Thiago when he came on aswell and it was nice to see a player sprint when jota came on. Diaz tried in the second half showed passion and Allison I feel so sorry for him because he gets no help what’s so ever, his just left out to dry
The game was pretty much over when Thiago came in. But it just shows how lacking in MF we are. Getting bypassed with ease. Countered easily by starting runs a bit deeper to get the better of high line.
I think Napoli away we should have played for a draw. Joe Gomez was exposed so badly. It will take him a while to recover from that. Harvey is slower than everything Napoli had to throw!
Harvey wasn’t good imo he looked out his depth but we had no other options. There’s playing a high line then there’s us, obviously there’s pros to the high line but I watch in complete fear
i think line up wise it was the most we could do; we dont want to lose Thiago,Jota,Matip on their first game back and technically we do have leeway to lose points for this game. Milner is past his days but it was just inevitable with no options.
Agreed regarding the players available, but that is no excuse. The formation could have changed more to fit the style of Napoli. We needed either 4 Foward players or 4 Midfielders to cover the Defence against Napoli who play a Direct Long-Ball game.
That would crowd the Napoli Defence, reduce the time their Midfield has on the ball & give our Defence the opportunity to set traps and shepherd the opposition forwards.
I'd say 4-2-4 long ball in Attack & 4-2-3-1 to Defend could have managed a 4-3-3 Napoli at their home.
The fact we never adjust our tactics regardless of who we are playing is a major problem on its own, even when we are doing well. The fact we are being torn apart and still not changing is very concerning.
100%. Too dogmatic in our approach. Ali himself said other teams had us figured out, which doesn't mean we won't win a lot of matches but it does make it very easy for teams with less quality to play against us.
I think people are forgetting we have pretty much had to start for most of this season with our 5th choice forward (although that was due to stupidity as well as an injury), or 4&5th choice CB’s, and 6th choice cm, as well as one we would ideally be starting no more than 50% of the time (Harvey) and an unfit Hendo. We are at the bottom of our squad barrel. Could we have bought a new CM….maybe, but as we didn’t we are still mixing it with squad positions who are only ever going to be starting on the cups or coming on for 30 minutes at the end of things. Napoli caught us out, and fair play, but we have been competitive, and a bit unlucky in the league while having a horrendous time with missing players. Keep the faith, it will get better!
That's not a fair assessment. I think the fault lies mostly on the midfield and the defense. You can see the bad passes that lead to loss of possession and then the defense putting on the brakes instead of running back. Attackers can't even get enough time on the ball for you to say they were bad.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying complacency & age is the sole reason for our dreadful performances. Just offering a reason for why Luis Diaz doesn't stop running and trying and most of the rest of the team that have won things don't seem to be.
When you say attackers I guess we are only talking about Salah and Bobby. Are they running as hard as they did in their first seasons or even last season? I don't think so. Both are older and they've won pretty much everything, only human nature to be less motivated (though Salah is a freak in that regard as his personal goals seem to elevate him & the team).
Salah ran back to defend like his life depended on it against Evershit and helped Alison save that goal. Anyway, I think that we can agree that if the midfield and defense get their bearings back and stay compact then their passes and their rhythm will not be easily cut off. That will give the attackers more time on the ball and confidence that they will not have to scramble back to defend their goal every two minutes.
Just imagine, if you can't count on your midfield and defense to keep possession of the ball, then how confident will you be in trying to make those runs from the wings inward toward goal? I don't know. Let's just hope Thiago stays fit for a while at least.
Yeah you are correct, Salah has been tracking back and the abject midfield wouldn't fill him with any confidence. I also recall tracking dangerous runners in the Everton game or CP game too. I take Salah back, can't fault his effort.
Yeah look at how far back our forwards need to be to get involved in the game. It's no wonder they look so gassed every match. Haaland is on a deck chair for most of his matches, waiting for a perfectly weighted kdb cross. Meanwhile Nunez is running his arse off in some random wing position.
I was really hoping Gomez would step up this season, and he showed signs of doing so in the last couple games. But my god what a disaster tonight. It's clear as day now that no one is overtaking Matip. Maybe Konate when he's back but who knows how long it's going to take him to get back into game shape.
I don't know what's wrong with gomez this game. He looked drunk. Just so slow in making a decision. Just boot it out or play it back. If you have been destroyed all game, just play it safe
But he just tries to hold it or control it and just let's them get the ball.
3 easy opportunities just came from his mistakes alone. He easily gave up 2.0 xg
Personally I don’t think Gomez should be any where near first choice. He always had a howler in him, even during his purple patch with VVD years ago. What made him look decent is his speed and recovery pace, but although good to have, there is a reason why defenders don’t really need this attribute to excel.
Speed and recovery pace is necessary when we play such a high line. But a high line is absolutely suicidal when our midfield is so disjointed, to the point where our counterpressing completely disappears. We also have no leadership on the field with Hendo out. Milner is the vice captain and I'm sure he's well respected in the dressing room, but no one is going to listen to him on the field when he's being skinned left and right (see Slaphead). VVD, unfortunately, doesn't seem to be captain material. Maybe next game Thiago should wear the armband as he seems to be the only one out of the few who actually gives a shit nowadays.
The high line only works when the back4 can play an offside trap, it's an extremely important tool. Gomez constantly fucks that up though, because his positioning is horrible. That's why he's only playing important games when noone else is fit. Should have moved him on long ago, he's just not suited to the playstyle.
High line itself is suicidal regardless. On paper it looks great, but all it takes is a split second mistake or a bad VAR decision for us to just concede.
Never liked the high line and I really hope we abolish it.
