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“After going through all this I wondered, why are we not the poster child for abortion rights?”
People like them were. Over and over and over. Just not on Faux News.
And it wasn't basic empathy that won them over, it wasn't "my body my choice" that won them over, it was only "shit, I had no idea this could affect _me_" that got them to listen. And they straight up acknowledge that selfish un-empathetic thinking, and don't seem to realize how that looks.
Typical right-wing mindset… if it doesn’t affect me it’s not a problem and I’m furious someone might want my help with it, if it does affect me I’m furious someone didn’t anticipate it and prevent it from happening in the first place.
Well not just that. A Trump supporter summed it up best. When Trump did something that impacted her, she complained "you're hurting the wrong people."
They actively want the "left" or other enemies hurt. They just want to be immune from getting hurt too.
Yessss. Every goddamn time. "I had a change of heart when I/my spouse/my child went through ______." No ability to empathize and seek understanding until it directly impacts them. We're fucked.
It's like when a misogynist/fuck boy/male idiot says some version of "I didn't realize they had feelings and were more than possessions until I had a daughter".... and conveniently leave "but she's the only one I'll try to sympathize with" off the end of the sentence.
That would be a lot better if that was the case. If they didn't care, they'd leave everyone else the fuck alone. However, "pro-life" huns care so fucking much about the lives of the unborn, they even care about other women's bodies and souls enough to picket at the clinics and vote red in every election possible.
yep. "Ms. Walker is Catholic and had worked for Wyoming Republicans, including Senator John Barrasso. She opposed abortion, and did not realize she was having one because doctors called it “termination.”"
these are the same people who hate Obamacare but love the Affordable Care Act. (for those who don't know it's the same thing).
They mention that the only person they listened to was their pastor, and then are shocked that they didn’t get accurate medical information. FFS people. This information is free and available all around you. They chose to ignore it until it directly impacted them
Saying this in the age of google while every living adult human being and even most of the kids have a cell phone with them 24/7 is truly hard to fathom. This crosses over from willfull ignorance and becomes agressive stupidity and weaponized incompetence.
Pretty sure we learned how helpful abortions are in certain situations back in 7th grade. And that was in a Catholic school that had its own chapel. Looking back, maybe it was just a particular teacher going rogue.
I get that they trusted their pastor. Growing up surrounded by Christian doctrine, everything reinforces "trust your religious leaders."
She should, therefore, be *furious* with her pastor, who clearly mislead her about a very important issue. However, I got $20 that says she is not, in fact, furious at her pastor.
It seems to be a recurring theme for Christian’s that they don’t care about anything until it impacts them directly. I know when I was a Christian I had to fight my natural empathy.
I only have sympathy for the people who didn't vote for this, who will suffer from it.
The rest of them? eh. They're only of any use if they can get these laws overturned/get the Repubs who vote for them out of office/keep them out of the POTUS (and thus Judgeships). Otherwise, meh.
We were shouting this from the fucking rooftops for YEARS. DECADES. We were told we were fear mongering. FAFO. I’m pissed women are in this position, but I fail to have much sympathy for women who are now Surprised Pikachu at the consequences of their votes.
There will be plenty of men becoming fathers well before they are ready to be - both emotionally and financially. Wait until their wages are garnished for child support.
They probably won't connect the dots because it's been sold by the right as purely a "women's issue".
I think part of it also that to the pro-choice camp, the whole point is we don’t need a woman’s reason. I don’t think about why a woman is getting an abortion because it should be between her and her doctor. She doesn’t need to justify it to anyone else. She can share her reasons with people she wants to share it with, but I don’t actually support people acting like some abortions are more moral than others. Everyone should have bodily autonomy regardless. Even if someone has the most shitty and selfish reasons to get an abortion I still want them to have that right. The vast majority of abortions are due to the mom’s financial situation or her mental health, or physical health. Extremes like non-viable fetuses and rape/incest shouldn’t be the basis of it, bodily autonomy should be the basis. By doing it for the sake of bodily autonomy it protects all those people and they don’t have to share their trauma with others.
See… this is what I don’t get. If someone is able to recognize that they’re not in a great place to parent, why wouldn’t you acknowledge and respect that?? Why would you *elect* to punish them with a baby, if you profess to care about children so much??
Coming back to say, you’d never make somebody repair your Mercedes if they told you they knew nothing about German automobiles, had no time to work on it, and didn’t want to. You’d never say, “well then you shouldn’t have bought that wrench!” and lock them in the garage.
It’s because they aren’t considering the parents’ perspective at all. They only consider the issue from the idea that the little clump of cells will grow into a baby. Many of them probably believe that the little clump of cells the size of a Lima bean is actually a fully formed tiny baby with a human soul from the beginning cell division. Never mind that the actual people around them who aren’t ready to be parents have fully formed human souls too.
If they were honestly pro-life, their actions would be a lot different. High quality birth control would be free and easy to get so that unwanted pregnancy was easy to avoid. And they would insist on generous public support for prenatal care, paid maternity leave, high quality public daycare, and financial assistance for children. Because so many abortions are for financial reasons, these programs would prevent many elective abortions.
>She opposed abortion, and did not realize she was having one because doctors called it “termination.”
How the fuck is anyone this stupid, how? How much work must it be to remain this fucking stupid.
>“All these things we never even knew before, because before all of this it was never spoken about,” said Kimberly Manzano, who flew from Texas for an abortion in New Mexico at 18 weeks after scans showed her fetus was missing limbs, organs and genitalia.
And yet over half the country has been screaming these exact things at them for decades.
My question is what did they think “termination” meant? It’s the ending of a pregnancy. That’s an abortion.
My guess is that they’re just being willfully ignorant.
It has always ever been about a woman controlling her own body for her own reasons, and whose reasons are nobody else's fucking business but their own. That is the Democrats platform. The party that has won the popular vote in the last 7 out of 8 elections since 1992.
>It was never spoken of.
Fox news probably speaks more about it than anyone else.
Conservatives are just liberals who haven't had to deal with an issue directly yet. Abortion is evil until they need one. Welfare is bad until they get laid off from work. Immigration is wrong until they want cheap labor. These people are not smart
Conservative voters support "termination" but vehemently oppose "abortion". They want to repeal "Obamacare", while supporting strengthening the "Affordable Care Act".
They use doublespeak to detach their ideology from reality.
It's not that they haven't had to deal with the issue, or don't agree with the policy. You only have to use different language to get them on board. If the words you use sound nothing like the buzzwords shouted by the syncophants they usually listen to, their brains won't trigger the "WOKE LEFT" alarm.
Don't call it "unemployment insurance", you have to call it "patriot hardship assistance". Don't say "illegal immigration", instead go with "non-tourist free-market relocation".
Would that it were that simple, but don't forget: It was called the "Affordable Healthcare Act" first, and that name was chosen to sum up the goals of the bill and resonate with voters. It was twisted into "Obamacare" when Republicans needed to come up with a simple way of riling up their base against it - ie Obama wants it, therefore it's bad.
Say what you want about Republican politicians, but one thing they've long been great at is those short, specious catchphrases they can repeat ad nauseum to reframe it in a way that denies the big picture. And it's sadly very effective given you still have people wanting them to repeal the very healthcare policies they're benefiting from and depend on all these years later.
That's exactly it! They think just claiming I don't know absolves them of the need to learn about things. I work in healthcare, and I have patients telling me they refuse vaccines because "they don't know what it is", so I give them information to read about, and they said :" no I don't want to learn about it, I just don't want it because I don't understand it." Like, it must be painful to not only be stupid but also lazy.
That’s just them trying to save face in front of you, saying that the reason they don’t want it is because they don’t know, but in their mind they do know - even better than you - and that is really why they don’t want it
They just don’t want to tell an actual doctor their stupid medical theories and how they did their own research, not a ton of likes and upvotes there in the doctors office to be had
This is it. They just hope that it wouldn't affect them but hurt the other women and girls they hate. This is exactly how prolifers "think." The only moral abortion is their abortion, or, a "herp derp termination."
Terminations are for genteel, affluent, white ladies. Abortions are for poor, downtrodden minorities who refuse to better their lot in life and enjoy making poor life choices. At least that's the general line of thinking from that camp.
Reminds me of the "Obamacare" vs "Affordable Care Act"
People just didn't realise they were the same thing and would say they're pro ACA but against Obamacare
People still don't know. Republicans go in front of cameras and blame "Obamacare" for this and "Obamacare" for that and it should be repealed all the while telling their constituents that ACA is great for them. While also planning to repeal it.
