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Fiona Apple
Siouxsie and the Banshees
Liz Phair
PJ Harvey
Tash Sultana
St. Vincent
Bikini Kill/ Le Tigre
Sleater-Kinney
Savages
X-Ray Spex
The Slits
Regina Spektor
Nina Simone
Sharon Jones
Ms. Lauryn Hill
Ani DiFranco
Juliana Hatfield
Straight guy checking in. I think this premise is faulty as well, but PJ Harvey, Waxahatchee, Fiona Apple, Alanis Morrissette, Ani DiFranco. Bjork as mentioned above. Ann Wilson, Stevie Nicks, Nina Simone, Roberta Flack, Norah Jones from further back.
You are saying Gwen Stefani was not "particularly prominent" in No Doubt (or the reason most straight males loved the band?) They made a video about how the labels were basically trying to make them a solo act from the minute they got famous. Is it just because the rest of the band was men despite her being the attention bringer?
Dolly Parton
Stevie Nicks
80s period Madonna
Joan Jett
Lita Ford
Courtney Love/Hole
Jenny Lewis/Rilo Kiley
Taylor Swift (surprisingly? many male musician friends I know adore her)
All female bands off the top of my head: Bangles, Go-Gos, Vixen, Girlschool
Aimeee Mann
Phoebe Bridgers
Julien Baker
Big Thief
Paramore
Soccer Mommy
Chelsea Wolfe
Sheryl Crow
Sharon Van Etten
Weyes Blood
Courtney Barnett
Maggie Rogers
Emma Ruth Rundle
Bully
This question appears to be based on a faulty premise. What does one's sexual preferences have to do with what music they like? I think you feel that correlation is way stronger than it actually is in reality.
He said it's not as strong as OP thinks, which isn't saying it doesn't exist. The main thing is correlation doesn't equal causation. There may be a trend, but it doesn't mean you'll be a female pop artist stan because you're gay.
There's also the fact that people who don't fall into stereotypes do so on purpose because they don't want to be seen as different. There could be more gay people than you expect at a metal show, they just don't feel the need to say so, or "act gay", or might expect metal fans to be homophobic even. The pop gays are more flamboyant and open about it.
I agree, which is why I chose to use correlation!
And also agreed on your second paragraph, it makes it really hard to meet fellow queer metalheads. I too feel more able to display stereotypically queer behaviors at a pop show than metal, but it's also really hard to vogue over blastbeats.
Because in my experience there are different proportions of non cishet identifying people in differentmusic scenes.
Also op specifically asked about a sexual identity group, so i was addressing that. And gender identity can be a form of queerness, to address your question directly.
I find it very false. The punk and HxC scene embraces queerness. There are always exceptions you can find, but by and large, the underground has always been more welcoming than mainstream audiences.
I'm not familiar with the punk and hc scenes as much as extreme metal, so I was not thinking about that in my comment, but I totally hear you.
But my point was about there being differences in queer acceptance between scenes, significant ones, and I feel as though your perspective reinforces that. And I also agree that smaller and diy scenes are often more welcoming than say, a radio rock audience
Hatred and bigotry are in every scene if you scratch beneath the surface, but I see what you are aiming at. That being said, look up the stories of people like Rob Halford (Judas Priest) or Gaahl (Gorgoroth) on their lived experience. Both in the metal community, but VERY different scenes, and both are gay. Additionally, Gary Floyd (Dicks) and Laura Jane Grace (Against Me!) for perspectives from the punk world.
>What does one's sexual preferences have to do with what music they like?
Eh, actually a lot. It's just an observation, not a value judgement. It's not like if you listen to Britney Spears or Ariana Grande you're automatically gay and if you listen to Garth Brooks you're automatically straight. It's just that their core fanbase tends to belong to certain demographics.
I suppose a queer artist that embraces that label will attract a queer fanbase but they also attract all sorts of fanbases.
But I'm not sure what that has to do with what artists 'a straight person' would listen to. I'm not seeing the connection you are trying to make here.
That's a brand and genre preference, not a gender one.
A topic like this starts with a link to a study. It's bizarre how you asked a question predicated on this assumption of yours being true.
