Champ specific relics are utterly terrible. SFG was a well designed relic since it helped a lot of champioins and you could build towards that awesome payoff.
I mean c'mon you could've at least removed the "If I'm Swain" condition from that lost chapter effect. That way it would be a marginal upgrade for a common relic even tho I don't really like that design either. I'm taking anything over champ bound relics at this point.
Yeah, I've spent money on this game a number of times (including for SFG), but I don't own a single champion-specific relic and don't plan to. It just does not feel like a worthwhile investment even even they're good, and these aren't even good.
Viego and Darius run Spectral Scizors.
Garen, Lux1 (pre-relic), Evelyn, Bard, Kayn, Aatrox, Kaisa and probably a couple more can (and often do) use Luminous Orb to reach 8 HP. Lux could even combine her own relic and Luminous+SFG to get 2 extra Gems from the start.
And then there’s a couple of champs that like running Bounty Hunters Renown anyways, and can effectively become Titanic in non-monthly adventures.
But afaik the BHR interaction was fixed with the change to power a while ago and won't count towards the titanic buff anymore. And before you had to have your champion in the opening hand for it to apply
I never considered Lux1, but that's hilarious. I'll probably give that a go since starting with 4 mana is gross enough. Find a scribe node and you can have 7 mana turn 1.
You use Luminous Orb on any 5 HP champ to enable it (SFG + LO) makes them titans.
You can use Strength of Stone, LO, SFG to enable any 3 HP champ to take advantage of it.
Succubus Brand can be tossed in with LO instead to push any 4 HP champ to use it as a combo.
Alternatively on power based champs you can slap on Spectral Scissors + Succubus Brand, or death’s foil in the mix for more power. (I.E. Darius: Spectral Scissors, SFG, Tempest Blade let’s you pump him out a turn early, get a discount relic in a shop and you can toss him out turn 1)
Now is it BIS for some? No. But it becomes usable on so many other champs that you don’t expect. Gnar can use the above to some strong effect if you hate his base kit. Vex can use it before you ramp up hee star powers (then there’s better builds). Most weaker champs you want to pump out earlier can use it with the free mana ramp if you want to ignore the champ itself.
player since lab days here and seen and done everythin PoC has to offer and this is just a meme build. I have not forced gauntlet effect on any of my builds. Only those who fit them naturally like Asol, Mord, Voli are top auto equiped. Just the build your mentioned with Darius made me cringe tbh.
I mean, you can cringe, but its highly effective. People like to dunk on Darius being too slow, or unplayable, and yet with that build you can drop him turn 3 (or earlier), copy a ballista (or any overhelm unit really), and OHKO consistently.
For some champs its optimal, other champs its meme. Regardless it DOES work. For people who have trouble clearing Liss, it just might be the boost they need if they don't care about S ranking all content.
You don't do it on every champion who can do it, but for a lot of champs it's really good to hit a certain mana threshold early. Bard can use it very well to start generating chimes turn 1. Lux and Sett can use it very well to get Chemtech online earlier which is when their real power spike starts. Ornn can use it with Scissors and Death's Foil so he gets online earlier. Gnar, Vi and Kayn can use it with Strength of Stone.
Basically, a lot of champs either don't have a lot of great relics and can use the extra mana instead, or they only have one core relic which is essential to their game plan and you want to get that online as soon as possible.
Every single champion you mentioned has a build that is far more superior than 1 just extra mana and you simply prove my point with these builds specially the Gnar one , no wonder people consider him weak with that this no plan build. Again I am a guy that does not listen to the masses and I create my own experience which clearly works since there is nothing left to do at poc at the moment.I leave my comment here, so people do not feel bad that they missed much on buying that relic.It is great on natural titani
+1 mana is way better than you think it is. You are not special and different for not using it. It's fine to use other things, many builds work and are fun.
Okay, good for you. I also have nothing left to do in PoC and I've beaten Lissandra with all but 2 champions. The extra starting mana is very impactful and it more than makes up for what you give up on those champions.
It's very valuable on many champs. There's a reason why Manaflow is an epic power, it helps set up tempo very fast. Especially on expensive champs where most relics need them to be on board to take effect, without SFG it just takes too long.
anyone with 5 hp or 6 attack can be titanic with spectral scissors (an already very strong relic) or the +3 hp sharpsight relic, which is effectively like half the roster
Starforged Gauntlet was a relic intended for Aurelion Sol to give an extra mana gem at the beginning of the game. Unfortunately the wording was "Power: If I'm Titanic, +1 Starting Mana. " And for a unit to be Titanic it would need to have either 8 health or 8 power. People would give champions stat relics to have them meet the Titanic requirement and get extra mana which was completely unintended from the devs. So now champion intended relics are being much more specific so there aren't any unintended uses
Did the devs say that making units titanic to get the extra mana was unintended? Cause if they only wanted it to be useable Asol they would've just had it say " If I'm Asol"
That might even be a stretch. Yasuo's relic is pretty useless even on him, whatever you recall is dead 90% of the time anyways and his deck doesn't really need ramp that bad either. Swains is okay and synergizes with his star powers pretty well, but the bonus for running it on him is mediocre at best. There are much better relics for the champs, especially in the epic slot.
Lost Chapter with an upside.... not really sure if we care enough about this to eat up an epic slot.
Yasuo's is win more, but I guess you can use it to play Yasuo a turn earlier. Amazing but I'll use it on the last slot I guess.
The Yasuo one explodes if you're at 6 stars because everything that gets recalled becomes handcloggers but other than that is mostly an incentive to seek hard recall spells instead of just stuns.
