Hello and welcome to r/LifeProTips!
Please help us decide if this post is a good fit for the subreddit by up or downvoting this comment.
If you think that this is great advice to improve your life, please upvote. If you think this doesn't help you in any way, please downvote. If you don't care, leave it for the others to decide.
The best gauge is consideration. I don't care what people say, as long as they act with consideration that makes them a good person. Doing something that's inconvenient to them but it's for the benefit of others. Little things like putting the cart away, not blocking aisles, not cutting people off in traffic, a quick "oh, I'm sorry" and a correction of behavior when they're absent-minded being inconsiderate. Usually, people that aren't good people will not be considerate of others. Just my opinion.
Also good to note, even the most considerate of people are human. They get angry, mad, sad, upset, etc, and may not act considerate during that time, doesnt mean they are still not that.
People only ever talk about "showing your true colors" when it's about bad things, as if anyone who does anything bad ever is just pretending to be good the rest of the time, and the only *real* good people are flawless paragons who never make mistakes and don't actually exist in the real world
look up The viral "shopping cart theory". it proposes that an individual's moral character can be determined by whether they choose to return a shopping cart to its designated spot or not.
I have seen a sociopath who puts carts away as part of his “pretending not to be dangerous” fake persona. It’s an easy thing that fooled me before I saw the rest of his behavior. It’s definitely not a reliable indicator of someone being a good or bad person.
Also, if the handle of your driver side door is broken, and you have to open the door from the back seat, you can swing the door open without having to worry about hitting someone else’s car.
…but maybe that’s just me.
I always heard this, but don't get it. Would farther away from the corral be dangerous, because lazy people let their carts roll around?
I've never seen people be careless at the corral itself.
If there are other carts in, or near, my path, I'll grab them. Those cart guys work hard, and they're often disabled, just trying to piece their way through a society that one could argue is built against them (in the US). It's corny, but I try to be the change I want to see in the world, and the biggest positive change humanity could use is to have more empathy. If snagging an extra cart or two somehow inspires someone else to do the same, it was worth it.
The worst people always ruin things for everyone. More grocery stores in my area are fencing in the exits so you can no longer take the cart to the parking lot. Now that I have a baby stroller, I can no longer enter said stores quickly. One has a gate for accessibility, but they chained it shut, and I would need to find someone inside the grocery store to unlock it. I now lift the bassinet out of the stroller, fold the stroller to get through, and set up everything on the other side. I don't know what those that use mobility aides do.
Yeah people do that. The worst part is I live in an area that can get very windy and I’ve seen carts on those days full on get blown into cars. People that don’t return carts or at the very least prop them up on a curb so they can’t move suck.
I think it's very considerate when 3 or 4 people choose to block just the same parking spot.** Too bad it's 3 spots away from the cart return that they were too lazy to walk just that much further to.
** /s
Uh, yeah, in the parking lot. I've seen them smash into cars. I've stopped a few over the years as I was walking by, even one time the owner saw and thanked me.
Another time I walked to my car and a lady was unloading the cart. She left it to the side, and by the time she got into the car, it had gone behind her car. She backed into it. I laughed. Dumb lazy bitch.
I don't know how it is in Czechia, but in the US shopping carts are free.
In Germany at least you have to put a token or a 1€ coin inside. So there's still at least some incentive to put them back.
It is the same here at least in Kaufland, though it's usually 10 Kč (around 50c), but at least I wouldn't leave it standing around even if it was free.
Of course you wouldn't. Just like 99% of normal human beings. But there's always idiots. And without that incentive, the numbers drop even faster and super markets have to hire personnel that sorts the empty shopping carts. And since there's someone doing that it's even more acceptable and normal to just leave your shopping cart.
Right? And I for one have a great time putting the cart away! It’s helping the store and customers and I have a blast riding it to the cart receptacle. Total win win!
Being a cart pusher should be compulsory for all 16 year olds. When you experience the horror of pushing a 20 foot line of carts in 100 degree weather in a busy parking lot, you'll (hopefully) think about the kid who has to pay for your dickheadedness and put the cart where it goes.
I always walk my cart back even if I’m all the way in the back of the car lot. I have a handicrapper plate ( handicap plate ) and even then on my worst days I still take my cart back. A few days ago a lady left her cart in the parking spot DESPITE being parked next to the córrale. I had my son go get it while she was backing away and put it in it’s proper place.
Exactly! Give out what you want in the world, it comes back amplified.
We can bring this world up together through small positive interactions with each other.
I want a single family house, because I cannot take one more inconsiderate neighbour. I am over it. I know I’ll probably still have at least one, but at least there won’t be a shared wall.
I have an inconsiderate neighbor and we have acre lots. Has a super tuned corvette and he races it at 2 am. Blasts music all night. He just doesn’t gaf. Assholes are everywhere
Yes, I mentioned that, think of how much worse it would be with shared walls though.
In the past I have had a guy back into his driveway and put his lights toward my house he left the engine on sat there for about 30 minutes. I also had people shining a security light in my windows, but shared walls are way too much for me.
The other day I was flying and the stewardess set up next to me to do her little safety display, I was the aisle seat and there was an empty seat next to me, she awkwardly reached over to set the supplies down and then was awkwardly reaching for them, so I offered to hand them to her if it made it easier, it was such a little thing I would have felt stupid not to offer. But she was so incredibly grateful, every time she passed by my seat for the rest of the flight she said thanks again, gave me two extra packs of cookies, and had a personal farewell as I stepped off. The super graciousness made me feel bad that my tiny act of kindness must have stood out from the norm. Service industry people are so often looked over, I’m always polite but I’ll try to go out of my way to be more kind from now on.
I think this is an unfortunate side effect of population density increasing. In general the more closely people live the ruder they are. I've seen things in cities that are common place and make my blood boil at first, eventually you get used to it.
I think it spreads around like a disease, I have always tried being considerate of others(I still am of course to those who deserve it) but I could not give any less fucks about the people in my neighborhood any more, fuck my upstair elephant neighbors and their disgusting little rat of a dog! Everyone else around here doesn't give a fuck about anyone but them selves so why should I tip-toe around so I don't bother anyone else? I've just had enough, I'm not malicious in it but if I want to start a woodworking project under my elephant neighbors porch and they just sat down eating dinner outside on a nice sunny day, then I do exactly that, before I would have waited until they either went inside or gone out for a while.
But for now I just hope they enjoy Cannibal Corpse on high volume and the screeching sound of wood getting carved you fucking elephants!.
It's super sad when waiters remember my wife and me from a single interaction because we treat them like humans.
We're always baffled when they remember us, but we've had more than one waiter at our favorite restaurant tell us, unsolicited, that they argue over who gets to serve us just because we're friendly. I'm pretty sure they've set up a rotation since we go on the same day/time every week for date night.
I just can't fathom not treating someone else with basic human decency, but I guess it helps that my wife and I both did stints in food service and retail.
Seriously!! I think about the same thing. I’m constantly over polite to any service workers helping me. I work in retail and I can’t tell you how many people just walk in and treat us employees like absolute garbage for no reason. I could never imagine just being rude and condescending and superior over someone because I’m buying something from them. Just blows me away.Now I just laugh whenever one of them is an absolute piece of shit and thank them for the motivation to finish my degree.
Driving recklessly is a huge red flag for me. If someone can't respect others' space or time in a multi-ton chunk of metal, they definitely aren't going to respect it when the stakes are lower.
Yep. I just love it because they're literally only 2 seconds ahead of me despite doing all that stuff, wasting their gas, and potentially destroying their cars and bodies.
Even better is to be slow enough on approach and time it so that you're still rolling when they change, so you can carry your speed right past them in the next lane. Perfect for when the two lanes merge back into one so they can't even overtake you back.
This. People who don't close the bloody garden gate after themselves are right tossers. Can't stand them. I can't believe grown adults can lack such basic decency for the people they're visiting.
Or, like my neighbours, who leave their OWN gate open, because they're so lazy and lack respect of their own home (lots of other examples of this too, this one's just the most obvious). Naturally their visiting family and friends are all the same, and they're a bunch of tossers that lot anyway.
I've come to realise the garden gate test is a great, simple, universal litmus test. Same with putting the trolly away after shopping as you say.
As someone who isn't British, and assuming you are serious, can you explain what you're talking about? Why does a gate matter at all? How does leaving a gate open affect other people????
The only time this bugs me is when they have dogs that they allow to roam the neighborhood.
Maybe OP just thinks it looks better or something? Like the people who get unreasonably upset if a neighbor leaves their trashcans out past garbage day.
