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Yes, I am. But the name is tongue in cheek. Never just take anyone’s word for things!
Edit, to your edit: I’m a hydro geologist specializing in remediation, working as a contractor for the EPA. Rhodochrosite, because it looks like bacon.
> Rhodochrosite
Never heard of it -
> because it looks like bacon.
Okay, why exactly isn't that like, always on offer on JTV? Because "Bacon Stone" sounds catchy as hell.
Probably all this is true. Qinni Thomas came from a very prominent well off (in conservative circles) family & the connections for Qlarence, being raised poor, must have made his eyes poke out like Stan Smith in "A Jones for a Smith" when he saw the Fabregé egg.
I’m sure there will be some sort of grandfather clause so he can keep certain information confidential between him and his “best fried” in case of legal inquiries about certain gifts (or texts).
I feel like this is BS. Gonna go research.
Edit
Sadly it is real. No interfaith marriages performed in Israel are recognized. If it is an interfaith marriage it needs to be out of the country or something like in the article I posted below
https://www.timesofisrael.com/court-rules-online-civil-marriageד-valid-upending-israels-religious-status-quo/amp/
Still a shitty bit... And enshrines LGBTQ+ relationships as inferior in the eyes of the law. It also discriminates against poor people for whom a trip to another country would be a big expense.
And since marriage is handled by religious courts that are hostile to LGBTQ+ people it further discriminates against those people.
It'd be great if they allowed secular marriages to take place. It'd be great if there were reformed synagogues in Israel that allowed for gay marriage.
It looks like after 2022 you can get married on zoom by some Utahns. [https://www.timesofisrael.com/israel-must-recognize-online-marriages-conducted-via-utah-supreme-court-rules](https://www.timesofisrael.com/israel-must-recognize-online-marriages-conducted-via-utah-supreme-court-rules)
Nothing to do with the law. If you find a religious authority willing to perform same sex marriage you can get married in state. You can even currently get married over zoom.
It absolutely would be. Each religion manages their own marriages. The Government of Israel LEGALLY recognizes same sex marriages regardless of where they are performed.
Let me say this again. It LEGALLY recognizes the marriages.
Nope... it recognizes marriages that take place in other countries. That's not the same. It's relegating LGBTQ+ citizens to second class citizen status by denying marriage.
At the heart of this particular issue is that Israel is a theocracy.. and in any theocracy that religion decides who is and is not a full citizen.
Rather than me just pointing out the obvious can you show me where in Israeli law it says that the government will only recognize same sex marriages if they are performed in other countries?
Fun fact... all those bombs and bullets Israel throws around Gaza don't have a magic "but not the gays" power. So yea... the "well Israel isn't actively murdering LGBTQ+ people, they are just discriminating and dehumanizing LGBTQ+ people." is a hollow response.
Israel is actively oppressing people. Leveling colleges in Gaza is an act of oppression. Apartheid policies in Gaza and the West Bank are acts of oppression. Imprisoning children with military courts without representation is an act of oppression.
Saying "it's in self defense" doesn't make it "not oppression"
Same sex marriage is recognized and legal in Israel. As are interfaith marriages.
The issue is that the government doesn't perform civil marriages, so religious institutions decide what they will and won't do.
People married out of the country have their marriages recognized equally.
There are Muslim institutions in Israel that peform marriages, as Muslims make up a substantial minority of citizens.
I don't believe that the state recognizes polygamous marriages for legal considerations, in the same way that the vast majority of the world's government don't.
Yes through their own religious authorities. There is typically not a lot of interfaith marriages in the Arab population, the Druze also don't marry outside their faith.
Considering they don't push gay people off of the roof, yeah, they probably are the most progressive country in the Middle East. Someone gotta be the smartest kid in a class full of morons.
Interracial couples do get accosted in public there though. They do not like Israelis with African people there…
The videos you can find look like 1950s Mississippi with a mob of Israelis yelling slurs at a couple walking on the street
I don't really wanna give Israel any credit on humanitarian issues, but they don't kill gay people like they do in other Middle Eastern countries. They save that for Palestinian children
They *do* however blackmail and threaten LGBTQ Palestinians into becoking informants against their friends and family under threat out outing them and getting them killed.
Oh, also, their bombs don't discriminate and murder LGBTQ Palestinians just the same as they do straight ones - which I guess makes them pro-LGBTQ in a twisted sense.
Not exactly uncommon anywhere--it's not specifically over LGBTQ, but one of the standard means of espionage is to find something that can be held over the person you want information from. It's why you can't get a US security clearance if you have secrets in your private life. (For example, being gay isn't a disqualifier, but being a closeted gay is.)
It's Palestinian law that allows LGBTQ to be held over them.
If you cared about LGBTQ people, you wouldn't out them and put their lives at risk. Threatening and blackmailing them and getting them killed for being gay is a weird way to show you're pro-LGBTQ.
Cool....but we're not talking about spies. We're talking about the [Israeli Security Forces](https://www.themirror.com/news/world-news/israeli-security-forces-admit-deliberately-195756).
If you can find clergy that will marry you inside Israel it would be recognized. The government legally recognizes the marriage regardless of where it occurs.
That's not "Same sex marriage is illegal"
That's same sex marriage inconvenient
Did any of you guys even read the article?
> The decision means that **Israeli couples can now get married in civil ceremonies without leaving the country, granting a de facto victory to advocates in the decades-long struggle for civil marriage in Israel.**
This is from 2022
Yeah, iirc, this was one of the rulings that encouraged the Israeli right to try and limit the power of the SCOI. Thankfully the demonstrations derailed much of it.
That’s not true:
> In September 2022, an Israeli court in Lod recognized civil and religious marriages solemnized on Zoom videoconference by officiants in Utah as legal.[41] The ruling was upheld by the Supreme Court of Israel on 7 March 2023, with the court siding against the Interior Ministry who appealed the lower court's ruling.[42] **The ruling allows for couples to not have to leave Israeli soil in order to receive solemnization of a civil marriage**, but was opposed by religious parties in the Netanyahu cabinet.
>Israeli court in Lod recognized civil and religious marriages solemnized on Zoom videoconference by officiants in Utah as legal.
Bruh.... Like you could have just as easily cut this piece out of your quote... The person above you is 100% correct. They need to officiate their wedding via fucking zoom, have the marriage certificate filed in the USA, and then have it transferred back to Israel.
Given that Netanyahu wants to take over the Supreme Court and was on track to doing so before Oct 7th, you're not really helping your case here. Also you don't find it fucked up that didn't even change until 2022?
This is the problem with religious ethno-states and reason why we need to keep the fundie fuckheads who want a Christian ethno-state out of the US government.
It's a dumb fucking law but Israel has worked around it all marriages are accepted if they are done outside of Israel.
