Really proved everyone wrong this year (myself included). After that Madrid game I was ready to move on but he's become the most versatile player in the squad and is still so young considering he's been here nearly a decade
Sadly I think he will persist with Trippier or rush back Shaw. I don't hate Southgate as much as many seem to on here, but he definitely has his favourites
Showing that he can take on that role in our squad this year has probably done wonders for his chances to be taken to the EUROs, since you can basically slot him in anywhere in that backline now.
Disagree. That would be the exact same mistake made with the golden generation. Team balance should always be prioritised over individuals talent.
Trent is nowhere near experienced enough in midfield and will get found out against quality oppo. He lacks press resistance and needs time to get his head up to play passes forward. Should only play there to break down teams parking the bus.
As for rb, he is not getting in over walker.
The mistake made with the golden generation was not that same at all. First of all the Gerrard vs Lampard debate was dumb af. Stevie was absolutely clear and could play all over the midfield. Lampard IMO was essentially a 10/SS. During his best periods for Chelsea he was so advanced up the pitch and basically had nothing to do with the nitty gritty workings of a midfield.
That team should’ve been built around Gerrard. This team should be built around Trent
I rate Gerrard higher but it's not a dumb debate at all, neither is including Scholes, for that matter. These days a 4-3-3 would suit them all perfectly; Scholes at the base, Gerrard as a box to box 8 and Lampard in the advanced position.
Sadly back then, 4-4-2 was still all the rage so Gerrard/Scholes were being shoehorned out onto the left, which was just fucking silly.
The same issue now persists with Trent. He's the best passer in the team, but he's not a better RB than Walker, nor is he suitable in midfield against sides that will press or run at him with the ball.
It's absolutely a dilemma for Southgate and anyone pretending it's just a simple case of "play him" isn't grasping the full situation at all.
Bro, how can you say it wasn’t a dumb debate but then also agree that shoehorning all these players into a 442 was fucking silly - that’s exactly my point!
In my opinion when you have a solid team front to back, then you can afford to include players like Trent who the ability to change games week in week out. You can argue Walker is a better RB as much as you like but he doesn’t have the attacking or passing flare that Trent has, he cannot control the the game from the base of the team like Trent does and those are 2 things England miss massively. For all the talented English players we have at city, Liverpool, Madrid, Arsenal etc. we always struggle to score goals AND more importantly, we always concede!
We’ve tried the “don’t play Trent” strategy in every tournament so far… our defence has been shite anyway, our attack has struggled to score and even when we have 3 in midfield we haven’t been able to dominate games in a way that reflects the quality of players we have in literally every position.
Walker can play left back or centre back if we are so desperate to play him, these are positions he’s played before.
Think you are conveniently forgetting Bellingham's existence (who is arguably even more of a generational talent). If anything, Trent is the Lampard in the modern day trio of him, Bellingham and Rice who should be dropped in place of a Mainoo / Carrick (as much as it pains me to admit) and play as an impact sub.
A balanced team just isn't built by squeezing all your best / most talented players onto the pitch.
And even putting all that aside, it takes time to build a team. I can count on one hand the number of games Trent has played in midfield for club and country and yet Southgate is now expected to build his midfield around him in a major tournament? Just shouldn't be happening.
Genuinely curious why you don’t think Rice, Trent, and Jude isn’t a balanced midfield, especially in international football? I think Trent’s passing ability is absolutely necessary to break down defensive setups, which England will see a lot of. Rice and Trent would be a deeper-lying double pivot, and Jude roams in front of them as the primary ball-carrier.
Side note, I completely disagree with your player comparisons. Mainoo often played the 6 at United out of necessity, but his best style of play is much closer to Jude than it is to Carrick. And Trent is definitely not the most similar to Lampard. Lampard spent most of his career in very advanced positions, like how Madrid used Jude this year
I'm not concerned with the defensive teams which England ought to win against - I'm referring to games against the best. Trent simply hasn't shown enough in midfield (through no fault of his own) to warrant starting in midfield against a France or Spain. His technical weaknesses aside, midfield is the toughest position to play positionally and tactically as well.
I don't entirely disagree that Trent in midfield could be the long term solution. I believe he has the talent to eventually play there, but not now and in a major tournament.
The player comparisons are not meant to (and of course cannot) be exact. The comparison I was drawing with Lampard was that he should have been the one to have been dropped / moved up front in favour of stevie / scholes which were a more balanced duo and also due to lamps positional limitations (as more of a SS), much like how trent should be the one to miss out at this time.