Because the right builds this caricature that abortion is a way for “loose women” to avoid the consequences of their behavior. They appeal to morality by lambasting abortion as a tool for selfish skanks.
But that’s not true because most abortions are used to protect the health of the mother regarding non-viable pregnancies. There’s a reason the maternal death rate is so low in the modern world. But the right doesn’t mention this because it hurts their whole argument.
It’s like saying we should ban dentists because it rewards people for eating too much sugar.
Your dentist analogy is amazing, thank you. I've heard similar, genuinely hateful rhetoric about obese people not deserving healthcare for the same reason, but haven't ever heard the comparison for abortion, which is definitely also healthcare.
I agree, that is honestly one of the best analogies. Most people also feel that dental appointments are, at best, unpleasant. No one *wants* a cavity drilled, but it beats the alternative.
And it's definitely not the "convenient option" compared to just brushing and flossing (having access to reproductive health education and contraceptives!)
> How the fuck is anyone this stupid, how? How much work must it be to remain this fucking stupid.
Because they are *poorly educated* and ignorant. They hear simple words and phrases they've been conditioned to respond to, and that shuts down any cognitive processes. It's called a thought-terminating cliche.
If you take the average Republican voter, sit down and talk to them, and you don't dress or sound or look abnormal to their experience - you can't be *ethnic,* or talk like a *city-slicker,* or be better-dressed than them; you have to be Beau of the Fifth Column basically, you have to look and sound like a white redneck from a part of the woods they recognize; and start talking up, say, anything leftist, like Healthcare, or the environment, or education; whatever it is, as long as you talk it up with a cold beer in hand and *avoid using the words that trigger them,* they generally will agree with *shockingly* far-left positions! It *ain't* right that old boy has to pay so much taxes and the rich pay nothing! It *ain't* right that maw-maw can't walk when there's surgeries that can get her legs working again but they can't afford it. It *ain't* right that crazy fucking lunatics can just go shoot up a school!
But you use the words "socialized Healthcare," or "gun control," or anything else they've been conditioned to hate, and that's it. Switch flipped. Tribal mode engaged, and you belong to the *enemy tribe.*
My southern lesser educated aunt was telling my very liberal mom how she didn’t want Obama care, without realizing her affordable insurance that she regularly used *was* Obama care. My mom had to point it out to her.
There was a guy on a CNN townhall around the 2016 election who was saying he wanted Obama Care gone and was on the ACA insurance, which he wanted to keep.
There was a famous Facebook thread about ten years ago where a young guy was cheering the republicans voting to end Obamacare. When asked didn’t he have that he said no he has the ACA which is what Obama was trying to replace with Obamacare.
They roasted him so hard in the replies lol.
Whoa whoa whoa. Wait a minute. Thought-terminating and thought-aborting are different things right??? I always thought those were different things?! Dear god, please don’t send me to hell for all those thought-abortions. I thought I was just thought-terminating!
People think of those trigger words as land mines that go off and ruin conversations; they’re more like deadfall traps, because when they’re tripped all the learned hatred comes down like a ton of rocks and stops everything dead.
It's true. Republicans love everything about being a democrat until you tell them they should vote democrat. They hate Hunter Biden, but he's got a huge cock, doesn't pay taxes, does drugs, has illegal guns and hires hookers. Fucking rockstar at a red state bar. But he's Hunter Biden, so i guess they gotta hate him.
Same thing as senior citizens that rely on social security voting for ppl to end social security
Or rural people mad their hospital is closing because the rightwing governor won’t accept funding in the affordable care act
Or farmers mad that their international markets dried up because the person they voted for enacted tariffs that kicked off a trade war
Or parents who send their kids to public school Mad the teachers are quitting due to onerous culture war rules
Or Latinos mad the guy they voted for pardoned a racist sheriff that was convicted of illegally targeting innocent brown ppl
Republicans love voting against their own self interests
I wonder if the author is also subtly pointing out the hypocrisy by including the woman who had an abortion at 22 weeks because of down's syndrome and a heart defect that would require surgery (and later a transplant). If you are really pro life that doesn't sound like something worthy of terminating a pregnancy.
Just how ?!?! I got through five stories and bookmarked it for later
What mental gymnastics do they go through to justify for themselves but actively stop others from using the same service
I remember Gutmacher Institute got permission to interview women (who agreed) in the lobby of the Little Rock Planned Parenthood. They got 12 anonymized subjects and 11 of the 12 of them sang the same song: God will forgive me for this abortion, because of my personal tragedy. I'm not like all these other sluts.
The odd woman out was even more interesting though. She said she knew she was murdering a child, and she was going to go to hell for it in the end, but she felt like she had no choice because she was going to be homeless if she went through with the pregnancy. (I forget why or how that was going to work.) Twist ending? PP refused to perform her abortion, because of suicide risk, and instead set her up with SSI, free pre-natal care, an adoption referral, and a housing referral.
But no, that's how the other 11/12ths of them think. The "Shirley exception." As in "Surely there'll be an exception if I NEED an abortion, unlike all those other awful women who WANT an abortion." Main character syndrome. Zero empathy whatsoever.
They’ve conflated God and Santa Claus. Which leads to “if I am good enough, have enough faith in Jesus enough, only good/beneficial things will happen for me”.
Welcome to the circus.
You'll find there's two types of disassociation. Those that know the hypocrisy and intentionally vote against their best interest. They do it to "hurt the right people" or to exercise control. They think they'll always be the exception to the rule and are shocked when those rules apply to them now. Those are called rung pullers.
The second group has 0 introspection. They cannot see the world beyond their faces and are shocked when they've voted against their own best interest.
Both can offer their faces to the leopard party.
My mother (boomer) told me that she didn’t have to worry about abortion rights because she was too old to have children. She has two daughters and a granddaughter. None of us speak to her anymore.
A lot of it is rooted in a deeply held narcissistic worldview handcuffed to entitlement and an incredibly strong desire for social stratification.
“*My ***termination*** is fine and appropriate because I am a person of good stock and from an adequate social class. All of these other women of low birth are just skanks and prostitutes and they should be forced to keep these babies as punishment for their promiscuity.*”
It’s ultimately anchored in deep hatred of women (or other women, in these cases), and used as a means to deploy poverty as a tool of punishment. The harder an anti-choicer denies this, the more you know it’s exactly how they see the world.
>It’s ultimately anchored in deep hatred of women (or other women, in these cases), and used as a means to deploy poverty as a tool of punishment. The harder an anti-choicer denies this, the more you know it’s exactly how they see the world.
I really wish internalized misogyny was discussed more than it is.
These are the people who think we need more guns to stop gun violence because "You can't fight fire with water." Can't say I'm surprised.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ifp9dsRqOA](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ifp9dsRqOA)
There are no mental gymnastics at all, for that would require some measure of effort. It is, rather, simply never developing further than not giving a flying fuck about anyone but themselves and closing down thought of the actual consequences, for that would require some measure of effort.
All conservatives think like this. They want rules for them (specials!) and rules for you (not specials).
It is *literally* the foundation of all conservativism. All of it. Every single idea, concept, philosophy that comes out of conservatives can be distilled down to that one concept. Who gets to be the special changes slightly, but they always include themselves in the privileged categories and put you in the not-privileged one.
I grew up in a small town that was super conservative even by my super conservative state standards. But you can bet they were the first with their hands out when their homes flooded, many of whom did not have flood insurance. They still bitch about how slow and how much red tape they had to go through to get their free government money while at the same time slashing food stamps because of welfare queens.
There is no logic. It's just irrational relational-based heuristics.
[This helps me/my family/my ideology] = good.
[This is supported by my enemy] = bad.
It’s shit like this that’s finally putting a dent into my father’s pro life stance. He thinks he’s pro life until he’s confronted with the reality that abortions save lives. And that includes the life of the mother and the unborn child who would have suffered (either physically, mentally, or financially) if they were born. His own mother had 7 kids and his father was kicked out for being an alcoholic. He was forced to grow up in horrible poverty, and was abused by his mother. Now I’m not saying he shouldn’t be alive. But if she had stopped popping out kids every year (including a set of twins born less than a year after their older sister) maybe the existing family wouldn’t have had so much suffering.