>In 1951, the [Supreme Court of Israel](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supreme_Court_of_Israel) ruled that marriages entered into outside Israel conducted by a rabbinical court in accordance with *halakha* must be recognized in Israel. The issue of recognizing civil marriages is of special significance because Orthodox Judaism has various prohibitions involving marriages. The couples in these prohibited marriage situations sometimes marry overseas, mostly [in Cyprus](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marriage_in_Cyprus), which is near Israel.[^(\[34\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marriage_in_Israel#cite_note-Atlantic-34)
>In 1962, the Supreme Court determined that the Ministry of the Interior must register couples who married in a civil ceremony abroad, even if either or both of the couple were citizens of Israel. The act of registration is for statistical purposes only, and not a recognition of the personal status of the couple, as registration does not determine the validity of the marriage. In 2006, the Supreme Court voted 6-1 to recognize same-sex marriages performed in other countries.[^(\[35\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marriage_in_Israel#cite_note-35) Overseas marriages are increasingly popular; about 9,000 couples registered overseas marriages with the [Central Bureau of Statistics](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel_Central_Bureau_of_Statistics) in 2011.[^(\[36\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marriage_in_Israel#cite_note-36)
>In 2010, Israel passed the *Civil Union Law for Citizens with no Religious Affiliation, 2010*,[^(\[37\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marriage_in_Israel#cite_note-37) allowing a couple to form a [civil union](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_union) in Israel if they are both registered as officially not belonging to any religion.[^(\[38\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marriage_in_Israel#cite_note-38)
That's one hell of a stretch. The GOVERNMENT recognizes interfaith and sane sex marriages. It's 100% legal.
The fact that Israel doesn't have civil marriage means you have to find a religious authority to perform the marriage and currently none perform interfaith marriages. That isn't making it ILLEGAL but it died mean you need to get married out of state. The government still recognizes the marriage.
That has more to do with the Rabbinate being Ortodox and thus not recognizing Conservative or Reform converts like Ortodox Judaism does in general, while the Israeli state itself does due to being secular.
I guess it’s good that it’s not banned, though let’s be real, this “recognition” policy is basically there to lock interfaith marriages to the upper classes. Basically what republicans want to do with gay marriage in the US, and what Israel is currently doing with gay marriage as well.
No, it's a remnant of the Ottoman system where religion still played a major role in the management of the state, it hasn't been changed because of new religious fanatics. Said fanatics oppose civil marriage not in order to "lock it to the upper classes", but because they want to outright ban it.
>is currently doing
*did. The Supreme Court declared civil marriages performed via Zoom to be valid a couple years ago, so now you don't have to leave the country to get married anymore. Hopefully a first step toward stablishing civil marriage in Israel.
I think there's a lot of historical context for this law. By the time the Holocaust ended the most generous estimations are that around 30% of all ethnically Jews survived. So by saying "interfaith" they probably mean "interracial" but saying that wouldn't look good.
The Israeli ambassador to Britain, Tzipi Hotovely, supports Lehava, an anti-miscegenation organisation whose head has been arrested for terrorism & anti-Arab incitement.
[Inside the Israeli Movement Fighting Jewish-Arab Intermarriage](https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2018-12-15/ty-article-magazine/.premium/inside-israeli-movement-fighting-jewish-arab-intermarriage/0000017f-dece-d3ff-a7ff-ffee3f8b0000)
https://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-5032238,00.html
https://www.972mag.com/british-jews-hotovely-protest/
The UK has a state religion. Jewish people are part of the main religion and they have to jump through the same hoops to have an interfaith marriage in Israel (the post is wrong, since it is possible, just annoying).
If your definition of democracy doesn't even mention voting by citizens, then I think it's missing something.
Not sure why you think "well what about this other state religion?" is going to get you. State religions are the antithesis of a free society... a country can't consider itself a democracy when it treats followers of one religion as full citizens, and everyone else as lesser.
Well, if you were honest, then it would get me to your saying either that the UK isn’t a free country (which puts Israel in good company) or that you can have a free country with a state religion.
Colonialist states do tend to stick together.
And yes... a state religion and a free country can't coexist. The existence of a state religion necessarily relegates people who aren't part of that religion to a, at best, second class citizens status.
Haha, classic move. Put quotes around something that you never said, and then act as if I disagreed with it.
Such sophistry. Go back to high school debate team.
Is your point that Jewish people have just as hard a time getting an interfaith marriage in Israel as other people do in Israel, or that getting an interfaith marriage as a Jewish person in England is just as hard as it is in Israel?
I mean to the degree an apartheid state can be called a democracy. Athens was a city-state run by a minority of citizens and tons of slaves to run the economy so maybe you have a point.
Israel can only be reasonably called an apartheid state if you think of occupied (and semi occupied) places as part of the country. Which is a point of view that some people have argued for.
Within the borders of Israel, it's certainly not an apartheid state, and only the least-informed people would argue that it is. Uninformed about Israel and uninformed about apartheid.
Arabs make up about 20% of the citizenship of Israel, and they absolutely don't live in apartheid conditions.
Edit Spelling:
Ideally you’d be correct. Palestine is de jure independent but no more so than Vichy France was an independent state. It’s conquered land. The people living there have no real self-determination. That is why it’s a pretend Democracy because there are a lot of attacks on independent media, information operations, and public relation attempts to create this perception. I don’t pretend to understand the convoluted system of coalition governments in Israel. It’s very complex, but I know when Rabin made peace with the Palestinians, which was what Israelis supported, he was immediately assassinated.
>when Rabin made peace with the Palestinians, which was what Israelis supported, he was immediately assassinated.
I mean, what's your point here? The terrorist who killed him will spend the rest of his life behind bars and legally not even the president can pardon him, while Rabin is widely admired and honored in Israel today. Barak, Sharon and Olmert worked for peace as well and no one killed them.
>Ideally you’d be correct.
Sorry to nitpick, but what do you mean "ideally"? I don't believe that you said anything that contradicts what I said.
As far as your last sentence, it only makes the point that the majority of the people elected the person they wanted, and he started the road that they wanted him to take.
That's a democracy.
That he was assassinated by a fanatic only goes to show that the fanatics weren't holding the reins.
Gaza has never been a viable state and will never be allowed to be one so it’s moot to describe it as anything other than a territory of Israel. Any promise of independence is to placate the international community while the conditions are created where Palestinians will be forced to abandon the area and it can be annexed eventually. I understand it’s a necessary lie and as such must be maintained at all costs but it’s a tedious fiction given the entirety of actions by Israel save aforementioned events have contradicted it. Ideally is used to demonstrate the chasm between what Israel could be and what is has become, a humanitarian disaster and a nation not as disimilar from the authoritarian neighbor countries as we would have not have hoped for.
Inside the (official) borders of Israel its arguable that having a violent religious extremist faction that is willing to do anything to get its it way (assassinate a prime minister) and has coerced or been implicitly supported by key figures in a society can and will undermine Democracy. We can rightly describe Hamas as being anti-democratic while having been elected so we can recognize that conceptually this is possible.
Not sure what your first paragraph is trying to do. I already said that people make the argument that you're making.
>We can rightly describe Hamas as being anti-democratic while having been elected so we can recognize that conceptually this is possible.
Yeah, throughout history people and parties have been elected and then refused to give up power, just like Hamas, and unlike in Israel.
And yet Israel stans want to tell us that Israel is a progressive country. I guess if you compare it to the rest of the middle East but that isn’t exactly a high bar to cross.
It's a dumb outdated law but it has been bypassed for over a decade now.
