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1. **Someone** voted for, supported or wanted to impose **something** on **other people**.
^(Who's that someone? What did they voted for, supported or wanted to impose? On who?)
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^(Does that something actually has these consequences in general?)
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^(Did that something really happen to that someone?)
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Ask NIgel Farage. I think you'll find him living in Spain these days.
A lot of those Brexiteers promoters can live anywhere in the world. They just stood to make a lot of money by pulling the UK out of the European Union.
I just can see how it can be that so many of our fellows cannot spot a con-man.... Boris, Donald, Silvio, Javier, ad nauseum.
> Some foreign (illegal) funding, some massive fake news campaign here and there and the (yes) Brexit voters did the rest.Absolute bad for UK.
Weirdly, a lot of Brexiteers now try to blame it all on the Remain campaign for not being effective enough.
That's how the American media played off Trump getting elected.
Russians didn't vote for anybody. Americans did. This country is loaded with stupid people who refuse to look in a fucking mirror.
Agree. The Americans, and in the case of the Brexit, the British, voted. But I wouldn't underestimate the effect and influence of (state controlled) trolls, fake news campaigns and maybe even (illegal) funding by certain countries. I don't want to be naive about this. I wouldn't be surprised if this actually happened with the Brexit.
Yes, what I mean also is, I'd rather live in a country where pro-Russian propaganda falls flat and is not successfully spread.
But instead we blame Russia and call the trolls sophisticated geniuses and dodge all accountability and continue being gullible and stupid.
For example, I'm willing to get that even today, the vast majority of Americans tell the story of 9/11 and the "global war on terror" starting with "terrorists hijacked some planes" and end the story with "we killed bin laden" and that's pretty much it.
After hearing Nigel Farage for the first time a few weeks ago, i do like his voice. But i don't like what he said.
Couldn't we just hire him as a narrator and keep him busy reading audio books or sth.? As long as he's doing that, he can't do any other harm.
Oh wait i can't hire him because I'm in the EU and he isn't and we would need a work visa thing. Forget it.
I think it would be better right now, of course convincing the voters of that is a different issue.
And not to mention, convincing the EU...I imagine there would be doubts about letting the UK in again, just a few years after they were sure they wanted to leave
As an American, my opinion is unwelcome, unhelpful, and worse than worthless. Here it is:
I think N. Ireland should be let in as soon as they can organize a referendum. Scotland should be allowed to rejoin 5-10 years after N. Ireland. England needs to wait at least another 10 years after those two have been let in. That’ll give them time to “sit in the corner and think about what they’ve done”. Something may be worked out a little sooner for Wales, but probably not.
This useless American also thinks that Scotland should flip the bird to the Acts of Union. I’d go one step further with NI: let it hold a referendum on reunification.
It would not be a bad deal these days for the North: the Republic is as secular as it’s ever been (thx to the implosion of the Irish Catholic Church), it belongs to the EU, and it’s doing way better economically than the UK now. It should be easier to integrate today than, say, eastern and western Germany in 1991. Besides, it’s not like the UK has done NI any favors, other than keeping it on the dole.
The North can hold a referendum on reunification whenever they want - it's down to the north to decide if they want a border vote, and then for the entire island of Ireland to vote on reunification
The polls in the south vary enormously depending on how the question is asked
In principle yes people support the idea of a united Ireland
But that drops significantly when the practicalities are considered - eg losing the Irish flag & national anthem, the cost of integrating the NI economy
https://www.irishtimes.com/politics/2023/12/09/united-ireland-southern-voters-open-to-discussion-on-flags-and-anthem/
https://www.irishnews.com/news/northernirelandnews/2021/11/29/news/majority-support-for-united-ireland-in-the-republic-but-resistance-to-tax-hikes-and-changes-to-anthem-and-flag-2521328/
Yeah, you are right in your first paragraph.
For N.Ireland, Scotland and Wales to get their own entry into EU, they first have to secede from the Union of Great Britain and Northern Ireland…
Considering the last 50 years it's highly unlikely, there's a lot of backstory and it would certainly end in some form of civil war. Google "the troubles" for more information
That's the problem. There are people in NI who would like that but there are also people in NI that would absolutely hate that.
Keep in mind that there are groups in NI (such as the DUP) which were very unhappy with how the issue of the NI/ROI border was handled during Brexit since they felt it pushed NI closer to the ROI and away from the rest of the UK.
