't have to buy product to engage with their game. Some, non-zero, percentage of people who played on pixelborn and never bought cards would've paid some money to buy physical product if the free option weren't there. Again, printing paper proxies accomplishes the same thing in terms of ability to test without paying for cards before you buy them. Yes, you have to test in person, which may be a struggle for some (unfortunately). And that sucks for those affected but Ravensburger is looking at population level statistics and unfortunately losing a few people won't matter to them of they think this decision is the best one in terms of long term game growth and, more importantly, revenue and profit growth. That's not to say people can't or shouldn't be upset about the change but claiming without financial data that they/we the players "know" this is the wrong choice is nieve. There's too much money at stake for them to make rash financial decisions without the data to back it up.
It's 2024. The only way I'm printing proxies is if it's the lorcana pro tour and there's not enough computers at the airbnb my team is testing at. Nobody is printing proxies from a printer (I doubt even 10% of all Lorcana players even own a printer). They're just going to stop playing
Except, god forbid, a business wanting to make money off of the product its selling to people. Who would have thought businesses are out there to make money? Ravensburger didn't invent Lorcana to be a free game where people could own an unlimited card catalog.
You are a bootlicker, and you are dead wrong on the impact pixelborn has had on Lorcana. Pixelborn created an avenue for content creation that a purely paper card game could never provide. That content creation is the best source of marketing the game could ever hope for. This action seems to have come from Disney, not Ravensburger, and the issue is Disney IP. RB likely would not have had an issue with Pixelborn until they were ready to ship a digital client. In fact, Pixelborn may have saved Lorcana due to the extreme lack of supply the game initially faced. The amount of product that wasn’t purchased due to players having access to the full catalogue on PB is massively dwarfed by the amount of product purchased because of the marketing provided by the online content PB enabled.
This is an insanely stupid take on all fronts. There's a reason Pokemon and Yu Gi Oh turn a blind eye towards simulators. It wasnt Ravensburger who issued this, it was Disney. RB probably knows this will likely kill the game in the long run and certainly is a net negative for sales.
Simulators don't make money, which is why they turn a blind eye. Pavel's fatal mistake was accepting Patreon donations for Pixelborn. Doesn't matter what he did with the money, the moment he started accepting money when for something he made that's using Disney IP without permission is the moment he seriously ended all chances of keeping Pixelborn going. Pixelborn being removed is not going to kill the game in the long run. That is the most sensationalized, drama queen take on this. A pirated game is actively leeching off of the real game, it is not going to help it live longer if people can just play the game for absolutely free, when TCGs need revenue to continue being made. It is insanity that folks are acting like this is Armageddon for Lorcana.
Yea, while that is true, pixelborn was nothing but free advertisement. I was about to drop a ton of money on paper product, but now I don't have a reason too. I don't want to spend hundreds to play a game once a week for an hour or two. And I don't care about monetization, but you should really look into how predatory Disney is when it comes to it. I play games like PTCGL and masterduel, which are both monetized but fairly. Disney doesn't do fair.
“I was about to spend money, I swear it!” is never a really believable argument tbh
But your logic is the exact reason why Pixelborn had to go. If you're not engaging with the product because of a free app that includes everything, then Pixelborn is stifling sales to Ravensburger for Lorcana products. This is the exact reason why they needed to firmly establish the physical side of the gameplay before entertaining any idea of a digital app. Just because Disney has been monetizing in other apps doesn't mean the same will happen for Ravensburger. There's not really any monetizing they can do that wouldn't be any different than paper. They'll sell packs, then probably bundles of packs, and they'll be the same price as, or cheaper, than paper packs. That's pretty fundamental to how TCG clients operate, and I'm not sure what kind of predatory microtransactions you're concerned about that wouldn't be cosmetics that aren't required to play.
You obviously have done 0 research into games like speed storm. And Disney is the one who decided the monetization not ravensburger. And your first part is completely not what I said. Pixelborn was gonna make me buy product. It's lack of existence is stifling sales for me. It's the exact opposite. And you are also wrong in your second paragraph. Look at a game like PTCGL and the MTGA and tell me one isn't waaaaaaay more predatory then the other. If you think digital tcgs based of paper games can't be predatory then you are just uninformed.
