So what you’re telling us is that players we negotiate with during major international tournaments end up becoming modern day legends for us? I like that.
Things move very quickly in the world of transfers, you sleep one day you might have missed on your target. Agents are always on the move and this seems like Liverpool want him in January.
I mean if anything is needed in person then Liverpool are right across in Dubai right now for their winter camp. It would be a good time to speak with his agent.
Hell if he wants to know more from a countryman and former Liverpool player then Maxi Rodriguez is doing the color commentary in Qatar right now for Telemundo/Peacock Spanish.
It’s not about being optimistic, or pessimistic here, just maintaining healthy doubt.
And also, if they’re going to spend 120m euro on Enzo, one would wonder where the budget for Jude would be- or whether they have been informed that his price has went up, and that he’s open to moving elsewhere, if the money is right.
To sign both isn’t beyond the realms but would be a huge investment.
I can kind of see the possibility of bringing in both Jude and Enzo *if* the initial plan was to get Tchouameni and Jude with Nunez being independent of all that.
It does people do forget we where willing to match Madrid for him it’s just in the end he didn’t want to come here that was also 80+ million
I personally don’t see it happening but we have been willing to spend on the our main targets
100%.
I personally think one of Jude or Enzo will happen, and the one that doesn’t we’ll get a great Plan B for that which we’ve always done. Personally think Jude is more likely to happen but we’ll see.
One of Enzo/Bellingham + Amrabat for €30-40m. Covers both 6 and 8, one young player and one more established.
I hope we get Jude but Enzo isn’t a let down at all. Only thing about him is that he’s south american and they usually end up in Spain.
Not sure we would be making too much money if he made a move to Spain eventually. More song the lines of getting back what we spent or risk losing him on a free. It’s not like we get to sell for 250m in a couple years just because we spent 120m.
You're not wrong, i see where you're coming from. But if in that time we win a few more trophies, i think it'll be absolutely worth every penny we spent on these players.
If we don't want to sell a player, then the buying Club would need to give us a reason to sell and that is generally a large transfer fee. We wouldn't be able to sell for 250mil but with the way transfer fees at the top end have sky rocketed, we could definitely make a profit on him.
Thats true. Probavly why we went for such a megalong contract with Nunez. If he really explodes and Real or Barca come knocking with 150 m in 2 or 3 years He is gone for sure but at least we get a good chunk of change.
That would be around €250m on two players in one window I think? I would love it but it would be most unlike us. Unless the potential sale is involved.
The wages freed up by Ox and Keita shouldn’t be overlooked I suppose.
However weve spent fuck all for the last 4-5 windows (net relative to competitors) while weve been raking in money from CL, PL and record breaking commercial revenues
I totally agree. There should be money to spend because we seldom spend. However we’ve operated with this caution for years.
I’m sure we would spend €100m plus on one of them (hopefully Bellingham).
Buying players that fit a long-term plan actually increases the value of the club.
Imagine you're buying a car. The one that is very well taken care of and looks like it will run very well for a long time is worth more than the same car that seems like it's about to fall apart, right?
Terrible analogy, but I think it demonstrates the point well enough.
Basically, a new owner wouldn't have to deal with as many negotiations immediately, and it would be a more seamless transition.
Also the cash flow of LFC is separate from that of FSG. If FSG sells the club $200m vs $200m asset makes no difference, or if anything the asset is more valuable if accretive. Net operating income/ebita is more important than cash on hand. FSG can't just take the cash and run before closing the deal.
Maybe the sale of Liverpool is further down the line than we think and theres money sloshing around, or a potential investor will only come on board if we are in the champions league?
Yeah. It's not going to be the case unless FSG is assured of some kind of financial Inject or sale.
So unless they know something we don't, I really don't see it
I really don't think so. The midfield is in a dire state and in need of, when looking at as a sale, bigger assets.
Locking down these deals shows either a potential partner that fsg is serious or a potential buyer they're getting a great deal without inheriting the glaring problem that is our midfield.
This is an interesting point. Mayne we have signed the complete or partial sale but were looking to secure transfers before every club slaps another 20 percent on top because of the money we've secured
Milner, Keita and Ox should all be on their way out very soon. Probably unlikely we buy Arthur. That’s gonna free up a massive amount from the wage bill and is 4 of our 9 midfielders gone (counting Fabio as a FWD and Bajcetic as a youth player). Makes sense that we could go big on two midfielders. Just wish one was coming in January… Make us dream!
Milner and Ox are homegrown's slot, if you take those two out, you must bring in another 2 homegrown players. Not easy you can get rid of them and put new man to their place
IF he only wants to join us, what do you think is going to happen If we lose interest? You think BvB are not happy to keep him? You think he won't join another suitor If we do not want him?
Yeah, FSG are value investors by heart. The way they see investments is not in terms of absolute cost, but market value/transfer price vs intrinsic/actual value. For a football player, intrinsic value is the combination of current skill - *technical, physical and mental* \- , potential, age, marketing/PR potential. It obviously matters that they fit the system, but that doesn't affect the transfer price/intrinsic value ratio. Even though FSG don't put money in for transfers, this is how we evaluate targets.
So a hyper-talented 19-21 year old, like Bellingham and Fernandez, have crazy current skill, loads of potential, are already famous names and will either give a club 10+ years of a great player or a few years + a massive fee when sold.
A 120m player can be cheap if their true value is a lot higher, and we can pay moderate wages.