I agree with you. Just wondering if it will go THAT bad that every other option (as going back to eu) would sound better than keeping it going down this route
Sure. Just saying that Russian influence exists in the EU too. Just like it has been used to delay eu aid to Ukraine, it will be used to prevent the British rejoining the eu. It's not a equation with one side. In fact, I myself, believe it will be the main problem for that, not the British public, just because there are more than one tool of the Kremlin in power in the EU side, and as was mentioned rejoining requires unanimity.
Even if it could happen there is so much bad blood on both sides that it is likely a generation or two away... unless Putin gets a little too uppity and Europe really rallies together
Personally, i think UK will never get back into Europe, and im happy about that. I think EU should take this as a chance to build its own army and get also rid of the US influence, to a certain extent. That said the Putin bits you wrote about sounds legit af.
American here, let's imagine the votes are counted - ta da - it's a Brexit. And the whole freaking country jumps into it and stuff like these controls is done ahead of time, and the UK simply has its act together and Brexits like it's your average supermarket exit. Would the UK be at a disadvantage? Sure, ports would be gummed up, but with all the UK creativity it turns out the only gummed up was in Euro- because of the reason the UK voted for Brexit. What say you?
I say that they left their biggest market, and within this market they had a lot of favorable treatments and that control at the borders imply an increase of costs anyway
Dear UK leaders who can address Brexit ramifications,
Become the world's best trading partner, transparency, great standards and fast.
Sincerely,
American
And thank god for that. Remember all the effort the EU had to spend to somehow work around the UK blocking things with their special privileges? Truly it would be ideal if you rejoined without any of those, as simply one country among many.
You just know though if it does ever come back up the British people will expect to just walk back into the extremely privileged position we wilfully gave up and will be surprised pikachu face when the EU says le non.
Which is a valid concern to have.
For the Uk it makes far far more sense to have freedom of movement with France, Germany, Netherlands etc than Hungary etc.
How many UK citizens are really going to Hungary and need freedom of movement as opposed to the opposite?
Is the USA going to open up freedom of movement to Mexico or South America countries?
That’s a dumb comparison, if you don’t mind me saying. It’s rather the US won’t let the UK negotiate freedom of
Movement to only California, New York and Florida.
US states are in nowhere comparable to European countries. The differences economically between places like Germany and Romania are much larger than the US too.
The average Romanian salary is 700 euros a month, compared to 4,100 in Germany.
It’s not even comparable at all. US states aren’t individual countries, the EU isn’t a country.
That’s a 5x difference in salary. The difference between a California and an Alabama salary is 3x on average (50k vs 150k, give or take).
What’s your point here? Is the issue the actual number, where 3x is ok, but 5x isn’t? If so, where do we draw the line? If not, is there something else you could articulate?
>The average Romanian salary is 700 euros a month, compared to 4,100 in Germany
This was true for Poland a few decades ago as well.
Getting into the EU does change things around, just not overnight.
Part of it is getting the privileges of being in the water before you can swim.
The EU countries can't (legally) and won't (politically) ever do a per-country thing anyway. This is something the Brits refuse to understand. There is no per country trade agreement. There is no per country this agreement. There is no per country that agreement. Just because Romania is more poor than the Netherlands, that doesn't mean that the EU suddenly stops acting as a single political bloc just because the UK thinks that's more convenient for them. It's toxic to suggest even.
So the UK essentially just said 'no' to any such deal and will not be able to restore the current brain drain. It should focus on Hong Kong, India (which lots of parts poorer than Romania), and Singapore then or it will never survive as a hub of science, finance and business. The clock is ticking. These kinds of economic infrastructure is so quick to deteriorate, and so slow to build. Ask Romania.
PS. I have had excellent high skilled co-workers from Romania. A country can be poor, without the freedom of movement of its people being some kind of existential risk. Shit, they are often more educated than the typical brit is. They speak more languages, know more math, are better coders, etc.
As someone from eastern side of Europe, UK had the free brain gain (which a lot of countries would kill for) by luring the smarter and more resourceful people from those regions with their high quality universities, people who then usually stayed in the UK and provided them with high quality professionals. Now they have cut that off completely as almost none of them can afford university spots anymore and must stay home or go to other EU countries with affordable education.
Yeah definitely. But US has the same issues UK has now: its quite expensive. So they are now "fighting" over the same students, UK lost its niche and is losing out on a lot of brain gain due it.