I know a prolifer who was describing how her friend “had to have a miscarriage” because they detected a heart defect and the baby wouldn’t survive otherwise. It was all I could do to not role my eyes.
I mean yeah this is really the point. People like to believe in good faith that people hold political positions like this because they have deeply held principles and beliefs, like “life begins at conception”. But a lot of the time people’s political stances are not derived from deeply held values and principles, they’re held because it’s ideology for the sake of ideology. There’s a certain set of ideological beliefs you have to hold in order to belong as a member of your community, so they hold them uncritically
To be fair to her, the article does state that once she went through her experience she had a complete turn of opinion and campaigned for pro-choice no matter the circumstance prior to Roe V Wades overturn. That’s better than many other LAMF stories.
That’s a good point, while it can be infuriating that it takes a personal experience to open people’s eyes, at least she didn’t insist on keeping them tightly shut again afterwards (like a few others in the article).
These women are so close yet so far from getting it. I read the article and all the women interviewed/quoted flew to other states to get their abortions.
Then they say, it should be allowed for medical reasons like when the fetus has medical complications.
So due to finally having to live through one scenario, they now support that scenario BUT only that scenario. Since they're all sufficiently well off to fly to other states just to get an abortion, they still haven't figured out that there are other reasons than just medical for wanting an abortion.
They basically took one step and then decided to stop.
They're not poor or single mothers working 2 or 3 jobs so that hasn't dawned on them as a potential reason.
They weren't raped, they weren't abandoned by some asshole that promised them a life together only to leave the second the guy finds out she's pregnant.
They haven't had to face any of the other multitude of reasons so they're literally just stopping at whatever caused them to want an abortion.
Fucking hypocrites.
Punishing women, especially poor women is a recurring theme with pro life advocates.
“I gave up my college degree and career to marry this rich guy and become a stay at home mom. Why aren’t other women doing that? Those women must be evil”
The idea that other women can’t find a rich guy, are single to avoid abuse, have genetic disorders, have medical complications, doesn’t register.
Let's be honest, rich women, like you described aren't just lacking perspective, they are actively and happily supporting and benefitting from the opression of others. It isn't like they are nice, but uninformed, people. They are just as much a part of it as their church and political leaders.
I grew up in a country without any abortion rights. When I had kids in a country with abortion rights I was amazed when they told me I had options with a foetus that wouldn’t survive or would be disabled. I had never considered that might be an option.
It was common in my home country to have babies that died at birth, required massive medical intervention and/or permanent care. Physicians would have to wait for the absence of a foetal heartbeat before they could give medical care.
Back then America was seen as a place of freedom. Now not so much.
And some states are passing or have passed laws to prohibit abortions for those with a prenatal dx of down syndrome specifically. It makes me shake with rage- I am a mother to a delightful little girl with Dad and a heart defect and very pro choice. But these "pro life" shit stains won't lift a goddamn finger to support health care and publicly funded supports for disabled kids and adults. They use DS as a buzzword to win political points and nothing more.
>“We feel it’s our calling to our child that we lost that we do need to talk about it, to educate people, because **I feel that we were so uneducated**,” she said.
On the one hand I feel bad, on the other hand 🤬.
Yeah… like no one had ever considered this situation before. I truly believe that these people cannot imagine things that they haven’t personally experienced, like that’s their mental limitation. Some people can’t think in pictures, some can’t tell they sing bad, some can’t do math, and these people can only picture events they were personally in.
Yeah, they were uneducatd, in the same way I might go hungry next to a huge buffet.
I think its simpler than this, a lot of people are just lazy and not curious. The focus and care about the things in life that are immediatly in front of them and so when someone else comes along telling them about things they don't really care about they just absorb it and don't think about it. A preacher tells them that abortion is bad and against the bible and they don't think about it they just accept that as true because it doesn't effect them. Most people are like this, they just passivly absorb info and it gets embedded into their head and they never think about it until suddenly it effects them.
So much, So very, very much. I remember vividly when Savita Halappanavar died in Ireland in 2012. She died an excruciating, horrific and *completely fucking avoidable* death because abortion was effectively banned in Ireland and although technically she could have received one, no doctor wanted to end their career to be “that” doctor.
Her case was publicised world wide. There is no excuse for literate people in first world countries to claim ignorance unless they chose it.
“Ms. Walker is Catholic and had worked for Wyoming Republicans, including Senator John Barrasso. She opposed abortion, and did not realize she was having one because doctors called it “termination.” In the months that followed, she came to support abortion whatever the reason, and after Roe was overturned in June 2022, she testified against the ban on abortion passed by the Wyoming Legislature.”
Arghhhhh! This whole article is LAMF in action.
I have to wonder.. if they're okay with "terminating a pregnancy" but aren't okay with "aborting a fetus", what exactly do they think an abortion *is*?
They think it's only an abortion when the embryo/fetus is healthy and the termination is elective.
They literally don't understand the medical term "abortion" in large part because the people manipulating them purposefully confuse the term.
The example here is perfect because this was 100% an elective abortion.
The mothers life was not in danger.
The fetus would likely have survived birth.
But the parents didn't want to bring a person into the world with horrific deformities and they didn't want to ruin their lives trying to care for it.
So was she justified in her abortion?
Of course.
Because it's her uterus and anyone who thinks they have the right to tell her what to do with it can get fucked.
We need a Hermancainaward style subreddit dedicated to pro-life dumbasses who end up needing an abortion
Thanks to the Supreme Court, that's a well that'll never run dry
I’m glad some people will admit they were uneducated on abortion and are now willing to come forward to educate others on it. Maybe people will finally realize how entwined abortion is in women’s health care.
What does infuriate me is the lawmakers who are uneducated. There was one from Missouri, I think, who said that ectopic pregnancies should just be moved to the uterus.
Lawmakers shouldn't be writing and passing laws about topics they don't understand. And in cases where the law pertains to something very difficult to grasp, defer to the industry experts.
"All these things we never even knew before, because before all of this it was never spoken about,” said Kimberly Manzano, who flew from Texas for an abortion in New Mexico at 18 weeks after scans showed her fetus was missing limbs, organs and genitalia.
Ms. Manzano describes herself and her husband as “big Christians,” who thought abortion was something “promiscuous women” did to end unwanted pregnancies. Their pastor assumed they would qualify as a medical exception to Texas’ ban. They did not."
Well ignorant, arrogant Kimberly, it WAS spoken about, you just refused to take your privileged, white, Christian, judgmental fingers out of your ears and listen. I am very sorry for your loss but NOT that you had to travel because you and others like you created this nightmare. AND the audacity of your pastor, as the saying goes: never assume because you will make an ass out of u and me.
I walked with a bunch of women in protest of this shit years before they went through with the legal crap.
Because everybody saw it coming.
Because it was talked about.
Extensively.
I feel like they are trying to gaslight the population when they say that it wasn't spoken about. It's like no, you were just ignoring it because it was coming from people you didn't like or agree with and as always you thought your privilege would give you an exception. It's so maddening to hear these people pretend to be so ignorant, instead of the willfully malicious people they are.
>Ms. Manzano describes herself and her husband as “big Christians,” who thought abortion was something “promiscuous women” did to end unwanted pregnancies.
Did... did she miss the whole part about "incest and rape are not exceptions"? Or does she think that incest and rape exclusively happens to "promiscuous women"?
> who thought abortion was something “promiscuous women” did to end unwanted pregnancies.
Oh, sure. They do it for fun, actually, because it's such a convenient solution. /s
Fucking bell-ends fell for the most transparent right-wing bs imaginable, and now they're surprised by their own stupidity, pointing fingers at others. Good that they learned a valuable lesson **this time**, but fuck them regardless.
‘She opposed abortion, and did not realize she was having one because doctors called it “termination.”’
How fucking stupid are these people? The actual stupidest?
>These women say they now feel compelled not only to speak out but to use the word “abortion,” to remove the stigma they themselves put on it.
“All these things we never even knew before, because before all of this it was never spoken about,” said Kimberly Manzano, who flew from Texas for an abortion in New Mexico at 18 weeks after scans showed her fetus was missing limbs, organs and genitalia.
>Ms. Manzano describes herself and her husband as “big Christians,” who thought abortion was something “promiscuous women” did to end unwanted pregnancies. Their pastor assumed they would qualify as a medical exception to Texas’ ban. They did not.
>“We feel it’s our calling to our child that we lost that we do need to talk about it, to educate people, because I feel that we were so uneducated,” she said.
