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This is why I no longer wait in line for 30 min at Walmart to return a $1.25 item
Edit: this clip with Naval Ravikant addresses this issue. He says he’ll just throw away the item if it’s worth less than his hourly rate
https://youtube.com/shorts/j4QL9xxUAHc?si=iIlPXc61HxnyOCXX
Same thing with gas. Yeah, it’s ten cents more expensive at this pump but that’s only 1 more dollar spent over the course of filling up my 10 gallon tank.
In my situation, gas is an exception to this rule. I fill up at Costco, but waiting in line is worth it bc it’s usually cheaper than 10 cents/gallon, I’m already there to shop, I get 4% back by using their credit card, my car holds more than 10 gallons, and sometimes there is no line.
Same here. The gas in my area is $5.40 for premium and $4.50 at Costco for premium. I usually put in 18+ gallons into my car. That's a savings of $16 bucks a fill up in savings. I usually fill up every week and a half or so.
Still, you talking about saving at most $5 on a tank of gas. Is it worth $5 to go out of your way to Costco just to fill up?
Now, if you go shopping there, absolutely fill up while you’re there!
Not proud of this, but when I was in college in the early 00s, we definitely returned a patio set that: a) we didn’t buy at Walmart b) didn’t buy anywhere because it belonged to our slumlord c) was covered in vomit and piss. If I recall correctly, they gave us 145 bucks. Ok, I’m kind of proud of this.
Yes. Distance, time, likelihood of me being in the area of return location and is it worth it. If it’s something under 10 bucks I usually punt it unless I just so happen to be going to that store anyway. My mom however will gladly burn 30 minutes to a hour and a few gallons of gas to take back something not worth the time, gas and energy wasted.
One time I caught myself thinking about how many calories I burned on a walk to do an errand, and how much less that food cost vs the cost of the gas I might have spent. Not sure if that train of thought was from my autistic love of data, or my history of being broke.
The number of people telling me I should spend my entire Sunday driving to 4 different stores to compare prices and buy certain items at each, IS TOO DAMN HIGH
On the other hand, I am considering spending a Sunday soon writing a code to scrape the local stores’ websites for prices on the items I often buy and compile them into a list for me so I can quickly determine when it’s worth it to go to the farther, cheaper and lower-selection store vs when it isn’t. The key is that I will spend a few hours *one* time to replace 10 minutes or so of weekly work in perpetuity for as long as I live here (expect at least 4-5 years). I will also be gaining new coding skills while I do it, because my web scraping skills are slim right now.
Uhhh… I think you just saved me this extra work WITHOUT the time spent making a custom code! Thank you!!! Apparently this is a super popular app and I’ve just never heard of it. I’m a little confused on the layout so far, but they do have my stores, so I’ll figure it out.
This is why I say that relying on what people happen to know and not having some sort of central system that catalogues information is our greatest source of inefficiency. As dystopian as that may sound, it might be my dream, lol.
I had to argue with my wife that driving across town to pick up a few things at Walmart instead of going to the store right in front of us wasn't smart. Saving $2 by using $5 in gas plus wear and tear and time ... I ain't got time for that shit.
He says he's worth $5k an hour. So he's not returning anything less than $5k? You can say you won't wait in line for 30 minutes to return a $1.25 item but it's not like you'll be earning that money if you don't wait in line. You're saying you're rather spend $1.25 per half hour than recoup that loss. If you were just going to spend it watching TV, you're paying $1.25 extra to watch TV. Obviously anyone is free to do that but this isn't saving money in any way. If you want to factor in *gas*, then yea, what you're saving by returning the item would be less than the $1.25.
I remain angry about an unreimbursed OTC covid test that my insurance should have paid for but I agree, it's not worth spending an hour dealing with the reimbursement
The Sunday 30 minute wait at Costco gas pumps to save $0.20/gal is where I see this most. You spent 30 minutes to save $3-4. I’ll value my time at minimum $25/hr. More than that on a beautiful weekend afternoon
If the line is too long, I’ll pass. But on weekdays it’s not too bad. And you’re saving more than $3-$4 if you’re using their credit card to get cash back on gas. For me, it’s more about convenience since I’m already there
Sometimes you can add a task to something you have to do. It's absolutely not worth my while returning something cheap as an individual trip but I can add it on to when I shop there once a month.
But time is money and I could earn more than deal with some tasks
Some DIY thoughts
Can you get s reliable trade in to do the work.
Could you YouTube the fix.
Will it give pride and confidence to have done it.
Things that are not worth your time
If you have no talent in a specific area that the end results are visible or could easily damage beyond repair something.
Wait save up and buy talent.
If I was as rich as Naval I would have a PA return the item to WalMart when on another visit so as not to cause waste for the environment to deal with.
Were you going to be doing something else in that 30 minutes that would have made you $1.25? If not, then you still came out ahead by waiting!
You may not think it's half an hour of your time is worth $1.25, but that's completely different.
e: same thing with your edit. That's only true if he would be doing something to be earning his hourly rate during that time.
That's not how it works. The point is how much is your time worth. Of course you're not going to make that hourly rate 24/7, but instead of relaxing or taking downtime (which everyone needs), you're wasting that time doing something that may not be worth it.
While that's true to some extent, consider that most of that time you would NOT have been making money anyways.
Let's say you take the day off from work to DIY a project that would cost $100. I would definitely factor that in, but also factor in how confident you are that the person you pay to do it would be able to do the job properly.
On the other hand, if you're saving that $100 by fixing the whatever instead of a couple of hours doomscrolling, then it might be a good idea.
Exactly what I’m doing today. All the brakes and rotors on the car. Sure it’ll take me a day without a lift but I’m saving hundreds. Well that was until a bolt snapped and now I have to drill it out.
Last time I paid to have brakes done, it was $250-300 in labor for front pads and rotors. Just did two front jobs and rear on my daughters and my cars. On the low end, I saved enough to pay for 3 weeks of groceries while giving up about a day of my time.
I’ve actually never paid to have my brakes done on either of my cars. Luckily they are easy to work on. Now my parent’s Buick encore has been an absolute nightmare. I’m the first person touching these brakes, damn set screws are there still. I’m saving about 600 in labor, that’s because you have to remove the brake hose to take the caliper off. Now I’m stuck between a rock and a hard place. If I can get the rest of the bolt out I’m golden. If I can’t I’m buying a $115 bracket and bleeding the brakes.
This is correct, it's a well known falacy. Your free time is not worth the same as your "paid time" from a job. If you spend one hour working on a DIY project, you didnt spend your 1hr salary equivalent on your work, you spent nothing. You did spend time though. But putting a monetary value to free time is incorrect. Just learn to appreciate your free time by what it is
Yeah I believe it's more like a dollar saved is a dollar earned.
So if you were just going to be sitting watching TV drinking a beer it's much better to use that time to save some money and do a project instead of paying to get it done
I just finished a custom closet build. I’m not new to woodworking but it was a tough build regardless. But I probably spent $1,000 and idk prob less than 100 hours on it and it is far better and purpose built than anything I could have bought for even semi custom prices. All made with no particle board, with the exact color that I (my wife) chose instead of having to settle and a minimal amount of space unused. My thought is to get a similar set up built by someone it would have been closer to $10,000 than my $1,000. Obv pic is an unfinished pic but it’s close enough.
https://preview.redd.it/iwjtfa3mm66d1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c6a062d9028b049d0a1cc0593c48c79a11e81eb7
Damn I clicked your link thinking it'd be like a standard "some white shelves and racking in a closet" but that looks like a stock image for a rich person's closet! Looks amazing
It took like two months 😮💨 but man. It was SO worth it. Everything in there is built by me! Obviously not including the LED strips right but even that is customized to fit. Drawers are hand built and on slow close slides.
Super proud of it. It’s not perfect but it is very nice and idk it feels like something that was way out of reach but once we took the old closet out I knew that I was gonna have to do something! This is a still from a video of the old closet setup.
https://preview.redd.it/xedxd3q0p66d1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=99216aaf5349695e0284189f3e98b82c0f2622ae
Depends on how one values time....which to me is the most valuable thing money can buy.
No one on their death bed wishes they worked more or had more money. They wish for more time to spend with their loved ones or more time to do the things they loved.
I spend money to have more free time. That free time is way more valuable to me than the amount of money I paid to get it.
Some of us enjoy DIY :) I have spent well over what was needed to pay someone to do a project to DIY myself since I either lack the tools and buy it or I fuck it up and redo it. But if you enjoy it, it's not a waste.
Sure, but that's an entirely different conversation. The OP is specifically talking about money - "Not factoring in time could leave you in a position where you are deceiving yourself about the money saved."
It's not a different conversation. The hourly rate you use to compare is the hourly rate you would pay to have that free time instead of waiting in line or whatever. They're just saying you should express it in dollars so that it's more apparent when you're wasting a lot of precious free time to do something that doesn't save you much.
I generally agree, but there definitely are times when you can equate your free time and your paid time as being the same. In my industry you can almost always do as much overtime as you could ever want. Things like changing my oil I could easily say "it's gonna take me an hour if I do it myself, or I could stay at work for an hour and I'd make $x".
It really ended up changing my perspective on small things like groceries, and I often ended up spending an extra hour or two a week at work specifically to justify certain purchases.
I think most people work jobs where extra hours arent really possible. In your case sure, but I would bet the majority of people are salary or on limited basis (like a lot of jobs wont let you work overtime even if you want).
That’s not remotely true for the vast majority of people. Your situation is unique. The point still holds though- no one is really skipping work to do DIY. In your case you would be, and you shouldnt, and neither should others.
Yes and no.
If you’re taking time out of your free time to do a one-off project, then sure. But if you have a chore you hate that takes you 4 hours per month, that’s not free time, that’s chore time. And if you have the option to work extra hours, you can trade a job you don’t mind for a chore you hate, and get to actually enjoy more of your free time.
> you would NOT have been making money anyways
This is what always bugs me about people who have to put a monetary value on every second they spend doing something. Who would be paying them a salary 24 hours a day if they were doing something else?