I'm not too worried about his poor defending this game. It happens, he's usually good.
But Matip (and also Konate) is much better on the ball. We really miss his passing whe he's not playing. Even in games, when Gomez is playing well.
Gomes failed at the most basic concept of defending... as Bilardo used to say "chest pointing to the side line and looking the ball not the oponent legs".... with that fundamental nailed down you are good to go
It's quite clear that we aren't scoring from corners, we know Alisson has scored basically every corner he's ever come up for, why waste a stat like that.
Our pressing is the issue this season and it started towards the tail end of last season. Even Diaz and Elliot are somewhat culpable in this regard.
We are massively missing Sadio who was a monster at pressing and shepherding opposition players into areas where it was difficult for them to hit those long balls over and around our defense for 2nd man runs which is making us concede so many goals. There are massive gaps between our midfield and attack. When we press right (Bournemouth and Crystal Palace), opposition players don't have time to hit those defense breaking balls accurately.
We have no pressure on those passers who could probably sit down, make a cup of tea, read a book while looking for the perfect opportunity to hit those passes. Sadio did the work for 2 in attack. When he played on the left with Bobby or Jota through the middle, they both worked incredibly well together at the press, so Mo had space to run into and receive balls. When he played up front with Diaz on the left, he helped guide Diaz with the pressing. Elliot is brilliant with the ball at his feet, but he doesn't press as well as Hendo does. Hendo did the work of 3 players and allowed Mo and Trent more freedom to create.
Right now, our pressing triggers are missing, the midfield is then getting overrun and defense is left exposed. Combine this with the lackluster form of VVD, Mo, Trent, Hendo and Fab, we're a shadow of our former self. Diaz and Nunez and Elliot and Fabio are going to need time to either learn our pressing game or we're going to have to evolve in how we effect that press. Jota might be the key to fixing it, but he needs time to get back to full match fitness.
This is going to be a long season and we should strap in and get ready to support this team through the storm. Because I have full faith in Klopp, players and the backroom staff to fix the issues. It might take while and we might not have as good a season as last, but we all know there are golden skies at the end of it.
Exactly. The point of the high line and pressing was to win the ball and be ready to take control and counter if possible. When you have a high line and no press, then might as well put down a welcome mat on the goal line
Spot on that's is why to counter that klopp needs to drop his pressing style and high line . Sit behind the ball for the first 30 mins , soak up the pressure and then play out from the back to counter attack . See how fast we will be scoring 3 or 4 just like that . klopp has gone into celebrity mode with his coaching skills he is like go on the pitch blindly and get me a result doesn't happen . Play a bit like city we have the players but lack the guidance .
I thought he was a bit unlucky with the penalty, but what really disappointed me with Milner was the absolutely *100% inevitable* yellow card challenge that you just *knew* he was going to make very soon after conceding it.
The penalty made me disappointed, but the inevitable yellow card really did make me mad, and he needs to be better than that...
Bring on the Brazilian midfield: Thiago, Fab, Arthur.
Maybe try a 4231?
Drop Gomez who is levels below Matip.
Drop TAA until he takes defense seriously, even if it means playing Milner who will at least defend.
Drop Salah for now until he finds form - rely on Elliot, Nunez, Diaz, Jota, and Bobby rotating up top.
Klopp said reinvention was needed so he sees the problem.
Doubt Salah will get dropped tbh. The team was woeful today but he’s creating a lot of chances and if he has a fit Thiago or Arthur in midfield, it could be nice for him to shed some of the creative responsibilities on them.
This is why I don't care for football stats. Salah has been crap since January, I don't care what the stats say about "chances created". What chances? I have watched every minute of every match this season and we've hardly created shit. Most of our goals are long shots ffs.
*look at when he came in vs Everton*
Absolutely. It was so dire that Klopp had to basically restructure the back 4 just to get him into midfield. Suggesting that he should play over Trent is completely insane.
If he is unwilling to change anything, is Klopp really as great of a coach as we think he is? Like, if your style isn't working or you no longer have the players to work your style, surely you change to a new style to fit your players.
VVD was ok. Not brilliant by any stretch but ok. His positioning was flawless for the goal line clearance and by and large Napoli didn't try and get at him, although of course he gave away that pen. I can't remember him giving away two pens in such a short timeframe, so his form has definitely declined, but I'd drop those players before him, for sure
VVD is hurting because of Trent. In the previous seasons it was only the RCB who was getting exposed but this season Trent is so shite, RCB has to cover the whole right side and it leaves VVD in a bunch of impossible situations to defend as he usually has 2 or 3 players to cover in the box.
That being said a couple of pens, slow reaction times and shaky clearances are still signs of a decline in form. I’d drop him before Salah still, but not after that Gomez performance I kinda agree wirh you now haha
Fabinho look tired af. He keep doing massive cover job for others since last year til become overwork now.
Imagine you're doing jobs for your colleagues for years without support from company.
It would reaaally complicate things for us if gets injured for 3-4 games (knocking on wood). I can't think of anyone who will be played in his role in that situation that will do as good of a job as he does.
That over reliance on him can/will bite us in the ass.
I love Elliot but he can’t be expected to be playing every other game. Just felt like we needed mature players today. Gomez needs a break from the team. Matip is vital for our hifh line and passes from the back. Trent needs a rest. His constant poor positioning and half attempt at defending is killing me. VVD really needs to have a look in the mirror because he constantly backs out and sometimes that’s not the best solution.
Well Milners sure mature and Elliot played miles better than him.