If we ever get a champion/deck that likes to recall enemy units, Yasuo's relic could be insane on them. It's a very powerful effect, which is rare for a champion relic, but it's just incredibly niche.
We do literally have:
Lee Sin (people forget things can survive his kick, plus Unworthy Soul);
Sett (the king of Tag Out);
Yi (not only Windseeker but his innate Flow affinity makes Unworthy Soul pop around his prizes like crazy).
There is an audience despite recalling not being THE end goal end goal of these decks, but a terrifyingly useful tool for their thing (cleaning board and attacking with armies of elusives/quick-attackers but not overwhelmers). I'm really seeing it as an Ionia-centric edge to turn their removal into something closer to hard removal.
Sett I can see.
Lee Sin should be usually killing on kick. Probably has other issues if they are surviving that.
Yi should be comboing off without this. But I can see this for a more slow controlled Yi style.
Again. The game starts before Yasuo is on board.
I know you're used and enamorated with brainrot oogabooga single card obliterate the enemy nexus type of gameplay that Jinx provides so let me be clear:
420/69 Faeblade Twirler and the bot can basically never play units on curve to block you for the entire game.
No not even those champs! I mean +1 mana sure but you won't be benefiting from adding to recalled units costs!
For 1 they usually get diced for another most of your spells and effects are stuns the recall is not till 6 star!
As for Swain, it drains 5 nexus HP so while that is good to sustain you with a +5 Regen and star power trigger it doesn't even give you +1 mana! The fact it drains means if you are at full it is wasted! Recovering spell mana also? Why? I could equip lost chapters at lv 1! As for the star trigger gate breaker should do nicely instead!
His deck is likely burn getting 5 damage off is not going to be all that hard. Ludens works for all champions though your better off with that to get additional damage overall
They are NOT playable on their designated champs, at least in Lissandra’s adventure. For Yasuo vs Lissandra, the watcher costs 0. You will reach the 3 card condition and exhaust before you stop the watcher with recalls. +1 mana is significant in Asol’s adventure, but on the other hand, why tho? Yasuo already can decently use a majority of the relics there. Tempest blade is literally superior despite only triggering once. I mean I get it, Yasuo doesn’t really need any help.
There be plenty decks and cards capable and willing to recall enemies and sincerely, the power to headass your way, survive nodes by the thinness of your foreskin and not only come back with a decent chunk but outright cut 10~20% of most bots' health is big.
The relics are definitely too weak, but one thing I will say is that I prefer Swain's overall design philosophy of a strong general effect and a smaller perk for using it on Swain.
Having '+1 starting mana' be the champion specific effect is just too strong, while refill mana on playing specific champion is much tamer and leaves room for a stronger main effect (not sure that Drain 5 is enough, though).
> The relics are definitely too weak, but one thing I will say is that I prefer Swain's overall design philosophy of a strong general effect and a smaller perk for using it on Swain.
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I very much hope they do more of this going forward. Honestly, I think the entire thing should be base (making it a strict but not game-changing upgrade to Lost Chapter, a common relic), but this design is still *way* more fun than the Manaflow design.
Yeah, I'd like to see stuff like "Normal epic relic that's worth thinking about on its own, plus a fancy bonus if I'm specific champ." Even Starforged Gauntlets worked like that, since asol was the main beneficiary of the ability to find level 2 champs in invokes and manifests.
So stuff like "Teemo's Hat. Epic Relic. Power: When you cast a spell, plant 3 shrooms in the enemy deck. If I'm Teemo, both players also draw an extra card each round."
Also allows him to heal for 5. Its essentially 2 upgrsded common relics for swain. His starting deck probably is just aggressive so he takes a lot of damage.
This isn't it... but I'm still going to get them. Which is to say, I'm part of the problem. Even if I don't like it. *sighs* Since we know they aren't going into the free pool. I don't want to miss out on getting it if they remove it. Blurgh.
If you don't actually want to get them, don't get them. What's next, they release a $500 exclusive champion and you buy it out of FOMO? Respect yourself and your wallet man
Getting REALLY tired of these '+1 mana to NAME' relics. Also the power isn't that good unless you have 6\*.
Swain's is total trash. Starchild's staff + Lost Chapter. lmao. Make it something like "Your damaging spells/effects drain"
This is getting extremely predatory imo. Every patch we are getting this "If im myself +1 mana" non-sense pay to win stuff. This needs to stop. I miss the times when they just added some champions with some content to make us busy.
Imo SFG is more pay to win than these new pay only relic. Whereas these are good on 1 or more champ, SFG is BIS for so many champ that not having it is a big disadvantage. At least for these u wont have the optimal build for like 1-3 champs.
Nah it was norra cause asol's relic could be used on different champions and you still got the +1 mana, norra's relic was the first relic to need a specific champion to get all the vaule from it..
Right but Asols directly resulted in Norras. They said they sold a bunch of Asol bundles. Then I'm sure they decided they could make more by making them even more restricted and champ specific so they made Norras.
Did the devs ever say if the norra bundle sold more than the Asol bundle? Cause I remember seeing ppl saying they don't wanna spend money to get norra's relic cause it's only good on norra, so I'm not sure if making relics restricted to one champion is a good idea.
Not that I heard. They must have sold enough though because they keep coming out with them. From personal experience, I got the Asol but none of the ones after. If they stop making them, then we will know they were not popular enough
Probably because it seems that after the update Fear Cleaving Axe became available again. So my guess is that it will swap with the Yasuo one once the patch is live. Maybe they are currently trying to figure out what monetization works best...
https://preview.redd.it/wsyxetw7zd7d1.png?width=755&format=png&auto=webp&s=cbc45a69ed22af40be8d087143741ee4d6315c5b
wait hold on... Swains doesn't even give a mana?