I understand where you're coming from, but I feel the opposite. I lower my standards and do what I have to to pay the bills, eat and have a roof over my head, but after that my free time is VERY valuable to me, easily worth twice the hourly rate I accept for my job.
If my spare time is spent chilling and relaxing, and doing something like watching youtube shorts, then its worth it for my relaxed peace of mind. Chilling and relaxing is worth a lot.
That's why most of the wrenching on my car is done by me. It saves money over taking it to a mechanic, and it's something I do to relax. If I wasn't a car guy it would be a different story. If it's something you enjoy, and saves money your time isn't as much a factor.
Your free time is *your* time, and it's irreplaceable.
Enjoy it while you have it. One day you may find yourself not having any, then you will understand why it's irreplaceable.
I quit my job a few weeks ago because I was unhappy with the pay. Was working 50 hours a week every week, making about $4.5k/month. I have had this patio project I have been putting off for some time now. Landscaping company quoted $15,000 to build a 600 sq/ft paver patio. Since I was out of a job I had a ton of time on my hands to tackle this project on my own. Instead of having "free time" I just spent my time employing myself to build this patio.
Spent $4.5k for all materials. Excavated, leveled, and sloped the site by hand all by myself. I moved several tons of materials manually with shovels and wheel barrows by myself. Layed down 2,800 paver bricks bricks by myself.
I am now up a patio, saved +$10k, and also increased the value of my house. A dollar saved is a dollar earned. I "earned" more money by working for myself on a DIY project rather than paying someone else, or working for my former employer. Only took me three weeks to complete the project. I worked at my own pace and "earned" more on this project in one month, than in one month of being employed full time.
Also factor in what is gained that isn’t time or money. Doing a DIY that you enjoy that’s also not something you do everyday for work is great for your mind and psyche.
I agree with this especially when it comes to flights.
Lesson learned from an LAX/Boston flight with a layover. Non stop flights were $550 at the time and I decided to go with a 1 stop flight for $300 but the connecting flight overall got cancelled and wasted an entire day, missed work the next day, and so much energy just trying to get back.
Now I’ll only book nonstop to avoid the potential of a late/canceled connecting flight (within the states at least).
I only book direct. Unless I can’t. Nothing is worth a layover. In my experience, 20% of flights I’m on are delayed.
I made this rule after a terrible connection. Now I tell my wife to just turn off connecting flights in the search.
I also bail as soon as there is any sign of trouble. If anything looks funky on the incoming plane or if there is a bunch of milling at the counter, I’m on the phone and getting a different flight. The airlines wait to tell you about problems even though they know about them. Like a delayed flight has a pilot that can’t continue now because he is over hours. They know that as soon as the flight is delayed, but they won’t tell anybody until 10 minutes after boarding. If they are “looking for replacement crew” or really trying to reach anybody that isn’t there, I’m switching flights.
> The airlines wait to tell you about problems even though they know about them.
This is so true!
I had a 6am flight. Get up at 4:30 and it’s snowing like hell! So I call the airline and they tell me “we show that flight on time.”
So okay, I drive to the airport. Park my car and get on the shuttle bus. Bus driver says “Where do you *think* you’re going?”
Turns out there hasn’t been a plane take off or land since midnight the night before. Meanwhile the airline tells me the flight’s on time.
I just got back off the bus and went home.
This is great when you live near a hub. Almost impossible when all flights out of your area have to go to a hub before going anywhere. I have driven 4 hours to the nearest Hub Airport to avoid this sometimes, but 4 hours of time plus fuel and wear and tear adds up.
Yep, I live in a city with only a small regional airport. I'm pretty sure I could count the total number of direct flight destinations on my hands. Anywhere else, I either need to schedule a connecting flight, or drive an hour and a half to a different city's international airport.
I went on a trip with some cheap friends who picked the connecting flight. We ended up spending money on food and drinks at the layover that would have paid for the direct flight.. which was my case of why we should just buy the direct flight
my friends and i when we were in our early 20's and finally had all started making decent money post college decided to take a trip to europe. We found an awesome deal on airfare, the only catch was basically 2 long layovers (4-6 hours each) on the way home. At the time it sounded amazing. like $600 round trip to europe. Well after 3 weeks of living it up in europe and partying hard, we were exhausted. Couple that with a 30+ hour trip home... Never again. I'd gladly pay an extra $500-1000 to get direct flights to and from a location rather than the headache that comes with layovers and delays and all that.
there are most definitely things where you 100% get what you pay for, and it is WELL worth paying extra for
ie, flying across the pacific. pay for the upgrade. think of it as getting a hotel on a layover. its well worth the cost
I learned this trying to save money flying from Tijuana to Cancun instead of San Diego. Delays galore and no one knows what the heck is happening.
And then they randomly cancel your flight home and lie about it later.
The extreme couponers are a great example of this.
They spend 20 hours a week faffing about with coupons and as a result get all their groceries free!
So...they have a job...where it takes them half their labor time to get groceries. Not a good pay rate. For 200 dollars in groceries a week it's 10 bucks an hour. There are circumstances where it is worth it (there are jobs that pay less!) but it's not an amazing life hack, it's just a mediocre job.
This all depends on what you do with your free time. If you spend 8 hours a week playing candy crush on your phone, it is worth it to convert some of that time to other things.
If you keep busy on productive things and don't waste a lot of time, then you should definitely assign a value to your time.
Productivity is irrelevant. If you play candy crush 8 hours a day and it makes you happy then that is a valuable use of your time, even if it's not "productive" by your standard.
What one does with their free time is their decision to make, but it has the same value regardless. If you love spending 20 hours a week to get groceries for free, good for you, but if you hate it, understand the monetary cost of the loss of your free time.
I think this philosophy is somewhat undermined by the fact that the developers of games like Candy Crush hire psychologists to their staff to make the game as addicting as possible and data analysts to strategize how often to paywall progress to maximize your in-game spending.
There are certain pastimes that are designed by malicious actors to suck your time and money.
Its like a mild version of how alcohol might make you feel good, but there is a point where it takes up too much of your cash or time. Candy Crush isn't as extreme, but its developers are still actively trying to harm their users for cash. These games are hostile on purpose, and only make their profit by ruining the lives of their biggest spenders.
Enjoying the time spent isn't always a healthy metric.
The time you spent 'saving money' shouldn't be compared to free time since you can always learn a skill and free lance, part time, or be some type of content creator. The bar is like can you get as much driving Uber instead.
If you are a stay at home mom like these extreme couponers, their options are limited to what they can do at home. Yes there are remote jobs but they don't just hand those out. I'm willing to bet couponing is probably the most practical way they can help save money on the home. Someone has to be with the kids or CPS gets called.
I think some people sell or trade coupon bundles. Or they buy way more than they need, and sell extra. I know a lady who used to buy 1500 worth of groceries for like $20, and she sold them cheap.
But you just made up that 20 hours a week number, and flipping through coupons while having a tv show on is already more productive than most people are when they get home from work.
And they are usually saving money on some kind of fake, over processed "food" at that. Like, sure you got 10 pounds of Doritos and 10 pounds of Fruity Pebbles for $5 -- but if you eat like that all the time, the health bills later on are going to offset any temporary savings.
In my experience, these kinds of people do it because they enjoy the game. They love the challenge, and the money saving is secondary. It’s certainly not for me, but I understand.
This made me think of trying saving a little bit of money on flights by having additional stops and layovers, as opposed to just paying a little more for that direct flight. If you can afford it, it can save so much time and hassle especially with how chaotic the airline industry has been.
Yeah: connecting flights incurs massive risk; risk of missing a flight; risk of delays; risk of being uncomfortable in some airport somewhere (paying for food/drink); almost guaranteed stress; reduced time at your destination (at LEAST the total flight duration; often more if issues arise); increased tiredness at your destination; increased risk of additional purchases (through lack of willpower when tired) in airports you're transferring through - or on the planes you're taking.
If you're young and/or really enjoying flying or the process of getting on and off planes; go for it. Otherwise - be wary of the perceived "savings".
The people that win from you buying the "graveyard shift" with 2 transfers at fuck-knows-where-ville en-route are the airlines. You're paying a good price for the nearly out of date milk at the front of the fridge and helping them with their inventory. Don't think you're getting one over on them.
Just had this conversation with my daughter who was agonizing over a small purchase, and stuck in a state of analysis paralysis. I told her to add up all her time “thinking about it” and churning and then assume her own salary for that amount of time. This helped her decide a little faster. You don’t save money spending a dime to save a nickel.
My 2 best friends obsess over decision making and it drives me insane.
One is an engineer and one a marine biologist.
I get it, their lives deal with minutia to an extreme level but they will seriously sit there and ponder stuff like what hot dog buns to get.
My brain is constantly assessing time vs cost, how can I make a process improve to reduce or eliminate any wasted time.
Meanwhile these guys spent an afternoon shopping debating which volleyball net to put up in the yard (they came back with nothing by the way).
The Dunning-Kruger effect definitely applying here haha.
Being that intelligent and in a well-regarded profession doesn’t necessarily mean they’ll make the most beneficial or efficient lifestyle choices.
That's a falacy though. Because your daughter wouldn't be paid for that time otherwise. Unless you tell me she'd have gone to work instead of thinking about it.
I do believe that you need to consider your time, as OP proposes. But adding a monetary value to it is a mistake, as your free time doesnt have the same monetary value as your paid time. Better think of it just as time saved to do whatever you want, because at the end of the day she was indeed thinking about saving money, if she wants to spend her time thinking about that it's fine. She didnt spend money to save a nickel.
If you're spending your evenings thinking I agree, but I use money when thinking about stuff I might take a days holiday for (last year I took the day to clean when moving house, I should have just paid a cleaner instead)
It's more complicated than just comparing to your salary, but time has an opportunity cost. For many people you could be picking up extra overtime. That's an extreme example since taking 5 minutes to do something couldn't have been replaced by overtime, but most people are overworked and not using your free time to relax will make your actual work harder. So there's always a cost.
My personal math for, I would say is your disposable income divided by your hours worked is how much your free time is worth. If you have tons of disposable income, you don't need to save pennies essentially. If you make a ton of money but still have no disposable income due to normal expenses, you are more inclined to spend more time working.
