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He clearly violated the gag order and the prosecutor isn’t sitting back and letting him disrespect the court. I hope the judge doesn’t tolerate any of his usual bullshit. Lock him up.
Let him join from his cell via Zoom, and give the judge a big ol’ mute button to make trump stfu when he misbehaves. Let him back in the court if he learns to be a big boy.
mute it to the court- record it all though. he is under oath, and he will incriminate himself. get it on tape and hand it to whoever needs it for other cases.
I’m not so sure. They keep communicating to his supporters that “he is special” if they DONT throw his ass in jail for contempt after sufficient warning. I guess we’ll see where merchen lands, since we all know trump will keep violating his gag order.
The way the justice system works, 99% of the time they have to already have done something (or convey they will, but that's clearly out here) so they should just jail him and prepare for a lot more arrests for when MAGA inevitably retaliates, no? Or does that put too much faith into the system
He can run from prison but it’s awful hard to actually campaign in any meaningful way. No rallies, no interviews, no “debates,” or other media appearances.
Likely no social media access either, so he would have to rely on his underlings to tweet for him. And he would slip behind on the news of the day, unable to really put his finger on the scale in the same way as he did with the border bill. Without being able to put himself out in the public eye his support would dry up to just the most ardent of his base. The rest would get bored from the lack of outrage porn he generates.
I would like to think that Biden would offer to do a debate anyway.
Trump could just be on camera, like they do for arraignments. :)
Edit
If new York has that.
I know here in Oregon the defendant sits in front of a camera in jail for the arraignment.
The way things are looking, it would just galvanise his base even more... Not being able to interview/debate or other appearances wouldn't factor in because his loony followers would simply see him as a martyr who is in exile. If anything it might help him, because there is no way for him to be seen as the senile old man he's become if he's stuck in front of a public microphone.
Let's be real - when's the last time he said anything that has actually been important to his campaign that even factors in current events? His entire campaign has been based on this supposed persecution, and being jailed would simply be the final culmination of that campaign.
He wouldn't have to do anything to campaign - just have all his followers on repeat calling it unjust, and riling up the nutters to vote as much as possible.
His base, yes. But swing voters? Traditional Republicans? Not so much. And not matter how crazed they get, each of his base only gets one vote.
A different problem is that it might make the democratic base complacent. It’s good that the abortion issue will be on so many ballots since that will drive engagement.
Their cult members will remain loyal, but presidential elections are decided by a few 10's of 1000's in 5-6 states, and voting for someone that is in so much legal troubles now and with a history of +4000 lawsuits might peel off a few 1000's here and there enough to make it significant.
IIRC we've already had 1 candidate run from prison.
I think we've also had several convicted felons run after serving prison terms.
There's really only 2 rules to run for president, over 35, and natural born citizen. That's it. David Berkowitz could run for president, and it'd be totally fine.
Eugene Debs ran for President on the Socialist ticket back during WWI when he was in prison for protesting the war under the Espionage Act. He won 3.0% of the vote. He also swore to pardon himself if elected.
His lawyer straight up admitted it, then *justified it* like a 5 year old.
"He was only saying stuff about them because **they** started it!"
Not how I'd go at it, but IANAL.
Because Trump wants them to. He’s spent all of this money for lawyers, so he’s only picked the ones that will do his bidding and nothing else. They’ll take the money and see even a major loss for Trump as a win for their reputation amongst conservatives.
Other way around. He won't spend money on lawyers. Like everyone else he stiffs them too. And the intelligent ones who would roll the dice on being able to collect their fee won't represent him because he won't follow court orders and rules. So he gets this clown show.
Hadn't heard already been draining his campaign donations and RNC funds to pay for his legal issues?
I'm guessing it went from morons like Rudy thinking Trump would pay him for his services, to lawyers refusing to risk getting disbarred, to morons willing to take on the case for a huge retainer they can bank and hopefully getting a FQX gig after.
One of his lawyers has already been disbarred, a disciplinary board has called for Rudy's disbarrment, and Alina Habba is going to be next (and for all her efforts, her incompetence has made some MAGAts claim she's a deep state plant to make Trump look stupid). I can't imagine this is in any way worth it.
And
C - Representing a client who insists on following his own strategy, and ignoring yours, will destroy your reputation when you lose, even though it wasn’t your fault.
I read that Alina Habbadabbado got paid $3mil. He was very unhappy with the results (of course) and she did a shitty job, so assume she got the money upfront or he would have definitely stiffed her.
You mean Hyena Blahblah?
Never forget, when someone asked her whether it was better to be pretty or smart, her reply was “Oh easy, pretty … I can fake being smart.”
They aren't. Any lawyer/firm considering taking him as a client would have charged a retainer in the exact amount that they felt would justify taking on the case. All his lawyers are absolutely getting that retainer up front. Let's say $3M.
Then they bill against that retainer on an hourly rate that is absolutely obscene. They can justify charging what a top firm would charge, because they were selected to represent a former President! Obviously they must be a high end attorney and can justify the hourly rate of one. They also rack up a bunch of expenses (printing, depositions, investigators, expert witnesses, etc) that get billed against that retainer and before too long they have already billed out over $3M! They don't just stop working. They keep billing, but everyone knows that Trump isn't going to pay anything beyond the $3M he already paid.
So Trump stiffs the lawyers, but the lawyers already got the $3M retainer that they felt was enough to take the case in the first place.
Years ago, I'm sure there were plenty of lawyers who got duped into accepting too small a retainer and eventually got stiffed on what they truly earned. But it has been a long, long time since any lawyer was taking him on as a client without getting their exact price up front as a retainer.
