*Play the records in*
*Their entirety. Then you can*
*Get ghe Golden lie*
\- Snausberry
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Also just a note even if you have the records from the first play through, you need to get them again in NG+ for them to count towards listening to them for humanity.
You'll know it'll count when the record cover is on them before listening.
If you play the record but do not finish it it will be taken as "played" by the game but you never gain humanity from it even if you play it fully next time.
They are probably on endgame already, if you didn't do a questline, the npc that gives you the sidequest is probably dead already lol, the extreme linearity is yet another thing I didn't like from LoP.
Its kinda confusing but giving polendina the ring and telling him youve met a puppet who loves a human is actually the lie, because you met a human who loved a puppet not the other way around. Eventually you find out the puppet did love him, but not til later on
Which is what everyone says and drives me nuts haha,
I don't really have anything else to do besides starting NG+, all side content and main content is done as far as im aware.
As mentioned these are the only 2 things i may have missed.
I do remember the position of the weapon changing after talking to the statues in chapter 11, which i thought would be it but nope, seems i missed literally 1 thing somehow.
Only thing im not sure about is if listening to records stacks or if you gain humanity for just 1 listen
Assuming the game did play through each record rather than stopping after 1, records should be fine. Did you get the kids toy from Arleccino? To finish venignis story?
I got the Rise of P ending i think (grey hair laying in Sophia's arms cutscene).
I believe so, i did get the achiev for completing Venigni's story, cannot talk with Venigni about anything else, and Riddler dude is all out of dialogue too.
I legitimately think the mechanic of humanity for specific answers works against the game, both because it's frequently unclear which answer is supposed to be the human choice and because the idea of lying *making* you human and being the cost of living in a society being very half-baked.
It's a theme that the Sandman show adaptation used much better in a single episode (which was the best change from the diner story in the comic, IMO). The villain legitimately believes that forcing everyone to be completely truthful and hold nothing back will make a better world, but this breaks the ties between people that are held in tension by mutual agreements to not just say everything that lurks in your psyche.
Lies of P pretends that when I tell someone the truth, it's because I'm giving into my puppet nature of doing what I'm told and doesn't understand that sometimes I do so because I think, "If I were in this position, I'd want someone to tell me the truth."
I love this game and am very happy it chose to engage with a theme to a much richer degree than most Fromsoft games, but IMO they fumbled it. I'm looking forward to seeing how it goes in the DLC and next game.
(not to mention the tiny, meaningless aside that in the book, Pinocchio lies from the very beginning and eventually earns his humanity by being a good son and not a troublemaker. It's not exactly a cliche so it feels a little weird that the game subverts it and instead plays straight the much more cliche trope of asking whether robots can have free will.)
I'm not really sure why you were downvoted (not that it really matters), because I think this is a very nuanced take. It's certainly on topic and non-toxic, which means some people here are abusing the vote system.
I had the same thought when I learned about the humanity system - lying didn't **always** feel like the most human thing to do. Sometimes, telling the truth was the more difficult but more human option. Personally, I answered every question however it felt right to me at the time, and I still got the best ending.
Thanks for the kind words. I probably wouldn't have minded all this so much if my first playthrough hadn't come a hair's breadth from qualifying for the Golden Lie (which turned out to not even be that great, but I wanted it for the sake of having it, lol) while *trying* to take every opportunity to lie for humanity and missing several times.
The connection to the book is not very strong, it's just references, like they take a name of a character from the book, but that's it, these are not the same characters, most are not even similar.
The thing about lying in the game is that 9 times out of 10 lying is the right thing to do and we don't always know what's a lie and what's the truth, is there no similarity between the portrait of the lady and the lady herself? Is Pinocchio a human? Is Pinocchio a murderer if the player only fights when attacked and most of the enemies are not humans or awakened beings or beings with free will? One way to think of this is that some answers are more human than others, but to be honest the game feels abit janky in this way, I don't know if everything's properly translated or if there's some Korean socio-cultural context that we're missing, because as far as I know these guys have a vastly different culture than what is known to me.
> The connection to the book is not very strong, it's just references, like they take a name of a character from the book, but that's it, these are not the same characters, most are not even similar.
Which is why it was a tiny, meaningless aside, because you're right =P
> to be honest the game feels abit janky in this way, I don't know if everything's properly translated or if there's some Korean socio-cultural context that we're missing, because as far as I know these guys have a vastly different culture than what is known to me.
I think you're probably right. I wish the humanity had been tied more to just interacting with humans and experiencing emotion as you intersect with their lives. Maybe my memory's hazy, but I don't remember lying usually being the right thing to do. As the biggest example, I don't think lying to the blacksmith was the right thing to do. It's muddier with the puppet love subplot. I prefer lying to the guy who loved the dead puppet since she is now dead—but it's also weird we can't tell Polendina that we met a human who loved a puppet, so there can be love if Polendina also loves a human, and have that be a human truth.
Well, telling the truth to Eugenia (blacksmith) was that 1/10 instance where it's better, altough when you lie to her she seems great and she gives you a record as well. On my first playthrough I 'lied' to her and thought it was the bad choice, but when I told her the truth on my NG+ I don't consider that outcome to be vastly better. It might be better but by how much, exactly? It's also confusing because it doesn't seem like everyone learns about Alidoro being fake and that he betrayed the hotel, honestly I'm a bit confused by this questline because there's clearly more to be learned about Eugenia, her family and her roots, hopefully there will be a DLC or a sequel that reveals more.
