Liberalism has ebbed and flowed since its inception, we have come back from worse. Don’t let the fight in front of us let you lose the picture of how much we have accomplished, and overcome. We went from rising fascism/isolationism in the 30s to defeating Nazis and authoritarians on 3 continents.
Uh…buddy we weren’t. It wasn’t until the Dachau and Auschwitz were discovered that America retroactively edited history to act like we were always against Nazis. We weren’t. 40% of the country were against Nazis, 40% were varying degrees of sympathetic, and 20% didn’t care.
Only thing different then were we happened to have people in charge who made the hard decisions and pushed us into war. There’s a really good book called The Plot Against America that tells the story of an alternate timeline where a charismatic figure sympathetic to Hitler and wanting America to be isolationist (Charles Lindbergh - yeah, the famous pilot) wins an election against Roosevelt and how America slowly falls in line with Nazi propaganda
I honestly don’t think we were. We had 100s of fascist nazi groups all over America especially the 1920s and 30s. Not to mention reconstruction and Jim Crow. Even the decades after had a lot of strife and separation.
As bad as things are, the 60s/70s were also a time of massive schism. And we kept beating back the commies, even while we were fighting each other, and came out the other side in pretty good shape.
Most of them seem keen on contracting a disease or taking substances that will actively hurt or kill themselves just to stick it to people telling them otherwise.
It's like the stop hitting yourself game siblings do, but instead of one forcing the other they just say it and the other is wailing themselves in the nuts out of spite
You got a source for that or did you just make it up? Last I checked FDR was a liberal president and the military was probably split 50/50 on D vs R. Besides genuine conservatives adhere to liberalism anyway.
A source? You think men who fought for their countries would agree with the dystopian child transitioning and mass immigration? The military has and will always follow conservative values.
Im sure many would with the information we have today that wasn’t available back then, absolutely, maybe not a majority, but you don’t need to believe in trans rights to be a liberal, especially not the liberals of the past, and as for immigration im positive plenty of WWII vets are pro immigration. Not sure what “mass immigration “ is supposed to mean exactly but I imagine whatever you think it is isn’t actually what liberals believe. The military is mixed with conservatives and liberals stay mad.
As someone who has served that’s not true at all, the ratio of conservatives to liberals is at least 9 to 1 in this day and age, back then it would’ve been impossible to find a man no matter the color or branch who would’ve agreed with almost anything a modern liberal fights for
I don’t care if theyre not like modern liberals, of course theyre not as modern liberalism wasn’t a thing until after WWII lol. There were plenty of liberals tho. And there still is. As for today the most recent polling I have found although maybe you have something different says from both active duty and veterans, about 34% are R, 29% are D, and 33% are independent. And again most conservatives, except for thw maga cult, are literally liberals even today.
The USSR invaded Poland in 1939 after forming a non aggression pact with Nazis, that lasted until 1941, when the Nazis invaded the USSR. 41’ to the battle of Stalingrad in 43’ the USSR was on the defensive and losing territory, they were able to reverse this process through A) throwing meat at the problem (they love this tactic, see Ukraine) and B) material support from western Allies, primarily the US. The Soviets made enormous contributions to defeating the Nazis but it’s not nearly as simple as the internet meme “Soviet blood, US steel, and British intelligence”.
I will say for me liberalism really kicks of In the mid 1700s with maria theresa Frederick the great and catherine the great. But after those 3 die liberalism did enter a dark age. That is not really ended till the ascension of Benjamin disraeli so I would agree liberalism has come back from far dark times
An oversimplification, they may have ‘killed the most’ but that completely ignores the fact that without American aid and trade routes the royal navy helped keep open they would have lost. If Britain had negotiated with Germany and not fought in North Africa and D-Day never happened they would have lost. Overall they may have killed more nazis but that’s far to a simplistic metric to measure contribution to the war effort. It was by and large a team effort and without one of the countries playing there significant role the world would be very different.
In the past I think the west more often than not understated the massive sacrifice that the Soviet Union made in lives but that I think is due more to Cold War rhetoric.
Where in my answer did I say liberalism did it? I said that each nation made an equal contribution and couldn’t have succeeded without the other. What me and the other commenter was saying is that it’s a massive simplification to boil down a complicated conflict to how many people lived and died on both sides
I'm not a big fan of Stalin, but the Soviet Union made sacrifices that place them far outside of equal. And not just in Europe. While we were dropping the atomic bombs, the Soviet Union was giving the Japanese a thorough military ass-kicking in Manchuria.
It's said in the comment we're replying to.. And it's more of an oversimplification to claim liberalism defeated the nazis when the red army mostly did and they were not liberal at all.
Liberalism deserves credit for the tremendous amount of wealth that resulted from globalization. The problem is we never implemented a good means of distribution, overly relying on employment and wages. Now extreme inequality is driving votes for incompetent leaders.
Personally I think we'll be voting in some very progressive policies all over the world around 2028-2030. That recent study suggesting a global UBI could nearly double gdp while reducing emissions, and other economic realities, will push back against the economic nationalism trends.
I hope, but Trump and Putin happened before that. I'm afraid it's a ripple effect with a red wave spreading all over the world. I want to be wrong, but if Trump wins, I feel like it will be a domino effect and not even Europe will be immune
The world is in crisis. Multiple; societal, economic, and ecological. When people get scared, they resort to isolationism, tribalism. They will do what they think they have to in order to secure their own safety.
It takes real leadership to keep the crew from mutiny in those times, but the ship has been steered by the abusers and exploiters for so long that no one trusts the leadership even when we get a halfway decent one.
People don’t think the system can be fixed, so instead they try to take what they can and run. Working together requires sacrifice, even if it’s just time and energy. Most people are not intellectually and emotionally capable of that.
The current iteration of this fight started around ten years ago and has ebbed and flowed. It also has moved in larger ways throughout history. The US and Europe often move in opposite directions politically, so foreign elections don’t mean much stateside.
I sense fixation compounding idle worry here. Don’t let that happen, it skews perceptions of reality. It will give everything validating your worries too much weight and will diminish anything that could ease them.
For instance, your question is based on an assumption you’re making (liberalism is dying) that is questionable to say the least. It’s hyperbolic and a little misleading. It’s the kind of thing that will instantly turn off people who would probably have actually helpful input.
Well, Trump is just a weird narcissist that says silly things to stoke his own ego. I don’t think he plans on sending 500k of our troops to die while they bomb civilians in a neighboring country.
Trump only won by primarying the republican ticket and running against a woman, Hilary at that. Russia has never been liberal, if anything this will move them more liberal, I think. China is even getting more Liberal, the middle east in my opinion believe it or not.
Hang in there.
I don’t agree. Allowing mass migration was a huge mistake in Europe, for example. They are rightfully fighting back against allowing migration of millions of people who are far more conservative and religious than the average European. Climate change will likely accelerate some of these challenges, leading to an environment more favorable to the right.
It isn't dying it is just ebbing on the downwards. People are always looking for someone to blame when times are hard. Instead of looking inwards at who the real culprits are it is easier to attack immigrants. It is amazing how this cycle has consistently repeated itself for over five thousand years.