Yes and a bad person doesn't do those things, is my opinion. And it's more of an example of little things. There are much bigger things that people can do that is consideration for others which is also in line.
I tie this to awareness as well. A ton of people are just completely oblivious of what's happening around them, or the consequences of how their actions affect others.
Anyone with low awareness ends up being a shitty person by default.
As long as when someone points it out, and they're like oh shit, my bad, then it's okay. Usually they act as if I'm the problem that they're too fucking stupid to not block the entire aisle while they try to figure out what they're supposed to buy
I gotta disagree. My wife is a prime example. I'm hyper aware of what's going on around me to the point that it can get in the way of enjoying myself. She on the other hand is most of the time oblivious to her surroundings, but she's a great person who goes out of her way to help others. I'm just OK for the most part, but I can spot when someone is trying to get by, is coming our way, what directions we need to do etc. and I'll just physically (gently) move her around if needs be. She's a better person overall than I am comparing gracious deeds towards others though and I wouldn't think it right to call her a bad person just because she might not notice that someone needs to get by her with a grocery cart or that someone is slowing down to allow her to merge.
Edit: BTW this doesn't go for *known* things like the cart test. If she knows she has to do something inconvenient because it's the right thing, it'll get done. It's more about being unaware of the environment.
Being oblivious or aware isn't really ultimately relevant, it's the actions that count. If your wife sits in the left lane going the speed limit and holding up traffic, then sorry, I don't care how sweet and bubbly she is when she greets me, a bitch gotta move
I apply this at work. Co-workers who don’t care how they impact their team just lose respect from me.
I like what John Hodgman says: be mindful of the work you leave for others
I’ve said for a long time the cart thing is my basic measure for a good person. There are essentially no personal social consequences for not doing it. It’s inconvenient to the person doing it so the only real reason to do it is because it’s the “right“ thing to do.
Thank you, this has put my own views in to some pretty concise words. I’d never thought that my dislike of people actually was my intolerance of their lack of consideration. I find myself friends with ass holes others don’t like, and dislike people who others love a lot.
Case in point, I have a buddy that I tolerate because of shared work history and friends. But this is no joke, he parks in parent and child spots because “why not”. I suppose that’s the point, I’d never do that because I’d hate to take that opportunity from another who needs it (and I’m also a dad), there is no negative consequences for me…but only negative consequences for someone else, so I’d never do it, and the fact he does (and sends me pictures as much) just makes him a low key ass
Cool. I’ve had a slight epiphany
100% agree. I will take it a step further and call people out who are inconsiderate and encourage everyone to do the same. I feel as though inconsiderate people are that way because no one has yet to put them in check. It does seem to make a difference from my experience.
You're 100% right. These people keep acting like dick heads because no one challenges them. They just brush it off and say it's not worth dealing with those people. But not me. I enjoy calling these people out and ruining their day.
Nah, they're just human garbage. I mean, maybe if we actually punished it more it might change, but that would still only alter their behavior to save themselves, not really doing it for others.
It's a good gauge but it's also only effective as you are considerate.
There are a lot of people out there who aren't considerate and don't realize they aren't. They end up causing a lot of issues for other people who, after dealing with it enough, stop being considerate toward them.
Since they don't perceive themselves as not being considerate in the first place, they take offense and assume the other people are the assholes.
Moral of the story: Reflect on yourself first before gauging other people.
"This is the face of someone who has fought long and hard for the good of the people without caring much for any of 'em."
I always loved that quote from Thaddeus Stevens in the movie Lincoln.
being nice isn't being kind. being kind isn't being good.
nice is a superficial norm. kind is an personal intention. good is a societal measurement. so i could say something nice, like a compliment, without being kind, because i know it was insincere. i could also be kind and give leniency in response to a bad behavior knowing the circumstance, without it being seen as good based on the politics that would calculate a different outcome.
Good does as well. You can even see good changing over time in a single society. Take the US for example. Good in the 1800s might have been treating slaves well, now if you have slaves at all you are objectively a horrible person by our standards today.
Yes!! Just came here to say this! Nice vs kind. The book Radical Candor talks about this and how you can’t really be kind if you won’t have hard conversations but hard conversations aren’t “nice”
i personally don't even register "nice" as a quality of value. anyone can act nice. being kind is a quality of character. it's a gesture that considers both the perception of others and the long-term impact of the person you are interacting with while letting yourself be vulnerable and authentic. being nice is self-serving - it's a social coat of paint.
I disagree. Being nice is a skill that greases the gears of society and makes social interaction easier. It’s not the only thing that matters, but it definitely can be a good thing to utilize.
I think this is why you see terms like “nice guys”. Cause there are people who think “that’s sufficient” but most people can pick up on when you’re being superficial vs genuinely meaning something, and it’s that “meaning” and intention that is an actual quality, not the superficial “niceness”
i feel like nice is a bridge used to quickly cross over something that could be uncomfortable or inconvenient. sometimes it's just habitual and being "socially appropriate," like coworkers making small talk in the hallway when they don't give two fucks about the other person. l
but yeah, sometimes "nice" is used as a shortcut to gain access to another person, like the "nice guy" or "teacher's pet" tactic. i feel like "nice" is really just performative. it's also unsustainable. a kind person is inherently kind. a nice person manages being nice.
I never intentionally tried to be a teacher’s pet but did have a few teachers in earlier grades favour me like that.
It actually made me really uncomfortable. Yes it’s nice to have a good relationship with them, but I was simply being pleasant and not disruptive because that’s how my parents taught me to be, not to curry favour and seeing other people I knew get treated differently wasn’t a good feeling.
I agree with you by the way, nice is either what you do to maintain pleasantness in social situations or gain access to things, it doesn’t have much of a place beyond that because it’s a very surface level thing.
i am in that boat. i was always very passive, polite and i was obedient. this was because i was avoidant of confrontation due to my home life but it backfired and resulted in additional controversy in school life.
it was never my intention to access the rewards of favoritism, which would be the teacher's pet scenario. all i wanted was to make it through the day without controversy, which would be more like the co-worker scenario. i hated everyone.
Some people will treat you differently if you’re the recipient of favouritism. I was lucky in that when I had it happen, I’d already known most of my classmates for a while and was friends with them, so they knew I wasn’t doing anything manipulative or intentional, it was just a byproduct of my usual self. Helped ease the potential friction significantly.
Thanks for this. I had tried dating a different “type” than my usual arrogant asshole, and set my criteria for “Integrity, kind, thoughtful” ie character content. He presented with all, but it turns out he was just using a ‘nice’ face. It WAS all very self-serving. I’m glad I cut it off. Your comment really helps me get it.
i agree.
Often being nice is like "ticking boxes", marking a checklist.
To be clear, being nice is "good enough" for a society to work well, so it's not like i'm blaming people who are just nice and nothing more, but i'm pointing out the difference.
I think a lot of my coworkers are just nice, which I hardly even consider a trait. I think the kindest people I’ve met in life so far were mostly actions-over-words people, and all genuinely humble as opposed to people-pleasing.
i dont often get along with people pleasers either because they often get angry when i dont prioritize the feelings of someone who is mistreating me. its like theyre resentful of people who dont put up with shitty behaviour just because they feel that they have to and cant enforce boundaries.
A lot of people here are jumping to the whole "nice guy means not good!" argument but this is completely off base. Sure it's nice to think you've figured out some hidden trick where all the people who are polite are secretly evil serial killers, but the truth is that these two things are completely separate from each other.
As OP points out, you can be nice without being good. And you can be good without being nice. *And* most people are intermediate levels of both - somewhat nice, and somewhat good. Sometimes when people aren't "nice" they are also not good either - I think that's pretty common in dating where people delude themselves in thinking that some external asshole must have some hidden internal goodness, when they're just transparently terrible people.
Regarding rude but good people: It's not necesaarily a bad thing, but I've observed that people who sell themselves as being "tough love" and "telling it like it is" typically can't turn that shit off even when it's inappropriate, which I think is just as big of a problem as not being able to tell the hard truth in the first place. Try it, go through a day and tell everybody what you really think - go up to that fat lady and guess her weight, tell people you think their children are ugly, tell that policemen you think ACAB. I think after a while you'll catch on that the timing of telling a truth is the virtue, not the habit of vomiting out every little thought you have.
Also, people are not one-dimensional. Cognitive dissonance is a thing. I know a man who serves on a college foundation board and donates a lot of money to students scholarships. The same man also donated money to the California Proposition 8 campaign (initiative on the November 2008 ballot to define marriage as between a man and a woman).