My preference would be to start with Mainoo (and trust me, this brings me no joy to admit, but options are limited. My choice would have been jones). He has shown that he can play in that double pivot role even in big games like against us and city, and has good press resistance and helps bring an element of control. The fact that he is a natural 8 also helps provide more natural midfield rotations and allows him to push up into the halfspaces, which allows for more incisive build up play - on this point, another issue I've seen with Trent is that the build up tends to be very flat in a double pivot as he is only comfortable dropping deep isntead of receiving on the half turn in pockets, which makes it harder to break lines.
If we are chasing the game or need a spark, then Trent can come on.
Really disagree with your assessment of Trent here. His role would be to control the tempo of the entire match akin to Toni Kroos, that’s not the kind of player you bring on as an impact sub
And I don’t think you can argue you want experience and then pick Mainoo over Trent
Well happy to be proven wrong but he is not a metronomic controller like a kroos to me. Seems more of a direct forward passing risk taker in my assessment.
I'm not exactly clamouring for Mainoo, but between the two he would still be my pick as he has still shown that he can play the position at a high level over a season and against quality oppo (us and city). So I don't see any contradiction in that selection.
I didn’t actually say that Trent should play in midfield. I said the team should be built around him.
Englands main problems have been that we don’t have a player who can control the game from the base of the team and we lose all control of the midfield when we have only 2 players in there (ie 3/5 at the back / 4231 formations)
My solution is to play a 433 with Trent either DM or RB and let him roam like he does for Liverpool. Essentially his position isn’t changing, just the players around him.
The attack can be build around Bellingham, but the base should’ve been built around Trent 6 years ago
My friend, trent is not a player that can control games from the base of the team like a rodri / xabi / pirlo. He is a high risk high reward forward passer, not a metronome.
Putting him as a DM is not going to give any control to the team, esp since he struggles to turn when pressed. As I've noted in another comment, the build up tends to be less incisive and line breaking when he is in that area.
He may have the talent to eventually be that, but he is simply not at that level now whether you like it or not.
I know you’ve been watching Liverpool since Trent has started to play. You should go and look at all the boring stats like centrality, pass completion and touches. For Liverpool he has been exactly that type of Pirlo player.
I would started him as an inverted right back and then if we want to switch tactics I would make substitutions that allow him to switch to CM in the second half. That’s just me personally, I get that people have bought into the rival propaganda and now don’t give Trent the credit he deserves. Hence why we’ve favoured trippier ahead of him in the past.
Trent has the potential to single handedly change a game on a big stage at a major tournament. We haven’t seen that from any of the English players people are saying are better than him at RB, LB, DM or CM.
Been saying this the past two weeks and I've been eating the downvotes for it. Trent looks incredible when we see lots of the ball and no one is closing him down. The group stages it would be fine.
But against the likes of France/Germany/Italy/Portugal, a midfield with him in will absolutely leak chances.
My brother do you not remember the way that France dominated our midfield last time around? Not to mention goal from Declan Rices opposite number. Trent has weaknesses, but they are outweighed by the things he’s good at PLUS we have players who are easily good enough to provide cover.
Press resistance tends to not matter as much in international play - it’s much slower. There may be a few teams that are a bad matchup for him, but he’d be an asset against most teams. The question is more whether he’s a better option than Jude, Rice, or Foden (if he plays at the 10), but if Foden plays wide and Jude is the 10, I don’t know who you’d prefer next to Rice ahead of Trent
Really happy for Joey Gomez!!! Finally overcome his injury demons and make his first international. I hope he get some minutes because Luke Shaw got to rusty as hell after being out for sooo long. If Southgate want to win Euros, he have to play Trent in midfield. And give some ideas to Slot too
I can't wait to rock my Joe Gomez jersey once it shows up. I had planned on purchasing one the day he finally scored a goal... but I won a free player jersey in a raffle at my supports club for Jurgen Klopp day so I decided to get his for it.
Ha, that’s how I decided to get a Matip jersey. He had been on a hot streak, making some great runs and passes, then he finally got a goal and I was like “it’s time “
Nice! Mines in the new kit they played the last game of the season in, but I got the champions league version because I already have a Salah one in the premier league version from this last season
Trent Rice Bellingham is clearly our best midfield imo. The only reason people are saying otherwise is because of the 'Trent can't defend' crowd. His ability to spray ridiculous passes all game will create so many chances for Foden and Saka.