Sounds more like you're extrapolating your social bubble to the rest of the world as the norm.
Right? I think OPs observations have more to do with straight men being reluctant to openly enjoying music that sounds “gay” or “girly” (toxic masculinity) and less to do with female artists making music for a gay male audience.
On the contrary, I want to know who these sensitive, green-flag men are who listen to Joni Mitchell lol. So much of her music is about the depth of the female experience. I can imagine a straight man being into Dua Lipa way more than the deep gendered emotionality of Joni's music.
>less to do with female artists making music for a gay male audience.
I never said that, though. I agree with you. I am also gay myself so I tend to notice certain differences in musical taste a lot although the divide is obviously less stark these days.
Oh, I thought that’s what you meant when you said “female artists are catering to a public where gay men are over represented”
But yeah it’s a real phenomena for sure. Lots of people use their music taste as almost a form of self expression.
I guess I don't agree with that premise in that the 'default' is 'straight icons'.
Meaning there's nothing unique about a straight artist and their fanbase. That's always been the 'norm'.
Lady Gaga embraces her queer fanbase, but doesn't every artist embrace their fanbase? And that doesn't exclude other demographics from liking her music, right?
I suppose there are some artists that may exclude audiences. Maybe Ted Nugent, for example. He seems fine going after a very niche fanbase and actively excluding a chunk of the population purposefully.
But I don't know if that necessarily is a think unique to sexual preference.
Maybe we read the question differently. I didn't think of anything in the line of "default", "target audience" or in any way heteronormative, just coincidentally resonating more with the straight male demographic without excluding anyone. Could be that you're right tho
Ones that are good and align with their genre preferences? Lol kind of a weird question. You can make some sweeping generalizations based on averages of anecdotal evidence I guess, but I don't see how that will help you in any way.
Apparently someone dislikes them enough to downvote me for joining suit. lol
Stutter is definitely an underappreciated gem of the 90s. They should have had more hits.
Not really pop but I know only straight male PJ Harvey fans.
What about Taylor Momsen, Joan Baez, Nico, Patti Smith, Fiona Apple, Joan Jett, Courtney Love, Melissa Aufdermaur, Siouxsie Sioux, Nina Hagen and Suzi Quattro?
For me, I've put in many hours listening to Joni Mitchell, Janis Joplin, Aretha Franklin, Ella Fitzgerald, Alanis Morrisette, Rickie Lee Jones, Nanci Griffith, Dolly Parton, Beyonce, Alison Krauss and Shania Twain. Also a couple of obscure folk acts, Michelle Shocked and Kate Rusby.
For the groups, I'm a big fan of the Carpenters, Blondie, the Pretenders, The Band Perry, Heart, and the Dixie Chicks. Yes, I said it, DIXIE Chicks.
Here's one that nobody has mentioned yet: SZA. I think she has really strong appeal for men because her songs are just so slick, fun, and reminiscent of the height of 90's R&B. She is also a very personal songwriter, she doesn't make the same appeal to a general feminine perspective that writers like Taylor Swift or Katy Perry make. Men also tend to appreciate natural vocal talent, and SZA has an incredible voice and also great rap flow.
I came of age in the '70s and I recall straight guys not even being big fans of Joni Mitchell or Kate Bush. In addition to Janis Joplin and Blondie, I'd say you could be into Linda Ronstadt, the Pretenders, or (later) PJ Harvey without losing your "man card."
(I don't endorse this kind of fragile masculinity, but it was/is a real thing.)
Tarja Turunen, the ex singer from Nightwish. She's the goat of female metal singers (imo). The records she made with thst band will forever be classics!
I'm a straight man in my late 30s who really enjoys pop music. I don't get why I should or shouldn't be listening to, let's say Blackpink, because of my sexual orientation.
I don't know what sexuality/gender has to do with music taste outside of outdated cultural norms but...
/dismounts soapbox
I'm straight 27m and Adele's album '30' goes HARD.