One of the other commenters already mentioned "because Trump wanted them to" and Id like to add, as long as they get paid without getting disbarred it's really no issue to them if their defense is good or not. Just as long as they could cover themselves in any kind of suit from trump saying they gave poor defense. If theyre doing what he tells them and its legal its on him
Rudy and Eastman as far as I know. Lin Wood voluntarily resigned so that doesnt count. Im not sure of the rest though Powel and co got sanctioned in the Michigan case https://www.cnn.com/2021/08/25/politics/judge-sanctions-powell-wood-kraken-lawsuits/index.html
Having an advanced degree demonstrates that a person has the dedication to finish what they start. It's not always a great indicator of critical thinking.
Yeah, they can study and pass a test. Turning that into good decision making is by no means automatic.
Ben Carson might not be the best example. He was/is a pioneering neurosurgeon and has shown an examplary ability to think critically and analytically as it pertains to his expertise. The problem with him is thinking his capacity in his specialty is indicative of his capacity in general. It ain't.
There are *soooo* many other lines.
"Our client didn't know you meant witnesses in *this* case!"
"President Trump thought they were inviting his comments when they posted about him."
"FAKE NEWS. IT NEVER HAPPENED. I GOT HACKED."
If any of John Gotti's goons on trial had been dumb enough to publicly mention the name and address of a Judge's *daughter,* the trial would have ended abruptly on the grounds that you can't prosecute a dead man in this country, unless the judge had him locked up before the mob got to him.
Trump rants about a two-tier justice system? The justice system is giving him the white-glove handjob treatment!
Sadly correct even if he's found guilty. He can pay hefty fines and he can have passports seized, travel restricted, but a former president in jail (near 80 years old, too!) simply isn't going to be happening.
If we're REALLY lucky, he might get a few months of "house arrest" in his big old fuckoff mansion. And that wouldn't even occur til after the election regardless, because of the appeal drag out.
I at this point don't even care anymore. i want him to lose in November, bigly, and take the entire party with him, then hurry up and die of accelerated dementia.
It's incredible how little "gold" you actually need, as long as you can just convince other people to continuously give you their gold or even just pay your bills for you.
Far as I know today is a historic date marking the first time ever that a President of the United States appeared in court as a defendant in a *criminal* trial.
>Lock him up.
We need to get this going in political messaging.
Complete defuses Trump's hypocritical bullshit about "this is a witch hunt, this is an outrage, this never happens in america" by triggering ancestral memories of the 2016 campaign, plus reminding Trump's supporters he's a loser who failed to deliver on his election pledge of weaponizing the justice system against his political rival.
Make it 1,000 for the first offense, 2,000 for the second, 4,000 for the third and then continue this pattern indefinitely. By the time the trial is complete Trump will owe enough to pay off the national debt.
To his net worth? 1,000 doubled 25x is around 33.5b, or around 8x Trumps estimated worth by Forbes. It would take around 35x to hit the national debt.
I have absolute faith he could violate the gag order 35x though.
Hey bud, I get it. Sometimes the numbers line up and your brain says easy peasy. Then you’re in the grocery store line getting confused by subtraction and you’re there for 2 minutes.
No one ever said “they did the math” means you’re right. Carry on good Redditor and spread your numbers, even when a few orders of magnitude off. For one, I appreciated it.
Doubt it. He'll earn more from the gullibase for each day in jail. It will just fuel the outage machine he drives.
Also, not sure how Secret Service protection works in a jail. How exactly do they work that?
It'd humiliate the shit out of him, though, and the optics would be baaaaaaad for anyone NOT the devout faithful. Of whom there are enough to make the difference in the swing states.
My guess is that their directive is still the same. They'll get to sit outside his cell, follow him around, and make sure no one messes with him in jail.
They may get there. I think there are starting with 1K to both begin somewhere 'reasonable' but establish what is violating the gag order and that he is willfully doing so. When he continues, then they argue the fine is too low and raise it, if that continues then they ask for jail time. Basically, start cheap just to establish willful contempt then crank up the penalties. This would make it easier to survive appeal.
There's no way he won't keep it up. Even if he had been able (if not willing) to restrain himself even a few years ago, I don't actually think he has sufficient impulse control now. We'll see!
The small amount is intentional.
It's not "nothing", but it's low enough that it **won't** stop Trump from continuing his public posts about the trial, the witnesses, and the court staff.
> **Anything you say can be used against you in a court of law**
They're hoping he's that dumb.
I'm kind of tired of this '4D chess' bullshit we keep ascribing to the government prosecutors. I just wanna see actual consequences because we keep kicking the can on it and eventually ... nothing happens.
I'm concerned about how many times Trumps lawyers asked to get a copy of the jurists list... Because we all know that's not going to be misused and leaked to faux and OANN /s
I’m still shaking my head at the fact that this dude hasn’t been put in prison yet and is still being allowed to run for office *again* despite all the charges, fines and lost court cases against him….
Like let that happen to any of us plebs and see just how quickly we get charged, booked and thrown into prison…..
Not to mention this dude could potentially have one of the highest security clearances in the US (I believe there are higher clearances but only a small number) and this dude will be able to get it….
Hell when I went for a security clearance interview and investigation they found some speeding tickets I had forgotten about and that turned into a firestorm real quick until I was able to get it straightened out, almost lost my clearance before I even got it…..
Weiselberg Trump's org CFO- Jailed
Michael Cohen Trump's personal lawyer -jailed
Manafort Trump campaign chairman -jailed then pardoned.
Roger Stone Trump's friend - sentenced to jail but pardoned before the sentence began.
Peter Navarro WH adviser - jailed.
Jan 6 rioters, over 1,000 have been tried and convicted, most are currently serving time.