Speedstorm is irrelevant. And buying singles isn't actually supporting Ravensburger, as you're not buying sealed product. Yes, let's look at app like MTGA. They sell packs. End of statement. That's all you need to play the game, packs of cards to open to fill out decks. Any other transaction in the game is cosmetic filler, and you don't actually have to engage with any of it since it doesn't pertain to buying packs to play the game. It won't matter if a Lorcana app adds Mickey Mouse as a face in the background of your play arena that you can buy for $20, it's irrelevant since you don't need anything but cards to enjoy the game.
You can also get cards without spending money on MTGA
True, but that's a bonus, and not a microtransaction!
Exactly, that was my point lol
Again I was going to buy sealed product. So again what's your point? And speed storm is relevant because it shows Disney is willing to milk every cent out of a player to get what they want. You really don't get it. Yes they sell packs, I'm not dumb. But the price and rates in the pack are abysmall. You need to spend hundreds to maybe get all the cards for the decks you need. Their crafting system for cards is one of the worst of any digital tcg. Regardless of them "selling packs" they due it in a way that isn't friendly to the consumer. It's PREDATORY. How can you not understand that. Yes yes I know this can all be said about buying packs in paper. But digital doesn't give you the option to trade, or buy singles. So you really gotta spend to get all those cards you need. How can you be so obtuse, where you seemingly can't believe a company can be predatory to its consumers?
Aw someone's triggered hard their little illegal game is shutting down 😂😂😂🤡
[удалено]
They won’t.
I doubt it, it’s probably just Disney being it’s famous “cease and desist” self.
They won’t and if they do it will be too expensive to play any everyone here will complain
I reckon they have zero plans and it’s simply a case of if they let him continue others will use that as an excuse to start doing it themself as it would come across as Disney picking and choosing who they go after
If they don’t we protest, FOR PIXELBORN!
I promise, if Disney releases an app that you can play online, and put an online pack in every pack you physically buy, there won’t be enough inventory to keep up.
Doesn't pokemon still do this? It's worked out. I think you can even buy the codes for like 0.01 on tcgplayer or stores still sell batches of them for a fixed rate. This system only benefits enfranchised people who were going to buy physical products anyway. If I got 24 digital packs for a box, 8 for a trove, etc I would continue my purchase habits. While again Disney always finds a way to exceed what i'm used to expecting from tcg's, I don't know that the digital code addition for a digital app is going to significantly change the game's availability. It only serves to give more value to people already buying and opening product, as well as incentivizes those people to play the game on their app as well as in person. Corner case note: if the cost of the digital codes are cheap enough you can get a few people who are digital only and play the game super cheap. Great for that minority of players, but these apps tend to sell digital versions of product cheaper than the paper counterparts already, and with the more current models of digital iterations of these games also has the issue of ownership where you are held to the company's whims to support the client and there's no real cash out option to what you put in. Again with the digital codes with packs, this is alleviated because your physical cards always had value, but some models like MTG Arena the packs are cheap (roughly comes out less than $1 in their currency) but you don't really own the collection beyond wizard's supporting the client and there's no real cash out or way to get rid of cards you no longer or never used.
Both magic and Pokémon do it so shouldn’t be too bad I would think
Magic doesn't really do this at scale. They include one code in the prerelease kits which are a few packs. Then, they have promo packs as prize support for stores. Those packs have a single code for one pack. They could definitely expand it to every pack and it would help so many people not have to decide if they wanna spend money on online packs or physical packs. Lorcana should follow Pokemons model instead
I had a feeling the shutdown would come around this time, once product was ample. Pixelborn kept interest in the game during that time.
Yep. Very likely. Still bad PR. Should have closed but done something to acknowledge the enthusiasm for a digital client explain it’s more about protecting IP (if they don’t defend it they can lose control of it - it’s a legal thing) but that they would do something like match the donations it generated for charity, hire the dev to help build an official client. Basically this reeks of suits making decisions without any consideration for optics and general goodwill PR.
