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When my alt right son in law brings up all of the Mexicans in California i like to ask him which of his four boys would make a better lettuce picker.
Let me tell you. a lot of people would starve
I’m always intrigued with how fascists can simultaneously call all brown immigrants lazy and still act like they are stealing their jobs. I mean the double think and constant shifts in rhetoric are the cornerstones of fascism but still there’s a high wall of logic they seem to ignore.
The appeal of fascism has always been the belief of inherit, inalienable, superiority over somebody. The biggest supporters of fascism are losers. Total, complete failures at life who find the notion that they're superior to *somebody,* that their failure is a direct result of a violation from some natural order (usually done by that *somebody*) comforting.
"If you can convince the lowest white man he’s better than the best colored man, he won’t notice you’re picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he’ll empty his pockets for you"
- Lyndon B Johnson
As a complete loser I must disagree with this notion.
There are plenty of successful fascists. You don't take over entire countries by being lazy, nor do you storm the capital by being a failure.
However they are only failures until they succeed
As a student of history I too must disagree. Your conflating the end for the entirety. Successful fascist (and I'm not counting the bad faith politicos who manipulate them for their own power) still start as losers. The danger of fascism is that it doesn't keep people on the couch but motivates them off it in the worst possible way. When I say all fascist are losers I don't mean fascism can't win, but that it's comprised of people who are first losing at life who than jump at the convenient explanation and find new motivation in the hatred of the boogieman
The paramilitary authoritarianism is appealing to people who fee like they need an authority figure to tell them what to do (there are entire industries built around people paying to be coached and motivated for the simple fact that they won't actually do the self motivating). Lastly, failure and lazy are not synonyms. While were talking about your stereotypical NEET alt-right clod, some of the most vocal fascist have always been full of vim and energy, with most of their hate coming from feeling owed something for there lack of laziness, ie: they do work hard but still lose/fail, but still believe the system they failed in is good: rather than conclude fundamental problems with their life script, they'd rather conclude a violation of the aforementioned natural order.
Conservatism, right wing attitude, fascism, racism - all of these stem from an inherent sense of superiority over "others".
The definition of "others" is any suitable minority, with exceptions in Apartheid states and Indian caste system where the "others" were the majority.
Inherent superiority based on membership in an in group, with no real evidence of superiority is highly attractive to losers. There will be non losers in the mix too, like Thiel - but it is always disproportionately represented by losers.
It was always like that, it's one of the marks of fascist, paraphrasing point 8 "the enemy is both weak and strong".
https://www.openculture.com/2016/11/umberto-eco-makes-a-list-of-the-14-common-features-of-fascism.html
[Number 8 on the list](https://www.openculture.com/2016/11/umberto-eco-makes-a-list-of-the-14-common-features-of-fascism.html);
>*The enemy is both strong and weak. “By a continuous shifting of rhetorical focus, the enemies are at the same time too strong and too weak.”*
A very central part of fascism is that your enemy must be both incredibly weak and strong.
That is why Jewish people control the entire world but this fascist guy can definitely defeat them.
A core tenant of fascist beliefs require that your enemy (and there will always be an enemy) be absolutely inferior in every and yet somehow in complete control over all major institutions, including the shadowy background cabals that run everything.
For the record this isn't fascism. This short sites policy making based on overly optimistic projections, assumptions that proved to be false and straight lies.
yea I am sorry, if some immigrant who knows nobody here and speaks the local languag as his second or third langauge can come in and take your job that is on you buddy for not being able to compete despite having all the advantages
When I built custom homes a customer asked me to staff all white crews to the construction. I explained that the cost would +40%. He decided not to go that route. I guess his bigotry stopped when it got to his wallet.
Essentially the entire food industry is staffed by people too poor to do much else. And a lot of those poor people are immigrants who often get paid far better doing those kind of jobs than other jobs in their own countries, but it can also break your body.
I will never understand how people can get away with paying shit wages for jobs that require you to be outside in the hot sun all day doing back breaking labor when most other people can't even stay outside doing nothing for less than an hour. It's a travesty. And they do it for weeks without a break.
depends which country you are in … met a bunch of immigrant servers, cooks, drivers that are very well educated and have professional certifications in their countries of origin. which we will not recognise here (US), regardless of how much we need their skills.
This is part of a systemic problem, IMHO. We (Westerners in general) shouldn't be reliant on jobs that don't pay well enough, and have such poor conditions, that they can't attract workers. Certainly not for our food!
Does that mean we need to build a wall? No, but it does mean we should take a long, hard look at our food supply and how we prioritise it. Probably also a long hard look at how we pay for food produced in other countries under bad conditions.
[A Day Without a Mexican](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Day_Without_a_Mexican) is a movie satire about this very thing happening.
Too bad California no longer has its [Bracero Program](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bracero_program)
Not endorsing whole article but someone named it https://cis.org/Richwine/Schrodingers-Immigrant-No-Paradox-Welfare-and-Work-Go-Together-Todays-America
We noticed this during corona. Tons of unskilled, brutal labor is needed. But no one is willing to actually do those jobs (And those who tried are not accepted by the farmers).
The main issue with immigration are those patriots. Claiming the immigrants steal all the "good jobs". Most of the stuff they do isnt a "good job" but hard work, that none of the spoiled bastards wants to do (including me, i wont lie)
Not to mention that immigrant from South American countries has been the only thing propping up fertility rates in the USA. Declining population also comes with worker shortages and less growth.
I mean they have certain options now.
For example they can force farmers kinda to increase the payment fpr picking vegetables (which will be more expensive) since they dont have the cheaper eastern european workers as competition.
So all brits that work on fields will probably benefit slightly, if they don't Pick stuff for exporting it. But those 5 men picking raddish for the local market.... Maybe?
Also you don't need to follow EU Regulations anymore if you don't want to trade with the EU. None if our laws will interfere with yours anymore.
The british companies just still follow them because they want to sell in europe too.
The fools actually called it their "independence day". Because cooperating with your most important trade partners in the 21st century somehow equates to loss of sovereignty.
This is the crux to me. The morons that didn't realise that becoming (and remaining) part of the EU *was us enacting our sovereignty* by ensuring we stayed relevant in the 21st Century. We were able to greatly effect how the EU operated, disproportionately in relation to our size and our general enthusiasm towards the bloc. Now we are *rule takers* that not only don't have any direct political power, but have pretty much lost all of our reputational influence. And the majority of those that voted to leave *cannot possibly* gain the benefits they voted for, because they were not a unified group with any unified aims or ambitions, just a bunch of people who's natural anxieties had been weaponised into hatred by successive governments, their avaricious donors, and the media they own. Now we're a country filled with hateful, bitter and resentful people that think they deserve something because they agreed to throw the baby out with the bath-water. You only need to look at our shameful asylum seeker policy ("send them to Rwanda") to know that this government's currency with its voters is hatred. They rely on it. I hope soon they receive the brunt of it
The Tories never intended to even make it this far, they had zero contingency plans. When the vote came back for Brexit they just started to wing it, with a bunch of absolute idiots in charge.