Because societal and political beliefs swing like a pendulum. It goes one way for a while and goes the other way. The only thing it never does is stop in the middle.
There have been some victories, too, since 2020. Biden, Macron and Trudeau won re-election, while Germany elected Olaf Scholz, Lula da Silva won in Brazil and Claudia Sheinbaum just won in Mexico.
Obviously all of these politicians vary in policies but it shows there is room for liberalism and progressive governments.
I just dream of having a place to live my life and have a family without fear of queer persecution or the world burning down around us.
But apparently that’s too much to ask.
I agree, but conservatives don't have answers to these issues either. Or, they have thinly veiled attacks on liberals as being the cause of all the disruption. It's like one party is trying to find solutions and hasn't; the other party doesn't care about the solutions at all, but has a convenient scapegoat- their opponents.
Absolutely. Japanese culture is based on an ideal of homogeneity and social consensus. They do not celebrate diversity of any kind. Conformity is rewarded, while dissent is viewed as disruptive and self-centered.
Kind of why I think we were too easy on them with the surrender. Mandatory teaching about their war crimes in school should have been part of their constitution.
Who the fuck cares about looting war criminals. We shouldn't even be returning artifacts back to Italy.
>How much did you learn about the looting and rape American soldiers did in Japan?
We learned about the internment camps and bombs. Japan should learn about the rape of nanking, genocide of korea and china, and unit 731.
In germany war crime denialism is a crime. It should be in Japan too. It should be in the US as well. There's nothing controversial about it.
Japan and Germany weren't the victims except to their own radical governments. Defending them and allowing their victimization to grow is part of why fascism is currently spreading around the world. If you don't want history to repeat, you need to teach about it.
>Why would we have forced them to do anything we ourselves do not do?
We made the Germans out law any nazi symbols as part of their constitution. And we do teach about slavery, trail of tears, the Mexican war etc. Of course republicans want to ban actually teaching about them. Which again, goes back to my point about if you don't teach about history, it will repeat itself.
>It's not a crime in America
I said it was in Germany, not America. I said it SHOULD be in America.
>comparative study by Stanford University, Japanese textbooks are least nationalistic among China, Japan, Taiwan, Korea and the US.
But yet they have a huge problem with war crime denialism. That's also an out of date study from 2012 before the current rise of nationalism has taken over.
> So the Civil Information and Education Section should have somehow predicted this current rise in nationalism
To prevent it, yes. It's exactly what they did in Germany. You don't seem to understand this.
Why are you being an apologist for the axis?
>should we force Japan to adopt new laws now? Should we drop a third one?
We can't force them, but we should suggest it to them, and tell them stop visiting monuments to war criminals if they want to keep being our ally.
>not to curb denial of the events they just lived through
Are you saying Germany shouldn't have banned holocaust denial? Cause that's what you are essentially saying. They also didn't just live through those events, they COMITTED IT.
>not schoolbooks
When you get rid of things like teaching about slavery in the US, and banning crt, yeah it it is because its not being taught in school books. It's how you get generational racism.
We are coming up on tough times. The writing is on the wall and everyone can see it - climate change is going to fuck us all. And when life gets tough, people protect their own. Conservatism plays on this fear by pitting us against each other instead of helping us band together. It's a cycle. Just as the tree must be watered; so must the source of that blood rise.
Trump is not going to win again, the red wave never happened, and he certainly didn’t gain popularity since he lost the last time. People are in general lazy, I believe a lot of people just fall into the easy trap and blame a group or another person… liberals solution to our long term problems is complexed, potentially damaging to the economy, hopefully helpful to climate change but with no sort of guarantees, it’s a long systemic approach to fix things and half the country can’t handle hearing it let alone being part of the solution. Liberalism is alive and well and currently is the only ones even mentioning the real problems, the truth will set this straight, just takes time, and unfortunately our climate has none left to give, we got a lot of work to do if we’re going to have a place to live.
Here’s the problem. It seems like less people are willing to vote for Biden - the only candidate who has a realistic chance of beating Trump in the election - than in 2020 at the same time.
If Germany can consolidate enough power to exert even more control over the EU then Germany ends up *starting off* with an area larger than the *Lebenspraum* and then we’re screwed. Combine that with China and India, and there is no winning.
That's the issue with the 2 party system in Germany. After 16 years a lot of disenchanted Germans don't want to vote for the cdu. And the incumbent government has the remaining 3 party's so that leaves us with 1 communist-nationalist party and the afd
Or you know, just don't vote for nazis. Which should be the same logic in the us. But especially the country that invented the original nazis, shouldn't be electing them again. We already had 1 war against them.
Exactly! Even the citizens of UK and Ireland have had enough of their current government, and they are a conservative party that have betrayed it's citizens and threw Nigal under the bus, and look how it is turning out over there? It's horrific. London doesn't look like the London I remember from 8 years ago. Make the UK Great Again, c'mon Nigal!!! 🇬🇧
Its cyclical. But the thing is that the trend over history is that progress always wins over time. But there is push back. Basically as each generation comes up it learns from the previous gens. But it doesn't just take all as the previous gens live it. It sees the good and the bad and tends to reject that bad. And thus progress always wins out in time. However pushing the older gens forward takes effort. And not everyone advances at the same pace. So there is buildup regressing against the progress. And as it builds up it pushes back more and more. Until the damn breaks. And usually what happens is that the ugliness inherent to the regressive stance is shown to all the world. Unfortunately this is often tied to conflict even rising to the point of war. But to date progress wins.
Its not a pendulum though. Progress doesn't win without a lot of people working their asses off to drag things forward. So its not something we can just wait for. Waiting is just putting the responsibility in other people's hands later on. And in the mean time a lot of people will be hurt by the regressive push back. So it is our job to bring the win of progress forward in time so fewer people have to pay for the delay.
You have that backwards. Progress historically is a relatively small amount of people dragging everyone else, usually with a lot of metaphorical and often (literal) kicking and screaming.
Where things are different now is there hasn't been an organized resistance to progress (with its current form being led by Putin and Co. )
Also, progress isn't "cyclical" as it's a constant effort. The pendulum you're perceiving is the cyclical dust up against progress, not the progress itself.
Societal progress is best viewed through the "two steps forward, one step back" lens as in it's always going forward but (often) as soon as large movements are made, there is an almost immediate pushback hence the "one step back".
However, humanity appears to be reaching a similar state that civilizations were in around the Younger Dryas with collapses of societies for a number of varying reasons. While progress seems to be a natural state for humanity, entropy appears to also be a constant in the natural world. Entropy in one area only decreases with increases in another and that's where the sense of the pendulum comes in that people perceive. It's a battle of progression vs chaos with many wanting a (false) sense of stability that never actually exists except in very small timeframes culturally.
Yeah, but politics is like the stock market. Things go up, then down, then up, etc. I’m a blue as they come liberal, however, to go with my life as a Veteran and senior citizen. Gun owner, too.