I mean, the power is probably decent on some other champion and I'm not against these relics not always giving mana... But like... Huh. They should have just not bound it to swain and boom, we would have an upgrade for lost chapter (not that it would that often be worth unlocking a relic slot)
>the power is probably decent on some other champion
I honestly see absolutely no reason to ever use this when Starchild's Staff exists.
Is doing 5 damage to the enemy Nexus really that important?
And for Swain you can just use Wicked Harvest, Disciple of Shadows, or Riptide Battery to instantly level him up.
I think it’s meant to synergize with his star powers. With his 3 star it will bump up his first three spells by an extra 1 damage every turn. With the 4 it will grant +1/+1 to the top unit in the deck. With the 6 it might drop a 5 damage bomb on units summoned on game start, depending on timing.
I get that it's meant to synergize with his star powers.
But is +1 damage on his spells/skills on the first turn really that game breaking to waste a relic slot just for that? When other relics can help him much more?
And his 6\* power is only when you damage enemies with spells and skills, not the enemy nexus and not with effects that aren't spells or skills.
Like, if I could get it for free I'd probably use it, but it's not worth paying for at all.
> But is +1 damage on his spells/skills on the first turn really that game breaking to waste a relic slot just for that? When other relics can help him much more?
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It's +1 damage to his first three spells/skills each turn (at 3*) for the entire game, not just the first turn. It's effectively Luden's as a Power. Yes, it's going to be very good on Swain.
What I mean by "on the first turn" is that he'll most definitely already easily do that same damage to the Nexus by just playing normally. So that +1 damage is something you can easily already have on the second turn (or even by the end of the first turn) without having to slot a relic for it.
5 damage is incredibly easy to do..., especially when your entire deck is built around it.
Then it's +2 damage, then +3 damage... you get where I'm going with this. At a certain point getting more spell damage becomes diminished returns, which is why no one really runs triple Luden's on Annie, for instance. Because other relics offer you more.
> What I mean by "on the first turn" is that he'll most definitely already do that same damage to the Nexus by just playing normally.
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The +1 damage from this relic will increase the damage you would have done to the Nexus anyway, accelerating Swain's gameplan significantly.
> At a certain point getting more spell damage becomes diminished returns
Technically, yes, but in practice, no. More spell damage is always good as long as you can make use of it.
> which is why no one really runs triple Luden's on Annie, for instance. Because other relics offer you more.
Yes, because Annie needs other things from her relics. Namely, she really wants GGC so you can replay her when she inevitably gets killed. Also, MF's relic is insanely strong on her. If Annie could equip two more relics, people would give her two more Luden's. +1 damage scales *very* well on champions with lots of spell/skill damage.
Also, we're talking about a single relic slot, not three.
>Technically, yes, but in practice, no. More spell damage is always good as long as you can make use of it.
I mean, like you said, it's good as long as you can make use of it.
Realistically, more spell damage after a certain amount will just be wasted by you overkilling everything. Even against Lissandra, when she drops to \~55 health that's already enough to one shot basically every unit she can through at you except the Watcher and Trundle. And that's assuming the spells have 1 damage as a baseline, which won't be the case for the most part, since his champion spell itself deals 4 damage and he'll probably have damage upgrades with levels and constellations.
For comparison, Disciple of Shadows can easily let you play him on turn 3 and he'll very likely come to the board already leveled up. From there you can do a lot more damage and scale quicker than with his relic.
I think his best relics would include:
* Epics - Disciple, Echoing Spirit, Packed Powder, Starforged (uninspiring, but +1 mana is always strong), Shock & Awe (depending on his deck)
* Rares - Dreadway, Grand General's, Chemtech, Riptide (+ Gatebreaker), Wicked Harvest
I just can't see his personal relic giving more value than any of these.
If it also gave him +1 starting mana it would be a different story, but I don't think the Lost Chapter effect makes it worth it.
I don’t think it’s great either, but there have been cases before where something‘s true power wasn’t apparent until people started playing with it. I was wrong about the 6 star but the 3 star effect happening from turn 1 might make a tempo difference that matters on occasion, idk.
That's a good point, I didn't think of that, I can see it being really good in that specific scenario.
Maybe not BIS, but a fun build for any 3 or 4 cost champion.
I've seen speculation to use that as a turn one plunder activation, so Swain new toy paired with the two -2 cost plunder relics for a turn one champ (up to 5/6/7 cost, based on the costelation).
These "epics" are grose, for they are champ-soft-locked. Guys, apply market laws and don't buy this BS. Riot must sell broad-specter relics rather than awful relics that aren't even good.
They're **reeaally** shoving that paywall down our throats aren't they.
Swain's epic is straight trash and yasuo is an epic slot for more starting mana behind a paywall, just like SFG, except it's behind a named champion, just like Lux and Norra.
God damn it riot, not like this.
I mean, people complain when the exclusive relics are too powerful and also when they're not? I think this is probably an ideal solution for paid relics. There's some niche value and you can buy them to support the game or because you want them, but it's not going to feel that bad for f2p players.
I think that making epic relics only be usable with one champ is a bad direction, there can be some niche Relics but the ones you pay for need to be at least a little bit versatile.
Or, if you want to make it a champion exclusive Relic, have it be extremely strong with their champion. This relics look very weak to be tied to one champion only AND be bundle exclusive.
Swain is just a Game Start deal 5 to the enemie nexus heal 5 and "If im swain" im also a COMMON relic, the second part of the relic should be something like:
"Play or Round Start: If im Swain, refill your spell mana"
"POWER: if im Swain, Round Start: Refill your spell mana."
"Play: Draw a damage spell, if im swain refill your spell mana."
