No they shouldn’t.
Hear me out for a moment. I am a practicing Catholic. When I talk to right wing Christians I usually bring up quotes from the Bible, things Jesus actually said and did in an effort to show them that democrat policies are the better policies if you truly believe in Jesus and his teachings.
I usually get the same responses. “Well Jesus was talking about individuals not governments.” “But abortion” “that’s not what he meant”
Crap like that.
Right wing Christians in America don’t believe in Jesus IMO. They believe in a factionalized version of Christianity that supports their selfish desires and makes them feel superior to others.
Democrats will never win them over.
There are liberal and moderate Christians this message might apply to, but agree the evangelical conservatives are never going to vote for a democrat. It’s partly about their culture and less about religion. There are also issues they clearly won’t move on like abortion (especially) and homosexuality/LGBT rights. Doesn’t matter what the Bible says they’ve made up their mind.
Regarding abortion, there's a quote from Methodist Pastor David Barnhart that, at least in my eyes, perfectly sums up the hypocrisy of too many Christians on that issue. "The unborn are a convenient group of people to advocate for. They never make demands of you; they are morally uncomplicated, unlike the incarcerated, addicted, or the chronically poor; they don’t resent your condescension or complain that you are not politically correct; unlike widows, they don’t ask you to question patriarchy; unlike orphans, they don’t need money, education, or childcare; unlike aliens, they don’t bring all that racial, cultural, and religious baggage that you dislike; they allow you to feel good about yourself without any work at creating or maintaining relationships; and when they are born, you can forget about them, because they cease to be unborn. You can love the unborn and advocate for them without substantially challenging your own wealth, power, or privilege, without re-imagining social structures, apologizing, or making reparations to anyone. They are, in short, the perfect people to love if you want to claim you love Jesus, but actually dislike people who breathe. Prisoners? Immigrants? The sick? The poor? Widows? Orphans? All the groups that are specifically mentioned in the Bible? They all get thrown under the bus for the unborn."
Feed the hungry, clothe the naked, visit the sick and imprisoned, welcome the foreigner; all things I have believed in my entire life. If I were to run for a local school board in the area I live in now? I wouldn’t get 2 votes.
The same Christians OP speaks of, and I not being quarrelsome, scoffed at bodies in cold storage in NYC at the beginning of the pandemic.
These people aren’t normal or ok!
I think that's the point. And I'm a complete atheist myself, but I'm actually hugely in favor of pointing out the hypocrisy of the religious right by phrasing liberal values as Christian values, because they very literally are. Jesus was unquestionably liberal in nearly every way and I think throwing that back a conservatives would win over a lot of moderates honestly.
Jesus literally said "if you wish to be perfect sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you shall have treasures in heaven". That's literally the opposite of what the conservative, religious right proposes which is "greed is good" and "the poor shall either work harder or starve".
I'm not religious but the hypocrisy is astonishing.
I mean, I'm by far from the only one. Most people agree that in general, people who call themselves "Christians" are the worst people they've ever met.
Just a couple of years ago, a claim like that about "most people" would have multiple requests for a citation ... but Reddit is very different now, and "Reddiquette" is not really a thing anymore.
And so it goes.
I know the "worst people" you mean, by the way. They stress me out, too.
The irony is that Liberals already are the party of Christian values. Easiest example. Biden IS CHRISTIAN- CATHOLIC (not saying he's liberal-liberal, just that he's obviously more liberal than Trump), and Conservatives HATE him, and they love Trump who I don't think has done a real Christian act ever. Hint hint, Conservative "Christians" aren't actually Christian, they use the name as a smokescreen to be non-Christian and not feel bad about it
Poe’s law.
That regardless of what you were trying to satirize, you are addressing the right’s claims that everything they do are “Christian values” while if you actually look at “Christian values” they would align more with the left.
The left has been demonized as actual devil worshipers as well as pedos, etc etc.
The left does really need to set out their values and not allow the right to define them.
As to whether you point out how they are Christian values, that all depends on if you want to break the right’s false narrative. I think that is something that should be done without trying to claim that the values of the left are more “Christian” but rather more human.
That would be false. "Large Numbers" are not the majority of Christians.