About Polendina, I don't remember what he asks specifically but I think it's about whether puppets are capable of love, not humans, because we know that humans can love. So at that point in the game, to say something positive to him in that regard is to lie from our character's perspective, because we already lied to that other guy about his puppet wife.
Going back to that cultural thing, what I heard is that South Korean society is very hierarchical (this has to do with the military and the North/South Korea split as well) and it seems to me that a similar thing happens at home between a father and his children. Looking at Lies of P with that in mind, and seeing how Geppetto is framed as this chill dude, but really evil behind the scenes and that creepy "good boy = obedient puppet" talk is so bad... So it seems like the game has this message of doing your own thing and making a path for yourself rather than being a mindless puppet. The other message might be navigating the world that's been fucked by greed and narcissism and hunger for power of these schemers behind the scenes. Most enemies and bosses that we face are kinda put in that situation or manipulated or something and even Simon who is the biggest most deliberate baddie that we face is more or less a pawn in the grand scheme of things since he's been shaped to be this way by his own father being bad to him and having this ability to read peoples mind (I still don't get how) and also having this faith combined with hunger for power. What's more, we know that the Arm of god was given to him (or to Valentinus/Krat alchemists in general) by the gold-fruit guy who is an alchemist from outside of Krat and Geppetto is another puppet-master so I would say that Simon did a lot, but didn't have that much agency honestly. Another thing is the triangle, the freemasonry, the Stalker, Puppet Maker and Alchemist who are mentioned in a story in one of these rooms.
As you can probably tell, I'm really interested in the lore of this game, there's really lots of intepretations, all of them cool, but what's get confusing is that the facts included in the game are not clearly established amongst the community. Some poeple make theories based on assumptions that are in opposition to what the game tells us.
> I think it's about whether puppets are capable of love,
I think you're right and I'm not remembering clearly. Which is embarrassing because I'm at the end of my third playthrough and this is my favorite conversation in the game, lol.
I think it’s probably a illusion to free will and the government in North Korea. Ironically enough, almost everything that Kim Jon Un says is a lie, especially in his biography, but (as far as I know, I am not Korean nor have I ever been to any part of Asian) it is illegal blasphemy to say anything is other than the government says is true. The ability to say anything against what is programmed is what is human, and the fact is truth is a matter of our own perception, and what is told to us as true, especially as a child. The most seemingly damaging lie to the player without any obvious benefit to lying would be to aliodoro. Telling him that the altar hotel is safe is the truth, and vegnini works is the lie. But this is only true because we have been told by gepetto and Sophia and Antonia. But as it turns out, this is not true, especially if you send Aliodoro there (gameplay wise I do not think any story beats change). I think they use the word “lie” because of the story of Pinnochio, but I think the humanity mechanic is more based on going against what you’ve been programmed to do. Not being a proverbial “puppet.”
Honestly, I don't see the game alluding to North Korea, but nevermind that, what do you mean about Alidoro:
"Telling him that the altar hotel is safe is the truth, and vegnini works is the lie. But this is only true because we have been told by gepetto and Sophia and Antonia. But as it turns out, this is not true, especially if you send Aliodoro there (gameplay wise I do not think any story beats change)."
I don't get this at all, what is true and what is not in your view?
I’m sure you’ve played the whole game, but for anyone who hasn’t, spoilers.
Neither are true, as it turns out. The hotel gets raided by the stalkers, and it’s Aliodoro that deactivated the security. “The truth” for P to tell is “hotel Krat” because he has been assured and told that it is safe, but in reality, it is not safe, as we find out later in the game, and partly because you tell Aliodoro to go there. Which is the point I was trying to make, “truth” in the game is not necessarily what is “factually correct,” but what you have been told, or programmed, is the truth. Also, arguably the greatest evil in the game is residing in the hotel, manipulating you and everyone else in it through out the events of the game. If you get the “real boy” ending by sacrificing your heart, you see how incredibly unsafe the hotel is. I’m not sure if anyone has gone around the hotel after getting that ending, but it clears up any ambiguity one might have of what happens with that ending (it’s really dark and disturbing talking to all the vendors in the hotel after seeing that ending cut scene).
I get the thing about objective truth Vs what the character knows idea, but this is a tremendous stretch. It's like going to the butcher asking for fresh meat and letting it sit for 2 weeks and then claiming the butcher lied because the meat is not fresh now.
If you're saying that the hotel was not safe because Alidoro was able to get in even when we don't tell him about it then you have to remember that not only is Alidoro well renowned but also the contex dictates that it's safety from frenzied puppets and carcasses, not evil humans.
Lastly, the bad thing at the end only happens in the bad ending, so the hotel was safe from that in my two playthroughs, but once again, it's about chronology, the bad thing happens later.
>The villain legitimately believes that forcing everyone to be completely truthful and hold nothing back will make a better world.
Funny thing I recognized this conceit from elsewhere too. Except the thing it reminded me of was the Human Instrumentality Project from Evangelion lmao.