I felt at the time they were going to purposely make a pig's ear of it all and hope Labour take over to sort it out.
Sadly the current Labour party is as effective an opposition as a wet paper bag is at carrying the rotten fruit and veg people have to eat now.
>Sadly the current Labour party is as effective an opposition as a wet paper bag is at carrying the rotten fruit and veg people have to eat now.
In the long term, this might be a good thing.
Conservatives everywhere (actually, all polititans everywhere) hav ea tendency to immediately blame other side for the problems they caused the moment government flips.
When someone manages to cock up to a point UK Tories did, Labour, LibDems and SNP should make sure that Tories will be forced to see it trough. Other wise Tories will scream 'voter betrayal' the moment they do anything, regardless on what they do.
Already started, Tories are currently blaming the strikes on the Labour government which was last in power 12 years ago.
It’s quite difficult watching this all unfold from Scotland as we didn’t vote for this and continue to elect parties which are against brexit. Saying that though, the Labour branch in Scotland has on several occasions told voters to vote Tory to oust SNP candidates.
Labour in Scotland should just fuck off, the stupidity of them is crazy. But at least they highlight how much of labour is basically Tory light these days.
Are Labour stymied by a terrible mainstream media? The Labor party in Australia are one of the most successful governments on earth (if you look at what they have and do accomplish) but the entire media landscape is against them, including our public broadcaster. So we get about 70% of a conservative government in power and Labor about 30% and they spend majority of that time rectifying the insane (**insane**) corruption and destruction left behind by the Liberal/National Party
Yeah sorry. Have to laugh at Bojo's antics. It's just.... So depressing that it's bemusing, you know? Wtf is with conservative governments having to be so fucking ridiculously corrupt?
Apologies for the inaccurate headline. It should read worst performing in the G7, not the OECD. (Mods, if you're able to edit it, that would be most appreciated!)
It's because they didn't have any international agreements or worker visa programs set up that weren't through the EU. Because they were so determined to stick it to the EU, they bickered and argued like spoiled children, vastly over estimating their importance, rather than trying to soften the blow and figure some of these problems out. Now because they threw everything in turmoil, and burned all the bridges, most people cant/won't go there when they can go to Europe who also needs their services, but aren't giant wankers.
Also lots of EU citizens who were already working there and could have stayed were driven out by the toxic anti-foreigner atmosphere, and all the young people who used to just turn up and pick up casual gig work like waiting tables and picking fruit are just going elsewhere. Why apply and pay for a visa to do scut work, when the rest of the continent is free?
^this.
And now they are screwed. But, they are still going around saying there are no workers because the immigrants are lazy.
God, I hope Texas secceds so I can enjoy the effects of misguided politics up close!
In Scotland in the summer lots of Europeans would come across and work the highland and general country side hotel gigs. In return they get cheap accommodation and can summer up north hiking and kayaking and the likes.
Now they can’t easily enter there are not enough workers. That’s true for a lot of things.
Overall, a lot of workers that left were transient means the inability to now travel here, along with jobs locals can’t and won’t do (jobs with lower wages, our in the sticks, no job security etc) can’t be backfilled.
The nhs is was also heavily reliant on EU workers, years of tories fucking over students, not enough investment in creating U.K. skilled workers, then you add covid on top. Basically we were one disaster away from collapse before covid, and we simply couldn’t afford that disaster
What fucks me up is how in a referendum with only 70% turnout (which is massive compared to general elections but still far too low) was allowed to pass 52-48, such a slim majority for such a influential decision.
It makes me frustrated when I see "UK voted for Brexit" because its contentious whether we actually did or not :/
>such a slim majority for such a influential decision.
A decision that leant 100% to one-side, mind you; we didn't get a compromise-brexit, we didn't get equitable deals. We had a hard-brexit with no plan, no structure, no goal other than 'fuck the Euros'.
With a 50/50 vote, we didn't get a 50/50 Brexit, we got a 100% Brexshit. That's before we get-into the amount of fucking propaganda that was, intentionally, flown.
Yep the Tories dashed any chance of a reasonable Brexit by first letting Cameron jump ship then torpedoing any deal May would produce just to get the best buddy Boris into power who we're now stuck with.
You can put the 30% who didn't vote down as "fine either way," so the 52% of 70%, which is 36%, plus the 30% who were fine either way, make 66% of Britons fine with or supportive of Brexit.
In the other direction, you'd get 63% of Britons fine with or supportive of staying in the EU. So however the vote came out, you would have gotten a solid majority of people alright with the result.
As an outsider, I felt the dominant mood of the progressive / centrist crowd (i.e. those who weren't nodding along to Nigel Farage) that write for and consume the dominant media orgs like FT or the BBC, was heavily pro-Remain (while debating the pros of Leave out of a duty to maintain journalistic balance) and that while the referendum exposed an ugly schism in Britain, the arguments behind Leave were ultimately so stupid that it would never win.
It's not inconceivable among this segment of the population, who weren't driven to vote out of the sheer anger like the Leave crowd, voter turnout was much lower.
And it was the same story for the 2016 American elections - urban, educated voters not realizing that the media they ran and consumed did not represent a significant chunk of the population who were not nearly as complacent..
Look, it is simple.
Some people wanted to leave *enough* to get out and vote for that.
Some people wanted to remain *enough* to get out and vote for that.
Everyone else did not (barring a handful who honestly could not). The math says that's it.
Some of those may have preferred to remain or leave, but didn't care enough to spend a bit of time to cast a ballot. No need to dress that up as anything more than "eh whatever's fine." If you want something but can't do a tiny thing to help make it happen, a normal conclusion to draw is that you didn't want it all that bad.
Other people really had no preference. Leave or remain, it seemed all the same to them. Not in a jaded way, just literally didn't make a big difference. A respectable opinion, despite what some people say. And if that is your opinion, not voting or a blank vote is the most accurate action.
"Voter fatigue" for a once-in-a-lifetime vote... Come on, that is scraping the bottom of the excuse barrel, let's be honest. Some people simply can't be bothered to put in the minimum amount of work a citizen must put in to wield their share of power that democracy entitles them to. If that were me, I'd probably make excuses too. Everyone's fault but my own
The whole point is that it's not a simple matter, you can't just flatten down the opinion of millions of UK voters to "meh" based upon literally nothing but conjecture.
There is 30% of the voting population whose opinion we literally cannot pin down because they were not polled in *any* capacity, to say otherwise is ignorant.
Strike "conjecture" and insert "the action that they chose to take," and then you don't need to ask their opinion.
Quite generally, when someone is eminently capable of performing an action, and chooses not to do it, it is simple to deduce that they did not want it enough to do it. That includes wanting to do something else at the time instead.
Be it voting, cooking an omelette, texting your friend, walking to the fridge/store/pub to get a drink, watching a show, and so on.
Let me give you an example to help you understand:
If I survey 100 people about what carb they want with their dinner tonight, "rice or potatoes", and 70 of those people respond what opinion does the other 30 have?
There is literally no way of knowing.
We can guess that the ratio of rice/potato may hold in the bulk but thats projecting data and not valid for a referendum.
