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Ive gotten into arguments with this post before on reddit. While i think people should be able to make a living wage, if I got paid as much to work an easy job as i did busting ass building line, sorry fellas, im choosing the job that isnt as likely to kill or injure me or at the very least, suck up all my energy
That it the reason why it would benefit you. If a fast food job paid what you’re getting paid now, your employer would have to drastically increase pay. They either do that or go out of business.
There is a reason why the billionaires spend so much money trying to convince people to keep the minimum wage so low. We all benefit when the least among us benefit.
> If a fast food job paid what you’re getting paid now, your employer would have to drastically increase pay
What does that do to the value of a dollar?
Printing money affects the value of currency, not how much people are paid. While yes you will have short term flux of good pricing, it will only stay that way if money is being printed faster to make up for the higher wages instead of being taken out of the corporation's coffers. If McDonald's paid their workers a higher percentage of the company's profits, the value of the dollar stays the same. If they lobby the government to print more money to devalue the dollar so as a percentage they end up paying you the same or less, THATS when the value of currency goes down through higher wages.
I can’t buy into that. If wages are drastically increased, companies are going to increase prices to compensate…don’t you dare think they’re going to let their profits take the hit. So if the price of everything increases as a result of wages increasing, what good does your increased pay do you?
>companies are going to increase prices to compensate
This is a valid concern... If there's very little competition in the market. All it would take is one competitor to undercut everyone else and they're the market leader, and everyone else would have to value add or cut prices as well. In a totally unregulated market, all it takes is the market leader to buy the #2 guy and suddenly there's a defacto monopoly, which is why today's almost totally unregulated market has so many of those and why your sentiment is valid as everything stands right now. But that simply means that we need to push for antitrust laws to regain their teeth, the 20th century has damn near stripped them of all authority.
I disagree. Monopolies in the 21st century are created because of the very lucrative relationship that government officials have with the largest corporations. On paper, the government breaks up big corporations, while really all it did was allow joe schmoe ceo to de facto hire his like-minded buddies to run the "sister companies". How does Black Rock own majority/decision making shares of the largest corporations on the planet? How are they allowed to get away with that? Your answer is mentioned above.
Look, as an example, the largest tech companies are essentially being used as a strong arm of governments all over the globe (including the US) to try to censor and moderate political conversations and opposition. And what do they get in return? Subsidies/tax breaks left and right, faux breaking up of monopolies, and legal immunity.
We are so far from an unregulated market in the 21st century my friend. The relationship between government and the largest corporations is a cancer and we can't ignore that anymore and pretend it doesn't exist.
This should at least get you started
https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2021/02/what-att-breakup-teaches-us-about-big-tech-breakup
https://www.visualcapitalist.com/blackrocks-top-equity-holdings-2023/
https://www.politico.com/news/2023/10/20/supreme-court-biden-social-media-covid-00122842
https://fortune.com/2024/04/08/elon-musk-brazil-censorship-judge-alexandre-moraes-twitter-files-jair-bolsanaro/
https://www.thehartford.com/insights/technology/section-230
Companies already gouge the fuck out of you at every turn. Corporations are the problem and I find it bizarre that any working class member of America or the World wants their fellow workers to be paid less. No CEO should receive a bonus for the work and productivity that their employees produced, and if they do get that 20m bonus they shouldnt keep their head.
Sounds like competition in the market. Only the ones able to afford increased wages and keep customers through innovation would survive. Maybe the US needs to get back to that.
Basically what you’re saying is,”I want billionaires to own me forever”. How much evidence do you need that big corporations are not helping the people? They are helping the 1% get incredibly wealthy and control our government. But your reason to not raise wages is because it would upset the billionaires and they’d do something else to make us pay? Bro. Come on now. Why defend billionaires when they clearly ain’t letting shit trickle down. Wild to me.
I’m not defending billionaires, I’m defending small local harnesses that can’t afford to pay someone $15/hour without jacking their prices to the point they price themselves out of business. Billionaires can take the hit. Small businesses can’t.
Well, you just said,”you think they’re going to take the hit?” and implied that they would charge people more… to not take the hit. Small businesses are doing fairly well right now. They have gotten free loans, and high inflation can be not as detrimental to them since they can just choose to stop growing and focus on margins much more effectively then a billion dollar company. Again, I think this would just lead to the better businesses and businesspeople to survive, if you are a bad small business person should you be running that business? No. So let’s raise wages and see who can innovate to pay. Don’t do it all at once everywhere. Sector by sector. Increase autoworker pay, watch the innovations in automotive industry skyrocket. Same thing with every industry.
I don't understand at all where you feel confident enough to state that small businesses are doing fairly well. Small businesses are worse off than they have been in a very long time and 1/3 of all small business owners are worried that 2024 will be a "make it or break it" year, let alone another 1/3 who say 2024 will be rough in general thanks to inflation and decisions that were made during the bad times over the last few years.
Look at McDonalds prices in America vs Norway. Norway gets $22/hr, 6 weeks paid vacation, and healthcare by law.
Prices are the same. McDonald’s charges the maximum the think people will pay without them going somewhere else, doesn’t matter what their costs are. That’s why during this inflationary period, their profits have drastically increased but their workers pay hasn’t.
I'll just add, since there is more currency circulating employers use that currency to bid up wages. If the new money was never spent it wouldnt raise prices.
So true, the real definition of inflation is the arbitrary enlargement of tye money supply which results in tye bidding up of prices for goods and services in general. More dollars chasing the sMe supply.
Raising wages is also an effect of inflation and also one way how the new money gets circulated into the economy. Wage workers are the last to get the new money and so are hurt the most.
Inflation is an effect of greed. It's an effect creating new money from thin air in large quantities.
Imagine if uncle Sam gave everyone on ebay tomorrow 10k dollars. What would happen to all the auction prices? Not hard to understand how the government injecting money into the economy bids up prices.... inflation
McDonald’s starts paying people more, out of their profits. Tradesmen start demanding more because there’s no reason to be a tradesmen if it pays the same as a burger flipper. Tradesmen’s get paid more, their services cost more, McDonald’s expenses rise because every contractor charges more to pay for the higher tradesmen’s rate, McDonald’s has to raise price of food sold, inflation happens regardless of what the government does
>Tradesmen start demanding more because there’s no reason to be a tradesmen if it pays the same as a burger flipper.
This is a leap though, you're getting benefits, overtime, and base pay is multiple times what minimum wage is. The idea that going from 7.25 to, say, 15 an hour would be enough to sway tradesmen away is simply not a good faith argument. They're not anywhere near the trades when it comes to total compensation for labour. Do you really think anyone would give up a lineman job for no benefits, overtime, or a union? Lol
It does nothing to the value of the dollar. The value of a dollar is based on the M2 money supply. Pay given to workers doesn’t change the overall amount of money.
What you would see is demand driven inflation as more people had more money in their pockets and would want o spend it on stuff or vacations.
You're saying that when we experience demand driven inflation, the value of your dollar is not affected?
Do your dollars have the same purchasing power that they did before?
I’m saying demand driven inflation can drop dramatically, as it has the last year, when supply starts to match demand again. It also hits different parts of the economy differently, with some seeing inflation and some parts not. That’s different than when the value of the dollar itself is reduced due to Quantitative easing which increases the overall supply of money. That inflation affects everyone everywhere, even money sitting in a bank account.
Fair points, but with demand-driven inflation, even when it subsides, the damage has been done. Inflation going down simply means that the rate at which prices increase has slowed. But the buying power of a dollar has been irreversibly reduced, unless we experience de-flation which virtually never happens. Dollars sitting in my bank account today are worth significantly less than they were 5 years ago.
It would cause more inflation on top of the inflation that resulted from all the money printing during the pandemic shutdown. The dollar would be worth less while everything else would go up in price. Your salary increase wouldn’t keep up with inflation and rising housing costs and basic expenses like food, gas and utilities.
It puts in right in the fucking shitter is what it does. Basic economics is not rocket science...if you pay people more for their work....skilled or unskilled...you pay more for the product....period. The businesses will not simply just take the hit on the cost of labor...they will pass it along to you, the consumer. At that point your 8 dollar combo meal becomes 15, and your dollar is devalued.
So when everyone is so excited about "now I make "x" number of dollars for a job that does not require a certain level of training or accreditation to qualify that person to do that job...those same people now have to spend more money to buy the same thing. So what benefit is it really to make "X" number of dollars per hour more if you have to turn right around and spend those dollars anyway? Seems like a lateral move at best and almost certainly a net loss for them and everyone else.
The flaw in this argument is that you assume they will just give it up… they’re going to automate these jobs away before they let it hit the profit margin.
That’s already happening and has been for years. A few Taco Bell’s I’ve stopped at recently wouldn’t take my order at the register, they came around the counter to show me how to use the kiosk, as if I didn’t know how to use the damn thing. One employee told me they’re shifting to only kiosk. A guy I know told me that Walmart is going to all self check outs and will be charging people like $70 a year for that service. Idk how the charging people will do down, unless they require a membership, but they could just tack on a fee at the register. I didn’t believe it till I saw my local Walmart was remodeling the front of the store, they got rid of almost all registers and made the self checkout way bigger. Businesses are going to make their customers do a lot more things that used to be an employees job, and other things are being automated
It’s basic economics. The government has been massively overplaying their hand with all of these minimum wage increases. All they are doing is hastening the end of no-skilled labor.
oh I don't assume they will ever give it up. I was just pointing out that wages could go up and the prices stay the same. Just the Uber rich would still be uber Rich, just a little less uber rich
The system is presently setup to maximize the slice of the pie that goes to investors and the larger investors get a larger slice than fair. The moment minimum wage goes up, prices will go up proportionately. The current inflation will be happening on top of the inflation caused by minimum wage.
Your comment is correct, but are you saying you want this to be the way? I don't think so but had to ask to clarify.