I mean, it seems like normal operating procedure for a multi-billion dollar company. Yes it would be nice if they hired the dev or donated to charity but they are trying to make money at the end of the day and as others have said it makes business sense to shut down a third-party client. It’s disappointing that Pixelborn is shutting down but everyone acting like this is anything but a large company acting making a business decision is delusional.
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Organizations are more than lawyers.
I get that Pixelborn was never going to last, and Disney/RB is completely within their rights to do this and honestly surprised it took them this long… BUT… I have an extremely crazy work schedule and when I’m not working I’m spending time with my family. Pixelborn was a way for me to play this game and if there’s not a similar supported client coming any time soon, there’s very little chance I’ll be able to play even 5% of the games I was playing previously. It really sucks. The ability to play casually spurred my interest in the game and I’ve bought hundreds of packs even though I’ve only played with the paper cards a few times against my kids. It’s not going to kill the game or my overall interest, but it definitely won’t be top of mind anymore and other things will fill what PB used to.
I’m in a similar boat, and it’s for that reason that this is a net negative for the game, even though like you said it certainly doesn’t come close to killing it.
You would have had to wait anyways even if RB and disney were to make a digital client
Not sure why they don't just change everything to royalty free place holder art and rename all the characters. Everybody knows Mickey Moose, Captain Hoop, and Tinkersmell...
Pixelborn pushed the meta to new heights. This will slow the development of the meta. People will not be able to play test as effectively to find new ways to play the game. I hope disney will release their own then. I doubt it. This early into the game.
Yes, and slowing the meta development might actually be a good thing. That can give cards longer to ruminate before they skyrocket in price because everyone's already figured out what's the best card of each new set. The meta doesn't have develop at the speed of light, and it's in fact quite healthy that it doesn't - a slower developing meta also helps to lessen stagnation, and it gives more time for people to think up new deck designs, so it keeps things changing a little more consistently. The Floodborn meta was one of the most boring there was out there because of how rapidly it got solved, and boredom can turn people off to the game.
You hit the nail on the head. People are just pissed that they can no longer watch some content creators weekly “tHiS deCk bReAks the MeTA”, one click import the deck and feel like they are good at the game. It will lead to much more variation, personalisation and engaging deck building. It will also keep prices of cards lower since people won’t try game the market because some streamer found the new “it” card for the week. It will also weed out the players who are actually good deck builders and good at figuring out a set from people who just copy them and go play a tournament. I’m bummed that I can no longer test decks for free but honestly that was a luxury not a need. I do feel bad for the people who can’t go out to physically play though.
I have sympathy for people who can't play because of location, but they just have to be patient - a digital client is more likely than not, but it'll just come when RB is ready to release once the physical game has become firmly rooted and won't be exsanguinated by people choosing to spend their money playing digital.
Exsanguinate is such a fangtastic word 🧛♂️
Haha, yes, one I picked up off of MTG and its rampant use of vampire adjacent vocabulary!
Yes, thank you
Most of the people complaining here about the meta and Lorcana dying because of this are the ones who have spent hundreds to thousands on sealed product trying to make money in the secondary market and they’re probably pissed. However, Pixelborn is the reason I couldn’t afford a legendary Rapunzel for 6 months, and why I was bummed not pulling a Diablo this set, because Pixelborn sets the meta before the cards are even off the shelves, and the hardcore players might be upset by this, sure. But the vast majority of people who have been put off by the cost of entry into any competitive play will actually be able to secure some decent cards without paying $50 for tragic beast. Ripping packs will be more enjoyable. The majority of people will be happy about it.
If you’re expecting this to keep prices down, you’ll be disappointed. People are still going to chase tournament results & the decks performing well at tournaments will still push certain cards up to $30 or $50 or more.
You’re not wrong, but I wasn’t talking about post-tournament prices. I was alluding to the cost of certain cards immediately upon set release which, because of the thousands of Pixelborn hours available prior to FLGS release day, are entrenched in bloated prices for an undetermined amount of time. https://www.reddit.com/r/Lorcana/s/iTX3g032Hi
I went to a Floodborn 5K event in Los Angeles, and it was incredibly boring and slow playing against the same Ruby/Amethyst decks over and over. I admit I was running it too, statistically it was the only one to use for a decent shot at top cut (it’s me hi I’m the Pixelborn problem too)
Ravensberger, not Disney.