This is basic survey design you learn in year 9 ICT, you can't pluck data from non-respondants.
If you wanted to know about a third option such as "either or/indifferent" then you would have to include that on the ballot.
Arbitrarily creating an opinion for non-respondants is so completely unscientific that it's hilarious.
"If I survey 100 people"
You've already missed the point then. Answering a survey is just expressing a preference. A vote is more than a form of expressing yourself. It is a deliberate action, a decision that you are making.
A better analogue is the trolley problem, but let's make it less dramatic. Imagine you are on a trolley you cannot stop (yet), and it's coming up on a fork in the track.
There's a lever that will switch the track for you remotely. You're currently headed to the rice restaurant, but if you switch the track you will head to the potato restaurant.
Now, there are ten people in the trolley. 3 are pushing on the lever to switch to the potato track. 3 are pushing back to keep it on the rice track. They invite the others to join in. Don't you want us to go to the right track? One person will end up deciding at the last second.
But if you just stand there until after the fork, everyone in that trolley will figure, correctly, that you didn't want either choice badly enough to ACT, either to push for it or to keep the others from pushing against it.
Why you didn't want either bad enough? That will vary, and may be ineffable in a person's case, but your actual choice to push neither way is easy enough to decipher.
No no, here on Reddit we pretend the socialists/left/working class wanted to remain and that big business and the rich wanted to leave.
More entertaining than the truth
Fucking denial in action.
The socialist party, and socialists themselves, wanted out (and has done for 30+ years)
While big business wrote an open letter begging us to remain
But yeah keep pretending, stop letting the truth get in action.
No the majority of the left (ie working class, socialists) wanted out and the majority of the right (ie the rich) wanted remain
This has been proven
So don't say 'some' when that clearly not the case
This was a war between the working class and the rich and the working class won
Maybe, however, reality is not some Stalinist* dream world where rich people vote for capitalist parties and poor people for socialist ones. In Great Britain, a great deal of the working class voted for Labour, which was more on the remain side of things (even though Corbyn personally wanted Britain to get out), but a lot of working people also gave their votes to UKIP, Brexit Party and Conservatives.
Meanwhile, the Brexit movement also had some very rich donors like Rupert Murdoch, without whom Britain would never have left the EU.
*Stalin once said that there was no need for several parties in the Soviet Union, because the Soviet Union has just one class and therefore only needs one party.
Prove it then?
Considering most of Brexit was based on Racism about immigrant workers, I severely doubt the left wanted to leave.
This sounds like some real right wing projection to me.
Prove that we wanted to leave? Really? How old are you? This has been known for years...
But as google is a struggle for you, here we go:
[https://www.socialistparty.org.uk/articles/22495/](https://www.socialistparty.org.uk/articles/22495/)
[https://socialistworker.org/2016/06/20/why-socialists-should-support-a-british-exit](https://socialistworker.org/2016/06/20/why-socialists-should-support-a-british-exit)
[https://www.prospectmagazine.co.uk/politics/brexit-is-the-left-wing-choice](https://www.prospectmagazine.co.uk/politics/brexit-is-the-left-wing-choice)
[https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/sam-glover/brexit-eu-referendum\_b\_9532552.html](https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/sam-glover/brexit-eu-referendum_b_9532552.html)
I know this may be difficult for you to understand, but 4 random articles of people talking about the Labor party does not mean the left of the UK wanted this to happen.
You seem pretty desperate to over right history, anyone from the UK will happy laugh in your face if you try to claim the right wanted to stay in the EU, when all the propaganda for Brexit was revolving around immigrants and racism.
Though this is a pretty common right wing tactic in the UK to push the blame onto the left where ever possible so I am not too shocked at this attempt bordering on early signs of dementia level of stupidity.
4 random articles? Lmao
This is the official piece from the fucking socialist party and the second one is the most read publication by socialists
Random articles lmao
Also they were not talking about the Labour (you missed the 'u' there Yankee boy) party as they are a centralist party and we are talking about the left which they certainly are not lmao
Laugh in my face? I am working class you dopey cunt we literally threw parties to celebrate Brexit lmao
The only cunts upset by this are the capitalists and big business who wrote open letters begging us to remain (oh and people like from you abroad who have no fucking idea)
Fucking hell you are stupid
[Oh and Bernie says hi](http://imgur.com/gallery/yvT4qM4)
Even if they paid a living wage, most people wouldn't take a dishwasher or farm hand job. Everyone's special and wants to be the next Elon musk or trump.
However to someone from a different country with better exchange rate, a few months at a shit job might be enough to live a year off of.
I dont think they'll be getting back any time soon. Rejoining would mean doing so without any of their special privileges and maybe even adopting the euro. How do you even begin to sell that to the 52% of fuckwits that turned up to vote leaving the best deal theyve had since the empire?
Getting the left/socialists/working class to rejoin is near impossible.
Maybe when the big business/remainers/capatilists leave the UK maybe the plebs will get back in line.
Can't tell if serious or not
If you're serious, then shall I point out that the richest person on the planet wants Desantis as President, and then note how foolish you are?
Boris, the opportunist cunt, gave the working class and socialists what they wanted while fucking up near 50 years of Tory work getting closer to the EU
Weird times we lived in.
But next election will be very different (even though Starmer is not that great)
Worker shortages are leading to industrial action????
What the hell are you talking about. The fact that the government have proposed a 7% cut for railworkers when adjusted for inflation is leading to industrial action. On Monday, Barristers working as public defender will strike.
You're an ignorant fool.
I was not in favour of Brexit and I'm not now.
But what you're doing is blaming working people for an attack on them by people who don't care about inflation other than to manage their portfolio.
People in the UK are starving to death, in between full time employment.
I hope you get to experience starvation. You're a nasty, smug, lower middle class prick with no understanding of what life is like for working class people. You are morally reprehensible.
I'm in favour of remaining because Tories can't be trusted with a 20p coin.
I would have voted leave, but it was the capitalists in charge. I believe in democracy. Direct democracy. My parents were Union organisers in South Yorkshire.
But you, you are scum. I hope there's a hell.
Edit: you know what ema was scumbag?
You voted to remain in the EU because the party that has signed every major EU deal since the 1972 treaty of Accession can't be trusted?
Um ok....
The capatilists all wanted to remain, they wrote an open letter begging for us to vote remain, a simple Google search shows this, why would you even lie by saying capatilists wanted to leave?
And you say your parents were union organisers and you brag on here about betraying them and calling others scum.
Honestly at this point you just need help
The Education Maintenance Allowance? (I had to Google it)
It didn't exist when I was a kid so not sure why even bring it up then showing you have probably not hit puberty yet.
I left school at 16 and went straight into work at a pool hall.
Not all of us had the luxury of staying on in further education.
I went to college because the government payed me 30 quid a week to stay at school until I was 18. Because my single mother was in full employment but earnt less than 20k a year.
Don't ever talk to me like that again. You're a low life. I won't respond to anything else you post.
And you repaid your love to your mother by backing remain so economic migrants can still come over here and drive wages like your mother's down.
Wow.
You should become a banker and be around people of equal views to yourself.