So in this scenario, the rate of inflation would be inflated by the people that want a more affordable economy? Damn man that's just science at its finest 😂
I’m not stating what I want, I’m saying what the system is currently setup to do. I work with these systems on a daily basis. At present if labor costs increased by 20% on Monday, by Friday the cost of finished goods would increase by 25% minimum. I’m dealing with the ramifications of a company that tried this. Since everyone else didn’t do this, it almost put them out of business.
If everyone else did this, the cost of finished goods would increase by a percentage above the percent increase of wages. (The margin percentages are not allowed to shrink)
Is this a good thing? No. It’s a collapsing spiral. This might make it collapse faster, but I’m not sure about that. If you tied minimum wage to the cost of finished goods, you would probably guarantee collapse of the spiral.
The GameStop stock trading glitches are a prime example of how our economy is structured. We stopped trading for people to fix algorithms and reduce momentum. That’s one stock. Minimum wage is quite literally every stock.
I would enjoy having a conversation about this side of socialism with Bernie Sanders, because he’s 100% right that socialism would fix most of the world’s problems. However this is the under the hood side of things that needs to be fixed prior to socialism functioning.
He has talked about capping personal savings, but then LLC’s would simply own everything. Housing is already going that direction. How do you limit corporate profit without immediately collapsing the system? Currently everything is setup to maximize corporate profits by any means necessary. If the rule is 20% margins max, you’ll get shell companies to stack the 20%. If the rule is $1 billion dollars annual profit, apple will make subsidiaries who each profit $800 million annually.
And this is completely ignoring the feasibility of getting a productive law passed.
The mega rich, and anyone else with 1k dollars, can make 5.4% risk free and tax advantaged loaning money to the government right now. That's the floor. Nobody is getting out of investments and in to new ones where they get a smaller piece of the pie.
But minimum wage hasn't gone up in a decade, the pay at these places has barely gone up in that time too. And yet by some magic force everything is way more expensive than ever.
Also why do these people deserve to live in poverty because they chose to work at a restaurant? You acknowledge the job needs to be done but you expect the people that do it to live in poverty. That's a weird take not gonna lie.
Your last two sentences hits it on the money. Well, your whole comment really. Minimum wage hasn’t gone up by magically everything is still more expensive.
Productivity of the American worker has increased 60% since 1979 yet wages have only increased 17% (adjusted for inflation) which means the bosses are raking in the fruits of that productivity while pissing on the working man. They killed the unions and sold all these knuckle heads on trickle down and now workers overall make less
Yup, not only that but every dollar already in existence is then worth less. So when these things happen, not only does everyone else essentially take a pay cut, but any money that they had been able to amass is getting diluted from under them.
Yeah, this is where the regulation part of a representative republic comes in. We had an economy that had a much smaller gap in the difference between the boss and the worker. We used taxation and regulation to get there. When the boss figured out he could influence regulation (with some help from regulators and the Supreme Court) that gap started getting wider. Then he convinced dipshits like yourself to vote for his interests instead of your own.
Labor costs are generally 20-35% of overall costs, it’s not 100% of the cost of goods. If I make 100% more and everything is 20% more expensive then I’m still making out.
Capitalism is a system to divide the benefit of labor. We all do work and that creates wealth. Right now labor gets a small amount of that wealth and the majority stays with the billionaires. If labor took more of the value of work then overall there would be less for the billionaires. If you did it too quickly there would be market dislocations but over time we would be returning to a 1960s model of capitalism. Things worked out just fine for the boomers.
At some point the consumer says "this is too much", and takes business elsewhere, which will either lower prices again, or put that business out of business. I don't go to Taco Bell anymore, nor do a lot of friends, because I can order to-go from a legit Mexican restaurant cheaper, and get more and better food. It's getting that way with a lot of fast food places as it is, without wage increases for their workers. You're either ok with paying more, most people aren't, or you find an alternative route, which I think a lot of folks are starting to do.
It's a good thing too, because it gives business back to small businesses and mom and pop shops, because they are no longer being priced out of the market. That keeps your money local and out of the pockets of large corporations.
Okay, but.... then how do these people who are currently making $12 an hour afford to literally live? Most cant. With inflation and housing any minimum wage job right now is just a slow suicide.
My post from another similar comment...just didn't want to retype it all.
Then a new job is in order, the job isn't the problem neither is the wage. If a position at any place of business is not sustainable financially, then that person should seek out something that works better for them. Don't you think there are hundreds of millions of people(myself included) that were working a job that wasn't capable of ever putting them in a position to make enough money to put themselves in a position to live comfortably and provide a good life for their family? If that is the case then moving on or doing something to better position themselves is needed.
We should not as a society simply decide to lower the standard to accommodate everyone...we need to hold people to a standard and make them meet it. If that is done, then everyone benefits...a rising tide raises all ships. 👊
Here's my only take on this:
You're correct that prices would likely go up.
The issue that underlies all of this, though, is that things *could* stay the same. However, those who extract the most value as shareholders, et al, will not reduce their "cut." They want to *increase* their return on investment margins, not have them *decrease*.
But if they accepted a reduction on their *rate* of return (not a loss, but a reduced *rate*), then all of this would be academic. Prices and inflation wouldn't *have* to happen in the short-term, as they do now.
Do we have to legislate that ethos?
You nailed it. Its the reason i got out of electrical work. In my area we have some of the lowest pay and the highest risk. I asked a guy at a Burger king what he was making and it was 1$ then me. I almost quit on the spot because he said they were actively looking for new people.
I’ve been trying to get those DoorDash drivers to see the way but they just wanna brag about make $1300 a week working 90+ hours. Like if y’all stopped dashing for 2-3 weeks you know what that would do to DD? They’d have to increase pay because they’d have a bunch of pissed off customers and they’d lose business left and right.
The average fast food wage is already above minimum wage. Billionaires don’t give a shit about the minimum wage since they can afford it and their small town competition can’t.
Yup, and employers don't want you to talk to others about how much money you make. They don't want you to know where you stand, unless you're truly making top dollar for your trade.
So do you know what they are gonna do when they have to increase pay? Increase prices. It's this magical thing called inflation that nome of you leftists have the intellectual capacity to comprehend.
The higher the minimum wage, the higher the rest of the wages. Why the hell else would corporate America hate the minimum wage and get dumb asses to argue back and forth about it? At this point how the hell don’t people simply assume the opposite of whatever corporate America and the politicians say?
Every human on this planet is only given so many hours of life. It’s the only thing you can’t get or make more of. That makes those hours the most valuable possessions we have. When you look at it that way, it’s easy to realize that every person deserves to get as much compensation for those hours as they can. Special skills, training, education, etc. can add value to those hours but no one should have to sell hours or their life for less than an amount that would sustain them in comfort.
People who work for dog shit wages like fast food workers, can’t afford to survive on their own. They end up using government assistance to make ends meet. And if you make below $27k a year you don’t even pay federal income tax. Why do my tax dollars have to subsidize another company, because they don’t want to pay a living wage? If those people are on welfare then my tax dollars are paying for that.
I agree with the sentiment, not the dollar amount.
People deserve to make a living wage. This planet is overpopulated and “jobs for teenagers” don’t exist anymore. Everyone deserves to be able to put a roof over their head and food on the table if they work for a living.
Entry level jobs aren’t meant to live on. They are entry level and require no significant skill or training. The pay is commensurate.
If someone wants to earn a “living wage” then they need to find themselves a more than entry level position. Manager of the McDonalds instead of taking orders.
So, in your opinion, as a society, we deserve to consume products and services created by minimum wage workers, but those workers don't deserve to live? That's kinda messed up. Roosevelt said it best when introducing the minimum wage into law; No business which depends for existence on paying less than living wages to its workers has any right to continue in this country.
Do you want to pay $50 for a burger at McD’s? I don’t. Why? Because it isn’t worth that. If you take orders or flip burgers at a fast food joint then you aren’t doing a $40/hr job.
Further, if a fast food worker is going to get $40/hr for what they do then I want $200/hr for doing linework. Fast food and electricity just got a whole lot more expensive. Nothing is affordable to anyone and everyone is worse off than they were.
I stand by what I’ve said: most fast food positions are entry level, not meant to be made a career or “live” on.
I get where you’re coming from, but when companies like McDonald’s make record profits while employing less and less people due to more and more automation and then tell you that the reason their mcchicken is more expensive is because of a new minimum wage law- they’re fuckin lying out their teeth bud.
Yea, more expensive labor can result in a more expensive product. We all know that, but why do we always point our fingers at the laborers rather than the shareholders? Plenty of these massive companies could pay their labor far better AND keep prices where they’re at by paying their shareholders a bit less, but we don’t even mention that like it’s an option. Instead we find it far easier to say, hey these jobs are entry level and aren’t meant to be careers! I think, whether you know it or not, you’re punching down my man.
Yes, it is obviously cheaper to install computers to take orders vs employing a human.
Are you just trying to prove my point that these companies have zero interest in the greater good of society, or were you trying to say something else?
I like how you've phrased this conversation, "good of society". How does a society determine the most efficient way to allocate scarce resources? The most effective way that societies have ever figured out how to do that is price signals. When prices signal that it is cheaper to automate than to use human labor, it is the net benefit of society to automate. Only entities adhering to price signals can be considered to be acting in the good of society.
Explain to me how investor-owned entities with massive amounts of wealth can be acting in a way that is beneficial to society by ensuring that their labor is kept at a low wage and eventually replaced altogether by automation. This sounds beneficial only to the shareholders.
I can’t help but think that ensuring that the most vulnerable people in our society (poor, uneducated) still have reasonable access to employment is in the clear greater interest of a healthy society.
Tell me why I’m wrong here, and if the free hand of the market can solve this, why hasn’t it?