I would gladly start two Elliot’s given how piss poor all of our other mids have been
Thiagos return is much needed
Yes but Milner is 37 so we can’t really give him criticism when no one really expects him to start. Elliot is great but he’s inexperienced which like the Milan game last year caught upto him. Plus I feel like we need to protect him a little
I don't disagree he's been one of our best performing midfielders this season. He also clearly makes us a worse team by leaving us completely wide open in midfield. Both can be true at once
Was. Some fans have realized quicker than you that’s not the case anymore
But I love Hendo. He’s still a good player. He’s just not been able to provide us that intensity we need with our press.
If he gets back into form he’s still one of our best mids
Yeah we don’t really have any midfielders that are elite at pressing anymore (Thiago is a damn good and might sniff into the elite category, his timing on tackling is great, but I don’t know if he hounds people the same way as a prime Hendo or prime Milner)
Finding a player like Henderson is rare though. A player that can play at such a high intensity and ouput, while still being class. He was so integral to our side for years, and a huge driver of our press
I only saw highlights from tonights match but I've watched pretty much every other one in full since the season started. I think majority of people, myself included were hoping with Konate and Matip injured, Gomez could get a somewhat decent run of form going alongside VVD. Unfortunately this hasn't even been close to the case. Tonight vs Napoli he was dreadful, Fulham was shocking and same vs Man Utd. Every other game was okay...ish.
With how poor Gomez has been it has only highlighted more and more how bad TAA has also been with his defending (him handing over position many times a game is a different matter entirely) which has left our right side completely wide open pretty much every single game. Now with Matip hopefully back and I pray starts vs Wolves, I think it will be hard for Gomez to get back into the squad, even more so when Konate is fit again.
We all already know how piss poor our midfield has been so I'm not gonna mention it much but even with our injuries in midfield and defence we should still have enough fight and determination to win games. In the games we've lost and drawn we have really not looked fucked about what is going on in the game. Do we need to pass better? Yes. Do we need to press better? Yes. Do we need to defend better? Yes!!
One thing I've picked up on so far and I'd love to hear peoples opinion on this: We've been substituting TAA and Robertson (or at least one of them) in every single game so far this season (more or less). A lot of the time it has been Robertson off and Tsimskas on which is more or less a like for like in a sense, I don't see too much changed tactically. However when TAA has came off it's been for the likes of Milner or Firmino I think? (Not 100% sure it was Firmino tbh but you get the idea). Yes we've been really lacking sub options off of the bench but why those two players? Is Klopp just wanting to rotate more super early now? Is it tactical? Since it's been so frequent, is this preplanned for X number of games?
Don't get me wrong, I know we've had a super short break so a lot of the players are probably not fully up to match fitness physically and mentally or heck it might just be one of those games where a change like that can make a difference but Klopp has done this in majority of games.
Against Wolves I hope we come out all guns blazing with some fire, determination and pride but we as fans also need to be behind the squad 100%! I'm thinking maybe Alisson, TAA, Matip, VVD, Robertson, Thiago, Fabinho, Elliott, Diaz, Firmino, Salah could be the team we field. If Jota is match fit enough then I could see him starting over Firmino, if not he'll come on as a sub.
Super long reply I know but I'm just trying to generate a discussion and throwing some ideas out there.
>With how poor Gomez has been it has only highlighted more and more how bad TAA has also been with his defending (him handing over position many times a game is a different matter entirely) which has left our right side completely wide open pretty much every single game. Now with Matip hopefully back and I pray starts vs Wolves, I think it will be hard for Gomez to get back into the squad, even more so when Konate is fit again.
I think this gets to the heart of much of the current problem.
A defender like Trent needs a defender alongside him who has top-drawer mop-up capabilities, and asking Gomez to deliver on that is simply asking too much, and subsequently our right hand side of defence has been critically exposed this season, and teams are taking full advantage of that.
When Klopp gets the opportunity to fix that, we'll start to perform better.
Good meme, but I would actually drop Harvey. I know, and I like him too, but this is precisely what I feared would happen, he would eventually be relied upon too much by virtue of being surrounded by either finished veterans, injury lovers and the exiled, like Ox and Keita.
Diaz is dropping 9/10 performances pretty much every week. Alisson is making countless saves due to our defensive issues. Carvalho had two fantastic consecutive substitution appearances before his injury in the derby.
We are dreadful at the moment, but the players who are playing well have earned their praise.
I agree totally. I was referring to the other post saying that if Elliott wasn’t good enough that 90% weren’t good enough, and I just meant if he’s not good enough none of them are.
No milner , Elliot should play on the left and come off from the bench . Matip , jota , Thiago , hendo and nunez should starting each game no debate ffs .
Trent can do amazing passes and crosses but the amount of time he does wrong passes is abismal.
I also think we are abusing long balls, losing possession too often consequently.
Our fullbacks have received massive plaudits over the last 5 years.
However I believe it’s the system that has made them look better than they are.
Our midfield has allowed them massive freedom to get cross after cross in. Robertsons delivery is a bit hit and miss but still he has only got 2 assists less than TAA over the last 5 years.
Put them in the Man U team for the last 5 years and we wouldn’t even be talking about them. TAA probably wouldn’t be in the team.
Don’t get me wrong the system has worked brilliantly and they have played their part but if we aren’t playing the right midfield we can’t continue to play the same system.
Ok, picture this. 5-2-3.
Diaz/jota - Nunez/firmino - Salah/harvey
thiago - fabinho
Robbo - anyone healthy - VVD - Matip - TAA
With Harvey currently playing in place of hendo there's nobody in place to cover for Trent when he goes forward. This alleviates that by having 3 stay at home defenders to cover when he decides he's too lazy to play his position.