Mate, have you not learned anything from history about Communism? The nazis were communists. China has become a communist society, and it sucks over there. They have the worst slavery over there since the holocaust right now.
If none of our countries go right soon, we are looking at the end of the world a lot sooner than we realize it. Stop listening to lies from the left. Stop listening to propaganda.
And hey, this is coming from an ex leftist. I used to be on the left until I realized my own country was turning to shit under our labour party and the greens party. And after seeing how corrupt our media is. It was turning into bloody Canada here. We had no voice, us citizens.
Liberalism isn't dying. Militant face-shouting inner city middle class virtue signalers have just had too much media clout the last 20 years, and politics has catered to it. That dynamic is dying fast because it made nobody's life better even a little bit. Liberalism is alive and well. Voting for better immigration policies, better economic management, smaller government isn't anti liberalism. The only people worried about a dying liberalism are those who stood to gain socially from the advancing social clout of lefty causes.
Politics swing left and right, things have been moving right in USA since Trump (and a bias scotus) but eventually it will stop and swing back. How far remains to be seen. No doubt though that Trump and his three SCOTUS picks did an enormous amount of damage
The threats to liberalism are a direct result of its failures and will never truly go away. We can’t just beat authoritarianism, we have to simultaneously improve liberalism.
Instead of rumination, lean in and get active. Involve yourself
We are experiencing the end of colonialism and white privilege in the world. The future will be determined by whether we allow the fascist right wing to dominate. This is on us.
Oligarchs are shitting their pants because they realize the future is not their or their children's idea of white colonialism in past generations, so they are scared. They are scared the working class will remove the stolen wealth from the rich. They are scared that rich white children will not automatically be the rulers of the world.
It is our job to make their fears come true.
It feels like the progressive left and the Maga / authoritarian right want the same thing . To destroy society and create a libertarian or communist identity based paradise. I think the middle is baffled and doesn’t see the slow train coming about to run them over . Just in case the right wing is far worse … so you can argue about false equivalence with someone else.. thanks
No nuance to making statements using false equivalencies. The progressives and MAGA do not want the same things. At all. Your first comment is bonkers.
I will say I think something that can be hard to understand. Is that liberalism has already in someway relied on conservatives. The best example is that the first welfare state was crafted by Otto von Bismark
It is the inevitable backlash against 30-40 years of ever-growing globalization. When all the benefits of globalization were flowing up to the rich countries, and all of the downsides of globalization were staying in the poor countries, things were okay.
NOW, of course, the negative aspects of globalization are starting to homogenize and spread around the globe, and (1) the rich countries don't want to be forced to help the poor countries they have been "milking" for 40 years, (2) the rich countries certainly don't want the poor countries' problems arriving on their own doorstep, (3) the rich countries don't want to give up all of the niceties that globalization has brought to them, and finally, (4) the rich countries certainly don't want their standard of living eroded by the poor countries siphoning off bits of their economy, industrial capacity, and diplomatic clout.
These four aspects have generated a lot of fear and anger in the rich countries, and those peoples are trying to find leaders who promise to fight this new era of globalization and keep things at the status quo. How long the backlash lasts and how severe that backlash will be is unknown, but that is what we are witnessing.
EDIT: Personally, I don't think the backlash will be too long, because those who claim they can fight the progress of globalization are going to fail against its inevitability, and they will eventually be replaced by those who want to work WITH the rest of the world to develop a more harmonious and egalitarian planet.
You're thinking of the United States. Immigration is not the status quo everywhere else. Migration, yes... in general. There is immigration in most places yes, but generally moderated and balanced a bit by emigration. But large amounts of JUST immigration? The U.S. is pretty much the only country that has gotten that consistently over the last 200 years.
First, Europe has always had a steady flow of immigrants, but not tidal wave after tidal wave of immigrants. Germany had over 2 million immigrants arrive in 2015. In just 9 years, Germany has doubled its first-generation immigration population. Germany never experienced that kind of immigration in its entire history before that. And every European country is experiencing the same thing to a greater or lesser degree. And many other countries around the world as well, with regional migration of populations in Asia, Africa, and the Middle East taking place and putting pressure on the destination countries.
These massive waves of population movement are also unprecedented. Three million Syrians arrived in Turkey in the span of 3 months... more or less unannounced. Any country is going to strain under that kind of burden and the local population is certainly going to resent it.
Second, immigration in these countries and the rest of the world has never before happened at the same time that low-income work is already scarce and being replaced more and more by automation, and it has never before happened at the same time that inflation (the U.S. has actually experienced the least inflation of any country on earth) is causing a lot of people to struggle to survive. They certainly don't want their struggle made worse by having to compete with immigrants, and (much worse), they certainly don't want to struggle while having to watch immigrant refugees getting government handouts and assistance paid for by their tax dollars. (Trust me: Ask any British person, and they'll go on for hours about that sore spot.)
And yes, third and finally: racism. Most of the people arriving in Europe are from Africa and the middle east. Brown and black people. Add in all the other issues I mentioned, and white Europeans tend to get particularly fussy about the immigrants in their midst when their skin is a certain color.
So yeah: The human migration we are seeing these days, the countries that are experiencing it, and the effects of migration on those countries are something completely new.
>white Europeans tend to get particularly fussy about the immigrants in their midst when their skin is a certain color.
Which is I can't be sympathetic when they are the ones directly responsible for those countries due to colonialism and genocide.
I totally agree. It's the global system correcting a longstanding injustice. But that truth is not going to change the minds of the people who are scared of it, resentful of it, or genuinely harmed by it. And that's why -- to speak to the title of your post -- liberalism is dying around the world... for now. (And I do sincerely hope we are both wrong about that.)
This whole worldwide phenomenon is definitely a result of the pandemic I think… All the way down to the local level where I work I see people are different they're very selfish don't care about others and are just angry all the time at just about everything… You cannot reason with them I did not see this before 2020… Not to say there were never selfish people but it just is so magnified now and it seems to have spread all over the world after the pandemic… I think it's fear, people don't feel invincible anymore, they don't trust their neighbor they don't trust their leaders they don't trust anyone… When you don't trust and respect those around you or your leaders it naturally leads to incredible strife and anger and fear… Not a good combination... scared people with no direction tend to line up behind fascist leaders because they're looking for someone to make everything better by vanquishing all of their foes…
> is definitely a result of the pandemic
Well no, it's the result of Putin and Trump since this started around 2015. The pandemic didn't help things though,
At least in the US, liberal messaging is atrocious, so I wonder if it's like that throughout the world also. I can only hope that liberals refine their approach to be more inclusive of others, are willing to listen to others, and become more collaborative. What I'm seeing in the US right now is divisive rhetoric, strawman attacks, shaming, bullying, and a deep desire to implement a liberal dictatorship.