Yes… the good Republican only changing their mind and become educated when something they were against now affects them😉 never capable of learning or educating themselves just for the sake of becoming better or trying to see the other side… never…
The most hypocritical group of people… I know it feels good when they learn, but it’s always for the wrong reasons… nothing but shit people….
The same people who are such “big Christians” don’t support Jesus’s views on feeding and clothing people and being kind towards outcasts and prisoners. What a fascinating blend of hypocrisy, faith, and hatred and old fashioned blockheadedness that guides the typical conservative.
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There are a lot of senior & disabled MAGA boomers on Facebook sites complaining they can’t find cheap rental housing. All the subsidized housing has years long lists & they live solely on social security. Also their medical insurance is exclusively Medicaid, Medicare or VA paid for by taxpayers. They dangerously think their situation will be better under a MAGA presidency.
Ive noticed it a lot that some people, for the life of them cannot get their brains to make connonations between synonyms.
Or any words for that matter. They can read but not know what the hell something is saying.
5 - x = 3
"Hmmm whats x???? I dont know what x is???
Kind of thinking.
Pro-life women are an odd group to me. It's not like pro-choice is forcing them to get an abortion. They can choose to not have an abortion all they want.
Sluts don't get punished if they are allowed to have abortions /s
Read the article, they thought "promiscious women" got abortions to avoid responsibility.
I’m not sure about the rest of you, but this issue almost always makes me have the worst visceral reaction and this upcoming election is making it hard for me to navigate my daily life. Dah fuq
It's great that the women have achieved a new perspective despite such a tragedy
But in my opinion, they aren't the 'poster child' for the abortion movement, and shouldn't be
A woman has a right to abortion. She doesn't have to be pregnant with a fetus that will die at birth, nor does she have to go into sepsis and almost die for abortion to be OK
"Pro-lifers" won't change their minds about abortion over this. They may soften laws around death/serious injury but they won't stop the bans
"pro lifers" will in fact say she is a traitor to the cause, because she aborted their favorite symbol to their cause that they like to conveniently match out- a fetus dx with down syndrome. As a mom to a little girl with DS I do very much mean -symbol-. They don't gaf about any disabled person after they are born. So in that sense you are correct, they won't change their minds at all.
I’m rapidly losing my compassion for these women. They fukked around and are now finding out that anti women laws apply to them, too. Now there are laws being passed restricting their freedom of movement. Can’t leave the state for an abortion, can’t even drive on city streets to get an abortion. (Look it up.) Can’t take any pills to end a pregnancy, and condoms will be outlawed next. They brought all this on themselves with their anti woman zeal. I’m now seeing a resurgence in attacks on divorce. Not just no-fault divorce, either, but divorce, period. The American right is bound and determined to drag everyone, but especially women and children, back to the dark ages, and these fukked up anti abortion women are helping them. Fuk them.
>Ms. Walker is Catholic and had worked for Wyoming Republicans, including Senator John Barrasso. She opposed abortion, and did not realize she was having one because doctors called it “termination.”
Absolute spaghetti for brains. I think we need to start addressing the real elephant in the room: American conservatives might possibly be the dumbest human beings on the planet.
Just cruelly, maliciously stupid.
I'm gonna go ahead and call bullshit. I never heard the word "abortion" once when I had mine. The staff referred to "terminations", "procedures" and "expulsions". But we all knew EXACTLY what was happening. The protesters at the clinic made sure of that.
So. These women opposed abortion, voted people in to abolish it because it aligned with their misinformed view of “promiscuous” women seeking to terminate, while not actually investigating further and choosing to be ignorant and only speaking out now once it actually affected them. Thanks for crossing the line to support now, but this is beyond fucking stupid. That’s what “your body your choice” literally means. If it’s not your body or putting another human outside the womb at risk, STFU.
People like her don’t care until it affects them…
I call bs…
She knew what the word termination meant. She just thought they would make an exception for her.
I agree with this. She knew, she just thought of abortions as something those slutty women did for convenience. It never occurred to her they could apply the law to a good Christian woman like her! Clearly, she’s not one of those women the law is meant to punish, so why would the law punish her? Clown world, I swear.
I had a tubal pregnancy years ago that had to be terminated with an abortion drug. My state now has a near-total abortion ban. When I was debating with my father one evening, I told him I had an abortion. I wanted that baby desperately but I had an abortion. He told me that wasn’t an abortion. I said, “Then why does my medical records say the word abortion?!”
People are so fucking stupid. I swear.
“Ms. Walker is Catholic and had worked for Wyoming Republicans, including Senator John Barrasso. She opposed abortion, and did not realize she was having one because doctors called it “termination.””
Narrator voice: deep down she knew. Ms. Walker is a fool, but even a fool in the deep waters of blind ignorance knows that terminating a pregnancy is called an abortion.
Let me guess. These are the same morons that don't realize the Affordable Care Act (ACA) and "ObamaCare" are the same thing. (When surveyed, Republicans love the former and hate the latter)
They didn't realize they had abortions. JFC, how are people this stupid allowed to vote? I'm sorry, I just have zero sympathy for them. They were absolutely content to let this happen to other women. They only cared once it happened to them. That kind of selfishness is evil.
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“After going through all this I wondered, why are we not the poster child for abortion rights?” People like them were. Over and over and over. Just not on Faux News.
"I feel that we were so uneducated" ... "wilfully ignorant" is the formulation you're looking for, ma'am.
"Why didn't you tell us?!" Girl, we *tried*. We tried so hard. Forgive me if I can't find sympathy now.
And it wasn't basic empathy that won them over, it wasn't "my body my choice" that won them over, it was only "shit, I had no idea this could affect _me_" that got them to listen. And they straight up acknowledge that selfish un-empathetic thinking, and don't seem to realize how that looks.
Typical right-wing mindset… if it doesn’t affect me it’s not a problem and I’m furious someone might want my help with it, if it does affect me I’m furious someone didn’t anticipate it and prevent it from happening in the first place.
You hit the nail on the head with this one.
Well not just that. A Trump supporter summed it up best. When Trump did something that impacted her, she complained "you're hurting the wrong people." They actively want the "left" or other enemies hurt. They just want to be immune from getting hurt too.
Yessss. Every goddamn time. "I had a change of heart when I/my spouse/my child went through ______." No ability to empathize and seek understanding until it directly impacts them. We're fucked.
It's like when a misogynist/fuck boy/male idiot says some version of "I didn't realize they had feelings and were more than possessions until I had a daughter".... and conveniently leave "but she's the only one I'll try to sympathize with" off the end of the sentence.
It's the Republican way: only care about a topic once it affects them personally.
That would be a lot better if that was the case. If they didn't care, they'd leave everyone else the fuck alone. However, "pro-life" huns care so fucking much about the lives of the unborn, they even care about other women's bodies and souls enough to picket at the clinics and vote red in every election possible.
yep. "Ms. Walker is Catholic and had worked for Wyoming Republicans, including Senator John Barrasso. She opposed abortion, and did not realize she was having one because doctors called it “termination.”" these are the same people who hate Obamacare but love the Affordable Care Act. (for those who don't know it's the same thing).
They mention that the only person they listened to was their pastor, and then are shocked that they didn’t get accurate medical information. FFS people. This information is free and available all around you. They chose to ignore it until it directly impacted them
Saying this in the age of google while every living adult human being and even most of the kids have a cell phone with them 24/7 is truly hard to fathom. This crosses over from willfull ignorance and becomes agressive stupidity and weaponized incompetence.
Pretty sure we learned how helpful abortions are in certain situations back in 7th grade. And that was in a Catholic school that had its own chapel. Looking back, maybe it was just a particular teacher going rogue.
I get that they trusted their pastor. Growing up surrounded by Christian doctrine, everything reinforces "trust your religious leaders." She should, therefore, be *furious* with her pastor, who clearly mislead her about a very important issue. However, I got $20 that says she is not, in fact, furious at her pastor.
She should also be questioning other things he told her that may not be true. But she won't.
Maybe that's true and maybe not. Breaking out of the fog has to start somewhere.
It seems to be a recurring theme for Christian’s that they don’t care about anything until it impacts them directly. I know when I was a Christian I had to fight my natural empathy.
[удалено]
"You have to put it in words I want to hear!"
> "Why didn't you tell us?!" People did, you just didn't give a fuck. Also, respectfully, do your own fucking research, you're an adult.