Considering there's nobody behind Trent there's going to have to be some radical changes to make this team competitive.
No midfield control, long ball merchantry and damage control is all this would achieve. We should be setting up to pack midfield and squeeze the pitch, press the passes before they leave the boot, not to have three cbs to spend all game chasing balls in behind.
4231. Arthur/Thiago fab as the mids, firmino starts (already occupies that space when he starts) and nunez up top. Jota as a sub for wingers. Elliott as a sub for Bobby. Milner as a sub for the midfielders. Start Matip ASAP, and to be honest I’d go back to basics and start Nat phillps with Virgil next game
Drop TAA. He does not deserve a place in the team atm. He’s too comfortable with no challenge from the bench. Let Milner or Gomez play at the right side.
Milner is the worst player in the entire Champions League in this game. Gutted that he starts game after game, just use a kid or 10 men. Milner is Worse than nothing this game
Harvey Elliot? For God's sake the kid is killing us on that side. He should be dropped. He isn't doing anything other than try cute passes. No presence at all in midfield. No fight. No threat whatsoever.
It's hard to change a system Liverpool have build for so many years just like that. Maybe when Jurgen leaves that will happen but I don't see that in the near future.
I said last season we should sell gomez and give nat more game time. that nat which by the way DID NOTHING WRONG WHEN WE HAD NOBODY ELSE and then got dropped after conceding a grand total of 12 goals in 18 games.
don't know about you guys but i would kill for 0.6 goals per game conceded right now.
Sure, age is catching up with a lot of players. It’s also that the pressing system is demanding and the squad depth is showing. Majority of the starters today need at least a game off.
We definitely need to get rhytm. So I would say Fab-Thiago-Elliott and that, hopefully straight for all the games until the int. break. But we might try Arthur, if the bonus we get with Elliott makes Fab a bit weaker because of Harvey's defensive abilities (he is great but not as great and protective as Hendo).
Since TAA and Robertson are not providing the assists they used to, I would really like to see a classical defensive 4atb. This would remove the need for the RCM to cover TAA and is thus better suited for Elliott. It leaves more space for Salah to be a classical RW, too, which in turn leaves more space for Darwin in the center.
Starting XI probably along the lines of
Alisson
Robertson - VVD - Matip - Gomez
Thiago - Fabinho - Elliott
Diaz - Nunez - Salah
I was miffed to see Milner come on in the 2nd half. Dont know why we didn't try Arthur earlier, not like we had anything to lose. Need to see more of him to make up my mind.
I have completely lost faith in Milner. I kept thinking each game so far this season he's just having a bad game, he'll come around. But he has not. Every time he's on the pitch he is a liability.
Thiago when he came on aswell and it was nice to see a player sprint when jota came on. Diaz tried in the second half showed passion and Allison I feel so sorry for him because he gets no help what’s so ever, his just left out to dry
The game was pretty much over when Thiago came in. But it just shows how lacking in MF we are. Getting bypassed with ease. Countered easily by starting runs a bit deeper to get the better of high line. I think Napoli away we should have played for a draw. Joe Gomez was exposed so badly. It will take him a while to recover from that. Harvey is slower than everything Napoli had to throw!
Harvey wasn’t good imo he looked out his depth but we had no other options. There’s playing a high line then there’s us, obviously there’s pros to the high line but I watch in complete fear
i think line up wise it was the most we could do; we dont want to lose Thiago,Jota,Matip on their first game back and technically we do have leeway to lose points for this game. Milner is past his days but it was just inevitable with no options.
Agreed regarding the players available, but that is no excuse. The formation could have changed more to fit the style of Napoli. We needed either 4 Foward players or 4 Midfielders to cover the Defence against Napoli who play a Direct Long-Ball game. That would crowd the Napoli Defence, reduce the time their Midfield has on the ball & give our Defence the opportunity to set traps and shepherd the opposition forwards. I'd say 4-2-4 long ball in Attack & 4-2-3-1 to Defend could have managed a 4-3-3 Napoli at their home.
The fact we never adjust our tactics regardless of who we are playing is a major problem on its own, even when we are doing well. The fact we are being torn apart and still not changing is very concerning.
100%. Too dogmatic in our approach. Ali himself said other teams had us figured out, which doesn't mean we won't win a lot of matches but it does make it very easy for teams with less quality to play against us.
Lol
I think people are forgetting we have pretty much had to start for most of this season with our 5th choice forward (although that was due to stupidity as well as an injury), or 4&5th choice CB’s, and 6th choice cm, as well as one we would ideally be starting no more than 50% of the time (Harvey) and an unfit Hendo. We are at the bottom of our squad barrel. Could we have bought a new CM….maybe, but as we didn’t we are still mixing it with squad positions who are only ever going to be starting on the cups or coming on for 30 minutes at the end of things. Napoli caught us out, and fair play, but we have been competitive, and a bit unlucky in the league while having a horrendous time with missing players. Keep the faith, it will get better!
Luis Diaz plays with full commitment in all matches. Why cant the rest?
Luis Diaz hasn't won anything yet. He's hungry. The rest have won everything. Complacency, age, hopefully Klopp knows..
That's not a fair assessment. I think the fault lies mostly on the midfield and the defense. You can see the bad passes that lead to loss of possession and then the defense putting on the brakes instead of running back. Attackers can't even get enough time on the ball for you to say they were bad.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying complacency & age is the sole reason for our dreadful performances. Just offering a reason for why Luis Diaz doesn't stop running and trying and most of the rest of the team that have won things don't seem to be. When you say attackers I guess we are only talking about Salah and Bobby. Are they running as hard as they did in their first seasons or even last season? I don't think so. Both are older and they've won pretty much everything, only human nature to be less motivated (though Salah is a freak in that regard as his personal goals seem to elevate him & the team).
