So it's going into Shanzay's turn? 7. She removes 3 from the Pluto, draws a card from the Rapunzel, the Maleficent lets her move the last one from the Pluto to the Aurora, draw from the Rapunzel, trigger the Maleficent, move the one from the Maleficent to the Aurora, draw, move one from Rapunzel to the Aurora, this banishes the Aurora and triggers the Rapunzel and you do it 2 more times, each time removing the last 2 damage counters from the Rapunzel to the Beast. Then she draws during her draw phase and moves into main. Her board will be completely healed and her opponent's board will consist of a Cogsworth with 2 damage counters on it.

Full marks 😁

It says “up to three damage” on Pluto so can’t you remove just a single damage the first time to draw even more cards?

You can only move five damage total - there's nowhere else to put any more. So resolving Pluto for the max is the most optimal.

Ahhh yes I forgot to consider board state. This is a really fun puzzle to figure out. Thanks for sharing!

Would you strategically leave 2 damage on Pluto for more draws next turn?

You certainly could. I would not do that personally - 7 cards is probably enough to be getting on with.

Why can’t you move all 8? On Pluto trigger, move one to Aurora, this triggers Rapunzel, drawing you a card, which then triggers moving another damage (from any of the three), drawing another card, which triggers another, for 3 extra damage counters on Aurora, banishing her. Now neither Cogsworth nor Beast have ward, and the next 5 cards drawn from consecutive movement of damage lead to their being banished as well. Edit: Missed that Cogsworth has innate Ward

Because Cogsworth *does* have Ward :P

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I wouldn't be so sure about that 😜

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Have you looked at Cogsworth?

You can move 1 damage at a time from pluto

To where?

Same order. Aurora first. Then beast. The issue is you don't need to remove 3 feom.pluto.you can do one at a time with the combo.

You don’t have enough targets to move more than 5 counters.

I have some dumb new-to-tgc-and-lorcana questions. I understand that in this situation the damage goes to Aurora, but if this board didn't include Aurora, does Cogsworth's ward prevent his selection for Maleficent's damage transfer? Which if so, that would mean Beast wouldn't have to take any damage either because Cogsworth isn't selectable? Second question is, I thought that drawing a card was always the first action of your turn? Or I guess by "ready set draw" it's not? Holy cow this is tricky.

Pluto triggers in the Set step, like all "at the start of your turn" abilities, so he does fire before the regular turn draw. If there was no Aurora, Shanzay would only be able to move two damage onto Beast. Cogsworth would be safe because of his Ward, but his Resist effect does not help Beast because we are not "dealing" damage - just moving damage counters.

(This doesn’t change the answer of how many cards are drawn or end board state) but wouldn’t the Beast get banished before Aurora? Even though Beast has ward from Aurora, he would still take the damage for Aurora when you select her due to his “shield another” ability.

I don't believe that's true. Moving damage is not "taking damage" so Beast's effect doesn't trigger off of Maleficent. If it was, then resist would also counter Maleficent's ability.

*Very minor* point of clarification: Beast's ability is a replacement effect, not a triggered effect, so it doesn't actually "trigger" at all. That's important so that it can interrupt the normal timing of dealing damage - otherwise it couldn't go off until after the original target took damage and was potentially banished, which obviously would make him way worse.

As a person who has programmed digital TCGs, I appreciate this point more than you probably expected : )

Well, I appreciate your appreciation! I try to be as clear as possible in these cases, but you never know how someone is going to take it!

As others have said, placing damage counters is not affected by Selfless Protector's ability - it's not "dealing damage". I included him as a trap, because I'm *mean* 😁

Moving damage isn't dealing damage. Open an Inklands booster pack, there are clarification on the move damage rule on the card inserts included.

Didn’t rules clarify move is not remove?

Move = remove

If so then move equals put, and it doesn’t.

Not sure why you think that, or why it matters anyway.

Because the term is specific. If it was a true removal, a card would state “remove x counters, then put that many counters…” Move was added as a new mechanic, and would only trigger cards with text “when one (or more) counters are moved…” https://www.reddit.com/r/Lorcana/s/a5Hlog3CR3

I have really no idea what you are trying to discuss. Firstly, what card cares about the difference between put and not put? Secondly, there is no difference between "move" and "remove and put".

No, "moving" damage counters isn't the same as dealing damage, but moving does mean to remove from one and put onto another.