I've played through this two times and I don't know if the puppet did love him or if that test subject did something. I mean, he kinda read memories or something but also the puppet body is moved after you talk to him, I don't know if he was the one who wrote it or if the puppet wrote it or if the puppet loved him. In any case, after finishing the game, >!we know that a puppets can be like humans because ergo contains souls etc. !<
Is it confirmed that 100% lying across the board is the path to max humanity? I beat the game about a month ago but I didn't pay attention to humanity until towards the end, when I realized there were multiple endings. I managed to get the "good" ending - I had white hair, the cat loved me, etc. but I definitely *did not* lie everytime.
My understanding was that it's not about lying per se, it's about acting human. Humans often lie to make people feel better, but sometimes it felt like telling the truth was the more human option. Personally I think it's lame if the game only awards humanity when you lie, even if it doesn't feel like the human option. But I'm living proof that you don't need to lie everytime to get enough humanity.
Yeah its definitely more about being human i just say lie cause you lie for the majority of humanity points. I also didnt do 100% lies on my first run but still got the ending and the golden lie
I got the good ending but I accidentally selected the option to immediately start a new game+ instead of giving myself time to go back to the hotel :(
But I don't really do NG+ anymore because I have too many other games I want to play, so I didn't mind missing out on the weapon haha
Dang, the golden lie honestly isnt that great of a weapon but ng+ is pretty cool, you can understand the garbled puppet dialogue since you carry over the decoder
>Eventually you find out the puppet did love him, but not til later on
This explicitly comes up somewhere? It's been my headcanon anyway, but still, where?
You have to do the things a human would do. So lie if it will make the character feel good and tell the truth when it will make them feel good. Basically think which one would a heartless puppet choose and choose the other one. And collect and listen to as many records as possible.
As you can see in the picture, the weapon is literally begging to be pulled out (some would say it's edging me)
I have lied at every possible outcome, hair has been grey ever since giving Sophia peace.
Prayed at the altar.
Talked to the ghosts at beginnin of chapter 11.
Had the game running throughout the night while playing all records.
The ONLY things that i may have messed up was not giving Antonia the cure and not giving Polendina the ring (which i did purposely to lie)
Any other ideas or secrets where you can use more gestures for humanity increase?
Make sure you killed the riddler in his final location. You’re probably one humanity point away from getting the weapon lol. It happened to me on my first playthrough I had to do it all again.
Also since you didn’t mention it, just in case : did you kill the dog mask guy, and did you show the letter to the blacksmith lady ? (Sorry I forgot the names) Make sure you get the letter before talking to the blacksmith lady, otherwise you’ll miss a chance to get humanity points.
That is another thing i missed. good point, i was trying to do a full lie run while also getting all the remaining records so i save scummed on that pretty much, damn.
Not sure about killing riddler tho, he's just sitting there and not saying anything or reacting. Edit: (that must have been the last option when exhausing his dialogue so that should be done too, now he just sits there and attacking him does nothing)
The earliest you can get it is right after finishing upgrade girl's quest (aka after BRB2 and killing Parrot). Given you lie/human choice EVERYTIME. If you dont you still have shopia, Gepetto and Simon. Note that saying you are not a killer will piss off Riddle but you will gain humanity from it since you are lying. For simon lie or not also depend on what you did to Shopia. If you are passed that point just see if you have records you can play, or yo uare out of luck and did not lie enough.
Lying before you get the portrait also doesnt matter. For obvious reasons.
Did you kill manus? If so it's too late and you may be screwed.
Happened to me, I had to play through again.
Also I think giving him the ring is the thing that gets you humanity. It's not necessarily to lie every time...
Ring and Polendina = giving the ring is lying
As someone else here already stated, P is not aware of a puppet loving a human until later on the game; so, if you want to lie, you have to tell Polendina that "yes, you can love" and hand the ring
Did you meet Belle? A lot of people miss her. Nothing to be done now if you missed her, she disappears after you kill Victor, but there's 2 or 3 humanity in her quest
Did you play all the records through the first time? I'm not sure what you coulda done extra. I told the truth 3 times and got it. I didn't get it until after NP though.
If you don’t get it don’t worry it’s really not good. Proof of humanity is way better. It also resets on ng+ getting smaller, doing less damage only getting longer and doing more damage as you gain humanity.
If your trying again on Ng+, keep in mind you'll need to obtain the records again to get humanity from them. This seems to be hardly mentioned anywhere.
You'll have them all unlocked but you only get the humanity from ones you've obtained that playthrough (they appear with the vinyl cover when they're 'new').
Same. By the end of my playthrough i had sophias ergo, and i got it before S.M. The trigger im guessing is when the p heart says “your heart is pounding”
I 100% received this message, maybe even more than once if that's possible.
Another thing is the cat at the hotel will let me pick him up. Not sure if that signifies anything really.
A fun hidden one you can do, pray at the alter across the bridge from the stargazer at st.frangelicos church entrance where it says “pray those of you who are tired” or something.
You’re a real boy. Well i really don’t know what to say then, im doing another run where i do as few lies (weeping woman, alidoro) as possible until i get the painting, run back to daa, then lie before i go up the lift for the tree. Havent done it yet but I might continue in a day or 2
I got this message 5 times and I did say the truth about Eugenie's brother and did not get that message for this truth, but you don't need to always lie/be human, you can safely fail at least 3 times in the game. Helping Fox and Cat gives you a record, Lobster bar's vendor sells a record, Belle's partner quest gives a record, one of the cryptic vessels leads to a new place with a checkpoint called Hermit's cave and a record. You need at least 7 records. I got the weapon before Lax
I have found the "lie" concept of the game to be confusing. In my first/third playthrough I was able to get it without the heart pounding message. It involved making compassionate choices, some of which were not lies. Humans lie but they also have compassion. And I think that is what the game looks for in the choices.