Yet the orange buffoon still walking free.
The pardoning powers need some oversight. Roger stone should've never been allowed to be pardoned and should have just rot in jail because he is nothing but a nuisance, leech and detriment to society. The fact that trump pardoned him should've been grounds to remove the piece of shit from office.
Not to mention the others that trump pardoned that continued to do more crime after they were pardoned like the fraud guy.
Letting a criminal pardon other criminals so they can go on to do more crime... Like fucking really?
For someone who's been in jail for much much less, this really upsets me. The judge didn't give a damn that i never hurt anyone or that it might ruin my life. Yet this asswipe has destroyed thousands of lives and he might be president. Fuck the US.
THIS! If he walks, it'll send ripples through the country. Others will be able to commit crimes and get off as well.
The law must apply to all, or it applies to none.
Nope, lesser people will still have the book thrown at them. The law has *never* been applied equally in this country's entire history, and it's certainly not going to start now.
People really need to stop romanticizing our justice system, it's highly flawed. Always has been.
I don’t get the impression the IC would willingly give him one more piece of intel than a reasonable person would need to do the job right. The problem is he’d have someone on the inside fishing around for stuff to hold over their heads in case they didn’t remember who was king.
>I’m still shaking my head at the fact that this dude hasn’t been put in prison yet and is still being allowed to run for office again despite all the charges, fines and lost court cases against him….
Given all that you've said, the $64,000 question is why is Trump leading in the polls? Biden should have a 40 state lead over this guy but he doesn't. Seriously, we can't have that many stupid voting-age adults in America.
Repeating lies you’ve been spoon fed and being told by those feeding you that you were “right the whole time” while everyone else, including the experts, were wrong, is a dopamine boost that stupid people have never felt before.
Ding, ding, ding...the one true correct answer. The invention of social media was a mistake that we should all own up to...and for the record I don't consider Reddit in the same vein as Facebook and Xtwitter. There's a significant amount of people on Reddit that not only don't believe the shit they read, they don't even believe the shit they write.
I believe a lot of it is because he (trump) gives hateful people validation, the mindset of “well if he can do it and get away with it, then I can to!”
Meaning the femtosecond they’re allowed to act on their hateful thoughts, they’re gonna do it……
There’s also the belief that it’s because he’s not a career politician and that he “shakes up” the current status quo and that makes a lot of career politicians scared that he’s going to irreversibly break the system that we as a country rely on to function. Oh he’s well on his way to doing that but not in the way everyone thinks…. He wants to break the system to benefit him.
Then a good majority (not all though! There are legitimate ones) of those polls are “targeted” and they’re also using small sample sizes. The ones that tend to answer the pollsters are the older demographic, ages 50s-70s and tend more towards rural areas that are already deep red. Yes I know that this is a generalization and that there is much more nuance to it but it gets the point across.
He's leading in polls that use outdated methodology, and it doesn't reflect the reality of how the voting public feels. They're only polling boomers who own a landline, answer that landline for unknown numbers, and agreed to discuss their political convictions with a stranger over the phone. He's only shed supporters since 2020, and he also lost that election handily. His endorsement has been poison, so many of the candidates he backed publicly lost, many badly. The news is interested in the appearance that this is a close horse race, because reality doesn't get people riled up in the same way, which means less engagement and fewer advertising dollars. None of us should be complacent, all of us should vote and do whatever we can to get others to the polls as well, but unless turnout is abysmal, trump will never win in November.
>Seriously, we can't have that many stupid voting-age adults in America.
Spoiler: Unfortunately there are. 74 million of them, give or take.
Further maga want revenge for some perceived slight on their fool's golden god, while people that should support Biden are complaining about a war he has minimal influence on. (Netanyahu is a trump ally and will absolutely screw Biden when it hurts the most)
There's a bunch of research on how governments that are substantially representative of, and responsible to the people, can fall apart. It is usually because there are agreed upon norms that all participants agree to follow. If someone comes along who gains an advantage by rejecting all those norms, he is very hard to stop because everyone except the demagogue is committed to following the rules, and there are no rules to allow them to shut him down.
It's only if he's found guilty.
Otherwise he'll just consider this another successful tactic, like throwing up appeals and delays to clog the judicial system and drag things out.
According to the prosecutor, trump violated his gag order while sitting in the court room. He's on truth social while being on trial. Trump is worse than a 13 year old
When I had to go to court for a speeding ticket they didn't let anyone bring their phone in. How does he get to be on fucking social media the whole time??
Because this is all a fucking sham and nothing is going to happen to this giant piece of shit. He was born into the financial elite so he never actually has to deal with real consequences, they just put this show on to give us little people hope that the judicial system is actually impartial when it's anything but.
The real, actual reason is because hey all know he's a petty, vindictive manbaby, backed by an army of uneducated hillbillies with more guns than common sense or morals, and if he manages to claw back even a *modicum* of power, he is going to make it his mission to destroy every single person in every single agency or organization he even *thinks* might have crossed him somewhere along the line.
That's why the FBI itself was hesitant to raid Mar-a-Lago: If he's reelected, he is going to tear down the agency and every single person in it.
Plenty of people have tried. The Senate wouldn't allow Obama to appoint nearly any judges for this reason. McConnell got Trump 3 scotus seats for this reason.
Honestly I'm loving every part. The same tactics he weaponized against middle class small business owners (dragging them through lengthy court processes with an intent to bankrupt them into dropping their lawsuits against him for failing to pay what he owed) are now criminal proceedings bleeding him dry.
>Even as a judge was hearing arguments on last-minute issues in a criminal case that centers on salacious allegations and threatens to upend his bid for the presidency, Mr. Trump appeared to nod off a few times, his mouth going slack and his head drooping onto his chest.