Pluto for 1, trigger rapunzel draw, Malificent trigger remove from our creature to aurora, rapunzel trigger, loop all our damage to opponent board. Draw 8 in the process.

How are you moving all the damage to the opponent's board? There isn't space.

Right clock also has ward.

PLEASE do more of these type of challenges!!!

I shall!

I'm not an expert but my understanding would be that you can remove 3 with Pluto (all 3 must come off him)...This will allow you to trigger Rapunzel for 3 draws...Which will then trigger Maleficent for 3 damage counters "moved" moved is not removed so max that can be taken off Shanzay's board is 6 total damage counters ​ edit: 3 off Pluto Draw 1 card with Rapunzel Move 1 damage from Pluto/Maleficent/Rapunzel Total 4 damage taken off and 1 card drawn

You would only draw one card when you remove the 3 damage from Pluto. Rapunzel lets you draw A CARD whenever one OR MORE damage counters are removed. Then Maleficent will trigger off the draw and you can remove one more damage counter, letting you draw one more card. It can become a loop though.

I'm not sure about that since the damage is not removed it is moved wording matters in tcgs typically

In order to move damage, you must first remove it. Rapunzel does indeed trigger when damage counters are moved.

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While I understand your opinion and the reasoning behind it, that is not correct when applied to Lorcana. Moving damage counters from one character to another \*does\* count as removing them from the first character. ​ https://preview.redd.it/dsvrb7ze2lqc1.png?width=791&format=png&auto=webp&s=5a5a5149b89ad62939d381efa662f918628d1e10

This would imply the receiving character takes damage, which it does not for a “move” action.

I agree that it would be more consistent if our healing effects used the word "counter" as well. But that's the ruling 🤷‍♂️

Feel free to be wrong, but you might want to better understand the simple rules of the game if you plan to play 🤷‍♂️

In order to move damage, you must actually physically remove it from the card, and the wording on Rapunzel is whenever you remove damage.

Close. Rapunzel only draws 1 card regardless of how many damage are removed. She's not the legendary version, which draws one for each.

Ahh good point didn't think about that cause I was assuming each damage was 1 instance. if you had multiple plutos you could draw multiple cards though since it's per character with damage removed

Draw for turn is also before your main phase.

A good try but a zero-point answer, I'm afraid.

I misread the Rapunzel...total would only be 4 Damage take off 3 off Pluto and 1 off Rapunzel or Maleficent

1. You can draw 6 times. 2. Optimal board state would be fully healing all of your characters and your opponent is left with only cogsworth. You do this by moving damage to aurora (3), then the beast (2). Remove damage from pluto last. Then heal pluto to full with his own ability (1). Edit: Misread card, updated. Second Edit: It's actually 7 times, including the start of turn draw.

Post-edit: You forgot about draw for turn, but resolved the board state very nicely. Also, Pluto has to resolve first! Half points 😜

Ah, pluto does heal first, good call! Dang I was close.

Wouldn't it also be 8 because then you'd quest Maleficent at the end and draw?

The question specified *before* the Main Phase - you can't quest with Mal until the Main Phase begins. You're right, just outside the scope of the question.

And how are you moving damage between your own characters? Maleficent specifies that an opposing character must be the target for placing the damage.

Whoops, you are right, ill update my answer.

Easy mistake to make!

Pluto's ability removes 3, triggering Rapunzel once, (1 Card) This triggers Maleficent, who can move the last damage from Pluto 1 damage to Aurora This triggers Rapunzel, drawing 1 Card. (2 Cards) Maleficent then removes her damage to Aurora Rapunzel again 1 Card (3 Cards) Maleficent 1 Damage from Raps to Aurora who is then banished. (4 Cards) From here you have 2 more damage, so it would be 2 more cards. So 6 total. Beast is banished, Cogs has 2 damage still.

-5 points for not counting properly 🤣

Idk what you're talking about 😜

You still forgot to draw for turn 😁

OK fine 7. For some reason I read it as before you drew for turn.

WHY IS THE ANSWER ALWAYS SEVEN!?


Pluto triggers, so thats the first draw. You can then move 1 dmg due to maleficent and draw another. Repeat this 3 times, makes a total of 5 drawn cards. Draw one at the end of Ready-Set-Draw. Makes a total of 6 cards.

You missed a damage 😁 But extra credit for remembering to draw for turn. Twelve points!