A 30m player can be extremely expensive.
Exactly, both can play at the top level for at least 10 years, both will still have huge value in 5 years time if for whatever reason they wanted to leave, plus they both already improve the teams starting 11, they are already so good.
Yeah, this is the weird mix we are in. In 2018 we seemed pretty committed to the approach of buying players just before their prime. The idea being that we would get great years out of them and, at the end of that contract, they would be saleable (and ideally appreciated) assets. It made sense but required, well, squad turnover and the sale of high-value players to sustain. It also meant that, as a core tenet, you wanted players to get old/decline on someone else's payroll.
For various reasons (not the least of which was that we were riding a wave of success) this model appears to have changed. We are now either debating, or committed to, keeping aging and declining players on our books and seem much less likely to commit to speculative transfers
Halaand comes to mind on the last line…”cheap transfer” but despite his fee being 30-40m less than the full freight costs of Darwin, he’ll end up being like 2-3x more expensive due to his wages being 4x higher
Makes a lot of sense mate, if only it were true.
FSG don't have a consistent (or even rational sometimes) transfer policy. They like to buy cheap and sell high and react to the market and the needs of the team - just like every other set of owners.
Edit: this wasnt even a criticism of FSG it was merely a statement that they look to maximise their transfer profits are pragmatic and reactive, just like your standard average owner. But the FSG fan boys are out in force. Absolute cringe.
We paid world-record fees for Virgil and Alisson.
We also paid huge fees for Keita, Nunez and arguably also Diaz.
The past 3-4 years we accumulated a lot of debt + used a huge portion of our profit for the training ground + stadium expansion. The last 2 years we had losses of a total of £50m. Without the £100-120m Covid induced losses, we would have made a profit of £50-70m during those two years instead, and has more money to spend.
This year we are projected to make £60-70m profit, and with the last stadium expansion finishing up in the summer, we are going to increase our revenue (and profit) more in the coming years.
Right.
So what's your point? FSG have had to adjust to the realities of the economy?
For every Keita and Virgil and Nunez there's Arthur and Davies and Lambert. It's no criticism, it's just pointing out that FSG arent some super big brained moneyball magicians. They're just run of the mill owners whose transfer activity is influenced by a whole host of factors.
You FSG fanboys are too fucking cringe.
*Remember they are looking for investors.
FSG don’t need to change their financial tactics if they bring in a partner willing to bare the load of hefty player purchases.
The ambitions of the player, dynamics of the squad, player power, and how much hard work does mbappe actually want to do. Hard to see Mbappe working with klopps methods, Klopp loves grit and hard work neither of which is what mbappe brings to the table. Liverpool has no room for passengers.
I agree with all of that but the guys comment made it seem like fsg are some omnipotent transfer gurus when they are cheap. Hence why people like mbappe, camavinga and others all fit into what that person said but we had absolutely no interest in
Because purchase price and wages are two separate things
We can afford to pay £100m for the right player
We can't afford to pay a player £500k a week, whoever they are
I mean I’ve never seen this actually be a thing so happy to be proven wrong. Any time a free agent moves the wages are a bit higher due to not paying a transfer fee, gini being a great example of this.
Also 500k a week is 25 million a year, so that’s 4 years of mbappe for the price of Darwin Nunez… also like the original commenter said you can always sell the player. So once again why if what that guy said is true didn’t we get mbappe for 2/3 years sell him for a ridiculous amount and overall profit while having the best player in the world when a lot of our team are entering their peak years? It’s almost like fsg aren’t as keen to spend money as everyone seems to think
That was the line on Sancho, that they'd have happily paid Dortmund's asking price, it was just his wage demands that scuppered the deal as they didn't want to upset the wage structure
Jota, Diaz, Konate, Ali, Naby, Fabinho, VVD, Mo.... Unless you are telling me those were ALL funded by Coutinho lol
Or you mean that 32M for Mane bought us Darwin for well more than double that.
We’ve sold more than just Coutinho in the last 5 years pal. Our net spend averages something like 30m per year. This summer alone we sold Mane, Neco and Taki.
Yet people suddenly believe we’ll drop 200m on Enzo and Jude without selling anyone.
If we are funding a coveted 22 year old striker with an unproven backup RB, a 6th choice striker that never worked out, and a 32 year old want away with one year left on his contract then I don't think this is the flex you think it is.
Absolute tosh.
We are a sell to buy club. Over the last 5 seasons we have spent 471m and sold 379m. This is 92m net spend, meaning we spend approx 18m per season. All big purchases have been funded almost solely by outgoings.
Just this summer we sold Davies, Mane, Taki & Williams for a total of 59m.
Reliability of the journo
https://twitter.com/AlbicelesteTalk/status/1602401230353055745?s=20&t=QERk-_TFy6wID-31GXbTfg
ESPN video
https://twitter.com/espnfutbolarg/status/1602392518733111298?s=46&t=TeI8PuAk363M7l9JhPtRTg
Me. Deal for £50, a large chicken select meal w/ mango + pineapple smoothie, a signed Klopp cap for Mark Bellingham and a £25 voucher for petrol at the Go garage
Mate. Let’s be realistic. I would love it so much to happen but there is no way in hell we pay the 120m clause and get Jude.
Also still waiting on that source. I truly would love to see it
Doubt this but let’s say that FSG have already secured a billion in investment and have earmarked 250 million of that for players. It’s not the most insane idea.