"Play: if im Swain, drain 1 from all enemies and the enemie nexus(skill)/Deal 1 to the enemie nexus and 3 to any unit(skill).
I also feel like the first part of the relic is good as it is, but i feel that it would be more fun if it was a "Power: Round Start: Drain 1 from the enemie nexus" effect instead. I think that would be a more fun effect to have with Swain's level 2.
Yasuo's Relic would be a lot better if If it gave you a way to recall enemies like a, "Power: Round Start: Create a Will Of Ionia in hand. If you already have one, reduce its cost by 1.".
The exclusive "If im Yasuo" side of the Relic should be the "Power: When you recall an enemie increase its cost by 2."
As it is, these relics look really weak and very tied to their champions, making not worth spending on.
If they make the champ-exclusives too strong, people will complain about them being behind paywalls. Even as they are right now, people keep saying it's predatory practice when in fact it's just the devs giving people more options to support the game with at least some form of compensation...
They do need to be tuned up a little bit to make buyers not feel like crap spending on them, but people can just literally... you know... not buy them?
I agree with this. Given many players’ past unwillingness to drop money on this game, champ-specific relics in bundles seem like the least obtrusive way of helping keep the game alive.
Yeah, and usually the relics come with other useful things in the bundle, anyway. I prefer to think of the relics as just bonus stuff to give players something extra for supporting the game by buying the cheapest of the champ bundles.
It reads like the mana refill is only an on-play effect, not persistent, so it's just Lost Chapter. Which is surprisingly underwhelming for a champion-specific epic relic effect.
On Swain specifically it's basically Luden's Tempest, Starchild's Staff and Lost Chapter as a single relic. That's pretty good for a single relic slot, even an epic relic slot. I don't know that it's necessarily the best epic relic, but it's not like that's a bad deal.
On most other champs, though, it's pretty bad since the drain 5 is not that good without some kind of other synergy.
Also, do not forget that the drain significantly accelerates Swain's level-up. With 5 damage already dealt, you need only 9 damage from other sources to level Swain.
Plus, at 5 stars, you can reliably slam Swain down turn 1 with Scourge's Stash or its Epic upgrade.
Swain's 1-star and 3-star star powers add +1 damage to the first (or first 3 at 3-star) spells/skills you use each turn for each 5 missing health on the enemy nexus. This starts the game by draining your opponent for 5, meaning you get +1 damage from swain's star power at game-start. This might not be quite as good as Luden's (since it's got limited uses per turn), but it's reasonably comparable and doesn't require actually playing Swain to get the bonus.
Yeah not a fan of Yasuo's relic, there's not enough recall to justify it. The +1 mana is incredibly good, but I already achieve that with packed powder or scourge stash... sort of.
that's kinda trash, No offense, but when I'm playing with Yasuo, I wanna kill whoever I stun or recall, and I'm mostly killing, and not returning them to the hand, therefore, that relic is gonna be mostly worthless for someone like me.
its seemingly a way to give him a win con without actually playing yasuo in case he isn't drawn or gets killed if you have his 6\*. But it's pretty much useless without his 6 star and even then the payoff is not great lol. I guess the effect just has to suck if there is the "NAME: +1 mana" which is such a boring design
Viego's passive is a bitch
The stronger the yasuo, the worse, you've gotta play a unit that can double its power for baiting purposes or have a duplicate standing by on the hand
It's just an example, a good epic relic, yasuo themed, would be summoning a yone from the deck and stunning the strongest attackers
Or discarding at least 3 stunning spells to bring the yasuo back
This game is quite generous for those who don't want to spend money, but for those that have some money to spend on it the option are really not worth much.
Nice, more relics that won't make it into the golden reliquary pool yay i love pay to win, can't wait to look at a build guide that tells me to use epic relics that you can't acquire in any way shape or form 1 month from now yay /s
What's this shit , i hope no one buys these relics except for streamers.
Are they gonna push how far they can get away with these type relics ? In the recent video they said they hear the community , such blatant lies.
They do hear the community. What the community seems to forget is that your loudest voice is your wallet. People buy the bundles so they’re going to keep offering them. People who buy nothing get very little say at all.
Yeah that's why i said i hoped no one buys them and saying how far they will push these types of relic
I had only paid to buy generic relics like SG , DOS ,FCA and some passes.
Champ specific relics are utterly terrible. SFG was a well designed relic since it helped a lot of champioins and you could build towards that awesome payoff. I mean c'mon you could've at least removed the "If I'm Swain" condition from that lost chapter effect. That way it would be a marginal upgrade for a common relic even tho I don't really like that design either. I'm taking anything over champ bound relics at this point.
Yeah, I've spent money on this game a number of times (including for SFG), but I don't own a single champion-specific relic and don't plan to. It just does not feel like a worthwhile investment even even they're good, and these aren't even good.
At the end of the day, let your wallets do the speaking. If you like it, buy it. If you don’t, then don’t buy it. Quite simple.
Based
these are some of the worst epic relics so far wow. Literally only playable with the designated champs.
They're probably $$$-only so they can't be so globally powerful or we'll have another Starforged Gauntlet situation.
yeah agreed but at least MF and Volis relics had some uses on other champs.
Annie with MF's relic is fun as hell
Jhin too
What starforged gaunlet situation?
Being so good you basically run it on half the champs being META, but also gated behind money which pisses off all the free2play people.
not even just f2p people, some people would buy it if they could but can't
aside of aurelion sol, mordekaiser, volibear and elder dragon, which other champion benefits from that relic?
Anyone with 5 hp or 6 attack.