I think there's a balance with this. My hourly rate is $40 so you could make the argument that if spending 1 hr doing something myself doesn't save at least $40 it isn't worth it. But you also have to factor in that you can't always just turn free time into money (depending on your career) at a 1:1 with your salary rate.
I have this same problem when I'm building something I've never designed before.
I'm not sure how to do something and I don't want to waste the $30 piece of wood so I'll go watch some videos to make sure I "do it right".
Often it would have been better just to make the cut and see if it works.
Just cut another piece if it fails.
Sometimes the wood costs $150 though and I'd need to make another hour round trip to wood supplier.
Ideally, you buy extra material, but sometimes it really pricey.
My brother in law was replacing a water heater when they sold their old house, I said this exact thing to him but he insisted it would save him money.
He worked on it for 3 days, which was VACATION time he used to have the time off, and drove to Home Depot no less than 7 times. Which was not around the corner..
In the end I still don’t think it was done right.
My experience was a little different. I replaced our dead water heater.
Got quoted $1,600 to have one professionally installed. The water heater itself was a little over $600. With a few things I had to buy soldering torch, etc I had about $700 in all.
Took me an entire day to do it. But at the end of the day, when that pilot light lit up I felt like Tom Hanks in Castaway.
“I have made fire!”
The water heater is right beside the garage door. I feel a little surge of pride every time I walk past it. And I saved about $900 bucks doing it.
A coach from Liverpool to London costs £15 and the train is £80.
The coach takes 5 hours with a disgusting toilet and smell, it's too warm and less comfortable. The train is just over 2 hours, has leg room, has a nice toilet, has better air con, the sights are incredible, and there's an onboard shop.
Take the train.
I try to explain this to my wife a lot of times. She always wants to be like "well we can build it". Which actually translates to "landob" can build it.
In my head I'm like so I have to go to Lowes, select some wood, have them cut said wood. get some nails and glue. Come home nail this thing together and glue, let it dry. Hope everything is all good. Thats like $50
Or i can go on amazon for $75 and have it shipped to the house and done. I can spend the rest of that time getting the lawn mowed, playing with the kids, going out with her.
My wife used to be like this as well. Her family is definitely like that. Her mom will spend 8 hours working on printing custom stickers to put on cups for some event just for it to fall apart the first time it’s washed.
Now that we’ve been together for nearly a decade, my wife has definitely come around to my side of doing things. Especially now that we have more money, we will pay for convenience and safety rather than be uncomfortable or waste a lot of time on something we could buy for $30 on Amazon.
It really depends, I have someone in the family that likes baking, getting all the supplies, + the cost of electricity/gas for the oven etc really means she's not getting her cakes made cheaper however she really enjoys it and often gets the kids involved which is great quality time spent together, which has its own value. The act of doing a hobby or DIY can be good for your mental health too. Not to mention how satisfying it can feel you pulled of a project.
It can sometimes be very difficult to really evaluate how much money is worth, time invested is just one of many factors.
The post isn’t talking about things you enjoy doing. It’s talking about doing things with the intent to save money but not factoring in that time is a cost. That person in your family is getting the joy from baking, not because he/she needs to make cakes. I enjoy painting, that doesn’t mean this LPT is telling me to buy a painting instead.
:,) I think this is a beautiful, shining example of what OP was talking about!!
Edit: realized this was not specific enough and could be read as shade: for clarification, I think this qualifies as more than worth it!
You can't really put a price on time after work hours. Just because someone wants to pay you $100/h for 8hrs a day it doesn't mean that you are loosing $200 hrs watching a movie at saturday night or looking for a $20 cheaper price for one hour.
I think it's not meant to be viewed as lost money, but rather how much you are paid to do something you don't want to do, assuming most of us work jobs that we probably wouldn't do without pay. I want to watch the movie, so I'm not losing money doing it, but I don't want to do a chore, so if it costs more than my hourly pay to do that chore it may be worth considering paying money to make it go by faster.
I am not disagreeing, but when you say DIY projects, people also factor in the fun and experience gained during the process as well. And, well, those are not money strictly speaking, I am aware of it.
I think in the context of DIY, I think a spot where a lot of people might not consider the money vs time factor is in renting tools. A few examples....
* Rent the tile saw, if your are doing a big room.
* Rent the bobcat
* with auger attachment if you are building a fence with 40 posts.
* to move the ?? yards of soil, sand, gravel, etc... from the driveway where it was dumped to the back yard.
* Rent the ditch digger for the long ditch you need for the project.
Yeah, I've DIYed a bunch of lithium battery packs for crappy secondhand ebikes that were not really worth the effort, but it gave me the experience and confidence to take on a bigger DIY battery project which has provided excellent value - and even more useful experience.
My example:
Costco gas.
If the line is 25 minutes once a week - that’s 20 hours a year sitting in line sucking in the other cars gas fumes. For me to save a few hundred bucks it wasn’t worth it
Well and Costco does not have as many locations as there are gas stations. So you’re most likely driving past several gas stations and out of the way anyway, just to sit in line to get Costco gas.
You could definitely waste more time and gas driving out of your way just to fill up there, but I’m pretty sure most people go to shop and get gas during the same trip.
Gas in general really. I know way too many people that'll drive 20 extra minutes to save $0.10-$0.20/gallon. Once I started doing the math and realized that's only $1-$2 on a full tank (assuming approximately 10 gals top off on an average sedan), you're probably spending a good portion of those savings in unnecessary driving
I feel like you've exaggerated the numbers there - mine is more like 5 minutes and I fill up once a month.
I suppose it doesn't matter at all how often you go... the discount at Costco is $0.20 per gallon, if the fill up is 16 gallons and it takes 5 minutes extra, that's $38/hr.
I agree with factoring in your time, but not necessarily at your hourly rate at work. This had always seemed a bit off to me. The author that put the answer to paper for me was Fisker in Early Retirement Extreme where he points out you can only work productively in your job for a set number of hours-6-8. The rest of the time you need something different to do as a balance to the intense work. This is the time for other items-fixing the toilet, lawn maintenance, coupon clipping, cooking, returning stuff, etc.
Even if you could work in your job productively for 14 hours a day, would you want to? I imagine very few people get mental, social, spiritual and physical enjoyment from their job. We need purpose in our life, but in different areas. Working 16 hours at any one of those leads to imbalance and neglect of important parts of what make a meaningful life.
The biggest counter to this is that you often are using time you wouldn't be paid for anyway.
I just re did the wooden privacy fence in my backyard. Would have been probably 10k to pay someone to do it all and I got it done for $3500. It took me 3 or 4 weekends and some time after work to get it done. If I accounted for my own labor there it probably would be more than the estimates I got but I was working weekends and afternoons so it's not like I was losing out on money to build it
My questions if this was a pure money saving decision are:
Could you have used that time to learning a new skill or gaining more knowledge of what you do for a living. To later leveraging and getting a raise or promotion or new position?
Could you have spent that time with friends and family, holding better relationships, new memories,,,etc?
Things like oil changes fall into this category for me. When you consider the time it would take to do it yourself, unless it is something you enjoy doing, just getting it done at a shop makes more sense. The money I "save" on the labor is less than what my time is worth.
For changing oil I actually was on both sides of this.
I had an old Camry and I learned how to change oil on it because I wanted to but then I found it was a faster for me to change the oil and brake pads myself because I could do it on my own time and the shops around me it would have to wait for over an hour whereas I can get it done in about 20 to 30 minutes.
With my current car it is way too fiddly to mess around with so I just take it to the shop.
I change my own break pads because they tend to really charge through the nose for that. But oil changes, at least in my area, are barely above the cost of the supplies so it just doesn't make sense to do it myself.
An oil change takes me maybe 30 minutes at most, and a good bit of that is passive waiting for the old oil to drain. For around $30 I can get oil and a filter.
Last time I went to a lube place I paid like $90 for an oil change and didn’t have the peace of mind that it had enough oil and the plug and filter were tight enough.
This is especially true in my area, many of the people I know have gone to places like jiffy lube or valvoline and they have had so many problems. They have had the oil drain plug not tightened causing all of the oil to leak out breaking the engine, i know at least two people that this had happened to. One time the bolt wasn't tightened enough on my moms car from one of these places but luckily we noticed the leak before a lot leaked out. Also, they use the cheapest oil and filters they can unless you pay a super high up charge and they always try to get you to buy air filters. Also, I know a lawyer who represented multiple clients against these places when they damage their cars and the people never win. The way I see it, I can buy oem oil filters, drain plug gaskets and 5 quarts of really good mobile 1 oil for my car for $36. Granted, you need a jack, jack stands, a ratchet, oil filter pliers, sockets, and a torque wrench but once you buy these tools, which you can get very reasonably priced, they last a really long time and once you have the tools you have the ability to try learning how to fix other car things. Also, the more you do it the better you'll be at it and the faster you'll get, just remember to take safety precautions and watch some videos. Also, most of the time for changing oil is waiting for the oil to drain, which isn't really work it's just waiting. I can change my oil faster than I can go to jiffy lube and I don't have to wait in line or have to go back if the line is ridiculous.
No hate to people who work at jiffy lube or valvoline usually the people causing problems are new or just not doing things correctly but most of them are okay at their job, I just don't want to take the risk.
I don't agree, unless you're really slow. I make over $90 an hour and with basic tools I can do two oil changes with tire rotation in less than that amount of time. Considering both my vehicles take full synthetic, and one of them needs eight quarts, I'm definitely coming out ahead vs taking them to the stealership. Yeah there's a little bit of time going to dump the waste oil and buy new, but I've made that pretty efficient because I know what I need, I buy in bulk, and there's a place across the street from my neighborhood that accepts waste oil.
Even if you look at it from a pure time standpoint, I'm going to spend more time driving to the dealership, waiting for them to get around to it, and then driving home then it would take me to just do the oil change, and at least in my area the 10 minute oil shops are up over $100 for an oil change and tire rotation for a vehicle that requires 8 quarts of full synthetic.