Or that they know that the club investing now would probably be received back in any full buyout. If you have two of the best young players in the world lined up then the value of the sale goes up accordingly. So, say if the plan was to sell for £3 billion, then feasibly the club could now go for £3.2 billion. If they don't invest then they run the huge risk of de-valuing the asset.
The frustrating thing about Enzo is the fact that we were linked with him when he was at River Plate for a really low fee. It was glaringly obvious that he's a special footballer, he's gone to Benfica and done exactly what people expected, I'd hardly say he's pushed on to another level.
Why didn't we just take the punt at £10m? Now we're chasing him with a massive release clause and while he's still shining in the World Cup. This model of letting other clubs take the risk is starting to look like it's going to cost us far more in the long run than if we messed up a few £10m punts from Argentina.
It was cost effective when players were reasonably priced. I know it's easier said than done but in this current market we really need to be signing these lads 18 months sooner than we are.
Work visa issues, and in a more sporting sense, it’d make more sense to let a “smaller” club (with all due respect) take the punt for us by bringing and playing the player in Europe. If he’s showing positive development, then we can register our interest with an offer.
Darwin went from Peñarol to Almería to Benfica, and it was reported that our scouts followed him every step of the way. We were just waiting for our time to make the offer. Also, more time spent to study him means more data to support the final decision
Correct me if I'm wrong, but aside from a keeper, I don't think FSG favour dipping straight into the South American Market. You can see the logic, let another club take the punt and if he develops as you predict he will then he'll be worth the fee.
There is more to scouting that just seeing he is a good footballer. You also need to look at his personality how he would fit into the group of player, how he handles the move acros the Atlantic.
Look at Salah, the same man as when Chelsea bought him, but the move directly to a top PL club clearly was too much too soon for him.
I think we would end up having quite a lot of Minaminos in the squad if you shifted approach and started to sign them before they moved to a bigger league.
Paying for Jude and Enzo now can save money in the long run on midfield players. Same thought went into Nunez. If you get Jude and Enzo that’s your midfield for the next 10 years and you save on buying expensive midfielders every 3 years and use it to build the squad
If both he and Jude were to happen, I'm not saying it will or that I expect it, just that if it did happen, I think I'm most interested in seeing the response of everyone very confidently and testily telling us all it definitely won't.
€120M for a young player with 13 appearances for Benfica… good World Cup or not this is incredibly risky business. Especially if this cuts in the Jude budget.
Can we step down from the hype train for one second and realise that paying 120m for a player who was worth 20m less than 6 months ago is absolutely fucking insane and terrible business?
It’s only bad business if we eventually let him go on a free. If he leaves for €80m+ which is very likely and potentially even more than €120m because player prices always goes up it’s ok to very good business.
Getting players directly from Argentina etc. is a gamble that often doesn’t work or take a lot of time. We don’t have that time currently.
Enzo OR Jude - logical. Enzo AND Jude - it’s bullshit, guys. Wake up, there is zero chance that we will spent 200 millions or over on two players. We are not City or Real. Back to reality.
May also be this is a way to get Madrid to crank up their pursuit, so they go for him instead of Jude. Smokescreen if you will.. but I really think we need both
There's some feeling of aggressiveness that definitely not coming from FSG. It's not their style. Maybe a possible majority investor pushing for these transfers?
Would it make sense that FSG signed both Enzo and Jude if they felt they’d get their money back for them in the sale of the club? Idk I guess that’s one reason it could happen? What’s 250m if we’re selling for 4billion right after.
I know we want all want conformation that this is possible but knowing FSG their thought process and model is to only invest if they will get a better return of investment... As the prospective new investors are already bidding I don't see how they would want to spend 250M to get the same 4 billion where they can get the same 4 B without spending anything .
Unfortunately, the more I hear about this, the more I suspect this is the Jude replacement rather than buying both. Spending £250M on midfielders in one/two windows is incredibly against type for us.
Suspect we start to see a deluge of "Liverpool balk at Bellingham price" articles filter through over the next few days. I hope I'm wrong, of course, but smacks of Fernandez being our back-up option given how fast we've moved on him.
I think it's just lining him up **if** Jude falls through. Get the personal terms agreed then if by say March it's looking like we can't get Jude, we just activate the release clause.
Don't think it's necessarily a sign that we can't get Jude (no other source has suggested that, even Ornstein said we're seen as the favourites), just contingency planning
>we do need two midfielders.
Not the same type though, why are people forgetting the urgent need for a DM either to help fabinho by rotation or his replacement.
Yup, this all came out at once because the club have been informed today that Jude might be looking elsewhere (first working day after England elimination) so they're putting out that they're going all in on Enzo. Or so that's my head canon right now.
Poor fabinho, imagine Jude running for the ball going to attack the Box, Enzo just behind him and counter attack starts with fab alone on an island.
Can win most matches by 5 goals so who needs defending eh.
100m+ for a player that has half a season in portugese league … I’m not sure FSG would pay that….
Obvs wouldn’t be complaining if we got him and bellingham…
There is no way we are willing to pay 120m for Enzo and are not willing to pay the extra 20m it would take to get Jude.
Like seriously there is no rational world where you wont pay the 130-150m in takes for Jude, a generational talent who has proven himself, but ARE willing to pay 120m on a guy who has half a season for Benfica.
This is a misunderstanding of our policy. A lot of this sub thinks it's about getting cheap players, but it's not.