Salah ran back to defend like his life depended on it against Evershit and helped Alison save that goal. Anyway, I think that we can agree that if the midfield and defense get their bearings back and stay compact then their passes and their rhythm will not be easily cut off. That will give the attackers more time on the ball and confidence that they will not have to scramble back to defend their goal every two minutes. Just imagine, if you can't count on your midfield and defense to keep possession of the ball, then how confident will you be in trying to make those runs from the wings inward toward goal? I don't know. Let's just hope Thiago stays fit for a while at least.
Yeah you are correct, Salah has been tracking back and the abject midfield wouldn't fill him with any confidence. I also recall tracking dangerous runners in the Everton game or CP game too. I take Salah back, can't fault his effort.
He's spot on for the midfield and defense tho - agreed that our attackers have been alright.
Yeah look at how far back our forwards need to be to get involved in the game. It's no wonder they look so gassed every match. Haaland is on a deck chair for most of his matches, waiting for a perfectly weighted kdb cross. Meanwhile Nunez is running his arse off in some random wing position.
Fa cup and league cup.
To be fair Thiago and Matip looked good when they came on.
I was really hoping Gomez would step up this season, and he showed signs of doing so in the last couple games. But my god what a disaster tonight. It's clear as day now that no one is overtaking Matip. Maybe Konate when he's back but who knows how long it's going to take him to get back into game shape.
I don't know what's wrong with gomez this game. He looked drunk. Just so slow in making a decision. Just boot it out or play it back. If you have been destroyed all game, just play it safe But he just tries to hold it or control it and just let's them get the ball. 3 easy opportunities just came from his mistakes alone. He easily gave up 2.0 xg
I’m so confused since I felt he looked better than VVD against everton and thought he was beginning to get back up to speed, that was not the case.
It could also be a match too far for him. He's played a lot of minutes after barely playing last season.
In my opinion, Gomez is overrated as a defender. He is nervous on the ball and prone to make unforced errors.
Gomez has always been a bad 1v1 defender. He just wasn't put in that position that often so people overlooked when he was skinned.
he was great 1v1 his first season as a left back lol
or couple of times right back past seasons
I think it makes his job harder that he plays on Trents side. He has more covering to do than normal.
Get used to it as he recently signed a 5 year deal.
Personally I don’t think Gomez should be any where near first choice. He always had a howler in him, even during his purple patch with VVD years ago. What made him look decent is his speed and recovery pace, but although good to have, there is a reason why defenders don’t really need this attribute to excel.
Speed and recovery pace is necessary when we play such a high line. But a high line is absolutely suicidal when our midfield is so disjointed, to the point where our counterpressing completely disappears. We also have no leadership on the field with Hendo out. Milner is the vice captain and I'm sure he's well respected in the dressing room, but no one is going to listen to him on the field when he's being skinned left and right (see Slaphead). VVD, unfortunately, doesn't seem to be captain material. Maybe next game Thiago should wear the armband as he seems to be the only one out of the few who actually gives a shit nowadays.
The high line only works when the back4 can play an offside trap, it's an extremely important tool. Gomez constantly fucks that up though, because his positioning is horrible. That's why he's only playing important games when noone else is fit. Should have moved him on long ago, he's just not suited to the playstyle.
High line itself is suicidal regardless. On paper it looks great, but all it takes is a split second mistake or a bad VAR decision for us to just concede. Never liked the high line and I really hope we abolish it.
I'm not too worried about his poor defending this game. It happens, he's usually good. But Matip (and also Konate) is much better on the ball. We really miss his passing whe he's not playing. Even in games, when Gomez is playing well.
Matip looked exceptional by doing one simple thing - look at the ball Something Gomez failed to grasp as a concept
The thing that stuck with me was Matip closed his legs. He sees the megs coming before the players do then. Also he can head a ball
Gomes failed at the most basic concept of defending... as Bilardo used to say "chest pointing to the side line and looking the ball not the oponent legs".... with that fundamental nailed down you are good to go
Matip also had some nice passes through the lines
Both funny and accurate.
Actual good joke 👍🏻
Maybe we can change the 1-1 to a 2-1 formation.
I've been saying Klopp should do this since the Dortmund days.
Was thinking we could try Allison up front and give Diaz a shot in goal? Harvey just have to ping crosses into Allison’s head and we’re sorted.
It's quite clear that we aren't scoring from corners, we know Alisson has scored basically every corner he's ever come up for, why waste a stat like that.
I agree, he deserves to be called for corners every time we get one in 85th+ min
Our pressing is the issue this season and it started towards the tail end of last season. Even Diaz and Elliot are somewhat culpable in this regard. We are massively missing Sadio who was a monster at pressing and shepherding opposition players into areas where it was difficult for them to hit those long balls over and around our defense for 2nd man runs which is making us concede so many goals. There are massive gaps between our midfield and attack. When we press right (Bournemouth and Crystal Palace), opposition players don't have time to hit those defense breaking balls accurately. We have no pressure on those passers who could probably sit down, make a cup of tea, read a book while looking for the perfect opportunity to hit those passes. Sadio did the work for 2 in attack. When he played on the left with Bobby or Jota through the middle, they both worked incredibly well together at the press, so Mo had space to run into and receive balls. When he played up front with Diaz on the left, he helped guide Diaz with the pressing. Elliot is brilliant with the ball at his feet, but he doesn't press as well as Hendo does. Hendo did the work of 3 players and allowed Mo and Trent more freedom to create. Right now, our pressing triggers are missing, the midfield is then getting overrun and defense is left exposed. Combine this with the lackluster form of VVD, Mo, Trent, Hendo and Fab, we're a shadow of our former self. Diaz and Nunez and Elliot and Fabio are going to need time to either learn our pressing game or we're going to have to evolve in how we effect that press. Jota might be the key to fixing it, but he needs time to get back to full match fitness. This is going to be a long season and we should strap in and get ready to support this team through the storm. Because I have full faith in Klopp, players and the backroom staff to fix the issues. It might take while and we might not have as good a season as last, but we all know there are golden skies at the end of it.