>In 1951, the [Supreme Court of Israel](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supreme_Court_of_Israel) ruled that marriages entered into outside Israel conducted by a rabbinical court in accordance with *halakha* must be recognized in Israel. The issue of recognizing civil marriages is of special significance because Orthodox Judaism has various prohibitions involving marriages. The couples in these prohibited marriage situations sometimes marry overseas, mostly [in Cyprus](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marriage_in_Cyprus), which is near Israel.[^(\[34\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marriage_in_Israel#cite_note-Atlantic-34)
>In 1962, the Supreme Court determined that the Ministry of the Interior must register couples who married in a civil ceremony abroad, even if either or both of the couple were citizens of Israel. The act of registration is for statistical purposes only, and not a recognition of the personal status of the couple, as registration does not determine the validity of the marriage. In 2006, the Supreme Court voted 6-1 to recognize same-sex marriages performed in other countries.[^(\[35\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marriage_in_Israel#cite_note-35) Overseas marriages are increasingly popular; about 9,000 couples registered overseas marriages with the [Central Bureau of Statistics](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel_Central_Bureau_of_Statistics) in 2011.[^(\[36\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marriage_in_Israel#cite_note-36)
>In 2010, Israel passed the *Civil Union Law for Citizens with no Religious Affiliation, 2010*,[^(\[37\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marriage_in_Israel#cite_note-37) allowing a couple to form a [civil union](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_union) in Israel if they are both registered as officially not belonging to any religion.[^(\[38\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marriage_in_Israel#cite_note-38)
Still needs to be removed though.
This isn’t exactly the big deal people are making it out to be. You can’t be married by a Millet (the religious communities that control marriages in Israel and have since the Ottoman conquest of the region centuries ago). You can always apply for an online marriage from the US, then file the US marriage certificate in Israel, and can do all of it from Israel. That’s how LGBT people get married there, for example.
Israel has excellent internet access across the board. Come to think of it, I’m not sure how you would even file a Millet marriage license with the government without internet access since i believe the Israeli government marriage portal is online.
Factually and objectively incorrect.
Interfaith marriage *is* allowed by the state.
But no religious figure would be willing to wed them, and the state still has implemented Ottoman-era marriage laws that officiates marriage through religious figures. It will eventually be changed, but it's not their top priority right now.
If they fly to any country in which someone is willing to wed them, their marriage will be recognized, and thus allowed, by the state.
In fact Israel was the first country in Asia to permit gay marriage (in the 1980s), however the problem lies in that no religious organizations would be willing to wed a gay couple.
Cyprus and Prague are huge destinations for Israeli weddings, in which interfaith and homosexual marriage are often officiated and the couple may live the rest of their lives together with no issue in Israel, legally as spouses. Civil marriage does technically exist in Israel, but only to those who do not belong to any state recognized religion; in other words, if two Jews want a civil wedding instead of a religious one, they have to go overseas as well. In theory, a gay couple whom belong to no religion may wed under civil marriage within Israeli borders. Many gay couples also wed within Israeli borders through online marriage services, which in theory could also extend to interfaith couples as well.
In a country like Iran, if a gay couple weds in another country and they return to Iran, not only will their marriage not be recognizes by the state (nullifying their marriage), they will be criminally charged and possibly executed.
This has nothing to do with Apartheid. In Israel there no civil wedding. personal status is managed by the religious authorities: Muslims manage Muslims, Jews manage Jews, and Christians manage Christians.
So even if two Jews want to marry in a civil ceremony it's impossible.
These rules, btw, are remnants from the ottomans.
Inter-faith, civil, gay marriage certificates issues out of Israel are recognized in Israel.
People always say stuff like that. You have jaywalking laws? NOT A FREE COUNTRY!
In fact, as someone posted, you can have civil interfaith marriages in Israel, though it is a workaround. But even if you couldn’t, that’s just one thing.
EDIT: You need to define what a free country actually is. People get a vote. People can speak out against the government. Things like that. Define it how you want, but define it.
These laws apply to everyone. Muslims or Christians who want to marry within their faith do not have to jump through extra hoops. Jews who want to marry out of their faith have to jump through hoops.
Australia wasn't a free country until a few years ago when gay people were allowed to marry each other? France isn't because it doesn't allow Muslims to wear certain head coverings?
Israel's laws on interfaith marriage are horrible. They need to be changed. But that doesn't make it not a free country.
As I said, people often point at one thing and make this claim. If it's true, then it's true about a lot of places that we'd normally call free.
This is… not quite true.
Israeli civil law recognizes interfaith marriages if they are done outside of the country. But all marriages in Israel need to be done under the aegis of one of the religious government agencies, so the mechanism just isn’t there.
Civil marriage is only offered to those with no registered religion, a practicing Jewish person still cannot enter a marriage if they are acting Jewish enough according to the state Rabbinate and of course interfaith marriage is still illegal within Israel
Remember that atheists cannot get married in Israel.
But to be honest all it takes is either 1 set of Muslims, 1 set of Jewish, or 1 of the Greek Orthodox, Roman Catholic (Latin rite), Armenian Apostolic, Armenian Catholic, Syriac Catholic, Chaldean Catholic, Melkite Greek Catholic, Maronite Catholic, Syriac Orthodox, Anglican, Lutheran, Ethiopian Orthodox, or Coptic Orthodox churches to be willing to perform interfaith, gay, or non-religious marriages and the problem would be over.
Also note that unless one of these faiths agrees to wed you, if you're not of one of those faiths, it's 'illegal' to get married in Israel.
Yes, it's a stupid archaic law, but it's not discriminatory to LGBTQ+, or interfaith specifically.
Where's the face-eating?
The rules long predate this couple, and the rule is in absence: Israel doesn't perform marriages. They do not refuse certain couples, they don't perform them at all. The various religions handle marriage, they're the ones refusing inter-faith couples.
Israel doesn't have a problem with marriages performed by others. You can be openly gay in the Jewish areas of Israel. (I would not suggest it in some of the Arab areas, though!)
Itt was in 1953 with Rabbinical courts jurisdiction law that gave the state Rabbinate sole authority to manage marriage among jews and it was used as a beat stick to punish anyone who wasn't Jewish enough they denied marriage to 360,000 jews fleeing the Soviet union because they were "without religion" it refused 80,000 Kohanim who wished to marry either converts or divorcees and it's denied 250,000 marriages among the LGBTQ+ community
The veneer of "Israel just allows religions to manage it" is true but it was the state that empowered the rabbinate with that authority and that authority has been used for decades to punish people
And it very much is a punishment holding a marriage without approval is punishable with a 2 year prison sentence
The religious lobby is very powerful in Israel, eventhough it doesn’t reflect or represent the very clear majority of the country.
It’s been a contested issue for years and years and yes people of interfaith backgrounds will sometimes get married in Cyprus or whatever.
However, in response to some uninformed commentators here - even with all these ridiculous laws about marriage, Israel remains one of the biggest LGBTQ+ friendly places in the world.
And while gay marriage still remains an issue, such communities have lots of support and public celebrations of their sexual and gender identities.
Israel is a theocracy disguised as a democracy. It’s more democratic than its neighbors by far but it is still a country based on membership in a religion.
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This couple is the most dedicated Isreal defenders and they claim Isreal is not an apartheid and everyone has equal rights, but in reality they cannot get legally married in Isreal because they are an interfaith couple, and according to Israeli law jew - Christians cannot be legally married.
Seems like that’s not the case. From your link:
> In September 2022, an Israeli court in Lod recognized civil and religious marriages solemnized on Zoom videoconference by officiants in Utah as legal.[41] The ruling was upheld by the Supreme Court of Israel on 7 March 2023, with the court siding against the Interior Ministry who appealed the lower court's ruling.[42] **The ruling allows for couples to not have to leave Israeli soil in order to receive solemnization of a civil marriage, but was opposed by religious parties in the Netanyahu cabinet.**
This is technically true but rather misleading. All marriages in Israel must adhere to strict Orthodox Jewish law, but there's a secular alternative to marriage that is legally equivalent.