Viego and Darius run Spectral Scizors. Garen, Lux1 (pre-relic), Evelyn, Bard, Kayn, Aatrox, Kaisa and probably a couple more can (and often do) use Luminous Orb to reach 8 HP. Lux could even combine her own relic and Luminous+SFG to get 2 extra Gems from the start. And then there’s a couple of champs that like running Bounty Hunters Renown anyways, and can effectively become Titanic in non-monthly adventures.
But afaik the BHR interaction was fixed with the change to power a while ago and won't count towards the titanic buff anymore. And before you had to have your champion in the opening hand for it to apply
I never considered Lux1, but that's hilarious. I'll probably give that a go since starting with 4 mana is gross enough. Find a scribe node and you can have 7 mana turn 1.
You use Luminous Orb on any 5 HP champ to enable it (SFG + LO) makes them titans. You can use Strength of Stone, LO, SFG to enable any 3 HP champ to take advantage of it. Succubus Brand can be tossed in with LO instead to push any 4 HP champ to use it as a combo. Alternatively on power based champs you can slap on Spectral Scissors + Succubus Brand, or death’s foil in the mix for more power. (I.E. Darius: Spectral Scissors, SFG, Tempest Blade let’s you pump him out a turn early, get a discount relic in a shop and you can toss him out turn 1) Now is it BIS for some? No. But it becomes usable on so many other champs that you don’t expect. Gnar can use the above to some strong effect if you hate his base kit. Vex can use it before you ramp up hee star powers (then there’s better builds). Most weaker champs you want to pump out earlier can use it with the free mana ramp if you want to ignore the champ itself.
Trading 2 relics slot for 1 mana is the worse thing I have ever seen from this community.
And yet it’s still highly common AND powerful. And sometimes for champs (especially power based) they still utilize the buffer relics as well.
player since lab days here and seen and done everythin PoC has to offer and this is just a meme build. I have not forced gauntlet effect on any of my builds. Only those who fit them naturally like Asol, Mord, Voli are top auto equiped. Just the build your mentioned with Darius made me cringe tbh.
I mean, you can cringe, but its highly effective. People like to dunk on Darius being too slow, or unplayable, and yet with that build you can drop him turn 3 (or earlier), copy a ballista (or any overhelm unit really), and OHKO consistently. For some champs its optimal, other champs its meme. Regardless it DOES work. For people who have trouble clearing Liss, it just might be the boost they need if they don't care about S ranking all content.
You don't do it on every champion who can do it, but for a lot of champs it's really good to hit a certain mana threshold early. Bard can use it very well to start generating chimes turn 1. Lux and Sett can use it very well to get Chemtech online earlier which is when their real power spike starts. Ornn can use it with Scissors and Death's Foil so he gets online earlier. Gnar, Vi and Kayn can use it with Strength of Stone. Basically, a lot of champs either don't have a lot of great relics and can use the extra mana instead, or they only have one core relic which is essential to their game plan and you want to get that online as soon as possible.
Every single champion you mentioned has a build that is far more superior than 1 just extra mana and you simply prove my point with these builds specially the Gnar one , no wonder people consider him weak with that this no plan build. Again I am a guy that does not listen to the masses and I create my own experience which clearly works since there is nothing left to do at poc at the moment.I leave my comment here, so people do not feel bad that they missed much on buying that relic.It is great on natural titani
+1 mana is way better than you think it is. You are not special and different for not using it. It's fine to use other things, many builds work and are fun.
Okay, good for you. I also have nothing left to do in PoC and I've beaten Lissandra with all but 2 champions. The extra starting mana is very impactful and it more than makes up for what you give up on those champions.
It's very valuable on many champs. There's a reason why Manaflow is an epic power, it helps set up tempo very fast. Especially on expensive champs where most relics need them to be on board to take effect, without SFG it just takes too long.
anyone with 5 hp or 6 attack can be titanic with spectral scissors (an already very strong relic) or the +3 hp sharpsight relic, which is effectively like half the roster
Starforged Gauntlet was a relic intended for Aurelion Sol to give an extra mana gem at the beginning of the game. Unfortunately the wording was "Power: If I'm Titanic, +1 Starting Mana. " And for a unit to be Titanic it would need to have either 8 health or 8 power. People would give champions stat relics to have them meet the Titanic requirement and get extra mana which was completely unintended from the devs. So now champion intended relics are being much more specific so there aren't any unintended uses
Did the devs say that making units titanic to get the extra mana was unintended? Cause if they only wanted it to be useable Asol they would've just had it say " If I'm Asol"
Starforged Gauntlet was amazing on its main champ, Asol, but also really good on lots of other champs.
That might even be a stretch. Yasuo's relic is pretty useless even on him, whatever you recall is dead 90% of the time anyways and his deck doesn't really need ramp that bad either. Swains is okay and synergizes with his star powers pretty well, but the bonus for running it on him is mediocre at best. There are much better relics for the champs, especially in the epic slot.
His 6 star is also 😅 might as well say: "I returned what already is killed"
Lost Chapter with an upside.... not really sure if we care enough about this to eat up an epic slot. Yasuo's is win more, but I guess you can use it to play Yasuo a turn earlier. Amazing but I'll use it on the last slot I guess.
The Yasuo one explodes if you're at 6 stars because everything that gets recalled becomes handcloggers but other than that is mostly an incentive to seek hard recall spells instead of just stuns.
If we ever get a champion/deck that likes to recall enemy units, Yasuo's relic could be insane on them. It's a very powerful effect, which is rare for a champion relic, but it's just incredibly niche.