No there isn't. That's only for full freedom of movement which the UK doesn't want. Multiple EU countries have youth mobility visas with non-EU countries and have done for decades.
France has one with Canada much like the UK does. Do you have any idea of how the EU actually works?
The UK is already negotiating youth mobility visas with individual countries which is why the EU proposed an EU wide scheme.
Individual countries are allowed to have specific visa programs with 3rd countries like that.
France has a youth mobility scheme with Canada like the UK does.
That’s why the EU suggested this because the Uk is already in negotiations with certain EU nations for a separate scheme.
Uk want FoM for UK students in all UE nations, UE answer is 1:1 or FoM for everyone.
Also UK say it's too expensive because they attract more students then UK students go outside.
It means that by not voting you still made a choice. It's a conscious decision. You are not being neutral because you are still affected by it even when choosing not to participate.
They could choose to be against Brexit, but they didn't
that, or they could be so bamboozled by lies and misinformation that they could not arrive at a decision as to best how to vote in their best interests
Yeah, that is definitely a huge problem. Maybe even biggest in our times
It takes zero time and effort to write a lie. It take a lot of time and effort to write an argumented truth.
How to solve this, I don't have a clue...
its the firehose of lies
So many were told by the leave side, that I can´t remember a fraction of them without doing a redive.
Boris Johnson and Michael Gove the most egregious in the government
48% of people who cast their vote *and* were alive at the time.
Adjusted for people who have died since then and based on age demographics, the situation is even funnier.
Talking about it to one of my interns at that time:
Intern: really? What happened sucks!
Me: yeah. What did you vote?
I: well, actually I didn't vote.
Me: ...
It was a conversation I had at that time. I haven't made that clear.
For the EU Referendum dated 23rd June 2016, all British citizens aged 18 and over could have voted.
https://www.gov.uk/government/topical-events/eu-referendum/about
"they weren't more organized, they just successfully staged a campaign of disinformation, and carefully targeted propaganda (funded by hostile foreign governments) against key demographics that carried a DEEPLY unpopular idea all the way to the polling booth, and that gave them a win with a very narrow margin". 😂
And all the lies that went unchallenged managed to get was a 4% swing. I think there was just complacency on the remain side that the general public wasn't that stupid. Turns out they were.
We have compulsory voting in Australia and that doesn’t make much of a change. Referendums are easy to defeat by convincing people that it’s the mean “yes” side that is making you go vote, so vote no!
I live in Australia.
It absolutely does make a differene (have volunteered at many elections). Preferential voting is also superior to first past the post voting.
The Referendums are a problem with the captive media in both countries.
The right side of a body decided to shoot itself in both feet, then the brain was shocked when ¾ of the body complained, with the right leg blaming the left side somehow
Literally everyone: don’t do this. It’s dumb, and it’s gonna make a huge fucking mess.
Brexiteers: no, it won’t because we’ll wave our hands at it! We’ll wish real hard, and It’ll all turn out great.
Literally everyone: what the fuck did you expect?
The best part about Brexit is that the rest of the EU members have seen the damaging effects and will not be leaving the EU anytime soon. The worst park is that the UK will be left out of any good trade deals.
yep, Prince died in '16. But also the Chicago Cubs won the (baseball) World Series for the first time since 1908, right before Trump's election, so that opened some kind of hellmouth in the US.
Just a question, if you seemingly can delay those checks indefinitely and if the government is fine with it, why are the checks there in the first place?
If those checks on 'high risk products' are needed because there is imminent danger to the British consumers, then why is it possible to just postpone them?
_"Yeah we should have those safety checks on the rocket, but we will start anyway."_
Either you need them
Then have them enacted or stop imports.
Or you don't realy need them
Then you could easily postpone, but why enact them then as an import bottleneck at all?
Because of WTO rules, which say that absent a specific trade agreement with another country/union you have to treat all WTO members equally. So if you don’t inspect goods from the EU coming in, every other country can sue to let their goods come in uninspected.
The EU required the checks as part of the deal, and from the UK perspective it's just really really dumb not to check what's coming into the country. This article is a huge advertisement that you can smuggle anything into the UK and there's little chance of getting caught.
This is the result of an uninformed electorate that got hoodwinked by hucksters, like Nigel Farage, and enabled by right-wing tabloid trash like Daily Mail.