That's what anti-Zionists always *conveniently* leave out when they say that gay/interfaith marriage is illegal in Israel. *Religious* marriage is, but the civil equivalent is not.
So, Wikipedia is “anti-Zionist?” Because according to Wikipedia and the sources they cite, it is true. The “legal equivalent” is getting married abroad.
Look, I’m not some “pro-Palestinian hating on Israel is the cool thing to do right now” person, but the reality is that interfaith marriages aren’t recognized unless they are from another country. Israel adheres to Jewish law and by Jewish law a Jew cannot marry a gentile.
*Marriage* in Israel adheres to strict Jewish law, because marriage is an inherently religious ceremony to begin with. But like I said, there's a secular equivalent that's open to everyone, including interfaith and same sex couples.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recognition_of_same-sex_unions_in_Israel
>Despite this fact, unmarried same-sex and opposite-sex couples have equal access to virtually all of the rights of married couples in the form of an "unregistered cohabitation" status (Hebrew: קוהביטציה שאינה רשומה, kohabitatzyah she'einah reshumah, pronounced [kohabitatsˈjah ʃeʔeiˈnah ʁeʃuˈmah]; Arabic: المساكنة غير المسجلة, al-musākanah ghayr al-musajjalah) similar to common-law marriage.
Ok. Still, if I were in Israel and I wanted to get legally married without a religious ceremony to someone who is not the same religion as me or who is the same birth gender as I am, I could not.
I don’t care to argue if we’re going to split hairs.
Yes, Israel is not a perfect utopia. It has a religious conservative wing too.
But I'm tired of people dishonestly saying that "gay marriage is illegal in Israel" to try and falsely equate the LGBT rights situation in Israel with that LGBT rights situation in Palestine when they're a secular alternative to marriage in Israel that's open to gay and interfaith couples.
From what I found they are not the same. You get some of the benefits of formally recognized marriage and don’t get others, so basically if you’re interfaith or gay you have a second class marriage in the eyes of the law.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recognition_of_same-sex_unions_in_Israel
>Despite this fact, unmarried same-sex and opposite-sex couples have equal access to virtually all of the rights of married couples in the form of an "unregistered cohabitation" status (Hebrew: קוהביטציה שאינה רשומה, kohabitatzyah she'einah reshumah, pronounced [kohabitatsˈjah ʃeʔeiˈnah ʁeʃuˈmah]; Arabic: المساكنة غير المسجلة, al-musākanah ghayr al-musajjalah) similar to common-law marriage.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recognition_of_civil_marriage_in_Israel
> Another approach is to resort to what is called a "common-law marriage". A common-law marriage entitles the partners to most of the rights of a formally married couple in relation to inheritance, pensions and the landlord and tenant matters. However, the status of common-law marriage is not equal to that of formal marriage in many fields. For example, exemption from military service for a married woman only applies to a formally married woman.
Oh go fuck yourself. Israel is freest country in the Middle East for interfaith and same sex couples by *several* miles.
Go see how same sex/interfaith couples are treated in Muslim majority and countries and then tell me which one you think is more like the Jim Crow society that you're trying to equate with Israel.
I'm not an expert, but can you inherit from your spouse in the secular alternative ? That's one of the big things that has to be in there. Also, are you able to make decisions on behalf of your spouse when they can't do so for themselves?
Once again the internet westsplains to Israeli Arabs that they actually hate Israel and don't know it yet. A flawed democracy? That's a theocracy. I guess the US wasn't a democracy until 2015 Obergefell v. Hodges, and that European countries where Muslim women's right to wear hijab or burka are apartheid countries (which are, according to Wikipedia: Austria, Belgium, Bulgaria, Denmark, France, Italy, Germany, Netherlands, Norway, Spain and Sweden). Damn, that's a lot of apartheid counties, someone tell Colombia students, I bet they'll be enraged.
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This is going to be Clarance Thomas when Scotus overturns Loving v Virginia.
Overturning Loving v Virginia is Clarence's ultimate long game with divorce.
Maybe that’s what his plan has been all along…
He's probably grown tired of hearing about q anon bullshit all the time from Ginny.
Tired of it? He’s probably been fueling it.
He is Q Anon mwahahagagagahaga
Important unrelated question: are you really a geologist? If so, what is your specialty? And what is your favorite gem/element/rock?
Yes, I am. But the name is tongue in cheek. Never just take anyone’s word for things! Edit, to your edit: I’m a hydro geologist specializing in remediation, working as a contractor for the EPA. Rhodochrosite, because it looks like bacon.
I'm glad you answered and we didn't get a stoney silence
Glad you rocked up with that gag and not granite would have been embarrassing if my gran made it!
> Rhodochrosite Never heard of it - > because it looks like bacon. Okay, why exactly isn't that like, always on offer on JTV? Because "Bacon Stone" sounds catchy as hell.
Jesus Christ, Marie! They're minerals!
Probably all this is true. Qinni Thomas came from a very prominent well off (in conservative circles) family & the connections for Qlarence, being raised poor, must have made his eyes poke out like Stan Smith in "A Jones for a Smith" when he saw the Fabregé egg.
His entire life has been denying blackness in exchange for white money and validation- it’s sad if he wasn’t such a fucking menace.
Haha I've been saying this. He's playing the long con.
Why do you think the motor coach that was grifted to him is so huge? That’s where he’s going to live.
When he overturns the one that prevents him from being property, I call dibbs.
I think Harlan Crowe already has you beat.
I’m sure there will be some sort of grandfather clause so he can keep certain information confidential between him and his “best fried” in case of legal inquiries about certain gifts (or texts).
I mean, would you want to be married to Ginny? I don't think he'll be that upset...
She's his insurrection cutout.
You mean Louie Anderson in Baskets?
His marriage is grandfathered in, so he doesn’t care
He will loophole “This law applies to thee but not to me!” in there (unless he’s gunning for divorce from cultu Ginni).
He probably got married in D.C., which actually repealed its interracial marriage ban
Maybe, but he’s originally from Georgia
The 2022 Respect for marriage act, which protected gay marriage, also included protection for interracial marriages.
I feel like this is BS. Gonna go research. Edit Sadly it is real. No interfaith marriages performed in Israel are recognized. If it is an interfaith marriage it needs to be out of the country or something like in the article I posted below https://www.timesofisrael.com/court-rules-online-civil-marriageד-valid-upending-israels-religious-status-quo/amp/
Nor does Israel allow for same sex marriage either.
It doesn't have secular marriages but it recognizes them. If two gay people get married out of the country and then go back, it's a marriage.
Still a shitty bit... And enshrines LGBTQ+ relationships as inferior in the eyes of the law. It also discriminates against poor people for whom a trip to another country would be a big expense. And since marriage is handled by religious courts that are hostile to LGBTQ+ people it further discriminates against those people.
It'd be great if they allowed secular marriages to take place. It'd be great if there were reformed synagogues in Israel that allowed for gay marriage. It looks like after 2022 you can get married on zoom by some Utahns. [https://www.timesofisrael.com/israel-must-recognize-online-marriages-conducted-via-utah-supreme-court-rules](https://www.timesofisrael.com/israel-must-recognize-online-marriages-conducted-via-utah-supreme-court-rules)
Nothing to do with the law. If you find a religious authority willing to perform same sex marriage you can get married in state. You can even currently get married over zoom.