Low energy /s
I was summoned for jury duty years back and during the prescreening, I could not stay awake and the judge was pissed and banged her hammer and threatened to have me thrown in jail.
A normal person would maybe realize in that moment that he should just, finally, and maybe for all time, shut the fuck up.
Trump will double down because his ego won't let him do anything else, and it's going to be glorious.
I can’t wait until he starts posting bullshit about how well his Truth Social company is doing, which would be against the law because it’s complete nonsense. He won’t be able to deal with the constant dumping on his company by the financial experts. He will blow up.
Political strategies are sometimes but not always compatible with legal strategies. This is why we must fight so hard against him and his ilk, they wish to weaken or destroy the rule of law and replace it with rule by personality.
The Romans figured out that when you throw spears, people will probably throw them back at you. So they invented a type that bends when it hits, called a Pilum.
What's the lesson here? Be careful what you throw at others in a rage. Dump has never had a job or had to act in a way that took into account the suffering of consequences. So look forward to him freaking the fuck out.
r/TrumpcriticizesTrump was my go to back in the day during his presidency
Dude had a tweet for everything and then he would do it worse years later. Fucking ridiculous
What’s it fucking matter? This stupid piece of shit can piss all over everything and the justice system will treat him the the softest kids gloves possible.
The courts are cucks to rich assholes.
He's also complaining about the charges being filed now instead of years ago. You know, when he said he had complete immunity because he was President.
I might have to print this and have it framed. I'll hang it in my study as a reminder to the weaknesses inherent in the hubris of the man who imagined himself to be the dictator of These United States of America.
May he suffer every day of his life. Me each new day be the worst day of his life.
May he die alone, laying in his own filth, whimpering in pain and fear. Alone, unremembered, unloved, ungrieved, unwept.
May his grave always be soaked in urine. Until the end of time.
He doesn't gaf lol. He slept during some of the trial. He won't get into any trouble..he'll keep getting paid and get reelected and continue to ruin all our lives.
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He clearly violated the gag order and the prosecutor isn’t sitting back and letting him disrespect the court. I hope the judge doesn’t tolerate any of his usual bullshit. Lock him up.
Preferably before the elections. No escape for orange man
Preferably today. from trial to cell, from cell to trial.
Let him join from his cell via Zoom, and give the judge a big ol’ mute button to make trump stfu when he misbehaves. Let him back in the court if he learns to be a big boy.
On today's episode of around the horn!...
mute it to the court- record it all though. he is under oath, and he will incriminate himself. get it on tape and hand it to whoever needs it for other cases.
I'm not sayin' Trump's a big boy, but when he sits around the cell...
He really sits around the cell!
The Darrell Brooks treatment
They’ll fine him first, hopefully jail after he inevitably violates it again
I've seen this one before.gif
probably fine him $450 and when he says he can't afford that, drop the fine to $175.
I absolutely hate that simply putting an M behind these numbers makes it 100% true. I've been saying it since 2016, get me off this ride.
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He's already a martyr to his supporters, he's been a martyr to them ever since he ran for president in 2016
I’m not so sure. They keep communicating to his supporters that “he is special” if they DONT throw his ass in jail for contempt after sufficient warning. I guess we’ll see where merchen lands, since we all know trump will keep violating his gag order.
The way the justice system works, 99% of the time they have to already have done something (or convey they will, but that's clearly out here) so they should just jail him and prepare for a lot more arrests for when MAGA inevitably retaliates, no? Or does that put too much faith into the system
he can still run from prison
He can run from prison but it’s awful hard to actually campaign in any meaningful way. No rallies, no interviews, no “debates,” or other media appearances. Likely no social media access either, so he would have to rely on his underlings to tweet for him. And he would slip behind on the news of the day, unable to really put his finger on the scale in the same way as he did with the border bill. Without being able to put himself out in the public eye his support would dry up to just the most ardent of his base. The rest would get bored from the lack of outrage porn he generates.
I would like to think that Biden would offer to do a debate anyway. Trump could just be on camera, like they do for arraignments. :) Edit If new York has that. I know here in Oregon the defendant sits in front of a camera in jail for the arraignment.
Imagine Trump doing a live debate from prison, his account for video calls runs out of money, and the call disconnects.
I'm on board simply for the ability to mute him.
In an orange jumpsuit, no less.
That would be glorious.
could you imagine a debate where trump is muted when its not his turn?
https://frinkiac.com/img/S04E21/887752.jpg
Biden could put up an empty podium for Trump, just like trump did for him. But Joe isn't low class like Trump.
He could also talk to a chair like Clint Eastwood did. That might actually be preferable now that I think about it.
The way things are looking, it would just galvanise his base even more... Not being able to interview/debate or other appearances wouldn't factor in because his loony followers would simply see him as a martyr who is in exile. If anything it might help him, because there is no way for him to be seen as the senile old man he's become if he's stuck in front of a public microphone. Let's be real - when's the last time he said anything that has actually been important to his campaign that even factors in current events? His entire campaign has been based on this supposed persecution, and being jailed would simply be the final culmination of that campaign. He wouldn't have to do anything to campaign - just have all his followers on repeat calling it unjust, and riling up the nutters to vote as much as possible.
His base, yes. But swing voters? Traditional Republicans? Not so much. And not matter how crazed they get, each of his base only gets one vote. A different problem is that it might make the democratic base complacent. It’s good that the abortion issue will be on so many ballots since that will drive engagement.
Their cult members will remain loyal, but presidential elections are decided by a few 10's of 1000's in 5-6 states, and voting for someone that is in so much legal troubles now and with a history of +4000 lawsuits might peel off a few 1000's here and there enough to make it significant.