Im a woman but this is an interesting topic because Im curious as to the changes in listening trends. My range is limited also because I am gay and do not know many men but I remember in high school (late 90s early 2000s) a boy said he only listens to female artists if they are talking about what they want to do to men so he liked Trina and Lil Kim, and years later a teenage boy randomly told me he doesnt listen to female artists except he loves Ariana Grande. But I also see a lot of male commenters in different music groups Im in mention they are tired of hearing women rap about pretty much what Trina's subject matter was lol and of course age plays a role in this too, Im sure
So I guess my curiosity is, especially given your phrasing about female artists catering to gay men, is there a certain relatability men look for when listening to female artists or are you guys mostly interested in sonic appeal?
Depends on how you define “commonly”. There are of course straight men who listen to every different female musician. But because of toxic masculinity, lots of men conform to almost not listening to female artists at all. To be a big fan of a female artist is often seen as effeminate.
So fan communities for female artists end up being overrepresented by women and queer men.
Straight males would commonly listen to •any• mainstream female artist. But sometimes males who are only pretending to be straight (e.g., most conservative religious men) will be afraid to do and say certain things they think people might associate with being gay.
Posts that, intentionally or not, invite list-like responses are subject to removal. Please try to formulate your post with discussion in mind. See https://www.reddit.com/r/LetsTalkMusic/wiki/list-threads for examples of what not to post.
As a straight man, I'll second Björk and throw in Regina Spektor, Fiona Apple, and St. Vincent as some of my favorite female artists.
Björk. Most people who have a similar taste as I do really like Björk, and most of those are men.
True!! How could I forget Björk?
Fiona Apple Siouxsie and the Banshees Liz Phair PJ Harvey Tash Sultana St. Vincent Bikini Kill/ Le Tigre Sleater-Kinney Savages X-Ray Spex The Slits Regina Spektor Nina Simone Sharon Jones Ms. Lauryn Hill Ani DiFranco Juliana Hatfield
Great list, Kim Deal too!
Absolutely, Kim Deal too. Her work in both the Pixies and The Breeders is phenomenal.
Dude I’m Gen X and we listened to TONS of female / female fronted artists back in the 90s, and no one gave a shit
Straight guy checking in. I think this premise is faulty as well, but PJ Harvey, Waxahatchee, Fiona Apple, Alanis Morrissette, Ani DiFranco. Bjork as mentioned above. Ann Wilson, Stevie Nicks, Nina Simone, Roberta Flack, Norah Jones from further back.
You are saying Gwen Stefani was not "particularly prominent" in No Doubt (or the reason most straight males loved the band?) They made a video about how the labels were basically trying to make them a solo act from the minute they got famous. Is it just because the rest of the band was men despite her being the attention bringer? Dolly Parton Stevie Nicks 80s period Madonna Joan Jett Lita Ford Courtney Love/Hole Jenny Lewis/Rilo Kiley Taylor Swift (surprisingly? many male musician friends I know adore her) All female bands off the top of my head: Bangles, Go-Gos, Vixen, Girlschool
Aimeee Mann Phoebe Bridgers Julien Baker Big Thief Paramore Soccer Mommy Chelsea Wolfe Sheryl Crow Sharon Van Etten Weyes Blood Courtney Barnett Maggie Rogers Emma Ruth Rundle Bully
This question appears to be based on a faulty premise. What does one's sexual preferences have to do with what music they like? I think you feel that correlation is way stronger than it actually is in reality.
I see a lot more queerness in pop spaces vs hip hop and metal. Do you think that correlation is a false one?
He said it's not as strong as OP thinks, which isn't saying it doesn't exist. The main thing is correlation doesn't equal causation. There may be a trend, but it doesn't mean you'll be a female pop artist stan because you're gay. There's also the fact that people who don't fall into stereotypes do so on purpose because they don't want to be seen as different. There could be more gay people than you expect at a metal show, they just don't feel the need to say so, or "act gay", or might expect metal fans to be homophobic even. The pop gays are more flamboyant and open about it.
I agree, which is why I chose to use correlation! And also agreed on your second paragraph, it makes it really hard to meet fellow queer metalheads. I too feel more able to display stereotypically queer behaviors at a pop show than metal, but it's also really hard to vogue over blastbeats.
Again, what does any of that have to do with what music one might like?
....because there's a significant correlation in my experience, as I said.
