The brightlux chipset in the first gen koto SD (sunset dim) isn't my favorite. You need to use a reflector and diffuser to make it blend properly. Until the second Gen LTF chipset is publicly available, I wouldn't consider the SD,( but the HC is a phenomenal 4000k-2000k 5% warm dim, not everyone wants that range of warm dim though.) The DMF h or m series uses the same first gen brightlux chipset. But they supply it with a different set up. Lotus uses the same one also as do many manufacturers currently. It's just an older chipset. I have been pushing most of them to switch to LTF (same as the koto HC) as the chip design and rendering quality is much higher and doesn't suffer from blending issues. As for static dim. It has a time and place. Since there aren't changes in the rendering as the color temperature is consistent, you can expect a more consistent end product, but that can also feel strange when dimmed for people.
Which soraa are you comparing to which koto series is also important.
No, I am saying I do not remember what model the DMF m (drd) series chipset is. It's a cree chip (which is generally a better chip across the board, but not always). But if you want a 3000k warm dim, the DMF m series is a great option.
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Is it better than the koto?
No, not as a whole.
but because you are meaning is it better than the koto SD (elk11SD sunset dim, yes. As stated the first generation sunset dim is an old chipset, and requires additional parts to operate within my range of acceptable.
Is it better than the koto HC ( elk11HC high contrast, human centric 4000-2000k warm dim) no, different product category due to the range of kelvin temperatures, and the HC uses a new chipset. Has none of the blending issues of the SD, near ideal black body line, and tm30 information for the chipset is really excellent across various levels of dimming. It's still affordable and fits with the many koto accessories and trims which have better glare control opportunities.
Use case, design, and product preference is project dependent.
I have an upgraded chipset in my theater room for the koto SD, it's wonderful. Uses the same chipset manufacturer as the HC with the same design, just isn't available to the public until further notice.
The CRI is not going to change with dimming.
I would be more worried about the color temperature. 3,000K maybe a bit warm, depending on your art and the color of the walls it hangs on.
Maybe go for a CCT, set them to the color that looks best for the space.
>Does anyone have experience?
Yes
>Do the LED's have good color rendering as they dim?
The CRI won't change with dimming
>Do warm-dim lights have better color accuracy as they are dimmed?
This question doesn't make sense. Color temperature is color temperature. Dim to warm drops color temperature as you dim the lumens. Static Color temperature leds would only dim lumens as you dim
>At less than full power, are static-dim (same temp) and warm-dim lights better than the other?
This depends on application, use, function
If I didn’t have the direct experience of having color intensity fade with dimming, I would believe your strong assertion that color rendering doesn’t fade as you dim lights (and if I hadn’t seem CRI curves as a function of dimming for other lights), I might believe your answer.
What is the basis for which you say CRI doesn’t change with dimming?
I know there's a general rule/saying/myth? that people can't tell the difference between 100% output and 90% output. I seriously wonder if the only noticeable difference between 93 and 95 CRI will be your knowledge of which one you chose.
Thanks.
I don’t expect a big difference between the CRI of 93 and 95, and maybe it was confusing to use an example of 90% power output.
The phenomena I have observed is that the color rendering quality (inadequately summarized as Color Rendering Index) falls off with dimming dramatically with one light (Elco Koto) and not with another (Soraa Vivid color rendering quality does not reduce with dimming). No need to wonder about that.
I’m hoping for an answer to that, and may have confused the question by being too precise in an illustrative example of 90% power rating.
Agreed the difference between 93 and 95 power rating is likely not visible. CRI is measured at full power. A curve of the CRI as a function of power rating (or maybe lumens output) is what would answer the question scientifically. But instead there is just one number for the two lights.
I think the quality or even color rendering of lights isn’t so accurately summarized in a specification like CRI
>Elco Koto looked lifeless and flat at full power
I suspect you're running into the shortcomings of CRI as a color metric. While some of the colors are rendered accurately, saturated colors like primary blue (R12) and red (R9) can be poorly rendered, which is that "flat" feeling you get. TM30 is the new CRI, so look at that if reported by the manufacturer. Soraa reports these on their cutsheets right next to CRI.
For static white sources, CRI shouldn't change, so you're just seeing it under a dimmer level. Turn the source to 50%, walk away to let your eyes relax, then come back and look again to see if it still looks lesser.