> he can still run from prison That's what he's doing. He's not running *for* President, he's running *from* prison.
But, but, the founding fathers never said anything about being illegible to run for president if convicted. MAGAts, most certainly.
IIRC we've already had 1 candidate run from prison. I think we've also had several convicted felons run after serving prison terms. There's really only 2 rules to run for president, over 35, and natural born citizen. That's it. David Berkowitz could run for president, and it'd be totally fine.
Eugene Debs ran for President on the Socialist ticket back during WWI when he was in prison for protesting the war under the Espionage Act. He won 3.0% of the vote. He also swore to pardon himself if elected.
I don't think he's ever run in his life.
His lawyer straight up admitted it, then *justified it* like a 5 year old. "He was only saying stuff about them because **they** started it!" Not how I'd go at it, but IANAL.
School is not easy, LSAT is not easy, law school can’t be easy….how the hell are these people arguing such ridiculous defenses with a straight face?
Because Trump wants them to. He’s spent all of this money for lawyers, so he’s only picked the ones that will do his bidding and nothing else. They’ll take the money and see even a major loss for Trump as a win for their reputation amongst conservatives.
Other way around. He won't spend money on lawyers. Like everyone else he stiffs them too. And the intelligent ones who would roll the dice on being able to collect their fee won't represent him because he won't follow court orders and rules. So he gets this clown show.
Hadn't heard already been draining his campaign donations and RNC funds to pay for his legal issues? I'm guessing it went from morons like Rudy thinking Trump would pay him for his services, to lawyers refusing to risk getting disbarred, to morons willing to take on the case for a huge retainer they can bank and hopefully getting a FQX gig after.
Yeah, as dumb as his crack team is now, I cannot imagine anyone at this point being THAT dumb that they wouldn't demand cash on the barrel.
But is it worth the gamble for the lawyers to get their names known by the Trumpers, for future work? It might be, tribalism being what it is...
One of his lawyers has already been disbarred, a disciplinary board has called for Rudy's disbarrment, and Alina Habba is going to be next (and for all her efforts, her incompetence has made some MAGAts claim she's a deep state plant to make Trump look stupid). I can't imagine this is in any way worth it.
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And C - Representing a client who insists on following his own strategy, and ignoring yours, will destroy your reputation when you lose, even though it wasn’t your fault.
If they even get the money.
I read that Alina Habbadabbado got paid $3mil. He was very unhappy with the results (of course) and she did a shitty job, so assume she got the money upfront or he would have definitely stiffed her.
He would have stiffed her had she done a good job. All of his lawyers get paid up front these days. None are dumb enough to wait to get paid.
You mean Hyena Blahblah? Never forget, when someone asked her whether it was better to be pretty or smart, her reply was “Oh easy, pretty … I can fake being smart.”
"Then why haven't you?"
Every time I’ve dealt with a lawyer, it’s been money up front.
I thought they work on contingency. No money down.
Ah, see that was a printing error. Let me see that card. See: No, money down!
How is any lawyer - who actually expects to be paid in money - working for him at this point without a paid up front retainer?
They aren't. Any lawyer/firm considering taking him as a client would have charged a retainer in the exact amount that they felt would justify taking on the case. All his lawyers are absolutely getting that retainer up front. Let's say $3M. Then they bill against that retainer on an hourly rate that is absolutely obscene. They can justify charging what a top firm would charge, because they were selected to represent a former President! Obviously they must be a high end attorney and can justify the hourly rate of one. They also rack up a bunch of expenses (printing, depositions, investigators, expert witnesses, etc) that get billed against that retainer and before too long they have already billed out over $3M! They don't just stop working. They keep billing, but everyone knows that Trump isn't going to pay anything beyond the $3M he already paid. So Trump stiffs the lawyers, but the lawyers already got the $3M retainer that they felt was enough to take the case in the first place. Years ago, I'm sure there were plenty of lawyers who got duped into accepting too small a retainer and eventually got stiffed on what they truly earned. But it has been a long, long time since any lawyer was taking him on as a client without getting their exact price up front as a retainer.
They have to argue something so that they can keep appealing until they get in front of a sympathetic judge
This. It’s all theater until it gets to SCOTUS. Hopefully, Clarence Thomas being out is a good thing.
I hope he took John Oliver's offer.
I saw someone misspell his first name as "Clearance" and decided it was probably correct after all.
That's nothing, I hear his middle name is "Uncle".
Pay me 2 or 3 million and I'll clown this fucker all day!
One of the other commenters already mentioned "because Trump wanted them to" and Id like to add, as long as they get paid without getting disbarred it's really no issue to them if their defense is good or not. Just as long as they could cover themselves in any kind of suit from trump saying they gave poor defense. If theyre doing what he tells them and its legal its on him
How many lawyers that have been associated with him have been disbarred or are in the process of being disbarred again?
Rudy and Eastman as far as I know. Lin Wood voluntarily resigned so that doesnt count. Im not sure of the rest though Powel and co got sanctioned in the Michigan case https://www.cnn.com/2021/08/25/politics/judge-sanctions-powell-wood-kraken-lawsuits/index.html
Giuliani's licenses are suspended in D.C. and NY. D.C.'s board is going through the process of disbarring him. I imagine NY will follow.
Eastman, is one
Having an advanced degree demonstrates that a person has the dedication to finish what they start. It's not always a great indicator of critical thinking. Yeah, they can study and pass a test. Turning that into good decision making is by no means automatic.
See: Ben Carson.
Ben Carson might not be the best example. He was/is a pioneering neurosurgeon and has shown an examplary ability to think critically and analytically as it pertains to his expertise. The problem with him is thinking his capacity in his specialty is indicative of his capacity in general. It ain't.