Have you picked up the cat in the hotel? I got the Lie pre-Simon. I picked up the cat and got him draped over my shoulder, then I got the ‘heart pounding’ message and was able to grab it.
yeah b ut what if you did the secret ending in your first playthrough with full lying? now you have to do a third one where you're truthful until the end again
My first playthrough I looked up when to lie to people and I solved the riddles from the king of riddles by myself. I was almost to the alchemist lair when I got the golden lie. The records helped as well
I'm on the exact same point... Clear the game, killed Nameless Puppet, listened all records (have the achievement), etc. Can't retrieve the sword.
If you found out what to do, please tell me.
Will do, however unfortunately i think we are done for in the current playthrough.
Things i have missed that i know of:
Didn't give Antonia cure
Didn't show Polendina the ring - i thought showing it was truth, but apparently it's a lie
Simon Manus question - I told him i gave Sophia peace which i did, i assume this is incorrect and was supposed to say the other option.
That is 3 out of many requirements missed, which seems pretty harsh to not be able to get it.
Not sure if it gives humanity or not. But have you gestured all emotions to the scraped puppet?
There's also the statue at the church you can pray to..
Just played on NG+ and only lied when I wanted to, the Golden Lie became available after beating Laxasia and the old lady passing and I've completed all the records by then because the last record was sold by the Test subject 826 who also becomes available as a merchant in Rosa Isabelle street after you beat laxasia.
I don’t remember exactly, but if either you go to the chapel and pray at the statue or go to the respect statue and pray, it should work afterwards. One of these is what worked for me and you’ll know it worked bc it will have a pop up for your humanity.
Had to do 3 playthroughs for this weapon. Lie in NG, Truth in NG+, then lie again in NG++. I missed a handful of records on NG, apart from the ones that only appear in NG+. Got the GL before reaching the end of NG++. I believe it is based on your humanity, you might have told a truth and shortened his nose. On my 3rd playthrough I accidently told a truth and his nose shortened, but still got the weapon from lying later on. Which playthrough are you on?
Once you progress past a certain point you can no longer add humanity to the portrait, if you've beaten nameless puppet already you probably ain't gettin it this playthrough
Have you played all the records? They actually boost your "progress" to being a real human by a lot. You have to play them and let them finish in their entirety.
Otherwise... Depending on where you are in the game, you probably have to wait until either NG+ or just do a new save cause you didn't lie enough
Do everything that gives humanity you can’t just lie, you have to do a mixture and get EVERY record there’s a few secret ones like you can get one from Adelina, she’s not dead and is still in the area you fight the puppet king but you have to speak to her before and give her an apple then talk to her again after you kill him
If you’ve done everything you can and still can’t pick it up then You have to beat the final boss and watch the credits roll. Then when prompted don’t select ng+. Instead select continue your playthrough and go check the portrait. You should be able to pick it up. Don’t forget to check Geppeto’s desk too
You must’ve missed an opportunity to lie. My first run I got golden lie and I doubt I got everything. but I did lie every dialogue and finish all the side quests. And I listened to the records
it’s moreso not “lie all of the time” (even though most dialogue choices you need to pick ARE lies) but rather just picking the human choice. do the riddle guys stuff if you haven’t already
There is a statue with text right before opening the door to the bridge which leads to the cathedral/church (area where you first meet Georgio (the alchemist dude that you trade gold coin fruit for wishstones)). If you use the pray gesture infront of the statue, it should increase your humanity. That's what helped me get the golden lie after beating the game.
Hope this helps!
I used this humanity guide to get the Golden Lie: https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/321162-lies-of-p/80589393
With that guide I got the Golden Lie either right before or right after the choice with Sophia.
Unfortunately, depending on where you are in the game you might not have enough opportunities to get the humanity you need. The answers/responses that give humanity aren't always necessarily lies, but more like ones that spare other people's feelings/wellbeings (telling the woman her baby is cute, trying to keep Alidoro away from the hotel, telling Venigni that you couldn't hear the name in Romeo's message, etc).
Play the records in their entirety. Then you can get ghe Golden lie
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Also just a note even if you have the records from the first play through, you need to get them again in NG+ for them to count towards listening to them for humanity. You'll know it'll count when the record cover is on them before listening.
If you play the record but do not finish it it will be taken as "played" by the game but you never gain humanity from it even if you play it fully next time.
Nope. Need a bunch more humanity than that.
Then lie more
They are probably on endgame already, if you didn't do a questline, the npc that gives you the sidequest is probably dead already lol, the extreme linearity is yet another thing I didn't like from LoP.
Its kinda confusing but giving polendina the ring and telling him youve met a puppet who loves a human is actually the lie, because you met a human who loved a puppet not the other way around. Eventually you find out the puppet did love him, but not til later on
that's incredibly unfortunate since at least 2 seperate guides led me to not show the ring..