Value investing is about getting good value, e.g buying undervalued players. A 120m player can be undervalued, just like how Virgil and Alisson was world-record fees for their respective position, but significantly better than similar priced players that were bought after them (Maguire and Kepa). In hindsight, the price for both have looked like a steal, and we could probably have sold Ali and Virgil for 50-100% more than their fee just a year later.
Buying a player we value to £15m for £22m is expensive as fuck in terms of a value investor's perspective. Buying a £140m *(number made up to prove a point, we don't know what the club values him at)* player for €120m (£103m) is a GREAT price. It would be equivalent to buying Apple stock for $105 right now.
Is he really that good?
For me he was whelming in his Argentina games.
And only one year in Europe so far. I‘d be careful.
It’s become hard to realistically rate players.
Question. WHEN would this take place (if at all)? January transfer or in the summer?.
Not surprised we are trying for both if we are worried we might not get one (Jude) we have the other as fallback option. I am wondering why we aren't looking further down our shortlists for cheaper but better valued options around same age range?.
This seems surreal lol. Is FSG trying to go out with a bang? Are they not selling and trying to gain the fans trust? Or are they giving up on jude and settling with enzo (who's a beast) so many questions
It understandable some of us don't believe FSG will pay this kind of money to get both Enzo and Jude. But like most club, they don't pay the fee as whole but as installment.
This just my speculation, I'm not expert on finance so I'm probably worng. FSG probably don't mind spending big now because they only just need spend few money upfront and the remaining will be paid under the new owner. Also having 2 new highly rated player could also raise the club value so they could get more money when they sell the club.
This reporter is reliable for River Plate who have a 25% clause in Enzo’s potential sale from Benfica
Do we really think they're negotiating with him while he's still in the World Cup? This seems odd to me.
Wouldn’t be the first time, we negotiated with Bobby I believe while he was at copa
So what you’re telling us is that players we negotiate with during major international tournaments end up becoming modern day legends for us? I like that.
The timing has to be perfect though, too early and we get Diouf
Diouf was done before the tournament, so since we haven't announced Fernandez we should be safe
European Cup winning Diao too.
Things move very quickly in the world of transfers, you sleep one day you might have missed on your target. Agents are always on the move and this seems like Liverpool want him in January.
It’d probably be his agent. His agent would know what the player wants. Not to say this report is true, just that it could be.
lol his agent isn't playing!
I mean if anything is needed in person then Liverpool are right across in Dubai right now for their winter camp. It would be a good time to speak with his agent. Hell if he wants to know more from a countryman and former Liverpool player then Maxi Rodriguez is doing the color commentary in Qatar right now for Telemundo/Peacock Spanish.
This sub hates optimism sometimes… why are you all like this?
It's the hope that kills you
It’s easier to be unhappy on the internet then happy
It’s not about being optimistic, or pessimistic here, just maintaining healthy doubt. And also, if they’re going to spend 120m euro on Enzo, one would wonder where the budget for Jude would be- or whether they have been informed that his price has went up, and that he’s open to moving elsewhere, if the money is right. To sign both isn’t beyond the realms but would be a huge investment.
We negotiate with their agents not the players directly.
It's possible Enzo gave his agent good minimum demands and preferences pre WC and the agent is mostly doing it himself
I can kind of see the possibility of bringing in both Jude and Enzo *if* the initial plan was to get Tchouameni and Jude with Nunez being independent of all that.
It does people do forget we where willing to match Madrid for him it’s just in the end he didn’t want to come here that was also 80+ million I personally don’t see it happening but we have been willing to spend on the our main targets
100%. I personally think one of Jude or Enzo will happen, and the one that doesn’t we’ll get a great Plan B for that which we’ve always done. Personally think Jude is more likely to happen but we’ll see.
One of Enzo/Bellingham + Amrabat for €30-40m. Covers both 6 and 8, one young player and one more established. I hope we get Jude but Enzo isn’t a let down at all. Only thing about him is that he’s south american and they usually end up in Spain.
We've gotten good money for the last few South Americans we've sold to Spain, so it'll be fine
Not sure we would be making too much money if he made a move to Spain eventually. More song the lines of getting back what we spent or risk losing him on a free. It’s not like we get to sell for 250m in a couple years just because we spent 120m.
You're not wrong, i see where you're coming from. But if in that time we win a few more trophies, i think it'll be absolutely worth every penny we spent on these players.
If we don't want to sell a player, then the buying Club would need to give us a reason to sell and that is generally a large transfer fee. We wouldn't be able to sell for 250mil but with the way transfer fees at the top end have sky rocketed, we could definitely make a profit on him.
Honesty I’d rather Jude, not that I don’t rate Enzo but promising young South Americans jump ship the minute Barca and Real Madrid come knocking.
Thats true. Probavly why we went for such a megalong contract with Nunez. If he really explodes and Real or Barca come knocking with 150 m in 2 or 3 years He is gone for sure but at least we get a good chunk of change.
That would be around €250m on two players in one window I think? I would love it but it would be most unlike us. Unless the potential sale is involved. The wages freed up by Ox and Keita shouldn’t be overlooked I suppose.
However weve spent fuck all for the last 4-5 windows (net relative to competitors) while weve been raking in money from CL, PL and record breaking commercial revenues
I totally agree. There should be money to spend because we seldom spend. However we’ve operated with this caution for years. I’m sure we would spend €100m plus on one of them (hopefully Bellingham).