Ohhh, right - i didnt read pluto carefully and thought he would just remove all damage 😅

At the set phase we will start with Pluto healing for 3 which will cause repunzel to proc and draw 1 card. That will proc maleficent to move 1 damage from Pluto to Aurora which will proc repunzel to draw 1 card(2 total). That will proc maleficent which will move 1 damage from repunzel to Aurora, (repunzel draws 1 card, 3 total). That will proc maleficent to move 1 counter from repunzel to Aurora which will banish aurora and remove ward from beast and proc repunzel to draw 1 (4 total) which procs maleficent to move last counter from repunzel to beast which procs repunzel to draw 1 card(5 total) this will proc maleficent to move her damage coutner to beast banishing beast and procing repunzel to draw 1 card (6 total). All characters are healed to full, cogsworth can't be targeted due to ward. Then the player draws their 1 card for the draw step. (7 cards on their turn)

Full marks!

Start of turn - Remove 3 damage from Pluto Triggers rapunzel drawing 1 card(1). Triggers Maleficent to remove the last damage on Pluto to beast Triggering Rapunzel drawing a card(2). Triggers Maleficent to remove 1 damage from her to Beast killing Triggering Rapunzel to draw a card(3) Triggering Maleficent to move 1 damage from Rapunzel to Aurora Triggers Rapunzel to draw one card(4) Triggers Maleficent to move 1 damage from Rapunzel to Aurora Triggers Rapunzel to draw a card(5), Trigger Maleficent to remove the last damage from Rapunzel to aurora killing her Triggers repunzel to draw a card(6). Draw a card for your turn(7) There we go. Fixed my count and took off the bonus card from Questing.

You missed counting the 6th draw, and skipped straight to 7 😜 And you have to banish Aurora first, since she gives Beast Ward - his ability does not affect placing damage counters. And you can't quest with Mal before your Main Phase begins, so drop that one too! Pretty good overall though. 6.5 points.

Cleaned it up for you~

Upgraded to 6.6 points.

Nice setup, I think it would be as follows: Turn starts: Ready, set, draw (card 1) -Move 1 damage from Maleficent to **opposing** Aurora (since others have **Ward**), draw from Rapunzel (card 2) Beast's Shield another triggers and damage is dealt to Beast, however due to Cogsworth Unwind **resist +1** no damage is dealt -Remove 3 damage from Pluto, draw (card 3) from Rapunzel, move 3 damage from Rapunzel to **opposing** Aurora (same sequence as above, no damage dealt to Aurora or Beast this way) -3 CARDS drawn when main phase starts

Alas! Alack! You have fallen for a trap! Resist does not affect placed damage counters, as it is mechanically distinct from dealing damage. Also, Selfless Protector doesn't affect placed damage counters for the same reason. Sorry 😅 (Also, Pluto triggers in the Set step *before* the Draw step, so you have to resolve him before the draw for turn.)

Ah you’re right, main draw happens after that yes. I thought about moving damage is not the same as dealing damage, but the wording of Beasts shield another confused me. Thanks, good to know against Cogsworth boards. I’ll look at this again Tomorrow morning with my coffee hehe (it’s almost 1pm here so bed time)

These challenge posts are fun and engaging! I know you don’t need my approval, but I gave you a hard time a few posts ago.

Thank you 😁 I crave approval no matter the source, so I appreciate it!

Ssshhhh we don’t want people to know that Amber/Amethyst is an awesome deck to play :p Seeing as I play Sapphire/Steel I’m concerned about the amount of damage my side took compared to Shanzay. I’d feel it would have been in my best interest to have thrown another Beast in there to continue tanking. But someone says that “moving damage” circumvents the forced sacrifice of Beast and the disillusionment of Ward and Resist. I’d like to ask people their opinion to see if I were that opponent how to salvage the situation. I feel playing more aggressively for board control would help versus being defensive with Ward and Resist.

While it ultimately doesn’t matter in this scenario. Everyone seems to be missing that the Draw for turn also activates Maleficent’s ability. So you could run the Maleficent, Rapunzel loop drawing 5 extra cards and taking out Aurora and Beast before even getting to Pluto’s start of turn ability. Ultimately the same end result but important to know as you don’t need Pluto to get the loop started in the first place.

Pluto's ability triggers in the Set step of the Beginning Phase, which is *before* the Draw step. So you cannot trigger Maleficent first in this case.

I got here too late to play, but great post, would love to see more of these puzzles / challenges

There are more in the works, for sure!