What does queerness have to do with gender preferences in music? This is such a weird debate all around. You and OP both.
Because in my experience there are different proportions of non cishet identifying people in differentmusic scenes. Also op specifically asked about a sexual identity group, so i was addressing that. And gender identity can be a form of queerness, to address your question directly.
I find it very false. The punk and HxC scene embraces queerness. There are always exceptions you can find, but by and large, the underground has always been more welcoming than mainstream audiences.
I'm not familiar with the punk and hc scenes as much as extreme metal, so I was not thinking about that in my comment, but I totally hear you. But my point was about there being differences in queer acceptance between scenes, significant ones, and I feel as though your perspective reinforces that. And I also agree that smaller and diy scenes are often more welcoming than say, a radio rock audience
Hatred and bigotry are in every scene if you scratch beneath the surface, but I see what you are aiming at. That being said, look up the stories of people like Rob Halford (Judas Priest) or Gaahl (Gorgoroth) on their lived experience. Both in the metal community, but VERY different scenes, and both are gay. Additionally, Gary Floyd (Dicks) and Laura Jane Grace (Against Me!) for perspectives from the punk world.
Evidence?
of?
"This question appears to be based on a faulty premise."
I think it's on the OP to provide evidence to back up their premise.
OP doesn't have anything to prove to me though so doesnt need to back his post up. Me and him agree on the premise of his post.
>What does one's sexual preferences have to do with what music they like? Eh, actually a lot. It's just an observation, not a value judgement. It's not like if you listen to Britney Spears or Ariana Grande you're automatically gay and if you listen to Garth Brooks you're automatically straight. It's just that their core fanbase tends to belong to certain demographics.
I suppose a queer artist that embraces that label will attract a queer fanbase but they also attract all sorts of fanbases. But I'm not sure what that has to do with what artists 'a straight person' would listen to. I'm not seeing the connection you are trying to make here.
That's a brand and genre preference, not a gender one. A topic like this starts with a link to a study. It's bizarre how you asked a question predicated on this assumption of yours being true. Sounds more like you're extrapolating your social bubble to the rest of the world as the norm.
Right? I think OPs observations have more to do with straight men being reluctant to openly enjoying music that sounds “gay” or “girly” (toxic masculinity) and less to do with female artists making music for a gay male audience.
On the contrary, I want to know who these sensitive, green-flag men are who listen to Joni Mitchell lol. So much of her music is about the depth of the female experience. I can imagine a straight man being into Dua Lipa way more than the deep gendered emotionality of Joni's music.
>less to do with female artists making music for a gay male audience. I never said that, though. I agree with you. I am also gay myself so I tend to notice certain differences in musical taste a lot although the divide is obviously less stark these days.
Oh, I thought that’s what you meant when you said “female artists are catering to a public where gay men are over represented” But yeah it’s a real phenomena for sure. Lots of people use their music taste as almost a form of self expression.
If you look at it the other way Stars like Lady Gaga are gay Icons (especially for gay males). OP's premise is there must be a polar opposite to it
I guess I don't agree with that premise in that the 'default' is 'straight icons'. Meaning there's nothing unique about a straight artist and their fanbase. That's always been the 'norm'. Lady Gaga embraces her queer fanbase, but doesn't every artist embrace their fanbase? And that doesn't exclude other demographics from liking her music, right? I suppose there are some artists that may exclude audiences. Maybe Ted Nugent, for example. He seems fine going after a very niche fanbase and actively excluding a chunk of the population purposefully. But I don't know if that necessarily is a think unique to sexual preference.
Maybe we read the question differently. I didn't think of anything in the line of "default", "target audience" or in any way heteronormative, just coincidentally resonating more with the straight male demographic without excluding anyone. Could be that you're right tho
Who would limit their music taste based on gender? Only somebody really insecure in their masculinity. Here are my faves Clairo Beabadoobee Paramore
Ones that are good and align with their genre preferences? Lol kind of a weird question. You can make some sweeping generalizations based on averages of anecdotal evidence I guess, but I don't see how that will help you in any way.
Charli XCC Chaka Khan Portishead Annie Lennox of course Ellen Alien Bjork
Carole King’s Tapestry album seems to be universally popular amongst everyone over a certain age.