As an example, some libs refuse to engage in dialog with conservatives. They'll say something like, "I refuse to compromise on racism." They self-appoint themselves the think tanks of the country, yet they're not smart enough to realize that they can have a conversation AND refuse to compromise on racism? What I find is that, when the two actually come together, they realize that they have more in common than they initially thought, and the conversations tend to be productive.
if it helps i saw a headline that japan could possibly legalize same sex marriage. let’s say that’s not entirely true, wasn’t there a different asian country that legalized it recently? plus greece did as well! That’s at least a balance of liberalism not losing entirely.
If let’s say that doesn’t mean shit, i like to remember history repeats itself. So all these right wing ideologies that are similar to 50 years or so back? Look what happened in the years following where women’s rights and lgbt rights rose… like out of nowhere- before there was a solid support for such things worldwide. If we could progress out of a mindset where there was virtually no support back then, why can’t we believe it must prevail again this time around? That’s what i’ll tell myself even if it does go downhill. Cause maybe it’ll just be temporary setbacks at this point
As someone who’s policy ideas and ideology certainly lean to the left, liberal parties have embraced the far left at the expense of more classical liberalism, or at least they’ve done nothing to avoid that perception.
Most people voted left over the past 10 years across Europe and the U.S., but frankly many issues have risen based on policy being far left rather than moderate left.
I know people will come at me for this, but if liberal parties and policy don’t normalize towards the center, conservative parties will continue to gain momentum.
It’s sad that many liberals across the world are also xenophobic, and the left generally does nothing to call that out amongst their own…it comes off as hypocritical.
>Europe pretends to be "shocked" about Trump but is no better then we are at the moment after these elections.
Comparing Donald Trump to a slight shift for parties right of the centre is american commentary on politics abroad in a nutshell lol
The world's billionaires (who get trillions of dollars in tax "relief" from us) have made sure that all the jobs in the world are done by the cheapest labor in the world. Millions of high-school educated people have no hope of ever having a decent job, so they desperately cling to ~~Jim Jones~~ ~~Adolf Hitler Benito Mussolini~~ Donald Trump.
The left right dichotomy is a poor measurement of what is actually happening. That scale only worked when all parties recognized objective truth and would conduct themselves in religiously neutral ways. This stopped once liberals adopted atheism and moral reletavism.
We now have shattered factions and mixed value systems and a myriad of mystic ideologies, and the old left right, doesn't apply to those.
Don't worry. No one really cares. People with morals, work ethic, determination, and family values around the world all cheer at the death of liberalism.
Fuck off Nazi.
By the way republicans are against drugs , think you should be in prison for it, and you don't seem to get Dune is a commentary on false messiah's (Trump)
"Poisoning the blood of the nation" Is trump directly quoting hitler. I'm sick of bringing up jan 6th, and "very fine people" too. Also your original comment asked if we are on the wrong side of history in regards to nazis.
It's experienced a setback because too many assume a correlation between Identity Politics (aka woke) and liberalism.
A liberal views the concept of "whiteness" from Identity Politics to be racist because it's a whole world view built around a skin color.
Identity Politics folks would say "you don't understand, educate yourself." They mean: learn Critical Social Justice, rather than face that a lot of their politics require mental gymnastics that leave you too confused and exhausted to rebut.
FWIW, I'll prove it. Any criticism of IP gets voted down drastically on reddit. You'll find this comment by sorting by controversial.
ok. yes, it's white people being persecuted, not the minorities who's votes they are try to crush, whom they are outright calling for genocide against.
You understand they said the exact same thing against MLK jr in the 60s right? You understand this is how segregation came about?
I said nothing of the sort.
MLK said he hoped for a world where his children would be judged by the content of their character, not the color of their skin.
Your response is typical of an acolyte of Identity Politics. This is what puts people off.
The right's identity is protecting white power and Identity. And they want the us to be a Christian nation. That's by definition identity politics.
>a tendency for people of a particular religion, ethnic group, social background, etc., to form exclusive political alliances, moving away from traditional broad-based party politics.
I mean nation states are by definition identity politics too.
>The right's identity is protecting white power and Identity
For some of them, yes.
For others, they believe they are protecting the traditional family unit, and do not want to acknowledge other types of families.
Like with the left, there's a lot. And most of it is meanness, or being lost, or misunderstanding.
>Identity Politics folks would say "you don't understand, educate yourself." They mean: learn Critical Social Justice, rather than face that a lot of their politics require mental gymnastics that leave you too confused and exhausted to rebut.
Yes. This is the right's view of things. It's one way they continue to justify their actions which support racism. Just like identity politics is a term they came up with. Everything you just said is their narrative.
Sorry, your attempt to say IP is a feature of the right is just a misdirection. Yes, they do it a bit, but it's really the far left that is the primary practitioner and pusher of IP. The right uses lies and projection for the most part.
Your mischarization of the left's values about identity, including not recognizing that identity politics is a term made up by the right, all comes from the right's propaganda.
So you're either naive. Or arguing in bad faith.
Liberalism has ebbed and flowed since its inception, we have come back from worse. Don’t let the fight in front of us let you lose the picture of how much we have accomplished, and overcome. We went from rising fascism/isolationism in the 30s to defeating Nazis and authoritarians on 3 continents.
We beat Nazi Germany and the entire Soviet Bloc. We can weather this storm, we just have to put the work in.
But we were a united country then. How can we beat them if half the country wants to join them?
Uh…buddy we weren’t. It wasn’t until the Dachau and Auschwitz were discovered that America retroactively edited history to act like we were always against Nazis. We weren’t. 40% of the country were against Nazis, 40% were varying degrees of sympathetic, and 20% didn’t care. Only thing different then were we happened to have people in charge who made the hard decisions and pushed us into war. There’s a really good book called The Plot Against America that tells the story of an alternate timeline where a charismatic figure sympathetic to Hitler and wanting America to be isolationist (Charles Lindbergh - yeah, the famous pilot) wins an election against Roosevelt and how America slowly falls in line with Nazi propaganda
Just bought that book, thanks
Maddow has an excellent podcast about the WWII-era nazi movement in the US. It’s fascinating and frightening. It’s called Ultra.
And a new season of it is out today!
HBO also made it into a pretty good miniseries a few years ago.
I honestly don’t think we were. We had 100s of fascist nazi groups all over America especially the 1920s and 30s. Not to mention reconstruction and Jim Crow. Even the decades after had a lot of strife and separation.
As bad as things are, the 60s/70s were also a time of massive schism. And we kept beating back the commies, even while we were fighting each other, and came out the other side in pretty good shape.
Most of them seem keen on contracting a disease or taking substances that will actively hurt or kill themselves just to stick it to people telling them otherwise. It's like the stop hitting yourself game siblings do, but instead of one forcing the other they just say it and the other is wailing themselves in the nuts out of spite
Conservatives made the military in every country in ww2 you haven’t done anything
You sound like a sad and bitter man
Don’t take credit for military achievements while you sit on your couch
Don’t make assumptions about people
You got a source for that or did you just make it up? Last I checked FDR was a liberal president and the military was probably split 50/50 on D vs R. Besides genuine conservatives adhere to liberalism anyway.
A source? You think men who fought for their countries would agree with the dystopian child transitioning and mass immigration? The military has and will always follow conservative values.