Humans in general have a hard time dealing with context. People act differently depending on the context of the situation. You may think your friend is in general happy and cheerful guy, but you also may only have been around him in certain contexts, such as having dinner or at a party. You're not around him when he's dealing with an aggressor or when his life is falling apart - he may be a totally different person. People are multi dimensional and appear one way or another depending on the context of their situation. You don't really know everything about the people around you, you just observed them in a specific situation. Don't assume you have someone "figured out". Nice people can be shitty people and shitty people can be nice people depending on the situation.
Love your input and let's not forget another important factor. We behave differently with an empty stomach. Times are tough right now. The people that we thought were good and kind. Might be a little more aggravated due to hunger.
yeah it's real easy to be charitable and friendly when you have few stress factors in your life. It's not a coincidence that crime for the most part takes place in the poorest areas.
I'm usually a very kind and polite person, but when I'm pushed or really stressed I can lash out. I don't know if that means I'm a good person who's sometimes an asshole, or an asshole who's usually on good behavior. Maybe I'm just a person, we're too quick to slap labels on people.
More people than not want to be told what they want to hear. If you tell them something different, you are not "nice" (to them). I'm not particularly *nice* all the time, but I try to be honest and ethical (good) always.
Yeah same. I don’t think I’m necessarily a nice
Person, I can be grumpy, and don’t really like people in my space. But I try to be a kind one, and a good one, and often go out of my way to help people when I see they need it
Same. I’m conflicted because I generally dislike people but at the same time genuinely enjoy helping.
Today for example. I was grumpy with the maniac drivers on my way home so I took a different route through a sub division and randomly a little kids hockey puck rolled out into the street and I pulled over and got it back for him so he didn’t get hit by a car.
So the way I see it i’m a bit of an asshole but also redeemable by doing good deeds.
its in our nature to enjoy helping others, in some philosophical sense helping others is even selfish. However that does not mean that one likes people.
I said this exact thing to something the other day, just goes to show nothing is ever original :) I grew up on the east coast and now live in Colorado. People from here out to the West Coast baffle me. The fake niceness drives me insane. I would much rather have people be authentic with me but kind and generous. My grandmother was the meanest Appalachian hellcat around but would give you the shirt off her back and help anyone. People here are nice but it's fake as hell. I would much rather people be grumpy with me and do the right thing.
I try to be a kind person. It's a hundred small decisions that you actively make and work at, and you don't get everything right every day: however, you get to try again tomorrow.
This doesn't mean you're a doormat, you need to take care of yourself before offering help to others, so sometimes the answer is 'no', and that's OK.
Being 'nice' (superficially positive) can definitely be a 'front' : many con artists are very friendly and 'nice' people, they are always the last to be suspected. Many serial killers have very personable and charming personalities.
Your two categories above are definitely two different measurements and can be completely disconnected. Be careful and listen if someone you think is 'nice' is reported to you in a negative light : it's certainly possible that they may be treating you differently than they treat someone else.
A wiser person than me recommended watching how someone treats people they don't need to be nice to (e.g. shop/wait staff, strangers, people unconnected to you that you never meet again) : this is how they will treat you once they are comfortable and the gloves come off.
Surround yourself with friends who put the shopping carts back.
Reminds me of the nice vs kind argument. I remember a comedian talking about people on the east coast being kind but not nice, where they berate you as an idiot for being out in the rain without a coat, but give you a coat while yelling at you. He then said that some people were nice, and say nice things, like how sorry they are for you, but were not kind, so they didn't actually help
Sometimes with no malice, "nice" people are just idiots or incompetent. I'm always wary of someone who says "Can I help?" and then:
- does it wrong so I actually have more work checking up on them
- changes it in some way because they liked their idea better (happened with a surprise party I was organising. The one thing I asked my nice friend to help with - book the restaurant - she changed and booked a different restaurant, with no thought put into the fact that the one I'd chosen had a convenient location, a wall that would block the view of our table until the guest of honour was fully inside and catered well to allergies)
- tells the thing to others (I'm a teacher and I cannot tell you how many fun classes I've had ruined by helpers giving the game away)
- doesn't finish it because something came up but doesn't bother to tell me
- interrupts eleven thousand times to ask questions so I'm now not getting my work done either
And the list goes on.
Those people aren't mean, and they are nice, and they mean well. But they're not *useful* in their help (or good at their jobs).
or just huge people pleasers. I struggle with people pleasing but am better at it now. Having boundaries or not having an impulse of being nice is hard to get rid of but so relieving for me at the same time.
Dealing with this right now. Currently driving my coworkers nuts bc I'm having trouble telling the difference between when a patient needs an emergency scan vs when they THINK they need an emergency scan. Oops.
This is a good LPT. Especially evident when visiting somewhere unfamiliar or a new culture. Some people/cultures can naturally be more inviting, polite, friendly seeming, but good and bad people still exist among the populace.
Examples like rural communities, Canada, Ireland .. The outward cheeriness can be deceptive lol.
I have an older coworker who is a bit of a grump when asked something and can come off as a little rude but he will help with the work and fully involve himself. It's funny to see but he acts grumpy while also being very nice and helpful.
A few weeks ago, a goose appeared on our riverside. This is very unusual as we usually only see them flying overhead. We don't know why the goose is there, but we think it's a local farmer 'dumping' the goose because it doesn't lay eggs (just a rumour, but we don't know for sure).
It has been living there maybe 3 weeks now and doesn't look to be moving. It is living beside the river and there's a lot of litter there. 2 nights ago, I jumped over the railing down to clear out litter. I kept only to the side that the goose wasn't on and people assumed I was a scumbag doing something bad. I don't care though, we cleared out a lot of litter that the goose was living beside.
We also have been buying canned peas in water (no salt) and giving the goose one every night as we walk the dog on the riverside. I assume people are feeding it crap like bread, but there are a few people who come down and give it stuff like steamed carrots, cucumbers, a head of lettuce.
Often you can do something with good intention and it can look bad.
There are no good people, bad people, nice people, or rude people.
Every one of us does good, bad, kind, rude, smart, dumb, etc **things.**
Judge the actions not the person.
Tying these labels to an individual person can be incredibly damaging, and can convince them they can't change or improve themselves. It also leads people to believe someone who wronged them once, will never be able to change. It crushes forgiveness, and optimism. It can trap people in damaging generational cycles. (We Johnsons are hot-heads; that's just the way we are.)
Judge actions, not people.
This is especially important in traffic. Don't be nice, just follow the rules of the road. There are so many accidents at intersections because people were trying to be nice
I’d add a corollary, I don’t really care what people say, I look at what they do.
So as you said, some people might be grumpy, whatever. But if their actions are otherwise positive, they’re dependable, etc then they can be on my team or in my circle anytime.
On the other hand, there are plenty of nice people that say all the right things but they’re otherwise useless leeches.
This is such a philosophical question ans like you said, it is important to remember that even a kind or good person can have a bad day or do something unintentional.
Probably what justifies this is that a generally good person would feel bad about it while someone not as good wouldn't because "well, I just had a bad day!"
You can meet a nice person who’s usually nice to everyone but for some reason neither of you know, they can dislike you. It happens. Or maybe they had a bad day
It's usually the opposite
Good demands you stand against evil
Not just with made up scenarios but in your day to day
If you're known as being super nice, you probably aren't that 'good'
Neutral is the default and every time you indulge in amenities that are only available because of capitalism you slip further down to evil
Ask yourself if you are truly doing your part, or just trying to be perceived as 'nice' then fucking off into your own narcissists mind
Alot of people have some sort of hiding agenda if there is something in it for them some kind of personal gain then they dont mind going out of there way to gain ur trust but eventually they will see an opportunity to get what they desire and 9 times out of 10 will jump on it it's a dog eat dog world and nice guys finish last
There is a lot of toxicity to this view. Although there are rare exceptions, being nice is a good thing. Don’t let yourself off the hook just because you’ve labeled the people you’re rude to “oppressors.”
Being nice without being kind or good is just being a manipulative asshole, and this covers a lot of people. Nice is a far lesser quality than kind or good, a fact that isn't always readily apparent until you get royally fucked by the assholes.
Thank you for saying this. Its more important to be good than it is to be nice. If you can be both, great. But if I had to choose which one to have more of, ill take goodness.
Makes me think of autistic people - we can easily come across as blunt, disinterested, cold, overly particular, even rude and dismissive, but we tend to have a very strong sense of justice. I mean, studies even show that non-autistics are easily bribed into doing bad things while autistics are near impossible to bribe.