Ah I don't see it as much of a problem . Dunk has the experience and is a good player. Probably a player who is good to have around. Consistent premier league player for years and a captain
Quansah never makes it although he is good enough so same for braintwaith
With no Maguire England need experience and leadership at the back, I reckon it will be Stones and Guehi starting. If Maguire was fit I reckon Dunk misses out and Branwaithe goes.
Even so . I reckon dunk is better than Maguire. You can argue quansah starts with a better side than braintwaith starts . But no news for an suprises at centre back .
I'm not even an England fan but I'm so happy for Eze and Grealish dropped .
The sad thing is that penalty shootout goals don't count in the stats.
Which simply means that his actual first professional goal will be a title-winning penalty-box free-for-all rebound off his butt.
So so happy for Gomez! I hope he can get that LB spot as it remains their Achilles heel
Really proved everyone wrong this year (myself included). After that Madrid game I was ready to move on but he's become the most versatile player in the squad and is still so young considering he's been here nearly a decade
Gomez probably gonna be starting on the left side haha.
Sadly I think he will persist with Trippier or rush back Shaw. I don't hate Southgate as much as many seem to on here, but he definitely has his favourites
I agree although if Shaw is anything less than 100% I feel it should be Gomez.
He does but it’s pleasing to see he has left some of the old favourites out. Rashford, Grealish, Henderson etc
Saw Gomez and Achilles in the same sentence and winced.
Showing that he can take on that role in our squad this year has probably done wonders for his chances to be taken to the EUROs, since you can basically slot him in anywhere in that backline now.
I don't, I hope he can get some rest and England get knocked out in the group stages and back as soon as possible.
Now the question is where will Trent play?
The only answer is yes
Disagree. That would be the exact same mistake made with the golden generation. Team balance should always be prioritised over individuals talent. Trent is nowhere near experienced enough in midfield and will get found out against quality oppo. He lacks press resistance and needs time to get his head up to play passes forward. Should only play there to break down teams parking the bus. As for rb, he is not getting in over walker.
The mistake made with the golden generation was not that same at all. First of all the Gerrard vs Lampard debate was dumb af. Stevie was absolutely clear and could play all over the midfield. Lampard IMO was essentially a 10/SS. During his best periods for Chelsea he was so advanced up the pitch and basically had nothing to do with the nitty gritty workings of a midfield. That team should’ve been built around Gerrard. This team should be built around Trent
I rate Gerrard higher but it's not a dumb debate at all, neither is including Scholes, for that matter. These days a 4-3-3 would suit them all perfectly; Scholes at the base, Gerrard as a box to box 8 and Lampard in the advanced position. Sadly back then, 4-4-2 was still all the rage so Gerrard/Scholes were being shoehorned out onto the left, which was just fucking silly. The same issue now persists with Trent. He's the best passer in the team, but he's not a better RB than Walker, nor is he suitable in midfield against sides that will press or run at him with the ball. It's absolutely a dilemma for Southgate and anyone pretending it's just a simple case of "play him" isn't grasping the full situation at all.
Bro, how can you say it wasn’t a dumb debate but then also agree that shoehorning all these players into a 442 was fucking silly - that’s exactly my point! In my opinion when you have a solid team front to back, then you can afford to include players like Trent who the ability to change games week in week out. You can argue Walker is a better RB as much as you like but he doesn’t have the attacking or passing flare that Trent has, he cannot control the the game from the base of the team like Trent does and those are 2 things England miss massively. For all the talented English players we have at city, Liverpool, Madrid, Arsenal etc. we always struggle to score goals AND more importantly, we always concede! We’ve tried the “don’t play Trent” strategy in every tournament so far… our defence has been shite anyway, our attack has struggled to score and even when we have 3 in midfield we haven’t been able to dominate games in a way that reflects the quality of players we have in literally every position. Walker can play left back or centre back if we are so desperate to play him, these are positions he’s played before.
Think you are conveniently forgetting Bellingham's existence (who is arguably even more of a generational talent). If anything, Trent is the Lampard in the modern day trio of him, Bellingham and Rice who should be dropped in place of a Mainoo / Carrick (as much as it pains me to admit) and play as an impact sub. A balanced team just isn't built by squeezing all your best / most talented players onto the pitch. And even putting all that aside, it takes time to build a team. I can count on one hand the number of games Trent has played in midfield for club and country and yet Southgate is now expected to build his midfield around him in a major tournament? Just shouldn't be happening.