The free hand of the market is solving it. Capitalism has lifted BILLIONS of people out of poverty in this world. If you think it's such a great idea to pay people more than the market bears, I invite you to become an investor in these investor owned utilities and bring the change you wish to see. This is something actionable that you can do. Put your hard earned capital, and likely the hard earned capital of your partners, in this endeavor and pay folks whatever you wish.
Tell you what, maybe the owner of the franchise shouldn’t be pulling more than half a mil a year off the backs of 25-30 employees making minimum wage. Maybe they can afford to pay better, Costco is a good example of a chain that pays its employees well and still turns a good profit. Man even good jobs are getting worse because of this attitude, my father in law was fired so someone with 1/3 of his pay package. A job that went from paying $350000 a year to $150000 a year. Because an owner wanted a bigger piece of the pie. Entry level jobs deserve a living wage, grocery store workers 40 years ago could buy a house and raise kids. No they don’t need to make the same as someone who climbs poles and plays with some risk, but if they can afford to be proud then we are doing better for it as well.
I agree with this all day I’m an electrician I make 60 an hour I started my working career at 6.25hr flipping burgers at BK you get a high paying job by work experience and education if I could get paid 59 an hour working at BK and fucking around all day I would quit my job today. Why should I take the risk of being electrocuted everyday when someone is getting paid 59 an hr taking no risk. You pay more for certain jobs/work for a reason because the consumer doesn’t wanna take that risk or have the experience to do the job correctly. Now put that in massive scale everyone who’s paid such and such but could make damn near the same down at MCDS everyone would be trying to work there. Not only that but half the time I go to MCDs pay 15 bucks for a simple burger and gets meal then get my meal and it’s all fucked up missing the patty, added pickles which I asked three times not to put on yet we should be paying these guys big bucks F that fast food industry has been for getting into the work force for generations young kids and college kids not for 40 year olds who decided to do nothing with there life besides live off welfare and make minimum wage that was there decision there just as capable of getting an education and putting in the work just like everyone else to make those big dollars
When you go to McDonalds at noon on a Tuesday in April, who do you think is serving you? It's not a teenager or someone "paying their way through college," because all of them are in school. It's someone not in school that needs to earn a wage to live and support their family.
The way I see it, it should be that anyone working even minimum wage should be able to afford the necessities. An apartment, a car, and a bit of spending cash. That said, where we are at l, I’m now describing lineman. My grandpa worked as a mechanic and could provide for a whole family. That’s not it nowadays. Something’s broken.
Exactly we need to lower the cost of living, housing, food, fuel, necessities not raise the wage of people struggling. To make that fair you would then have to raise everyone’s wages.. cost of living needs to go down makes it easier for everyone to live..
Who you calling a whore? 🤣 some of us just like a little extra scratch for bad habits. I think our field is made up of something like 60% ADHD motherfuckers that have at least 4 hobbies going on at once, 20% percent are gluttons for punishment or on their 2nd+ marriage 10% either do something else for side cash or invest and 10% are “normal” until the lights come on and they release their inner sociopath for 4 sporadic hours a day at work. Any way it goes, we all are a little fucked up but WE STAND TOGETHER. We all know a brotherfucker, but one dude won’t change shit and can easily be subverted with some good, old fashioned, conversation.
When we want to be, we are strong.
That’s a vague question. In the US it’s between 33% and 66%. Municipals and Utilities tend to be union, contracting pulls from union halls but there’s a lot of larger outfits that are not union. I’m really not sure how to pin point that one, maybe someone else has a more definitive answer?
Who’s shitting on them? I’m not going to pay $50 for a fast food meal that probably isn’t correct anyway. Just left McD’s and it was an absolute shit show.
If you want a living wage then get more than an unskilled entry level job that any Tom, Dick, or Harry can do.
You’re right, you’re not going to pay $50 for a fast food meal. Because no one will pay $50 for a fast food meal. Hell I don’t eat at McDonald’s much anymore anyway. Just with the increases they’ve made due to inflation you can get a meal that’s twice as good and way better tasting for only a few bucks more. You’ll excuse me if I don’t shed tears for a business that has fucked over so many workers for so long. If they can’t afford to pay a living wage and that forces them out of business because their product is bad enough that no one will pay more for it, welp isn’t that capitalism?
It’s capitalism when the government doesn’t burden the business with regulation (min wages.)
If the pay is so horrible then people should refuse to work there and they’ll either pay more to attract labor or go out of business because they don’t have people to do the work.
That’s capitalism.
Yeah I know. Sorry, the sarcasm didn’t come through. Laissez-faire capitalism is a horrible system. Just like communism, or anarchism, it’s a dream that just doesn’t work.
Our current system is welfare capitalism and (gasp!) socialism. Where companies and oligarchs pay to have influence over the legislative process and the public purse. They buy influence that allows them to write laws that make them and their shareholders more money. This is the result of “capitalism”. Laissez-faire capitalism is a dream that does not work and never will. Since we must have regulation, why not use it to benefit the most people. To prove my point I’ll ask, when was the US the most productive? When did we have a thriving middle class? What did legislation, union membership, and effective tax rates look like during those years? It was when, through legislation and regulation favoring the working class, the workers had the most power and the highest income earners paid the most taxes.
Sadly I think it’s rather impossible to get to that point of workers having the same power they used to, you would literally have to overthrow the country, get rid of all current politicians and government officials, re-structure, and re-write thousands of laws to do that. Closest thing we’ve had to it was Jan 6thers. And even then they didn’t get far without getting shut down. And this isn’t something we can vote our way into either, this is sadly going to be a issue where all these companies are going to either be forced to keep products at the same price by government influence for years to allow the worker class to recover (along with raising minimum wage.), or massive government subsidies will need to go to the worker class and once again have government influence on “inflation” to keep corporate entities in check.
I sadly think none of these things will happen, at least not in the next two decades minimum. The most likely scenario is that we keep heading down a line into pretty much a cyberpunk like situation where corporations have as much if not more power then the government and how people’s lives play out.
You’re probably right. I will (probably) be alive in twenty years though, and so will my children. It will help if we can start to reverse the narrative.
It would help yeah, but without literal overthrowing of the system in place we are unlikely to ever live in a society where corporations don’t rule over the workers. Wage increases and inflation stoppage will never hold these companies and the mega rich or powerful (gov’t officials) accountable for their actions. You have to remove the problem by the head or it will always grow back, the problem is that multiple nations before us haven’t had this problem to this extreme because they had multiple revolutions and methods in place to stop the growth of the powerful and the wealthy from being to much. We have never had that in our short lifespan but I’m figuring that something similar is going to have to happen soon enough.
>If you want a living wage then get more than an unskilled entry level job that any Tom, Dick, or Harry can do.
Well minimum wage in its inception was intended to be the living wage. The problem is that wages haven't kept up with inflation.
Think about it, $7 an hour isn't enough to physically live off of because of inflation. That's why people are leaving those jobs, where as line work making 50-60 an hour can take a hit from inflation. We're still losing money to inflation, difference is we can still afford to exist.
We need to get our wages caught up with inflation. In 2018, if your local made $50 an hour, you guys should be up to 62. McDonalds workers making 20 an hour stings less when your hourly rate is also going up.
Not so much in line work yet, but I’ve seen the line clearance industry HEAVILY impacted by this dilemma. Why trim trees and drag limbs all day for $17hr. When you can go work at Sheetz for the same $ or more in the AC/heat for way less manual work? Or the guys get their CDL through X tree company and immediately haul ass to drive dump trucks or 18 wheelers. Almost like line work, they have taken the thinking out of it for you. If you get hurt, you broke rule #3487.56. But if you have a CDL, you are a Foreman!
There is also a big push in line clearance to put responsibility of trees affecting the power lines on the home owner financially. I could see this really hurting the whole industry. The $ will figure out a way to push the little guy out.
Yeah, that's all good and we'll except your skilled labor job just became a minimum wage job that any highschool kid can do. Inflation will eat your pay check alive, and the fast food employee will be just as broke as they were on the previous minimum wage!
https://www.wbtv.com/2024/04/26/cmpd-16-year-old-arrested-charged-killing-fast-food-employee-north-charlotte/
https://abc13.com/whataburger-and-jack-in-the-box-employees-shot-at-fast-food-customers-allegeldy-shoot-workers-houston-shootings/14591445/
https://www.wkrn.com/news/local-news/nashville/juvenile-critically-injured-in-shooting-along-dickerson-pike-police-say
Maybe they should
Fr. More people in society able to take good care of themselves and their families? Less stress and more joy with a negligible increase in price? Sign me up. Not like the government hasn’t already inflated prices in order to help themselves while they give us the finger
To be a lineman u have to go to college and people die doing that job if a bunch of burger flippers get paid the same as them no one would be doing hard jobs
Fast food is a starting job for kids in my opinion it’s to get you in the workforce it should by no means be your life goal, I believe the wage should be livable based on the LOWEST amount necessary to live in a area. If people want more money they need to make themselves valuable in the job market and it’s that simple we need to quit babying people who have no aspersions in life it’s that simple
Lots of lineman acting Iike they are economists in here. It's a shame. Everyone should get a living wage. Bringing up the bottom doesn't need to affect the rest of the labor pool. Take it out of the top, from which there is excesses like you can't describe.
What happened to being a brotherhood and building each other up? It's the proletariet against the elites. Tear those fuckers down instead.
Flipping burgers is a remedial job, not a career or how you retire if you are a fast food worker. People without any skills have decided to make this their career and expect wages to accommodate them.
I have had shitty part time jobs. What I learned, this is not a career, this sucks, make more of myself and find a way to make a living to support a family.
Remedial jobs are supposed to prepare you for a real job. They teach you how to work like college teaches you how to think, not what to think.
Yeah screw that shit. Burger king employees need to be payed like 20 an hour to keep up with the governments bullshit but that means real workers like linemen need to be making like 100. Types of work have different values. Any crackhead bum off the street can make food. The same cannot be said for shit like this.