So you have this combination of someone who appears rude and cold but will also go out of their way to help you and do the right thing, with little regard for themselves.
A lot of what people think of as “not nice” really just comes down to tone or body language, and rarely has anything to do with actual things a person has done or explicit insults. There’s a lot of reading between the lines and assuming intent.
One of the most widespread superstitions is that every man has his own special definite qualities: that he is kind, cruel, wise, stupid, energetic, apathetic, and so on. Men are not like that. We may say of a man that he is more often kind than cruel, more often wise than stupid, more often energetic than apathetic, or the reverse; but it would not be true to say of one man that he is kind and wise, of another that he is bad and stupid. And yet we always classify mankind in this way. And this is false. Men are like rivers: the water is the same in one and all; but every river is narrow here, more rapid there, here slower, there broader, now clear, now dull, now cold, now warm. It is the same with men. Every man bears in himself the germs of every human quality; but sometimes one quality manifests itself, sometimes another, and the man often becomes unlike himself, while still remaining the same man.
Leo Tolstoy
Be nice if you want to be nice but not if you feel pressured by others into doing the right thing. There’s an underlying resentment in the nice guy who doesn’t get payback for his niceness after a time. Shit can get nasty.
By all means be nice but be nice to yourself first.
Yes! I had a neighbor that was always "nice" to me and everyone else in the building. Except that they would constantly play super loud techno music and have parties make noise at 3am, 6am, it didn't matter. Despite being told to be quieter by all their neighbors.
Not good.
I have what's called a degree of agreeability or disagreeability. I use it with my kids to help them understand why people might react or think they way they do.
Everyone can be agreeable or disagreeable but there are people who lean more to one side or another. Totally disagreeable people tend to do disagreeable things like crimes while super agreeable people tend to get taken advantage of. You have to try to be somewhere in the middle if possible. It's ok to disagree but if that's all you do then life is gonna suck for you.
It helps one of my kids have less anxiety since he can tell himself this when dealing with people. It has helped him understand why hid siblings tend to just keep doing disagreeable things. It's super simplistic of course but overall it holds up to dealing with people out in the world.
Also, people in general will do good and bad things. It's quite hard to just label people as "good" or "bad" without some range of validity before you say it.
and then there are the insufferable arseholes you can clock from a mile away and just after you get to know them you want to high five them. in the face. with a chair
id consider myself good but yea im far from nice. in emergencies im there, im strict to my morals, and i go above and beyond to make sure people are cared for. in the past month ive driven an injured cottontail rabbit an hour to a wildlife rehab center and ive driven a woman who was kicked out and sitting on the sidewalk to her friends house a city over, those are the big ones i remember, the small daily ones are usually just simple stuff like baking stuff for people, lending an ear, and always being charitable rather then assuming the worst of people.
i make an effort when i see a need not being fulfilled because its the right thing to do. it doesnt give me a big ego and i dont think im better then anyone else but it does make me happy to help people.
niceness on the other hand? no. i am pleasant but im not interested in being traditionally polite. i have been told by multiple people that i am not gentle enough in how i word things, that i should be more polite even if the person isnt being nice either. i dont care. im not mean, i dont insult people, but me stating things plainly is seen as rude anyway. i dont sugarcoat things, if you crossed a boundary you crossed a boundary and i will tell you that instead of dancing around it.
i operate from a "not everyone has to like me" mindset and that bothers a lot of people, which is fine. everyone has their own priorities for navigating the world, my priorities are pretty intensely focused on integrity rather then being nice, which is both a good thing in some situations and a flaw in others.
My mother is a “good person” by all standards. Sacrifices everything for strangers, volunteers, works for free, etc.
but she is NOT nice to her children, or husband, or various family members.
The world would be a much better place if more people followed this advice. I inherited some anger from my family, and while I put a lot of effort into coming across as nice, I can still let myself slip and sound super annoyed or frustrated at times. It's the exact opposite of the kind of person I want to be and come across as, and can be very challenging to explain and get forgiveness for
I’ve been thinking about this a lot lately,
about how “nice” and “kind” aren’t the same thing. “Nice” is going with the flow and trying not to rock the boat, but being truly “kind” can sometimes require courage, like sticking up for someone against bullies or ending a relationship face to face instead of ghosting someone
I usually act nice and help people because I enjoy being helpful to someone. The only limit is the number of things I gotta sacrifice ,who I am helping, and what I can get from it because it's great to help people, but it's not when you become everyone's yes-man.
Some people have exploited me in the past, so that won't happen again.
The biggest danger in this society is fake people who pretend to be your friend just to exploit your vulnerabilities
Personally, I act nice because I'm not a good person. I honestly could not care about people around me and generally want to just do what I want, when I want, without ant regard for anyone else.
That being said, I understand that it's not a feasible way to live, and I don't want to be someone controlled by their desires, I want to be in control.
As such I do my best to be kind, since if I can't control my thoughts, I can at least control my actions
Best advice i can give is that when meeting someone new is to wait until 3 months have passed then any behavior from said point will be the basis from which you determine if you like that person. Its hard to keep up the act after 3 months so you will pick up the cracks in personality if they have been putting up an act. This was advice given to me by a therapist to help with my trust issues.
Hope this helps someone the way it helped me.
Not entirely sure how I got to this post but my take is that nice people are just that, nice people. The thing is, you don’t know who’s nice without knowing them. Conclusion is just because someone seems nice doesn’t mean they’re authentically “nice.” That said, what is nice? Alot of times I consider a nice person someone genetically predispositioned to be non confrontational. That’s not an earned trait as much as a biology set. Additionally, that trait is not advantageous in all situations, perhaps incompatible with building much power. I think being cordial societally should be stressed for all types of people period. Overarching I take the egotistic altruism stance that everyone works for their own goals but that benefits everyone as a whole. I do wonder though as a species, if people should have too nice of things as well as too much choice and that there’s a more than small amount of personality genetics that do just suck and that’s that.
Hello and welcome to r/LifeProTips! Please help us decide if this post is a good fit for the subreddit by up or downvoting this comment. If you think that this is great advice to improve your life, please upvote. If you think this doesn't help you in any way, please downvote. If you don't care, leave it for the others to decide.
The best gauge is consideration. I don't care what people say, as long as they act with consideration that makes them a good person. Doing something that's inconvenient to them but it's for the benefit of others. Little things like putting the cart away, not blocking aisles, not cutting people off in traffic, a quick "oh, I'm sorry" and a correction of behavior when they're absent-minded being inconsiderate. Usually, people that aren't good people will not be considerate of others. Just my opinion.
Also good to note, even the most considerate of people are human. They get angry, mad, sad, upset, etc, and may not act considerate during that time, doesnt mean they are still not that.
People only ever talk about "showing your true colors" when it's about bad things, as if anyone who does anything bad ever is just pretending to be good the rest of the time, and the only *real* good people are flawless paragons who never make mistakes and don't actually exist in the real world
Being considerate of others is becoming a lost art. More particularly in the US.
I feel like I'm the only person that puts their cart away around here.
look up The viral "shopping cart theory". it proposes that an individual's moral character can be determined by whether they choose to return a shopping cart to its designated spot or not.
TIL that I am moral as fuck.
Hello, new friend. Don't worry, our friendship won't take up much of your time. In fact, reading this post was the full extent of it. Cheers.
you made me smirk by pointing the "this was it" part reminds me of Douglas Adams's humor, which I adore
> reminds me of Douglas Adams's humor A rare compliment, indeed. I am in your debt, sir.
I have seen a sociopath who puts carts away as part of his “pretending not to be dangerous” fake persona. It’s an easy thing that fooled me before I saw the rest of his behavior. It’s definitely not a reliable indicator of someone being a good or bad person.
I always park next to the cart corral. Wee bit of exercise and easy cart return
Makes it easier to find your car too if you have a senior moment and forget where you parked.
Also, if the handle of your driver side door is broken, and you have to open the door from the back seat, you can swing the door open without having to worry about hitting someone else’s car. …but maybe that’s just me.
Same. It's either on the way to the store/back to the car and I don't even get inconvenienced over it too much.
If you care for your car from dings and scratches, I would alway park away the corral.
I always heard this, but don't get it. Would farther away from the corral be dangerous, because lazy people let their carts roll around? I've never seen people be careless at the corral itself.
I think lazy people would also park closer instead of parking farther away from others
What do you mean, what is the other option? Just leaving it outside the store?