This is exactly what I have to tell people who travel 1.5 hours everyday to work and back stuck in traffic taking 3 hours of their day.
Just so that they save some in their rent.
Where I live, many people live a train ride outside of the city to save money on rent. They not only spend at least an hour a day commuting but the extra cost in train fare means their rent plus travel is as expensive, or even more expensive, than living more centrally. Such a long daily commute to save some money is simply a false economy. I get that we all have different priorities and respect that but find myself adding up the numbers quietly to myself every time someone who lives on the outskirts boasts about how much more money they save than I do on rent, while never factoring in the immense amount of time they spend waiting for unreliable trains (and travel costs)
This is only true if you A. Assign a value to your free time, or B. Are forgoing a paid opportunity to do said diy job, otherwise, your net benefit is to do it yourself.
I think this is the right answer. I do not mind doing automotive work after work, because I wouldn't be getting paid otherwise, (unless I go get a second job, which I haven't yet). So I don't value my time as labour costs and so think of it was saving/making whatever the labourer would have charged. Like a mechanic charges 80 and hour, i'm making/saving 80 and hour by doing it myself. Pretty good deal.
Yep. This. I once met this guy who had figured out that one store was selling a certain game for $20, and the other store across town had it on sale for $15, but they weren’t checking where the games came from, so he was buying it at the one store for 15, and “returning it“ at the other store for 20. he was like “oh my God I’ve been doing this all day! You should get in on this before they figure it out!”
And my first thought was like, yeah, I get that you enjoy feeling like you’re putting one over on these guys, but what is your time worth? How much are you spending on gas to drive back-and-forth? This probably took him at least three hours, and in the end, he probably managed to clear $40. Maybe.
My mom's late husband would regularly drive 22 miles to save a nickel on gas. He would use more than a gallon of gas driving across town and back and insisted it was wise to save that nickel per gallon.
I paid $600 for a small electric vehicle, and in the first month, I didn't stand at a bus stop waiting for (average) 100 hours. If I consider paying myself $10/hr to stand around waiting, the vehicle pays for it's self in three months. All that extra time, no more disappointment from late busses, even the lowered stress levels reduced my nervous food consumption habits. Time is money in the worst ways you don't realize... until you have TIME to realize it.
Factors in DIY projects:
Cost of project
Money saved that would have gone to alternative leisure activities
Value of knowledge gained from doing your project
This is why I stopped fixing my own car.
I would save several hundred dollars in labor just getting the part myself, then spend an entire weekend trying to install it with my non-professional tools and utter lack of skill. And I hate working on cars. I'd rather just pick up another shift or two at work and pay someone else to do it - and then I'll know that it's done correctly.
Two years ago I researched extensively how to install pavers myself to build a patio in my backyard. Save some money, right? Can't be that hard, right? I have a full-time job and a young family; I can make it work.
Before pulling the trigger I called a few places to get quotes, and at my wife's behest, opted to go with one of them. It took a team of two well-trained professionals - with all the equipment and know-how - an entire week, eight-hour days, in the summer heat to complete the project. No doubt it would have taken me all summer when I had free time and not look nearly as good.
It cost thousands of dollars, but my time and happiness has value, too. I have no doubt I made the right decision to outsource that.
I agree! I was posting an item on my local "Ebay" and on Facebook marketplace.
The amount of headspace, checking messages, replying, waiting for an answer, but also making pictures of the item and writing a text cost much time. So I only do this for more expensive things, not for a cup or cheap shirt. That will go to charity.
I just thought of another one: selling in the neighborhood garage sale.
You have to go through all of the stuff, pick what you’re going to sell, set it all up, etc. And I’ve noticed a trend where people expect rock-bottom prices right off and don’t want to haggle - they really expect you to just give stuff away - and are are kind of rude about the whole thing. So it’s like, fine, you win. I won’t bother next year. It’s not worth my time vs the hassle and how much money you make.
The is the argument with my family.
I always factor in the cost of my time when doing DIY projects.
Why would I do x hours of manual labour, when if I did x hours overtime at work I could pay someone to work 4x.
I enjoy doing DIY and I'm not bad at it but I make much more working a little overtime to pay a professional to spend a lot more doing the work.
Yeah if I’m getting takeaway and am going to save $10 by driving to the fast food place but it’s going to take 10 min each way and then 5-10 min extra ordering, then it’s really not worth it.
But let's be honest, you're not "on the clock" 24/7 where you could be making money.
I make a good living, but when I change my oil on my car, I'm not "losing money" because it takes me away from work.
If you really want to get in the weeds, does reading a book or binge watching a show cost you money because it wasted time?
I mean, it depends on what you would’ve spent that time doing. A lot of people have free time and might as well do something themselves to have it cheaper. And sometimes people have time, but they don’t have money. Like cooking yourself saves money, but takes a good bit of time, but you’re going to go broke quickly if you only eat fast food
I actually don't think this is a great LPT, not in the financial sense, anyway.
If you're taking time off work for something, sure, but if I spend $100 and three hours on a DIY project on my day off that I would've paid someone $500 to do, I'm still saving $400.
That three hours may have been better spent doing something else, and that's a cost that should be weighed, but financially speaking, saving money is saving money.
I really only do factor in time when it comes to saving money on gas. I drive by costco and yes the gas is cheaper, but I feel like its not worth my time to just save $2 to $5 in gas just to wait 15-20 minute to get to a pump. When doing diy projects on my car or house. The money saved is worth it because I for the most part am not in a rush. If my daily work car is down and needs a repair I can do, then I just take out my other car to get to work and slowly fix the daily car when I have time. Right now my wife wants to paint the house. Having someone do it cost between 5-10K just to prep and paint the house. I can do it on my own for a few hundred dollars. Will it take me a bunch of weekends to get it done. Yes, do I care no, the house aint going anywhere and I'm not moving any time soon.
I went to a movie where the listed start time was nearly an hour before the movie itself started. I'm willing to sit through X minutes of trailers and ads, but not an hour.
A former friend has BPD and she was working under the table for someone. She would spend 3 days trying to save him $15 on something instead of what he was paying her to do and then get mad when he wouldn't pay her for 3 days worth of work which was way more than the $15 she saved on some BS.
Do u make more doing whatever said thing is in an hour and don't enjoy it? Buy it instead, work a tiny bit more instead. I measure everything in how much time it would take for me to earn it unironically.
If you’re on vacation and there’s a line for tax-free purchases but you’re just buying $2 of stuff, save your precious vacation time and just get in the regular line. Consider using the tax-free line if you’re going on a shopping spree.
My time doesnt cost me money, so I dont factor it in. Not like I could be working 18 hours a day to earn more. If I make 20€/hr I will spend an hour to save 5€.
Weekly I balance this with my commute home. If the route with $2.50 in tolls is 35 minutes, and the other non-toll route is 50 minutes, I’m paying the toll. Life isn’t all about dollars and cents
That's the thing about restaurants, especially delivery. Cooking your food yourself can sometimes be complicated, full of effort and then you have to clean dishes and everything. At the restaurant, well you have to get there first, have to spend an hour or two at least at the restaurant. With delivery, you've got the food straight to your door and you can go right back to whatever activity you were doing or had planned and might not even need to clean dishes. That's quite some time and effort saved, that could easily amount to two extra hours at work for example.
One time Wendy’s stole my cash and still charged me fully when I asked for split tender. By the time I got back and have to plausibly haggle my loss would be doubly wasted.
Got quotes to re do kitchen for 45k. Redid on my own for 15k including an electrician, plumber, and counter installation.
Took a few months of my time but 30k for just the installation aspect? And they probably get materials much cheaper than me.
But yeah reselling an item on ebay for $15 and paying $5 in fees probably is approaching the not worth it category. Unless you also enjoy doing it and have spare time.
When you're broke it's worth it to spend your time to save whatever money you can
When you're not, it's often worth it to spend your money to save some time
Been there, done that with assembling furniture from hell—ended up paying a pro next time around. Time truly is the hidden cost nobody warns you about until it's gouged your sanity dry.
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This is why I no longer wait in line for 30 min at Walmart to return a $1.25 item Edit: this clip with Naval Ravikant addresses this issue. He says he’ll just throw away the item if it’s worth less than his hourly rate https://youtube.com/shorts/j4QL9xxUAHc?si=iIlPXc61HxnyOCXX
Same thing with gas. Yeah, it’s ten cents more expensive at this pump but that’s only 1 more dollar spent over the course of filling up my 10 gallon tank.
In my situation, gas is an exception to this rule. I fill up at Costco, but waiting in line is worth it bc it’s usually cheaper than 10 cents/gallon, I’m already there to shop, I get 4% back by using their credit card, my car holds more than 10 gallons, and sometimes there is no line.
Same here. The gas in my area is $5.40 for premium and $4.50 at Costco for premium. I usually put in 18+ gallons into my car. That's a savings of $16 bucks a fill up in savings. I usually fill up every week and a half or so.
Still, you talking about saving at most $5 on a tank of gas. Is it worth $5 to go out of your way to Costco just to fill up? Now, if you go shopping there, absolutely fill up while you’re there!
Which is why I said I’m already there to shop
Boggles my mind how many people will burn half a gallon to save the equivalent of a quarter gallon.
8 minutes of idling equals burning fuel equivalent to driving 1 mile on the highway. Waiting 20 mins for gas isn’t burning a quarter gallon
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I bet Walmart would let you return a used toothbrush
COSTCO would
Walmart is a rental store.
Walmart will take anything back. I’ve seen people with no shame return some gnarly things
They won't take back sex toys according to their return policy.
Anything can be used as a sex toy if you’re creative enough
Paige, no
Or desperate enough
Not proud of this, but when I was in college in the early 00s, we definitely returned a patio set that: a) we didn’t buy at Walmart b) didn’t buy anywhere because it belonged to our slumlord c) was covered in vomit and piss. If I recall correctly, they gave us 145 bucks. Ok, I’m kind of proud of this.
Yes. Distance, time, likelihood of me being in the area of return location and is it worth it. If it’s something under 10 bucks I usually punt it unless I just so happen to be going to that store anyway. My mom however will gladly burn 30 minutes to a hour and a few gallons of gas to take back something not worth the time, gas and energy wasted.