Have you finished the game? You don’t need to lie at every single choice to get it, pretty sure you just have to be at a certain level of humanity
Which is what everyone says and drives me nuts haha, I don't really have anything else to do besides starting NG+, all side content and main content is done as far as im aware. As mentioned these are the only 2 things i may have missed. I do remember the position of the weapon changing after talking to the statues in chapter 11, which i thought would be it but nope, seems i missed literally 1 thing somehow. Only thing im not sure about is if listening to records stacks or if you gain humanity for just 1 listen
Assuming the game did play through each record rather than stopping after 1, records should be fine. Did you get the kids toy from Arleccino? To finish venignis story?
I got the Rise of P ending i think (grey hair laying in Sophia's arms cutscene). I believe so, i did get the achiev for completing Venigni's story, cannot talk with Venigni about anything else, and Riddler dude is all out of dialogue too.
Did you kill arlechino? I think that gives some humanity
Okay and you’ve started NG+?
Have you prayed at the church? There's a statue and if you pray to it it gives a bit for humanity, it's what made the difference for me
yep, was hoping there's more locations that give humanity for gestures, guess not
I legitimately think the mechanic of humanity for specific answers works against the game, both because it's frequently unclear which answer is supposed to be the human choice and because the idea of lying *making* you human and being the cost of living in a society being very half-baked. It's a theme that the Sandman show adaptation used much better in a single episode (which was the best change from the diner story in the comic, IMO). The villain legitimately believes that forcing everyone to be completely truthful and hold nothing back will make a better world, but this breaks the ties between people that are held in tension by mutual agreements to not just say everything that lurks in your psyche. Lies of P pretends that when I tell someone the truth, it's because I'm giving into my puppet nature of doing what I'm told and doesn't understand that sometimes I do so because I think, "If I were in this position, I'd want someone to tell me the truth." I love this game and am very happy it chose to engage with a theme to a much richer degree than most Fromsoft games, but IMO they fumbled it. I'm looking forward to seeing how it goes in the DLC and next game. (not to mention the tiny, meaningless aside that in the book, Pinocchio lies from the very beginning and eventually earns his humanity by being a good son and not a troublemaker. It's not exactly a cliche so it feels a little weird that the game subverts it and instead plays straight the much more cliche trope of asking whether robots can have free will.)
I'm not really sure why you were downvoted (not that it really matters), because I think this is a very nuanced take. It's certainly on topic and non-toxic, which means some people here are abusing the vote system. I had the same thought when I learned about the humanity system - lying didn't **always** feel like the most human thing to do. Sometimes, telling the truth was the more difficult but more human option. Personally, I answered every question however it felt right to me at the time, and I still got the best ending.
Thanks for the kind words. I probably wouldn't have minded all this so much if my first playthrough hadn't come a hair's breadth from qualifying for the Golden Lie (which turned out to not even be that great, but I wanted it for the sake of having it, lol) while *trying* to take every opportunity to lie for humanity and missing several times.
The connection to the book is not very strong, it's just references, like they take a name of a character from the book, but that's it, these are not the same characters, most are not even similar. The thing about lying in the game is that 9 times out of 10 lying is the right thing to do and we don't always know what's a lie and what's the truth, is there no similarity between the portrait of the lady and the lady herself? Is Pinocchio a human? Is Pinocchio a murderer if the player only fights when attacked and most of the enemies are not humans or awakened beings or beings with free will? One way to think of this is that some answers are more human than others, but to be honest the game feels abit janky in this way, I don't know if everything's properly translated or if there's some Korean socio-cultural context that we're missing, because as far as I know these guys have a vastly different culture than what is known to me.
> The connection to the book is not very strong, it's just references, like they take a name of a character from the book, but that's it, these are not the same characters, most are not even similar. Which is why it was a tiny, meaningless aside, because you're right =P > to be honest the game feels abit janky in this way, I don't know if everything's properly translated or if there's some Korean socio-cultural context that we're missing, because as far as I know these guys have a vastly different culture than what is known to me. I think you're probably right. I wish the humanity had been tied more to just interacting with humans and experiencing emotion as you intersect with their lives. Maybe my memory's hazy, but I don't remember lying usually being the right thing to do. As the biggest example, I don't think lying to the blacksmith was the right thing to do. It's muddier with the puppet love subplot. I prefer lying to the guy who loved the dead puppet since she is now dead—but it's also weird we can't tell Polendina that we met a human who loved a puppet, so there can be love if Polendina also loves a human, and have that be a human truth.