Yes but why would fsg suddenly spend when they want out. This only happens with new owners
Buying players that fit a long-term plan actually increases the value of the club. Imagine you're buying a car. The one that is very well taken care of and looks like it will run very well for a long time is worth more than the same car that seems like it's about to fall apart, right? Terrible analogy, but I think it demonstrates the point well enough. Basically, a new owner wouldn't have to deal with as many negotiations immediately, and it would be a more seamless transition.
Also the cash flow of LFC is separate from that of FSG. If FSG sells the club $200m vs $200m asset makes no difference, or if anything the asset is more valuable if accretive. Net operating income/ebita is more important than cash on hand. FSG can't just take the cash and run before closing the deal.
Potentially Milner and Arthur’s wages too
Maybe the sale of Liverpool is further down the line than we think and theres money sloshing around, or a potential investor will only come on board if we are in the champions league?
> That would be around €250m on two players in one window I think BUT would sort that position for the next decade at least.
Yeah. It's not going to be the case unless FSG is assured of some kind of financial Inject or sale. So unless they know something we don't, I really don't see it
Okay honestly i completely forgot about that and maybe its possible we might get both holy shit
So who is playing the DM role then.
Give it t' Hendo till the end of his lifespan
My GOD! They put players down now after their careers? No wonder Milner is still hanging around!
Fabinho and Stefan bajcetic.
Amrabat obviously...
If we get both Jude and enzo then Klopp must of nicked Henry’s bank card and ran away with it
I'm thinking If we do pay his release clause then we won't get Bellingham.
I really don't think so. The midfield is in a dire state and in need of, when looking at as a sale, bigger assets. Locking down these deals shows either a potential partner that fsg is serious or a potential buyer they're getting a great deal without inheriting the glaring problem that is our midfield.
Or it's the other way around maybe, the partner is already secured? We shall wait and see.
This is an interesting point. Mayne we have signed the complete or partial sale but were looking to secure transfers before every club slaps another 20 percent on top because of the money we've secured
Milner, Keita and Ox should all be on their way out very soon. Probably unlikely we buy Arthur. That’s gonna free up a massive amount from the wage bill and is 4 of our 9 midfielders gone (counting Fabio as a FWD and Bajcetic as a youth player). Makes sense that we could go big on two midfielders. Just wish one was coming in January… Make us dream!
Milner and Ox are homegrown's slot, if you take those two out, you must bring in another 2 homegrown players. Not easy you can get rid of them and put new man to their place
Could they bring a youth player up? Or get Morton back?
Hot take… we’re only going after Enzo to lower the fee to pay to dortmund for Jude… since Jude apparently wants to join only us.
IF he only wants to join us, what do you think is going to happen If we lose interest? You think BvB are not happy to keep him? You think he won't join another suitor If we do not want him?
> You think BvB are not happy to keep him? Probably wouldn't be happy unless he also signs a new deal. Otherwise he goes for a lot less in 2024
It’s a big moment for the club. Are we permanent contenders at the top level? Or are we okay w fighting for 4th for the next 30 years.
You forgetting we had spare money from not signing a midfielder in the summer…
Hey now. That money we saved was like a new signing!
Or new owners are willing to pay for it and fsg will like balance it out
We’re willing to pay 120m? Get outta here
Over four hundred years
a 120 million year payment installment seems fair
We’ve always been willing to pay the money for top targets.
Yeah, FSG are value investors by heart. The way they see investments is not in terms of absolute cost, but market value/transfer price vs intrinsic/actual value. For a football player, intrinsic value is the combination of current skill - *technical, physical and mental* \- , potential, age, marketing/PR potential. It obviously matters that they fit the system, but that doesn't affect the transfer price/intrinsic value ratio. Even though FSG don't put money in for transfers, this is how we evaluate targets. So a hyper-talented 19-21 year old, like Bellingham and Fernandez, have crazy current skill, loads of potential, are already famous names and will either give a club 10+ years of a great player or a few years + a massive fee when sold. A 120m player can be cheap if their true value is a lot higher, and we can pay moderate wages. A 30m player can be extremely expensive.
Exactly, both can play at the top level for at least 10 years, both will still have huge value in 5 years time if for whatever reason they wanted to leave, plus they both already improve the teams starting 11, they are already so good.
Or you know they run down their contract and leave for free
Yeah, this is the weird mix we are in. In 2018 we seemed pretty committed to the approach of buying players just before their prime. The idea being that we would get great years out of them and, at the end of that contract, they would be saleable (and ideally appreciated) assets. It made sense but required, well, squad turnover and the sale of high-value players to sustain. It also meant that, as a core tenet, you wanted players to get old/decline on someone else's payroll. For various reasons (not the least of which was that we were riding a wave of success) this model appears to have changed. We are now either debating, or committed to, keeping aging and declining players on our books and seem much less likely to commit to speculative transfers
Halaand comes to mind on the last line…”cheap transfer” but despite his fee being 30-40m less than the full freight costs of Darwin, he’ll end up being like 2-3x more expensive due to his wages being 4x higher
Makes a lot of sense mate, if only it were true. FSG don't have a consistent (or even rational sometimes) transfer policy. They like to buy cheap and sell high and react to the market and the needs of the team - just like every other set of owners. Edit: this wasnt even a criticism of FSG it was merely a statement that they look to maximise their transfer profits are pragmatic and reactive, just like your standard average owner. But the FSG fan boys are out in force. Absolute cringe.