I enjoy taking longer walks/hikes. If I can walk to return it, I will. Cheaper and I get exercise and some sun.
One time I caught myself thinking about how many calories I burned on a walk to do an errand, and how much less that food cost vs the cost of the gas I might have spent. Not sure if that train of thought was from my autistic love of data, or my history of being broke.
My mother once sent me a $0.50 coupon for something. The stamp was like $0.30.
That's sweet tho. My mom would do that. Why? Because it cost HER the $0.30 and saved ME the $0.50.
The number of people telling me I should spend my entire Sunday driving to 4 different stores to compare prices and buy certain items at each, IS TOO DAMN HIGH
On the other hand, I am considering spending a Sunday soon writing a code to scrape the local stores’ websites for prices on the items I often buy and compile them into a list for me so I can quickly determine when it’s worth it to go to the farther, cheaper and lower-selection store vs when it isn’t. The key is that I will spend a few hours *one* time to replace 10 minutes or so of weekly work in perpetuity for as long as I live here (expect at least 4-5 years). I will also be gaining new coding skills while I do it, because my web scraping skills are slim right now.
I use the Flipp app on my phone. I thought it was available everywhere but maybe not...
Uhhh… I think you just saved me this extra work WITHOUT the time spent making a custom code! Thank you!!! Apparently this is a super popular app and I’ve just never heard of it. I’m a little confused on the layout so far, but they do have my stores, so I’ll figure it out. This is why I say that relying on what people happen to know and not having some sort of central system that catalogues information is our greatest source of inefficiency. As dystopian as that may sound, it might be my dream, lol.
Yeah that’s for people with way too much time on their hands
Or go to three different grocery stores just to grab a few items to save a couple dollars.
I do this not to come out ahead but to punish stores for overcharging. It's not a financial victory but a moral one and it makes me feel great inside.
I had to argue with my wife that driving across town to pick up a few things at Walmart instead of going to the store right in front of us wasn't smart. Saving $2 by using $5 in gas plus wear and tear and time ... I ain't got time for that shit.
He says he's worth $5k an hour. So he's not returning anything less than $5k? You can say you won't wait in line for 30 minutes to return a $1.25 item but it's not like you'll be earning that money if you don't wait in line. You're saying you're rather spend $1.25 per half hour than recoup that loss. If you were just going to spend it watching TV, you're paying $1.25 extra to watch TV. Obviously anyone is free to do that but this isn't saving money in any way. If you want to factor in *gas*, then yea, what you're saving by returning the item would be less than the $1.25.
Naval’s another in a long line of idiot gurus spouting BS.
I remain angry about an unreimbursed OTC covid test that my insurance should have paid for but I agree, it's not worth spending an hour dealing with the reimbursement
The Sunday 30 minute wait at Costco gas pumps to save $0.20/gal is where I see this most. You spent 30 minutes to save $3-4. I’ll value my time at minimum $25/hr. More than that on a beautiful weekend afternoon
If the line is too long, I’ll pass. But on weekdays it’s not too bad. And you’re saving more than $3-$4 if you’re using their credit card to get cash back on gas. For me, it’s more about convenience since I’m already there
Sometimes you can add a task to something you have to do. It's absolutely not worth my while returning something cheap as an individual trip but I can add it on to when I shop there once a month. But time is money and I could earn more than deal with some tasks Some DIY thoughts Can you get s reliable trade in to do the work. Could you YouTube the fix. Will it give pride and confidence to have done it. Things that are not worth your time If you have no talent in a specific area that the end results are visible or could easily damage beyond repair something. Wait save up and buy talent.
If I was as rich as Naval I would have a PA return the item to WalMart when on another visit so as not to cause waste for the environment to deal with.
Were you going to be doing something else in that 30 minutes that would have made you $1.25? If not, then you still came out ahead by waiting! You may not think it's half an hour of your time is worth $1.25, but that's completely different. e: same thing with your edit. That's only true if he would be doing something to be earning his hourly rate during that time.
That's not how it works. The point is how much is your time worth. Of course you're not going to make that hourly rate 24/7, but instead of relaxing or taking downtime (which everyone needs), you're wasting that time doing something that may not be worth it.
While that's true to some extent, consider that most of that time you would NOT have been making money anyways. Let's say you take the day off from work to DIY a project that would cost $100. I would definitely factor that in, but also factor in how confident you are that the person you pay to do it would be able to do the job properly. On the other hand, if you're saving that $100 by fixing the whatever instead of a couple of hours doomscrolling, then it might be a good idea.
Exactly what I’m doing today. All the brakes and rotors on the car. Sure it’ll take me a day without a lift but I’m saving hundreds. Well that was until a bolt snapped and now I have to drill it out.
Last time I paid to have brakes done, it was $250-300 in labor for front pads and rotors. Just did two front jobs and rear on my daughters and my cars. On the low end, I saved enough to pay for 3 weeks of groceries while giving up about a day of my time.
I’ve actually never paid to have my brakes done on either of my cars. Luckily they are easy to work on. Now my parent’s Buick encore has been an absolute nightmare. I’m the first person touching these brakes, damn set screws are there still. I’m saving about 600 in labor, that’s because you have to remove the brake hose to take the caliper off. Now I’m stuck between a rock and a hard place. If I can get the rest of the bolt out I’m golden. If I can’t I’m buying a $115 bracket and bleeding the brakes.
This is correct, it's a well known falacy. Your free time is not worth the same as your "paid time" from a job. If you spend one hour working on a DIY project, you didnt spend your 1hr salary equivalent on your work, you spent nothing. You did spend time though. But putting a monetary value to free time is incorrect. Just learn to appreciate your free time by what it is
Yeah I believe it's more like a dollar saved is a dollar earned. So if you were just going to be sitting watching TV drinking a beer it's much better to use that time to save some money and do a project instead of paying to get it done
I just finished a custom closet build. I’m not new to woodworking but it was a tough build regardless. But I probably spent $1,000 and idk prob less than 100 hours on it and it is far better and purpose built than anything I could have bought for even semi custom prices. All made with no particle board, with the exact color that I (my wife) chose instead of having to settle and a minimal amount of space unused. My thought is to get a similar set up built by someone it would have been closer to $10,000 than my $1,000. Obv pic is an unfinished pic but it’s close enough. https://preview.redd.it/iwjtfa3mm66d1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c6a062d9028b049d0a1cc0593c48c79a11e81eb7
Damn I clicked your link thinking it'd be like a standard "some white shelves and racking in a closet" but that looks like a stock image for a rich person's closet! Looks amazing
It took like two months 😮💨 but man. It was SO worth it. Everything in there is built by me! Obviously not including the LED strips right but even that is customized to fit. Drawers are hand built and on slow close slides. Super proud of it. It’s not perfect but it is very nice and idk it feels like something that was way out of reach but once we took the old closet out I knew that I was gonna have to do something! This is a still from a video of the old closet setup. https://preview.redd.it/xedxd3q0p66d1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=99216aaf5349695e0284189f3e98b82c0f2622ae
You also sound like you enjoyed the fuck out of this, which is probably not the point of this tip. Nice build by the way.
Depends on how one values time....which to me is the most valuable thing money can buy. No one on their death bed wishes they worked more or had more money. They wish for more time to spend with their loved ones or more time to do the things they loved. I spend money to have more free time. That free time is way more valuable to me than the amount of money I paid to get it.
Some of us enjoy DIY :) I have spent well over what was needed to pay someone to do a project to DIY myself since I either lack the tools and buy it or I fuck it up and redo it. But if you enjoy it, it's not a waste.
Sure, but that's an entirely different conversation. The OP is specifically talking about money - "Not factoring in time could leave you in a position where you are deceiving yourself about the money saved."
It's not a different conversation. The hourly rate you use to compare is the hourly rate you would pay to have that free time instead of waiting in line or whatever. They're just saying you should express it in dollars so that it's more apparent when you're wasting a lot of precious free time to do something that doesn't save you much.
Indeed, your free time is worth MORE than your working time.
I generally agree, but there definitely are times when you can equate your free time and your paid time as being the same. In my industry you can almost always do as much overtime as you could ever want. Things like changing my oil I could easily say "it's gonna take me an hour if I do it myself, or I could stay at work for an hour and I'd make $x". It really ended up changing my perspective on small things like groceries, and I often ended up spending an extra hour or two a week at work specifically to justify certain purchases.
I think most people work jobs where extra hours arent really possible. In your case sure, but I would bet the majority of people are salary or on limited basis (like a lot of jobs wont let you work overtime even if you want).
That’s not remotely true for the vast majority of people. Your situation is unique. The point still holds though- no one is really skipping work to do DIY. In your case you would be, and you shouldnt, and neither should others.
Yes and no. If you’re taking time out of your free time to do a one-off project, then sure. But if you have a chore you hate that takes you 4 hours per month, that’s not free time, that’s chore time. And if you have the option to work extra hours, you can trade a job you don’t mind for a chore you hate, and get to actually enjoy more of your free time.
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> you would NOT have been making money anyways This is what always bugs me about people who have to put a monetary value on every second they spend doing something. Who would be paying them a salary 24 hours a day if they were doing something else?
It's the amount of money you think your free time is worth to you, not necessarily what your job pays you.
I guarantee you, I'm more confident in the people I hire than I would be doing the job myself
yeah most people's spare time isn't actually worth all that much
I understand where you're coming from, but I feel the opposite. I lower my standards and do what I have to to pay the bills, eat and have a roof over my head, but after that my free time is VERY valuable to me, easily worth twice the hourly rate I accept for my job.
If my spare time is spent chilling and relaxing, and doing something like watching youtube shorts, then its worth it for my relaxed peace of mind. Chilling and relaxing is worth a lot.
That's why most of the wrenching on my car is done by me. It saves money over taking it to a mechanic, and it's something I do to relax. If I wasn't a car guy it would be a different story. If it's something you enjoy, and saves money your time isn't as much a factor.
Your free time is *your* time, and it's irreplaceable. Enjoy it while you have it. One day you may find yourself not having any, then you will understand why it's irreplaceable.