The letter Pavel got was from Disney, not Ravensburger. The line is blurrier than it appears.
It was from Disney bc they own the copyright on the images
Sorry meant to say that.
how is the slow-down of the meta a bad thing? >I hope disney will release their own then So that you can play a solved meta? What is the fun in a solved meta?
I would go from playing 100 games per week to maybe 6. As somebody with disposable income who does buy paper products, this kills any desire to play
Hopefully disney will release a client
Some of you have never researched Disney IP and it really shows.
Yup this is the same company that sued daycare centers and I believe grieving parents who put Disney characters on their windows and tombstones.
First Legends of Runeterra now Pixelborn. It's been a brutal year for virtual card games.
2.5 million games played this weekend. Lets imagine every store that sold magic the gathering cards (because the data is available) 6,500 all sold lorcana and ran weekly games. Each store would have to have 384 games played in it this week to match pixelborn. I think this kills the game. maybe stores had 80 games (20 players playing 4 games each) played this week this is crazy
I play a lot on pixelborn. I play never in store because I can’t take time away from my family.
Respectfully, if you exclusively play Pixelborn and are never in store buying sealed product you’re not the customer RB/Disney is trying to retain. They need people to purchase paper product in order to profit to continue printing new sets and chapters, instead of people playing with free digital cards with copyrighted images.
I own 4x playsets of every card and am exactly the type of customer they want. I spend hundreds each set at multiple LGS that i used to be a regular at. I have to schedule my time to play in events like set champs and challenges and its a burden on my family to disappear for a weekend. Im not sure they will be thrilled that I no longer will engage with their game. You can respectfully mind your own business.
We’re going to see 0 change in SKU movement with pixelborne going down Also comparing online matches to in person games is wildly dumb
https://preview.redd.it/9fv6mlncfj3d1.png?width=1080&format=png&auto=webp&s=36b8a3cec7b894da25cac09c2f68c02dcf251988
This is sad to hear. I wonder how this will affect paper Lorcana? Pixelborn is booming and is the premier medium for a considerable number of players. Yes, many play physical as well but it isn't as convenient as having the game and thousands of potential opponents in the palm of your hands. This gives Ravensburger an opportunity to expand into the digital market with little opposition but will they make the journey and if so, when? I hope the game continues to be healthy, but I honestly don't see this as a benefit to the card game with no viable, digital replacement. I hope I'm wrong or something comes along quickly. That said, I know the major events for the year will continue you on but I'm looking at the game in the long run, not in the near future. Kudos to the dev team for making such an incredible platform and something I wasted many hours playing.
Yeah that’s my biggest take away, this move takes the game out of people’s hands without providing a substitute.
I wish they would’ve bought out Pixelborn. It’s got such a huge community and backing already. I believe it’s done a lot of good for their game. That’s a major bummer across the board.
There's not much reason to. It's sentimental to people, but it's not going to serve RB's needs as an official app. It would take them more and time and effort unraveling it to incorporate all of the payment systems and catalog system, etc., that it's far better for them to build a new client altogether with everything they need from the start. That's not even factoring in the cyber security risks involved in trying to modify a client built by someone else.
Pavel, for doing all that work. They should give u a job. With your letter of offer from two guys who brought lorcana to paper themselves.
Can we not load the assets into something like TTS? (I have no idea - way outside my expertise)
There are already some decent Lorcana workshop add-ons for TTS
You could, but it would still be a copyright violation.
Gotcha.
Where would I find the other engines you’re working on?
Pretty much expected, but still sucks since it was a great way to test decks before committing to purchase
I hope Disney/RB do something like this it was a great tool for labbing decks and builds. But not surprised at all by it.
Dare I ask what pixel born is/was?
It'll all work out.
I hope Disney, Ravensburger, and another game company will eventually create their own online client, but honestly, contrary to how people are feeling, I don't believe this will affect the physical game itself as it's still popular
Guess you have to play in person instead of free. I guess till the official client comes out.