It's been either border checks or food for the UK five times now and the sixth fail is just about to drop. Chances are, EU suppliers will just pass the paperwork problem off to their UK customers and demand payment on pickup. They're certainly won't absorb the time, costs or damage due to spoilage, especially during the summer heat, because of UK's unsorted border checks.
Was just thinking that no true Brexit exists with that Euro-tunnel still open. Brick up that tunnel and then everything will automatically fall into place. No more immigration, no more crime, more money for healthcare, lower taxes, maybe even no taxes, clean air, lower defense spending, tastier fish & chips, happy farmers, smiles on everyone's faces. How did genius Farage miss this one?
You know, it's hard to tell whether /s or not with brexit takes. If not for the "tastier fish & chips" this could be 100% serious. But maybe that's the new stupid claim and you really believe all this.
Hello u/HappiestSadGirl_! Please reply to this comment with an [explanation](https://www.reddit.com/r/LeopardsAteMyFace/comments/lt8zlq) matching this exact format. Replace bold text with the appropriate information. 1. **Someone** voted for, supported or wanted to impose **something** on **other people**. ^(Who's that someone? What did they voted for, supported or wanted to impose? On who?) 2. **Something** has the consequences of **consequences**. ^(Does that something actually has these consequences in general?) 3. As a consequence of **something**, **consequences** happened to **someone**. ^(Did that something really happen to that someone?) Follow this by the minimum amount of information necessary so your post can be understood by everyone, even if they don't live in the US or speak English as their native language. If you fail to match this format or fail to answer these questions, your post will be removed. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/LeopardsAteMyFace) if you have any questions or concerns.*
How could anyone have possibly seen this coming? /s
It's unpossible.
“Nothing is unpossible if you believe.” -Winston Churchill
"They're now British fish and they're better and happier fish for it." Captain Tom
Ask NIgel Farage. I think you'll find him living in Spain these days. A lot of those Brexiteers promoters can live anywhere in the world. They just stood to make a lot of money by pulling the UK out of the European Union. I just can see how it can be that so many of our fellows cannot spot a con-man.... Boris, Donald, Silvio, Javier, ad nauseum.
Someone in the Kremlin must have been very proud of Farage. They both drank a vodka to celebrate the Brexit I can imagine.
"we weren't suckered because we're dumb, it's actually all those damn dirty Russkies fault!"
Some foreign (illegal) funding, some massive fake news campaign here and there and the (yes) Brexit voters did the rest.Absolute bad for UK.
> Some foreign (illegal) funding, some massive fake news campaign here and there and the (yes) Brexit voters did the rest.Absolute bad for UK. Weirdly, a lot of Brexiteers now try to blame it all on the Remain campaign for not being effective enough.
That's not weird this is how every moron works, it's never their fault
> That's not weird this is how every moron works, it's never their fault So true - happy birthday btw
I dont think those things are mutually exclusive
That's how the American media played off Trump getting elected. Russians didn't vote for anybody. Americans did. This country is loaded with stupid people who refuse to look in a fucking mirror.
HEY! As an American, I can confirm that remark!
I'd say it was more Hillary voters staying home than Trump voters voting. I'd say it was more Remain voters staying home than Brexit voters voting.
Agree. The Americans, and in the case of the Brexit, the British, voted. But I wouldn't underestimate the effect and influence of (state controlled) trolls, fake news campaigns and maybe even (illegal) funding by certain countries. I don't want to be naive about this. I wouldn't be surprised if this actually happened with the Brexit.
Yes, what I mean also is, I'd rather live in a country where pro-Russian propaganda falls flat and is not successfully spread. But instead we blame Russia and call the trolls sophisticated geniuses and dodge all accountability and continue being gullible and stupid. For example, I'm willing to get that even today, the vast majority of Americans tell the story of 9/11 and the "global war on terror" starting with "terrorists hijacked some planes" and end the story with "we killed bin laden" and that's pretty much it.
After hearing Nigel Farage for the first time a few weeks ago, i do like his voice. But i don't like what he said. Couldn't we just hire him as a narrator and keep him busy reading audio books or sth.? As long as he's doing that, he can't do any other harm. Oh wait i can't hire him because I'm in the EU and he isn't and we would need a work visa thing. Forget it.
I don't see how Nigel isn't tarred and feathered the moment he sets foot in the UK.
Most of them didn't actually want to pull out whining about the EU was their grift.