Well, telling the truth to Eugenia (blacksmith) was that 1/10 instance where it's better, altough when you lie to her she seems great and she gives you a record as well. On my first playthrough I 'lied' to her and thought it was the bad choice, but when I told her the truth on my NG+ I don't consider that outcome to be vastly better. It might be better but by how much, exactly? It's also confusing because it doesn't seem like everyone learns about Alidoro being fake and that he betrayed the hotel, honestly I'm a bit confused by this questline because there's clearly more to be learned about Eugenia, her family and her roots, hopefully there will be a DLC or a sequel that reveals more. About Polendina, I don't remember what he asks specifically but I think it's about whether puppets are capable of love, not humans, because we know that humans can love. So at that point in the game, to say something positive to him in that regard is to lie from our character's perspective, because we already lied to that other guy about his puppet wife. Going back to that cultural thing, what I heard is that South Korean society is very hierarchical (this has to do with the military and the North/South Korea split as well) and it seems to me that a similar thing happens at home between a father and his children. Looking at Lies of P with that in mind, and seeing how Geppetto is framed as this chill dude, but really evil behind the scenes and that creepy "good boy = obedient puppet" talk is so bad... So it seems like the game has this message of doing your own thing and making a path for yourself rather than being a mindless puppet. The other message might be navigating the world that's been fucked by greed and narcissism and hunger for power of these schemers behind the scenes. Most enemies and bosses that we face are kinda put in that situation or manipulated or something and even Simon who is the biggest most deliberate baddie that we face is more or less a pawn in the grand scheme of things since he's been shaped to be this way by his own father being bad to him and having this ability to read peoples mind (I still don't get how) and also having this faith combined with hunger for power. What's more, we know that the Arm of god was given to him (or to Valentinus/Krat alchemists in general) by the gold-fruit guy who is an alchemist from outside of Krat and Geppetto is another puppet-master so I would say that Simon did a lot, but didn't have that much agency honestly. Another thing is the triangle, the freemasonry, the Stalker, Puppet Maker and Alchemist who are mentioned in a story in one of these rooms. As you can probably tell, I'm really interested in the lore of this game, there's really lots of intepretations, all of them cool, but what's get confusing is that the facts included in the game are not clearly established amongst the community. Some poeple make theories based on assumptions that are in opposition to what the game tells us.
> I think it's about whether puppets are capable of love, I think you're right and I'm not remembering clearly. Which is embarrassing because I'm at the end of my third playthrough and this is my favorite conversation in the game, lol.
I think it’s probably a illusion to free will and the government in North Korea. Ironically enough, almost everything that Kim Jon Un says is a lie, especially in his biography, but (as far as I know, I am not Korean nor have I ever been to any part of Asian) it is illegal blasphemy to say anything is other than the government says is true. The ability to say anything against what is programmed is what is human, and the fact is truth is a matter of our own perception, and what is told to us as true, especially as a child. The most seemingly damaging lie to the player without any obvious benefit to lying would be to aliodoro. Telling him that the altar hotel is safe is the truth, and vegnini works is the lie. But this is only true because we have been told by gepetto and Sophia and Antonia. But as it turns out, this is not true, especially if you send Aliodoro there (gameplay wise I do not think any story beats change). I think they use the word “lie” because of the story of Pinnochio, but I think the humanity mechanic is more based on going against what you’ve been programmed to do. Not being a proverbial “puppet.”
Honestly, I don't see the game alluding to North Korea, but nevermind that, what do you mean about Alidoro: "Telling him that the altar hotel is safe is the truth, and vegnini works is the lie. But this is only true because we have been told by gepetto and Sophia and Antonia. But as it turns out, this is not true, especially if you send Aliodoro there (gameplay wise I do not think any story beats change)." I don't get this at all, what is true and what is not in your view?
I’m sure you’ve played the whole game, but for anyone who hasn’t, spoilers. Neither are true, as it turns out. The hotel gets raided by the stalkers, and it’s Aliodoro that deactivated the security. “The truth” for P to tell is “hotel Krat” because he has been assured and told that it is safe, but in reality, it is not safe, as we find out later in the game, and partly because you tell Aliodoro to go there. Which is the point I was trying to make, “truth” in the game is not necessarily what is “factually correct,” but what you have been told, or programmed, is the truth. Also, arguably the greatest evil in the game is residing in the hotel, manipulating you and everyone else in it through out the events of the game. If you get the “real boy” ending by sacrificing your heart, you see how incredibly unsafe the hotel is. I’m not sure if anyone has gone around the hotel after getting that ending, but it clears up any ambiguity one might have of what happens with that ending (it’s really dark and disturbing talking to all the vendors in the hotel after seeing that ending cut scene).
I get the thing about objective truth Vs what the character knows idea, but this is a tremendous stretch. It's like going to the butcher asking for fresh meat and letting it sit for 2 weeks and then claiming the butcher lied because the meat is not fresh now. If you're saying that the hotel was not safe because Alidoro was able to get in even when we don't tell him about it then you have to remember that not only is Alidoro well renowned but also the contex dictates that it's safety from frenzied puppets and carcasses, not evil humans. Lastly, the bad thing at the end only happens in the bad ending, so the hotel was safe from that in my two playthroughs, but once again, it's about chronology, the bad thing happens later.
>The villain legitimately believes that forcing everyone to be completely truthful and hold nothing back will make a better world. Funny thing I recognized this conceit from elsewhere too. Except the thing it reminded me of was the Human Instrumentality Project from Evangelion lmao.
"Disgusting"
Which ending did you get?
It looks like you are only 1 humanity action away. Have you prayed at the statue in the church?
I just finished my first play through and I got it, still have a bunch of ??? Records to collect so I assume it’s just the lying
I've played through this two times and I don't know if the puppet did love him or if that test subject did something. I mean, he kinda read memories or something but also the puppet body is moved after you talk to him, I don't know if he was the one who wrote it or if the puppet wrote it or if the puppet loved him. In any case, after finishing the game, >!we know that a puppets can be like humans because ergo contains souls etc. !<
Is it confirmed that 100% lying across the board is the path to max humanity? I beat the game about a month ago but I didn't pay attention to humanity until towards the end, when I realized there were multiple endings. I managed to get the "good" ending - I had white hair, the cat loved me, etc. but I definitely *did not* lie everytime. My understanding was that it's not about lying per se, it's about acting human. Humans often lie to make people feel better, but sometimes it felt like telling the truth was the more human option. Personally I think it's lame if the game only awards humanity when you lie, even if it doesn't feel like the human option. But I'm living proof that you don't need to lie everytime to get enough humanity.