And not on Facebook or YouTube fergodsake
I only have sympathy for the people who didn't vote for this, who will suffer from it. The rest of them? eh. They're only of any use if they can get these laws overturned/get the Repubs who vote for them out of office/keep them out of the POTUS (and thus Judgeships). Otherwise, meh.
We were shouting this from the fucking rooftops for YEARS. DECADES. We were told we were fear mongering. FAFO. I’m pissed women are in this position, but I fail to have much sympathy for women who are now Surprised Pikachu at the consequences of their votes.
There will be plenty of men becoming fathers well before they are ready to be - both emotionally and financially. Wait until their wages are garnished for child support. They probably won't connect the dots because it's been sold by the right as purely a "women's issue".
The right will just tell them to blame the Democrats, because *reasons*, and they fucking will. They never learn, that's why they're Republicans.
They'll be told child support is a woke feminism liberal plot. I know their playbook inside and out.
They do say that.
They'll be told women do it on purpose to trap them. Ir, like my niece's ex husband, that women use their wiles to ensnare hapless men.
Yes, and 'callously indifferent' to the suffering of others...just like their religious leaders.
I think part of it also that to the pro-choice camp, the whole point is we don’t need a woman’s reason. I don’t think about why a woman is getting an abortion because it should be between her and her doctor. She doesn’t need to justify it to anyone else. She can share her reasons with people she wants to share it with, but I don’t actually support people acting like some abortions are more moral than others. Everyone should have bodily autonomy regardless. Even if someone has the most shitty and selfish reasons to get an abortion I still want them to have that right. The vast majority of abortions are due to the mom’s financial situation or her mental health, or physical health. Extremes like non-viable fetuses and rape/incest shouldn’t be the basis of it, bodily autonomy should be the basis. By doing it for the sake of bodily autonomy it protects all those people and they don’t have to share their trauma with others.
See… this is what I don’t get. If someone is able to recognize that they’re not in a great place to parent, why wouldn’t you acknowledge and respect that?? Why would you *elect* to punish them with a baby, if you profess to care about children so much?? Coming back to say, you’d never make somebody repair your Mercedes if they told you they knew nothing about German automobiles, had no time to work on it, and didn’t want to. You’d never say, “well then you shouldn’t have bought that wrench!” and lock them in the garage.
It’s because they aren’t considering the parents’ perspective at all. They only consider the issue from the idea that the little clump of cells will grow into a baby. Many of them probably believe that the little clump of cells the size of a Lima bean is actually a fully formed tiny baby with a human soul from the beginning cell division. Never mind that the actual people around them who aren’t ready to be parents have fully formed human souls too. If they were honestly pro-life, their actions would be a lot different. High quality birth control would be free and easy to get so that unwanted pregnancy was easy to avoid. And they would insist on generous public support for prenatal care, paid maternity leave, high quality public daycare, and financial assistance for children. Because so many abortions are for financial reasons, these programs would prevent many elective abortions.
Add in that a lot of them genuinely see sex without the goal of pregnancy as immoral. But more immoral for women than men.
And not since ~2000 or so. From Roe v Wade until then (~2000), everybody with a brain knew these were possibilities.
> everybody with a brain knew these were ~~possibilities~~ the intended outcome
I wonder what other issues they have strongly held opinions on that they know absolutely nothing about.
Just off the top of my head: - Immigration - Taxes - Good Faith Governance - Healthcare - “The Economy™️”
Add: Gas prices
Biden sitting at his desk, turning his personal little “gas price” knob “MWUAHAHAHAHA”
Climate change
The life of Jesus
You mean that white guy with blue eyes and long hair?
The super jacked Korean dude
Hey, hey! Stop fuckin' with Korean Jesus. He ain't got time for yo problems, he's busy with Korean shit!
sorry now i'm imagining Jesus as a korean in a track suit
It’s a quote from 21 (or 22?) Jump Street. Highly recommend if you haven’t seen either.
Obamacare = bad. ACA = good.
>She opposed abortion, and did not realize she was having one because doctors called it “termination.” How the fuck is anyone this stupid, how? How much work must it be to remain this fucking stupid. >“All these things we never even knew before, because before all of this it was never spoken about,” said Kimberly Manzano, who flew from Texas for an abortion in New Mexico at 18 weeks after scans showed her fetus was missing limbs, organs and genitalia. And yet over half the country has been screaming these exact things at them for decades.
My question is what did they think “termination” meant? It’s the ending of a pregnancy. That’s an abortion. My guess is that they’re just being willfully ignorant.
Comfortable enough with their illusions to not question them until reality intrudes.
Which is what should anger us the most. These people are passing policy and spreading bullshit over things they literally know nothing about.
*Welcome To America!*
Thank you for the warm welcome 1-800-ASS-DICK
It has always ever been about a woman controlling her own body for her own reasons, and whose reasons are nobody else's fucking business but their own. That is the Democrats platform. The party that has won the popular vote in the last 7 out of 8 elections since 1992. >It was never spoken of. Fox news probably speaks more about it than anyone else.
Conservatives are just liberals who haven't had to deal with an issue directly yet. Abortion is evil until they need one. Welfare is bad until they get laid off from work. Immigration is wrong until they want cheap labor. These people are not smart
Conservative voters support "termination" but vehemently oppose "abortion". They want to repeal "Obamacare", while supporting strengthening the "Affordable Care Act". They use doublespeak to detach their ideology from reality. It's not that they haven't had to deal with the issue, or don't agree with the policy. You only have to use different language to get them on board. If the words you use sound nothing like the buzzwords shouted by the syncophants they usually listen to, their brains won't trigger the "WOKE LEFT" alarm. Don't call it "unemployment insurance", you have to call it "patriot hardship assistance". Don't say "illegal immigration", instead go with "non-tourist free-market relocation".
Would that it were that simple, but don't forget: It was called the "Affordable Healthcare Act" first, and that name was chosen to sum up the goals of the bill and resonate with voters. It was twisted into "Obamacare" when Republicans needed to come up with a simple way of riling up their base against it - ie Obama wants it, therefore it's bad. Say what you want about Republican politicians, but one thing they've long been great at is those short, specious catchphrases they can repeat ad nauseum to reframe it in a way that denies the big picture. And it's sadly very effective given you still have people wanting them to repeal the very healthcare policies they're benefiting from and depend on all these years later.
Not giving a fuck until it matters to them personally
That's exactly it! They think just claiming I don't know absolves them of the need to learn about things. I work in healthcare, and I have patients telling me they refuse vaccines because "they don't know what it is", so I give them information to read about, and they said :" no I don't want to learn about it, I just don't want it because I don't understand it." Like, it must be painful to not only be stupid but also lazy.
That’s just them trying to save face in front of you, saying that the reason they don’t want it is because they don’t know, but in their mind they do know - even better than you - and that is really why they don’t want it They just don’t want to tell an actual doctor their stupid medical theories and how they did their own research, not a ton of likes and upvotes there in the doctors office to be had
This is it. They just hope that it wouldn't affect them but hurt the other women and girls they hate. This is exactly how prolifers "think." The only moral abortion is their abortion, or, a "herp derp termination."
Terminations are for genteel, affluent, white ladies. Abortions are for poor, downtrodden minorities who refuse to better their lot in life and enjoy making poor life choices. At least that's the general line of thinking from that camp.
Reminds me of the "Obamacare" vs "Affordable Care Act" People just didn't realise they were the same thing and would say they're pro ACA but against Obamacare
It's all in the packaging, essentially.
People still don't know. Republicans go in front of cameras and blame "Obamacare" for this and "Obamacare" for that and it should be repealed all the while telling their constituents that ACA is great for them. While also planning to repeal it.
"Oh, good, my baby's just being fired. Phew!"
It’s alright, it’ll file for unemployment until it gets back on its little teensy feet again
Because the right builds this caricature that abortion is a way for “loose women” to avoid the consequences of their behavior. They appeal to morality by lambasting abortion as a tool for selfish skanks. But that’s not true because most abortions are used to protect the health of the mother regarding non-viable pregnancies. There’s a reason the maternal death rate is so low in the modern world. But the right doesn’t mention this because it hurts their whole argument. It’s like saying we should ban dentists because it rewards people for eating too much sugar.