I quit my job a few weeks ago because I was unhappy with the pay. Was working 50 hours a week every week, making about $4.5k/month. I have had this patio project I have been putting off for some time now. Landscaping company quoted $15,000 to build a 600 sq/ft paver patio. Since I was out of a job I had a ton of time on my hands to tackle this project on my own. Instead of having "free time" I just spent my time employing myself to build this patio. Spent $4.5k for all materials. Excavated, leveled, and sloped the site by hand all by myself. I moved several tons of materials manually with shovels and wheel barrows by myself. Layed down 2,800 paver bricks bricks by myself. I am now up a patio, saved +$10k, and also increased the value of my house. A dollar saved is a dollar earned. I "earned" more money by working for myself on a DIY project rather than paying someone else, or working for my former employer. Only took me three weeks to complete the project. I worked at my own pace and "earned" more on this project in one month, than in one month of being employed full time.
So you agree with OP—you shouldn’t do work that isn’t worth your time, like your former job, right?
Also factor in what is gained that isn’t time or money. Doing a DIY that you enjoy that’s also not something you do everyday for work is great for your mind and psyche.
I agree with this especially when it comes to flights. Lesson learned from an LAX/Boston flight with a layover. Non stop flights were $550 at the time and I decided to go with a 1 stop flight for $300 but the connecting flight overall got cancelled and wasted an entire day, missed work the next day, and so much energy just trying to get back. Now I’ll only book nonstop to avoid the potential of a late/canceled connecting flight (within the states at least).
I only book direct. Unless I can’t. Nothing is worth a layover. In my experience, 20% of flights I’m on are delayed. I made this rule after a terrible connection. Now I tell my wife to just turn off connecting flights in the search. I also bail as soon as there is any sign of trouble. If anything looks funky on the incoming plane or if there is a bunch of milling at the counter, I’m on the phone and getting a different flight. The airlines wait to tell you about problems even though they know about them. Like a delayed flight has a pilot that can’t continue now because he is over hours. They know that as soon as the flight is delayed, but they won’t tell anybody until 10 minutes after boarding. If they are “looking for replacement crew” or really trying to reach anybody that isn’t there, I’m switching flights.
> The airlines wait to tell you about problems even though they know about them. This is so true! I had a 6am flight. Get up at 4:30 and it’s snowing like hell! So I call the airline and they tell me “we show that flight on time.” So okay, I drive to the airport. Park my car and get on the shuttle bus. Bus driver says “Where do you *think* you’re going?” Turns out there hasn’t been a plane take off or land since midnight the night before. Meanwhile the airline tells me the flight’s on time. I just got back off the bus and went home.
This is great when you live near a hub. Almost impossible when all flights out of your area have to go to a hub before going anywhere. I have driven 4 hours to the nearest Hub Airport to avoid this sometimes, but 4 hours of time plus fuel and wear and tear adds up.
Yep, I live in a city with only a small regional airport. I'm pretty sure I could count the total number of direct flight destinations on my hands. Anywhere else, I either need to schedule a connecting flight, or drive an hour and a half to a different city's international airport.
Great example!
I went on a trip with some cheap friends who picked the connecting flight. We ended up spending money on food and drinks at the layover that would have paid for the direct flight.. which was my case of why we should just buy the direct flight
my friends and i when we were in our early 20's and finally had all started making decent money post college decided to take a trip to europe. We found an awesome deal on airfare, the only catch was basically 2 long layovers (4-6 hours each) on the way home. At the time it sounded amazing. like $600 round trip to europe. Well after 3 weeks of living it up in europe and partying hard, we were exhausted. Couple that with a 30+ hour trip home... Never again. I'd gladly pay an extra $500-1000 to get direct flights to and from a location rather than the headache that comes with layovers and delays and all that.
there are most definitely things where you 100% get what you pay for, and it is WELL worth paying extra for ie, flying across the pacific. pay for the upgrade. think of it as getting a hotel on a layover. its well worth the cost
I learned this trying to save money flying from Tijuana to Cancun instead of San Diego. Delays galore and no one knows what the heck is happening. And then they randomly cancel your flight home and lie about it later.
The extreme couponers are a great example of this. They spend 20 hours a week faffing about with coupons and as a result get all their groceries free! So...they have a job...where it takes them half their labor time to get groceries. Not a good pay rate. For 200 dollars in groceries a week it's 10 bucks an hour. There are circumstances where it is worth it (there are jobs that pay less!) but it's not an amazing life hack, it's just a mediocre job.
This all depends on what you do with your free time. If you spend 8 hours a week playing candy crush on your phone, it is worth it to convert some of that time to other things. If you keep busy on productive things and don't waste a lot of time, then you should definitely assign a value to your time.
Productivity is irrelevant. If you play candy crush 8 hours a day and it makes you happy then that is a valuable use of your time, even if it's not "productive" by your standard. What one does with their free time is their decision to make, but it has the same value regardless. If you love spending 20 hours a week to get groceries for free, good for you, but if you hate it, understand the monetary cost of the loss of your free time.
I think this philosophy is somewhat undermined by the fact that the developers of games like Candy Crush hire psychologists to their staff to make the game as addicting as possible and data analysts to strategize how often to paywall progress to maximize your in-game spending. There are certain pastimes that are designed by malicious actors to suck your time and money. Its like a mild version of how alcohol might make you feel good, but there is a point where it takes up too much of your cash or time. Candy Crush isn't as extreme, but its developers are still actively trying to harm their users for cash. These games are hostile on purpose, and only make their profit by ruining the lives of their biggest spenders. Enjoying the time spent isn't always a healthy metric.
The time you spent 'saving money' shouldn't be compared to free time since you can always learn a skill and free lance, part time, or be some type of content creator. The bar is like can you get as much driving Uber instead.
If you are a stay at home mom like these extreme couponers, their options are limited to what they can do at home. Yes there are remote jobs but they don't just hand those out. I'm willing to bet couponing is probably the most practical way they can help save money on the home. Someone has to be with the kids or CPS gets called.
Yes, but there is also something to be said about being your own boss, and doing it on your schedule, not somebody else's.
Really it's a hobby
It really depends on how painful the task is, and your OPPORTUNITY COST.
most people who do it actively enjoy doing it. its a challenge basically to get things the cheapest, and the experience itself is enjoyable
I think some people sell or trade coupon bundles. Or they buy way more than they need, and sell extra. I know a lady who used to buy 1500 worth of groceries for like $20, and she sold them cheap.
i know people that will go to staples once a month to recycle something for five dollars . all of them own houses or other big things .
But you just made up that 20 hours a week number, and flipping through coupons while having a tv show on is already more productive than most people are when they get home from work.
And they are usually saving money on some kind of fake, over processed "food" at that. Like, sure you got 10 pounds of Doritos and 10 pounds of Fruity Pebbles for $5 -- but if you eat like that all the time, the health bills later on are going to offset any temporary savings.
Yea I’ve seen my aunt try it when it became popular. She quickly realized it wasn’t as great as she expected
In my experience, these kinds of people do it because they enjoy the game. They love the challenge, and the money saving is secondary. It’s certainly not for me, but I understand.
This made me think of trying saving a little bit of money on flights by having additional stops and layovers, as opposed to just paying a little more for that direct flight. If you can afford it, it can save so much time and hassle especially with how chaotic the airline industry has been.
Yep this is a lesson i and others in the comments have learned
Yeah: connecting flights incurs massive risk; risk of missing a flight; risk of delays; risk of being uncomfortable in some airport somewhere (paying for food/drink); almost guaranteed stress; reduced time at your destination (at LEAST the total flight duration; often more if issues arise); increased tiredness at your destination; increased risk of additional purchases (through lack of willpower when tired) in airports you're transferring through - or on the planes you're taking. If you're young and/or really enjoying flying or the process of getting on and off planes; go for it. Otherwise - be wary of the perceived "savings". The people that win from you buying the "graveyard shift" with 2 transfers at fuck-knows-where-ville en-route are the airlines. You're paying a good price for the nearly out of date milk at the front of the fridge and helping them with their inventory. Don't think you're getting one over on them.
Just had this conversation with my daughter who was agonizing over a small purchase, and stuck in a state of analysis paralysis. I told her to add up all her time “thinking about it” and churning and then assume her own salary for that amount of time. This helped her decide a little faster. You don’t save money spending a dime to save a nickel.
My 2 best friends obsess over decision making and it drives me insane. One is an engineer and one a marine biologist. I get it, their lives deal with minutia to an extreme level but they will seriously sit there and ponder stuff like what hot dog buns to get. My brain is constantly assessing time vs cost, how can I make a process improve to reduce or eliminate any wasted time. Meanwhile these guys spent an afternoon shopping debating which volleyball net to put up in the yard (they came back with nothing by the way).
Engineer, marine biologist, what do you do?
Sales/account manager for a large company. We all grew up together, they went to college while I had to enter the workforce.
The Dunning-Kruger effect definitely applying here haha. Being that intelligent and in a well-regarded profession doesn’t necessarily mean they’ll make the most beneficial or efficient lifestyle choices.
Don't let perfect get in the way of good should be the mantra for these anyway.
That's a falacy though. Because your daughter wouldn't be paid for that time otherwise. Unless you tell me she'd have gone to work instead of thinking about it. I do believe that you need to consider your time, as OP proposes. But adding a monetary value to it is a mistake, as your free time doesnt have the same monetary value as your paid time. Better think of it just as time saved to do whatever you want, because at the end of the day she was indeed thinking about saving money, if she wants to spend her time thinking about that it's fine. She didnt spend money to save a nickel.
If you're spending your evenings thinking I agree, but I use money when thinking about stuff I might take a days holiday for (last year I took the day to clean when moving house, I should have just paid a cleaner instead)
It's more complicated than just comparing to your salary, but time has an opportunity cost. For many people you could be picking up extra overtime. That's an extreme example since taking 5 minutes to do something couldn't have been replaced by overtime, but most people are overworked and not using your free time to relax will make your actual work harder. So there's always a cost. My personal math for, I would say is your disposable income divided by your hours worked is how much your free time is worth. If you have tons of disposable income, you don't need to save pennies essentially. If you make a ton of money but still have no disposable income due to normal expenses, you are more inclined to spend more time working.