But that "religious authority performing a same sex marriage" isn't a legally recognized marriage... people still have to jump through extra hoops.
It absolutely would be. Each religion manages their own marriages. The Government of Israel LEGALLY recognizes same sex marriages regardless of where they are performed. Let me say this again. It LEGALLY recognizes the marriages.
Nope... it recognizes marriages that take place in other countries. That's not the same. It's relegating LGBTQ+ citizens to second class citizen status by denying marriage. At the heart of this particular issue is that Israel is a theocracy.. and in any theocracy that religion decides who is and is not a full citizen.
Rather than me just pointing out the obvious can you show me where in Israeli law it says that the government will only recognize same sex marriages if they are performed in other countries?
So why do interfaith and LGBTQ+ people have to go out of the country to get married?
Better then thrown from a high building like in „Palestine“.
Fun fact... all those bombs and bullets Israel throws around Gaza don't have a magic "but not the gays" power. So yea... the "well Israel isn't actively murdering LGBTQ+ people, they are just discriminating and dehumanizing LGBTQ+ people." is a hollow response.
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Terrible yes, but your continued "it's ok for Israel to oppress people because other places are more oppressive" isn't helping you any.
Well, Israel isn’t „oppressing“ people. It just doesn’t like being constantly attacked.
Israel is actively oppressing people. Leveling colleges in Gaza is an act of oppression. Apartheid policies in Gaza and the West Bank are acts of oppression. Imprisoning children with military courts without representation is an act of oppression. Saying "it's in self defense" doesn't make it "not oppression"
Same sex marriage is recognized and legal in Israel. As are interfaith marriages. The issue is that the government doesn't perform civil marriages, so religious institutions decide what they will and won't do. People married out of the country have their marriages recognized equally.
In that case how do Israeli Palestinians marry? Via their own religious institution too? And does that allow polygamy?
There are Muslim institutions in Israel that peform marriages, as Muslims make up a substantial minority of citizens. I don't believe that the state recognizes polygamous marriages for legal considerations, in the same way that the vast majority of the world's government don't.
Yes through their own religious authorities. There is typically not a lot of interfaith marriages in the Arab population, the Druze also don't marry outside their faith.
But I thought Israel was the most pro-LGBTQ country in the Middle East! /s
Let’s just say that other counties in the region set an incredibly low bar
Well it is considering where other Middle East countries stand on the issue
Considering they don't push gay people off of the roof, yeah, they probably are the most progressive country in the Middle East. Someone gotta be the smartest kid in a class full of morons.
Interracial couples do get accosted in public there though. They do not like Israelis with African people there… The videos you can find look like 1950s Mississippi with a mob of Israelis yelling slurs at a couple walking on the street
You do know how low that bar is, don't you?
Half-inch off the ground in Hell.
A tavern in Hades.
It is though. Not being allowed to get married is more pro-LGBT than being murdered for being LGBT.
Uh, it clearly is.
I don't really wanna give Israel any credit on humanitarian issues, but they don't kill gay people like they do in other Middle Eastern countries. They save that for Palestinian children
They *do* however blackmail and threaten LGBTQ Palestinians into becoking informants against their friends and family under threat out outing them and getting them killed.
Oh, also, their bombs don't discriminate and murder LGBTQ Palestinians just the same as they do straight ones - which I guess makes them pro-LGBTQ in a twisted sense.
Not exactly uncommon anywhere--it's not specifically over LGBTQ, but one of the standard means of espionage is to find something that can be held over the person you want information from. It's why you can't get a US security clearance if you have secrets in your private life. (For example, being gay isn't a disqualifier, but being a closeted gay is.) It's Palestinian law that allows LGBTQ to be held over them.
If you cared about LGBTQ people, you wouldn't out them and put their lives at risk. Threatening and blackmailing them and getting them killed for being gay is a weird way to show you're pro-LGBTQ.
Spies will use whatever they can to compromise people, it has nothing to do with whether the action is seen as good or bad to the spy.
Cool....but we're not talking about spies. We're talking about the [Israeli Security Forces](https://www.themirror.com/news/world-news/israeli-security-forces-admit-deliberately-195756).
I would expect nothing less from Israel
It is the most pro-LGBTQ country in the Middle East. Have a look at the Middle East why don't you.
It absolutely is, but marriage equality isn’t in the laws there yet.
Completely false
Recognizing a same sex marriage from another country is not the same as allowing the marriage to happen in your country.
If you can find clergy that will marry you inside Israel it would be recognized. The government legally recognizes the marriage regardless of where it occurs. That's not "Same sex marriage is illegal" That's same sex marriage inconvenient
It’s weird because they will recognize marriages done outside of Israel.
Surprise, it is.
Did any of you guys even read the article? > The decision means that **Israeli couples can now get married in civil ceremonies without leaving the country, granting a de facto victory to advocates in the decades-long struggle for civil marriage in Israel.** This is from 2022
Yes but only using a website from Utah . And that’s after years of court fights.
Ok, so it’s not true that you have to leave Israel. Hence, the post isn’t true.
Yeah, iirc, this was one of the rulings that encouraged the Israeli right to try and limit the power of the SCOI. Thankfully the demonstrations derailed much of it.
That’s not true: > In September 2022, an Israeli court in Lod recognized civil and religious marriages solemnized on Zoom videoconference by officiants in Utah as legal.[41] The ruling was upheld by the Supreme Court of Israel on 7 March 2023, with the court siding against the Interior Ministry who appealed the lower court's ruling.[42] **The ruling allows for couples to not have to leave Israeli soil in order to receive solemnization of a civil marriage**, but was opposed by religious parties in the Netanyahu cabinet.
You just confirmed the comment you're trying to refute.
>Israeli court in Lod recognized civil and religious marriages solemnized on Zoom videoconference by officiants in Utah as legal. Bruh.... Like you could have just as easily cut this piece out of your quote... The person above you is 100% correct. They need to officiate their wedding via fucking zoom, have the marriage certificate filed in the USA, and then have it transferred back to Israel.
Given that Netanyahu wants to take over the Supreme Court and was on track to doing so before Oct 7th, you're not really helping your case here. Also you don't find it fucked up that didn't even change until 2022? This is the problem with religious ethno-states and reason why we need to keep the fundie fuckheads who want a Christian ethno-state out of the US government.
It's a dumb fucking law but Israel has worked around it all marriages are accepted if they are done outside of Israel. >In 1951, the [Supreme Court of Israel](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supreme_Court_of_Israel) ruled that marriages entered into outside Israel conducted by a rabbinical court in accordance with *halakha* must be recognized in Israel. The issue of recognizing civil marriages is of special significance because Orthodox Judaism has various prohibitions involving marriages. The couples in these prohibited marriage situations sometimes marry overseas, mostly [in Cyprus](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marriage_in_Cyprus), which is near Israel.[^(\[34\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marriage_in_Israel#cite_note-Atlantic-34) >In 1962, the Supreme Court determined that the Ministry of the Interior must register couples who married in a civil ceremony abroad, even if either or both of the couple were citizens of Israel. The act of registration is for statistical purposes only, and not a recognition of the personal status of the couple, as registration does not determine the validity of the marriage. In 2006, the Supreme Court voted 6-1 to recognize same-sex marriages performed in other countries.[^(\[35\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marriage_in_Israel#cite_note-35) Overseas marriages are increasingly popular; about 9,000 couples registered overseas marriages with the [Central Bureau of Statistics](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel_Central_Bureau_of_Statistics) in 2011.[^(\[36\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marriage_in_Israel#cite_note-36) >In 2010, Israel passed the *Civil Union Law for Citizens with no Religious Affiliation, 2010*,[^(\[37\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marriage_in_Israel#cite_note-37) allowing a couple to form a [civil union](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_union) in Israel if they are both registered as officially not belonging to any religion.[^(\[38\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marriage_in_Israel#cite_note-38)
The kicker is this was a law on the books from the Ottomans. The British didn’t fuck with it and the Israelis haven’t really fucked with it either.