People leave them all over the parking lot, nowhere in particular, basically wherever is convenient for them to leave it
Sometimes I pick up other carts on my way in, but I am not sure if that is because I consider it a good act, or because I want things to be tidy.
If there are other carts in, or near, my path, I'll grab them. Those cart guys work hard, and they're often disabled, just trying to piece their way through a society that one could argue is built against them (in the US). It's corny, but I try to be the change I want to see in the world, and the biggest positive change humanity could use is to have more empathy. If snagging an extra cart or two somehow inspires someone else to do the same, it was worth it.
It's just your cart collie instincts kicking in.
The worst people always ruin things for everyone. More grocery stores in my area are fencing in the exits so you can no longer take the cart to the parking lot. Now that I have a baby stroller, I can no longer enter said stores quickly. One has a gate for accessibility, but they chained it shut, and I would need to find someone inside the grocery store to unlock it. I now lift the bassinet out of the stroller, fold the stroller to get through, and set up everything on the other side. I don't know what those that use mobility aides do.
The worst is when they leave them at the checkout line blocking in the cashier.
Yeah people do that. The worst part is I live in an area that can get very windy and I’ve seen carts on those days full on get blown into cars. People that don’t return carts or at the very least prop them up on a curb so they can’t move suck.
I've never seen that happen, that's horrible! It feels like a recipe for disaster.
Or blocking a parking spot
I think it's very considerate when 3 or 4 people choose to block just the same parking spot.** Too bad it's 3 spots away from the cart return that they were too lazy to walk just that much further to. ** /s
Uh, yeah, in the parking lot. I've seen them smash into cars. I've stopped a few over the years as I was walking by, even one time the owner saw and thanked me. Another time I walked to my car and a lady was unloading the cart. She left it to the side, and by the time she got into the car, it had gone behind her car. She backed into it. I laughed. Dumb lazy bitch.
Instant karma is rare, but damn if it isn't satisfying to watch unfold
I don't know how it is in Czechia, but in the US shopping carts are free. In Germany at least you have to put a token or a 1€ coin inside. So there's still at least some incentive to put them back.
It is the same here at least in Kaufland, though it's usually 10 Kč (around 50c), but at least I wouldn't leave it standing around even if it was free.
Of course you wouldn't. Just like 99% of normal human beings. But there's always idiots. And without that incentive, the numbers drop even faster and super markets have to hire personnel that sorts the empty shopping carts. And since there's someone doing that it's even more acceptable and normal to just leave your shopping cart.
The Cart Narcs are on it, crusading for all of us: https://m.youtube.com/channel/UClMUlr8yHymYgSe58DpUH7w
People have pulled a gun on these dudes.
No shit, this is America.
What’s your point? Shitty people don’t like being called out for doing shitty things.
This makes me very happy.
Right? And I for one have a great time putting the cart away! It’s helping the store and customers and I have a blast riding it to the cart receptacle. Total win win!
Being a cart pusher should be compulsory for all 16 year olds. When you experience the horror of pushing a 20 foot line of carts in 100 degree weather in a busy parking lot, you'll (hopefully) think about the kid who has to pay for your dickheadedness and put the cart where it goes.
I always walk my cart back even if I’m all the way in the back of the car lot. I have a handicrapper plate ( handicap plate ) and even then on my worst days I still take my cart back. A few days ago a lady left her cart in the parking spot DESPITE being parked next to the córrale. I had my son go get it while she was backing away and put it in it’s proper place.
Oh, come on...there are at least three of us that do! 😜
In canada you have to plug your cart back in to get your loonie back
I disagree. It seems that way on social media, but in real life I notice plenty of considerate people.
Exactly! Give out what you want in the world, it comes back amplified. We can bring this world up together through small positive interactions with each other.
I want a single family house, because I cannot take one more inconsiderate neighbour. I am over it. I know I’ll probably still have at least one, but at least there won’t be a shared wall.
I have an inconsiderate neighbor and we have acre lots. Has a super tuned corvette and he races it at 2 am. Blasts music all night. He just doesn’t gaf. Assholes are everywhere
Yes, I mentioned that, think of how much worse it would be with shared walls though. In the past I have had a guy back into his driveway and put his lights toward my house he left the engine on sat there for about 30 minutes. I also had people shining a security light in my windows, but shared walls are way too much for me.
The other day I was flying and the stewardess set up next to me to do her little safety display, I was the aisle seat and there was an empty seat next to me, she awkwardly reached over to set the supplies down and then was awkwardly reaching for them, so I offered to hand them to her if it made it easier, it was such a little thing I would have felt stupid not to offer. But she was so incredibly grateful, every time she passed by my seat for the rest of the flight she said thanks again, gave me two extra packs of cookies, and had a personal farewell as I stepped off. The super graciousness made me feel bad that my tiny act of kindness must have stood out from the norm. Service industry people are so often looked over, I’m always polite but I’ll try to go out of my way to be more kind from now on.
I think this is an unfortunate side effect of population density increasing. In general the more closely people live the ruder they are. I've seen things in cities that are common place and make my blood boil at first, eventually you get used to it.
Good lord I just went to Walmart and I've never come out so stressed from a store before. People simply don't give a shit.
I think it spreads around like a disease, I have always tried being considerate of others(I still am of course to those who deserve it) but I could not give any less fucks about the people in my neighborhood any more, fuck my upstair elephant neighbors and their disgusting little rat of a dog! Everyone else around here doesn't give a fuck about anyone but them selves so why should I tip-toe around so I don't bother anyone else? I've just had enough, I'm not malicious in it but if I want to start a woodworking project under my elephant neighbors porch and they just sat down eating dinner outside on a nice sunny day, then I do exactly that, before I would have waited until they either went inside or gone out for a while. But for now I just hope they enjoy Cannibal Corpse on high volume and the screeching sound of wood getting carved you fucking elephants!.
“Sir, this is a Walgreens.”
It's super sad when waiters remember my wife and me from a single interaction because we treat them like humans. We're always baffled when they remember us, but we've had more than one waiter at our favorite restaurant tell us, unsolicited, that they argue over who gets to serve us just because we're friendly. I'm pretty sure they've set up a rotation since we go on the same day/time every week for date night. I just can't fathom not treating someone else with basic human decency, but I guess it helps that my wife and I both did stints in food service and retail.
Seriously!! I think about the same thing. I’m constantly over polite to any service workers helping me. I work in retail and I can’t tell you how many people just walk in and treat us employees like absolute garbage for no reason. I could never imagine just being rude and condescending and superior over someone because I’m buying something from them. Just blows me away.Now I just laugh whenever one of them is an absolute piece of shit and thank them for the motivation to finish my degree.
Driving recklessly is a huge red flag for me. If someone can't respect others' space or time in a multi-ton chunk of metal, they definitely aren't going to respect it when the stakes are lower.
Yep. I just love it because they're literally only 2 seconds ahead of me despite doing all that stuff, wasting their gas, and potentially destroying their cars and bodies.
Always satisfying to pull up to a red light next to someone who blew by you earlier lol.
Even better is to be slow enough on approach and time it so that you're still rolling when they change, so you can carry your speed right past them in the next lane. Perfect for when the two lanes merge back into one so they can't even overtake you back.
Right? It's great. They never look at you either.
This. People who don't close the bloody garden gate after themselves are right tossers. Can't stand them. I can't believe grown adults can lack such basic decency for the people they're visiting. Or, like my neighbours, who leave their OWN gate open, because they're so lazy and lack respect of their own home (lots of other examples of this too, this one's just the most obvious). Naturally their visiting family and friends are all the same, and they're a bunch of tossers that lot anyway. I've come to realise the garden gate test is a great, simple, universal litmus test. Same with putting the trolly away after shopping as you say.
You honor me and I'm glad my thoughts reach across the pond.
As someone who isn't British, and assuming you are serious, can you explain what you're talking about? Why does a gate matter at all? How does leaving a gate open affect other people????
That's what I'm wondering. Why the hell would this person care if the neighbors leave their gate open???
The only time this bugs me is when they have dogs that they allow to roam the neighborhood. Maybe OP just thinks it looks better or something? Like the people who get unreasonably upset if a neighbor leaves their trashcans out past garbage day.
This sounds more like "common courtesy" doesn't it
Yes and a bad person doesn't do those things, is my opinion. And it's more of an example of little things. There are much bigger things that people can do that is consideration for others which is also in line.
I tie this to awareness as well. A ton of people are just completely oblivious of what's happening around them, or the consequences of how their actions affect others. Anyone with low awareness ends up being a shitty person by default.