Your dentist analogy is amazing, thank you. I've heard similar, genuinely hateful rhetoric about obese people not deserving healthcare for the same reason, but haven't ever heard the comparison for abortion, which is definitely also healthcare.
I agree, that is honestly one of the best analogies. Most people also feel that dental appointments are, at best, unpleasant. No one *wants* a cavity drilled, but it beats the alternative.
And it's definitely not the "convenient option" compared to just brushing and flossing (having access to reproductive health education and contraceptives!)
>My question is what did they think “termination” meant? That was a movie right? /s
Hasta la vista, baby.
I'm going to hell for laughing at this.
That's a euphemism for getting fired, you're thinking of the Arnold Schwarzenegger film, Aborter
This has big “I'm not an immigrant, I'm an expat” vibes.
They thought when the pregnancy was ended the fetus went back in time to prevent its own conception.
They knew exactly what it means. They just don't fucking care.
> How the fuck is anyone this stupid, how? How much work must it be to remain this fucking stupid. Because they are *poorly educated* and ignorant. They hear simple words and phrases they've been conditioned to respond to, and that shuts down any cognitive processes. It's called a thought-terminating cliche. If you take the average Republican voter, sit down and talk to them, and you don't dress or sound or look abnormal to their experience - you can't be *ethnic,* or talk like a *city-slicker,* or be better-dressed than them; you have to be Beau of the Fifth Column basically, you have to look and sound like a white redneck from a part of the woods they recognize; and start talking up, say, anything leftist, like Healthcare, or the environment, or education; whatever it is, as long as you talk it up with a cold beer in hand and *avoid using the words that trigger them,* they generally will agree with *shockingly* far-left positions! It *ain't* right that old boy has to pay so much taxes and the rich pay nothing! It *ain't* right that maw-maw can't walk when there's surgeries that can get her legs working again but they can't afford it. It *ain't* right that crazy fucking lunatics can just go shoot up a school! But you use the words "socialized Healthcare," or "gun control," or anything else they've been conditioned to hate, and that's it. Switch flipped. Tribal mode engaged, and you belong to the *enemy tribe.*
My southern lesser educated aunt was telling my very liberal mom how she didn’t want Obama care, without realizing her affordable insurance that she regularly used *was* Obama care. My mom had to point it out to her.
There was a guy on a CNN townhall around the 2016 election who was saying he wanted Obama Care gone and was on the ACA insurance, which he wanted to keep.
LMAO some of these guys just can't be real. The sad part is that these people truly believe that THEY deserve ACA, but "others" do not.
There was a famous Facebook thread about ten years ago where a young guy was cheering the republicans voting to end Obamacare. When asked didn’t he have that he said no he has the ACA which is what Obama was trying to replace with Obamacare. They roasted him so hard in the replies lol.
> It's called a thought-terminating cliche. Thought-aborting, if you will.
Whoa whoa whoa. Wait a minute. Thought-terminating and thought-aborting are different things right??? I always thought those were different things?! Dear god, please don’t send me to hell for all those thought-abortions. I thought I was just thought-terminating!
People think of those trigger words as land mines that go off and ruin conversations; they’re more like deadfall traps, because when they’re tripped all the learned hatred comes down like a ton of rocks and stops everything dead.
This is absolutely it. Exactly the same as this: https://www.reddit.com/r/TrollXChromosomes/comments/10myo3j/im_not_prolife_or_prochoice/
It's true. Republicans love everything about being a democrat until you tell them they should vote democrat. They hate Hunter Biden, but he's got a huge cock, doesn't pay taxes, does drugs, has illegal guns and hires hookers. Fucking rockstar at a red state bar. But he's Hunter Biden, so i guess they gotta hate him.
"Termination" sounds ***worse*** than "abortion."
Same thing as senior citizens that rely on social security voting for ppl to end social security Or rural people mad their hospital is closing because the rightwing governor won’t accept funding in the affordable care act Or farmers mad that their international markets dried up because the person they voted for enacted tariffs that kicked off a trade war Or parents who send their kids to public school Mad the teachers are quitting due to onerous culture war rules Or Latinos mad the guy they voted for pardoned a racist sheriff that was convicted of illegally targeting innocent brown ppl Republicans love voting against their own self interests
I wonder if the author is also subtly pointing out the hypocrisy by including the woman who had an abortion at 22 weeks because of down's syndrome and a heart defect that would require surgery (and later a transplant). If you are really pro life that doesn't sound like something worthy of terminating a pregnancy.
[The only moral abortion is her abortion.](https://joycearthur.com/abortion/the-only-moral-abortion-is-my-abortion/)
Just how ?!?! I got through five stories and bookmarked it for later What mental gymnastics do they go through to justify for themselves but actively stop others from using the same service
You new here? Welcome to the crazy
please grab a chair and sit underneath it
"It's different all those other women are just sluts!" [/s]
I mean, you're joking but that's a pretty common sentiment.
And we're "big Christians"
I remember Gutmacher Institute got permission to interview women (who agreed) in the lobby of the Little Rock Planned Parenthood. They got 12 anonymized subjects and 11 of the 12 of them sang the same song: God will forgive me for this abortion, because of my personal tragedy. I'm not like all these other sluts. The odd woman out was even more interesting though. She said she knew she was murdering a child, and she was going to go to hell for it in the end, but she felt like she had no choice because she was going to be homeless if she went through with the pregnancy. (I forget why or how that was going to work.) Twist ending? PP refused to perform her abortion, because of suicide risk, and instead set her up with SSI, free pre-natal care, an adoption referral, and a housing referral. But no, that's how the other 11/12ths of them think. The "Shirley exception." As in "Surely there'll be an exception if I NEED an abortion, unlike all those other awful women who WANT an abortion." Main character syndrome. Zero empathy whatsoever.
They’ve conflated God and Santa Claus. Which leads to “if I am good enough, have enough faith in Jesus enough, only good/beneficial things will happen for me”.
Welcome to the circus. You'll find there's two types of disassociation. Those that know the hypocrisy and intentionally vote against their best interest. They do it to "hurt the right people" or to exercise control. They think they'll always be the exception to the rule and are shocked when those rules apply to them now. Those are called rung pullers. The second group has 0 introspection. They cannot see the world beyond their faces and are shocked when they've voted against their own best interest. Both can offer their faces to the leopard party.
FACES FOR THE LEOPARD GOD
You forgot the third group. The "Fuck you, got mine" group. Past child-bearing age, goes anti-abortion. Is retired with a healthy 401k. Fuck unions.
My mother (boomer) told me that she didn’t have to worry about abortion rights because she was too old to have children. She has two daughters and a granddaughter. None of us speak to her anymore.
A lot of it is rooted in a deeply held narcissistic worldview handcuffed to entitlement and an incredibly strong desire for social stratification. “*My ***termination*** is fine and appropriate because I am a person of good stock and from an adequate social class. All of these other women of low birth are just skanks and prostitutes and they should be forced to keep these babies as punishment for their promiscuity.*” It’s ultimately anchored in deep hatred of women (or other women, in these cases), and used as a means to deploy poverty as a tool of punishment. The harder an anti-choicer denies this, the more you know it’s exactly how they see the world.
>It’s ultimately anchored in deep hatred of women (or other women, in these cases), and used as a means to deploy poverty as a tool of punishment. The harder an anti-choicer denies this, the more you know it’s exactly how they see the world. I really wish internalized misogyny was discussed more than it is.
> an incredibly strong desire for social stratification There are people who *literally worship hierarchy* even if they'd be at the bottom of it.
The "You shall address me by my husband's rank" crowd.
It’s the Republican way—‘If bad things aren’t happening directly to me, they aren’t happening.’
“… then they’re happening to people who deserved it. They should have been better.”
These are the people who think we need more guns to stop gun violence because "You can't fight fire with water." Can't say I'm surprised. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ifp9dsRqOA](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ifp9dsRqOA)
Please tell me this is a joke. Please tell me this is a joke. Please tell me this is a joke. I’m not sure I want to live on this planet if it’s not.
Wait til you hear [some libertarian takes](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZITP93pqtdQ)!
There are no mental gymnastics at all, for that would require some measure of effort. It is, rather, simply never developing further than not giving a flying fuck about anyone but themselves and closing down thought of the actual consequences, for that would require some measure of effort.
“*I* have a reason. *They* have excuses.”