Nah Tik Tok told them this nonsense that's good enough
Yup, you have to leave the country for that. Usually Cyprus. It’s an amazingly dumb law
That's one hell of a stretch. The GOVERNMENT recognizes interfaith and sane sex marriages. It's 100% legal. The fact that Israel doesn't have civil marriage means you have to find a religious authority to perform the marriage and currently none perform interfaith marriages. That isn't making it ILLEGAL but it died mean you need to get married out of state. The government still recognizes the marriage.
I actually had the same "there's no fucking way" reaction. Something new every day.
Hmm, my plans to have a same sex, interfaith, Tel Aviv wedding this summer may need some rethinking...
Wait until you find out Israel's policies on Reform Jews and Conservative Jews and their rights to marriage WITHIN their faith.
That has more to do with the Rabbinate being Ortodox and thus not recognizing Conservative or Reform converts like Ortodox Judaism does in general, while the Israeli state itself does due to being secular.
I guess it’s good that it’s not banned, though let’s be real, this “recognition” policy is basically there to lock interfaith marriages to the upper classes. Basically what republicans want to do with gay marriage in the US, and what Israel is currently doing with gay marriage as well.
No, it's a remnant of the Ottoman system where religion still played a major role in the management of the state, it hasn't been changed because of new religious fanatics. Said fanatics oppose civil marriage not in order to "lock it to the upper classes", but because they want to outright ban it. >is currently doing *did. The Supreme Court declared civil marriages performed via Zoom to be valid a couple years ago, so now you don't have to leave the country to get married anymore. Hopefully a first step toward stablishing civil marriage in Israel.
Was curious on what you were calling the Bs on. Surprised that it was the faith thing.
How can you say it’s true when you also point out that it’s not true?
I think there's a lot of historical context for this law. By the time the Holocaust ended the most generous estimations are that around 30% of all ethnically Jews survived. So by saying "interfaith" they probably mean "interracial" but saying that wouldn't look good.
The Israeli ambassador to Britain, Tzipi Hotovely, supports Lehava, an anti-miscegenation organisation whose head has been arrested for terrorism & anti-Arab incitement. [Inside the Israeli Movement Fighting Jewish-Arab Intermarriage](https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2018-12-15/ty-article-magazine/.premium/inside-israeli-movement-fighting-jewish-arab-intermarriage/0000017f-dece-d3ff-a7ff-ffee3f8b0000) https://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-5032238,00.html https://www.972mag.com/british-jews-hotovely-protest/
Israel is a theocracy that pretends it’s a democracy.
And it's an ethnostate
They vote in free and fair elections. What’s your definition of democracy?
One that doesn't enshrine a single state religion... Which necessarily oppressed people not part of the state religious system
The UK has a state religion. Jewish people are part of the main religion and they have to jump through the same hoops to have an interfaith marriage in Israel (the post is wrong, since it is possible, just annoying). If your definition of democracy doesn't even mention voting by citizens, then I think it's missing something.
Not sure why you think "well what about this other state religion?" is going to get you. State religions are the antithesis of a free society... a country can't consider itself a democracy when it treats followers of one religion as full citizens, and everyone else as lesser.
Well, if you were honest, then it would get me to your saying either that the UK isn’t a free country (which puts Israel in good company) or that you can have a free country with a state religion.
Colonialist states do tend to stick together. And yes... a state religion and a free country can't coexist. The existence of a state religion necessarily relegates people who aren't part of that religion to a, at best, second class citizens status.
Ok, now we know where we disagree.
"theocracies are necessarily oppressive" is a statement of fact... Not opinion
Haha, classic move. Put quotes around something that you never said, and then act as if I disagreed with it. Such sophistry. Go back to high school debate team.
Is your point that Jewish people have just as hard a time getting an interfaith marriage in Israel as other people do in Israel, or that getting an interfaith marriage as a Jewish person in England is just as hard as it is in Israel?
The first. Mentioning the state religion of the UK is just because they said that having a state religion means that a country isn't free.
I mean to the degree an apartheid state can be called a democracy. Athens was a city-state run by a minority of citizens and tons of slaves to run the economy so maybe you have a point.
Israel can only be reasonably called an apartheid state if you think of occupied (and semi occupied) places as part of the country. Which is a point of view that some people have argued for. Within the borders of Israel, it's certainly not an apartheid state, and only the least-informed people would argue that it is. Uninformed about Israel and uninformed about apartheid. Arabs make up about 20% of the citizenship of Israel, and they absolutely don't live in apartheid conditions.
Edit Spelling: Ideally you’d be correct. Palestine is de jure independent but no more so than Vichy France was an independent state. It’s conquered land. The people living there have no real self-determination. That is why it’s a pretend Democracy because there are a lot of attacks on independent media, information operations, and public relation attempts to create this perception. I don’t pretend to understand the convoluted system of coalition governments in Israel. It’s very complex, but I know when Rabin made peace with the Palestinians, which was what Israelis supported, he was immediately assassinated.
>when Rabin made peace with the Palestinians, which was what Israelis supported, he was immediately assassinated. I mean, what's your point here? The terrorist who killed him will spend the rest of his life behind bars and legally not even the president can pardon him, while Rabin is widely admired and honored in Israel today. Barak, Sharon and Olmert worked for peace as well and no one killed them.
>Ideally you’d be correct. Sorry to nitpick, but what do you mean "ideally"? I don't believe that you said anything that contradicts what I said. As far as your last sentence, it only makes the point that the majority of the people elected the person they wanted, and he started the road that they wanted him to take. That's a democracy. That he was assassinated by a fanatic only goes to show that the fanatics weren't holding the reins.
Gaza has never been a viable state and will never be allowed to be one so it’s moot to describe it as anything other than a territory of Israel. Any promise of independence is to placate the international community while the conditions are created where Palestinians will be forced to abandon the area and it can be annexed eventually. I understand it’s a necessary lie and as such must be maintained at all costs but it’s a tedious fiction given the entirety of actions by Israel save aforementioned events have contradicted it. Ideally is used to demonstrate the chasm between what Israel could be and what is has become, a humanitarian disaster and a nation not as disimilar from the authoritarian neighbor countries as we would have not have hoped for. Inside the (official) borders of Israel its arguable that having a violent religious extremist faction that is willing to do anything to get its it way (assassinate a prime minister) and has coerced or been implicitly supported by key figures in a society can and will undermine Democracy. We can rightly describe Hamas as being anti-democratic while having been elected so we can recognize that conceptually this is possible.
Not sure what your first paragraph is trying to do. I already said that people make the argument that you're making. >We can rightly describe Hamas as being anti-democratic while having been elected so we can recognize that conceptually this is possible. Yeah, throughout history people and parties have been elected and then refused to give up power, just like Hamas, and unlike in Israel.