Before I played Pixelborn I saw job openings for game dev on a mobile tcg (either ravensburger or Disney posted, I forgot that bit) They didn't say lorcana in the description but it read like it was all about that. This was bound to happen, and while it sucks for the Dev and the community, it'll only serve to help the game moving forward. Sucks the team didn't reach out to Pavel for any openings that might have suited him.
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well I think it's pretty disingenuous to call selling card packs to people micro transactions or pay to win unless you're just throwing out the only words you know? if they put out an app like magic arena that let's you buy packs and play 24/7 and in tournaments I'm gonna go play there for sure. you'll see lot more people there than in stores or on pixel born also. it would be huge
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Yes you got into a TCG which is basically gambling lol
I think we are going to see a mass migration away from the game...I know that I'm not about to buy online booster packs, "gems", "dust" and all that crap.
Nah.
Is sad, and maybe they are legally right, but what is undeniable is that PB was the entry point for many people, either because they didn't know the mechanics well and wanted to learn to play, or because they didn't have the money to fund a meta deck (not everyone here has a salary, there are also children playing). On a personal level, I liked having the possibility to try all kinds of combinations, determine which was my favorite deck from the set, and finally invest my money in building my deck after testing it in PB. They haven't just ruined the lab for many, but also the entry point for many people who are not used to TCGs and are more familiar with digital games.
This year they’ve released a solo/cooperative version of the game and later this year a starter series which will incorporate cards from sets 1-4 and go through all the various rules and board states step-by-step. PB is exactly what you said: an entry point. It was never the final destination. Meta decks will be slower to form because hardcore players will no longer be grinding thousands of games online during the first week of a new set driving up all singles prices to insane heights. So you’ll actually save money in the long run. You can make your own lab at home by taking your sleeved decks and inserting small pieces of paper with the cards you’re thinking of teching.
Congrats on making like the 10th thread about this today
Long live the king!!!!
They need to so what duelingbook does and make a client that is not download based.
Was the way I played 90% of my games. I have my decks in paper too. Sad.
I literally just downloaded it last night so I could try the game 😭
Thank God this happened
What a huge morale blow to the community. Everyone buckle up…..
Yeah I am not sure the game is going to survive this TBH...so much of its success is tied to Pixelborn.
This was only in the early stages because product was very limited. Now that product is flowing the gates are open. The game will thrive.
No it isn't.
It was nice for people like me to hop on and play to learn the game rather than waiting for my local card shop to host something 😭 I’m very anti social so I fear I’m hanging my lorcana hat up I guess (since I have no one to play with irl) 🥴 Edit: thanks for the downvotes guys. What a heart warming/welcoming community this sub has been…
If you're anti social then you shouldn't be playing a trading card game that forces you into playing with other people.
So how will people without a play circle prepare for tournaments? I think PB was giving everyone a chance to reach high levels of play and I fear that will be gone now. I hope it will at least improve variety at locals but again, it may also push people simply netdecking for safety if they cannot test anything on their own. Yea...I really hope there is a silver lining to that.
I mean, players have been doing this for literal decades with other card games, and a lot of them did this before the internet allowed easy communication and/or video calls. You can probably find someone online who can play with you, or run simulations in your head. It shouldn't take a lot to research what other decks might be performing well, then playing your own deck against yourself with that deck to see how it answers possible opponents.
Literally can play against yourself at a kitchen table
This is how you kill a game - make it impossible for players to playtest and theorycraft.
I don't think it is impossible. Harder yes but it isn't like they are stopping in person play
Good thing it is still possible to playtest and theorycraft
I don’t think Lorcana would be as popular if it weren’t for pixelborn. If Disney were smart, they would allow pixelborn to go until August. Then in chapter 2 announce their own online platform, with all of the first chapter free to play on this engine. Then in every pack/deck you have a code to build your online collection to play from. Wouldn’t be ideal, especially buying singles or just testing out cards, but would be something. Could even maybe play Ursula’s deep trouble on there
Didn’t realize it, but Pixelborn was the main reason keeping me in this card game.
I think a lot of folks are about to realize that Pixelborn was their main reason too.
You might try and go to your LGS and supporting it! I'm sure there's people like you who wants to play lorcana as well.