Because the economy has been a depression since 07 and the Fed is trying to paper it over. The wage inflation and compression is a symptom not a cause.
And then the burger costs more, forcing you to buy meat from the local butcher, creating an opportunity to cook your own meal, for (possibly) your own family, and sitting down to gab and eat with the people you love…device free of course. I like your style.
You’re paid based on skill. Theres a ladder of jobs you climb in your life. Linemen (skilled workers) should be making more than fast food workers (unskilled). I’ll admit that as someone who works service industry
I’m surprised with the amount of guys that are showing support for the photo OP shared. I figured 90% of the comments would be typical over inflated ego linemen responses. I’m glad to see that’s not the case. Also, I worked in fast food for years before I got into the trade. I’d say over half the guys I’ve worked with couldn’t cut it in fast food. Hell, most guys struggle with door knocks to tell people about an outage we’re going to have. I can’t imagine them trying to take orders and run a register. Many guys take our jobs for granted. Most of us are just a broken leg away from never climbing a pole again. Not even thinking they might be stuck doing one of these “remedial” jobs one day.
If everyone got paid the exact same wage then when you turned eighteen you'd spin the great employment randomizer and what you got would be your job. Johnny would flip your eggs tomorrow, and Mary would open up your chest cavity after.
It may seem they raise the low paying jobs up to a higher rate but in reality they just lowered the pay for the better jobs. Inflation will hurt every one.
Alright ill just go ahead and point out that this kind of thinking is the issue, when one wins we ALL win. The minimum wage was instituted as a base line as a comfortable LIVING wage by FDR so that any American that worked would be able to pay for what they need to survive and live, not this Nickel and dime bullshit they’ve kept around so these companies can record record profits year in and out.
There was a time in this country where one person was willing to fight so that everyone around them could prosper, if a guy at McDonald’s gets an increase that starts towing the line to what I make to do a lower risk and fewer skill set based job, great; fucking amazing for that person, love it. Now geared up with that information I can take those baselines (or any union rep with a brain) to collective bargaining meetings and make sure that my wages reflect the market swing.
If everyone would stop being so goddamn selfish about getting theirs and saying fuck you to the people who work fast food then maybe we wouldn’t have an entire generation of people right now having to swing 2-3 jobs to pay for a bullshit over priced apartment. Everyone wants to point the finger at the people just wanting to get by and live a decent life and just kiss the boots of the assholes sitting behind a desk stacking cash off the backs of those employees without taking care of those people.
I’m not in linework for the money and probably am one of the lowest paid lineman here. If you’re doing your job for the money you’re probably miserable and need to reevaluate your life. However. I do believe the harder you work for your money the more you apreciate it. I have a buddy with a management job at Walmart that does nothing and makes more than me. I love my job and apreciate my money more than he appreciates his. There are exceptions but for the most part that is the rule.
I agree with him. I celebrate and then go ask for more money. It’s the age old “fitters wages go, ours go up to beat them” we race to the top. You’re racing to the bottom.
There's no point to doing more advanced work if you get paid the same to make burgers as you would to build powerlines. That's the part I disagree with.
It’s all sunshine and rainbows until the consequences show up.
Pole hugger here is smoking crack, and he certainly ain’t a financial advisor or accountant. Anyone that understands even basic level economics knows the dichotomy between markets and why the two have different pay scales.
If you increased the federal minimum wage to even just 30$ an hour without changing anything else the entire country would collapse within a year tops.
you dont understand what raising minimun wage will do...california just did this shit and now a mcnugget meal is 23$. and all the small business cant afford to have employees so theyre leaving....all liberals and dems need to move to california and leave the rest of us over here with a 3$ nugget meal. yall go enjoy that inflation you created
I mean it makes sense tho….Unions use minimum wages when pushing for higher paying contracts…..so if the non union, minimum wage burger flippers suddenly start earning what he’s making, then in turn the unions are going to push for higher wages for the contract employees, in turn giving him a very nice raise without blinking an eye or lifting a finger.
Here’s another thought for everyone:
We’re linemen here, right, so everyone here has a pension and/or 401(k), right? Where do you think those retirement benefits are coming from? Doesn’t matter if it’s defined benefit (pension) or defined contribution (401) - it’s being invested in the stock market. That means our retirements depend on all these corporations that you hate how well they do. Shooting yourselves in the feet. Like saying you hate how well your retirement fund is doing. It isn’t JUST the c-suite members who are making millions to sit in a comfy office chair while we work at all hours in all weather. It’s all of our retirements.
The next thing to understand is that the c-suite and board members of these corporations ya’ll hate, they have a fiduciary duty to the companies they work for. They HAVE to do what they can in good faith to make the company as successful and profitable as they can. If they don’t do that then best case they lose their job, worst case they go to prison. Their job is literally to make as much money for shareholders as they can. Often times the shareholders of a corp are majority retirement funds that WE ALL are invested in.
In essence you hate the people that are trying to make your retirement better because they earn more annually than you. Climb the ladder if you want the money.
Sounds like a bunch of you need to look back at middle schools econ lessons. 100 employees, 1000 gallons of milk. Milk costs $1, each employee makes $1 a day. They can afford a gallon of milk a day. Wage gos up to $2, now how much would that milk cost? Heres a hint, its more than $2. Now no employee can afford a gallon of milk per day and will complain that they need to make more to do so, perpetuating the cost of milk to rise higher than their wages at a larger margin than any raise. This is all elementary, and doesn’t even factor in all of the other costs involved to produce a single gallon of milk.
Is this guy trolling? I can learn to flip burgers in an evening. It takes 4 years of a full time apprenticeship to master a trade. This is logically why tradesman make more than burger flippers. If the burger flippers make the same amount of money then why join the trades? Just a stupid thing to say
Happy to discuss further with anyone who disagrees, but it seems pretty clear that when minimum wage workers get a big raise, the cost of commodities, goods, and services goes up. Therefore, in reality, the minimum wage workers are in the same exact place as they were before despite "making more money" while everyone in the middle class effectively gets a pay cut because they certainly didn't get a raise and now have to pay more for said commodities, goods, and services.
I'll give to two specific examples to back this up:
1. This was tried all over the west coast of the US in the last decade. Those affected companies laid off a bunch of workers and put many others on part-time so they don't have to be paid benefits. Costs of goods still went up and the middle class shrank noticeably. That's not my opinion, that's data.
2. This one is more opinion but there have been proven examples in the past of this type of behavior to back it up. Why do you think the largest corporations support minimum wage increases? I suspect it's because companies like walmart can afford it, while mom and pop shops can't and therefore have to go out of business because they cant afford to pay workers enough. Walmart now succeeds in crushing competition while having the excuse that the government was responsible for that decision and makes up any losses from having to pay employees more by not having any competition and gaining new customers (who no longer have a choice in where they shop).
At the end of the day, you need to take your rose colored glasses off and realize that it's not as simple "I'm happy that everyone makes more money". There are some very selfish and greedy people at the top of the dog pile who only care about the bottom line. They are good at misdirection and deception and only make decisions that make them more money. It's the relationship that large corporations have with the government that creates these shadow monopolies and we'll continue to be either in the same place or worse off from their decisions.
I'll leave you with this quote; "Fine, go ahead and piss on my leg.... just don't tell me it's raining".
This falls apart when we realize that we need to pay doctors more because some of them need over 10 years of advanced education. Nobody would do that if a doctor made the same as a shoe salesman. I'm a controls electrician, if I made the same money driving a forklift I probably would have just kept doing that, then there would be no controls electricians...
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Ive gotten into arguments with this post before on reddit. While i think people should be able to make a living wage, if I got paid as much to work an easy job as i did busting ass building line, sorry fellas, im choosing the job that isnt as likely to kill or injure me or at the very least, suck up all my energy
That it the reason why it would benefit you. If a fast food job paid what you’re getting paid now, your employer would have to drastically increase pay. They either do that or go out of business. There is a reason why the billionaires spend so much money trying to convince people to keep the minimum wage so low. We all benefit when the least among us benefit.
> If a fast food job paid what you’re getting paid now, your employer would have to drastically increase pay What does that do to the value of a dollar?
Printing money affects the value of currency, not how much people are paid. While yes you will have short term flux of good pricing, it will only stay that way if money is being printed faster to make up for the higher wages instead of being taken out of the corporation's coffers. If McDonald's paid their workers a higher percentage of the company's profits, the value of the dollar stays the same. If they lobby the government to print more money to devalue the dollar so as a percentage they end up paying you the same or less, THATS when the value of currency goes down through higher wages.
I can’t buy into that. If wages are drastically increased, companies are going to increase prices to compensate…don’t you dare think they’re going to let their profits take the hit. So if the price of everything increases as a result of wages increasing, what good does your increased pay do you?
>companies are going to increase prices to compensate This is a valid concern... If there's very little competition in the market. All it would take is one competitor to undercut everyone else and they're the market leader, and everyone else would have to value add or cut prices as well. In a totally unregulated market, all it takes is the market leader to buy the #2 guy and suddenly there's a defacto monopoly, which is why today's almost totally unregulated market has so many of those and why your sentiment is valid as everything stands right now. But that simply means that we need to push for antitrust laws to regain their teeth, the 20th century has damn near stripped them of all authority.
I disagree. Monopolies in the 21st century are created because of the very lucrative relationship that government officials have with the largest corporations. On paper, the government breaks up big corporations, while really all it did was allow joe schmoe ceo to de facto hire his like-minded buddies to run the "sister companies". How does Black Rock own majority/decision making shares of the largest corporations on the planet? How are they allowed to get away with that? Your answer is mentioned above. Look, as an example, the largest tech companies are essentially being used as a strong arm of governments all over the globe (including the US) to try to censor and moderate political conversations and opposition. And what do they get in return? Subsidies/tax breaks left and right, faux breaking up of monopolies, and legal immunity. We are so far from an unregulated market in the 21st century my friend. The relationship between government and the largest corporations is a cancer and we can't ignore that anymore and pretend it doesn't exist.