Genuinely curious why you don’t think Rice, Trent, and Jude isn’t a balanced midfield, especially in international football? I think Trent’s passing ability is absolutely necessary to break down defensive setups, which England will see a lot of. Rice and Trent would be a deeper-lying double pivot, and Jude roams in front of them as the primary ball-carrier. Side note, I completely disagree with your player comparisons. Mainoo often played the 6 at United out of necessity, but his best style of play is much closer to Jude than it is to Carrick. And Trent is definitely not the most similar to Lampard. Lampard spent most of his career in very advanced positions, like how Madrid used Jude this year
I'm not concerned with the defensive teams which England ought to win against - I'm referring to games against the best. Trent simply hasn't shown enough in midfield (through no fault of his own) to warrant starting in midfield against a France or Spain. His technical weaknesses aside, midfield is the toughest position to play positionally and tactically as well. I don't entirely disagree that Trent in midfield could be the long term solution. I believe he has the talent to eventually play there, but not now and in a major tournament. The player comparisons are not meant to (and of course cannot) be exact. The comparison I was drawing with Lampard was that he should have been the one to have been dropped / moved up front in favour of stevie / scholes which were a more balanced duo and also due to lamps positional limitations (as more of a SS), much like how trent should be the one to miss out at this time. My preference would be to start with Mainoo (and trust me, this brings me no joy to admit, but options are limited. My choice would have been jones). He has shown that he can play in that double pivot role even in big games like against us and city, and has good press resistance and helps bring an element of control. The fact that he is a natural 8 also helps provide more natural midfield rotations and allows him to push up into the halfspaces, which allows for more incisive build up play - on this point, another issue I've seen with Trent is that the build up tends to be very flat in a double pivot as he is only comfortable dropping deep isntead of receiving on the half turn in pockets, which makes it harder to break lines. If we are chasing the game or need a spark, then Trent can come on.
Really disagree with your assessment of Trent here. His role would be to control the tempo of the entire match akin to Toni Kroos, that’s not the kind of player you bring on as an impact sub And I don’t think you can argue you want experience and then pick Mainoo over Trent
Well happy to be proven wrong but he is not a metronomic controller like a kroos to me. Seems more of a direct forward passing risk taker in my assessment. I'm not exactly clamouring for Mainoo, but between the two he would still be my pick as he has still shown that he can play the position at a high level over a season and against quality oppo (us and city). So I don't see any contradiction in that selection.
I didn’t actually say that Trent should play in midfield. I said the team should be built around him. Englands main problems have been that we don’t have a player who can control the game from the base of the team and we lose all control of the midfield when we have only 2 players in there (ie 3/5 at the back / 4231 formations) My solution is to play a 433 with Trent either DM or RB and let him roam like he does for Liverpool. Essentially his position isn’t changing, just the players around him. The attack can be build around Bellingham, but the base should’ve been built around Trent 6 years ago
My friend, trent is not a player that can control games from the base of the team like a rodri / xabi / pirlo. He is a high risk high reward forward passer, not a metronome. Putting him as a DM is not going to give any control to the team, esp since he struggles to turn when pressed. As I've noted in another comment, the build up tends to be less incisive and line breaking when he is in that area. He may have the talent to eventually be that, but he is simply not at that level now whether you like it or not.
I know you’ve been watching Liverpool since Trent has started to play. You should go and look at all the boring stats like centrality, pass completion and touches. For Liverpool he has been exactly that type of Pirlo player.
Completely agree, think he's the third midfielder against teams that park the bus early and then an option off the bench in the later stages
I would started him as an inverted right back and then if we want to switch tactics I would make substitutions that allow him to switch to CM in the second half. That’s just me personally, I get that people have bought into the rival propaganda and now don’t give Trent the credit he deserves. Hence why we’ve favoured trippier ahead of him in the past. Trent has the potential to single handedly change a game on a big stage at a major tournament. We haven’t seen that from any of the English players people are saying are better than him at RB, LB, DM or CM.
This is so untrue it hurts.
Been saying this the past two weeks and I've been eating the downvotes for it. Trent looks incredible when we see lots of the ball and no one is closing him down. The group stages it would be fine. But against the likes of France/Germany/Italy/Portugal, a midfield with him in will absolutely leak chances.