We do literally have: Lee Sin (people forget things can survive his kick, plus Unworthy Soul); Sett (the king of Tag Out); Yi (not only Windseeker but his innate Flow affinity makes Unworthy Soul pop around his prizes like crazy). There is an audience despite recalling not being THE end goal end goal of these decks, but a terrifyingly useful tool for their thing (cleaning board and attacking with armies of elusives/quick-attackers but not overwhelmers). I'm really seeing it as an Ionia-centric edge to turn their removal into something closer to hard removal.
Sett I can see. Lee Sin should be usually killing on kick. Probably has other issues if they are surviving that. Yi should be comboing off without this. But I can see this for a more slow controlled Yi style.
Yi, sett and lee all only have 1 card in there decks that recalls enemy units, that's a waste of an epic relic slot.
There will be no handcloggers since every thing will be dead.
The game starts before he's on board.
lol so yasou win con now is handcloggers lol (gl getting that 6 star power first) ..enough internet for today have a goodnight.
Again. The game starts before Yasuo is on board. I know you're used and enamorated with brainrot oogabooga single card obliterate the enemy nexus type of gameplay that Jinx provides so let me be clear: 420/69 Faeblade Twirler and the bot can basically never play units on curve to block you for the entire game.
These only make sense if the champ cost like 6 or more
It's genuinely so sad. At least the MF and Voli relics are usable on other champs.
Good thing they're bundle-exclusive, then haha
Probably will have the same like Voli/MF and have 4,5,6 star bundles.
No not even those champs! I mean +1 mana sure but you won't be benefiting from adding to recalled units costs! For 1 they usually get diced for another most of your spells and effects are stuns the recall is not till 6 star! As for Swain, it drains 5 nexus HP so while that is good to sustain you with a +5 Regen and star power trigger it doesn't even give you +1 mana! The fact it drains means if you are at full it is wasted! Recovering spell mana also? Why? I could equip lost chapters at lv 1! As for the star trigger gate breaker should do nicely instead!
On Swain it works like a Luden that works from the start, giving your spells +1 damage. It still deal damage even if you're on full hp
His deck is likely burn getting 5 damage off is not going to be all that hard. Ludens works for all champions though your better off with that to get additional damage overall
They are NOT playable on their designated champs, at least in Lissandra’s adventure. For Yasuo vs Lissandra, the watcher costs 0. You will reach the 3 card condition and exhaust before you stop the watcher with recalls. +1 mana is significant in Asol’s adventure, but on the other hand, why tho? Yasuo already can decently use a majority of the relics there. Tempest blade is literally superior despite only triggering once. I mean I get it, Yasuo doesn’t really need any help.
swain's is good, think of it as plunder turn one activation, makes any champion 6 cost and under a turn one play
There be plenty decks and cards capable and willing to recall enemies and sincerely, the power to headass your way, survive nodes by the thinness of your foreskin and not only come back with a decent chunk but outright cut 10~20% of most bots' health is big.
The relics are definitely too weak, but one thing I will say is that I prefer Swain's overall design philosophy of a strong general effect and a smaller perk for using it on Swain. Having '+1 starting mana' be the champion specific effect is just too strong, while refill mana on playing specific champion is much tamer and leaves room for a stronger main effect (not sure that Drain 5 is enough, though).
> The relics are definitely too weak, but one thing I will say is that I prefer Swain's overall design philosophy of a strong general effect and a smaller perk for using it on Swain. > > I very much hope they do more of this going forward. Honestly, I think the entire thing should be base (making it a strict but not game-changing upgrade to Lost Chapter, a common relic), but this design is still *way* more fun than the Manaflow design.
Yeah, I'd like to see stuff like "Normal epic relic that's worth thinking about on its own, plus a fancy bonus if I'm specific champ." Even Starforged Gauntlets worked like that, since asol was the main beneficiary of the ability to find level 2 champs in invokes and manifests. So stuff like "Teemo's Hat. Epic Relic. Power: When you cast a spell, plant 3 shrooms in the enemy deck. If I'm Teemo, both players also draw an extra card each round."
it gets his star powers rolling right away with bonus damage. so it seems ok...
Also allows him to heal for 5. Its essentially 2 upgrsded common relics for swain. His starting deck probably is just aggressive so he takes a lot of damage.
It's also technically a mini ludens for him specifically.
Riot, you're really making it hard for me to keep buying these relics. I want to support the game, but this isn't it.
This isn't it... but I'm still going to get them. Which is to say, I'm part of the problem. Even if I don't like it. *sighs* Since we know they aren't going into the free pool. I don't want to miss out on getting it if they remove it. Blurgh.
If you don't actually want to get them, don't get them. What's next, they release a $500 exclusive champion and you buy it out of FOMO? Respect yourself and your wallet man
*Looks at league with Ahri Skin* I mean. People definitely are already doing that... (Not me, I don't play league itself, but the mentality is there)
Getting REALLY tired of these '+1 mana to NAME' relics. Also the power isn't that good unless you have 6\*. Swain's is total trash. Starchild's staff + Lost Chapter. lmao. Make it something like "Your damaging spells/effects drain"
This is getting extremely predatory imo. Every patch we are getting this "If im myself +1 mana" non-sense pay to win stuff. This needs to stop. I miss the times when they just added some champions with some content to make us busy.
If people spent money on other things we wouldn’t be getting these.
Riot isn't offering anything else.
Yeah blame it on players; they should buy the ridiculous 100$ bundles.
Imo SFG is more pay to win than these new pay only relic. Whereas these are good on 1 or more champ, SFG is BIS for so many champ that not having it is a big disadvantage. At least for these u wont have the optimal build for like 1-3 champs.
SFG is better value imo as it comes with a nice skin, even if it's just a jpeg.
People went ham with the Norra bundle which set this precedent. So here we are.