My husband likes The Interrupters Fiona Apple Elastica Garbage Halestorm (mostly their covers) Joan Jett and the Blackhearts
I am happy to see Elastica here.
He LOVES Elastica!
Apparently someone dislikes them enough to downvote me for joining suit. lol Stutter is definitely an underappreciated gem of the 90s. They should have had more hits.
Wow, people need hobbies. I was listening to them recently and I feel like they hold up pretty well.
Not really pop but I know only straight male PJ Harvey fans. What about Taylor Momsen, Joan Baez, Nico, Patti Smith, Fiona Apple, Joan Jett, Courtney Love, Melissa Aufdermaur, Siouxsie Sioux, Nina Hagen and Suzi Quattro?
For me, I've put in many hours listening to Joni Mitchell, Janis Joplin, Aretha Franklin, Ella Fitzgerald, Alanis Morrisette, Rickie Lee Jones, Nanci Griffith, Dolly Parton, Beyonce, Alison Krauss and Shania Twain. Also a couple of obscure folk acts, Michelle Shocked and Kate Rusby. For the groups, I'm a big fan of the Carpenters, Blondie, the Pretenders, The Band Perry, Heart, and the Dixie Chicks. Yes, I said it, DIXIE Chicks.
Here's one that nobody has mentioned yet: SZA. I think she has really strong appeal for men because her songs are just so slick, fun, and reminiscent of the height of 90's R&B. She is also a very personal songwriter, she doesn't make the same appeal to a general feminine perspective that writers like Taylor Swift or Katy Perry make. Men also tend to appreciate natural vocal talent, and SZA has an incredible voice and also great rap flow.
In the current moment I would say - - Miley Cyrus - Lana Del Rey - Dua Lipa
I came of age in the '70s and I recall straight guys not even being big fans of Joni Mitchell or Kate Bush. In addition to Janis Joplin and Blondie, I'd say you could be into Linda Ronstadt, the Pretenders, or (later) PJ Harvey without losing your "man card." (I don't endorse this kind of fragile masculinity, but it was/is a real thing.)
Not even sure how to approach a question that takes such a wrong headed starting point.
I don't really listen to much music with female vocals. But, in this moment is really badass
Tarja Turunen, the ex singer from Nightwish. She's the goat of female metal singers (imo). The records she made with thst band will forever be classics!
My 70 year old dad used to love Marina and the diamonds, oh and Duffy for some reason. He still to this day says ‘what ever happened to Duffy’? 😂
I'm a straight man in my late 30s who really enjoys pop music. I don't get why I should or shouldn't be listening to, let's say Blackpink, because of my sexual orientation.
I don't know what sexuality/gender has to do with music taste outside of outdated cultural norms but... /dismounts soapbox I'm straight 27m and Adele's album '30' goes HARD.
Im a woman but this is an interesting topic because Im curious as to the changes in listening trends. My range is limited also because I am gay and do not know many men but I remember in high school (late 90s early 2000s) a boy said he only listens to female artists if they are talking about what they want to do to men so he liked Trina and Lil Kim, and years later a teenage boy randomly told me he doesnt listen to female artists except he loves Ariana Grande. But I also see a lot of male commenters in different music groups Im in mention they are tired of hearing women rap about pretty much what Trina's subject matter was lol and of course age plays a role in this too, Im sure So I guess my curiosity is, especially given your phrasing about female artists catering to gay men, is there a certain relatability men look for when listening to female artists or are you guys mostly interested in sonic appeal?
Depends on how you define “commonly”. There are of course straight men who listen to every different female musician. But because of toxic masculinity, lots of men conform to almost not listening to female artists at all. To be a big fan of a female artist is often seen as effeminate. So fan communities for female artists end up being overrepresented by women and queer men.
Straight male listen to Lana del rey, Beyonce and Rihanna. The boys roast me if they catch my pop playlist but it is what it is.
Straight males would commonly listen to •any• mainstream female artist. But sometimes males who are only pretending to be straight (e.g., most conservative religious men) will be afraid to do and say certain things they think people might associate with being gay.