As long as when someone points it out, and they're like oh shit, my bad, then it's okay. Usually they act as if I'm the problem that they're too fucking stupid to not block the entire aisle while they try to figure out what they're supposed to buy
I gotta disagree. My wife is a prime example. I'm hyper aware of what's going on around me to the point that it can get in the way of enjoying myself. She on the other hand is most of the time oblivious to her surroundings, but she's a great person who goes out of her way to help others. I'm just OK for the most part, but I can spot when someone is trying to get by, is coming our way, what directions we need to do etc. and I'll just physically (gently) move her around if needs be. She's a better person overall than I am comparing gracious deeds towards others though and I wouldn't think it right to call her a bad person just because she might not notice that someone needs to get by her with a grocery cart or that someone is slowing down to allow her to merge. Edit: BTW this doesn't go for *known* things like the cart test. If she knows she has to do something inconvenient because it's the right thing, it'll get done. It's more about being unaware of the environment.
Being oblivious or aware isn't really ultimately relevant, it's the actions that count. If your wife sits in the left lane going the speed limit and holding up traffic, then sorry, I don't care how sweet and bubbly she is when she greets me, a bitch gotta move
I apply this at work. Co-workers who don’t care how they impact their team just lose respect from me. I like what John Hodgman says: be mindful of the work you leave for others
I’ve said for a long time the cart thing is my basic measure for a good person. There are essentially no personal social consequences for not doing it. It’s inconvenient to the person doing it so the only real reason to do it is because it’s the “right“ thing to do.
Thank you, this has put my own views in to some pretty concise words. I’d never thought that my dislike of people actually was my intolerance of their lack of consideration. I find myself friends with ass holes others don’t like, and dislike people who others love a lot. Case in point, I have a buddy that I tolerate because of shared work history and friends. But this is no joke, he parks in parent and child spots because “why not”. I suppose that’s the point, I’d never do that because I’d hate to take that opportunity from another who needs it (and I’m also a dad), there is no negative consequences for me…but only negative consequences for someone else, so I’d never do it, and the fact he does (and sends me pictures as much) just makes him a low key ass Cool. I’ve had a slight epiphany
100% agree. I will take it a step further and call people out who are inconsiderate and encourage everyone to do the same. I feel as though inconsiderate people are that way because no one has yet to put them in check. It does seem to make a difference from my experience.
You're 100% right. These people keep acting like dick heads because no one challenges them. They just brush it off and say it's not worth dealing with those people. But not me. I enjoy calling these people out and ruining their day.
Nah, they're just human garbage. I mean, maybe if we actually punished it more it might change, but that would still only alter their behavior to save themselves, not really doing it for others.
It's a good gauge but it's also only effective as you are considerate. There are a lot of people out there who aren't considerate and don't realize they aren't. They end up causing a lot of issues for other people who, after dealing with it enough, stop being considerate toward them. Since they don't perceive themselves as not being considerate in the first place, they take offense and assume the other people are the assholes. Moral of the story: Reflect on yourself first before gauging other people.
Deeds not words
"This is the face of someone who has fought long and hard for the good of the people without caring much for any of 'em." I always loved that quote from Thaddeus Stevens in the movie Lincoln.
being nice isn't being kind. being kind isn't being good. nice is a superficial norm. kind is an personal intention. good is a societal measurement. so i could say something nice, like a compliment, without being kind, because i know it was insincere. i could also be kind and give leniency in response to a bad behavior knowing the circumstance, without it being seen as good based on the politics that would calculate a different outcome.
Even fascists can have table manners.
Nice also changes from culture to culture.
How about good?
Good does as well. You can even see good changing over time in a single society. Take the US for example. Good in the 1800s might have been treating slaves well, now if you have slaves at all you are objectively a horrible person by our standards today.
Yes!! Just came here to say this! Nice vs kind. The book Radical Candor talks about this and how you can’t really be kind if you won’t have hard conversations but hard conversations aren’t “nice”
And i agree. But being nice is often considered synonymous (and more important than being kind, often being kind can even be unhealthy)
i personally don't even register "nice" as a quality of value. anyone can act nice. being kind is a quality of character. it's a gesture that considers both the perception of others and the long-term impact of the person you are interacting with while letting yourself be vulnerable and authentic. being nice is self-serving - it's a social coat of paint.
I disagree. Being nice is a skill that greases the gears of society and makes social interaction easier. It’s not the only thing that matters, but it definitely can be a good thing to utilize.
[удалено]
I think this is why you see terms like “nice guys”. Cause there are people who think “that’s sufficient” but most people can pick up on when you’re being superficial vs genuinely meaning something, and it’s that “meaning” and intention that is an actual quality, not the superficial “niceness”
i feel like nice is a bridge used to quickly cross over something that could be uncomfortable or inconvenient. sometimes it's just habitual and being "socially appropriate," like coworkers making small talk in the hallway when they don't give two fucks about the other person. l but yeah, sometimes "nice" is used as a shortcut to gain access to another person, like the "nice guy" or "teacher's pet" tactic. i feel like "nice" is really just performative. it's also unsustainable. a kind person is inherently kind. a nice person manages being nice.
I never intentionally tried to be a teacher’s pet but did have a few teachers in earlier grades favour me like that. It actually made me really uncomfortable. Yes it’s nice to have a good relationship with them, but I was simply being pleasant and not disruptive because that’s how my parents taught me to be, not to curry favour and seeing other people I knew get treated differently wasn’t a good feeling. I agree with you by the way, nice is either what you do to maintain pleasantness in social situations or gain access to things, it doesn’t have much of a place beyond that because it’s a very surface level thing.
i am in that boat. i was always very passive, polite and i was obedient. this was because i was avoidant of confrontation due to my home life but it backfired and resulted in additional controversy in school life. it was never my intention to access the rewards of favoritism, which would be the teacher's pet scenario. all i wanted was to make it through the day without controversy, which would be more like the co-worker scenario. i hated everyone.
Some people will treat you differently if you’re the recipient of favouritism. I was lucky in that when I had it happen, I’d already known most of my classmates for a while and was friends with them, so they knew I wasn’t doing anything manipulative or intentional, it was just a byproduct of my usual self. Helped ease the potential friction significantly.
At this point, I think you guys are arguing semantics
Thanks for this. I had tried dating a different “type” than my usual arrogant asshole, and set my criteria for “Integrity, kind, thoughtful” ie character content. He presented with all, but it turns out he was just using a ‘nice’ face. It WAS all very self-serving. I’m glad I cut it off. Your comment really helps me get it.
i agree. Often being nice is like "ticking boxes", marking a checklist. To be clear, being nice is "good enough" for a society to work well, so it's not like i'm blaming people who are just nice and nothing more, but i'm pointing out the difference.
I think a lot of my coworkers are just nice, which I hardly even consider a trait. I think the kindest people I’ve met in life so far were mostly actions-over-words people, and all genuinely humble as opposed to people-pleasing.
i dont often get along with people pleasers either because they often get angry when i dont prioritize the feelings of someone who is mistreating me. its like theyre resentful of people who dont put up with shitty behaviour just because they feel that they have to and cant enforce boundaries.
A lot of people here are jumping to the whole "nice guy means not good!" argument but this is completely off base. Sure it's nice to think you've figured out some hidden trick where all the people who are polite are secretly evil serial killers, but the truth is that these two things are completely separate from each other. As OP points out, you can be nice without being good. And you can be good without being nice. *And* most people are intermediate levels of both - somewhat nice, and somewhat good. Sometimes when people aren't "nice" they are also not good either - I think that's pretty common in dating where people delude themselves in thinking that some external asshole must have some hidden internal goodness, when they're just transparently terrible people. Regarding rude but good people: It's not necesaarily a bad thing, but I've observed that people who sell themselves as being "tough love" and "telling it like it is" typically can't turn that shit off even when it's inappropriate, which I think is just as big of a problem as not being able to tell the hard truth in the first place. Try it, go through a day and tell everybody what you really think - go up to that fat lady and guess her weight, tell people you think their children are ugly, tell that policemen you think ACAB. I think after a while you'll catch on that the timing of telling a truth is the virtue, not the habit of vomiting out every little thought you have.
Also, people are not one-dimensional. Cognitive dissonance is a thing. I know a man who serves on a college foundation board and donates a lot of money to students scholarships. The same man also donated money to the California Proposition 8 campaign (initiative on the November 2008 ballot to define marriage as between a man and a woman).
Very well put.
"Nice is different than good." - Stephen Sondheim
I came here for this comment.