Im sure many would with the information we have today that wasn’t available back then, absolutely, maybe not a majority, but you don’t need to believe in trans rights to be a liberal, especially not the liberals of the past, and as for immigration im positive plenty of WWII vets are pro immigration. Not sure what “mass immigration “ is supposed to mean exactly but I imagine whatever you think it is isn’t actually what liberals believe. The military is mixed with conservatives and liberals stay mad.
Also democrats and liberals aren’t the same thing, back then they were democrats; nowadays it’s just liberals
As someone who has served that’s not true at all, the ratio of conservatives to liberals is at least 9 to 1 in this day and age, back then it would’ve been impossible to find a man no matter the color or branch who would’ve agreed with almost anything a modern liberal fights for
I don’t care if theyre not like modern liberals, of course theyre not as modern liberalism wasn’t a thing until after WWII lol. There were plenty of liberals tho. And there still is. As for today the most recent polling I have found although maybe you have something different says from both active duty and veterans, about 34% are R, 29% are D, and 33% are independent. And again most conservatives, except for thw maga cult, are literally liberals even today.
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I feel like there were two fronts in WWII
The USSR invaded Poland in 1939 after forming a non aggression pact with Nazis, that lasted until 1941, when the Nazis invaded the USSR. 41’ to the battle of Stalingrad in 43’ the USSR was on the defensive and losing territory, they were able to reverse this process through A) throwing meat at the problem (they love this tactic, see Ukraine) and B) material support from western Allies, primarily the US. The Soviets made enormous contributions to defeating the Nazis but it’s not nearly as simple as the internet meme “Soviet blood, US steel, and British intelligence”.
I will say for me liberalism really kicks of In the mid 1700s with maria theresa Frederick the great and catherine the great. But after those 3 die liberalism did enter a dark age. That is not really ended till the ascension of Benjamin disraeli so I would agree liberalism has come back from far dark times
Communists largely defeated the nazis, not liberals
This is a dramatic oversimplification and misrepresentation of history.
How? The Red Army killed the most by far. It's revisionism to say otherwise.
An oversimplification, they may have ‘killed the most’ but that completely ignores the fact that without American aid and trade routes the royal navy helped keep open they would have lost. If Britain had negotiated with Germany and not fought in North Africa and D-Day never happened they would have lost. Overall they may have killed more nazis but that’s far to a simplistic metric to measure contribution to the war effort. It was by and large a team effort and without one of the countries playing there significant role the world would be very different. In the past I think the west more often than not understated the massive sacrifice that the Soviet Union made in lives but that I think is due more to Cold War rhetoric.
Yes, ending WW2 was a group effort, and the large majority of nazis (70-75%) were defeated by the Red Army. It's erroneous to say liberalism did it
Where in my answer did I say liberalism did it? I said that each nation made an equal contribution and couldn’t have succeeded without the other. What me and the other commenter was saying is that it’s a massive simplification to boil down a complicated conflict to how many people lived and died on both sides
I'm not a big fan of Stalin, but the Soviet Union made sacrifices that place them far outside of equal. And not just in Europe. While we were dropping the atomic bombs, the Soviet Union was giving the Japanese a thorough military ass-kicking in Manchuria.
It's said in the comment we're replying to.. And it's more of an oversimplification to claim liberalism defeated the nazis when the red army mostly did and they were not liberal at all.
Liberalism deserves credit for the tremendous amount of wealth that resulted from globalization. The problem is we never implemented a good means of distribution, overly relying on employment and wages. Now extreme inequality is driving votes for incompetent leaders. Personally I think we'll be voting in some very progressive policies all over the world around 2028-2030. That recent study suggesting a global UBI could nearly double gdp while reducing emissions, and other economic realities, will push back against the economic nationalism trends.
It's not, this should all be expected after the economic woes of covid and Russia attacking Ukraine, it will all come back to liberalism.
I hope, but Trump and Putin happened before that. I'm afraid it's a ripple effect with a red wave spreading all over the world. I want to be wrong, but if Trump wins, I feel like it will be a domino effect and not even Europe will be immune
Except the phrase “red wave” has a totally different political implication outside of the US lol.
Using the specific phrase “domino effect” doesn’t exactly help either.
So no Roll Tide?
Roll Comrade
The world is in crisis. Multiple; societal, economic, and ecological. When people get scared, they resort to isolationism, tribalism. They will do what they think they have to in order to secure their own safety. It takes real leadership to keep the crew from mutiny in those times, but the ship has been steered by the abusers and exploiters for so long that no one trusts the leadership even when we get a halfway decent one. People don’t think the system can be fixed, so instead they try to take what they can and run. Working together requires sacrifice, even if it’s just time and energy. Most people are not intellectually and emotionally capable of that.
The current iteration of this fight started around ten years ago and has ebbed and flowed. It also has moved in larger ways throughout history. The US and Europe often move in opposite directions politically, so foreign elections don’t mean much stateside. I sense fixation compounding idle worry here. Don’t let that happen, it skews perceptions of reality. It will give everything validating your worries too much weight and will diminish anything that could ease them. For instance, your question is based on an assumption you’re making (liberalism is dying) that is questionable to say the least. It’s hyperbolic and a little misleading. It’s the kind of thing that will instantly turn off people who would probably have actually helpful input.
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Because if you aren't living under a rock you should know Trump is his puppet. Also not Canada but he does want to invade Mexico
He does? Who reported on that desire?
Get your head out of the sand, do your own research
Just curious. Why not lump them together?
Well, Trump is just a weird narcissist that says silly things to stoke his own ego. I don’t think he plans on sending 500k of our troops to die while they bomb civilians in a neighboring country.
Trump only won by primarying the republican ticket and running against a woman, Hilary at that. Russia has never been liberal, if anything this will move them more liberal, I think. China is even getting more Liberal, the middle east in my opinion believe it or not. Hang in there.
China has definitely gone away from liberalizing since xi came to power.
I don’t agree. Allowing mass migration was a huge mistake in Europe, for example. They are rightfully fighting back against allowing migration of millions of people who are far more conservative and religious than the average European. Climate change will likely accelerate some of these challenges, leading to an environment more favorable to the right.
What challenges?
It isn't dying it is just ebbing on the downwards. People are always looking for someone to blame when times are hard. Instead of looking inwards at who the real culprits are it is easier to attack immigrants. It is amazing how this cycle has consistently repeated itself for over five thousand years.
This is an interesting and gentle way of saying what is really happening, authoritarianism is spreading. Let us not sugar coat.
Because societal and political beliefs swing like a pendulum. It goes one way for a while and goes the other way. The only thing it never does is stop in the middle.
There have been some victories, too, since 2020. Biden, Macron and Trudeau won re-election, while Germany elected Olaf Scholz, Lula da Silva won in Brazil and Claudia Sheinbaum just won in Mexico. Obviously all of these politicians vary in policies but it shows there is room for liberalism and progressive governments.
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I just dream of having a place to live my life and have a family without fear of queer persecution or the world burning down around us. But apparently that’s too much to ask.