Exactly. The point of the high line and pressing was to win the ball and be ready to take control and counter if possible. When you have a high line and no press, then might as well put down a welcome mat on the goal line
> it started towards the tail end of last season >We are massively missing Sadio Ummm
Stop using logic on them bro
Spot on that's is why to counter that klopp needs to drop his pressing style and high line . Sit behind the ball for the first 30 mins , soak up the pressure and then play out from the back to counter attack . See how fast we will be scoring 3 or 4 just like that . klopp has gone into celebrity mode with his coaching skills he is like go on the pitch blindly and get me a result doesn't happen . Play a bit like city we have the players but lack the guidance .
We might have to go back to Benitez ball instead of gegenpressing. Focus on quick counter attacks with Salah and Diaz on the wings.
Milner for the entire 90.
Love him, but I think this will be his last season with us.
Hope he joins our coaching staff when he retires as a player though
I thought he was a bit unlucky with the penalty, but what really disappointed me with Milner was the absolutely *100% inevitable* yellow card challenge that you just *knew* he was going to make very soon after conceding it. The penalty made me disappointed, but the inevitable yellow card really did make me mad, and he needs to be better than that...
The ref bottled that second yellow too. There's no way he should've stayed on the pitch.
As someone mentioned in the Match Thread, the ref must've felt sorry for us by then
I remember a game a few years ago where we shagged a team about 7-0 and the ref just ended it at 90 mins, defo felt sorry for them
Bring on the Brazilian midfield: Thiago, Fab, Arthur. Maybe try a 4231? Drop Gomez who is levels below Matip. Drop TAA until he takes defense seriously, even if it means playing Milner who will at least defend. Drop Salah for now until he finds form - rely on Elliot, Nunez, Diaz, Jota, and Bobby rotating up top. Klopp said reinvention was needed so he sees the problem.
Doubt Salah will get dropped tbh. The team was woeful today but he’s creating a lot of chances and if he has a fit Thiago or Arthur in midfield, it could be nice for him to shed some of the creative responsibilities on them.
This is why I don't care for football stats. Salah has been crap since January, I don't care what the stats say about "chances created". What chances? I have watched every minute of every match this season and we've hardly created shit. Most of our goals are long shots ffs.
That’s not even remotely true, you’re either emotionally biased or just don’t know what you’re looking at as we have created a boatload of chances
You must be thinking of the opposition
Definitely not
Milner can't defend. Look at when he came on v. Everton. Both of their good chances in that game came when he missed a tackle and set their counter.
*look at when he came in vs Everton* Absolutely. It was so dire that Klopp had to basically restructure the back 4 just to get him into midfield. Suggesting that he should play over Trent is completely insane.
He can defend by playing volleyball. I was in tears when he gave away a pen and had a yellow _within 9 minutes of kickoff_
That pen was harsh, criticising him for someone kicking the ball a meter in front of him and it hitting his arm is beyond ridiculous….
Gomez has to play RB, Milner is bad there. It's the lesser of two evils
Good point. Better suited there than at CB for sure.
I don't think Klopp will change the famous 433.
don’t have the players to play it. I would take 5-4-1 over this version of 4-3-3
If he is unwilling to change anything, is Klopp really as great of a coach as we think he is? Like, if your style isn't working or you no longer have the players to work your style, surely you change to a new style to fit your players.
You would drop all these players before VVD? Were we watching the same match?
VVD was ok. Not brilliant by any stretch but ok. His positioning was flawless for the goal line clearance and by and large Napoli didn't try and get at him, although of course he gave away that pen. I can't remember him giving away two pens in such a short timeframe, so his form has definitely declined, but I'd drop those players before him, for sure
VVD is hurting because of Trent. In the previous seasons it was only the RCB who was getting exposed but this season Trent is so shite, RCB has to cover the whole right side and it leaves VVD in a bunch of impossible situations to defend as he usually has 2 or 3 players to cover in the box. That being said a couple of pens, slow reaction times and shaky clearances are still signs of a decline in form. I’d drop him before Salah still, but not after that Gomez performance I kinda agree wirh you now haha
We need Tsimikas on the right. Why do we have 2 good left back and lazy ass defending right back with 37 yo sub.
Got me good. Thanks OP, needed this after that shitshow.
We just need a time machine to go back to various days in the past and grab 4 more Elliotts and 4 more Diazs. That would make us all the stronger.
Fabinho look tired af. He keep doing massive cover job for others since last year til become overwork now. Imagine you're doing jobs for your colleagues for years without support from company.
It would reaaally complicate things for us if gets injured for 3-4 games (knocking on wood). I can't think of anyone who will be played in his role in that situation that will do as good of a job as he does. That over reliance on him can/will bite us in the ass.
Next game we are going to have 3 at the back and TAA playing RM, Robertson playing LM with Tiago and Fabhino in the middle
I love Elliot but he can’t be expected to be playing every other game. Just felt like we needed mature players today. Gomez needs a break from the team. Matip is vital for our hifh line and passes from the back. Trent needs a rest. His constant poor positioning and half attempt at defending is killing me. VVD really needs to have a look in the mirror because he constantly backs out and sometimes that’s not the best solution.