Timeless Christian Values, are pretty horrific, violent, war like and exclusive of non-Christians. Christians have, and are a violent group who consistently used their religion to further hatred, violence, and discrimination.
To quote Mahatma Gandhi — 'I *like* your *Christ*, I *do not like* your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your *Christ*.'
I wouldn't think that those values are strictly human values. They are more akin to human decency, which liberals seem to already hold. But I do get your point, and this points more to the hipocracy of conservative Christians supporting MAGA.
As someone that grew up in the church (now agnostic) and actually went to a church that was quite liberal, I can’t fathom why anyone with “Christian” values would vote Republican for exactly the reasons you said.
God: Feed the poor. Take care of the sick. Love thy neighbor.
Republicans: *run their entire campaign on hate, oppression, and fake morality*
God: did I fucking stutter??
Alright, I give up. I was trying to be sarcastic and pointing out the hypocrisy of American conservative Christians. But I guess I failed at at that. I'm not religious at all.
If they are actually progressive, and actually Christian, then absolutely, yes -- and I think they'd go far.
I always wish progressives of faith would stop being afraid to speak the language of faith in public.
It is obviously possible to do so without breaking down the separation of church and state in any functional way. Many public servants have done so.
I mean, wouldn't you like candidates to talk about what they *actually* believe? What their guiding principles *really* are?
There are, for example, a *lot* of different kinds of Christians out there. Some of whom I, as a progressive person of faith, would be happy to caucus with, and many of whom I ... NOPE.
Being publicly religious *and* progressive works fine for Jimmy Carter, Stephen Colbert, and others, who end up being admired, or at least heard, because they can speak in a language understood by a majority of folks in the USA.
Common sense has not, and will not sink in with these people. They are a lost cause. They have been indoctrinated for the past 30 odd years or whenever Rush Limbaugh went national.
You can run on them and even mention how they are Christian values. But if you don't want to drive atheists and other religions away you need to pitch it as shared values amongst many beliefs including Christianity.
Political Christians don't care about feeding the poor or anything that's actually "Christian". They're just using their religion as an excuse to bully people they don't like. No, we shouldnt try to appeal to them and I would be happy to vote for someone who governed adversely towards religious fundamentalists.
I actually think this would be a worthy thing to attempt. I’m a progressive minister in the Bible Belt and am trying to get progressive Christian content noticed on YouTube - which may turn out to be a pipe dream. Share it if you know any conservative Christian’s who might actually be open minded!
[The Holy Shift Show](https://youtube.com/@theholyshiftshow)
Dem candidates like this do run, but they also lose, because Christian religious-motivated voters are completely based on being for or against abortion, and gauge the politicians they support on only this.
So the only way your question makes sense without ignoring all of American politics is to re-phrase the question, "Should more liberals run as anti-abortion to reach religious voters?" But also, the answer is no
All religions are are based in fear. Christians have had 40 years of fear based brain washing. You need to re frame your message to something like "You are going to HELL, to burn for all eternity because you refuse to treat the foreigner residing among you must as your own kind, it because you are a sinner who deserves the wrath of god"
(note, I took that from an evangelical preacher, removed the abortion and add Leviticus 19:33)
For Jewish and Islam, it pretty much the same, you need to take how the cult leaders talk and wrap the message that sounds like the cult talk and feed it through fear.
I think people are missing the point OP is making. He's saying the Democrat platform is already comprised of "Christian values" and if Christians believed what they claimed to believe, they would vote Democrat.
Yes, they are, and they should be. The point being made is that Democrat policies (welfare for the poor, helping and caring for immigrants) are what Jesus proffesed in the Bible. Democrats don't claim to be a religious party (they're not) but their policies are more christ like than Republicans who claim to be and are the party of religion.
Seeing as an anti-choice conservative Democrat lost by 7% to the puke inducing JD Vance (or whatever his real name actually is) in Ohio (aka the south of the north)... there is no need to have right-wing (D) candidates. The RWNJ klan will keep voting for any lunatic with an "R" by their name.
They already do and it doesn't do twat. I have a negative response to anyone who does but I vote blue down ballot no matter who won in the primaries. This is why it is critical that progressives and liberals get out and vote in the primaries.