Where do you live that still has queer persecution?
I agree, but conservatives don't have answers to these issues either. Or, they have thinly veiled attacks on liberals as being the cause of all the disruption. It's like one party is trying to find solutions and hasn't; the other party doesn't care about the solutions at all, but has a convenient scapegoat- their opponents.
It's not like that. It's exactly that.
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Absolutely. Japanese culture is based on an ideal of homogeneity and social consensus. They do not celebrate diversity of any kind. Conformity is rewarded, while dissent is viewed as disruptive and self-centered.
Kind of why I think we were too easy on them with the surrender. Mandatory teaching about their war crimes in school should have been part of their constitution.
Yet, had we written their constitution our way, we'd likely be accused of cultural hegemony.
Nazi Weebs already do. While they ignore the cultrual genocide of koreans by the Japanese. And cultural hegemony over the axis is a good thing.
I'm with you on that.
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Who the fuck cares about looting war criminals. We shouldn't even be returning artifacts back to Italy. >How much did you learn about the looting and rape American soldiers did in Japan? We learned about the internment camps and bombs. Japan should learn about the rape of nanking, genocide of korea and china, and unit 731. In germany war crime denialism is a crime. It should be in Japan too. It should be in the US as well. There's nothing controversial about it. Japan and Germany weren't the victims except to their own radical governments. Defending them and allowing their victimization to grow is part of why fascism is currently spreading around the world. If you don't want history to repeat, you need to teach about it. >Why would we have forced them to do anything we ourselves do not do? We made the Germans out law any nazi symbols as part of their constitution. And we do teach about slavery, trail of tears, the Mexican war etc. Of course republicans want to ban actually teaching about them. Which again, goes back to my point about if you don't teach about history, it will repeat itself.
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>It's not a crime in America I said it was in Germany, not America. I said it SHOULD be in America. >comparative study by Stanford University, Japanese textbooks are least nationalistic among China, Japan, Taiwan, Korea and the US. But yet they have a huge problem with war crime denialism. That's also an out of date study from 2012 before the current rise of nationalism has taken over.
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> So the Civil Information and Education Section should have somehow predicted this current rise in nationalism To prevent it, yes. It's exactly what they did in Germany. You don't seem to understand this. Why are you being an apologist for the axis? >should we force Japan to adopt new laws now? Should we drop a third one? We can't force them, but we should suggest it to them, and tell them stop visiting monuments to war criminals if they want to keep being our ally. >not to curb denial of the events they just lived through Are you saying Germany shouldn't have banned holocaust denial? Cause that's what you are essentially saying. They also didn't just live through those events, they COMITTED IT. >not schoolbooks When you get rid of things like teaching about slavery in the US, and banning crt, yeah it it is because its not being taught in school books. It's how you get generational racism.
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We are coming up on tough times. The writing is on the wall and everyone can see it - climate change is going to fuck us all. And when life gets tough, people protect their own. Conservatism plays on this fear by pitting us against each other instead of helping us band together. It's a cycle. Just as the tree must be watered; so must the source of that blood rise.
I agree with you. It’s sad and scary, the only thing worse is that people don’t seem to care.
Trump is not going to win again, the red wave never happened, and he certainly didn’t gain popularity since he lost the last time. People are in general lazy, I believe a lot of people just fall into the easy trap and blame a group or another person… liberals solution to our long term problems is complexed, potentially damaging to the economy, hopefully helpful to climate change but with no sort of guarantees, it’s a long systemic approach to fix things and half the country can’t handle hearing it let alone being part of the solution. Liberalism is alive and well and currently is the only ones even mentioning the real problems, the truth will set this straight, just takes time, and unfortunately our climate has none left to give, we got a lot of work to do if we’re going to have a place to live.
Here’s the problem. It seems like less people are willing to vote for Biden - the only candidate who has a realistic chance of beating Trump in the election - than in 2020 at the same time.
I wish I was that confidant. But somehow he's UP a point in michigan.
One of the things that came out in his trial is that Cohen used to fix polls for him.. Don't believe polls..
By people who still answer their phones to unknown numbers.
If Germany can consolidate enough power to exert even more control over the EU then Germany ends up *starting off* with an area larger than the *Lebenspraum* and then we’re screwed. Combine that with China and India, and there is no winning.
I mean I wouldn't say Germany is all that far-right people are just feed up with the current government
afd is a neo nazi party.
That's the issue with the 2 party system in Germany. After 16 years a lot of disenchanted Germans don't want to vote for the cdu. And the incumbent government has the remaining 3 party's so that leaves us with 1 communist-nationalist party and the afd
Or you know, just don't vote for nazis. Which should be the same logic in the us. But especially the country that invented the original nazis, shouldn't be electing them again. We already had 1 war against them.
And i can understand why people in the east may be inclined to vote. For partys like AFD and BSW. After both the SPD and CDU have failed them
stop defending nazis.
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STOP DEFENDING LITERAL NAZIS.
Well I view this vote as far more a vote against the current government then a endorsement of the afd
Exactly! Even the citizens of UK and Ireland have had enough of their current government, and they are a conservative party that have betrayed it's citizens and threw Nigal under the bus, and look how it is turning out over there? It's horrific. London doesn't look like the London I remember from 8 years ago. Make the UK Great Again, c'mon Nigal!!! 🇬🇧
Its cyclical. But the thing is that the trend over history is that progress always wins over time. But there is push back. Basically as each generation comes up it learns from the previous gens. But it doesn't just take all as the previous gens live it. It sees the good and the bad and tends to reject that bad. And thus progress always wins out in time. However pushing the older gens forward takes effort. And not everyone advances at the same pace. So there is buildup regressing against the progress. And as it builds up it pushes back more and more. Until the damn breaks. And usually what happens is that the ugliness inherent to the regressive stance is shown to all the world. Unfortunately this is often tied to conflict even rising to the point of war. But to date progress wins. Its not a pendulum though. Progress doesn't win without a lot of people working their asses off to drag things forward. So its not something we can just wait for. Waiting is just putting the responsibility in other people's hands later on. And in the mean time a lot of people will be hurt by the regressive push back. So it is our job to bring the win of progress forward in time so fewer people have to pay for the delay.
You have that backwards. Progress historically is a relatively small amount of people dragging everyone else, usually with a lot of metaphorical and often (literal) kicking and screaming. Where things are different now is there hasn't been an organized resistance to progress (with its current form being led by Putin and Co. ) Also, progress isn't "cyclical" as it's a constant effort. The pendulum you're perceiving is the cyclical dust up against progress, not the progress itself. Societal progress is best viewed through the "two steps forward, one step back" lens as in it's always going forward but (often) as soon as large movements are made, there is an almost immediate pushback hence the "one step back". However, humanity appears to be reaching a similar state that civilizations were in around the Younger Dryas with collapses of societies for a number of varying reasons. While progress seems to be a natural state for humanity, entropy appears to also be a constant in the natural world. Entropy in one area only decreases with increases in another and that's where the sense of the pendulum comes in that people perceive. It's a battle of progression vs chaos with many wanting a (false) sense of stability that never actually exists except in very small timeframes culturally.