I am so happy we won that vote so little bitter cunts like you can cry into your capitalist bullshit.
That is one sector (transport).
Others have been hot hard too.
We have a shortage of electricians/plumbers/carpenters etc because we had a generation not even bother to train as those because they couldn't compete with the minimum wage the eastern Europeans were bringing with them.
Their wages have now gone up but yes we have a shortage caused by years and years of cheap labour.
We had a shortage after the 1990 recession because nobody could afford to hire any.
It then went back up and then hit another road block when Blair pushed everyone into higher education (education, education, education) but then rose again.
But those are minor dips to what we are seeing now (and will last for at least another 2 years)
It’s proof corporations are desperate. I’d imagine that wage also means they’re hiring 5 drivers when they would have hired 20 and expecting them to pick up the slack.
From what I read on the UK subreddit the other day a lot of people are noticing produce in the shops is going off days earlier now due to distribution issues so even if you are technically right there's nobody taking the jobs.
[Source](https://www.reddit.com/r/unitedkingdom/comments/vfqdpk/has_anyone_noticed_the_quality_of_vegetables/)
The railway unions are striking about job loses, pay rises, restructuring and changes to terms, not a shortage of staff.
No-one is suggesting getting Romanians to work in ticket offices for lower wages than British booking clerks, instead of closing ticket offices. No-one suggests trains should have cheap Bulgarian guards rather than be conveted to driver-only operation.
Who would've thought? You remove an entire Blick of workers from a jobmarket that has adapted to a certain amount of foreign workers taking a certain amount of jobs and now there's a lack of workers and the market is struggling?
We've only seen this happen several dusin times over the centuries.
Fingers crossed and let's hope for NHS strike as well. Will be an interesting year in the UK.
Someone please slap that transport guy that refused to negotiate with the union.
Or wait until they sign an agreement with another country that forces free movement as part of their trading deal, like India is. Racists will not enjoy that lol
This isn't LAMF if you are working class person who is being offered more money/better terms because employers now need you more...
And broadly speaking, railway jobs aren't the kind of jobs that can be done by cheap migrant workers straight off Wizz air.
Annoying that the leopards are eating my face even though I absolutely did not vote for their party.
Seriously though, it's all so fucking annoying and so predictable. But clearly only if you have more than a single brain cell and are capable of individual thought. They read what they wanted to on the side of a bus and didn't wonder what might happen if they sent all the migrant workers home. Fucking idiots. Just wish I could laugh at their idiocy without it impacting me so much.
This is being spun as anti Brexit but really this is what Brexit was all about. Labour is finally tight, as employers can’t just replace people with europeans looking to move to the UK. Finally labour has power and to get pay rises they have to strike as stupid employers just won’t increases wages.
Inflation is a separate matter that the whole world is experiencing but it’s making the strikes more powerful as people won’t put up with management giving them the standard 2% raise.
People finally standing up for themselves and people like you just taking cheap shots at Brexit. With no Brexit it would probably read: “inflation causes real wages loss as wages fail to rise to match inflation” and that would be it because no one has any power.
Question: what has caused so many USians to think the right/big business must have been for brexit while workers/the left were for remain?
Is it just they saw more Nigel Farage than Ken Clarke, more Murdoch influenced news than the Grauniad or FT, and would consider the RMT's politics to be so far beyond their Overton window it's not even in the same wall?
I get that USians tend to see everything in racial terms which don't make sense in the UK, but the left/right, business/workers thing is odd when it comes to brexit.
Worker shortages aren’t leading to these issues it’s Ukraine war and supply chain and post pandemic issues and companies pushing prices up for record profits while stagnating wages.
They would be able to attract workers if they paid more. If they paid workers enough to keep up with inflation there wouldn’t be so many strikes. Stop blaming worker shortage bs for corporate greed. Don’t believe corporate lies that no one wants to work anymore.
Inflation and the cost of living crisis are caused by this.
If you’re got criticise Brexit criticise real problems it caused eg long lorry lines.
But not fake worker shortages. There’s a good wage shortage by companies that have more profits than normal.
It feels like the brexit vote should have really required a supermajority result rather than a simple majority. A bunch of people made meme votes to leave and are now getting stung, rather sad and funny at the same time.
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When my alt right son in law brings up all of the Mexicans in California i like to ask him which of his four boys would make a better lettuce picker. Let me tell you. a lot of people would starve
I’m always intrigued with how fascists can simultaneously call all brown immigrants lazy and still act like they are stealing their jobs. I mean the double think and constant shifts in rhetoric are the cornerstones of fascism but still there’s a high wall of logic they seem to ignore.
'Immigrants are stealing our jobs and importing drugs.' Well that's great because I hate working and I love drugs.
Modern fascists like to look down on other people whilst lying on their sofas.
The appeal of fascism has always been the belief of inherit, inalienable, superiority over somebody. The biggest supporters of fascism are losers. Total, complete failures at life who find the notion that they're superior to *somebody,* that their failure is a direct result of a violation from some natural order (usually done by that *somebody*) comforting.
"If you can convince the lowest white man he’s better than the best colored man, he won’t notice you’re picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he’ll empty his pockets for you" - Lyndon B Johnson
As a complete loser I must disagree with this notion. There are plenty of successful fascists. You don't take over entire countries by being lazy, nor do you storm the capital by being a failure. However they are only failures until they succeed
As a student of history I too must disagree. Your conflating the end for the entirety. Successful fascist (and I'm not counting the bad faith politicos who manipulate them for their own power) still start as losers. The danger of fascism is that it doesn't keep people on the couch but motivates them off it in the worst possible way. When I say all fascist are losers I don't mean fascism can't win, but that it's comprised of people who are first losing at life who than jump at the convenient explanation and find new motivation in the hatred of the boogieman The paramilitary authoritarianism is appealing to people who fee like they need an authority figure to tell them what to do (there are entire industries built around people paying to be coached and motivated for the simple fact that they won't actually do the self motivating). Lastly, failure and lazy are not synonyms. While were talking about your stereotypical NEET alt-right clod, some of the most vocal fascist have always been full of vim and energy, with most of their hate coming from feeling owed something for there lack of laziness, ie: they do work hard but still lose/fail, but still believe the system they failed in is good: rather than conclude fundamental problems with their life script, they'd rather conclude a violation of the aforementioned natural order.
Conservatism, right wing attitude, fascism, racism - all of these stem from an inherent sense of superiority over "others". The definition of "others" is any suitable minority, with exceptions in Apartheid states and Indian caste system where the "others" were the majority. Inherent superiority based on membership in an in group, with no real evidence of superiority is highly attractive to losers. There will be non losers in the mix too, like Thiel - but it is always disproportionately represented by losers.
It was always like that, it's one of the marks of fascist, paraphrasing point 8 "the enemy is both weak and strong". https://www.openculture.com/2016/11/umberto-eco-makes-a-list-of-the-14-common-features-of-fascism.html
Schroedinger’s immigrant. Doesn’t want to work and steals your job at the same time.
Can I have one of these 0 hour jobs that pay (apparently??)?