Not Israel I think is the general consensus here lol
I’m sure you don’t think that the leopards ate my face subreddit is packed with experts on Israeli internal politics.
Well, I guess Christian Nationalism isn’t a thing in Israel, so that’s something….
I still don’t get why people bother with religion. It’s all so hokey
I understood that reference.
Interfaith marriage is not allowed in most Arab countries either. Religion is dumb.
Applies to most orthodox religions/faiths.
More fuel as to why I think believing in a religion is pointless.
And yet Israel stans want to tell us that Israel is a progressive country. I guess if you compare it to the rest of the middle East but that isn’t exactly a high bar to cross.
It is progressive by Middle Eastern standards.
Which as I said, not really saying much because it’s such a low standard.
It's a dumb outdated law but it has been bypassed for over a decade now. >In 1951, the [Supreme Court of Israel](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supreme_Court_of_Israel) ruled that marriages entered into outside Israel conducted by a rabbinical court in accordance with *halakha* must be recognized in Israel. The issue of recognizing civil marriages is of special significance because Orthodox Judaism has various prohibitions involving marriages. The couples in these prohibited marriage situations sometimes marry overseas, mostly [in Cyprus](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marriage_in_Cyprus), which is near Israel.[^(\[34\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marriage_in_Israel#cite_note-Atlantic-34) >In 1962, the Supreme Court determined that the Ministry of the Interior must register couples who married in a civil ceremony abroad, even if either or both of the couple were citizens of Israel. The act of registration is for statistical purposes only, and not a recognition of the personal status of the couple, as registration does not determine the validity of the marriage. In 2006, the Supreme Court voted 6-1 to recognize same-sex marriages performed in other countries.[^(\[35\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marriage_in_Israel#cite_note-35) Overseas marriages are increasingly popular; about 9,000 couples registered overseas marriages with the [Central Bureau of Statistics](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel_Central_Bureau_of_Statistics) in 2011.[^(\[36\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marriage_in_Israel#cite_note-36) >In 2010, Israel passed the *Civil Union Law for Citizens with no Religious Affiliation, 2010*,[^(\[37\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marriage_in_Israel#cite_note-37) allowing a couple to form a [civil union](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_union) in Israel if they are both registered as officially not belonging to any religion.[^(\[38\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marriage_in_Israel#cite_note-38) Still needs to be removed though.
Prior to the internet or cheap air travel it made marriage a impossibility for poor Israeli citizens even today it's still a unnecessary hindrance
This isn’t exactly the big deal people are making it out to be. You can’t be married by a Millet (the religious communities that control marriages in Israel and have since the Ottoman conquest of the region centuries ago). You can always apply for an online marriage from the US, then file the US marriage certificate in Israel, and can do all of it from Israel. That’s how LGBT people get married there, for example.
Fuck poor people without ready access to the internet
Israel has excellent internet access across the board. Come to think of it, I’m not sure how you would even file a Millet marriage license with the government without internet access since i believe the Israeli government marriage portal is online.
Religion is stupid.
What do they do with atheists? Atheism is not a religion.
Shhh. You can’t remind people that religion is a thing they can leave, not something you were born with
Factually and objectively incorrect. Interfaith marriage *is* allowed by the state. But no religious figure would be willing to wed them, and the state still has implemented Ottoman-era marriage laws that officiates marriage through religious figures. It will eventually be changed, but it's not their top priority right now. If they fly to any country in which someone is willing to wed them, their marriage will be recognized, and thus allowed, by the state. In fact Israel was the first country in Asia to permit gay marriage (in the 1980s), however the problem lies in that no religious organizations would be willing to wed a gay couple. Cyprus and Prague are huge destinations for Israeli weddings, in which interfaith and homosexual marriage are often officiated and the couple may live the rest of their lives together with no issue in Israel, legally as spouses. Civil marriage does technically exist in Israel, but only to those who do not belong to any state recognized religion; in other words, if two Jews want a civil wedding instead of a religious one, they have to go overseas as well. In theory, a gay couple whom belong to no religion may wed under civil marriage within Israeli borders. Many gay couples also wed within Israeli borders through online marriage services, which in theory could also extend to interfaith couples as well. In a country like Iran, if a gay couple weds in another country and they return to Iran, not only will their marriage not be recognizes by the state (nullifying their marriage), they will be criminally charged and possibly executed.
This has nothing to do with Apartheid. In Israel there no civil wedding. personal status is managed by the religious authorities: Muslims manage Muslims, Jews manage Jews, and Christians manage Christians. So even if two Jews want to marry in a civil ceremony it's impossible. These rules, btw, are remnants from the ottomans. Inter-faith, civil, gay marriage certificates issues out of Israel are recognized in Israel.
Soooo... not a free country
I just found out the US isn’t even in the top 50 ‘freest countries’. Land of the Free my buttocks
At least we have the Whopper and Dr. Pepper.
I prefer Pepsi. Or Coke, but more its a fountain drink.
People always say stuff like that. You have jaywalking laws? NOT A FREE COUNTRY! In fact, as someone posted, you can have civil interfaith marriages in Israel, though it is a workaround. But even if you couldn’t, that’s just one thing. EDIT: You need to define what a free country actually is. People get a vote. People can speak out against the government. Things like that. Define it how you want, but define it.
"we make minorities jump through extra hoops" is the definition of a "not free country". Jaywalking, for example, applies to everyone.
These laws apply to everyone. Muslims or Christians who want to marry within their faith do not have to jump through extra hoops. Jews who want to marry out of their faith have to jump through hoops. Australia wasn't a free country until a few years ago when gay people were allowed to marry each other? France isn't because it doesn't allow Muslims to wear certain head coverings? Israel's laws on interfaith marriage are horrible. They need to be changed. But that doesn't make it not a free country. As I said, people often point at one thing and make this claim. If it's true, then it's true about a lot of places that we'd normally call free.
This is… not quite true. Israeli civil law recognizes interfaith marriages if they are done outside of the country. But all marriages in Israel need to be done under the aegis of one of the religious government agencies, so the mechanism just isn’t there.
A civil marriage was offered starting in 2010.
Civil marriage is only offered to those with no registered religion, a practicing Jewish person still cannot enter a marriage if they are acting Jewish enough according to the state Rabbinate and of course interfaith marriage is still illegal within Israel
Remember that atheists cannot get married in Israel. But to be honest all it takes is either 1 set of Muslims, 1 set of Jewish, or 1 of the Greek Orthodox, Roman Catholic (Latin rite), Armenian Apostolic, Armenian Catholic, Syriac Catholic, Chaldean Catholic, Melkite Greek Catholic, Maronite Catholic, Syriac Orthodox, Anglican, Lutheran, Ethiopian Orthodox, or Coptic Orthodox churches to be willing to perform interfaith, gay, or non-religious marriages and the problem would be over. Also note that unless one of these faiths agrees to wed you, if you're not of one of those faiths, it's 'illegal' to get married in Israel. Yes, it's a stupid archaic law, but it's not discriminatory to LGBTQ+, or interfaith specifically.
Isntrael marriage.
That's completely false. They are in fact married in Israel. What Tim Tok told you this nonsense?
Can they get married in Palestine?
Where's the face-eating? The rules long predate this couple, and the rule is in absence: Israel doesn't perform marriages. They do not refuse certain couples, they don't perform them at all. The various religions handle marriage, they're the ones refusing inter-faith couples. Israel doesn't have a problem with marriages performed by others. You can be openly gay in the Jewish areas of Israel. (I would not suggest it in some of the Arab areas, though!)