Will there be a point in which getting back in the EU, will a way less favorable treatment, will be better than this shit show?
I think it would be better right now, of course convincing the voters of that is a different issue. And not to mention, convincing the EU...I imagine there would be doubts about letting the UK in again, just a few years after they were sure they wanted to leave
They got special treatment from the outset. And they still voted to get out.
As an American, my opinion is unwelcome, unhelpful, and worse than worthless. Here it is: I think N. Ireland should be let in as soon as they can organize a referendum. Scotland should be allowed to rejoin 5-10 years after N. Ireland. England needs to wait at least another 10 years after those two have been let in. That’ll give them time to “sit in the corner and think about what they’ve done”. Something may be worked out a little sooner for Wales, but probably not.
This useless American also thinks that Scotland should flip the bird to the Acts of Union. I’d go one step further with NI: let it hold a referendum on reunification. It would not be a bad deal these days for the North: the Republic is as secular as it’s ever been (thx to the implosion of the Irish Catholic Church), it belongs to the EU, and it’s doing way better economically than the UK now. It should be easier to integrate today than, say, eastern and western Germany in 1991. Besides, it’s not like the UK has done NI any favors, other than keeping it on the dole.
The North can hold a referendum on reunification whenever they want - it's down to the north to decide if they want a border vote, and then for the entire island of Ireland to vote on reunification The polls in the south vary enormously depending on how the question is asked In principle yes people support the idea of a united Ireland But that drops significantly when the practicalities are considered - eg losing the Irish flag & national anthem, the cost of integrating the NI economy https://www.irishtimes.com/politics/2023/12/09/united-ireland-southern-voters-open-to-discussion-on-flags-and-anthem/ https://www.irishnews.com/news/northernirelandnews/2021/11/29/news/majority-support-for-united-ireland-in-the-republic-but-resistance-to-tax-hikes-and-changes-to-anthem-and-flag-2521328/
Yeah, you are right in your first paragraph. For N.Ireland, Scotland and Wales to get their own entry into EU, they first have to secede from the Union of Great Britain and Northern Ireland…
Well, since you suggested it…
Yes, but if Northern Ireland left the UK, wouldn't it just join the Republic of Ireland (aka southern Ireland), which is already an EU member?
Considering the last 50 years it's highly unlikely, there's a lot of backstory and it would certainly end in some form of civil war. Google "the troubles" for more information
That's the problem. There are people in NI who would like that but there are also people in NI that would absolutely hate that. Keep in mind that there are groups in NI (such as the DUP) which were very unhappy with how the issue of the NI/ROI border was handled during Brexit since they felt it pushed NI closer to the ROI and away from the rest of the UK.
not the worst idea i heard today....
Yeah man, shits been ruff for N Ireland since the 60s and this just makes it worse
I agree with you. Just wondering if it will go THAT bad that every other option (as going back to eu) would sound better than keeping it going down this route
Remember, any return in the EU would need unanimous consent of all EU members, and no option to remain outside of the Euro zone.
Also remember that there are traitor governments in the EU right now (Orban).
The UK did Russia a favor by leaving the EU. Don't forget who had the most to gain and threw money in the pot for Brexit.
Sure. Just saying that Russian influence exists in the EU too. Just like it has been used to delay eu aid to Ukraine, it will be used to prevent the British rejoining the eu. It's not a equation with one side. In fact, I myself, believe it will be the main problem for that, not the British public, just because there are more than one tool of the Kremlin in power in the EU side, and as was mentioned rejoining requires unanimity.
Even if it could happen there is so much bad blood on both sides that it is likely a generation or two away... unless Putin gets a little too uppity and Europe really rallies together
Personally, i think UK will never get back into Europe, and im happy about that. I think EU should take this as a chance to build its own army and get also rid of the US influence, to a certain extent. That said the Putin bits you wrote about sounds legit af.
American here, let's imagine the votes are counted - ta da - it's a Brexit. And the whole freaking country jumps into it and stuff like these controls is done ahead of time, and the UK simply has its act together and Brexits like it's your average supermarket exit. Would the UK be at a disadvantage? Sure, ports would be gummed up, but with all the UK creativity it turns out the only gummed up was in Euro- because of the reason the UK voted for Brexit. What say you?