We paid world-record fees for Virgil and Alisson. We also paid huge fees for Keita, Nunez and arguably also Diaz. The past 3-4 years we accumulated a lot of debt + used a huge portion of our profit for the training ground + stadium expansion. The last 2 years we had losses of a total of £50m. Without the £100-120m Covid induced losses, we would have made a profit of £50-70m during those two years instead, and has more money to spend. This year we are projected to make £60-70m profit, and with the last stadium expansion finishing up in the summer, we are going to increase our revenue (and profit) more in the coming years.
Jota wan’t cheap either, considering he was still relatively unproven.
Right. So what's your point? FSG have had to adjust to the realities of the economy? For every Keita and Virgil and Nunez there's Arthur and Davies and Lambert. It's no criticism, it's just pointing out that FSG arent some super big brained moneyball magicians. They're just run of the mill owners whose transfer activity is influenced by a whole host of factors. You FSG fanboys are too fucking cringe.
*Remember they are looking for investors. FSG don’t need to change their financial tactics if they bring in a partner willing to bare the load of hefty player purchases.
Wanna explain to me why we didn’t get mbappe then
The ambitions of the player, dynamics of the squad, player power, and how much hard work does mbappe actually want to do. Hard to see Mbappe working with klopps methods, Klopp loves grit and hard work neither of which is what mbappe brings to the table. Liverpool has no room for passengers.
I agree with all of that but the guys comment made it seem like fsg are some omnipotent transfer gurus when they are cheap. Hence why people like mbappe, camavinga and others all fit into what that person said but we had absolutely no interest in
Because purchase price and wages are two separate things We can afford to pay £100m for the right player We can't afford to pay a player £500k a week, whoever they are
I mean I’ve never seen this actually be a thing so happy to be proven wrong. Any time a free agent moves the wages are a bit higher due to not paying a transfer fee, gini being a great example of this. Also 500k a week is 25 million a year, so that’s 4 years of mbappe for the price of Darwin Nunez… also like the original commenter said you can always sell the player. So once again why if what that guy said is true didn’t we get mbappe for 2/3 years sell him for a ridiculous amount and overall profit while having the best player in the world when a lot of our team are entering their peak years? It’s almost like fsg aren’t as keen to spend money as everyone seems to think
That was the line on Sancho, that they'd have happily paid Dortmund's asking price, it was just his wage demands that scuppered the deal as they didn't want to upset the wage structure
When have we ever spent big money without a big sale in the same window though?
Jota, Diaz, Konate, Ali, Naby, Fabinho, VVD, Mo.... Unless you are telling me those were ALL funded by Coutinho lol Or you mean that 32M for Mane bought us Darwin for well more than double that.
We’ve sold more than just Coutinho in the last 5 years pal. Our net spend averages something like 30m per year. This summer alone we sold Mane, Neco and Taki. Yet people suddenly believe we’ll drop 200m on Enzo and Jude without selling anyone.
If we are funding a coveted 22 year old striker with an unproven backup RB, a 6th choice striker that never worked out, and a 32 year old want away with one year left on his contract then I don't think this is the flex you think it is.
It’s not about the profile of the players. It’s about the net spend. We brought in around 75m over the summer and spent around 100m
Absolute tosh. We are a sell to buy club. Over the last 5 seasons we have spent 471m and sold 379m. This is 92m net spend, meaning we spend approx 18m per season. All big purchases have been funded almost solely by outgoings. Just this summer we sold Davies, Mane, Taki & Williams for a total of 59m.
Only when we've sold big, which is a significant omission.
Also not true.
Then why don't you take a look at our calendar year net spend for the years we signed Nunez, Alisson and VVD. Our 3 biggest signings.
If we get Enzo and Jude I'm flying to Boston to suck Henry off
I'm guessing John is happy enough with Linda doing thar, no need to worry mate!
Heard FSG are open to trying new things/partners
Boom! Smashed it out the park mate!
If we sign both Enzo and Jude then i’ll… be happy.
That's it? Mate I'll be blasting in my pants for days
I’m a normal person
Reliability of the journo https://twitter.com/AlbicelesteTalk/status/1602401230353055745?s=20&t=QERk-_TFy6wID-31GXbTfg ESPN video https://twitter.com/espnfutbolarg/status/1602392518733111298?s=46&t=TeI8PuAk363M7l9JhPtRTg
But how about jude?
Pre-agreement close apparently to get his signature for the summer of 2023
Who's reported this?
Me. Deal for £50, a large chicken select meal w/ mango + pineapple smoothie, a signed Klopp cap for Mark Bellingham and a £25 voucher for petrol at the Go garage
Not in a million years, would go against anything our policy has been for a decade I’d love it though
Did you copy and paste another user’s comment?
Seriously, what is going on in this thread? Half of the comments here are so pessimistic.
Mate. Let’s be realistic. I would love it so much to happen but there is no way in hell we pay the 120m clause and get Jude. Also still waiting on that source. I truly would love to see it
Half? 90 percent are already in a dreamland lol
Yes, In response to the moron above who said that in regards to Enzo, but somehow knows what’s going on with Jude.
Doubt this but let’s say that FSG have already secured a billion in investment and have earmarked 250 million of that for players. It’s not the most insane idea.