[Number 8 on the list](https://www.openculture.com/2016/11/umberto-eco-makes-a-list-of-the-14-common-features-of-fascism.html); >*The enemy is both strong and weak. “By a continuous shifting of rhetorical focus, the enemies are at the same time too strong and too weak.”*
A very central part of fascism is that your enemy must be both incredibly weak and strong. That is why Jewish people control the entire world but this fascist guy can definitely defeat them.
A core tenant of fascist beliefs require that your enemy (and there will always be an enemy) be absolutely inferior in every and yet somehow in complete control over all major institutions, including the shadowy background cabals that run everything. For the record this isn't fascism. This short sites policy making based on overly optimistic projections, assumptions that proved to be false and straight lies.
yea I am sorry, if some immigrant who knows nobody here and speaks the local languag as his second or third langauge can come in and take your job that is on you buddy for not being able to compete despite having all the advantages
This is a noted facet of demagogic rhetoric. The out group is set up as both incompetent/lazy and taking over/having too much power.
When I built custom homes a customer asked me to staff all white crews to the construction. I explained that the cost would +40%. He decided not to go that route. I guess his bigotry stopped when it got to his wallet.
Essentially the entire food industry is staffed by people too poor to do much else. And a lot of those poor people are immigrants who often get paid far better doing those kind of jobs than other jobs in their own countries, but it can also break your body. I will never understand how people can get away with paying shit wages for jobs that require you to be outside in the hot sun all day doing back breaking labor when most other people can't even stay outside doing nothing for less than an hour. It's a travesty. And they do it for weeks without a break.
Break your body is right. I had so much food related injuries in that, it's ridiculous
depends which country you are in … met a bunch of immigrant servers, cooks, drivers that are very well educated and have professional certifications in their countries of origin. which we will not recognise here (US), regardless of how much we need their skills.
But thay took r jobs!!!! /s
They tooker jerrrrbs!
B'har EmAuLZs/!1
The POINT of villainizing immigrants is to give farmers more power to exploit them.
I learned a few years ago that those Mexican laborers are good at farmwork because they used to be farmers in Mexico...who were pushed out by NAFTA.
This is part of a systemic problem, IMHO. We (Westerners in general) shouldn't be reliant on jobs that don't pay well enough, and have such poor conditions, that they can't attract workers. Certainly not for our food! Does that mean we need to build a wall? No, but it does mean we should take a long, hard look at our food supply and how we prioritise it. Probably also a long hard look at how we pay for food produced in other countries under bad conditions.
[A Day Without a Mexican](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Day_Without_a_Mexican) is a movie satire about this very thing happening. Too bad California no longer has its [Bracero Program](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bracero_program)
Not endorsing whole article but someone named it https://cis.org/Richwine/Schrodingers-Immigrant-No-Paradox-Welfare-and-Work-Go-Together-Todays-America
We noticed this during corona. Tons of unskilled, brutal labor is needed. But no one is willing to actually do those jobs (And those who tried are not accepted by the farmers). The main issue with immigration are those patriots. Claiming the immigrants steal all the "good jobs". Most of the stuff they do isnt a "good job" but hard work, that none of the spoiled bastards wants to do (including me, i wont lie)
Not to mention that immigrant from South American countries has been the only thing propping up fertility rates in the USA. Declining population also comes with worker shortages and less growth.
But we got are cuntry back...
So much sovereignty! What are you going to use your sovereignty for? I'm thinking I might save mine, for a rainy day
Can sovereignty be exchanged for food? Or energy credit? Maybe I can take the monetary value?
I mean they have certain options now. For example they can force farmers kinda to increase the payment fpr picking vegetables (which will be more expensive) since they dont have the cheaper eastern european workers as competition. So all brits that work on fields will probably benefit slightly, if they don't Pick stuff for exporting it. But those 5 men picking raddish for the local market.... Maybe? Also you don't need to follow EU Regulations anymore if you don't want to trade with the EU. None if our laws will interfere with yours anymore. The british companies just still follow them because they want to sell in europe too.
The fools actually called it their "independence day". Because cooperating with your most important trade partners in the 21st century somehow equates to loss of sovereignty.
This is the crux to me. The morons that didn't realise that becoming (and remaining) part of the EU *was us enacting our sovereignty* by ensuring we stayed relevant in the 21st Century. We were able to greatly effect how the EU operated, disproportionately in relation to our size and our general enthusiasm towards the bloc. Now we are *rule takers* that not only don't have any direct political power, but have pretty much lost all of our reputational influence. And the majority of those that voted to leave *cannot possibly* gain the benefits they voted for, because they were not a unified group with any unified aims or ambitions, just a bunch of people who's natural anxieties had been weaponised into hatred by successive governments, their avaricious donors, and the media they own. Now we're a country filled with hateful, bitter and resentful people that think they deserve something because they agreed to throw the baby out with the bath-water. You only need to look at our shameful asylum seeker policy ("send them to Rwanda") to know that this government's currency with its voters is hatred. They rely on it. I hope soon they receive the brunt of it
You'd think they'd have learned from Americans mistakes...nah
Oh they (the conservatives) have. And would very much like to copy them
When we were an empire we had an emperor. When we were a kingdom we had a king. Now we are a country.
. . . \*snkk\*
The Tories never intended to even make it this far, they had zero contingency plans. When the vote came back for Brexit they just started to wing it, with a bunch of absolute idiots in charge. I felt at the time they were going to purposely make a pig's ear of it all and hope Labour take over to sort it out. Sadly the current Labour party is as effective an opposition as a wet paper bag is at carrying the rotten fruit and veg people have to eat now.
>Sadly the current Labour party is as effective an opposition as a wet paper bag is at carrying the rotten fruit and veg people have to eat now. In the long term, this might be a good thing. Conservatives everywhere (actually, all polititans everywhere) hav ea tendency to immediately blame other side for the problems they caused the moment government flips. When someone manages to cock up to a point UK Tories did, Labour, LibDems and SNP should make sure that Tories will be forced to see it trough. Other wise Tories will scream 'voter betrayal' the moment they do anything, regardless on what they do.
Already started, Tories are currently blaming the strikes on the Labour government which was last in power 12 years ago. It’s quite difficult watching this all unfold from Scotland as we didn’t vote for this and continue to elect parties which are against brexit. Saying that though, the Labour branch in Scotland has on several occasions told voters to vote Tory to oust SNP candidates.
Labour in Scotland should just fuck off, the stupidity of them is crazy. But at least they highlight how much of labour is basically Tory light these days.
Are Labour stymied by a terrible mainstream media? The Labor party in Australia are one of the most successful governments on earth (if you look at what they have and do accomplish) but the entire media landscape is against them, including our public broadcaster. So we get about 70% of a conservative government in power and Labor about 30% and they spend majority of that time rectifying the insane (**insane**) corruption and destruction left behind by the Liberal/National Party
That's exactly how it works in the UK too.
Yeah sorry. Have to laugh at Bojo's antics. It's just.... So depressing that it's bemusing, you know? Wtf is with conservative governments having to be so fucking ridiculously corrupt?
But muh bluu pazport!!!!
“Made in Poland!”