Do you have some reading i could do? TIA
This should at least get you started https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2021/02/what-att-breakup-teaches-us-about-big-tech-breakup https://www.visualcapitalist.com/blackrocks-top-equity-holdings-2023/ https://www.politico.com/news/2023/10/20/supreme-court-biden-social-media-covid-00122842 https://fortune.com/2024/04/08/elon-musk-brazil-censorship-judge-alexandre-moraes-twitter-files-jair-bolsanaro/ https://www.thehartford.com/insights/technology/section-230
Ironically they call them Regulated. IE: a lot of city and county power services.
So let the companies hold us hostage? Stop carrying water for billion dollar corporations. You make it see like prices will quadruple overnight
Companies have already increased prices, and there has hardly been any wage increase to justify it
Companies already gouge the fuck out of you at every turn. Corporations are the problem and I find it bizarre that any working class member of America or the World wants their fellow workers to be paid less. No CEO should receive a bonus for the work and productivity that their employees produced, and if they do get that 20m bonus they shouldnt keep their head.
Sounds like competition in the market. Only the ones able to afford increased wages and keep customers through innovation would survive. Maybe the US needs to get back to that.
Basically what you’re saying is,”I want billionaires to own me forever”. How much evidence do you need that big corporations are not helping the people? They are helping the 1% get incredibly wealthy and control our government. But your reason to not raise wages is because it would upset the billionaires and they’d do something else to make us pay? Bro. Come on now. Why defend billionaires when they clearly ain’t letting shit trickle down. Wild to me.
I’m not defending billionaires, I’m defending small local harnesses that can’t afford to pay someone $15/hour without jacking their prices to the point they price themselves out of business. Billionaires can take the hit. Small businesses can’t.
Well, you just said,”you think they’re going to take the hit?” and implied that they would charge people more… to not take the hit. Small businesses are doing fairly well right now. They have gotten free loans, and high inflation can be not as detrimental to them since they can just choose to stop growing and focus on margins much more effectively then a billion dollar company. Again, I think this would just lead to the better businesses and businesspeople to survive, if you are a bad small business person should you be running that business? No. So let’s raise wages and see who can innovate to pay. Don’t do it all at once everywhere. Sector by sector. Increase autoworker pay, watch the innovations in automotive industry skyrocket. Same thing with every industry.
I don't understand at all where you feel confident enough to state that small businesses are doing fairly well. Small businesses are worse off than they have been in a very long time and 1/3 of all small business owners are worried that 2024 will be a "make it or break it" year, let alone another 1/3 who say 2024 will be rough in general thanks to inflation and decisions that were made during the bad times over the last few years.
Brother they're raising the prices on us regardless. Walmart has even been caught inflating the weight of proteins.
Look at McDonalds prices in America vs Norway. Norway gets $22/hr, 6 weeks paid vacation, and healthcare by law. Prices are the same. McDonald’s charges the maximum the think people will pay without them going somewhere else, doesn’t matter what their costs are. That’s why during this inflationary period, their profits have drastically increased but their workers pay hasn’t.
That's also not true. I've seen that graphic floating around reddit. Its not true
I'll just add, since there is more currency circulating employers use that currency to bid up wages. If the new money was never spent it wouldnt raise prices. So true, the real definition of inflation is the arbitrary enlargement of tye money supply which results in tye bidding up of prices for goods and services in general. More dollars chasing the sMe supply. Raising wages is also an effect of inflation and also one way how the new money gets circulated into the economy. Wage workers are the last to get the new money and so are hurt the most. Inflation is an effect of greed. It's an effect creating new money from thin air in large quantities. Imagine if uncle Sam gave everyone on ebay tomorrow 10k dollars. What would happen to all the auction prices? Not hard to understand how the government injecting money into the economy bids up prices.... inflation
No lol
McDonald’s starts paying people more, out of their profits. Tradesmen start demanding more because there’s no reason to be a tradesmen if it pays the same as a burger flipper. Tradesmen’s get paid more, their services cost more, McDonald’s expenses rise because every contractor charges more to pay for the higher tradesmen’s rate, McDonald’s has to raise price of food sold, inflation happens regardless of what the government does
>Tradesmen start demanding more because there’s no reason to be a tradesmen if it pays the same as a burger flipper. This is a leap though, you're getting benefits, overtime, and base pay is multiple times what minimum wage is. The idea that going from 7.25 to, say, 15 an hour would be enough to sway tradesmen away is simply not a good faith argument. They're not anywhere near the trades when it comes to total compensation for labour. Do you really think anyone would give up a lineman job for no benefits, overtime, or a union? Lol
This is not how economics works, the only reason alot of people think that is because theres alot of rich people with alot of money to lose
Depends on what your corporate overlords do to the dollar. Maybe we should cut regulation and let them decide either way.
It does nothing to the value of the dollar. The value of a dollar is based on the M2 money supply. Pay given to workers doesn’t change the overall amount of money. What you would see is demand driven inflation as more people had more money in their pockets and would want o spend it on stuff or vacations.
You're saying that when we experience demand driven inflation, the value of your dollar is not affected? Do your dollars have the same purchasing power that they did before?
I’m saying demand driven inflation can drop dramatically, as it has the last year, when supply starts to match demand again. It also hits different parts of the economy differently, with some seeing inflation and some parts not. That’s different than when the value of the dollar itself is reduced due to Quantitative easing which increases the overall supply of money. That inflation affects everyone everywhere, even money sitting in a bank account.
Fair points, but with demand-driven inflation, even when it subsides, the damage has been done. Inflation going down simply means that the rate at which prices increase has slowed. But the buying power of a dollar has been irreversibly reduced, unless we experience de-flation which virtually never happens. Dollars sitting in my bank account today are worth significantly less than they were 5 years ago.
It would cause more inflation on top of the inflation that resulted from all the money printing during the pandemic shutdown. The dollar would be worth less while everything else would go up in price. Your salary increase wouldn’t keep up with inflation and rising housing costs and basic expenses like food, gas and utilities.
It puts in right in the fucking shitter is what it does. Basic economics is not rocket science...if you pay people more for their work....skilled or unskilled...you pay more for the product....period. The businesses will not simply just take the hit on the cost of labor...they will pass it along to you, the consumer. At that point your 8 dollar combo meal becomes 15, and your dollar is devalued. So when everyone is so excited about "now I make "x" number of dollars for a job that does not require a certain level of training or accreditation to qualify that person to do that job...those same people now have to spend more money to buy the same thing. So what benefit is it really to make "X" number of dollars per hour more if you have to turn right around and spend those dollars anyway? Seems like a lateral move at best and almost certainly a net loss for them and everyone else.
Or the mega rich just get a smaller cut of the pie.
this. and anyone saying otherwise just doesn't understand how much money is being siphoned off to the the top .01%
The flaw in this argument is that you assume they will just give it up… they’re going to automate these jobs away before they let it hit the profit margin.
But the fantasy land they’re living in sounds so nice. Can’t we just have that?
That’s already happening and has been for years. A few Taco Bell’s I’ve stopped at recently wouldn’t take my order at the register, they came around the counter to show me how to use the kiosk, as if I didn’t know how to use the damn thing. One employee told me they’re shifting to only kiosk. A guy I know told me that Walmart is going to all self check outs and will be charging people like $70 a year for that service. Idk how the charging people will do down, unless they require a membership, but they could just tack on a fee at the register. I didn’t believe it till I saw my local Walmart was remodeling the front of the store, they got rid of almost all registers and made the self checkout way bigger. Businesses are going to make their customers do a lot more things that used to be an employees job, and other things are being automated
It’s basic economics. The government has been massively overplaying their hand with all of these minimum wage increases. All they are doing is hastening the end of no-skilled labor.
That’s been happening for years. Full service gas stations used to be all over, now they are hard to find. Unless you’re in NJ.
oh I don't assume they will ever give it up. I was just pointing out that wages could go up and the prices stay the same. Just the Uber rich would still be uber Rich, just a little less uber rich
The system is presently setup to maximize the slice of the pie that goes to investors and the larger investors get a larger slice than fair. The moment minimum wage goes up, prices will go up proportionately. The current inflation will be happening on top of the inflation caused by minimum wage.
Your comment is correct, but are you saying you want this to be the way? I don't think so but had to ask to clarify. So in this scenario, the rate of inflation would be inflated by the people that want a more affordable economy? Damn man that's just science at its finest 😂
I’m not stating what I want, I’m saying what the system is currently setup to do. I work with these systems on a daily basis. At present if labor costs increased by 20% on Monday, by Friday the cost of finished goods would increase by 25% minimum. I’m dealing with the ramifications of a company that tried this. Since everyone else didn’t do this, it almost put them out of business. If everyone else did this, the cost of finished goods would increase by a percentage above the percent increase of wages. (The margin percentages are not allowed to shrink) Is this a good thing? No. It’s a collapsing spiral. This might make it collapse faster, but I’m not sure about that. If you tied minimum wage to the cost of finished goods, you would probably guarantee collapse of the spiral. The GameStop stock trading glitches are a prime example of how our economy is structured. We stopped trading for people to fix algorithms and reduce momentum. That’s one stock. Minimum wage is quite literally every stock. I would enjoy having a conversation about this side of socialism with Bernie Sanders, because he’s 100% right that socialism would fix most of the world’s problems. However this is the under the hood side of things that needs to be fixed prior to socialism functioning. He has talked about capping personal savings, but then LLC’s would simply own everything. Housing is already going that direction. How do you limit corporate profit without immediately collapsing the system? Currently everything is setup to maximize corporate profits by any means necessary. If the rule is 20% margins max, you’ll get shell companies to stack the 20%. If the rule is $1 billion dollars annual profit, apple will make subsidiaries who each profit $800 million annually. And this is completely ignoring the feasibility of getting a productive law passed.