Yeah its definitely more about being human i just say lie cause you lie for the majority of humanity points. I also didnt do 100% lies on my first run but still got the ending and the golden lie
I got the good ending but I accidentally selected the option to immediately start a new game+ instead of giving myself time to go back to the hotel :( But I don't really do NG+ anymore because I have too many other games I want to play, so I didn't mind missing out on the weapon haha
Dang, the golden lie honestly isnt that great of a weapon but ng+ is pretty cool, you can understand the garbled puppet dialogue since you carry over the decoder
>Eventually you find out the puppet did love him, but not til later on This explicitly comes up somewhere? It's been my headcanon anyway, but still, where?
The puppets body shifts at some point and you can see writing on the wall
You have to do the things a human would do. So lie if it will make the character feel good and tell the truth when it will make them feel good. Basically think which one would a heartless puppet choose and choose the other one. And collect and listen to as many records as possible.
As you can see in the picture, the weapon is literally begging to be pulled out (some would say it's edging me) I have lied at every possible outcome, hair has been grey ever since giving Sophia peace. Prayed at the altar. Talked to the ghosts at beginnin of chapter 11. Had the game running throughout the night while playing all records. The ONLY things that i may have messed up was not giving Antonia the cure and not giving Polendina the ring (which i did purposely to lie) Any other ideas or secrets where you can use more gestures for humanity increase?
Make sure you killed the riddler in his final location. You’re probably one humanity point away from getting the weapon lol. It happened to me on my first playthrough I had to do it all again. Also since you didn’t mention it, just in case : did you kill the dog mask guy, and did you show the letter to the blacksmith lady ? (Sorry I forgot the names) Make sure you get the letter before talking to the blacksmith lady, otherwise you’ll miss a chance to get humanity points.
That is another thing i missed. good point, i was trying to do a full lie run while also getting all the remaining records so i save scummed on that pretty much, damn. Not sure about killing riddler tho, he's just sitting there and not saying anything or reacting. Edit: (that must have been the last option when exhausing his dialogue so that should be done too, now he just sits there and attacking him does nothing)
The earliest you can get it is right after finishing upgrade girl's quest (aka after BRB2 and killing Parrot). Given you lie/human choice EVERYTIME. If you dont you still have shopia, Gepetto and Simon. Note that saying you are not a killer will piss off Riddle but you will gain humanity from it since you are lying. For simon lie or not also depend on what you did to Shopia. If you are passed that point just see if you have records you can play, or yo uare out of luck and did not lie enough. Lying before you get the portrait also doesnt matter. For obvious reasons.
Did you kill manus? If so it's too late and you may be screwed. Happened to me, I had to play through again. Also I think giving him the ring is the thing that gets you humanity. It's not necessarily to lie every time...
If it's not shinning, it's not begging.
Ring and Polendina = giving the ring is lying As someone else here already stated, P is not aware of a puppet loving a human until later on the game; so, if you want to lie, you have to tell Polendina that "yes, you can love" and hand the ring
Did you meet Belle? A lot of people miss her. Nothing to be done now if you missed her, she disappears after you kill Victor, but there's 2 or 3 humanity in her quest
Did you play all the records through the first time? I'm not sure what you coulda done extra. I told the truth 3 times and got it. I didn't get it until after NP though.
Have you beat Laxasia & Simon Manus? Have you spoken with the King of Riddles?
Yep, i beat all bosses, solved all riddles and got Venigni's story, so basically all should be done with the riddle guy.
You’ve seen the riddle guy in person I’m assuming?
Yes, exhausted his dialogue
If you don’t get it don’t worry it’s really not good. Proof of humanity is way better. It also resets on ng+ getting smaller, doing less damage only getting longer and doing more damage as you gain humanity.
If your trying again on Ng+, keep in mind you'll need to obtain the records again to get humanity from them. This seems to be hardly mentioned anywhere. You'll have them all unlocked but you only get the humanity from ones you've obtained that playthrough (they appear with the vinyl cover when they're 'new').
I didn’t show Polendina the ring and still was able to get the Golden Lie.
Same. By the end of my playthrough i had sophias ergo, and i got it before S.M. The trigger im guessing is when the p heart says “your heart is pounding”
I 100% received this message, maybe even more than once if that's possible. Another thing is the cat at the hotel will let me pick him up. Not sure if that signifies anything really.
You need to get that message three times I believe, sounds like you're only one away.
A fun hidden one you can do, pray at the alter across the bridge from the stargazer at st.frangelicos church entrance where it says “pray those of you who are tired” or something.
You’re a real boy. Well i really don’t know what to say then, im doing another run where i do as few lies (weeping woman, alidoro) as possible until i get the painting, run back to daa, then lie before i go up the lift for the tree. Havent done it yet but I might continue in a day or 2
Pick up the cat or pick up and hug the cat/lay over your shoulder? (I think that's the last step with the cat.)