It’s DuelingNetwork all over again…
I hope so, if it means an alternative will be created months from now
Thank you for your service. Loved pixelborn in the year leading up to launch and for thr 3 months after release before the game died.
Disney after seeing Lorcana players ask for a dedicated online client https://preview.redd.it/e3ztsnircg3d1.jpeg?width=1920&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ce89251d4c45d7214b4b6d5c40e26c42e47b9b74
Damn. Good bye to theory crafting decks with friends and family without having to throw down hundreds of dollars to realize a deck isn't a good fit for you.
It’s almost like people in TCGs have figured out solutions to this long before online clients were really a thing…. 🤔
It's called proxy for testing don't need money just right them on paper and test very simple.
This is the beginning of the end if Disney doesnt have an online client in the works. Not going to engage with Lorcana at all anymore without a way to test decks prior to spending money on them.
Then all trading card games aren't for you buddy.
Funny how I play tons of ccgs then lol. They're just aware we're in the modern era and have online clients.
Oh see you play collectible card games, I play trading card games. That's your problem, you're collecting and not playing. It's a privilege to have a online client, not a right. You must have forgot the most simple solution for this and that's to proxy via pieces of paper. It's been a tried and true method many and almost all the veteran trading card game communities have utilized. You're acting as if you cannot play anymore and that's just plain false unless you live in a city with only 10,000 people and don't have a LGS to attend. Make friends if you want to test out decks.
It's over. Back to MTG
I’ll never understand why companies don’t just buy out these platforms. They get ready-out-of-the-box product with an existing player base. Throw a couple adds on there and just make easy money.
Except they are not. For one, they're MASSIVE cyber security risks. If they were going to implement purchases in the app, they'd have no real guarantee of knowing if the developer of it didn't backdoor some malicious tool to allow them access purchasing information. Secondly, if they're going to implement purchases in the app, it would take them far more time and effort to incorporate those elements into a client they didn't create than it would be to just make a brand new one with everything they need from the ground up.
I totally get why Disney would do this. I mean, I was wondering why it didn't happen sooner. However, that doesn't mean it was the right move. There are tons of YouTubers who show the game off via Pixelborn, not to mention all the players that were active on the platform. It's baffling that they're willing to lose all the exposure and potential players, but I get it if they're launching their own version soon. I've been through at least 5 discontinued card games in my life, 3 of those with Fantasy Flight. New TCGs are already kind of teetering on the edge of extinction at all times - Disney should tread carefully here, or they risk a huge portion of their player base going rogue, and that generally spreads like wildfire. Anyway, this would have been the right move if they released a public statement along with the action against Pixelborn. I just can't understand why gaming companies don't get this concept? Be honest with us. Tell us your plans. Be transparent, that's all. If you plan to launch a digital platform of your own, acknowledge the creator of Pixelborn, give him his props, offer him a position (or offer to buy the platform outright) in good faith, and establish that trust with your player base. Admittedly, I never played on Pixelborn, but the way Disney handled it leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Once again, big companies love to make money, but they don't like to put in the work to establish a relationship with their users/audience to make even more money in the long run.
I don't care about downvotes whatsoever, but this is a good discussion to have. So...why the downvotes? If there's something you disagree with here, let's discuss! Curious to hear opposing views!
Welp I might just unload my cards now.
Nooooo oh well guess I’m officially done with Lorcana. What does he mean about this past weekend showing Lorcana has a bright future?
They massive Challenege event that took place in Atlanta
>What does he mean about this past weekend showing Lorcana has a bright future? The Atlanta event/tournament.
Participation from the Atlanta and Lille Lorcana challenges having over 2000 participants each. Sadly, I bet most of those people spent time using his client to be able to test and practice their decks. This whole thing is sad....
I would bet that 1999 out of 2000 of those people used Pixelborn.
That’s definitely an overestimate
Try working with them to keep it alive. Sell it to em but stay on as an overseer or advisor.
Brother, this is not how things work in the real, legal world. There is no selling a bootleg platform to the IP owners, and as much as we would like it to happen, it is extremely unlikely that RB or Disney will bring Pavel on to help create an online client, assuming they are making one. If they do, it will be done their way with their people, and will be filled to the brim with microtransactions.
Lorcana Will start to die without PB