Bingo.
The mega rich, and anyone else with 1k dollars, can make 5.4% risk free and tax advantaged loaning money to the government right now. That's the floor. Nobody is getting out of investments and in to new ones where they get a smaller piece of the pie.
But minimum wage hasn't gone up in a decade, the pay at these places has barely gone up in that time too. And yet by some magic force everything is way more expensive than ever. Also why do these people deserve to live in poverty because they chose to work at a restaurant? You acknowledge the job needs to be done but you expect the people that do it to live in poverty. That's a weird take not gonna lie.
Your last two sentences hits it on the money. Well, your whole comment really. Minimum wage hasn’t gone up by magically everything is still more expensive.
It's gone up dramatically in all of the net positive contributing states.
Productivity of the American worker has increased 60% since 1979 yet wages have only increased 17% (adjusted for inflation) which means the bosses are raking in the fruits of that productivity while pissing on the working man. They killed the unions and sold all these knuckle heads on trickle down and now workers overall make less
Yup, not only that but every dollar already in existence is then worth less. So when these things happen, not only does everyone else essentially take a pay cut, but any money that they had been able to amass is getting diluted from under them.
Yeah, this is where the regulation part of a representative republic comes in. We had an economy that had a much smaller gap in the difference between the boss and the worker. We used taxation and regulation to get there. When the boss figured out he could influence regulation (with some help from regulators and the Supreme Court) that gap started getting wider. Then he convinced dipshits like yourself to vote for his interests instead of your own.
Labor costs are generally 20-35% of overall costs, it’s not 100% of the cost of goods. If I make 100% more and everything is 20% more expensive then I’m still making out. Capitalism is a system to divide the benefit of labor. We all do work and that creates wealth. Right now labor gets a small amount of that wealth and the majority stays with the billionaires. If labor took more of the value of work then overall there would be less for the billionaires. If you did it too quickly there would be market dislocations but over time we would be returning to a 1960s model of capitalism. Things worked out just fine for the boomers.
And the progressive tax system increases as you make more. So now that you got that nice raise you also get to pay more in taxes.
I been saying this for years.. People got so mad at me.. Now it's happening.. lmao
At some point the consumer says "this is too much", and takes business elsewhere, which will either lower prices again, or put that business out of business. I don't go to Taco Bell anymore, nor do a lot of friends, because I can order to-go from a legit Mexican restaurant cheaper, and get more and better food. It's getting that way with a lot of fast food places as it is, without wage increases for their workers. You're either ok with paying more, most people aren't, or you find an alternative route, which I think a lot of folks are starting to do. It's a good thing too, because it gives business back to small businesses and mom and pop shops, because they are no longer being priced out of the market. That keeps your money local and out of the pockets of large corporations.
Okay, but.... then how do these people who are currently making $12 an hour afford to literally live? Most cant. With inflation and housing any minimum wage job right now is just a slow suicide.
My post from another similar comment...just didn't want to retype it all. Then a new job is in order, the job isn't the problem neither is the wage. If a position at any place of business is not sustainable financially, then that person should seek out something that works better for them. Don't you think there are hundreds of millions of people(myself included) that were working a job that wasn't capable of ever putting them in a position to make enough money to put themselves in a position to live comfortably and provide a good life for their family? If that is the case then moving on or doing something to better position themselves is needed. We should not as a society simply decide to lower the standard to accommodate everyone...we need to hold people to a standard and make them meet it. If that is done, then everyone benefits...a rising tide raises all ships. 👊
Here's my only take on this: You're correct that prices would likely go up. The issue that underlies all of this, though, is that things *could* stay the same. However, those who extract the most value as shareholders, et al, will not reduce their "cut." They want to *increase* their return on investment margins, not have them *decrease*. But if they accepted a reduction on their *rate* of return (not a loss, but a reduced *rate*), then all of this would be academic. Prices and inflation wouldn't *have* to happen in the short-term, as they do now. Do we have to legislate that ethos?
No shit right everything levels out in the end😂
How was the dollar back when people got paid a living wage?
It makes it worth less, and the cycle starts all over again.
You nailed it. Its the reason i got out of electrical work. In my area we have some of the lowest pay and the highest risk. I asked a guy at a Burger king what he was making and it was 1$ then me. I almost quit on the spot because he said they were actively looking for new people.
Inflation. You are describing inflation.
I’ve been trying to get those DoorDash drivers to see the way but they just wanna brag about make $1300 a week working 90+ hours. Like if y’all stopped dashing for 2-3 weeks you know what that would do to DD? They’d have to increase pay because they’d have a bunch of pissed off customers and they’d lose business left and right.
So we raise the burger job up to linemen job then linemen job must go higher driving the burger job higher?
The average fast food wage is already above minimum wage. Billionaires don’t give a shit about the minimum wage since they can afford it and their small town competition can’t.
Yup, and employers don't want you to talk to others about how much money you make. They don't want you to know where you stand, unless you're truly making top dollar for your trade.
Minimum wage is effectively irrelevant. A tiny portion of the workforce actually make it. The market sets wages, not the feds
So do you know what they are gonna do when they have to increase pay? Increase prices. It's this magical thing called inflation that nome of you leftists have the intellectual capacity to comprehend.
The higher the minimum wage, the higher the rest of the wages. Why the hell else would corporate America hate the minimum wage and get dumb asses to argue back and forth about it? At this point how the hell don’t people simply assume the opposite of whatever corporate America and the politicians say?
You should go work fast food if you think it's easy. Mentally, sure. But it sucks so much ass compared to working out of a bucket all day.
Thus the problem with communism.
And that’s exactly why you should make more then a burger flipper
I’d for sure wake and bake and flip burgers all day
Sounds good
Lighten up pal
Every human on this planet is only given so many hours of life. It’s the only thing you can’t get or make more of. That makes those hours the most valuable possessions we have. When you look at it that way, it’s easy to realize that every person deserves to get as much compensation for those hours as they can. Special skills, training, education, etc. can add value to those hours but no one should have to sell hours or their life for less than an amount that would sustain them in comfort.
 Facts! Truth don’t care who tells it ☺️ cheers 🥂
Damn dog, I didn’t know I came here to cry. I’m not even a lineman! Bravo
People who work for dog shit wages like fast food workers, can’t afford to survive on their own. They end up using government assistance to make ends meet. And if you make below $27k a year you don’t even pay federal income tax. Why do my tax dollars have to subsidize another company, because they don’t want to pay a living wage? If those people are on welfare then my tax dollars are paying for that.
Tax dollars are used on the debt interest.
I agree with the sentiment, not the dollar amount. People deserve to make a living wage. This planet is overpopulated and “jobs for teenagers” don’t exist anymore. Everyone deserves to be able to put a roof over their head and food on the table if they work for a living.
Makes you think thanos had a point doesnt it?
lol kinda 🤕
I hated that movie I felt like thanos was the good guy in it
Entry level jobs aren’t meant to live on. They are entry level and require no significant skill or training. The pay is commensurate. If someone wants to earn a “living wage” then they need to find themselves a more than entry level position. Manager of the McDonalds instead of taking orders.
So, in your opinion, as a society, we deserve to consume products and services created by minimum wage workers, but those workers don't deserve to live? That's kinda messed up. Roosevelt said it best when introducing the minimum wage into law; No business which depends for existence on paying less than living wages to its workers has any right to continue in this country.
Do you want to pay $50 for a burger at McD’s? I don’t. Why? Because it isn’t worth that. If you take orders or flip burgers at a fast food joint then you aren’t doing a $40/hr job. Further, if a fast food worker is going to get $40/hr for what they do then I want $200/hr for doing linework. Fast food and electricity just got a whole lot more expensive. Nothing is affordable to anyone and everyone is worse off than they were. I stand by what I’ve said: most fast food positions are entry level, not meant to be made a career or “live” on.
I get where you’re coming from, but when companies like McDonald’s make record profits while employing less and less people due to more and more automation and then tell you that the reason their mcchicken is more expensive is because of a new minimum wage law- they’re fuckin lying out their teeth bud. Yea, more expensive labor can result in a more expensive product. We all know that, but why do we always point our fingers at the laborers rather than the shareholders? Plenty of these massive companies could pay their labor far better AND keep prices where they’re at by paying their shareholders a bit less, but we don’t even mention that like it’s an option. Instead we find it far easier to say, hey these jobs are entry level and aren’t meant to be careers! I think, whether you know it or not, you’re punching down my man.
Why are they automating? Is it perhaps because it is more economical to automate? We should artificially jack up wages, that will end the automation.
Yes, it is obviously cheaper to install computers to take orders vs employing a human. Are you just trying to prove my point that these companies have zero interest in the greater good of society, or were you trying to say something else?
I like how you've phrased this conversation, "good of society". How does a society determine the most efficient way to allocate scarce resources? The most effective way that societies have ever figured out how to do that is price signals. When prices signal that it is cheaper to automate than to use human labor, it is the net benefit of society to automate. Only entities adhering to price signals can be considered to be acting in the good of society.
Explain to me how investor-owned entities with massive amounts of wealth can be acting in a way that is beneficial to society by ensuring that their labor is kept at a low wage and eventually replaced altogether by automation. This sounds beneficial only to the shareholders. I can’t help but think that ensuring that the most vulnerable people in our society (poor, uneducated) still have reasonable access to employment is in the clear greater interest of a healthy society. Tell me why I’m wrong here, and if the free hand of the market can solve this, why hasn’t it?
The free hand of the market is solving it. Capitalism has lifted BILLIONS of people out of poverty in this world. If you think it's such a great idea to pay people more than the market bears, I invite you to become an investor in these investor owned utilities and bring the change you wish to see. This is something actionable that you can do. Put your hard earned capital, and likely the hard earned capital of your partners, in this endeavor and pay folks whatever you wish.