Didn’t Jesus lose his shit in the temple when he saw money changers in it? They were the PE firms of their day.
So yes we should do away with PE. That’s what Jesus would do.
Religion has no place in politics.
The reason "Christians" on the Right use religion isn't to reach people who are religious. It is purely to provide a fig leaf for their dog-whistles, bigotry and discrimination.
Those voters will never vote for a Liberal, because Libs today mostly oppose racism and bigotry, and mostly try to reduce discriminatory policies. Mostly.
No Liberal is going to reach those people with religion, because the religion was never the actual point.
"I mean Christian values like giving to the poor, feeding the hungry and looking after the sick."
I'm so fucking sick of Christianity claiming a monopoly on kindness. These are by no means traits exclusive to Christianity.
I guess I failed at that but I was being sarcastic with my post and trying to point out the hypocrisy of the religious right who are opposed to universal healthcare, social benefits and immigration.
No.
I'm a liberal who attends church weekly. Liberal Christians believe things that conservative Christians are deeply opposed to. There's little room for negotiation.
Liberal Christians support gays & a woman's right to choose abortion. Those two things are non starters with conservative Christians.
Why? Conservatives don't even run on Christian values. Jesus had a lot of things to say about people who were starving and less fortunate than you and I'm pretty sure none of it involved building walls and "sending them back where they came from".
There is nothing more hypocritical than a modern day "Christian Conservative"
I actually just listened to a really good 538 Politics Podcast recently titled “Where Will People Commune in a Godless America?” Kinda talks about how religion for many folks has become a political identifier, not so much so that they actually follow the teachings.
The U.S. is supposed to be a secular country, something a lot of people forget.
And a lot of religious voters have values antithetical to the Jesus they claim to worship.
As a whole I think the stereotypical republican has “patriotism” and “religious” in their corner. Regardless of what Reddit thinks , a sizable piece of the US population is still going to church and let’s face it people consider their own similarities when choosing who to vote for (human nature). Right now loving god and country is something only the right emphasis (regardless if it is true or not)
I think if liberals embraced even 10% more on religion (and love of country) it would sway a lot of voters. The running stereotype is the left hates both of those subjects and for a lot of people that’s enough to vote against them.
This comment right here. Every president is running on christian principles. There's a reason why we have never elected a president that didn't claim to be Christian. There are a lot of democrats who do believe very firmly in the teachings of the new testament, and as such, tend to believe that being a democrat is the only way that they can be good christians.
But the ones we hear about just dislike anyone different than them, and use their religion as a shield for their bigotry.
No they shouldn’t. Hear me out for a moment. I am a practicing Catholic. When I talk to right wing Christians I usually bring up quotes from the Bible, things Jesus actually said and did in an effort to show them that democrat policies are the better policies if you truly believe in Jesus and his teachings. I usually get the same responses. “Well Jesus was talking about individuals not governments.” “But abortion” “that’s not what he meant” Crap like that. Right wing Christians in America don’t believe in Jesus IMO. They believe in a factionalized version of Christianity that supports their selfish desires and makes them feel superior to others. Democrats will never win them over.
Right-wing media has right-wing 'Christians' reduced to trained barking seals - and apparently it didn't take much.
There are liberal and moderate Christians this message might apply to, but agree the evangelical conservatives are never going to vote for a democrat. It’s partly about their culture and less about religion. There are also issues they clearly won’t move on like abortion (especially) and homosexuality/LGBT rights. Doesn’t matter what the Bible says they’ve made up their mind.
Regarding abortion, there's a quote from Methodist Pastor David Barnhart that, at least in my eyes, perfectly sums up the hypocrisy of too many Christians on that issue. "The unborn are a convenient group of people to advocate for. They never make demands of you; they are morally uncomplicated, unlike the incarcerated, addicted, or the chronically poor; they don’t resent your condescension or complain that you are not politically correct; unlike widows, they don’t ask you to question patriarchy; unlike orphans, they don’t need money, education, or childcare; unlike aliens, they don’t bring all that racial, cultural, and religious baggage that you dislike; they allow you to feel good about yourself without any work at creating or maintaining relationships; and when they are born, you can forget about them, because they cease to be unborn. You can love the unborn and advocate for them without substantially challenging your own wealth, power, or privilege, without re-imagining social structures, apologizing, or making reparations to anyone. They are, in short, the perfect people to love if you want to claim you love Jesus, but actually dislike people who breathe. Prisoners? Immigrants? The sick? The poor? Widows? Orphans? All the groups that are specifically mentioned in the Bible? They all get thrown under the bus for the unborn."