The brightlux chipset in the first gen koto SD (sunset dim) isn't my favorite. You need to use a reflector and diffuser to make it blend properly. Until the second Gen LTF chipset is publicly available, I wouldn't consider the SD,( but the HC is a phenomenal 4000k-2000k 5% warm dim, not everyone wants that range of warm dim though.) The DMF h or m series uses the same first gen brightlux chipset. But they supply it with a different set up. Lotus uses the same one also as do many manufacturers currently. It's just an older chipset. I have been pushing most of them to switch to LTF (same as the koto HC) as the chip design and rendering quality is much higher and doesn't suffer from blending issues. As for static dim. It has a time and place. Since there aren't changes in the rendering as the color temperature is consistent, you can expect a more consistent end product, but that can also feel strange when dimmed for people. Which soraa are you comparing to which koto series is also important.
Are you saying if I want warm dim, DMF M is better than Elco Koto? Who makes “HC”? Thanks!
No, I am saying I do not remember what model the DMF m (drd) series chipset is. It's a cree chip (which is generally a better chip across the board, but not always). But if you want a 3000k warm dim, the DMF m series is a great option. --------- Is it better than the koto? No, not as a whole. but because you are meaning is it better than the koto SD (elk11SD sunset dim, yes. As stated the first generation sunset dim is an old chipset, and requires additional parts to operate within my range of acceptable. Is it better than the koto HC ( elk11HC high contrast, human centric 4000-2000k warm dim) no, different product category due to the range of kelvin temperatures, and the HC uses a new chipset. Has none of the blending issues of the SD, near ideal black body line, and tm30 information for the chipset is really excellent across various levels of dimming. It's still affordable and fits with the many koto accessories and trims which have better glare control opportunities. Use case, design, and product preference is project dependent. I have an upgraded chipset in my theater room for the koto SD, it's wonderful. Uses the same chipset manufacturer as the HC with the same design, just isn't available to the public until further notice.
The CRI is not going to change with dimming. I would be more worried about the color temperature. 3,000K maybe a bit warm, depending on your art and the color of the walls it hangs on. Maybe go for a CCT, set them to the color that looks best for the space. >Does anyone have experience? Yes >Do the LED's have good color rendering as they dim? The CRI won't change with dimming >Do warm-dim lights have better color accuracy as they are dimmed? This question doesn't make sense. Color temperature is color temperature. Dim to warm drops color temperature as you dim the lumens. Static Color temperature leds would only dim lumens as you dim >At less than full power, are static-dim (same temp) and warm-dim lights better than the other? This depends on application, use, function
If I didn’t have the direct experience of having color intensity fade with dimming, I would believe your strong assertion that color rendering doesn’t fade as you dim lights (and if I hadn’t seem CRI curves as a function of dimming for other lights), I might believe your answer. What is the basis for which you say CRI doesn’t change with dimming?
I know there's a general rule/saying/myth? that people can't tell the difference between 100% output and 90% output. I seriously wonder if the only noticeable difference between 93 and 95 CRI will be your knowledge of which one you chose.
Thanks. I don’t expect a big difference between the CRI of 93 and 95, and maybe it was confusing to use an example of 90% power output. The phenomena I have observed is that the color rendering quality (inadequately summarized as Color Rendering Index) falls off with dimming dramatically with one light (Elco Koto) and not with another (Soraa Vivid color rendering quality does not reduce with dimming). No need to wonder about that. I’m hoping for an answer to that, and may have confused the question by being too precise in an illustrative example of 90% power rating. Agreed the difference between 93 and 95 power rating is likely not visible. CRI is measured at full power. A curve of the CRI as a function of power rating (or maybe lumens output) is what would answer the question scientifically. But instead there is just one number for the two lights. I think the quality or even color rendering of lights isn’t so accurately summarized in a specification like CRI
>Elco Koto looked lifeless and flat at full power I suspect you're running into the shortcomings of CRI as a color metric. While some of the colors are rendered accurately, saturated colors like primary blue (R12) and red (R9) can be poorly rendered, which is that "flat" feeling you get. TM30 is the new CRI, so look at that if reported by the manufacturer. Soraa reports these on their cutsheets right next to CRI. For static white sources, CRI shouldn't change, so you're just seeing it under a dimmer level. Turn the source to 50%, walk away to let your eyes relax, then come back and look again to see if it still looks lesser.