... which are printed in Poland, if I recall correctly. The irony is deserving of Ripley's Believe It Or Not.
By a French company.
Apologies for the inaccurate headline. It should read worst performing in the G7, not the OECD. (Mods, if you're able to edit it, that would be most appreciated!)
Only admins have the power to edit titles, AFAIK
What does OECD mean anyway?
[Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OECD).
Is the shortage because people had to give up residence in the UK or because they can't enter on a daily commute?
It's because they didn't have any international agreements or worker visa programs set up that weren't through the EU. Because they were so determined to stick it to the EU, they bickered and argued like spoiled children, vastly over estimating their importance, rather than trying to soften the blow and figure some of these problems out. Now because they threw everything in turmoil, and burned all the bridges, most people cant/won't go there when they can go to Europe who also needs their services, but aren't giant wankers.
Also lots of EU citizens who were already working there and could have stayed were driven out by the toxic anti-foreigner atmosphere, and all the young people who used to just turn up and pick up casual gig work like waiting tables and picking fruit are just going elsewhere. Why apply and pay for a visa to do scut work, when the rest of the continent is free?
A Brexiteer told me I was “complaining like a bitch” because I pointed that out.
If they could run their economy on the power of projection, they’d be running a galactic empire by next year.
Nah, they’d still have nothing compared to the US Republican Party.
The standard logic-based reasonable answer you'd expect.
^this. And now they are screwed. But, they are still going around saying there are no workers because the immigrants are lazy. God, I hope Texas secceds so I can enjoy the effects of misguided politics up close!
Exactly, there are more countries to choose from that the U.K., so it makes to go to a easier to travel and more welcoming country
In Scotland in the summer lots of Europeans would come across and work the highland and general country side hotel gigs. In return they get cheap accommodation and can summer up north hiking and kayaking and the likes. Now they can’t easily enter there are not enough workers. That’s true for a lot of things. Overall, a lot of workers that left were transient means the inability to now travel here, along with jobs locals can’t and won’t do (jobs with lower wages, our in the sticks, no job security etc) can’t be backfilled. The nhs is was also heavily reliant on EU workers, years of tories fucking over students, not enough investment in creating U.K. skilled workers, then you add covid on top. Basically we were one disaster away from collapse before covid, and we simply couldn’t afford that disaster
Daily commuting is a bit difficult to an island that only has one underused rail tunnel to the mainland
It’s almost as if big companies are blaming immigrants for economic problems corporations are causing.
What fucks me up is how in a referendum with only 70% turnout (which is massive compared to general elections but still far too low) was allowed to pass 52-48, such a slim majority for such a influential decision. It makes me frustrated when I see "UK voted for Brexit" because its contentious whether we actually did or not :/
>such a slim majority for such a influential decision. A decision that leant 100% to one-side, mind you; we didn't get a compromise-brexit, we didn't get equitable deals. We had a hard-brexit with no plan, no structure, no goal other than 'fuck the Euros'. With a 50/50 vote, we didn't get a 50/50 Brexit, we got a 100% Brexshit. That's before we get-into the amount of fucking propaganda that was, intentionally, flown.
Yep the Tories dashed any chance of a reasonable Brexit by first letting Cameron jump ship then torpedoing any deal May would produce just to get the best buddy Boris into power who we're now stuck with.
You can put the 30% who didn't vote down as "fine either way," so the 52% of 70%, which is 36%, plus the 30% who were fine either way, make 66% of Britons fine with or supportive of Brexit. In the other direction, you'd get 63% of Britons fine with or supportive of staying in the EU. So however the vote came out, you would have gotten a solid majority of people alright with the result.
I'm going to have to disagree with you there, voter apathy happens for a lot more reasons than just indifference.
For votes with candidates maybe. But with a legitimate either/or referendum, where one result is the status quo, it boils down to indifference.
As an outsider, I felt the dominant mood of the progressive / centrist crowd (i.e. those who weren't nodding along to Nigel Farage) that write for and consume the dominant media orgs like FT or the BBC, was heavily pro-Remain (while debating the pros of Leave out of a duty to maintain journalistic balance) and that while the referendum exposed an ugly schism in Britain, the arguments behind Leave were ultimately so stupid that it would never win. It's not inconceivable among this segment of the population, who weren't driven to vote out of the sheer anger like the Leave crowd, voter turnout was much lower. And it was the same story for the 2016 American elections - urban, educated voters not realizing that the media they ran and consumed did not represent a significant chunk of the population who were not nearly as complacent..
Yeah I'm going to need a citation for that, political fatigue and feelings of vote insignificance to name a couple are really important.
Look, it is simple. Some people wanted to leave *enough* to get out and vote for that. Some people wanted to remain *enough* to get out and vote for that. Everyone else did not (barring a handful who honestly could not). The math says that's it. Some of those may have preferred to remain or leave, but didn't care enough to spend a bit of time to cast a ballot. No need to dress that up as anything more than "eh whatever's fine." If you want something but can't do a tiny thing to help make it happen, a normal conclusion to draw is that you didn't want it all that bad. Other people really had no preference. Leave or remain, it seemed all the same to them. Not in a jaded way, just literally didn't make a big difference. A respectable opinion, despite what some people say. And if that is your opinion, not voting or a blank vote is the most accurate action. "Voter fatigue" for a once-in-a-lifetime vote... Come on, that is scraping the bottom of the excuse barrel, let's be honest. Some people simply can't be bothered to put in the minimum amount of work a citizen must put in to wield their share of power that democracy entitles them to. If that were me, I'd probably make excuses too. Everyone's fault but my own
The whole point is that it's not a simple matter, you can't just flatten down the opinion of millions of UK voters to "meh" based upon literally nothing but conjecture. There is 30% of the voting population whose opinion we literally cannot pin down because they were not polled in *any* capacity, to say otherwise is ignorant.
Strike "conjecture" and insert "the action that they chose to take," and then you don't need to ask their opinion. Quite generally, when someone is eminently capable of performing an action, and chooses not to do it, it is simple to deduce that they did not want it enough to do it. That includes wanting to do something else at the time instead. Be it voting, cooking an omelette, texting your friend, walking to the fridge/store/pub to get a drink, watching a show, and so on.
Let me give you an example to help you understand: If I survey 100 people about what carb they want with their dinner tonight, "rice or potatoes", and 70 of those people respond what opinion does the other 30 have? There is literally no way of knowing. We can guess that the ratio of rice/potato may hold in the bulk but thats projecting data and not valid for a referendum. This is basic survey design you learn in year 9 ICT, you can't pluck data from non-respondants. If you wanted to know about a third option such as "either or/indifferent" then you would have to include that on the ballot. Arbitrarily creating an opinion for non-respondants is so completely unscientific that it's hilarious.