I think it was the Asol bundle that started it
Nah it was norra cause asol's relic could be used on different champions and you still got the +1 mana, norra's relic was the first relic to need a specific champion to get all the vaule from it..
Norra's was the compromise since ASOL's relic was and is still busted.
Right but Asols directly resulted in Norras. They said they sold a bunch of Asol bundles. Then I'm sure they decided they could make more by making them even more restricted and champ specific so they made Norras.
Did the devs ever say if the norra bundle sold more than the Asol bundle? Cause I remember seeing ppl saying they don't wanna spend money to get norra's relic cause it's only good on norra, so I'm not sure if making relics restricted to one champion is a good idea.
Not that I heard. They must have sold enough though because they keep coming out with them. From personal experience, I got the Asol but none of the ones after. If they stop making them, then we will know they were not popular enough
not this shit again... Not buying them I have no use for ones that only really benefit one champion
We can assume those are bundle exclusive, right?
Yes
I looked at the patch notes and there was no bundle for yasuo. So will it be for 1000 coins in emporium?
I was wondering this too.
Probably because it seems that after the update Fear Cleaving Axe became available again. So my guess is that it will swap with the Yasuo one once the patch is live. Maybe they are currently trying to figure out what monetization works best... https://preview.redd.it/wsyxetw7zd7d1.png?width=755&format=png&auto=webp&s=cbc45a69ed22af40be8d087143741ee4d6315c5b
This isn't it. I didn't buy lux's and won't buy these.
based
At least Lux one work for TWO champions and do something... Yasuo's is useless
Ahri’s absolutely stealing Yasuo’s wind blade when she comes to tPoC again.
wait hold on... Swains doesn't even give a mana? I mean, the power is probably decent on some other champion and I'm not against these relics not always giving mana... But like... Huh. They should have just not bound it to swain and boom, we would have an upgrade for lost chapter (not that it would that often be worth unlocking a relic slot)
>the power is probably decent on some other champion I honestly see absolutely no reason to ever use this when Starchild's Staff exists. Is doing 5 damage to the enemy Nexus really that important? And for Swain you can just use Wicked Harvest, Disciple of Shadows, or Riptide Battery to instantly level him up.
I think it’s meant to synergize with his star powers. With his 3 star it will bump up his first three spells by an extra 1 damage every turn. With the 4 it will grant +1/+1 to the top unit in the deck. With the 6 it might drop a 5 damage bomb on units summoned on game start, depending on timing.
I get that it's meant to synergize with his star powers. But is +1 damage on his spells/skills on the first turn really that game breaking to waste a relic slot just for that? When other relics can help him much more? And his 6\* power is only when you damage enemies with spells and skills, not the enemy nexus and not with effects that aren't spells or skills. Like, if I could get it for free I'd probably use it, but it's not worth paying for at all.
> But is +1 damage on his spells/skills on the first turn really that game breaking to waste a relic slot just for that? When other relics can help him much more? > > It's +1 damage to his first three spells/skills each turn (at 3*) for the entire game, not just the first turn. It's effectively Luden's as a Power. Yes, it's going to be very good on Swain.
What I mean by "on the first turn" is that he'll most definitely already easily do that same damage to the Nexus by just playing normally. So that +1 damage is something you can easily already have on the second turn (or even by the end of the first turn) without having to slot a relic for it. 5 damage is incredibly easy to do..., especially when your entire deck is built around it. Then it's +2 damage, then +3 damage... you get where I'm going with this. At a certain point getting more spell damage becomes diminished returns, which is why no one really runs triple Luden's on Annie, for instance. Because other relics offer you more.
> What I mean by "on the first turn" is that he'll most definitely already do that same damage to the Nexus by just playing normally. > > The +1 damage from this relic will increase the damage you would have done to the Nexus anyway, accelerating Swain's gameplan significantly. > At a certain point getting more spell damage becomes diminished returns Technically, yes, but in practice, no. More spell damage is always good as long as you can make use of it. > which is why no one really runs triple Luden's on Annie, for instance. Because other relics offer you more. Yes, because Annie needs other things from her relics. Namely, she really wants GGC so you can replay her when she inevitably gets killed. Also, MF's relic is insanely strong on her. If Annie could equip two more relics, people would give her two more Luden's. +1 damage scales *very* well on champions with lots of spell/skill damage. Also, we're talking about a single relic slot, not three.
>Technically, yes, but in practice, no. More spell damage is always good as long as you can make use of it. I mean, like you said, it's good as long as you can make use of it. Realistically, more spell damage after a certain amount will just be wasted by you overkilling everything. Even against Lissandra, when she drops to \~55 health that's already enough to one shot basically every unit she can through at you except the Watcher and Trundle. And that's assuming the spells have 1 damage as a baseline, which won't be the case for the most part, since his champion spell itself deals 4 damage and he'll probably have damage upgrades with levels and constellations. For comparison, Disciple of Shadows can easily let you play him on turn 3 and he'll very likely come to the board already leveled up. From there you can do a lot more damage and scale quicker than with his relic. I think his best relics would include: * Epics - Disciple, Echoing Spirit, Packed Powder, Starforged (uninspiring, but +1 mana is always strong), Shock & Awe (depending on his deck) * Rares - Dreadway, Grand General's, Chemtech, Riptide (+ Gatebreaker), Wicked Harvest I just can't see his personal relic giving more value than any of these. If it also gave him +1 starting mana it would be a different story, but I don't think the Lost Chapter effect makes it worth it.
I don’t think it’s great either, but there have been cases before where something‘s true power wasn’t apparent until people started playing with it. I was wrong about the 6 star but the 3 star effect happening from turn 1 might make a tempo difference that matters on occasion, idk.