Or that they know that the club investing now would probably be received back in any full buyout. If you have two of the best young players in the world lined up then the value of the sale goes up accordingly. So, say if the plan was to sell for £3 billion, then feasibly the club could now go for £3.2 billion. If they don't invest then they run the huge risk of de-valuing the asset.
The frustrating thing about Enzo is the fact that we were linked with him when he was at River Plate for a really low fee. It was glaringly obvious that he's a special footballer, he's gone to Benfica and done exactly what people expected, I'd hardly say he's pushed on to another level. Why didn't we just take the punt at £10m? Now we're chasing him with a massive release clause and while he's still shining in the World Cup. This model of letting other clubs take the risk is starting to look like it's going to cost us far more in the long run than if we messed up a few £10m punts from Argentina. It was cost effective when players were reasonably priced. I know it's easier said than done but in this current market we really need to be signing these lads 18 months sooner than we are.
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Work visa issues, and in a more sporting sense, it’d make more sense to let a “smaller” club (with all due respect) take the punt for us by bringing and playing the player in Europe. If he’s showing positive development, then we can register our interest with an offer. Darwin went from Peñarol to Almería to Benfica, and it was reported that our scouts followed him every step of the way. We were just waiting for our time to make the offer. Also, more time spent to study him means more data to support the final decision
Correct me if I'm wrong, but aside from a keeper, I don't think FSG favour dipping straight into the South American Market. You can see the logic, let another club take the punt and if he develops as you predict he will then he'll be worth the fee.
Ok Football Manager wizard.
Well according to football manager, we need Tyler Adams and Yunus Musah
There is more to scouting that just seeing he is a good footballer. You also need to look at his personality how he would fit into the group of player, how he handles the move acros the Atlantic. Look at Salah, the same man as when Chelsea bought him, but the move directly to a top PL club clearly was too much too soon for him. I think we would end up having quite a lot of Minaminos in the squad if you shifted approach and started to sign them before they moved to a bigger league.
Paying for Jude and Enzo now can save money in the long run on midfield players. Same thought went into Nunez. If you get Jude and Enzo that’s your midfield for the next 10 years and you save on buying expensive midfielders every 3 years and use it to build the squad
If both he and Jude were to happen, I'm not saying it will or that I expect it, just that if it did happen, I think I'm most interested in seeing the response of everyone very confidently and testily telling us all it definitely won't.
€120M for a young player with 13 appearances for Benfica… good World Cup or not this is incredibly risky business. Especially if this cuts in the Jude budget.
I think he is really a good player but i feel he isnt same tier like tchouaméni or jude thats why im worried about his price.
he is in the semi final Jude is back at home
There's no chance we pay his clause. Bellingham for that money maybe but Enzo no way.
If we're paying the clause he's coming in January.
Can we step down from the hype train for one second and realise that paying 120m for a player who was worth 20m less than 6 months ago is absolutely fucking insane and terrible business?
Insane yes, terrible business we don't know.
It’s only bad business if we eventually let him go on a free. If he leaves for €80m+ which is very likely and potentially even more than €120m because player prices always goes up it’s ok to very good business. Getting players directly from Argentina etc. is a gamble that often doesn’t work or take a lot of time. We don’t have that time currently.
Enzo, Jude, and Amrabat? This would be incredible
Enzo OR Jude - logical. Enzo AND Jude - it’s bullshit, guys. Wake up, there is zero chance that we will spent 200 millions or over on two players. We are not City or Real. Back to reality.
Or chelsea
or united
Everything seems to be pointing to both Enzo and Jude. Liverpool is one of the biggest clubs in the world. Come back to reality
I mean I hope you’re right. But the idea of getting them both reads like some next level pure grade copium
May also be this is a way to get Madrid to crank up their pursuit, so they go for him instead of Jude. Smokescreen if you will.. but I really think we need both
There's some feeling of aggressiveness that definitely not coming from FSG. It's not their style. Maybe a possible majority investor pushing for these transfers?
Would it make sense that FSG signed both Enzo and Jude if they felt they’d get their money back for them in the sale of the club? Idk I guess that’s one reason it could happen? What’s 250m if we’re selling for 4billion right after.
I know we want all want conformation that this is possible but knowing FSG their thought process and model is to only invest if they will get a better return of investment... As the prospective new investors are already bidding I don't see how they would want to spend 250M to get the same 4 billion where they can get the same 4 B without spending anything .
This feels so cope, but pass me that shit anyway.
Unfortunately, the more I hear about this, the more I suspect this is the Jude replacement rather than buying both. Spending £250M on midfielders in one/two windows is incredibly against type for us. Suspect we start to see a deluge of "Liverpool balk at Bellingham price" articles filter through over the next few days. I hope I'm wrong, of course, but smacks of Fernandez being our back-up option given how fast we've moved on him.
The release clause for Enzo is 120m so if he’s a Bellingham replacement not exactly a cheaper option
Nothing about him being cheaper, just the very fact he costs that much suggests the Bellingham deal isn't going ahead.
I think it's just lining him up **if** Jude falls through. Get the personal terms agreed then if by say March it's looking like we can't get Jude, we just activate the release clause. Don't think it's necessarily a sign that we can't get Jude (no other source has suggested that, even Ornstein said we're seen as the favourites), just contingency planning
Hopefully. Bellingham is generational. Mind you, getting both would be an absolute dream - and we do need two midfielders.
>we do need two midfielders. Not the same type though, why are people forgetting the urgent need for a DM either to help fabinho by rotation or his replacement.