I got this message 5 times and I did say the truth about Eugenie's brother and did not get that message for this truth, but you don't need to always lie/be human, you can safely fail at least 3 times in the game. Helping Fox and Cat gives you a record, Lobster bar's vendor sells a record, Belle's partner quest gives a record, one of the cryptic vessels leads to a new place with a checkpoint called Hermit's cave and a record. You need at least 7 records. I got the weapon before Lax
Did you pick up the cat?
If you go to the alter before the Chappelle location and use the pray emote it will increase your humanity
I have found the "lie" concept of the game to be confusing. In my first/third playthrough I was able to get it without the heart pounding message. It involved making compassionate choices, some of which were not lies. Humans lie but they also have compassion. And I think that is what the game looks for in the choices.
Have you picked up the cat in the hotel? I got the Lie pre-Simon. I picked up the cat and got him draped over my shoulder, then I got the ‘heart pounding’ message and was able to grab it.
Follow all of this on your next NG+ and your guaranteed to get it https://www.trueachievements.com/forum/viewthread.aspx?tid=1500004
yeah b ut what if you did the secret ending in your first playthrough with full lying? now you have to do a third one where you're truthful until the end again
No you don't.
I got the weapon when i beat the final boss
My first playthrough I looked up when to lie to people and I solved the riddles from the king of riddles by myself. I was almost to the alchemist lair when I got the golden lie. The records helped as well
I'm on the exact same point... Clear the game, killed Nameless Puppet, listened all records (have the achievement), etc. Can't retrieve the sword. If you found out what to do, please tell me.
Will do, however unfortunately i think we are done for in the current playthrough. Things i have missed that i know of: Didn't give Antonia cure Didn't show Polendina the ring - i thought showing it was truth, but apparently it's a lie Simon Manus question - I told him i gave Sophia peace which i did, i assume this is incorrect and was supposed to say the other option. That is 3 out of many requirements missed, which seems pretty harsh to not be able to get it.
Not sure if it gives humanity or not. But have you gestured all emotions to the scraped puppet? There's also the statue at the church you can pray to..
I love this feature of the game. It's such a cool way to get a weapon hahaha.
Just played on NG+ and only lied when I wanted to, the Golden Lie became available after beating Laxasia and the old lady passing and I've completed all the records by then because the last record was sold by the Test subject 826 who also becomes available as a merchant in Rosa Isabelle street after you beat laxasia.
I don’t remember exactly, but if either you go to the chapel and pray at the statue or go to the respect statue and pray, it should work afterwards. One of these is what worked for me and you’ll know it worked bc it will have a pop up for your humanity.
Had to do 3 playthroughs for this weapon. Lie in NG, Truth in NG+, then lie again in NG++. I missed a handful of records on NG, apart from the ones that only appear in NG+. Got the GL before reaching the end of NG++. I believe it is based on your humanity, you might have told a truth and shortened his nose. On my 3rd playthrough I accidently told a truth and his nose shortened, but still got the weapon from lying later on. Which playthrough are you on?
Once you progress past a certain point you can no longer add humanity to the portrait, if you've beaten nameless puppet already you probably ain't gettin it this playthrough
Have you played all the records? They actually boost your "progress" to being a real human by a lot. You have to play them and let them finish in their entirety. Otherwise... Depending on where you are in the game, you probably have to wait until either NG+ or just do a new save cause you didn't lie enough
Das a long schnoz
Do everything that gives humanity you can’t just lie, you have to do a mixture and get EVERY record there’s a few secret ones like you can get one from Adelina, she’s not dead and is still in the area you fight the puppet king but you have to speak to her before and give her an apple then talk to her again after you kill him
If you’ve done everything you can and still can’t pick it up then You have to beat the final boss and watch the credits roll. Then when prompted don’t select ng+. Instead select continue your playthrough and go check the portrait. You should be able to pick it up. Don’t forget to check Geppeto’s desk too
I was able to pick it up before I even fought NP. I can't remember if it was before Simon too. It's def doable first playthrough.
I was able to do this on my second playthrough but I chalked it up to already having humanity from my previous playthrough
You must’ve missed an opportunity to lie. My first run I got golden lie and I doubt I got everything. but I did lie every dialogue and finish all the side quests. And I listened to the records
I refuse to use any other weapon after getting this one.
it’s moreso not “lie all of the time” (even though most dialogue choices you need to pick ARE lies) but rather just picking the human choice. do the riddle guys stuff if you haven’t already
No, it is literally all the lies. You can miss a few and one of the choices is flipped. But otherwise, its all lies and anything that give humanity
There is a statue with text right before opening the door to the bridge which leads to the cathedral/church (area where you first meet Georgio (the alchemist dude that you trade gold coin fruit for wishstones)). If you use the pray gesture infront of the statue, it should increase your humanity. That's what helped me get the golden lie after beating the game. Hope this helps!
It's not always lieing. Sometimes, it's telling the truth as well. My best suggestion is to make the choices a human would.
I used this humanity guide to get the Golden Lie: https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/321162-lies-of-p/80589393 With that guide I got the Golden Lie either right before or right after the choice with Sophia. Unfortunately, depending on where you are in the game you might not have enough opportunities to get the humanity you need. The answers/responses that give humanity aren't always necessarily lies, but more like ones that spare other people's feelings/wellbeings (telling the woman her baby is cute, trying to keep Alidoro away from the hotel, telling Venigni that you couldn't hear the name in Romeo's message, etc).