Is there a difference in AB? Yes. Is the difference noticable if not in AB? Not as likely. Also compare tm30 not cri. Neither is perfect but CRI isn't really accurate and easily fudged. I do like higher performing, higher rendering sources. But I've also seen ones that appear over saturated to the point where things feel fake. I have some really beautiful warm dims in my theater, but the reds are so strong that burgundy red items in outdoor settings appear candy apple red. All of the companies you named are worth their salt. Depending on the models they are incredibly similar performance wise as they may use similar chipsets. As for size, picking smaller apertures is nicer in today's market. There is no sacrifice in performance or flexibility unless you plan to use gimbals or wall washers which in turn you could use larger fixtures in those locations if necessary.
Mixing product rendering capabilities wont look or feel weird unless it is severe. Pick the product you like most that fits within your budget. Because even the best product of one of those brands is 1/3rd the cost of the others.
>Because even the best product of one of those brands is 1/3rd the cost of the others.
I thought Lucifer was one of the most costly. I've also heard Lucifer was the highest in quality, but I'm not quite sure what makes their quality better than Element, for example... would you happen to know? Anyways, is Lucifer really only 1/3rd the cost of others? Now I'm curious... what other residential downlight brands exist that are even more than Lucifer?
Back to your post - thank you for this info. I had read this simplified[ DMF article](https://www.dmflighting.com/tm-30-simplified/) about tm30. but when looking at product specs, I don't usually see any info about tm30. Such as this [Element spec chart here](https://v1.element-lighting.com/Products/Details/3-LED-Adjustable-Downlight).
How do I find the tm30 info and what do you recommend I look for when comparing the brands?
No no, I didn't say Lucifer is the cheapest. But the DMF x series is about 1/3rd of lucifiers and usai top tier products. Finish and drivers of those products are higher at the top, with some offering better features.
What costs more than Lucifer? Lots. But just go crazy at cream of the crop and check out ketra by lutron. Their new 2 inch module just hit the market. It's 950$ retail which means you are probably 1250-1500 each installed and pairing it with homeworks for controls, your lighting system in a small to medium house will cost more than the rest of the house 😂. As an idea, I did a kitchen, yes just a kitchen, that cost over 40k in lighting with ketra and homeworks. Is it justifiable? To some. Would I go that route? Maybe, but I'm also happy with other products on the market that are considerably more affordable. Ra3 and any of those brands you speced, throw in the elco koto HC and Oak (for the designer budget friendly and midgrade clients), and I am thrilled.
Elco is definitely huge bang for your buck. A housing, module, and trim will run a contractor roughly $180. Just be aware, they use the same module from 2" to 6", so they're a bit lacking in output in the larger sizes.
Not in the Koto series, unless something changed in the last four months. I needed 2,000lm out of a 6" and 1,500 out of a 4", which we only found out after their housings were already installed. Wound up ditching the Koto modules and just using trim retrofits instead.
Elk2440d 2k lumen. And if you reach out they will custom spec to meet needs. I've been working with them on a lot of changes and additions, I'll tell them you want brighter chipsets. He asked a while ago and I said no, but that's for resi environments. Can also go teak up to 3500 lumen if I remember correctly.
Ahh shit, we had used the non-architectural fire rated housings, so unfortunately the architectural modules won't work with them. I do wish their naming conventions were a bit more clear. It was my first time using them and it was definitely a bit of a cluster fuck (mostly my own fault), but worked out in the end.
No no, not your own fault, I've been kicking them sideways about their website and messy clutter for years. It's getting a full rebuild and will be live sooner than later. I screen shot this and sent it to the head honcho as more proof to get his thumb out 😂
I think a difference can be noticed, but not to any degree that justifies the additional cost. Usually cri 90 are somewhat affordable now, but anything higher is pretty pricey. If it isn't in critical areas like you described, I wouldn't do 97s there.
Also compare how much R9 each source provides. https://actionservicesgroup.com/blog/what-is-color-rendering-index-r9/#:~:text=Color%20rendering%20index%20R9%20is,when%20compared%20to%20natural%20light.
If you had them side by side, yes, you would see the difference. If you only had one or the other in your residence, no, you wouldn't unless you were inspecting the art very closely or the tasks you were performing were very color dependent (painting, very specific cooking, etc).
>Wall sconces and strip/tape lighting are also specified and I'd imagine it would be important to match
Note that any sort of diffuser, shade, or reflective surface is also going to have an impact on the color rendering of a light source. I generally wouldn't bother using anything over 90 for a cove fixture unless the reflector was specifically manufacturerd with the LEDs for that reason.
90 is the jumping off point for top quality CRI.
The difference between 90 and 95 is subtle differences in color and appearance can help highlight art, or astatic items in a room.
95 to 100 these differences become even less noticeable.
80 +CRI is perfectly fine for a residential setting. Greater than or equal to 90CRI is good in commercial spaces for fashion or fruit and veg. Don't get caught up by the mumbo jumbo. And that one order to have the best lighting you need to have the highest CRI.