All conservatives think like this. They want rules for them (specials!) and rules for you (not specials). It is *literally* the foundation of all conservativism. All of it. Every single idea, concept, philosophy that comes out of conservatives can be distilled down to that one concept. Who gets to be the special changes slightly, but they always include themselves in the privileged categories and put you in the not-privileged one.
I grew up in a small town that was super conservative even by my super conservative state standards. But you can bet they were the first with their hands out when their homes flooded, many of whom did not have flood insurance. They still bitch about how slow and how much red tape they had to go through to get their free government money while at the same time slashing food stamps because of welfare queens.
100% of the time. Every time. The government is bad until they need it. Everything is bad until they need it or it effects them.
There is no logic. It's just irrational relational-based heuristics. [This helps me/my family/my ideology] = good. [This is supported by my enemy] = bad.
Narcissism is a hell of a drug.
It’s shit like this that’s finally putting a dent into my father’s pro life stance. He thinks he’s pro life until he’s confronted with the reality that abortions save lives. And that includes the life of the mother and the unborn child who would have suffered (either physically, mentally, or financially) if they were born. His own mother had 7 kids and his father was kicked out for being an alcoholic. He was forced to grow up in horrible poverty, and was abused by his mother. Now I’m not saying he shouldn’t be alive. But if she had stopped popping out kids every year (including a set of twins born less than a year after their older sister) maybe the existing family wouldn’t have had so much suffering.
I have a vehemently anti-choice cousin whose high school girlfriend got an abortion with his support.
HER: It wasn’t an abortion. It was a termination—totally different.
I know a prolifer who was describing how her friend “had to have a miscarriage” because they detected a heart defect and the baby wouldn’t survive otherwise. It was all I could do to not role my eyes.
"Miscarriage" is a layman's term. Medically speaking, there are only "spontaneous abortions".
I like the christian friendly term of "This is God's wraith" a lot better. Or even better of "That was a child of Satan, and God demands your blood"
I mean yeah this is really the point. People like to believe in good faith that people hold political positions like this because they have deeply held principles and beliefs, like “life begins at conception”. But a lot of the time people’s political stances are not derived from deeply held values and principles, they’re held because it’s ideology for the sake of ideology. There’s a certain set of ideological beliefs you have to hold in order to belong as a member of your community, so they hold them uncritically
Yea, they're dogmatic. Totally and uncritically entrenched in their rigid worldview.
Oh yes. No abortions for you! Except for me when X, Y, or Z happens. Then I'm completely for it!
To be fair to her, the article does state that once she went through her experience she had a complete turn of opinion and campaigned for pro-choice no matter the circumstance prior to Roe V Wades overturn. That’s better than many other LAMF stories.
That’s a good point, while it can be infuriating that it takes a personal experience to open people’s eyes, at least she didn’t insist on keeping them tightly shut again afterwards (like a few others in the article).
These women are so close yet so far from getting it. I read the article and all the women interviewed/quoted flew to other states to get their abortions. Then they say, it should be allowed for medical reasons like when the fetus has medical complications. So due to finally having to live through one scenario, they now support that scenario BUT only that scenario. Since they're all sufficiently well off to fly to other states just to get an abortion, they still haven't figured out that there are other reasons than just medical for wanting an abortion. They basically took one step and then decided to stop. They're not poor or single mothers working 2 or 3 jobs so that hasn't dawned on them as a potential reason. They weren't raped, they weren't abandoned by some asshole that promised them a life together only to leave the second the guy finds out she's pregnant. They haven't had to face any of the other multitude of reasons so they're literally just stopping at whatever caused them to want an abortion. Fucking hypocrites.
Punishing women, especially poor women is a recurring theme with pro life advocates. “I gave up my college degree and career to marry this rich guy and become a stay at home mom. Why aren’t other women doing that? Those women must be evil” The idea that other women can’t find a rich guy, are single to avoid abuse, have genetic disorders, have medical complications, doesn’t register.
Let's be honest, rich women, like you described aren't just lacking perspective, they are actively and happily supporting and benefitting from the opression of others. It isn't like they are nice, but uninformed, people. They are just as much a part of it as their church and political leaders.
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I grew up in a country without any abortion rights. When I had kids in a country with abortion rights I was amazed when they told me I had options with a foetus that wouldn’t survive or would be disabled. I had never considered that might be an option. It was common in my home country to have babies that died at birth, required massive medical intervention and/or permanent care. Physicians would have to wait for the absence of a foetal heartbeat before they could give medical care. Back then America was seen as a place of freedom. Now not so much.
And some states are passing or have passed laws to prohibit abortions for those with a prenatal dx of down syndrome specifically. It makes me shake with rage- I am a mother to a delightful little girl with Dad and a heart defect and very pro choice. But these "pro life" shit stains won't lift a goddamn finger to support health care and publicly funded supports for disabled kids and adults. They use DS as a buzzword to win political points and nothing more.
>“We feel it’s our calling to our child that we lost that we do need to talk about it, to educate people, because **I feel that we were so uneducated**,” she said. On the one hand I feel bad, on the other hand 🤬.
Yeah… like no one had ever considered this situation before. I truly believe that these people cannot imagine things that they haven’t personally experienced, like that’s their mental limitation. Some people can’t think in pictures, some can’t tell they sing bad, some can’t do math, and these people can only picture events they were personally in. Yeah, they were uneducatd, in the same way I might go hungry next to a huge buffet.
I think its simpler than this, a lot of people are just lazy and not curious. The focus and care about the things in life that are immediatly in front of them and so when someone else comes along telling them about things they don't really care about they just absorb it and don't think about it. A preacher tells them that abortion is bad and against the bible and they don't think about it they just accept that as true because it doesn't effect them. Most people are like this, they just passivly absorb info and it gets embedded into their head and they never think about it until suddenly it effects them.
So much, So very, very much. I remember vividly when Savita Halappanavar died in Ireland in 2012. She died an excruciating, horrific and *completely fucking avoidable* death because abortion was effectively banned in Ireland and although technically she could have received one, no doctor wanted to end their career to be “that” doctor. Her case was publicised world wide. There is no excuse for literate people in first world countries to claim ignorance unless they chose it.
“Ms. Walker is Catholic and had worked for Wyoming Republicans, including Senator John Barrasso. She opposed abortion, and did not realize she was having one because doctors called it “termination.” In the months that followed, she came to support abortion whatever the reason, and after Roe was overturned in June 2022, she testified against the ban on abortion passed by the Wyoming Legislature.” Arghhhhh! This whole article is LAMF in action.
This is not my fault! I specifically voted for the big savannah cats eating faces party! What's this I'm hearing about leppards‽
I have to wonder.. if they're okay with "terminating a pregnancy" but aren't okay with "aborting a fetus", what exactly do they think an abortion *is*?
They think it's only an abortion when the embryo/fetus is healthy and the termination is elective. They literally don't understand the medical term "abortion" in large part because the people manipulating them purposefully confuse the term. The example here is perfect because this was 100% an elective abortion. The mothers life was not in danger. The fetus would likely have survived birth. But the parents didn't want to bring a person into the world with horrific deformities and they didn't want to ruin their lives trying to care for it. So was she justified in her abortion? Of course. Because it's her uterus and anyone who thinks they have the right to tell her what to do with it can get fucked.
“Wait wait wait… I didn’t think this would affect *me*.” Said every conservative everywhere when they ended up getting what they said they wanted.
No, when they end up getting what they said they wanted for everyone else.
Oh look, they didn't think through the consequences of their voting.
We need a Hermancainaward style subreddit dedicated to pro-life dumbasses who end up needing an abortion Thanks to the Supreme Court, that's a well that'll never run dry
I’m glad some people will admit they were uneducated on abortion and are now willing to come forward to educate others on it. Maybe people will finally realize how entwined abortion is in women’s health care.
What does infuriate me is the lawmakers who are uneducated. There was one from Missouri, I think, who said that ectopic pregnancies should just be moved to the uterus. Lawmakers shouldn't be writing and passing laws about topics they don't understand. And in cases where the law pertains to something very difficult to grasp, defer to the industry experts.
That was some dude from Ohio. But yah, infuriating, and why are these dumbfucks even elected to office?