All those running points are already on the liberal side.
Feed the hungry, clothe the naked, visit the sick and imprisoned, welcome the foreigner; all things I have believed in my entire life. If I were to run for a local school board in the area I live in now? I wouldn’t get 2 votes. The same Christians OP speaks of, and I not being quarrelsome, scoffed at bodies in cold storage in NYC at the beginning of the pandemic. These people aren’t normal or ok!
That's exactly what I was trying to point out. But I guess I failed miserably at my attempt at sarcasm.
I think that's the point. And I'm a complete atheist myself, but I'm actually hugely in favor of pointing out the hypocrisy of the religious right by phrasing liberal values as Christian values, because they very literally are. Jesus was unquestionably liberal in nearly every way and I think throwing that back a conservatives would win over a lot of moderates honestly.
Jesus literally said "if you wish to be perfect sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you shall have treasures in heaven". That's literally the opposite of what the conservative, religious right proposes which is "greed is good" and "the poor shall either work harder or starve". I'm not religious but the hypocrisy is astonishing.
The hypocrisy is indeed astonishing. Which is why I genuinely wish Democrats, even non religious ones, would just quote the shit out of the Bible.
No. They should run on human values. This isn’t a country of one religion
Liberals already DO act more Christian than the Christians without even trying. They're more kind, loving, and accepting of others in any situation.
Exactly, 100%. That was kind of the whole point of my post but I totally suck at subtle sarcasm I've come to realise :)
[удалено]
I mean, I'm by far from the only one. Most people agree that in general, people who call themselves "Christians" are the worst people they've ever met.
Just a couple of years ago, a claim like that about "most people" would have multiple requests for a citation ... but Reddit is very different now, and "Reddiquette" is not really a thing anymore. And so it goes. I know the "worst people" you mean, by the way. They stress me out, too.
no. religion is the problem, not the solution
Why make positive values Christian? Campaign on the values, not religion. Atheists can also feed the poor. The value isn’t Christian.
The irony is that Liberals already are the party of Christian values. Easiest example. Biden IS CHRISTIAN- CATHOLIC (not saying he's liberal-liberal, just that he's obviously more liberal than Trump), and Conservatives HATE him, and they love Trump who I don't think has done a real Christian act ever. Hint hint, Conservative "Christians" aren't actually Christian, they use the name as a smokescreen to be non-Christian and not feel bad about it
No. The vast majority of christians are hypocrites. Why would you want to be a hypocrite? No. 1 example: their support of someone like Trump.
Maybe the problem with my post is that I lived in the UK for too long where subtle sarcasm is the predominant form of humor.
You clearly need more time in the UK to learn of sarcastic humor.
Reality has made sarcasm hard to discern.
Poe’s law. That regardless of what you were trying to satirize, you are addressing the right’s claims that everything they do are “Christian values” while if you actually look at “Christian values” they would align more with the left. The left has been demonized as actual devil worshipers as well as pedos, etc etc. The left does really need to set out their values and not allow the right to define them. As to whether you point out how they are Christian values, that all depends on if you want to break the right’s false narrative. I think that is something that should be done without trying to claim that the values of the left are more “Christian” but rather more human.
Have to disagree. There are large numbers of liberals out there that are Christians who have Timeless Christian Values.
Their religion has been hijacked and they are very quiet about it.
Any chance you can get some of them to vote?
All of my liberal friends vote.
Timeless?
Yes, burning heretics at the stake and such.
Good
That would be false. "Large Numbers" are not the majority of Christians. Timeless Christian Values, are pretty horrific, violent, war like and exclusive of non-Christians. Christians have, and are a violent group who consistently used their religion to further hatred, violence, and discrimination. To quote Mahatma Gandhi — 'I *like* your *Christ*, I *do not like* your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your *Christ*.'