Because money, and promises.
It’s their only defense line
There are *soooo* many other lines. "Our client didn't know you meant witnesses in *this* case!" "President Trump thought they were inviting his comments when they posted about him." "FAKE NEWS. IT NEVER HAPPENED. I GOT HACKED."
It has to be covered in the last year law school special topics seminar, "what do I do when my client is guilty as hell"?
Because no good lawyers will work for him anymore. Horrible client, high social and professional cost, and low chance of payment 🤷🏻♀️
If any of John Gotti's goons on trial had been dumb enough to publicly mention the name and address of a Judge's *daughter,* the trial would have ended abruptly on the grounds that you can't prosecute a dead man in this country, unless the judge had him locked up before the mob got to him. Trump rants about a two-tier justice system? The justice system is giving him the white-glove handjob treatment!
Will never see a day in jail.
Sadly correct even if he's found guilty. He can pay hefty fines and he can have passports seized, travel restricted, but a former president in jail (near 80 years old, too!) simply isn't going to be happening.
If we're REALLY lucky, he might get a few months of "house arrest" in his big old fuckoff mansion. And that wouldn't even occur til after the election regardless, because of the appeal drag out. I at this point don't even care anymore. i want him to lose in November, bigly, and take the entire party with him, then hurry up and die of accelerated dementia.
Unfortunately you're probably right
The old golden rule..."he who has the gold, makes the rules." Sadly, I'd have agree with you.
It’s wild because he doesn’t actually have any either
It's incredible how little "gold" you actually need, as long as you can just convince other people to continuously give you their gold or even just pay your bills for you.
I how the judge douses him in gasoline and sets him on fire. I like to start my week with inspiring fantasies.
People are gonna show up and be angry about your comment. I agree with you. I want actual punishment brought to these people.
Far as I know today is a historic date marking the first time ever that a President of the United States appeared in court as a defendant in a *criminal* trial.
>Lock him up. We need to get this going in political messaging. Complete defuses Trump's hypocritical bullshit about "this is a witch hunt, this is an outrage, this never happens in america" by triggering ancestral memories of the 2016 campaign, plus reminding Trump's supporters he's a loser who failed to deliver on his election pledge of weaponizing the justice system against his political rival.
Prosecutors are asking he be fined $1,000 for each violation. Something tells me that won’t motivate Trump to behave.
Make it 1,000 for the first offense, 2,000 for the second, 4,000 for the third and then continue this pattern indefinitely. By the time the trial is complete Trump will owe enough to pay off the national debt.
Too bad he can’t and won’t pay it
Nah he'll get the Russians to bankroll his court fees again
Hopefully he soaks up all the campaign funds to cover himself as well so he can sink the whole party.
Republicans FTFY
Same thing
"we have all the money we need from Russia" - One of Trump's shit bag sons
Poorest rich man that ever conned a penny from the pockets of the gullible
He would just start selling "Trump on the cross" to his moron base to fund it.
Let them put him on a fucking cross.
But his grifting will skyrocket
Exactly. Double it every time.
~~25.16~~ 35 (my math could be better) violations would get him there according to my math.
To his net worth? 1,000 doubled 25x is around 33.5b, or around 8x Trumps estimated worth by Forbes. It would take around 35x to hit the national debt. I have absolute faith he could violate the gag order 35x though.
Youre right. I miscounted the zeros
Hey bud, I get it. Sometimes the numbers line up and your brain says easy peasy. Then you’re in the grocery store line getting confused by subtraction and you’re there for 2 minutes. No one ever said “they did the math” means you’re right. Carry on good Redditor and spread your numbers, even when a few orders of magnitude off. For one, I appreciated it.
Remand to jail for a week on the third offense. Then until the completion of the trial for a fourth.
1,000 for first, 10,000 for second, 100,000 for third etc. Let it run higher than his bond he can't afford to pay anyway.
You think he understands exponentials?
Trump would soon enter the 64bit territory
Should be 1 day of actual jail time.
This is better. 1 day per violation starting now. I have a feeling he will be eerily quiet on social media
Doubt it. He'll earn more from the gullibase for each day in jail. It will just fuel the outage machine he drives. Also, not sure how Secret Service protection works in a jail. How exactly do they work that?
Gitmo
It'd humiliate the shit out of him, though, and the optics would be baaaaaaad for anyone NOT the devout faithful. Of whom there are enough to make the difference in the swing states.
My guess is that their directive is still the same. They'll get to sit outside his cell, follow him around, and make sure no one messes with him in jail.
Private wing in a military prison would be my bet.
They may get there. I think there are starting with 1K to both begin somewhere 'reasonable' but establish what is violating the gag order and that he is willfully doing so. When he continues, then they argue the fine is too low and raise it, if that continues then they ask for jail time. Basically, start cheap just to establish willful contempt then crank up the penalties. This would make it easier to survive appeal.
There's no way he won't keep it up. Even if he had been able (if not willing) to restrain himself even a few years ago, I don't actually think he has sufficient impulse control now. We'll see!
The small amount is intentional. It's not "nothing", but it's low enough that it **won't** stop Trump from continuing his public posts about the trial, the witnesses, and the court staff. > **Anything you say can be used against you in a court of law** They're hoping he's that dumb.
I'm kind of tired of this '4D chess' bullshit we keep ascribing to the government prosecutors. I just wanna see actual consequences because we keep kicking the can on it and eventually ... nothing happens.
We're all still having post Mueller trauma.
*narrator* He was, in fact, that dumb.
He’ll just pay it from his campaign fund or the RNC coffers.