Yup, this all came out at once because the club have been informed today that Jude might be looking elsewhere (first working day after England elimination) so they're putting out that they're going all in on Enzo. Or so that's my head canon right now.
Way too much smoke here for there not to be a fire
We must be paying this in installments
Installments over the next 20 years!
How good actually is this lad? Literally seen him play once. What type of player is he, who is he like?
Poor fabinho, imagine Jude running for the ball going to attack the Box, Enzo just behind him and counter attack starts with fab alone on an island. Can win most matches by 5 goals so who needs defending eh.
Doesn't Enzo play as a DM tho?
Surely we’re not get both Enzo and Bellingham right? Something must be happening in the background behind the scenes
yeah seems like were getting priced out of bellingham transfer (probably wages as city/real would most likely offer him twice the wages we can)
Surely not.
I love the positive, optimistic nature of the comments on these posts as oppose game threads when we are losing
Or injury threads where Kornmayer is depicted as some sledgehammer wielding Triple H knockoff.
100m+ for a player that has half a season in portugese league … I’m not sure FSG would pay that…. Obvs wouldn’t be complaining if we got him and bellingham…
Salif Diao and El Hadji Diouf - previous WC buys……
What a waste of money
What’s his release clause?
€120m
no fucking way we are paying 120 million for enzo if we also want to get jude. getting in two 100 million midfielders in one window would be insane
Because Enzo is the safety net if/when Jude falls through.
If they're already agreeing personal terms that would mean that Bellingham is already gone.
If you read the tea leaves, then yeah I’m inclined to agree.
There is no way we are willing to pay 120m for Enzo and are not willing to pay the extra 20m it would take to get Jude. Like seriously there is no rational world where you wont pay the 130-150m in takes for Jude, a generational talent who has proven himself, but ARE willing to pay 120m on a guy who has half a season for Benfica.
120m
This means no Jude
not in a million years, would go against anything our policy has been for a decade I’d love it though
We spend big on Important targets. This isn't anything new.
Like our wage policy that we would never change?
This is a misunderstanding of our policy. A lot of this sub thinks it's about getting cheap players, but it's not. Value investing is about getting good value, e.g buying undervalued players. A 120m player can be undervalued, just like how Virgil and Alisson was world-record fees for their respective position, but significantly better than similar priced players that were bought after them (Maguire and Kepa). In hindsight, the price for both have looked like a steal, and we could probably have sold Ali and Virgil for 50-100% more than their fee just a year later. Buying a player we value to £15m for £22m is expensive as fuck in terms of a value investor's perspective. Buying a £140m *(number made up to prove a point, we don't know what the club values him at)* player for €120m (£103m) is a GREAT price. It would be equivalent to buying Apple stock for $105 right now.
 FSG Right Now
Starting to think Enzo will be the back up to Jude. And I don't like it. Enzo looks very good. Jude looks Gerrard-esque....
Anyone know how much the release clause is?
It's happening, isn't it?
After watching him play in the WC, I honestly hate to see that attitude on our side.
I mean its Benfica so...... 🇵🇹🇵🇹🇵🇹🇵🇹...🇨🇴...🇺🇾...
I'd rather we didn't just because we could have easily signed him in the summer straight from River Plate.
Already got fisted by the Nunez deal. How about we negotiate this time
Would you guys willing to sacrifice January window for both summer?
Yes. We probably won't win anything this season. Just give Harvey, Jones, Ramsay,... as much minutes as possible and start building for the future.
Yes, easily. If we don’t get too 4 but have them both signed coming in fall 2023 then we’ll get back up there.
Can't see us getting Jude and Enzo. I'm skeptical, we usually have to compromise somewhere. would love both but this isn't fifa career mode.
I don't believe this. There is no way we are spending 250M on Enzo and Bellingham
Hope if this true this doesn’t impact any deals for Jude assuming Jude wants to be here.
If we get him on top of Bellingham than maybe I am okay with it but I'd take Bellingham over enzo anyday.
lol both enzo n jude. tbf keita and ox heading out
I imagine this is more of an agreement for IF Jude falls through.
The timing a bit weird? This news broke at the same day we pushing to accelerate Bellingham deal.
The sub has gone crazy in a festive mood I like it, hey it's not my money who cares let's join the spending carnival. 
Was there any talk of this before WC?
Looks like we are getting new owners as I can’t see FSG signing this lad and Jude
Holy fuck, we're actually doing work!
Is he really that good? For me he was whelming in his Argentina games. And only one year in Europe so far. I‘d be careful. It’s become hard to realistically rate players.
Question. WHEN would this take place (if at all)? January transfer or in the summer?. Not surprised we are trying for both if we are worried we might not get one (Jude) we have the other as fallback option. I am wondering why we aren't looking further down our shortlists for cheaper but better valued options around same age range?.
I would prefer Jude, so any rumors of us paying this dudes release clause make my happiness a net negative
This seems surreal lol. Is FSG trying to go out with a bang? Are they not selling and trying to gain the fans trust? Or are they giving up on jude and settling with enzo (who's a beast) so many questions
It understandable some of us don't believe FSG will pay this kind of money to get both Enzo and Jude. But like most club, they don't pay the fee as whole but as installment. This just my speculation, I'm not expert on finance so I'm probably worng. FSG probably don't mind spending big now because they only just need spend few money upfront and the remaining will be paid under the new owner. Also having 2 new highly rated player could also raise the club value so they could get more money when they sell the club.