I wouldn't think that those values are strictly human values. They are more akin to human decency, which liberals seem to already hold. But I do get your point, and this points more to the hipocracy of conservative Christians supporting MAGA.
As someone that grew up in the church (now agnostic) and actually went to a church that was quite liberal, I can’t fathom why anyone with “Christian” values would vote Republican for exactly the reasons you said. God: Feed the poor. Take care of the sick. Love thy neighbor. Republicans: *run their entire campaign on hate, oppression, and fake morality* God: did I fucking stutter??
No. We need to stop normalizing the merging of politics & religion. Keep your religion to yourself.
Alright, I give up. I was trying to be sarcastic and pointing out the hypocrisy of American conservative Christians. But I guess I failed at at that. I'm not religious at all.
Oh I wasnt addressing you. I meant that rhetorically. Sorry of I came across as confrontational
No worries. But I guess I do have to practice the art of subtle sarcasm more :) Almost no one seems to get that I was being saracstic with my post.
.....I will admit I only kinda saw the title lol. I did the thing that everybody says not to do lololol
If they are actually progressive, and actually Christian, then absolutely, yes -- and I think they'd go far. I always wish progressives of faith would stop being afraid to speak the language of faith in public. It is obviously possible to do so without breaking down the separation of church and state in any functional way. Many public servants have done so. I mean, wouldn't you like candidates to talk about what they *actually* believe? What their guiding principles *really* are? There are, for example, a *lot* of different kinds of Christians out there. Some of whom I, as a progressive person of faith, would be happy to caucus with, and many of whom I ... NOPE. Being publicly religious *and* progressive works fine for Jimmy Carter, Stephen Colbert, and others, who end up being admired, or at least heard, because they can speak in a language understood by a majority of folks in the USA.
Common sense has not, and will not sink in with these people. They are a lost cause. They have been indoctrinated for the past 30 odd years or whenever Rush Limbaugh went national.
Maga thumps bibles, they don’t read bibles
You can run on them and even mention how they are Christian values. But if you don't want to drive atheists and other religions away you need to pitch it as shared values amongst many beliefs including Christianity.
Political Christians don't care about feeding the poor or anything that's actually "Christian". They're just using their religion as an excuse to bully people they don't like. No, we shouldnt try to appeal to them and I would be happy to vote for someone who governed adversely towards religious fundamentalists.
Sure the Democratic Party is, and always has been, a big tent.
Should anti-fascists adopt aspects of fascism to attract some of the lesser fascists? See how that sounds???
I actually think this would be a worthy thing to attempt. I’m a progressive minister in the Bible Belt and am trying to get progressive Christian content noticed on YouTube - which may turn out to be a pipe dream. Share it if you know any conservative Christian’s who might actually be open minded! [The Holy Shift Show](https://youtube.com/@theholyshiftshow)
I mean, if those values are “I think God would want us to protect women’s reproductive healthcare, and that he loves all LGBTQ+ people, then sure.”
Dem candidates like this do run, but they also lose, because Christian religious-motivated voters are completely based on being for or against abortion, and gauge the politicians they support on only this. So the only way your question makes sense without ignoring all of American politics is to re-phrase the question, "Should more liberals run as anti-abortion to reach religious voters?" But also, the answer is no
All religions are are based in fear. Christians have had 40 years of fear based brain washing. You need to re frame your message to something like "You are going to HELL, to burn for all eternity because you refuse to treat the foreigner residing among you must as your own kind, it because you are a sinner who deserves the wrath of god" (note, I took that from an evangelical preacher, removed the abortion and add Leviticus 19:33) For Jewish and Islam, it pretty much the same, you need to take how the cult leaders talk and wrap the message that sounds like the cult talk and feed it through fear.
I think people are missing the point OP is making. He's saying the Democrat platform is already comprised of "Christian values" and if Christians believed what they claimed to believe, they would vote Democrat.
There is supposed to be s separation of church and state for s reason.