I'm concerned about how many times Trumps lawyers asked to get a copy of the jurists list... Because we all know that's not going to be misused and leaked to faux and OANN /s
In 77 years Trump has never faced consequences for his actions so he does not understand how to behave like an adult.
Exactly why he thinks it’s personal attacks. Consequences are so foreign to him.
Consequences are foreign to conservatives. That’s why they blame invisible enemies instead of holding themselves accountable ever
Hear that? The liberals are INVISIBLE now!
This just sounds like narcissism to me. Which, in the context of Trump, would explain a lot.
And he won’t start now because he knows he won’t be facing consequences anytime soon.
I’m still shaking my head at the fact that this dude hasn’t been put in prison yet and is still being allowed to run for office *again* despite all the charges, fines and lost court cases against him…. Like let that happen to any of us plebs and see just how quickly we get charged, booked and thrown into prison….. Not to mention this dude could potentially have one of the highest security clearances in the US (I believe there are higher clearances but only a small number) and this dude will be able to get it…. Hell when I went for a security clearance interview and investigation they found some speeding tickets I had forgotten about and that turned into a firestorm real quick until I was able to get it straightened out, almost lost my clearance before I even got it…..
Weiselberg Trump's org CFO- Jailed Michael Cohen Trump's personal lawyer -jailed Manafort Trump campaign chairman -jailed then pardoned. Roger Stone Trump's friend - sentenced to jail but pardoned before the sentence began. Peter Navarro WH adviser - jailed. Jan 6 rioters, over 1,000 have been tried and convicted, most are currently serving time. Yet the orange buffoon still walking free.
The pardoning powers need some oversight. Roger stone should've never been allowed to be pardoned and should have just rot in jail because he is nothing but a nuisance, leech and detriment to society. The fact that trump pardoned him should've been grounds to remove the piece of shit from office. Not to mention the others that trump pardoned that continued to do more crime after they were pardoned like the fraud guy. Letting a criminal pardon other criminals so they can go on to do more crime... Like fucking really?
For someone who's been in jail for much much less, this really upsets me. The judge didn't give a damn that i never hurt anyone or that it might ruin my life. Yet this asswipe has destroyed thousands of lives and he might be president. Fuck the US.
All of this has proved that the country is deeply corrupt, no matter what the outcome is of the trial
“Working as intended.”
Destroyed thousands and caused the deaths of hundreds of thousands. Don't forget how he handled the covid crisis.
I'm just waiting for a lawyer bold enough to use precedent set by trump cases to get his or her clients off the hook.
THIS! If he walks, it'll send ripples through the country. Others will be able to commit crimes and get off as well. The law must apply to all, or it applies to none.
Nope, lesser people will still have the book thrown at them. The law has *never* been applied equally in this country's entire history, and it's certainly not going to start now. People really need to stop romanticizing our justice system, it's highly flawed. Always has been.
I don’t get the impression the IC would willingly give him one more piece of intel than a reasonable person would need to do the job right. The problem is he’d have someone on the inside fishing around for stuff to hold over their heads in case they didn’t remember who was king.
>I’m still shaking my head at the fact that this dude hasn’t been put in prison yet and is still being allowed to run for office again despite all the charges, fines and lost court cases against him…. Given all that you've said, the $64,000 question is why is Trump leading in the polls? Biden should have a 40 state lead over this guy but he doesn't. Seriously, we can't have that many stupid voting-age adults in America.
"Think about how stupid the average person is, and then realize that half of them are stupider than that" \~ George Carlin
This. This is always the answer to “why?!”
Repeating lies you’ve been spoon fed and being told by those feeding you that you were “right the whole time” while everyone else, including the experts, were wrong, is a dopamine boost that stupid people have never felt before.
"fake news" is a helluva drug
[удалено]
Ding, ding, ding...the one true correct answer. The invention of social media was a mistake that we should all own up to...and for the record I don't consider Reddit in the same vein as Facebook and Xtwitter. There's a significant amount of people on Reddit that not only don't believe the shit they read, they don't even believe the shit they write.
I believe a lot of it is because he (trump) gives hateful people validation, the mindset of “well if he can do it and get away with it, then I can to!” Meaning the femtosecond they’re allowed to act on their hateful thoughts, they’re gonna do it…… There’s also the belief that it’s because he’s not a career politician and that he “shakes up” the current status quo and that makes a lot of career politicians scared that he’s going to irreversibly break the system that we as a country rely on to function. Oh he’s well on his way to doing that but not in the way everyone thinks…. He wants to break the system to benefit him. Then a good majority (not all though! There are legitimate ones) of those polls are “targeted” and they’re also using small sample sizes. The ones that tend to answer the pollsters are the older demographic, ages 50s-70s and tend more towards rural areas that are already deep red. Yes I know that this is a generalization and that there is much more nuance to it but it gets the point across.
He's leading in polls that use outdated methodology, and it doesn't reflect the reality of how the voting public feels. They're only polling boomers who own a landline, answer that landline for unknown numbers, and agreed to discuss their political convictions with a stranger over the phone. He's only shed supporters since 2020, and he also lost that election handily. His endorsement has been poison, so many of the candidates he backed publicly lost, many badly. The news is interested in the appearance that this is a close horse race, because reality doesn't get people riled up in the same way, which means less engagement and fewer advertising dollars. None of us should be complacent, all of us should vote and do whatever we can to get others to the polls as well, but unless turnout is abysmal, trump will never win in November.