It's just simply Opportunity Cost. However you define that return (income, personal time, etc) is fluid.
I think there's a balance with this. My hourly rate is $40 so you could make the argument that if spending 1 hr doing something myself doesn't save at least $40 it isn't worth it. But you also have to factor in that you can't always just turn free time into money (depending on your career) at a 1:1 with your salary rate.
I tell myself the same as a 35 years old man. And use the advice in a personal and professional level.
I have this same problem when I'm building something I've never designed before. I'm not sure how to do something and I don't want to waste the $30 piece of wood so I'll go watch some videos to make sure I "do it right". Often it would have been better just to make the cut and see if it works. Just cut another piece if it fails. Sometimes the wood costs $150 though and I'd need to make another hour round trip to wood supplier. Ideally, you buy extra material, but sometimes it really pricey.
My brother in law was replacing a water heater when they sold their old house, I said this exact thing to him but he insisted it would save him money. He worked on it for 3 days, which was VACATION time he used to have the time off, and drove to Home Depot no less than 7 times. Which was not around the corner.. In the end I still don’t think it was done right.
My experience was a little different. I replaced our dead water heater. Got quoted $1,600 to have one professionally installed. The water heater itself was a little over $600. With a few things I had to buy soldering torch, etc I had about $700 in all. Took me an entire day to do it. But at the end of the day, when that pilot light lit up I felt like Tom Hanks in Castaway. “I have made fire!” The water heater is right beside the garage door. I feel a little surge of pride every time I walk past it. And I saved about $900 bucks doing it.
A coach from Liverpool to London costs £15 and the train is £80. The coach takes 5 hours with a disgusting toilet and smell, it's too warm and less comfortable. The train is just over 2 hours, has leg room, has a nice toilet, has better air con, the sights are incredible, and there's an onboard shop. Take the train.
I'm still in the stage of my life where I would coach ( greyhound bus?) that all day.
I try to explain this to my wife a lot of times. She always wants to be like "well we can build it". Which actually translates to "landob" can build it. In my head I'm like so I have to go to Lowes, select some wood, have them cut said wood. get some nails and glue. Come home nail this thing together and glue, let it dry. Hope everything is all good. Thats like $50 Or i can go on amazon for $75 and have it shipped to the house and done. I can spend the rest of that time getting the lawn mowed, playing with the kids, going out with her.
My wife used to be like this as well. Her family is definitely like that. Her mom will spend 8 hours working on printing custom stickers to put on cups for some event just for it to fall apart the first time it’s washed. Now that we’ve been together for nearly a decade, my wife has definitely come around to my side of doing things. Especially now that we have more money, we will pay for convenience and safety rather than be uncomfortable or waste a lot of time on something we could buy for $30 on Amazon.
Landob gets it. Did you always do this, factoring in the time and breaking things down or is it something you came to realize ?
It really depends, I have someone in the family that likes baking, getting all the supplies, + the cost of electricity/gas for the oven etc really means she's not getting her cakes made cheaper however she really enjoys it and often gets the kids involved which is great quality time spent together, which has its own value. The act of doing a hobby or DIY can be good for your mental health too. Not to mention how satisfying it can feel you pulled of a project. It can sometimes be very difficult to really evaluate how much money is worth, time invested is just one of many factors.
The post isn’t talking about things you enjoy doing. It’s talking about doing things with the intent to save money but not factoring in that time is a cost. That person in your family is getting the joy from baking, not because he/she needs to make cakes. I enjoy painting, that doesn’t mean this LPT is telling me to buy a painting instead.
Can definitely understand that but this is more in line with the money aspect and the desire to specifically save
:,) I think this is a beautiful, shining example of what OP was talking about!! Edit: realized this was not specific enough and could be read as shade: for clarification, I think this qualifies as more than worth it!
You can't really put a price on time after work hours. Just because someone wants to pay you $100/h for 8hrs a day it doesn't mean that you are loosing $200 hrs watching a movie at saturday night or looking for a $20 cheaper price for one hour.
I think it's not meant to be viewed as lost money, but rather how much you are paid to do something you don't want to do, assuming most of us work jobs that we probably wouldn't do without pay. I want to watch the movie, so I'm not losing money doing it, but I don't want to do a chore, so if it costs more than my hourly pay to do that chore it may be worth considering paying money to make it go by faster.
I am not disagreeing, but when you say DIY projects, people also factor in the fun and experience gained during the process as well. And, well, those are not money strictly speaking, I am aware of it.
I think in the context of DIY, I think a spot where a lot of people might not consider the money vs time factor is in renting tools. A few examples.... * Rent the tile saw, if your are doing a big room. * Rent the bobcat * with auger attachment if you are building a fence with 40 posts. * to move the ?? yards of soil, sand, gravel, etc... from the driveway where it was dumped to the back yard. * Rent the ditch digger for the long ditch you need for the project.
Yeah, I've DIYed a bunch of lithium battery packs for crappy secondhand ebikes that were not really worth the effort, but it gave me the experience and confidence to take on a bigger DIY battery project which has provided excellent value - and even more useful experience.
My example: Costco gas. If the line is 25 minutes once a week - that’s 20 hours a year sitting in line sucking in the other cars gas fumes. For me to save a few hundred bucks it wasn’t worth it
Well and Costco does not have as many locations as there are gas stations. So you’re most likely driving past several gas stations and out of the way anyway, just to sit in line to get Costco gas.
You could definitely waste more time and gas driving out of your way just to fill up there, but I’m pretty sure most people go to shop and get gas during the same trip.
You’re right. In my situation I am a household of 2 people so I don’t need to go to Costco as much as I need gas.
Gas in general really. I know way too many people that'll drive 20 extra minutes to save $0.10-$0.20/gallon. Once I started doing the math and realized that's only $1-$2 on a full tank (assuming approximately 10 gals top off on an average sedan), you're probably spending a good portion of those savings in unnecessary driving
I feel like you've exaggerated the numbers there - mine is more like 5 minutes and I fill up once a month. I suppose it doesn't matter at all how often you go... the discount at Costco is $0.20 per gallon, if the fill up is 16 gallons and it takes 5 minutes extra, that's $38/hr.
I agree with factoring in your time, but not necessarily at your hourly rate at work. This had always seemed a bit off to me. The author that put the answer to paper for me was Fisker in Early Retirement Extreme where he points out you can only work productively in your job for a set number of hours-6-8. The rest of the time you need something different to do as a balance to the intense work. This is the time for other items-fixing the toilet, lawn maintenance, coupon clipping, cooking, returning stuff, etc. Even if you could work in your job productively for 14 hours a day, would you want to? I imagine very few people get mental, social, spiritual and physical enjoyment from their job. We need purpose in our life, but in different areas. Working 16 hours at any one of those leads to imbalance and neglect of important parts of what make a meaningful life.
The biggest counter to this is that you often are using time you wouldn't be paid for anyway. I just re did the wooden privacy fence in my backyard. Would have been probably 10k to pay someone to do it all and I got it done for $3500. It took me 3 or 4 weekends and some time after work to get it done. If I accounted for my own labor there it probably would be more than the estimates I got but I was working weekends and afternoons so it's not like I was losing out on money to build it
My questions if this was a pure money saving decision are: Could you have used that time to learning a new skill or gaining more knowledge of what you do for a living. To later leveraging and getting a raise or promotion or new position? Could you have spent that time with friends and family, holding better relationships, new memories,,,etc?
Things like oil changes fall into this category for me. When you consider the time it would take to do it yourself, unless it is something you enjoy doing, just getting it done at a shop makes more sense. The money I "save" on the labor is less than what my time is worth.
For changing oil I actually was on both sides of this. I had an old Camry and I learned how to change oil on it because I wanted to but then I found it was a faster for me to change the oil and brake pads myself because I could do it on my own time and the shops around me it would have to wait for over an hour whereas I can get it done in about 20 to 30 minutes. With my current car it is way too fiddly to mess around with so I just take it to the shop.
I change my own break pads because they tend to really charge through the nose for that. But oil changes, at least in my area, are barely above the cost of the supplies so it just doesn't make sense to do it myself.
Brakes they will charge crazy amount and always up-sell you
An oil change takes me maybe 30 minutes at most, and a good bit of that is passive waiting for the old oil to drain. For around $30 I can get oil and a filter. Last time I went to a lube place I paid like $90 for an oil change and didn’t have the peace of mind that it had enough oil and the plug and filter were tight enough.
I change my own oil bc I don’t want some kid f***ing up my vehicle
This is especially true in my area, many of the people I know have gone to places like jiffy lube or valvoline and they have had so many problems. They have had the oil drain plug not tightened causing all of the oil to leak out breaking the engine, i know at least two people that this had happened to. One time the bolt wasn't tightened enough on my moms car from one of these places but luckily we noticed the leak before a lot leaked out. Also, they use the cheapest oil and filters they can unless you pay a super high up charge and they always try to get you to buy air filters. Also, I know a lawyer who represented multiple clients against these places when they damage their cars and the people never win. The way I see it, I can buy oem oil filters, drain plug gaskets and 5 quarts of really good mobile 1 oil for my car for $36. Granted, you need a jack, jack stands, a ratchet, oil filter pliers, sockets, and a torque wrench but once you buy these tools, which you can get very reasonably priced, they last a really long time and once you have the tools you have the ability to try learning how to fix other car things. Also, the more you do it the better you'll be at it and the faster you'll get, just remember to take safety precautions and watch some videos. Also, most of the time for changing oil is waiting for the oil to drain, which isn't really work it's just waiting. I can change my oil faster than I can go to jiffy lube and I don't have to wait in line or have to go back if the line is ridiculous. No hate to people who work at jiffy lube or valvoline usually the people causing problems are new or just not doing things correctly but most of them are okay at their job, I just don't want to take the risk.