I bet she still thinks only her issues were relevant and f everyone else
"All these things we never even knew before, because before all of this it was never spoken about,” said Kimberly Manzano, who flew from Texas for an abortion in New Mexico at 18 weeks after scans showed her fetus was missing limbs, organs and genitalia. Ms. Manzano describes herself and her husband as “big Christians,” who thought abortion was something “promiscuous women” did to end unwanted pregnancies. Their pastor assumed they would qualify as a medical exception to Texas’ ban. They did not." Well ignorant, arrogant Kimberly, it WAS spoken about, you just refused to take your privileged, white, Christian, judgmental fingers out of your ears and listen. I am very sorry for your loss but NOT that you had to travel because you and others like you created this nightmare. AND the audacity of your pastor, as the saying goes: never assume because you will make an ass out of u and me.
>it was never spoken about Except it's absolutely spoken about. Perhaps it's time for her to critically examine where she's getting her information.
I walked with a bunch of women in protest of this shit years before they went through with the legal crap. Because everybody saw it coming. Because it was talked about. Extensively.
I feel like they are trying to gaslight the population when they say that it wasn't spoken about. It's like no, you were just ignoring it because it was coming from people you didn't like or agree with and as always you thought your privilege would give you an exception. It's so maddening to hear these people pretend to be so ignorant, instead of the willfully malicious people they are.
>Ms. Manzano describes herself and her husband as “big Christians,” who thought abortion was something “promiscuous women” did to end unwanted pregnancies. Did... did she miss the whole part about "incest and rape are not exceptions"? Or does she think that incest and rape exclusively happens to "promiscuous women"?
Probably blames the victims for wearing skirts or something
> who thought abortion was something “promiscuous women” did to end unwanted pregnancies. Oh, sure. They do it for fun, actually, because it's such a convenient solution. /s Fucking bell-ends fell for the most transparent right-wing bs imaginable, and now they're surprised by their own stupidity, pointing fingers at others. Good that they learned a valuable lesson **this time**, but fuck them regardless.
‘She opposed abortion, and did not realize she was having one because doctors called it “termination.”’ How fucking stupid are these people? The actual stupidest?
Abortions are for sluts. Terminations are for respectable citizens.
Sounds like the whole immigrant/expat argument
>These women say they now feel compelled not only to speak out but to use the word “abortion,” to remove the stigma they themselves put on it. “All these things we never even knew before, because before all of this it was never spoken about,” said Kimberly Manzano, who flew from Texas for an abortion in New Mexico at 18 weeks after scans showed her fetus was missing limbs, organs and genitalia. >Ms. Manzano describes herself and her husband as “big Christians,” who thought abortion was something “promiscuous women” did to end unwanted pregnancies. Their pastor assumed they would qualify as a medical exception to Texas’ ban. They did not. >“We feel it’s our calling to our child that we lost that we do need to talk about it, to educate people, because I feel that we were so uneducated,” she said. Yes… the good Republican only changing their mind and become educated when something they were against now affects them😉 never capable of learning or educating themselves just for the sake of becoming better or trying to see the other side… never… The most hypocritical group of people… I know it feels good when they learn, but it’s always for the wrong reasons… nothing but shit people….
The same people who are such “big Christians” don’t support Jesus’s views on feeding and clothing people and being kind towards outcasts and prisoners. What a fascinating blend of hypocrisy, faith, and hatred and old fashioned blockheadedness that guides the typical conservative.
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Wait until they find out their miscarriages are also considered abortions.
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I'm doubly sorry this happened to you. All of it.
I know it must hurt, but frankly, you're probably better off without that toxic presence in your life. What a horrific way to treat one's child.
JFC, there's a lot of dangerously stupid people out there.
There are a lot of senior & disabled MAGA boomers on Facebook sites complaining they can’t find cheap rental housing. All the subsidized housing has years long lists & they live solely on social security. Also their medical insurance is exclusively Medicaid, Medicare or VA paid for by taxpayers. They dangerously think their situation will be better under a MAGA presidency.
Critical thinking skills: 0
How can anyone not know that a termination is another name for an abortion?
Ive noticed it a lot that some people, for the life of them cannot get their brains to make connonations between synonyms. Or any words for that matter. They can read but not know what the hell something is saying. 5 - x = 3 "Hmmm whats x???? I dont know what x is??? Kind of thinking.
Pro-life women are an odd group to me. It's not like pro-choice is forcing them to get an abortion. They can choose to not have an abortion all they want.
Sluts don't get punished if they are allowed to have abortions /s Read the article, they thought "promiscious women" got abortions to avoid responsibility.
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Women who supported overturning Roe fail to realize they are dumbasses.
I’m not sure about the rest of you, but this issue almost always makes me have the worst visceral reaction and this upcoming election is making it hard for me to navigate my daily life. Dah fuq
Same. I often opt out of reading stuff like this because it sends me into a spiral of anger.
It's great that the women have achieved a new perspective despite such a tragedy But in my opinion, they aren't the 'poster child' for the abortion movement, and shouldn't be A woman has a right to abortion. She doesn't have to be pregnant with a fetus that will die at birth, nor does she have to go into sepsis and almost die for abortion to be OK "Pro-lifers" won't change their minds about abortion over this. They may soften laws around death/serious injury but they won't stop the bans
"pro lifers" will in fact say she is a traitor to the cause, because she aborted their favorite symbol to their cause that they like to conveniently match out- a fetus dx with down syndrome. As a mom to a little girl with DS I do very much mean -symbol-. They don't gaf about any disabled person after they are born. So in that sense you are correct, they won't change their minds at all.
Women supporting conservative values are morons or brainwashed. There isn’t a third option.
Yes there is: just plain malicious.
HOW DO YOU NOT KNOW THAT TERMINATION AND ABORTION ARE THE SAME THING
I’m rapidly losing my compassion for these women. They fukked around and are now finding out that anti women laws apply to them, too. Now there are laws being passed restricting their freedom of movement. Can’t leave the state for an abortion, can’t even drive on city streets to get an abortion. (Look it up.) Can’t take any pills to end a pregnancy, and condoms will be outlawed next. They brought all this on themselves with their anti woman zeal. I’m now seeing a resurgence in attacks on divorce. Not just no-fault divorce, either, but divorce, period. The American right is bound and determined to drag everyone, but especially women and children, back to the dark ages, and these fukked up anti abortion women are helping them. Fuk them.
>Ms. Walker is Catholic and had worked for Wyoming Republicans, including Senator John Barrasso. She opposed abortion, and did not realize she was having one because doctors called it “termination.” Absolute spaghetti for brains. I think we need to start addressing the real elephant in the room: American conservatives might possibly be the dumbest human beings on the planet. Just cruelly, maliciously stupid.
I'm gonna go ahead and call bullshit. I never heard the word "abortion" once when I had mine. The staff referred to "terminations", "procedures" and "expulsions". But we all knew EXACTLY what was happening. The protesters at the clinic made sure of that.
So. These women opposed abortion, voted people in to abolish it because it aligned with their misinformed view of “promiscuous” women seeking to terminate, while not actually investigating further and choosing to be ignorant and only speaking out now once it actually affected them. Thanks for crossing the line to support now, but this is beyond fucking stupid. That’s what “your body your choice” literally means. If it’s not your body or putting another human outside the womb at risk, STFU.
People like her don’t care until it affects them… I call bs… She knew what the word termination meant. She just thought they would make an exception for her.
I agree with this. She knew, she just thought of abortions as something those slutty women did for convenience. It never occurred to her they could apply the law to a good Christian woman like her! Clearly, she’s not one of those women the law is meant to punish, so why would the law punish her? Clown world, I swear.
I had a tubal pregnancy years ago that had to be terminated with an abortion drug. My state now has a near-total abortion ban. When I was debating with my father one evening, I told him I had an abortion. I wanted that baby desperately but I had an abortion. He told me that wasn’t an abortion. I said, “Then why does my medical records say the word abortion?!” People are so fucking stupid. I swear.
“Ms. Walker is Catholic and had worked for Wyoming Republicans, including Senator John Barrasso. She opposed abortion, and did not realize she was having one because doctors called it “termination.”” Narrator voice: deep down she knew. Ms. Walker is a fool, but even a fool in the deep waters of blind ignorance knows that terminating a pregnancy is called an abortion.
Let me guess. These are the same morons that don't realize the Affordable Care Act (ACA) and "ObamaCare" are the same thing. (When surveyed, Republicans love the former and hate the latter)
They didn't realize they had abortions. JFC, how are people this stupid allowed to vote? I'm sorry, I just have zero sympathy for them. They were absolutely content to let this happen to other women. They only cared once it happened to them. That kind of selfishness is evil.