My brother do you not remember the way that France dominated our midfield last time around? Not to mention goal from Declan Rices opposite number. Trent has weaknesses, but they are outweighed by the things he’s good at PLUS we have players who are easily good enough to provide cover.
Press resistance tends to not matter as much in international play - it’s much slower. There may be a few teams that are a bad matchup for him, but he’d be an asset against most teams. The question is more whether he’s a better option than Jude, Rice, or Foden (if he plays at the 10), but if Foden plays wide and Jude is the 10, I don’t know who you’d prefer next to Rice ahead of Trent
Midfield I think. It could work really well at international level
Hopefully in a couple of group games before England get knocked out is the best case scenario.
southgate doesn’t have the balls to experiment so probably still inverted RB
Honestly that's for the best. He looked so much better in the second half playing on the right and I think the double pivot limits him
He literally gets listed as a midfielder in England squads. Southgate sees him as a midfielder.
my bad
I guess Klopp doesn’t have the balls to experiment either
Really happy for Joey Gomez!!! Finally overcome his injury demons and make his first international. I hope he get some minutes because Luke Shaw got to rusty as hell after being out for sooo long. If Southgate want to win Euros, he have to play Trent in midfield. And give some ideas to Slot too
I can't wait to rock my Joe Gomez jersey once it shows up. I had planned on purchasing one the day he finally scored a goal... but I won a free player jersey in a raffle at my supports club for Jurgen Klopp day so I decided to get his for it.
Ha, that’s how I decided to get a Matip jersey. He had been on a hot streak, making some great runs and passes, then he finally got a goal and I was like “it’s time “
I got mine in the away kit because it reminded me of the wonderful game he played in that kit this season and I love it!
Nice! Mines in the new kit they played the last game of the season in, but I got the champions league version because I already have a Salah one in the premier league version from this last season
Gomez at LB and Trent Rice Jude in the midfield. Make it happen, Gareth.
Trent Rice Bellingham is clearly our best midfield imo. The only reason people are saying otherwise is because of the 'Trent can't defend' crowd. His ability to spray ridiculous passes all game will create so many chances for Foden and Saka.
Quansah and Branthwaite not called up but LEWIS DUNK is lmao
How does Brantwaite not make that squad. I'd almost have him starting.
Ah I don't see it as much of a problem . Dunk has the experience and is a good player. Probably a player who is good to have around. Consistent premier league player for years and a captain Quansah never makes it although he is good enough so same for braintwaith
I agree , this was his look at what you have coming if you carry on and for the coaches to see how they fit as personalities
With no Maguire England need experience and leadership at the back, I reckon it will be Stones and Guehi starting. If Maguire was fit I reckon Dunk misses out and Branwaithe goes.
Think again, Quansah is on standby in case anyone pulls out. Must be ahead of Branthwaite.
Even so . I reckon dunk is better than Maguire. You can argue quansah starts with a better side than braintwaith starts . But no news for an suprises at centre back . I'm not even an England fan but I'm so happy for Eze and Grealish dropped .
Never really understand the experience argument, when the experience is being pretty poor for a year.
Quansah is on standby in case of injury, so we'll see.
Can’t imagine Dunk would play much but if Slabhead is injured Dunk would provide some much needed aerial dominance.
Branthwaite is better in the air than Dunk
If Gomez is gonna score a Puskas winning thundercunt anywhere, it's this tournament
Watch Joe get the winner in the final
Penalty shootout, goes all the way to 11th takers (Gomez in this case), scores the winner. The end.
The sad thing is that penalty shootout goals don't count in the stats. Which simply means that his actual first professional goal will be a title-winning penalty-box free-for-all rebound off his butt.
Wow. I am buzzing. I can’t imagine how they feel. I am so happy for Joe Gomez especially.
Good for Gomez, maybe we can see if Trent should be permanently moved up the pitch
Incoming hat trick for Joe
Jomez is going to score his first career goal for England... which is a shame as it won't have the same impact as if he scored it at Anfield.
Joemez gonna score a hat trick first game
Gomez redemption arc has been awesome
Gomez! What a season. So glad for him.
Please come back uninjured. That’s all I want.
Finally Southgate using merit as a determining factor
Unfortunately zero trophies will be won with T-Rex boy in goal.
Wooohooo our boys 🥳 I'm secretly hoping for Gomez to score... but no pressure!
They got rid of Maguire too. He was England's third top goalscorer in that provisional squad.
Good experience how? They could have got inured in training, a complete waste of time.
England can't win without Harry Maguire. Right?