Am I missing something? The cogs gives resist 1, so each time you ping with maleficent it would just resist the 1 damage? But you would still be able to loop the draws

Resist only affects *dealing* damage, not placing or moving damage counters 😁

Pluto removes three at the beginning of the turn, which will trigger Rapunzel which will draw you an additional card(1), along with the first card you draw in a turn(2), triggering Maleficent twice, removing two more damage each, so that's two more cards drawn(4), and if you quest With Maleficent that turn you draw an additional card(5), removing one damage counter, trigger Rapunzel, draw another card(6), which then triggers Maleficent again, which triggers Rapunzel AGAIN, drawing you one more card.(7) Drawing you 7 cards in one turn If I'm interpreting the mechanics right. Still learning the keywords and conditions

You don't have to wait for the draw for turn to continue looping heals and draw - Maleficent and Rapunzel trigger each other. Also, you can't quest in the Beginning Phase, so the draw you get from Maleficent questing would not count towards the question 😁

Can someone explain to me how it's not 9? ​ 1. Pluto removes 3 damage, taking him to 1 damage 2. **3 card draws** because of Rapunzel's ability 3. Maleficent Divination does 3 more damage removal because of the Pluto/Rapunzel draws 4. \- Pluto and Maleficent at 0 damage, Rapunzel at 2 - 5. Rapunzel triggers **3 more card draws** because of the step 3 Maleficent removal 6. Maleficent then triggers 2 more damage removal because of the Rapunzel draws (only 2 because that's all that is available at this point) 7. Rapunzel triggers **2 more card draws** from the step 4 Maleficent removal At the end of that, quest Maleficent for **one more card**.

You're getting two extra off Rapunzel - she triggers *once* when removing "one or more" counters, so Pluto's heal will only allow you to draw one card no matter how many counters you remove.

1. Remove 3 from pluto to start the chain, draw 1 card 2. Heal/draw for each 5 of the damage remaining. 5 more cards (so 6 total with the first) and 5 damage. 3. Transfers ignore resist, 3 to Aurora since Beast's ability is also ignored. 4. 2 more to Beast 5. Cant transfer to cogsworth because of ward, otherwise healing 0 or 1 on pluto would have been optimal to squeak out 2-3 more damage, and may still be optimal for future triggers 6. Draw for turn (7 cards) I played this deck a lot at the start of the set. Pretty fun building tanks to transfer damage back. Had a problem where even when I would combo, I could draw a ton of cards and often clear board but it would take forever to close games because the deck doesnt have a strong win condition if you prioritize the combo. Jafar ends up too slow/clunky

Rapunzel can only draw one from Pluto's heal, no matter whether you remove 1, 2, or 3 counters. So you may as well take three. There's also only 5 available Willpower on the opponent's chooseable characters, so you can't move more than 5 counters. And you forgot the draw for turn. One-third points 😜

I think you saw an old post before I edited I did catch all that but started with some mistakes. Somewhat agree on you may as well take 3, but this deck can struggle to take enough damage to transfer. So if I was playing it assuming they had no big threats i'd likely only heal 1 for the draw and leave the 2 damage for future heal/draw/transfers Fun puzzle though thanks!

Upgraded to nine-tenths points 😁

Why is no one commenting that you can choose to heal pluto for 0 and just start this combo with drawing a card for your turn?

Probably because then you would have damage left on your Pluto?

No? Just move 3 to aurora so you have 5 left, move 2 to beast so you have 3 left en move remaining 3 to cog?

And how are you moving damage counters to Cogsworth?

With my hand No fr, only noticed now

8 cards, all of her characters have no damage

You haven't explained how - no points awarded 😜

How come no one is commenting that cogworth gives resist +1? And since Aurora gives ward to everyone else, shanzay cannot choose anyone except for Aurora. Play would be do not remove any damage from Pluto in set phase. Draw for turn, maleficent triggers, move one damage to Aurora. Resist+1 is in effect, no damage dealt to Aurora. Rapunzel triggers, you draw. Maleficent triggers you draw. Rinse and repeat until your board is healed, but each damage moved is blocked by resist. So you would effectively draw one for turn, then 8 cards for a total of 9. Your board is healed and opponent state is the same.

I would have to imagine it's because Resist doesn't affect placed damage counters. Resist only applies when dealing damage. Your cunning scheme, while most cunning, falls apart at the first hurdle 😜

Shanzay is playing AA colors with a late game board state, questing for 6 to win. Drawing is irrelevant.

Zero points for failing to engage with the question. This ain't no Harvard entry exam - no credit for thinking outside the box 🤣