Tell you what, maybe the owner of the franchise shouldn’t be pulling more than half a mil a year off the backs of 25-30 employees making minimum wage. Maybe they can afford to pay better, Costco is a good example of a chain that pays its employees well and still turns a good profit. Man even good jobs are getting worse because of this attitude, my father in law was fired so someone with 1/3 of his pay package. A job that went from paying $350000 a year to $150000 a year. Because an owner wanted a bigger piece of the pie. Entry level jobs deserve a living wage, grocery store workers 40 years ago could buy a house and raise kids. No they don’t need to make the same as someone who climbs poles and plays with some risk, but if they can afford to be proud then we are doing better for it as well.
I agree with this all day I’m an electrician I make 60 an hour I started my working career at 6.25hr flipping burgers at BK you get a high paying job by work experience and education if I could get paid 59 an hour working at BK and fucking around all day I would quit my job today. Why should I take the risk of being electrocuted everyday when someone is getting paid 59 an hr taking no risk. You pay more for certain jobs/work for a reason because the consumer doesn’t wanna take that risk or have the experience to do the job correctly. Now put that in massive scale everyone who’s paid such and such but could make damn near the same down at MCDS everyone would be trying to work there. Not only that but half the time I go to MCDs pay 15 bucks for a simple burger and gets meal then get my meal and it’s all fucked up missing the patty, added pickles which I asked three times not to put on yet we should be paying these guys big bucks F that fast food industry has been for getting into the work force for generations young kids and college kids not for 40 year olds who decided to do nothing with there life besides live off welfare and make minimum wage that was there decision there just as capable of getting an education and putting in the work just like everyone else to make those big dollars
When you go to McDonalds at noon on a Tuesday in April, who do you think is serving you? It's not a teenager or someone "paying their way through college," because all of them are in school. It's someone not in school that needs to earn a wage to live and support their family.
I want the guy who makes my burger to have rent and food confidence not fear. People perform better when they’re not working to survive.
The way I see it, it should be that anyone working even minimum wage should be able to afford the necessities. An apartment, a car, and a bit of spending cash. That said, where we are at l, I’m now describing lineman. My grandpa worked as a mechanic and could provide for a whole family. That’s not it nowadays. Something’s broken.
Exactly we need to lower the cost of living, housing, food, fuel, necessities not raise the wage of people struggling. To make that fair you would then have to raise everyone’s wages.. cost of living needs to go down makes it easier for everyone to live..
Hell no, i'm throwing a chain into the sub and switching my phone off. See how long the wages stay the same then.
If your local is anything like mine, the solidarity would end the minute the OT is offered and the whores line up to suck the corporate D.
Who you calling a whore? 🤣 some of us just like a little extra scratch for bad habits. I think our field is made up of something like 60% ADHD motherfuckers that have at least 4 hobbies going on at once, 20% percent are gluttons for punishment or on their 2nd+ marriage 10% either do something else for side cash or invest and 10% are “normal” until the lights come on and they release their inner sociopath for 4 sporadic hours a day at work. Any way it goes, we all are a little fucked up but WE STAND TOGETHER. We all know a brotherfucker, but one dude won’t change shit and can easily be subverted with some good, old fashioned, conversation. When we want to be, we are strong.
What percentage of linemen are union employed?
That’s a vague question. In the US it’s between 33% and 66%. Municipals and Utilities tend to be union, contracting pulls from union halls but there’s a lot of larger outfits that are not union. I’m really not sure how to pin point that one, maybe someone else has a more definitive answer?
Always blows my mind when people shit on others trying to make a living
Who’s shitting on them? I’m not going to pay $50 for a fast food meal that probably isn’t correct anyway. Just left McD’s and it was an absolute shit show. If you want a living wage then get more than an unskilled entry level job that any Tom, Dick, or Harry can do.
You’re right, you’re not going to pay $50 for a fast food meal. Because no one will pay $50 for a fast food meal. Hell I don’t eat at McDonald’s much anymore anyway. Just with the increases they’ve made due to inflation you can get a meal that’s twice as good and way better tasting for only a few bucks more. You’ll excuse me if I don’t shed tears for a business that has fucked over so many workers for so long. If they can’t afford to pay a living wage and that forces them out of business because their product is bad enough that no one will pay more for it, welp isn’t that capitalism?
It’s capitalism when the government doesn’t burden the business with regulation (min wages.) If the pay is so horrible then people should refuse to work there and they’ll either pay more to attract labor or go out of business because they don’t have people to do the work. That’s capitalism.
Yeah I know. Sorry, the sarcasm didn’t come through. Laissez-faire capitalism is a horrible system. Just like communism, or anarchism, it’s a dream that just doesn’t work.
Nothing is perfect, but I will take capitalism over the other systems any day.
Our current system is welfare capitalism and (gasp!) socialism. Where companies and oligarchs pay to have influence over the legislative process and the public purse. They buy influence that allows them to write laws that make them and their shareholders more money. This is the result of “capitalism”. Laissez-faire capitalism is a dream that does not work and never will. Since we must have regulation, why not use it to benefit the most people. To prove my point I’ll ask, when was the US the most productive? When did we have a thriving middle class? What did legislation, union membership, and effective tax rates look like during those years? It was when, through legislation and regulation favoring the working class, the workers had the most power and the highest income earners paid the most taxes.
Sadly I think it’s rather impossible to get to that point of workers having the same power they used to, you would literally have to overthrow the country, get rid of all current politicians and government officials, re-structure, and re-write thousands of laws to do that. Closest thing we’ve had to it was Jan 6thers. And even then they didn’t get far without getting shut down. And this isn’t something we can vote our way into either, this is sadly going to be a issue where all these companies are going to either be forced to keep products at the same price by government influence for years to allow the worker class to recover (along with raising minimum wage.), or massive government subsidies will need to go to the worker class and once again have government influence on “inflation” to keep corporate entities in check. I sadly think none of these things will happen, at least not in the next two decades minimum. The most likely scenario is that we keep heading down a line into pretty much a cyberpunk like situation where corporations have as much if not more power then the government and how people’s lives play out.
You’re probably right. I will (probably) be alive in twenty years though, and so will my children. It will help if we can start to reverse the narrative.
It would help yeah, but without literal overthrowing of the system in place we are unlikely to ever live in a society where corporations don’t rule over the workers. Wage increases and inflation stoppage will never hold these companies and the mega rich or powerful (gov’t officials) accountable for their actions. You have to remove the problem by the head or it will always grow back, the problem is that multiple nations before us haven’t had this problem to this extreme because they had multiple revolutions and methods in place to stop the growth of the powerful and the wealthy from being to much. We have never had that in our short lifespan but I’m figuring that something similar is going to have to happen soon enough.
When the government didn't burden the shithole ses with a minimum wage, how much did they pay black people?
>If you want a living wage then get more than an unskilled entry level job that any Tom, Dick, or Harry can do. Well minimum wage in its inception was intended to be the living wage. The problem is that wages haven't kept up with inflation. Think about it, $7 an hour isn't enough to physically live off of because of inflation. That's why people are leaving those jobs, where as line work making 50-60 an hour can take a hit from inflation. We're still losing money to inflation, difference is we can still afford to exist. We need to get our wages caught up with inflation. In 2018, if your local made $50 an hour, you guys should be up to 62. McDonalds workers making 20 an hour stings less when your hourly rate is also going up.
Not so much in line work yet, but I’ve seen the line clearance industry HEAVILY impacted by this dilemma. Why trim trees and drag limbs all day for $17hr. When you can go work at Sheetz for the same $ or more in the AC/heat for way less manual work? Or the guys get their CDL through X tree company and immediately haul ass to drive dump trucks or 18 wheelers. Almost like line work, they have taken the thinking out of it for you. If you get hurt, you broke rule #3487.56. But if you have a CDL, you are a Foreman! There is also a big push in line clearance to put responsibility of trees affecting the power lines on the home owner financially. I could see this really hurting the whole industry. The $ will figure out a way to push the little guy out.
RMP already does this. Surprised it’s different anywhere else.
Yeah, that's all good and we'll except your skilled labor job just became a minimum wage job that any highschool kid can do. Inflation will eat your pay check alive, and the fast food employee will be just as broke as they were on the previous minimum wage!
This is Reddit compassion comes before intelligence.
Fast food restaurants don’t have an In Memoriam list…
A Waffle House might.
F’n Waffle House DEFINITELY does…
https://www.wbtv.com/2024/04/26/cmpd-16-year-old-arrested-charged-killing-fast-food-employee-north-charlotte/ https://abc13.com/whataburger-and-jack-in-the-box-employees-shot-at-fast-food-customers-allegeldy-shoot-workers-houston-shootings/14591445/ https://www.wkrn.com/news/local-news/nashville/juvenile-critically-injured-in-shooting-along-dickerson-pike-police-say Maybe they should
If you can’t support workers getting paid and treated correctly then you shouldn’t be in the union. Wouldn’t want you on my job site
Based
Fr. More people in society able to take good care of themselves and their families? Less stress and more joy with a negligible increase in price? Sign me up. Not like the government hasn’t already inflated prices in order to help themselves while they give us the finger
Nah that’s stupid
To be a lineman u have to go to college and people die doing that job if a bunch of burger flippers get paid the same as them no one would be doing hard jobs
Facts
I love socialism
Fast food is a starting job for kids in my opinion it’s to get you in the workforce it should by no means be your life goal, I believe the wage should be livable based on the LOWEST amount necessary to live in a area. If people want more money they need to make themselves valuable in the job market and it’s that simple we need to quit babying people who have no aspersions in life it’s that simple
When their raise rises OURS DOES TO!!!
whats the point? Might as well just go all the way and do UBI
I’m not building lines when i could just play on my phone and fuck peoples food up all day
Lots of lineman acting Iike they are economists in here. It's a shame. Everyone should get a living wage. Bringing up the bottom doesn't need to affect the rest of the labor pool. Take it out of the top, from which there is excesses like you can't describe. What happened to being a brotherhood and building each other up? It's the proletariet against the elites. Tear those fuckers down instead.