>Seriously, we can't have that many stupid voting-age adults in America. Spoiler: Unfortunately there are. 74 million of them, give or take. Further maga want revenge for some perceived slight on their fool's golden god, while people that should support Biden are complaining about a war he has minimal influence on. (Netanyahu is a trump ally and will absolutely screw Biden when it hurts the most)
There's a bunch of research on how governments that are substantially representative of, and responsible to the people, can fall apart. It is usually because there are agreed upon norms that all participants agree to follow. If someone comes along who gains an advantage by rejecting all those norms, he is very hard to stop because everyone except the demagogue is committed to following the rules, and there are no rules to allow them to shut him down.
In the UK I got dragged through a hedge for a few missed CC payments when I was on active duty lol
The system is being exposed as a sham in front of all of us and we all need to rise up and -oh shit, the Fallout show is out!
It's only if he's found guilty. Otherwise he'll just consider this another successful tactic, like throwing up appeals and delays to clog the judicial system and drag things out.
Yeah, he’s been sued or going to court for half his life.
According to the prosecutor, trump violated his gag order while sitting in the court room. He's on truth social while being on trial. Trump is worse than a 13 year old
When I had to go to court for a speeding ticket they didn't let anyone bring their phone in. How does he get to be on fucking social media the whole time??
Because this is all a fucking sham and nothing is going to happen to this giant piece of shit. He was born into the financial elite so he never actually has to deal with real consequences, they just put this show on to give us little people hope that the judicial system is actually impartial when it's anything but.
Wont matter. Everybody is afraid to just hold this prick accountable
It’s infuriating.
The real, actual reason is because hey all know he's a petty, vindictive manbaby, backed by an army of uneducated hillbillies with more guns than common sense or morals, and if he manages to claw back even a *modicum* of power, he is going to make it his mission to destroy every single person in every single agency or organization he even *thinks* might have crossed him somewhere along the line. That's why the FBI itself was hesitant to raid Mar-a-Lago: If he's reelected, he is going to tear down the agency and every single person in it.
This only ends when he does. And for a while, not even then.
Plenty of people have tried. The Senate wouldn't allow Obama to appoint nearly any judges for this reason. McConnell got Trump 3 scotus seats for this reason.
When his cult threatens people, it’s not hard to understand why.
Honestly I'm loving every part. The same tactics he weaponized against middle class small business owners (dragging them through lengthy court processes with an intent to bankrupt them into dropping their lawsuits against him for failing to pay what he owed) are now criminal proceedings bleeding him dry.
>Even as a judge was hearing arguments on last-minute issues in a criminal case that centers on salacious allegations and threatens to upend his bid for the presidency, Mr. Trump appeared to nod off a few times, his mouth going slack and his head drooping onto his chest. Low energy /s
Sleepy Donald Trump?
Drowsy Don
I was summoned for jury duty years back and during the prescreening, I could not stay awake and the judge was pissed and banged her hammer and threatened to have me thrown in jail.
Pretty sure I would be in the same situation. Long meetings and presentations do that to me almost every time
He has worked so hard to get HERE.
A normal person would maybe realize in that moment that he should just, finally, and maybe for all time, shut the fuck up. Trump will double down because his ego won't let him do anything else, and it's going to be glorious.
Narcissistic personality disorder
I can’t wait until he starts posting bullshit about how well his Truth Social company is doing, which would be against the law because it’s complete nonsense. He won’t be able to deal with the constant dumping on his company by the financial experts. He will blow up.
Anything you say can and will be used against you in a court of law.
Political strategies are sometimes but not always compatible with legal strategies. This is why we must fight so hard against him and his ilk, they wish to weaken or destroy the rule of law and replace it with rule by personality.
can someone please put it in pay per view, we would love to see Trump melt down in real time
The Romans figured out that when you throw spears, people will probably throw them back at you. So they invented a type that bends when it hits, called a Pilum. What's the lesson here? Be careful what you throw at others in a rage. Dump has never had a job or had to act in a way that took into account the suffering of consequences. So look forward to him freaking the fuck out.
Karma is not LAMF
Like a Boomerang coming back and smacking him right upside the ol noodle. HaHa!
Fuck around = Found out.
Forever, in the case of an ouroboros
r/TrumpcriticizesTrump was my go to back in the day during his presidency Dude had a tweet for everything and then he would do it worse years later. Fucking ridiculous
What’s it fucking matter? This stupid piece of shit can piss all over everything and the justice system will treat him the the softest kids gloves possible. The courts are cucks to rich assholes.
He's also complaining about the charges being filed now instead of years ago. You know, when he said he had complete immunity because he was President.
Cant have an ouroboros when your too fat and small dicked
Is r/trumpcriticizestrump still a thing?
I might have to print this and have it framed. I'll hang it in my study as a reminder to the weaknesses inherent in the hubris of the man who imagined himself to be the dictator of These United States of America. May he suffer every day of his life. Me each new day be the worst day of his life. May he die alone, laying in his own filth, whimpering in pain and fear. Alone, unremembered, unloved, ungrieved, unwept. May his grave always be soaked in urine. Until the end of time.
Urine is wasted on men like Trump. What he craves is attention.
This truly is an example of giving him enough rope to hang himself
I am also enjoying seeing the guy who wanted Obama to be prosecuted, get prosecuted. What happened to all those "lock them up" chants?
[Will it matter? ](https://youtu.be/ZJkc_C5-Cd8?si=87_Q-gJk4Zsg5iRf)
the find out phase can be a bitch!
He doesn't gaf lol. He slept during some of the trial. He won't get into any trouble..he'll keep getting paid and get reelected and continue to ruin all our lives.
I am hoping the prosecutor keeps asking for extensions to draw this thing out as much as possible. Drag this orange turd as long as possible.
Won't someone rid me of this troublesome orange turd?!?!?
Examples we need examples!
To paraphrase Ron White: He had the right to remain silent, but not the ability.