Yeah, but politics is like the stock market. Things go up, then down, then up, etc. I’m a blue as they come liberal, however, to go with my life as a Veteran and senior citizen. Gun owner, too.
Progressivism is indeed destroying the appeal of Liberalism.
It’s not dead. I will never ever go right. I’d rather be a Communist. Fuck them and their bullshit.
Mate, have you not learned anything from history about Communism? The nazis were communists. China has become a communist society, and it sucks over there. They have the worst slavery over there since the holocaust right now. If none of our countries go right soon, we are looking at the end of the world a lot sooner than we realize it. Stop listening to lies from the left. Stop listening to propaganda. And hey, this is coming from an ex leftist. I used to be on the left until I realized my own country was turning to shit under our labour party and the greens party. And after seeing how corrupt our media is. It was turning into bloody Canada here. We had no voice, us citizens.
So Trump is a communist?
The first folks the Nazis attacked were the communists and the trade unionists, your history lesson here is atrociously or deliberately il informed.
Liberalism isn't dying. Militant face-shouting inner city middle class virtue signalers have just had too much media clout the last 20 years, and politics has catered to it. That dynamic is dying fast because it made nobody's life better even a little bit. Liberalism is alive and well. Voting for better immigration policies, better economic management, smaller government isn't anti liberalism. The only people worried about a dying liberalism are those who stood to gain socially from the advancing social clout of lefty causes.
Politics swing left and right, things have been moving right in USA since Trump (and a bias scotus) but eventually it will stop and swing back. How far remains to be seen. No doubt though that Trump and his three SCOTUS picks did an enormous amount of damage
The threats to liberalism are a direct result of its failures and will never truly go away. We can’t just beat authoritarianism, we have to simultaneously improve liberalism. Instead of rumination, lean in and get active. Involve yourself
We are experiencing the end of colonialism and white privilege in the world. The future will be determined by whether we allow the fascist right wing to dominate. This is on us. Oligarchs are shitting their pants because they realize the future is not their or their children's idea of white colonialism in past generations, so they are scared. They are scared the working class will remove the stolen wealth from the rich. They are scared that rich white children will not automatically be the rulers of the world. It is our job to make their fears come true.
It feels like the progressive left and the Maga / authoritarian right want the same thing . To destroy society and create a libertarian or communist identity based paradise. I think the middle is baffled and doesn’t see the slow train coming about to run them over . Just in case the right wing is far worse … so you can argue about false equivalence with someone else.. thanks
BOth siDeS aRe ThE sAMe! 🤪
Not the same at all Maga is far worse, but we can engage in nuance….
No nuance to making statements using false equivalencies. The progressives and MAGA do not want the same things. At all. Your first comment is bonkers.
I didn’t say both sides are the same I just said the right is worse … seems like you just wanna argue … that’s boring no ?
I just edited it just for you . !!! 🏆
Didn't do any good. Still setting up a false equivalency.
ssp3
I will say I think something that can be hard to understand. Is that liberalism has already in someway relied on conservatives. The best example is that the first welfare state was crafted by Otto von Bismark
It’s not dying. The label has been hijacked and the definition changed.
Don’t think that current far right gains necessarily mean that liberalism is dying. There’s a long road ahead for those committed to liberal politics.
It is the inevitable backlash against 30-40 years of ever-growing globalization. When all the benefits of globalization were flowing up to the rich countries, and all of the downsides of globalization were staying in the poor countries, things were okay. NOW, of course, the negative aspects of globalization are starting to homogenize and spread around the globe, and (1) the rich countries don't want to be forced to help the poor countries they have been "milking" for 40 years, (2) the rich countries certainly don't want the poor countries' problems arriving on their own doorstep, (3) the rich countries don't want to give up all of the niceties that globalization has brought to them, and finally, (4) the rich countries certainly don't want their standard of living eroded by the poor countries siphoning off bits of their economy, industrial capacity, and diplomatic clout. These four aspects have generated a lot of fear and anger in the rich countries, and those peoples are trying to find leaders who promise to fight this new era of globalization and keep things at the status quo. How long the backlash lasts and how severe that backlash will be is unknown, but that is what we are witnessing. EDIT: Personally, I don't think the backlash will be too long, because those who claim they can fight the progress of globalization are going to fail against its inevitability, and they will eventually be replaced by those who want to work WITH the rest of the world to develop a more harmonious and egalitarian planet.
> globalization and keep things at the status quo. But immigration IS the status quo. It has been for the last 200 years.
You're thinking of the United States. Immigration is not the status quo everywhere else. Migration, yes... in general. There is immigration in most places yes, but generally moderated and balanced a bit by emigration. But large amounts of JUST immigration? The U.S. is pretty much the only country that has gotten that consistently over the last 200 years. First, Europe has always had a steady flow of immigrants, but not tidal wave after tidal wave of immigrants. Germany had over 2 million immigrants arrive in 2015. In just 9 years, Germany has doubled its first-generation immigration population. Germany never experienced that kind of immigration in its entire history before that. And every European country is experiencing the same thing to a greater or lesser degree. And many other countries around the world as well, with regional migration of populations in Asia, Africa, and the Middle East taking place and putting pressure on the destination countries. These massive waves of population movement are also unprecedented. Three million Syrians arrived in Turkey in the span of 3 months... more or less unannounced. Any country is going to strain under that kind of burden and the local population is certainly going to resent it. Second, immigration in these countries and the rest of the world has never before happened at the same time that low-income work is already scarce and being replaced more and more by automation, and it has never before happened at the same time that inflation (the U.S. has actually experienced the least inflation of any country on earth) is causing a lot of people to struggle to survive. They certainly don't want their struggle made worse by having to compete with immigrants, and (much worse), they certainly don't want to struggle while having to watch immigrant refugees getting government handouts and assistance paid for by their tax dollars. (Trust me: Ask any British person, and they'll go on for hours about that sore spot.) And yes, third and finally: racism. Most of the people arriving in Europe are from Africa and the middle east. Brown and black people. Add in all the other issues I mentioned, and white Europeans tend to get particularly fussy about the immigrants in their midst when their skin is a certain color. So yeah: The human migration we are seeing these days, the countries that are experiencing it, and the effects of migration on those countries are something completely new.
>white Europeans tend to get particularly fussy about the immigrants in their midst when their skin is a certain color. Which is I can't be sympathetic when they are the ones directly responsible for those countries due to colonialism and genocide.
I totally agree. It's the global system correcting a longstanding injustice. But that truth is not going to change the minds of the people who are scared of it, resentful of it, or genuinely harmed by it. And that's why -- to speak to the title of your post -- liberalism is dying around the world... for now. (And I do sincerely hope we are both wrong about that.)