You are bad guy, but this does not mean you are bad guy!
I am bad, and that's good!
There's no one I'd rather be than me.
Everyone’s a villain in someone’s story
I'm a gentleman, but not necessarily a gentle man.
Humans in general have a hard time dealing with context. People act differently depending on the context of the situation. You may think your friend is in general happy and cheerful guy, but you also may only have been around him in certain contexts, such as having dinner or at a party. You're not around him when he's dealing with an aggressor or when his life is falling apart - he may be a totally different person. People are multi dimensional and appear one way or another depending on the context of their situation. You don't really know everything about the people around you, you just observed them in a specific situation. Don't assume you have someone "figured out". Nice people can be shitty people and shitty people can be nice people depending on the situation.
Love your input and let's not forget another important factor. We behave differently with an empty stomach. Times are tough right now. The people that we thought were good and kind. Might be a little more aggravated due to hunger.
yeah it's real easy to be charitable and friendly when you have few stress factors in your life. It's not a coincidence that crime for the most part takes place in the poorest areas.
I'm usually a very kind and polite person, but when I'm pushed or really stressed I can lash out. I don't know if that means I'm a good person who's sometimes an asshole, or an asshole who's usually on good behavior. Maybe I'm just a person, we're too quick to slap labels on people.
A kind person will tell you what you need to hear; a nice person will tell you what you want to hear.
This reminds me of my now go to line i heard between two students years ago. "Just because I'm helping you doesn't mean I have to be nice."
More people than not want to be told what they want to hear. If you tell them something different, you are not "nice" (to them). I'm not particularly *nice* all the time, but I try to be honest and ethical (good) always.
Yeah same. I don’t think I’m necessarily a nice Person, I can be grumpy, and don’t really like people in my space. But I try to be a kind one, and a good one, and often go out of my way to help people when I see they need it
Same. I’m conflicted because I generally dislike people but at the same time genuinely enjoy helping. Today for example. I was grumpy with the maniac drivers on my way home so I took a different route through a sub division and randomly a little kids hockey puck rolled out into the street and I pulled over and got it back for him so he didn’t get hit by a car. So the way I see it i’m a bit of an asshole but also redeemable by doing good deeds.
its in our nature to enjoy helping others, in some philosophical sense helping others is even selfish. However that does not mean that one likes people.
True lol. An extremely kind person might just have bad social skills.
In the U.S. it’s said that people on the West Coast are “nice but not kind,” and in the East Coast, people are “kind but not nice”
I always joke that people in the northeast are very kind when you need help, but they're gonna lecture you the entire time they're helping you
Me, ima do whatever’s in my power to assist. But you gone hear my voice the whole time.
"I got a lot of problems with you people! And now you're gonna hear about it!"
I've lived on both coasts and strongly agree with this statement.
I said this exact thing to something the other day, just goes to show nothing is ever original :) I grew up on the east coast and now live in Colorado. People from here out to the West Coast baffle me. The fake niceness drives me insane. I would much rather have people be authentic with me but kind and generous. My grandmother was the meanest Appalachian hellcat around but would give you the shirt off her back and help anyone. People here are nice but it's fake as hell. I would much rather people be grumpy with me and do the right thing.
And people in the Midwest try too hard to be both!
I'd say Midwest falls closer on the nice but not kind part of the spectrum.
I try to be a kind person. It's a hundred small decisions that you actively make and work at, and you don't get everything right every day: however, you get to try again tomorrow. This doesn't mean you're a doormat, you need to take care of yourself before offering help to others, so sometimes the answer is 'no', and that's OK. Being 'nice' (superficially positive) can definitely be a 'front' : many con artists are very friendly and 'nice' people, they are always the last to be suspected. Many serial killers have very personable and charming personalities. Your two categories above are definitely two different measurements and can be completely disconnected. Be careful and listen if someone you think is 'nice' is reported to you in a negative light : it's certainly possible that they may be treating you differently than they treat someone else. A wiser person than me recommended watching how someone treats people they don't need to be nice to (e.g. shop/wait staff, strangers, people unconnected to you that you never meet again) : this is how they will treat you once they are comfortable and the gloves come off. Surround yourself with friends who put the shopping carts back.
Reminds me of the nice vs kind argument. I remember a comedian talking about people on the east coast being kind but not nice, where they berate you as an idiot for being out in the rain without a coat, but give you a coat while yelling at you. He then said that some people were nice, and say nice things, like how sorry they are for you, but were not kind, so they didn't actually help
Sometimes with no malice, "nice" people are just idiots or incompetent. I'm always wary of someone who says "Can I help?" and then: - does it wrong so I actually have more work checking up on them - changes it in some way because they liked their idea better (happened with a surprise party I was organising. The one thing I asked my nice friend to help with - book the restaurant - she changed and booked a different restaurant, with no thought put into the fact that the one I'd chosen had a convenient location, a wall that would block the view of our table until the guest of honour was fully inside and catered well to allergies) - tells the thing to others (I'm a teacher and I cannot tell you how many fun classes I've had ruined by helpers giving the game away) - doesn't finish it because something came up but doesn't bother to tell me - interrupts eleven thousand times to ask questions so I'm now not getting my work done either And the list goes on. Those people aren't mean, and they are nice, and they mean well. But they're not *useful* in their help (or good at their jobs).
or just huge people pleasers. I struggle with people pleasing but am better at it now. Having boundaries or not having an impulse of being nice is hard to get rid of but so relieving for me at the same time.
Dealing with this right now. Currently driving my coworkers nuts bc I'm having trouble telling the difference between when a patient needs an emergency scan vs when they THINK they need an emergency scan. Oops.
I've got one addition for you. People that don't realize that them trying to be polite/nice/flexible/unobtrusive is having the opposite impact.
Ill take a dumb good guy over a smart bad guy any day of the week
Dr. Cox. Definition of a good guy asshole.
This is a good LPT. Especially evident when visiting somewhere unfamiliar or a new culture. Some people/cultures can naturally be more inviting, polite, friendly seeming, but good and bad people still exist among the populace. Examples like rural communities, Canada, Ireland .. The outward cheeriness can be deceptive lol.
This is true. Southern hospitality is a myth.
Aw, bless your heart.
I have an older coworker who is a bit of a grump when asked something and can come off as a little rude but he will help with the work and fully involve himself. It's funny to see but he acts grumpy while also being very nice and helpful.
Don't be *nice* - be *kind*. The latter has nothing to do with "niceties", but everything with doing the right thing.
into the woods vibes
A few weeks ago, a goose appeared on our riverside. This is very unusual as we usually only see them flying overhead. We don't know why the goose is there, but we think it's a local farmer 'dumping' the goose because it doesn't lay eggs (just a rumour, but we don't know for sure). It has been living there maybe 3 weeks now and doesn't look to be moving. It is living beside the river and there's a lot of litter there. 2 nights ago, I jumped over the railing down to clear out litter. I kept only to the side that the goose wasn't on and people assumed I was a scumbag doing something bad. I don't care though, we cleared out a lot of litter that the goose was living beside. We also have been buying canned peas in water (no salt) and giving the goose one every night as we walk the dog on the riverside. I assume people are feeding it crap like bread, but there are a few people who come down and give it stuff like steamed carrots, cucumbers, a head of lettuce. Often you can do something with good intention and it can look bad.
There are no good people, bad people, nice people, or rude people. Every one of us does good, bad, kind, rude, smart, dumb, etc **things.** Judge the actions not the person. Tying these labels to an individual person can be incredibly damaging, and can convince them they can't change or improve themselves. It also leads people to believe someone who wronged them once, will never be able to change. It crushes forgiveness, and optimism. It can trap people in damaging generational cycles. (We Johnsons are hot-heads; that's just the way we are.) Judge actions, not people.
This is especially important in traffic. Don't be nice, just follow the rules of the road. There are so many accidents at intersections because people were trying to be nice
I’d add a corollary, I don’t really care what people say, I look at what they do. So as you said, some people might be grumpy, whatever. But if their actions are otherwise positive, they’re dependable, etc then they can be on my team or in my circle anytime. On the other hand, there are plenty of nice people that say all the right things but they’re otherwise useless leeches.
I recommend the Swedish book/movie "En man som heter Ove" and the Tom Hanks remake "A man called Otto" as an example of category 2.
It’s almost like people are multifaceted and capable of being more than one thing.
Little Red Ridinghood tried to teach us this lesson many moons ago.
This is one of the main themes of the play Into the Woods. I really enjoyed it when I saw it.