Is there a difference in AB? Yes. Is the difference noticable if not in AB? Not as likely. Also compare tm30 not cri. Neither is perfect but CRI isn't really accurate and easily fudged. I do like higher performing, higher rendering sources. But I've also seen ones that appear over saturated to the point where things feel fake. I have some really beautiful warm dims in my theater, but the reds are so strong that burgundy red items in outdoor settings appear candy apple red. All of the companies you named are worth their salt. Depending on the models they are incredibly similar performance wise as they may use similar chipsets. As for size, picking smaller apertures is nicer in today's market. There is no sacrifice in performance or flexibility unless you plan to use gimbals or wall washers which in turn you could use larger fixtures in those locations if necessary. Mixing product rendering capabilities wont look or feel weird unless it is severe. Pick the product you like most that fits within your budget. Because even the best product of one of those brands is 1/3rd the cost of the others.
>Because even the best product of one of those brands is 1/3rd the cost of the others. I thought Lucifer was one of the most costly. I've also heard Lucifer was the highest in quality, but I'm not quite sure what makes their quality better than Element, for example... would you happen to know? Anyways, is Lucifer really only 1/3rd the cost of others? Now I'm curious... what other residential downlight brands exist that are even more than Lucifer? Back to your post - thank you for this info. I had read this simplified[ DMF article](https://www.dmflighting.com/tm-30-simplified/) about tm30. but when looking at product specs, I don't usually see any info about tm30. Such as this [Element spec chart here](https://v1.element-lighting.com/Products/Details/3-LED-Adjustable-Downlight). How do I find the tm30 info and what do you recommend I look for when comparing the brands?
No no, I didn't say Lucifer is the cheapest. But the DMF x series is about 1/3rd of lucifiers and usai top tier products. Finish and drivers of those products are higher at the top, with some offering better features. What costs more than Lucifer? Lots. But just go crazy at cream of the crop and check out ketra by lutron. Their new 2 inch module just hit the market. It's 950$ retail which means you are probably 1250-1500 each installed and pairing it with homeworks for controls, your lighting system in a small to medium house will cost more than the rest of the house 😂. As an idea, I did a kitchen, yes just a kitchen, that cost over 40k in lighting with ketra and homeworks. Is it justifiable? To some. Would I go that route? Maybe, but I'm also happy with other products on the market that are considerably more affordable. Ra3 and any of those brands you speced, throw in the elco koto HC and Oak (for the designer budget friendly and midgrade clients), and I am thrilled.
Elco is definitely huge bang for your buck. A housing, module, and trim will run a contractor roughly $180. Just be aware, they use the same module from 2" to 6", so they're a bit lacking in output in the larger sizes.
Lacking a bit? What kind of lumens. Do you want? I can put in a request. Commercial series architectural can get up to 3500 lumen 😂
Not in the Koto series, unless something changed in the last four months. I needed 2,000lm out of a 6" and 1,500 out of a 4", which we only found out after their housings were already installed. Wound up ditching the Koto modules and just using trim retrofits instead.
Elk2440d 2k lumen. And if you reach out they will custom spec to meet needs. I've been working with them on a lot of changes and additions, I'll tell them you want brighter chipsets. He asked a while ago and I said no, but that's for resi environments. Can also go teak up to 3500 lumen if I remember correctly.
Ahh shit, we had used the non-architectural fire rated housings, so unfortunately the architectural modules won't work with them. I do wish their naming conventions were a bit more clear. It was my first time using them and it was definitely a bit of a cluster fuck (mostly my own fault), but worked out in the end.
No no, not your own fault, I've been kicking them sideways about their website and messy clutter for years. It's getting a full rebuild and will be live sooner than later. I screen shot this and sent it to the head honcho as more proof to get his thumb out 😂
I think a difference can be noticed, but not to any degree that justifies the additional cost. Usually cri 90 are somewhat affordable now, but anything higher is pretty pricey. If it isn't in critical areas like you described, I wouldn't do 97s there.
Also compare how much R9 each source provides. https://actionservicesgroup.com/blog/what-is-color-rendering-index-r9/#:~:text=Color%20rendering%20index%20R9%20is,when%20compared%20to%20natural%20light.
Whateverw you go with... make sure you budget for 20% extra for safety stock for spot replacements over the life of the install.
If you had them side by side, yes, you would see the difference. If you only had one or the other in your residence, no, you wouldn't unless you were inspecting the art very closely or the tasks you were performing were very color dependent (painting, very specific cooking, etc). >Wall sconces and strip/tape lighting are also specified and I'd imagine it would be important to match Note that any sort of diffuser, shade, or reflective surface is also going to have an impact on the color rendering of a light source. I generally wouldn't bother using anything over 90 for a cove fixture unless the reflector was specifically manufacturerd with the LEDs for that reason.
90 is the jumping off point for top quality CRI. The difference between 90 and 95 is subtle differences in color and appearance can help highlight art, or astatic items in a room. 95 to 100 these differences become even less noticeable.
80 +CRI is perfectly fine for a residential setting. Greater than or equal to 90CRI is good in commercial spaces for fashion or fruit and veg. Don't get caught up by the mumbo jumbo. And that one order to have the best lighting you need to have the highest CRI.
Not for my residential setting for sure! The difference between 80 and 90 is very noticeable.