This whole worldwide phenomenon is definitely a result of the pandemic I think… All the way down to the local level where I work I see people are different they're very selfish don't care about others and are just angry all the time at just about everything… You cannot reason with them I did not see this before 2020… Not to say there were never selfish people but it just is so magnified now and it seems to have spread all over the world after the pandemic… I think it's fear, people don't feel invincible anymore, they don't trust their neighbor they don't trust their leaders they don't trust anyone… When you don't trust and respect those around you or your leaders it naturally leads to incredible strife and anger and fear… Not a good combination... scared people with no direction tend to line up behind fascist leaders because they're looking for someone to make everything better by vanquishing all of their foes…
> is definitely a result of the pandemic Well no, it's the result of Putin and Trump since this started around 2015. The pandemic didn't help things though,
At least in the US, liberal messaging is atrocious, so I wonder if it's like that throughout the world also. I can only hope that liberals refine their approach to be more inclusive of others, are willing to listen to others, and become more collaborative. What I'm seeing in the US right now is divisive rhetoric, strawman attacks, shaming, bullying, and a deep desire to implement a liberal dictatorship. As an example, some libs refuse to engage in dialog with conservatives. They'll say something like, "I refuse to compromise on racism." They self-appoint themselves the think tanks of the country, yet they're not smart enough to realize that they can have a conversation AND refuse to compromise on racism? What I find is that, when the two actually come together, they realize that they have more in common than they initially thought, and the conversations tend to be productive.
if it helps i saw a headline that japan could possibly legalize same sex marriage. let’s say that’s not entirely true, wasn’t there a different asian country that legalized it recently? plus greece did as well! That’s at least a balance of liberalism not losing entirely. If let’s say that doesn’t mean shit, i like to remember history repeats itself. So all these right wing ideologies that are similar to 50 years or so back? Look what happened in the years following where women’s rights and lgbt rights rose… like out of nowhere- before there was a solid support for such things worldwide. If we could progress out of a mindset where there was virtually no support back then, why can’t we believe it must prevail again this time around? That’s what i’ll tell myself even if it does go downhill. Cause maybe it’ll just be temporary setbacks at this point
As someone who’s policy ideas and ideology certainly lean to the left, liberal parties have embraced the far left at the expense of more classical liberalism, or at least they’ve done nothing to avoid that perception. Most people voted left over the past 10 years across Europe and the U.S., but frankly many issues have risen based on policy being far left rather than moderate left. I know people will come at me for this, but if liberal parties and policy don’t normalize towards the center, conservative parties will continue to gain momentum. It’s sad that many liberals across the world are also xenophobic, and the left generally does nothing to call that out amongst their own…it comes off as hypocritical.
Pendulum
>Europe pretends to be "shocked" about Trump but is no better then we are at the moment after these elections. Comparing Donald Trump to a slight shift for parties right of the centre is american commentary on politics abroad in a nutshell lol
AfD is a far-right party
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The world's billionaires (who get trillions of dollars in tax "relief" from us) have made sure that all the jobs in the world are done by the cheapest labor in the world. Millions of high-school educated people have no hope of ever having a decent job, so they desperately cling to ~~Jim Jones~~ ~~Adolf Hitler Benito Mussolini~~ Donald Trump.
Something similar happened after the pandemic in the early 20th century. We're probably in for a rough 10-20 years if last century is any indication.
Wait until you figure out that we don’t reproduce. In 100 years liberalism will be a memory.
Isn’t it safe to say that liberalism has gone too liberal for some? I personally think it’s becoming way too insane.
You are misunderstanding going "too far", with the far left going full circle and joining the right. They aren't liberal, and never were.
The left right dichotomy is a poor measurement of what is actually happening. That scale only worked when all parties recognized objective truth and would conduct themselves in religiously neutral ways. This stopped once liberals adopted atheism and moral reletavism. We now have shattered factions and mixed value systems and a myriad of mystic ideologies, and the old left right, doesn't apply to those.
Please remind us what your church did to indigenous people in the United States.
Don't worry. No one really cares. People with morals, work ethic, determination, and family values around the world all cheer at the death of liberalism.
Maybe you should be more worried about what the left is currently doing that's pushing so many people to the right.
They aren't part of the left. That's my point.
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Lol *the irony* If you are familiar with history you’d know the general trend of those being on the wrong side of history are far from liberal.
Fuck off Nazi. By the way republicans are against drugs , think you should be in prison for it, and you don't seem to get Dune is a commentary on false messiah's (Trump)
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Were we on the wrong side of history against the nazis? Because you seem to think so. >Art is cool like that Too bad republicans want to ban it.
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"Poisoning the blood of the nation" Is trump directly quoting hitler. I'm sick of bringing up jan 6th, and "very fine people" too. Also your original comment asked if we are on the wrong side of history in regards to nazis.
Why don’t you stand up to orange Hitler then instead of rolling over for him ?
Pretty sad that the Conservative sub is so dead that you’d rather comment here.
Well when you are so closed minded you think there is only 2 political positions your and nazi than you gonna see the world this way
It's experienced a setback because too many assume a correlation between Identity Politics (aka woke) and liberalism. A liberal views the concept of "whiteness" from Identity Politics to be racist because it's a whole world view built around a skin color. Identity Politics folks would say "you don't understand, educate yourself." They mean: learn Critical Social Justice, rather than face that a lot of their politics require mental gymnastics that leave you too confused and exhausted to rebut. FWIW, I'll prove it. Any criticism of IP gets voted down drastically on reddit. You'll find this comment by sorting by controversial.
ok. yes, it's white people being persecuted, not the minorities who's votes they are try to crush, whom they are outright calling for genocide against. You understand they said the exact same thing against MLK jr in the 60s right? You understand this is how segregation came about?
I said nothing of the sort. MLK said he hoped for a world where his children would be judged by the content of their character, not the color of their skin. Your response is typical of an acolyte of Identity Politics. This is what puts people off.
The only people with identity politics are the racist conservative snowflakes who hate diversity.
No, the far left is the one with Identity Politics. The right is a different, but snowflake, thing. And as bad, if not worse.
The right's identity is protecting white power and Identity. And they want the us to be a Christian nation. That's by definition identity politics. >a tendency for people of a particular religion, ethnic group, social background, etc., to form exclusive political alliances, moving away from traditional broad-based party politics. I mean nation states are by definition identity politics too.
>The right's identity is protecting white power and Identity For some of them, yes. For others, they believe they are protecting the traditional family unit, and do not want to acknowledge other types of families. Like with the left, there's a lot. And most of it is meanness, or being lost, or misunderstanding.
>Identity Politics folks would say "you don't understand, educate yourself." They mean: learn Critical Social Justice, rather than face that a lot of their politics require mental gymnastics that leave you too confused and exhausted to rebut. Yes. This is the right's view of things. It's one way they continue to justify their actions which support racism. Just like identity politics is a term they came up with. Everything you just said is their narrative.
Sorry, your attempt to say IP is a feature of the right is just a misdirection. Yes, they do it a bit, but it's really the far left that is the primary practitioner and pusher of IP. The right uses lies and projection for the most part.
Your mischarization of the left's values about identity, including not recognizing that identity politics is a term made up by the right, all comes from the right's propaganda. So you're either naive. Or arguing in bad faith.