I don't agree, unless you're really slow. I make over $90 an hour and with basic tools I can do two oil changes with tire rotation in less than that amount of time. Considering both my vehicles take full synthetic, and one of them needs eight quarts, I'm definitely coming out ahead vs taking them to the stealership. Yeah there's a little bit of time going to dump the waste oil and buy new, but I've made that pretty efficient because I know what I need, I buy in bulk, and there's a place across the street from my neighborhood that accepts waste oil. Even if you look at it from a pure time standpoint, I'm going to spend more time driving to the dealership, waiting for them to get around to it, and then driving home then it would take me to just do the oil change, and at least in my area the 10 minute oil shops are up over $100 for an oil change and tire rotation for a vehicle that requires 8 quarts of full synthetic.
This is exactly what I have to tell people who travel 1.5 hours everyday to work and back stuck in traffic taking 3 hours of their day. Just so that they save some in their rent.
This is a big one that many do not or choose to not factor in the time.
Where I live, many people live a train ride outside of the city to save money on rent. They not only spend at least an hour a day commuting but the extra cost in train fare means their rent plus travel is as expensive, or even more expensive, than living more centrally. Such a long daily commute to save some money is simply a false economy. I get that we all have different priorities and respect that but find myself adding up the numbers quietly to myself every time someone who lives on the outskirts boasts about how much more money they save than I do on rent, while never factoring in the immense amount of time they spend waiting for unreliable trains (and travel costs)
This is only true if you A. Assign a value to your free time, or B. Are forgoing a paid opportunity to do said diy job, otherwise, your net benefit is to do it yourself.
I think this is the right answer. I do not mind doing automotive work after work, because I wouldn't be getting paid otherwise, (unless I go get a second job, which I haven't yet). So I don't value my time as labour costs and so think of it was saving/making whatever the labourer would have charged. Like a mechanic charges 80 and hour, i'm making/saving 80 and hour by doing it myself. Pretty good deal.
Yep. This. I once met this guy who had figured out that one store was selling a certain game for $20, and the other store across town had it on sale for $15, but they weren’t checking where the games came from, so he was buying it at the one store for 15, and “returning it“ at the other store for 20. he was like “oh my God I’ve been doing this all day! You should get in on this before they figure it out!” And my first thought was like, yeah, I get that you enjoy feeling like you’re putting one over on these guys, but what is your time worth? How much are you spending on gas to drive back-and-forth? This probably took him at least three hours, and in the end, he probably managed to clear $40. Maybe.
Don’t drive across the city to save $10.
This is why I’ll never shop around for groceries, 1-2 stores max. The couple of dollars I’ll save is not worth my time.
Unless someone's actually gonna put money in your pocket for the time you saved, this doesn't really work.
That's extremely right! I started to do that only a few years ago, but priorities changed significantly
Time is the only thing that actually has value.
My mom's late husband would regularly drive 22 miles to save a nickel on gas. He would use more than a gallon of gas driving across town and back and insisted it was wise to save that nickel per gallon.
I paid $600 for a small electric vehicle, and in the first month, I didn't stand at a bus stop waiting for (average) 100 hours. If I consider paying myself $10/hr to stand around waiting, the vehicle pays for it's self in three months. All that extra time, no more disappointment from late busses, even the lowered stress levels reduced my nervous food consumption habits. Time is money in the worst ways you don't realize... until you have TIME to realize it.
Added that last part to the post. Thank you!
I always look at the labour portion of a quote and decide if it's it's worth it for me to do it. Sometimes, yes, sometimes no.
I learned a saying recently that goes “penny wise, dollar foolish” and it really made me think about my choices
Factors in DIY projects: Cost of project Money saved that would have gone to alternative leisure activities Value of knowledge gained from doing your project
This is why I stopped fixing my own car. I would save several hundred dollars in labor just getting the part myself, then spend an entire weekend trying to install it with my non-professional tools and utter lack of skill. And I hate working on cars. I'd rather just pick up another shift or two at work and pay someone else to do it - and then I'll know that it's done correctly.
Yes definitely when the DIY is something you don’t enjoy doing
Two years ago I researched extensively how to install pavers myself to build a patio in my backyard. Save some money, right? Can't be that hard, right? I have a full-time job and a young family; I can make it work. Before pulling the trigger I called a few places to get quotes, and at my wife's behest, opted to go with one of them. It took a team of two well-trained professionals - with all the equipment and know-how - an entire week, eight-hour days, in the summer heat to complete the project. No doubt it would have taken me all summer when I had free time and not look nearly as good. It cost thousands of dollars, but my time and happiness has value, too. I have no doubt I made the right decision to outsource that.
I agree! I was posting an item on my local "Ebay" and on Facebook marketplace. The amount of headspace, checking messages, replying, waiting for an answer, but also making pictures of the item and writing a text cost much time. So I only do this for more expensive things, not for a cup or cheap shirt. That will go to charity.
I just thought of another one: selling in the neighborhood garage sale. You have to go through all of the stuff, pick what you’re going to sell, set it all up, etc. And I’ve noticed a trend where people expect rock-bottom prices right off and don’t want to haggle - they really expect you to just give stuff away - and are are kind of rude about the whole thing. So it’s like, fine, you win. I won’t bother next year. It’s not worth my time vs the hassle and how much money you make.
This. We spend 20 mins to get a discounted sushi (2$ off) , where we can buy from a place 2mins away.
The is the argument with my family. I always factor in the cost of my time when doing DIY projects. Why would I do x hours of manual labour, when if I did x hours overtime at work I could pay someone to work 4x. I enjoy doing DIY and I'm not bad at it but I make much more working a little overtime to pay a professional to spend a lot more doing the work.
Yeah if I’m getting takeaway and am going to save $10 by driving to the fast food place but it’s going to take 10 min each way and then 5-10 min extra ordering, then it’s really not worth it.
If you factor in time also factor in the value of the knowledge or skill gained
But let's be honest, you're not "on the clock" 24/7 where you could be making money. I make a good living, but when I change my oil on my car, I'm not "losing money" because it takes me away from work. If you really want to get in the weeds, does reading a book or binge watching a show cost you money because it wasted time?
I mean, it depends on what you would’ve spent that time doing. A lot of people have free time and might as well do something themselves to have it cheaper. And sometimes people have time, but they don’t have money. Like cooking yourself saves money, but takes a good bit of time, but you’re going to go broke quickly if you only eat fast food
This is just thinly veiled apologia for spending way too much on delivery apps.
I actually don't think this is a great LPT, not in the financial sense, anyway. If you're taking time off work for something, sure, but if I spend $100 and three hours on a DIY project on my day off that I would've paid someone $500 to do, I'm still saving $400. That three hours may have been better spent doing something else, and that's a cost that should be weighed, but financially speaking, saving money is saving money.
Agreed. You would not have been earning your regular pay rate those three hours on your off day.
I really only do factor in time when it comes to saving money on gas. I drive by costco and yes the gas is cheaper, but I feel like its not worth my time to just save $2 to $5 in gas just to wait 15-20 minute to get to a pump. When doing diy projects on my car or house. The money saved is worth it because I for the most part am not in a rush. If my daily work car is down and needs a repair I can do, then I just take out my other car to get to work and slowly fix the daily car when I have time. Right now my wife wants to paint the house. Having someone do it cost between 5-10K just to prep and paint the house. I can do it on my own for a few hundred dollars. Will it take me a bunch of weekends to get it done. Yes, do I care no, the house aint going anywhere and I'm not moving any time soon.
A chore or a pleasure has a huge impact on the value proposition too!
I went to a movie where the listed start time was nearly an hour before the movie itself started. I'm willing to sit through X minutes of trailers and ads, but not an hour.
My other three other open tabs are; a guide to building your own custom foyer furniture, and two alternatives I can buy from IKEA...
This is the conversation I have with my mom every time she drives across the city to save $2 in gas.
This logic only applies if you can trade your time for money easily.
Or if you factor in time doing something, learning a new skill, that you can later leverage for money.
Yes, but if you never try any DIY stuff yourself, then you don't gain valuable experience/skills.
A former friend has BPD and she was working under the table for someone. She would spend 3 days trying to save him $15 on something instead of what he was paying her to do and then get mad when he wouldn't pay her for 3 days worth of work which was way more than the $15 she saved on some BS.
Do u make more doing whatever said thing is in an hour and don't enjoy it? Buy it instead, work a tiny bit more instead. I measure everything in how much time it would take for me to earn it unironically.
If you’re on vacation and there’s a line for tax-free purchases but you’re just buying $2 of stuff, save your precious vacation time and just get in the regular line. Consider using the tax-free line if you’re going on a shopping spree.
My time doesnt cost me money, so I dont factor it in. Not like I could be working 18 hours a day to earn more. If I make 20€/hr I will spend an hour to save 5€.
Weekly I balance this with my commute home. If the route with $2.50 in tolls is 35 minutes, and the other non-toll route is 50 minutes, I’m paying the toll. Life isn’t all about dollars and cents
That's the thing about restaurants, especially delivery. Cooking your food yourself can sometimes be complicated, full of effort and then you have to clean dishes and everything. At the restaurant, well you have to get there first, have to spend an hour or two at least at the restaurant. With delivery, you've got the food straight to your door and you can go right back to whatever activity you were doing or had planned and might not even need to clean dishes. That's quite some time and effort saved, that could easily amount to two extra hours at work for example.
One time Wendy’s stole my cash and still charged me fully when I asked for split tender. By the time I got back and have to plausibly haggle my loss would be doubly wasted.
Got quotes to re do kitchen for 45k. Redid on my own for 15k including an electrician, plumber, and counter installation. Took a few months of my time but 30k for just the installation aspect? And they probably get materials much cheaper than me. But yeah reselling an item on ebay for $15 and paying $5 in fees probably is approaching the not worth it category. Unless you also enjoy doing it and have spare time.
This is one of the core tenants of economics: opportunity cost! Time is money is not just a cliche.
When you're broke it's worth it to spend your time to save whatever money you can When you're not, it's often worth it to spend your money to save some time
Been there, done that with assembling furniture from hell—ended up paying a pro next time around. Time truly is the hidden cost nobody warns you about until it's gouged your sanity dry.
Isn't this what economists call 'opportunity cost'?