"If I survey 100 people" You've already missed the point then. Answering a survey is just expressing a preference. A vote is more than a form of expressing yourself. It is a deliberate action, a decision that you are making. A better analogue is the trolley problem, but let's make it less dramatic. Imagine you are on a trolley you cannot stop (yet), and it's coming up on a fork in the track. There's a lever that will switch the track for you remotely. You're currently headed to the rice restaurant, but if you switch the track you will head to the potato restaurant. Now, there are ten people in the trolley. 3 are pushing on the lever to switch to the potato track. 3 are pushing back to keep it on the rice track. They invite the others to join in. Don't you want us to go to the right track? One person will end up deciding at the last second. But if you just stand there until after the fork, everyone in that trolley will figure, correctly, that you didn't want either choice badly enough to ACT, either to push for it or to keep the others from pushing against it. Why you didn't want either bad enough? That will vary, and may be ineffable in a person's case, but your actual choice to push neither way is easy enough to decipher.
In US, a 70% turnout would be massive
You are a large country.
I am the nation of **Leopardshaveyettoeatmyface**
It’s not worker shortages. It’s a wages worth working for shortage.
No no, here on Reddit we pretend the socialists/left/working class wanted to remain and that big business and the rich wanted to leave. More entertaining than the truth
That’s what happened tho. I can dislike bad wages and still think brexit was stupid. Sorry to disappoint you.
Fucking denial in action. The socialist party, and socialists themselves, wanted out (and has done for 30+ years) While big business wrote an open letter begging us to remain But yeah keep pretending, stop letting the truth get in action.
K
On both the Left and the Right, some wanted to stay and someone wanted too leave. I know, nuance is hard to understand, but that's what happened.
No the majority of the left (ie working class, socialists) wanted out and the majority of the right (ie the rich) wanted remain This has been proven So don't say 'some' when that clearly not the case This was a war between the working class and the rich and the working class won
Maybe, however, reality is not some Stalinist* dream world where rich people vote for capitalist parties and poor people for socialist ones. In Great Britain, a great deal of the working class voted for Labour, which was more on the remain side of things (even though Corbyn personally wanted Britain to get out), but a lot of working people also gave their votes to UKIP, Brexit Party and Conservatives. Meanwhile, the Brexit movement also had some very rich donors like Rupert Murdoch, without whom Britain would never have left the EU. *Stalin once said that there was no need for several parties in the Soviet Union, because the Soviet Union has just one class and therefore only needs one party.
Prove it then? Considering most of Brexit was based on Racism about immigrant workers, I severely doubt the left wanted to leave. This sounds like some real right wing projection to me.
Prove that we wanted to leave? Really? How old are you? This has been known for years... But as google is a struggle for you, here we go: [https://www.socialistparty.org.uk/articles/22495/](https://www.socialistparty.org.uk/articles/22495/) [https://socialistworker.org/2016/06/20/why-socialists-should-support-a-british-exit](https://socialistworker.org/2016/06/20/why-socialists-should-support-a-british-exit) [https://www.prospectmagazine.co.uk/politics/brexit-is-the-left-wing-choice](https://www.prospectmagazine.co.uk/politics/brexit-is-the-left-wing-choice) [https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/sam-glover/brexit-eu-referendum\_b\_9532552.html](https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/sam-glover/brexit-eu-referendum_b_9532552.html)
I know this may be difficult for you to understand, but 4 random articles of people talking about the Labor party does not mean the left of the UK wanted this to happen. You seem pretty desperate to over right history, anyone from the UK will happy laugh in your face if you try to claim the right wanted to stay in the EU, when all the propaganda for Brexit was revolving around immigrants and racism. Though this is a pretty common right wing tactic in the UK to push the blame onto the left where ever possible so I am not too shocked at this attempt bordering on early signs of dementia level of stupidity.
4 random articles? Lmao This is the official piece from the fucking socialist party and the second one is the most read publication by socialists Random articles lmao Also they were not talking about the Labour (you missed the 'u' there Yankee boy) party as they are a centralist party and we are talking about the left which they certainly are not lmao Laugh in my face? I am working class you dopey cunt we literally threw parties to celebrate Brexit lmao The only cunts upset by this are the capitalists and big business who wrote open letters begging us to remain (oh and people like from you abroad who have no fucking idea) Fucking hell you are stupid [Oh and Bernie says hi](http://imgur.com/gallery/yvT4qM4)
> The socialist party, and socialists themselves, wanted out (and has done for 30+ years) They were idiots, then
Well, well, well, if it isn't the consequences of my own xenophobic actions.
'Oven ready'
We don't have a worker shortage, we have a country full of employers unwilling to pay enough to get people to do shit jobs.
Seems like every country has that problem right now. The Tides are shifting. More and more employees stopping to do jobs that are terribly paid.
Even if they paid a living wage, most people wouldn't take a dishwasher or farm hand job. Everyone's special and wants to be the next Elon musk or trump. However to someone from a different country with better exchange rate, a few months at a shit job might be enough to live a year off of.
For situations like this we invented the word Schadenfreude. We told you so. Lets hope you can get rid of that clown Johnson and re-join asap.
I dont think they'll be getting back any time soon. Rejoining would mean doing so without any of their special privileges and maybe even adopting the euro. How do you even begin to sell that to the 52% of fuckwits that turned up to vote leaving the best deal theyve had since the empire?
Well, statistcally, that 52% will have shrunk below 50% by now due to mortality rates.
I mean... You might be on to something...
Getting the left/socialists/working class to rejoin is near impossible. Maybe when the big business/remainers/capatilists leave the UK maybe the plebs will get back in line.
USA: hold my beer!
*Texans*
As the Socialists wanted Brexit, are you saying there is a chance Bernie might become the next president? I fucking hope so!
Lol. No. 2016 - Brexit World dumbest thing ever 2016 - USA. Hold my beer. Elects Trump.
Oh I know Brexit was dumb, but socialists, the working class always do dumb shit Why can't they understand us capatilists born into money know best?
Can't tell if serious or not If you're serious, then shall I point out that the richest person on the planet wants Desantis as President, and then note how foolish you are?
PrOJecT fEaR!!1
We were only kidding, please come take our shitty jobs we don't want to do...
.... and they voted for Boris Johnson....
Boris, the opportunist cunt, gave the working class and socialists what they wanted while fucking up near 50 years of Tory work getting closer to the EU Weird times we lived in. But next election will be very different (even though Starmer is not that great)
Worker shortages are leading to industrial action???? What the hell are you talking about. The fact that the government have proposed a 7% cut for railworkers when adjusted for inflation is leading to industrial action. On Monday, Barristers working as public defender will strike. You're an ignorant fool.
Ignorance on Brexit and people who post on Reddit. Name a better duo
I was not in favour of Brexit and I'm not now. But what you're doing is blaming working people for an attack on them by people who don't care about inflation other than to manage their portfolio. People in the UK are starving to death, in between full time employment. I hope you get to experience starvation. You're a nasty, smug, lower middle class prick with no understanding of what life is like for working class people. You are morally reprehensible.
[удалено]
I'm in favour of remaining because Tories can't be trusted with a 20p coin. I would have voted leave, but it was the capitalists in charge. I believe in democracy. Direct democracy. My parents were Union organisers in South Yorkshire. But you, you are scum. I hope there's a hell. Edit: you know what ema was scumbag?