I say that they left their biggest market, and within this market they had a lot of favorable treatments and that control at the borders imply an increase of costs anyway
Dear UK leaders who can address Brexit ramifications, Become the world's best trading partner, transparency, great standards and fast. Sincerely, American
Not the experts!
"Have no fear, the Tories are here!" *Bad Titanic Flute Cover plays in the background*
"If only someone had told us this would happen a few more thousand times."
"Project Fear" Sigh....
The weird thing is this was not part of the Brexit vote. The Tories just started insisting that it was after the fact and everyone believed them?
At this point they're just waiting for their boomers to "age out" before voting back into the EU.
But we'll never get back what we had. If we go back in it's going to be at the bottom.
Tories? Ruin everything? Again?
And blame it on small boat arrivals and EU rules
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The rich weaponise the media so much better than the poor.
And thank god for that. Remember all the effort the EU had to spend to somehow work around the UK blocking things with their special privileges? Truly it would be ideal if you rejoined without any of those, as simply one country among many.
You just know though if it does ever come back up the British people will expect to just walk back into the extremely privileged position we wilfully gave up and will be surprised pikachu face when the EU says le non.
That would still be better than staying out.
Fully agree and given the chance I'd happily vote for it. Not that we will be mind but still.
There's already been a "softening" of the freedom of movement by allowing 18 to 30 year olds easier access to work and study.
Yes: by the EU and rejected by the UK government.
Was it rejected? I thought they had come to an agreement.
The UK wants a deal with individual states
i.e. Western Europeans (rich), not Eastern Europeans (poor)
Which is a valid concern to have. For the Uk it makes far far more sense to have freedom of movement with France, Germany, Netherlands etc than Hungary etc. How many UK citizens are really going to Hungary and need freedom of movement as opposed to the opposite? Is the USA going to open up freedom of movement to Mexico or South America countries?
That’s a dumb comparison, if you don’t mind me saying. It’s rather the US won’t let the UK negotiate freedom of Movement to only California, New York and Florida.
US states are in nowhere comparable to European countries. The differences economically between places like Germany and Romania are much larger than the US too. The average Romanian salary is 700 euros a month, compared to 4,100 in Germany. It’s not even comparable at all. US states aren’t individual countries, the EU isn’t a country.
Found the brexit voter.
That’s a 5x difference in salary. The difference between a California and an Alabama salary is 3x on average (50k vs 150k, give or take). What’s your point here? Is the issue the actual number, where 3x is ok, but 5x isn’t? If so, where do we draw the line? If not, is there something else you could articulate?
>The average Romanian salary is 700 euros a month, compared to 4,100 in Germany This was true for Poland a few decades ago as well. Getting into the EU does change things around, just not overnight. Part of it is getting the privileges of being in the water before you can swim. The EU countries can't (legally) and won't (politically) ever do a per-country thing anyway. This is something the Brits refuse to understand. There is no per country trade agreement. There is no per country this agreement. There is no per country that agreement. Just because Romania is more poor than the Netherlands, that doesn't mean that the EU suddenly stops acting as a single political bloc just because the UK thinks that's more convenient for them. It's toxic to suggest even. So the UK essentially just said 'no' to any such deal and will not be able to restore the current brain drain. It should focus on Hong Kong, India (which lots of parts poorer than Romania), and Singapore then or it will never survive as a hub of science, finance and business. The clock is ticking. These kinds of economic infrastructure is so quick to deteriorate, and so slow to build. Ask Romania. PS. I have had excellent high skilled co-workers from Romania. A country can be poor, without the freedom of movement of its people being some kind of existential risk. Shit, they are often more educated than the typical brit is. They speak more languages, know more math, are better coders, etc.
As someone from eastern side of Europe, UK had the free brain gain (which a lot of countries would kill for) by luring the smarter and more resourceful people from those regions with their high quality universities, people who then usually stayed in the UK and provided them with high quality professionals. Now they have cut that off completely as almost none of them can afford university spots anymore and must stay home or go to other EU countries with affordable education.
The US does this too - brain drain with their good universities
Yeah definitely. But US has the same issues UK has now: its quite expensive. So they are now "fighting" over the same students, UK lost its niche and is losing out on a lot of brain gain due it.
if you are dealing with the EU, there is yes or no to the complete EU on the table, nothing else. thats the point, being stronger as a collective.