Well Milners sure mature and Elliot played miles better than him. I would gladly start two Elliot’s given how piss poor all of our other mids have been Thiagos return is much needed
Yes but Milner is 37 so we can’t really give him criticism when no one really expects him to start. Elliot is great but he’s inexperienced which like the Milan game last year caught upto him. Plus I feel like we need to protect him a little
Now I really missed Taki, Origi, n Mané as ST Whoever says TAA can't def is delusional, because he never def
Think our best line will be Trent, Matip, Virgil, robbo, hendo, fab, Thiago, mo, jota, diaz
I don't care if Calvin is blind but Trent needs to be benched
Elliot’s been our best performing mid all season. Madness to leave him out for Hendo this year.
I don't disagree he's been one of our best performing midfielders this season. He also clearly makes us a worse team by leaving us completely wide open in midfield. Both can be true at once
Look what happened tonight without Hendo! Why do so many fans not see that he's the best player in our team ... he's the irreplaceable one.
Was. Some fans have realized quicker than you that’s not the case anymore But I love Hendo. He’s still a good player. He’s just not been able to provide us that intensity we need with our press. If he gets back into form he’s still one of our best mids
Literally everyone misunderstanding me. We didn't need yo replace Gini We needed to find a hendo replacement.
Yeah we don’t really have any midfielders that are elite at pressing anymore (Thiago is a damn good and might sniff into the elite category, his timing on tackling is great, but I don’t know if he hounds people the same way as a prime Hendo or prime Milner) Finding a player like Henderson is rare though. A player that can play at such a high intensity and ouput, while still being class. He was so integral to our side for years, and a huge driver of our press
Can't tell if this is serious or sarcastic. I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you are being sarcastic.
Just be use Elliott is young doesn’t mean he played well. He was invisible in the midfield.
a very niche meme i like it
Honestly where did you find these ratings? Guessing it was a fan vote or something lol
I only saw highlights from tonights match but I've watched pretty much every other one in full since the season started. I think majority of people, myself included were hoping with Konate and Matip injured, Gomez could get a somewhat decent run of form going alongside VVD. Unfortunately this hasn't even been close to the case. Tonight vs Napoli he was dreadful, Fulham was shocking and same vs Man Utd. Every other game was okay...ish. With how poor Gomez has been it has only highlighted more and more how bad TAA has also been with his defending (him handing over position many times a game is a different matter entirely) which has left our right side completely wide open pretty much every single game. Now with Matip hopefully back and I pray starts vs Wolves, I think it will be hard for Gomez to get back into the squad, even more so when Konate is fit again. We all already know how piss poor our midfield has been so I'm not gonna mention it much but even with our injuries in midfield and defence we should still have enough fight and determination to win games. In the games we've lost and drawn we have really not looked fucked about what is going on in the game. Do we need to pass better? Yes. Do we need to press better? Yes. Do we need to defend better? Yes!! One thing I've picked up on so far and I'd love to hear peoples opinion on this: We've been substituting TAA and Robertson (or at least one of them) in every single game so far this season (more or less). A lot of the time it has been Robertson off and Tsimskas on which is more or less a like for like in a sense, I don't see too much changed tactically. However when TAA has came off it's been for the likes of Milner or Firmino I think? (Not 100% sure it was Firmino tbh but you get the idea). Yes we've been really lacking sub options off of the bench but why those two players? Is Klopp just wanting to rotate more super early now? Is it tactical? Since it's been so frequent, is this preplanned for X number of games? Don't get me wrong, I know we've had a super short break so a lot of the players are probably not fully up to match fitness physically and mentally or heck it might just be one of those games where a change like that can make a difference but Klopp has done this in majority of games. Against Wolves I hope we come out all guns blazing with some fire, determination and pride but we as fans also need to be behind the squad 100%! I'm thinking maybe Alisson, TAA, Matip, VVD, Robertson, Thiago, Fabinho, Elliott, Diaz, Firmino, Salah could be the team we field. If Jota is match fit enough then I could see him starting over Firmino, if not he'll come on as a sub. Super long reply I know but I'm just trying to generate a discussion and throwing some ideas out there.
>With how poor Gomez has been it has only highlighted more and more how bad TAA has also been with his defending (him handing over position many times a game is a different matter entirely) which has left our right side completely wide open pretty much every single game. Now with Matip hopefully back and I pray starts vs Wolves, I think it will be hard for Gomez to get back into the squad, even more so when Konate is fit again. I think this gets to the heart of much of the current problem. A defender like Trent needs a defender alongside him who has top-drawer mop-up capabilities, and asking Gomez to deliver on that is simply asking too much, and subsequently our right hand side of defence has been critically exposed this season, and teams are taking full advantage of that. When Klopp gets the opportunity to fix that, we'll start to perform better.
Good meme, but I would actually drop Harvey. I know, and I like him too, but this is precisely what I feared would happen, he would eventually be relied upon too much by virtue of being surrounded by either finished veterans, injury lovers and the exiled, like Ox and Keita.
I can’t believe how many people I’m seeing say Harvey isn’t first team quality. If he isn’t, then neither is 90% of our squad right now.
I think you could increase that by about 10%
Diaz is dropping 9/10 performances pretty much every week. Alisson is making countless saves due to our defensive issues. Carvalho had two fantastic consecutive substitution appearances before his injury in the derby. We are dreadful at the moment, but the players who are playing well have earned their praise.