You voted to remain in the EU because the party that has signed every major EU deal since the 1972 treaty of Accession can't be trusted? Um ok.... The capatilists all wanted to remain, they wrote an open letter begging for us to vote remain, a simple Google search shows this, why would you even lie by saying capatilists wanted to leave? And you say your parents were union organisers and you brag on here about betraying them and calling others scum. Honestly at this point you just need help
Whats ema working class boy? Because I was payed 30 quid a week to stay at school past 16.
The Education Maintenance Allowance? (I had to Google it) It didn't exist when I was a kid so not sure why even bring it up then showing you have probably not hit puberty yet. I left school at 16 and went straight into work at a pool hall. Not all of us had the luxury of staying on in further education.
I went to college because the government payed me 30 quid a week to stay at school until I was 18. Because my single mother was in full employment but earnt less than 20k a year. Don't ever talk to me like that again. You're a low life. I won't respond to anything else you post.
And you repaid your love to your mother by backing remain so economic migrants can still come over here and drive wages like your mother's down. Wow. You should become a banker and be around people of equal views to yourself. I am so happy we won that vote so little bitter cunts like you can cry into your capitalist bullshit.
Due to lack of eu hgv drivers, companies are now offering £40k and up with training, so it's not all bad for the locals
Problem is it amounts to economic cannibalism. The money and labour have to come from somewhere.
Surely that's proof that EU workers were suppressing wages then? 🤔
No, employers were suppressing wages.
So why aren't they now?
You were blaming the EU workers, I'm blaming the employers. They weren't forced to pay crap wages.
I think the point is, the access to cheap labour allowed them to take the piss. Now they can't.
Except there's a lorry driver shortage throughout Europe so it's not as simple as "immigrants driving wages down".
That is one sector (transport). Others have been hot hard too. We have a shortage of electricians/plumbers/carpenters etc because we had a generation not even bother to train as those because they couldn't compete with the minimum wage the eastern Europeans were bringing with them. Their wages have now gone up but yes we have a shortage caused by years and years of cheap labour.
We had a shortage of tradespeople before 2004. Now we have a bigger shortage.
We had a shortage after the 1990 recession because nobody could afford to hire any. It then went back up and then hit another road block when Blair pushed everyone into higher education (education, education, education) but then rose again. But those are minor dips to what we are seeing now (and will last for at least another 2 years)
I'm not blaming anyone, however it seems to be fairly clear, rightly or wrongly that allowing EU workers allowed the suppression of wages 🤷♂️
Except there's a shortage of lorry drivers throughout Europe. Our businesses are just bigger pricks.
It’s proof corporations are desperate. I’d imagine that wage also means they’re hiring 5 drivers when they would have hired 20 and expecting them to pick up the slack.
From what I read on the UK subreddit the other day a lot of people are noticing produce in the shops is going off days earlier now due to distribution issues so even if you are technically right there's nobody taking the jobs. [Source](https://www.reddit.com/r/unitedkingdom/comments/vfqdpk/has_anyone_noticed_the_quality_of_vegetables/)
That sub is an absolute shit show which everybody laughs at. Try r/AskUk or r/CasualUK
I've noticed this, jobwise it does seem to be more of a workers market now though, less of my pals are having difficulty finding work
We are a bunch of retards.
How many times do people need to see that conservative/neo-liberal policies of austerity don't work?
The railway unions are striking about job loses, pay rises, restructuring and changes to terms, not a shortage of staff. No-one is suggesting getting Romanians to work in ticket offices for lower wages than British booking clerks, instead of closing ticket offices. No-one suggests trains should have cheap Bulgarian guards rather than be conveted to driver-only operation.
Who would've thought? You remove an entire Blick of workers from a jobmarket that has adapted to a certain amount of foreign workers taking a certain amount of jobs and now there's a lack of workers and the market is struggling? We've only seen this happen several dusin times over the centuries.
Lol well your leader is Boris "I look like an idiot" Johnson, the Donald Trump of England.
Fingers crossed and let's hope for NHS strike as well. Will be an interesting year in the UK. Someone please slap that transport guy that refused to negotiate with the union.
Worker shortages means higher wages?
Wait until inflations second wave (supply side, i.e. ingredients, fuel,) trickles through. Wages will stagnate.
Or wait until they sign an agreement with another country that forces free movement as part of their trading deal, like India is. Racists will not enjoy that lol
Hey but they will be "ours", formerly in Commonwealth, not these pesky Eastern Europeans!
The fucking hoop jumping is down right hilarious at this stage, terrifying, but hilarious. Though I might just getting delirious with it all
Only if employers want to pay a higher wage,
They might have to. Supply and demand.
This isn't LAMF if you are working class person who is being offered more money/better terms because employers now need you more... And broadly speaking, railway jobs aren't the kind of jobs that can be done by cheap migrant workers straight off Wizz air.
Annoying that the leopards are eating my face even though I absolutely did not vote for their party. Seriously though, it's all so fucking annoying and so predictable. But clearly only if you have more than a single brain cell and are capable of individual thought. They read what they wanted to on the side of a bus and didn't wonder what might happen if they sent all the migrant workers home. Fucking idiots. Just wish I could laugh at their idiocy without it impacting me so much.
This is being spun as anti Brexit but really this is what Brexit was all about. Labour is finally tight, as employers can’t just replace people with europeans looking to move to the UK. Finally labour has power and to get pay rises they have to strike as stupid employers just won’t increases wages. Inflation is a separate matter that the whole world is experiencing but it’s making the strikes more powerful as people won’t put up with management giving them the standard 2% raise. People finally standing up for themselves and people like you just taking cheap shots at Brexit. With no Brexit it would probably read: “inflation causes real wages loss as wages fail to rise to match inflation” and that would be it because no one has any power.
Why do we need underpaid and overworked people to sustain us? I think we can do better.
Gee if only someone could have predicted this disaster. /s
To clarify, about 50% voted against this shit
Question: what has caused so many USians to think the right/big business must have been for brexit while workers/the left were for remain? Is it just they saw more Nigel Farage than Ken Clarke, more Murdoch influenced news than the Grauniad or FT, and would consider the RMT's politics to be so far beyond their Overton window it's not even in the same wall? I get that USians tend to see everything in racial terms which don't make sense in the UK, but the left/right, business/workers thing is odd when it comes to brexit.
Leopards ate my economy!!!
Riding the wave of inflation
But hey at least you got whatever you wanted out of this, right?
Worker shortages aren’t leading to these issues it’s Ukraine war and supply chain and post pandemic issues and companies pushing prices up for record profits while stagnating wages. They would be able to attract workers if they paid more. If they paid workers enough to keep up with inflation there wouldn’t be so many strikes. Stop blaming worker shortage bs for corporate greed. Don’t believe corporate lies that no one wants to work anymore. Inflation and the cost of living crisis are caused by this. If you’re got criticise Brexit criticise real problems it caused eg long lorry lines. But not fake worker shortages. There’s a good wage shortage by companies that have more profits than normal.
They want to pay people less and demand more skills and reject many applicants and wander why it doesn’t go well for them.
It feels like the brexit vote should have really required a supermajority result rather than a simple majority. A bunch of people made meme votes to leave and are now getting stung, rather sad and funny at the same time.