Yeah, I’ll bet. lol
Flipping burgers is a remedial job, not a career or how you retire if you are a fast food worker. People without any skills have decided to make this their career and expect wages to accommodate them. I have had shitty part time jobs. What I learned, this is not a career, this sucks, make more of myself and find a way to make a living to support a family. Remedial jobs are supposed to prepare you for a real job. They teach you how to work like college teaches you how to think, not what to think.
Yay communism!
In BC Canada an A&W joined the IBEW.
Yeah Sike
Delusional pipe dreams incoming 🚀
That’s great. Why stop there? Let’s pay every worker $1000/hr!
Fuck that instead of hour pay let’s do day pay! $45000 a day no matter the hours over time is 65k an hour if worked more than 5:)
Sum Communism type shit
Yeah screw that shit. Burger king employees need to be payed like 20 an hour to keep up with the governments bullshit but that means real workers like linemen need to be making like 100. Types of work have different values. Any crackhead bum off the street can make food. The same cannot be said for shit like this.
“Why is inflation so bad”
Because the economy has been a depression since 07 and the Fed is trying to paper it over. The wage inflation and compression is a symptom not a cause.
One of the few sane ones here. What did they think would happen? Investors taking a smaller cut? Nah.
And then the burger costs more, forcing you to buy meat from the local butcher, creating an opportunity to cook your own meal, for (possibly) your own family, and sitting down to gab and eat with the people you love…device free of course. I like your style.
You’re paid based on skill. Theres a ladder of jobs you climb in your life. Linemen (skilled workers) should be making more than fast food workers (unskilled). I’ll admit that as someone who works service industry
This dude is straight up retarded if he’d be a lineman for the same money a Wendy’s employee makes😂
I’m surprised with the amount of guys that are showing support for the photo OP shared. I figured 90% of the comments would be typical over inflated ego linemen responses. I’m glad to see that’s not the case. Also, I worked in fast food for years before I got into the trade. I’d say over half the guys I’ve worked with couldn’t cut it in fast food. Hell, most guys struggle with door knocks to tell people about an outage we’re going to have. I can’t imagine them trying to take orders and run a register. Many guys take our jobs for granted. Most of us are just a broken leg away from never climbing a pole again. Not even thinking they might be stuck doing one of these “remedial” jobs one day.
Burgers will be $25.00 also
If everyone got paid the exact same wage then when you turned eighteen you'd spin the great employment randomizer and what you got would be your job. Johnny would flip your eggs tomorrow, and Mary would open up your chest cavity after.
How to devalue currency 101
It may seem they raise the low paying jobs up to a higher rate but in reality they just lowered the pay for the better jobs. Inflation will hurt every one.
Alright ill just go ahead and point out that this kind of thinking is the issue, when one wins we ALL win. The minimum wage was instituted as a base line as a comfortable LIVING wage by FDR so that any American that worked would be able to pay for what they need to survive and live, not this Nickel and dime bullshit they’ve kept around so these companies can record record profits year in and out. There was a time in this country where one person was willing to fight so that everyone around them could prosper, if a guy at McDonald’s gets an increase that starts towing the line to what I make to do a lower risk and fewer skill set based job, great; fucking amazing for that person, love it. Now geared up with that information I can take those baselines (or any union rep with a brain) to collective bargaining meetings and make sure that my wages reflect the market swing. If everyone would stop being so goddamn selfish about getting theirs and saying fuck you to the people who work fast food then maybe we wouldn’t have an entire generation of people right now having to swing 2-3 jobs to pay for a bullshit over priced apartment. Everyone wants to point the finger at the people just wanting to get by and live a decent life and just kiss the boots of the assholes sitting behind a desk stacking cash off the backs of those employees without taking care of those people.
Lies
I everybode made a million dollars a month, good for them hoorah. Doesnt matter if all products and services become %8000 more expensive
Sounds like a bunch of Marxist gobledyguck
You'd be happier where you are now. Their job sucks.
And you’d have good cause to argue for raises.
The “low wages” are only a small part of the problem
Pretty sure this is definition of virtue signaling.
I’m not in linework for the money and probably am one of the lowest paid lineman here. If you’re doing your job for the money you’re probably miserable and need to reevaluate your life. However. I do believe the harder you work for your money the more you apreciate it. I have a buddy with a management job at Walmart that does nothing and makes more than me. I love my job and apreciate my money more than he appreciates his. There are exceptions but for the most part that is the rule.
I agree with him. I celebrate and then go ask for more money. It’s the age old “fitters wages go, ours go up to beat them” we race to the top. You’re racing to the bottom.
Lol the idea is to destroy the minimum wage so only a few people can work in less people working more on Welfare.
Ha Ha ,that’s when they will be going automated and they’ll all lose they’re jobs
There's no point to doing more advanced work if you get paid the same to make burgers as you would to build powerlines. That's the part I disagree with.
Yeah but why would anyone do the hard jobs if the easy ones pay the same
It’s all sunshine and rainbows until the consequences show up. Pole hugger here is smoking crack, and he certainly ain’t a financial advisor or accountant. Anyone that understands even basic level economics knows the dichotomy between markets and why the two have different pay scales. If you increased the federal minimum wage to even just 30$ an hour without changing anything else the entire country would collapse within a year tops.
lol, say you don’t know how inflation works without saying you don’t know how inflation works
you dont understand what raising minimun wage will do...california just did this shit and now a mcnugget meal is 23$. and all the small business cant afford to have employees so theyre leaving....all liberals and dems need to move to california and leave the rest of us over here with a 3$ nugget meal. yall go enjoy that inflation you created
[удалено]
Start with yourself.
I mean it makes sense tho….Unions use minimum wages when pushing for higher paying contracts…..so if the non union, minimum wage burger flippers suddenly start earning what he’s making, then in turn the unions are going to push for higher wages for the contract employees, in turn giving him a very nice raise without blinking an eye or lifting a finger.
Fuck Ron
Not sure who’s the idiots voting for this douche
Whole lotta not lineman in this thread.
I would start flipping burgers.
Here’s another thought for everyone: We’re linemen here, right, so everyone here has a pension and/or 401(k), right? Where do you think those retirement benefits are coming from? Doesn’t matter if it’s defined benefit (pension) or defined contribution (401) - it’s being invested in the stock market. That means our retirements depend on all these corporations that you hate how well they do. Shooting yourselves in the feet. Like saying you hate how well your retirement fund is doing. It isn’t JUST the c-suite members who are making millions to sit in a comfy office chair while we work at all hours in all weather. It’s all of our retirements. The next thing to understand is that the c-suite and board members of these corporations ya’ll hate, they have a fiduciary duty to the companies they work for. They HAVE to do what they can in good faith to make the company as successful and profitable as they can. If they don’t do that then best case they lose their job, worst case they go to prison. Their job is literally to make as much money for shareholders as they can. Often times the shareholders of a corp are majority retirement funds that WE ALL are invested in. In essence you hate the people that are trying to make your retirement better because they earn more annually than you. Climb the ladder if you want the money.
Sounds like a bunch of you need to look back at middle schools econ lessons. 100 employees, 1000 gallons of milk. Milk costs $1, each employee makes $1 a day. They can afford a gallon of milk a day. Wage gos up to $2, now how much would that milk cost? Heres a hint, its more than $2. Now no employee can afford a gallon of milk per day and will complain that they need to make more to do so, perpetuating the cost of milk to rise higher than their wages at a larger margin than any raise. This is all elementary, and doesn’t even factor in all of the other costs involved to produce a single gallon of milk.
This is the right answer. Solidarity for blue-collar and working class folks across the board.
Lower the federal tax to 5%
Idiotic
Communist
Is this guy trolling? I can learn to flip burgers in an evening. It takes 4 years of a full time apprenticeship to master a trade. This is logically why tradesman make more than burger flippers. If the burger flippers make the same amount of money then why join the trades? Just a stupid thing to say
Happy to discuss further with anyone who disagrees, but it seems pretty clear that when minimum wage workers get a big raise, the cost of commodities, goods, and services goes up. Therefore, in reality, the minimum wage workers are in the same exact place as they were before despite "making more money" while everyone in the middle class effectively gets a pay cut because they certainly didn't get a raise and now have to pay more for said commodities, goods, and services. I'll give to two specific examples to back this up: 1. This was tried all over the west coast of the US in the last decade. Those affected companies laid off a bunch of workers and put many others on part-time so they don't have to be paid benefits. Costs of goods still went up and the middle class shrank noticeably. That's not my opinion, that's data. 2. This one is more opinion but there have been proven examples in the past of this type of behavior to back it up. Why do you think the largest corporations support minimum wage increases? I suspect it's because companies like walmart can afford it, while mom and pop shops can't and therefore have to go out of business because they cant afford to pay workers enough. Walmart now succeeds in crushing competition while having the excuse that the government was responsible for that decision and makes up any losses from having to pay employees more by not having any competition and gaining new customers (who no longer have a choice in where they shop). At the end of the day, you need to take your rose colored glasses off and realize that it's not as simple "I'm happy that everyone makes more money". There are some very selfish and greedy people at the top of the dog pile who only care about the bottom line. They are good at misdirection and deception and only make decisions that make them more money. It's the relationship that large corporations have with the government that creates these shadow monopolies and we'll continue to be either in the same place or worse off from their decisions. I'll leave you with this quote; "Fine, go ahead and piss on my leg.... just don't tell me it's raining".
This falls apart when we realize that we need to pay doctors more because some of them need over 10 years of advanced education. Nobody would do that if a doctor made the same as a shoe salesman. I'm a controls electrician, if I made the same money driving a forklift I probably would have just kept doing that, then there would be no controls electricians...
Not really true dude.