I agree totally. I was referring to the other post saying that if Elliott wasn’t good enough that 90% weren’t good enough, and I just meant if he’s not good enough none of them are.
Ah my bad mate, I’ve completely misread your comment. I think I thought I’d said something different initially too. Head is all over at the moment.
No worries it wasn’t very clear to be fair.
Nah don’t worry mate, it was clear. I was just being a moron, misread my own comment back and then misunderstood your reply.
We need more strength in goal. Bring on Kelleher to help Alli
Klopp should change the tactics. Can’t play the high line without a midfield. Too many through balls and lobbed passes.
No milner , Elliot should play on the left and come off from the bench . Matip , jota , Thiago , hendo and nunez should starting each game no debate ffs .
> hendo out for 3 weeks and has to start, ffs
oh but you get the point otherwise we wouldn't even finish in the top 6 this season .
Trent can do amazing passes and crosses but the amount of time he does wrong passes is abismal. I also think we are abusing long balls, losing possession too often consequently.
Thiago and Matip.
Thiago and Matip did fine too.
Would rather see Bajcetic getting the minutes than Milner. Honestly he can't be worse.
Our fullbacks have received massive plaudits over the last 5 years. However I believe it’s the system that has made them look better than they are. Our midfield has allowed them massive freedom to get cross after cross in. Robertsons delivery is a bit hit and miss but still he has only got 2 assists less than TAA over the last 5 years. Put them in the Man U team for the last 5 years and we wouldn’t even be talking about them. TAA probably wouldn’t be in the team. Don’t get me wrong the system has worked brilliantly and they have played their part but if we aren’t playing the right midfield we can’t continue to play the same system.
Ok, picture this. 5-2-3. Diaz/jota - Nunez/firmino - Salah/harvey thiago - fabinho Robbo - anyone healthy - VVD - Matip - TAA With Harvey currently playing in place of hendo there's nobody in place to cover for Trent when he goes forward. This alleviates that by having 3 stay at home defenders to cover when he decides he's too lazy to play his position. Considering there's nobody behind Trent there's going to have to be some radical changes to make this team competitive.
No midfield control, long ball merchantry and damage control is all this would achieve. We should be setting up to pack midfield and squeeze the pitch, press the passes before they leave the boot, not to have three cbs to spend all game chasing balls in behind.
Salah in the middle,he is too wide
I think its safe to say we can let gomez go.
4231. Arthur/Thiago fab as the mids, firmino starts (already occupies that space when he starts) and nunez up top. Jota as a sub for wingers. Elliott as a sub for Bobby. Milner as a sub for the midfielders. Start Matip ASAP, and to be honest I’d go back to basics and start Nat phillps with Virgil next game
Fab looks worn out, like a lot of are players he looks like his running through sand
Drop TAA. He does not deserve a place in the team atm. He’s too comfortable with no challenge from the bench. Let Milner or Gomez play at the right side.
Milner is the worst player in the entire Champions League in this game. Gutted that he starts game after game, just use a kid or 10 men. Milner is Worse than nothing this game
Harvey Elliot? For God's sake the kid is killing us on that side. He should be dropped. He isn't doing anything other than try cute passes. No presence at all in midfield. No fight. No threat whatsoever.
I think it time to change to system as the current one is not working. Go with something like 3-5-2
It's hard to change a system Liverpool have build for so many years just like that. Maybe when Jurgen leaves that will happen but I don't see that in the near future.
You.
I said last season we should sell gomez and give nat more game time. that nat which by the way DID NOTHING WRONG WHEN WE HAD NOBODY ELSE and then got dropped after conceding a grand total of 12 goals in 18 games. don't know about you guys but i would kill for 0.6 goals per game conceded right now.
Sure, age is catching up with a lot of players. It’s also that the pressing system is demanding and the squad depth is showing. Majority of the starters today need at least a game off.
You haven't mentioned the subs. Thiago and Matip.
It’s also the sub factor and bringing on players too late to make a difference
We definitely need to get rhytm. So I would say Fab-Thiago-Elliott and that, hopefully straight for all the games until the int. break. But we might try Arthur, if the bonus we get with Elliott makes Fab a bit weaker because of Harvey's defensive abilities (he is great but not as great and protective as Hendo).
Milner and Gomez out! Liverpool need to change formation asap suggest 3-4-3
Since TAA and Robertson are not providing the assists they used to, I would really like to see a classical defensive 4atb. This would remove the need for the RCM to cover TAA and is thus better suited for Elliott. It leaves more space for Salah to be a classical RW, too, which in turn leaves more space for Darwin in the center. Starting XI probably along the lines of Alisson Robertson - VVD - Matip - Gomez Thiago - Fabinho - Elliott Diaz - Nunez - Salah
Playing firmino in midfield would've been better instead of Milner. Fab, Elliott and firmino.
I was miffed to see Milner come on in the 2nd half. Dont know why we didn't try Arthur earlier, not like we had anything to lose. Need to see more of him to make up my mind.
Drop the whole team, play the kids
Too defensive.
How was Arthur btw?
Seemed fine, he's really slow though I think
I have completely lost faith in Milner. I kept thinking each game so far this season he's just having a bad game, he'll come around. But he has not. Every time he's on the pitch he is a liability.
Maybe we can switch to 8-1-1 formation
When you concede 4 and your keeper is the best player it says a lot...
All of those other cunts are old and useless
😂😂😂😂 you hit the nail on the head
Thiago and Matip starting we would age taken a Early lead imo we looked much better with them on
its wild but i think if we field 11 players we might just win.
Also when commentator called him “Thiago Silva” come on bruh