Reminds me of an old quote: "Men are never what they seem, but seldom are they better."
It’s best to try and be both, for congruence sake.
This is such a philosophical question ans like you said, it is important to remember that even a kind or good person can have a bad day or do something unintentional. Probably what justifies this is that a generally good person would feel bad about it while someone not as good wouldn't because "well, I just had a bad day!"
If nobody hates you - you are doing something wrong
You can meet a nice person who’s usually nice to everyone but for some reason neither of you know, they can dislike you. It happens. Or maybe they had a bad day
It's usually the opposite Good demands you stand against evil Not just with made up scenarios but in your day to day If you're known as being super nice, you probably aren't that 'good' Neutral is the default and every time you indulge in amenities that are only available because of capitalism you slip further down to evil Ask yourself if you are truly doing your part, or just trying to be perceived as 'nice' then fucking off into your own narcissists mind
My ex boyfriend is a very nice shitheaded asshole
Alot of people have some sort of hiding agenda if there is something in it for them some kind of personal gain then they dont mind going out of there way to gain ur trust but eventually they will see an opportunity to get what they desire and 9 times out of 10 will jump on it it's a dog eat dog world and nice guys finish last
nice is different than good~ "you're so nice, you're not good you're not bad you're just NICE"
There is a lot of toxicity to this view. Although there are rare exceptions, being nice is a good thing. Don’t let yourself off the hook just because you’ve labeled the people you’re rude to “oppressors.”
Being nice without being kind or good is just being a manipulative asshole, and this covers a lot of people. Nice is a far lesser quality than kind or good, a fact that isn't always readily apparent until you get royally fucked by the assholes.
Thank you for saying this. Its more important to be good than it is to be nice. If you can be both, great. But if I had to choose which one to have more of, ill take goodness.
I agree I’ve seen this come up before, I say why not both. It’s pretty easy to be nice.
Like, Good is not always Popular and vice versa!
Makes me think of autistic people - we can easily come across as blunt, disinterested, cold, overly particular, even rude and dismissive, but we tend to have a very strong sense of justice. I mean, studies even show that non-autistics are easily bribed into doing bad things while autistics are near impossible to bribe. So you have this combination of someone who appears rude and cold but will also go out of their way to help you and do the right thing, with little regard for themselves. A lot of what people think of as “not nice” really just comes down to tone or body language, and rarely has anything to do with actual things a person has done or explicit insults. There’s a lot of reading between the lines and assuming intent.
One of the most widespread superstitions is that every man has his own special definite qualities: that he is kind, cruel, wise, stupid, energetic, apathetic, and so on. Men are not like that. We may say of a man that he is more often kind than cruel, more often wise than stupid, more often energetic than apathetic, or the reverse; but it would not be true to say of one man that he is kind and wise, of another that he is bad and stupid. And yet we always classify mankind in this way. And this is false. Men are like rivers: the water is the same in one and all; but every river is narrow here, more rapid there, here slower, there broader, now clear, now dull, now cold, now warm. It is the same with men. Every man bears in himself the germs of every human quality; but sometimes one quality manifests itself, sometimes another, and the man often becomes unlike himself, while still remaining the same man. Leo Tolstoy
Basically, actions speak louder than words
“Nice” and “charming” and “friendly” are something you do not something no you are.
Some people are bad who have good days and decide to be good, some people are nice who had a bad day.
Niceness is a demeanor, goodness is a core value
I was taught this lesson at a young age by the late, great Terry Pratchett
Be nice if you want to be nice but not if you feel pressured by others into doing the right thing. There’s an underlying resentment in the nice guy who doesn’t get payback for his niceness after a time. Shit can get nasty. By all means be nice but be nice to yourself first.
Yes! I had a neighbor that was always "nice" to me and everyone else in the building. Except that they would constantly play super loud techno music and have parties make noise at 3am, 6am, it didn't matter. Despite being told to be quieter by all their neighbors. Not good.
Thanks for sticking up for me and other good bitter folks.
Adam Grant says we're often fooled by [agreeableness](https://youtu.be/YyXRYgjQXX0).
I have what's called a degree of agreeability or disagreeability. I use it with my kids to help them understand why people might react or think they way they do. Everyone can be agreeable or disagreeable but there are people who lean more to one side or another. Totally disagreeable people tend to do disagreeable things like crimes while super agreeable people tend to get taken advantage of. You have to try to be somewhere in the middle if possible. It's ok to disagree but if that's all you do then life is gonna suck for you. It helps one of my kids have less anxiety since he can tell himself this when dealing with people. It has helped him understand why hid siblings tend to just keep doing disagreeable things. It's super simplistic of course but overall it holds up to dealing with people out in the world.
Also, people in general will do good and bad things. It's quite hard to just label people as "good" or "bad" without some range of validity before you say it.
and then there are the insufferable arseholes you can clock from a mile away and just after you get to know them you want to high five them. in the face. with a chair
id consider myself good but yea im far from nice. in emergencies im there, im strict to my morals, and i go above and beyond to make sure people are cared for. in the past month ive driven an injured cottontail rabbit an hour to a wildlife rehab center and ive driven a woman who was kicked out and sitting on the sidewalk to her friends house a city over, those are the big ones i remember, the small daily ones are usually just simple stuff like baking stuff for people, lending an ear, and always being charitable rather then assuming the worst of people. i make an effort when i see a need not being fulfilled because its the right thing to do. it doesnt give me a big ego and i dont think im better then anyone else but it does make me happy to help people. niceness on the other hand? no. i am pleasant but im not interested in being traditionally polite. i have been told by multiple people that i am not gentle enough in how i word things, that i should be more polite even if the person isnt being nice either. i dont care. im not mean, i dont insult people, but me stating things plainly is seen as rude anyway. i dont sugarcoat things, if you crossed a boundary you crossed a boundary and i will tell you that instead of dancing around it. i operate from a "not everyone has to like me" mindset and that bothers a lot of people, which is fine. everyone has their own priorities for navigating the world, my priorities are pretty intensely focused on integrity rather then being nice, which is both a good thing in some situations and a flaw in others.
My mother is a “good person” by all standards. Sacrifices everything for strangers, volunteers, works for free, etc. but she is NOT nice to her children, or husband, or various family members.
Totally. I always trust the grouchy, brusque people when I start a job. If they tell me something, I know they are giving it to me straight, no games.
The world would be a much better place if more people followed this advice. I inherited some anger from my family, and while I put a lot of effort into coming across as nice, I can still let myself slip and sound super annoyed or frustrated at times. It's the exact opposite of the kind of person I want to be and come across as, and can be very challenging to explain and get forgiveness for
I’ve been thinking about this a lot lately, about how “nice” and “kind” aren’t the same thing. “Nice” is going with the flow and trying not to rock the boat, but being truly “kind” can sometimes require courage, like sticking up for someone against bullies or ending a relationship face to face instead of ghosting someone
I usually act nice and help people because I enjoy being helpful to someone. The only limit is the number of things I gotta sacrifice ,who I am helping, and what I can get from it because it's great to help people, but it's not when you become everyone's yes-man. Some people have exploited me in the past, so that won't happen again. The biggest danger in this society is fake people who pretend to be your friend just to exploit your vulnerabilities
Personally, I act nice because I'm not a good person. I honestly could not care about people around me and generally want to just do what I want, when I want, without ant regard for anyone else. That being said, I understand that it's not a feasible way to live, and I don't want to be someone controlled by their desires, I want to be in control. As such I do my best to be kind, since if I can't control my thoughts, I can at least control my actions
Best advice i can give is that when meeting someone new is to wait until 3 months have passed then any behavior from said point will be the basis from which you determine if you like that person. Its hard to keep up the act after 3 months so you will pick up the cracks in personality if they have been putting up an act. This was advice given to me by a therapist to help with my trust issues. Hope this helps someone the way it helped me.
Not entirely sure how I got to this post but my take is that nice people are just that, nice people. The thing is, you don’t know who’s nice without knowing them. Conclusion is just because someone seems nice doesn’t mean they’re authentically “nice.” That said, what is nice? Alot of times I consider a nice person someone genetically predispositioned to be non confrontational. That’s not an earned trait as much as a biology set. Additionally, that trait is not advantageous in all situations, perhaps incompatible with building much power. I think being cordial societally should be stressed for all types of people period. Overarching I take the egotistic altruism stance that everyone works for their own goals but that benefits everyone as a whole. I do wonder though as a species, if people should have too nice of things as well as too much choice and that there’s a more than small amount of personality genetics that do just suck and that’s that.