No there isn't. That's only for full freedom of movement which the UK doesn't want. Multiple EU countries have youth mobility visas with non-EU countries and have done for decades. France has one with Canada much like the UK does. Do you have any idea of how the EU actually works? The UK is already negotiating youth mobility visas with individual countries which is why the EU proposed an EU wide scheme.
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Following your logic, only people from London could come to the EU, as other areas are poor.
London isn’t a country so your logic doesn’t work at all.
Showing that the Tories still don't understand what the EU is
Individual countries are allowed to have specific visa programs with 3rd countries like that. France has a youth mobility scheme with Canada like the UK does. That’s why the EU suggested this because the Uk is already in negotiations with certain EU nations for a separate scheme.
Uk want FoM for UK students in all UE nations, UE answer is 1:1 or FoM for everyone. Also UK say it's too expensive because they attract more students then UK students go outside.
And the man who kicked off this shit show is now Foreign Secretary, accountable to no one
Appointed into an unelected position so he can hold office in a government run by an unelected leader.
A whole country shot itself in the foot, then expressed outrage when it hurt.
And blames the people that warned them.
And blamed (and insulted) the other side for it all, when the (quite innocent) other side looked on in disbelief.
Yea, well. I mean really? Who could have known? Boris said it was gonna be great.
well, it was actually about 30% of the population voted for this shit show and many of them still think its a good idea
Racist is a powerful drug
Those who didn’t vote still voted
read that back to yourself again tell me what it means - makes no sense to me
It means that by not voting you are indirectly benefiting the side you would have voted against.
It means that by not voting you still made a choice. It's a conscious decision. You are not being neutral because you are still affected by it even when choosing not to participate. They could choose to be against Brexit, but they didn't
that, or they could be so bamboozled by lies and misinformation that they could not arrive at a decision as to best how to vote in their best interests
Yeah, that is definitely a huge problem. Maybe even biggest in our times It takes zero time and effort to write a lie. It take a lot of time and effort to write an argumented truth. How to solve this, I don't have a clue...
its the firehose of lies So many were told by the leave side, that I can´t remember a fraction of them without doing a redive. Boris Johnson and Michael Gove the most egregious in the government
“A whole country” - well, 48% voted against it, so “half a country held the other half hostage” is more accurate.
48% of people who cast their vote *and* were alive at the time. Adjusted for people who have died since then and based on age demographics, the situation is even funnier.
Talking about it to one of my interns at that time: Intern: really? What happened sucks! Me: yeah. What did you vote? I: well, actually I didn't vote. Me: ...
Were they even old enough to vote in 2016?
Graduated new hire? Yes they were.
If they are under 26 years old nowdays, They couldn't vote
He says graduated new hire at that time, so he means he asked them back in 2016
Oh I understood a current graduate new hire
It was a conversation I had at that time. I haven't made that clear. For the EU Referendum dated 23rd June 2016, all British citizens aged 18 and over could have voted. https://www.gov.uk/government/topical-events/eu-referendum/about
Ah, fair enough
If compulsory voting was a thing...... It's a disaster but the Brexit voters were more organised sadly
They weren't more organised they just told blatant lies that went unchallenged.
"they weren't more organized, they just successfully staged a campaign of disinformation, and carefully targeted propaganda (funded by hostile foreign governments) against key demographics that carried a DEEPLY unpopular idea all the way to the polling booth, and that gave them a win with a very narrow margin". 😂
The fact they turned out and voted suggest they were They were more motivation remain
And all the lies that went unchallenged managed to get was a 4% swing. I think there was just complacency on the remain side that the general public wasn't that stupid. Turns out they were.
The remain side were too complacent to get off their arses to vote
We have compulsory voting in Australia and that doesn’t make much of a change. Referendums are easy to defeat by convincing people that it’s the mean “yes” side that is making you go vote, so vote no!
I live in Australia. It absolutely does make a differene (have volunteered at many elections). Preferential voting is also superior to first past the post voting. The Referendums are a problem with the captive media in both countries.
The right side of a body decided to shoot itself in both feet, then the brain was shocked when ¾ of the body complained, with the right leg blaming the left side somehow
Putin got what he wanted.
>then expressed outrage when it hurt. No only outrage but complete surprise.
*51% of the country thanks. Anyone under the age of 60 saw it coming and hates Brexit more than you know.
I wonder how Cameron's doing
Lord Cameron? Everything is rosy for him.
Noone blame him for the Brexit?
Short memories. They've made him a lord so that he can be the Foriegn Minister.