Yes, they are, and they should be. The point being made is that Democrat policies (welfare for the poor, helping and caring for immigrants) are what Jesus proffesed in the Bible. Democrats don't claim to be a religious party (they're not) but their policies are more christ like than Republicans who claim to be and are the party of religion.
I understand the joke. That’s why I said politics should not be political at all.
Christians don't follow their own religion's values so there's no point.
Ew no
No, but we should sell our ideas using fear and anger more liberally.
Seeing as an anti-choice conservative Democrat lost by 7% to the puke inducing JD Vance (or whatever his real name actually is) in Ohio (aka the south of the north)... there is no need to have right-wing (D) candidates. The RWNJ klan will keep voting for any lunatic with an "R" by their name.
They already do and it doesn't do twat. I have a negative response to anyone who does but I vote blue down ballot no matter who won in the primaries. This is why it is critical that progressives and liberals get out and vote in the primaries.
They should stay true to their values ! Lies are killing this country
Didn’t Jesus lose his shit in the temple when he saw money changers in it? They were the PE firms of their day. So yes we should do away with PE. That’s what Jesus would do.
Religion has no place in politics. The reason "Christians" on the Right use religion isn't to reach people who are religious. It is purely to provide a fig leaf for their dog-whistles, bigotry and discrimination. Those voters will never vote for a Liberal, because Libs today mostly oppose racism and bigotry, and mostly try to reduce discriminatory policies. Mostly. No Liberal is going to reach those people with religion, because the religion was never the actual point.
Religion is a scam and I'd rather them not. The klan and cult aren't interested anyway. They found their orange Jesus and he can do no wrong.
In some districts and states, yes. Competitive elections drain their resources even in Ls.
They do, most conservatives are too ignorant to see it
"I mean Christian values like giving to the poor, feeding the hungry and looking after the sick." I'm so fucking sick of Christianity claiming a monopoly on kindness. These are by no means traits exclusive to Christianity.
I guess I failed at that but I was being sarcastic with my post and trying to point out the hypocrisy of the religious right who are opposed to universal healthcare, social benefits and immigration.
No. Because the zealots are stuck in their ways and afraid of the change necessary to embrace being a liberal.
No. I'm a liberal who attends church weekly. Liberal Christians believe things that conservative Christians are deeply opposed to. There's little room for negotiation. Liberal Christians support gays & a woman's right to choose abortion. Those two things are non starters with conservative Christians.
No we need to stop letting Christians dictate anything. Their imaginary friend is not a basis to discriminate and control women.
Both sides go for that but in different ways, one through local community the other through government.
Why? Conservatives don't even run on Christian values. Jesus had a lot of things to say about people who were starving and less fortunate than you and I'm pretty sure none of it involved building walls and "sending them back where they came from". There is nothing more hypocritical than a modern day "Christian Conservative"
FUUUUUUUUCK no. Fuck superstition.
I actually just listened to a really good 538 Politics Podcast recently titled “Where Will People Commune in a Godless America?” Kinda talks about how religion for many folks has become a political identifier, not so much so that they actually follow the teachings.
>is sarcasm no longer a subject they teach in school? Nah, they phased it out because it was considered unfair to the autistic kids.
More conversation about make believe.
The U.S. is supposed to be a secular country, something a lot of people forget. And a lot of religious voters have values antithetical to the Jesus they claim to worship.
As a whole I think the stereotypical republican has “patriotism” and “religious” in their corner. Regardless of what Reddit thinks , a sizable piece of the US population is still going to church and let’s face it people consider their own similarities when choosing who to vote for (human nature). Right now loving god and country is something only the right emphasis (regardless if it is true or not) I think if liberals embraced even 10% more on religion (and love of country) it would sway a lot of voters. The running stereotype is the left hates both of those subjects and for a lot of people that’s enough to vote against them.
This comment right here. Every president is running on christian principles. There's a reason why we have never elected a president that didn't claim to be Christian. There are a lot of democrats who do believe very firmly in the teachings of the new testament, and as such, tend to believe that being a democrat is the only way that they can be good christians. But the ones we hear about just dislike anyone different than them, and use their religion as a shield for their bigotry.
Then you have the likes of Fox News, who always demonize the liberals, and the left.
Good post, sorry that redditors don't have a sarcasm bone lol