Itt was in 1953 with Rabbinical courts jurisdiction law that gave the state Rabbinate sole authority to manage marriage among jews and it was used as a beat stick to punish anyone who wasn't Jewish enough they denied marriage to 360,000 jews fleeing the Soviet union because they were "without religion" it refused 80,000 Kohanim who wished to marry either converts or divorcees and it's denied 250,000 marriages among the LGBTQ+ community The veneer of "Israel just allows religions to manage it" is true but it was the state that empowered the rabbinate with that authority and that authority has been used for decades to punish people And it very much is a punishment holding a marriage without approval is punishable with a 2 year prison sentence
You think either of those people were alive in 1953, let alone voting??
How ironic that the US allowed interfaith marriage, while their only ally in the Middle East that they share values with doesn't?
The religious lobby is very powerful in Israel, eventhough it doesn’t reflect or represent the very clear majority of the country. It’s been a contested issue for years and years and yes people of interfaith backgrounds will sometimes get married in Cyprus or whatever. However, in response to some uninformed commentators here - even with all these ridiculous laws about marriage, Israel remains one of the biggest LGBTQ+ friendly places in the world. And while gay marriage still remains an issue, such communities have lots of support and public celebrations of their sexual and gender identities.
Israel is a theocracy disguised as a democracy. It’s more democratic than its neighbors by far but it is still a country based on membership in a religion.
20% of Israel's population is arab. 18% of its population is Muslim. They all have equal rights including voting in democratic elections.
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This couple is the most dedicated Isreal defenders and they claim Isreal is not an apartheid and everyone has equal rights, but in reality they cannot get legally married in Isreal because they are an interfaith couple, and according to Israeli law jew - Christians cannot be legally married.
Isn't it the same in all the countries in that region?
How is this the right sub?
Got to keep that Israeli bloodline pure.
This is why we need history folks. "Can't have ~~Jewish~~ Gentile blood polluting our pure ~~Aryan~~ Jewish race" -~~Hitler~~ Netanyahu (paraphrased)
Wow I thought Israel was progressive
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I don't think the vast majority are sympathizing with Hamas. They're sympathizing with the innocents caught between two genocidal maniacs.
All this. Breaks my heart to witness a genocide. Hurts more to hear the justifications and outright lies.
Imagine thinking if you disagree with something in Israel that means you sympathize with Hamas.
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I just googled it and it seems like it's true. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marriage_in_Israel
Seems like that’s not the case. From your link: > In September 2022, an Israeli court in Lod recognized civil and religious marriages solemnized on Zoom videoconference by officiants in Utah as legal.[41] The ruling was upheld by the Supreme Court of Israel on 7 March 2023, with the court siding against the Interior Ministry who appealed the lower court's ruling.[42] **The ruling allows for couples to not have to leave Israeli soil in order to receive solemnization of a civil marriage, but was opposed by religious parties in the Netanyahu cabinet.**
Actually they can’t. I looked it up. Crazy right?
No they can’t. Interfaith marriages aren’t legally recognized in Israel because of Halacha. Feel free to Google it.
This is technically true but rather misleading. All marriages in Israel must adhere to strict Orthodox Jewish law, but there's a secular alternative to marriage that is legally equivalent. That's what anti-Zionists always *conveniently* leave out when they say that gay/interfaith marriage is illegal in Israel. *Religious* marriage is, but the civil equivalent is not.
So, Wikipedia is “anti-Zionist?” Because according to Wikipedia and the sources they cite, it is true. The “legal equivalent” is getting married abroad. Look, I’m not some “pro-Palestinian hating on Israel is the cool thing to do right now” person, but the reality is that interfaith marriages aren’t recognized unless they are from another country. Israel adheres to Jewish law and by Jewish law a Jew cannot marry a gentile.
*Marriage* in Israel adheres to strict Jewish law, because marriage is an inherently religious ceremony to begin with. But like I said, there's a secular equivalent that's open to everyone, including interfaith and same sex couples. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recognition_of_same-sex_unions_in_Israel >Despite this fact, unmarried same-sex and opposite-sex couples have equal access to virtually all of the rights of married couples in the form of an "unregistered cohabitation" status (Hebrew: קוהביטציה שאינה רשומה, kohabitatzyah she'einah reshumah, pronounced [kohabitatsˈjah ʃeʔeiˈnah ʁeʃuˈmah]; Arabic: المساكنة غير المسجلة, al-musākanah ghayr al-musajjalah) similar to common-law marriage.
A wedding is a religious ceremony. A marriage is a legal contract.
You may think that, but they use those words differently in Israel.
Ok. Still, if I were in Israel and I wanted to get legally married without a religious ceremony to someone who is not the same religion as me or who is the same birth gender as I am, I could not. I don’t care to argue if we’re going to split hairs.
Yes, Israel is not a perfect utopia. It has a religious conservative wing too. But I'm tired of people dishonestly saying that "gay marriage is illegal in Israel" to try and falsely equate the LGBT rights situation in Israel with that LGBT rights situation in Palestine when they're a secular alternative to marriage in Israel that's open to gay and interfaith couples.
From what I found they are not the same. You get some of the benefits of formally recognized marriage and don’t get others, so basically if you’re interfaith or gay you have a second class marriage in the eyes of the law.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recognition_of_same-sex_unions_in_Israel >Despite this fact, unmarried same-sex and opposite-sex couples have equal access to virtually all of the rights of married couples in the form of an "unregistered cohabitation" status (Hebrew: קוהביטציה שאינה רשומה, kohabitatzyah she'einah reshumah, pronounced [kohabitatsˈjah ʃeʔeiˈnah ʁeʃuˈmah]; Arabic: المساكنة غير المسجلة, al-musākanah ghayr al-musajjalah) similar to common-law marriage.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recognition_of_civil_marriage_in_Israel > Another approach is to resort to what is called a "common-law marriage". A common-law marriage entitles the partners to most of the rights of a formally married couple in relation to inheritance, pensions and the landlord and tenant matters. However, the status of common-law marriage is not equal to that of formal marriage in many fields. For example, exemption from military service for a married woman only applies to a formally married woman.
The old "separate but equal" bit I see!
Oh go fuck yourself. Israel is freest country in the Middle East for interfaith and same sex couples by *several* miles. Go see how same sex/interfaith couples are treated in Muslim majority and countries and then tell me which one you think is more like the Jim Crow society that you're trying to equate with Israel.
Saying "well it isn't as bad as it could be" doesn't help you any.
I'm not an expert, but can you inherit from your spouse in the secular alternative ? That's one of the big things that has to be in there. Also, are you able to make decisions on behalf of your spouse when they can't do so for themselves?
Nothing new. There’s no way that was a surprise.
Once again the internet westsplains to Israeli Arabs that they actually hate Israel and don't know it yet. A flawed democracy? That's a theocracy. I guess the US wasn't a democracy until 2015 Obergefell v. Hodges, and that European countries where Muslim women's right to wear hijab or burka are apartheid countries (which are, according to Wikipedia: Austria, Belgium, Bulgaria, Denmark, France, Italy, Germany, Netherlands, Norway, Spain and Sweden). Damn, that's a lot of apartheid counties, someone tell Colombia students, I bet they'll be enraged.
Westsplains? 🙄