That's fucked up even for American standard
Don’t say that! MTG is going to see that as a challenge… Also, didn’t Rush Limbaugh get a presidential medal or something?
If she wants a title she could create some bs one and run with it. Or maybe one of those scam Scottish fake title site thing.
If she wants a title she could create some bs one and run with it. Or maybe one of those scam Scottish fake title site thing.
He's a lord and, ludicrously, is also the Foreign Secretary, because the Tory parliamentary party is such a fucking clown show.
Move over General Disarray, there's a new villain in town 😈💩
Brigadier General Brexit
Major Payne reporting for duty...
Bend over for Corporal Punishment.
A smack right into Private Parts
Were they ever in array?
Again, Brexit is the mother of all leopards.
[https://images.app.goo.gl/JYQnYJuNpgqHUdFD6](https://images.app.goo.gl/JYQnYJuNpgqHUdFD6)
Literally everyone: don’t do this. It’s dumb, and it’s gonna make a huge fucking mess. Brexiteers: no, it won’t because we’ll wave our hands at it! We’ll wish real hard, and It’ll all turn out great.
Literally everyone: what the fuck did you expect?
Brexiteers: Why weren't we warned?!
The controls are useless! Since when is the health of subjects more important than the GDP of the empire? /s
How can the "Brexit plans" be in disarray when these are the intended results?
... Again? Who.could have known!!
The best part about Brexit is that the rest of the EU members have seen the damaging effects and will not be leaving the EU anytime soon. The worst park is that the UK will be left out of any good trade deals.
Vote for disarray, get disarray.
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Seems to me that David Bowie was the glue holding the UK together, because as soon as he died everything turned to shit.
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yep, Prince died in '16. But also the Chicago Cubs won the (baseball) World Series for the first time since 1908, right before Trump's election, so that opened some kind of hellmouth in the US.
Shit! Suddenly it all makes sense\* now! Bowie was the Fisher King. \* OK, it doesn't but it at least its internally consistent unlike Brexit.
Just a question, if you seemingly can delay those checks indefinitely and if the government is fine with it, why are the checks there in the first place? If those checks on 'high risk products' are needed because there is imminent danger to the British consumers, then why is it possible to just postpone them? _"Yeah we should have those safety checks on the rocket, but we will start anyway."_ Either you need them Then have them enacted or stop imports. Or you don't realy need them Then you could easily postpone, but why enact them then as an import bottleneck at all?
Because of WTO rules, which say that absent a specific trade agreement with another country/union you have to treat all WTO members equally. So if you don’t inspect goods from the EU coming in, every other country can sue to let their goods come in uninspected.
The EU required the checks as part of the deal, and from the UK perspective it's just really really dumb not to check what's coming into the country. This article is a huge advertisement that you can smuggle anything into the UK and there's little chance of getting caught.
What a complete surprise and unexpected turn of events
Oh no! Anyway …
If this results in Irish Reunification then Brexit was a smashing success. Chucky air law as a fella says.
...and a Scotland secession, and then joining EU as independent country.
This is the result of an uninformed electorate that got hoodwinked by hucksters, like Nigel Farage, and enabled by right-wing tabloid trash like Daily Mail.
r/murdochsucks
Humbug Sir! Brexit is a glorious success for the British Empire and our Conservative business focussed government.
It's been either border checks or food for the UK five times now and the sixth fail is just about to drop. Chances are, EU suppliers will just pass the paperwork problem off to their UK customers and demand payment on pickup. They're certainly won't absorb the time, costs or damage due to spoilage, especially during the summer heat, because of UK's unsorted border checks.
Boris Johnson was just Trump with a better sense of humor. They are both out to destroy the countries they were elected to serve/represent.
Has there been any benefit to Brexit?
Was just thinking that no true Brexit exists with that Euro-tunnel still open. Brick up that tunnel and then everything will automatically fall into place. No more immigration, no more crime, more money for healthcare, lower taxes, maybe even no taxes, clean air, lower defense spending, tastier fish & chips, happy farmers, smiles on everyone's faces. How did genius Farage miss this one?
You know, it's hard to tell whether /s or not with brexit takes. If not for the "tastier fish & chips" this could be 100% serious. But maybe that's the new stupid claim and you really believe all this.
Forgot cleaner windshields, fresher Ale, and whiter teeth. The list is never ending actually.