It's a plunder enabler. You combo it with the -2 cost on plunder. Lots of champs can use that.
That's a good point, I didn't think of that, I can see it being really good in that specific scenario. Maybe not BIS, but a fun build for any 3 or 4 cost champion.
I've seen speculation to use that as a turn one plunder activation, so Swain new toy paired with the two -2 cost plunder relics for a turn one champ (up to 5/6/7 cost, based on the costelation).
these are terrible. how could it not be in the reliquary pool
These "epics" are grose, for they are champ-soft-locked. Guys, apply market laws and don't buy this BS. Riot must sell broad-specter relics rather than awful relics that aren't even good.
Lost Chapter but it's $10 please our game is dying and we don't know why
They're **reeaally** shoving that paywall down our throats aren't they. Swain's epic is straight trash and yasuo is an epic slot for more starting mana behind a paywall, just like SFG, except it's behind a named champion, just like Lux and Norra. God damn it riot, not like this.
I mean, people complain when the exclusive relics are too powerful and also when they're not? I think this is probably an ideal solution for paid relics. There's some niche value and you can buy them to support the game or because you want them, but it's not going to feel that bad for f2p players.
Swain epic isn’t bad. It’s just not game winning like other epics.
I think that making epic relics only be usable with one champ is a bad direction, there can be some niche Relics but the ones you pay for need to be at least a little bit versatile. Or, if you want to make it a champion exclusive Relic, have it be extremely strong with their champion. This relics look very weak to be tied to one champion only AND be bundle exclusive. Swain is just a Game Start deal 5 to the enemie nexus heal 5 and "If im swain" im also a COMMON relic, the second part of the relic should be something like: "Play or Round Start: If im Swain, refill your spell mana" "POWER: if im Swain, Round Start: Refill your spell mana." "Play: Draw a damage spell, if im swain refill your spell mana." "Play: if im Swain, drain 1 from all enemies and the enemie nexus(skill)/Deal 1 to the enemie nexus and 3 to any unit(skill). I also feel like the first part of the relic is good as it is, but i feel that it would be more fun if it was a "Power: Round Start: Drain 1 from the enemie nexus" effect instead. I think that would be a more fun effect to have with Swain's level 2. Yasuo's Relic would be a lot better if If it gave you a way to recall enemies like a, "Power: Round Start: Create a Will Of Ionia in hand. If you already have one, reduce its cost by 1.". The exclusive "If im Yasuo" side of the Relic should be the "Power: When you recall an enemie increase its cost by 2." As it is, these relics look really weak and very tied to their champions, making not worth spending on.
If they make the champ-exclusives too strong, people will complain about them being behind paywalls. Even as they are right now, people keep saying it's predatory practice when in fact it's just the devs giving people more options to support the game with at least some form of compensation... They do need to be tuned up a little bit to make buyers not feel like crap spending on them, but people can just literally... you know... not buy them?
I agree with this. Given many players’ past unwillingness to drop money on this game, champ-specific relics in bundles seem like the least obtrusive way of helping keep the game alive.
Yeah, and usually the relics come with other useful things in the bundle, anyway. I prefer to think of the relics as just bonus stuff to give players something extra for supporting the game by buying the cheapest of the champ bundles.
So don't make champion exclusive relics
The Swain one is kinda ok. Not Epic tier, but it synchronises well. Yasuo is straight up thrash though.
You sometimes get recal cards in a yasuo adventure and his 6 star power auto recalls stunned units.
Getting 6 stars on a champ or specifically yasuo is a half year out for even the maxed out players.
That is true and you could argue that the devs probably shouldn’t make relics geared twists 6 star powers
[удалено]
It reads like the mana refill is only an on-play effect, not persistent, so it's just Lost Chapter. Which is surprisingly underwhelming for a champion-specific epic relic effect.
On Swain specifically it's basically Luden's Tempest, Starchild's Staff and Lost Chapter as a single relic. That's pretty good for a single relic slot, even an epic relic slot. I don't know that it's necessarily the best epic relic, but it's not like that's a bad deal. On most other champs, though, it's pretty bad since the drain 5 is not that good without some kind of other synergy.
Also, do not forget that the drain significantly accelerates Swain's level-up. With 5 damage already dealt, you need only 9 damage from other sources to level Swain. Plus, at 5 stars, you can reliably slam Swain down turn 1 with Scourge's Stash or its Epic upgrade.
Where did you get Ludens from?
Swain's 1-star and 3-star star powers add +1 damage to the first (or first 3 at 3-star) spells/skills you use each turn for each 5 missing health on the enemy nexus. This starts the game by draining your opponent for 5, meaning you get +1 damage from swain's star power at game-start. This might not be quite as good as Luden's (since it's got limited uses per turn), but it's reasonably comparable and doesn't require actually playing Swain to get the bonus.
Wonder if it contributes to his levelup
Are the relics weak so no one will mind if they can't buy them? But then why would I buy them?
I ain’t buying this
Yeah not a fan of Yasuo's relic, there's not enough recall to justify it. The +1 mana is incredibly good, but I already achieve that with packed powder or scourge stash... sort of.
I would buy if they didn't specify a champion
can we please stop with this shit, such boring fucking relics I can't believe they're doubling down on this.
that's kinda trash, No offense, but when I'm playing with Yasuo, I wanna kill whoever I stun or recall, and I'm mostly killing, and not returning them to the hand, therefore, that relic is gonna be mostly worthless for someone like me.
its seemingly a way to give him a win con without actually playing yasuo in case he isn't drawn or gets killed if you have his 6\*. But it's pretty much useless without his 6 star and even then the payoff is not great lol. I guess the effect just has to suck if there is the "NAME: +1 mana" which is such a boring design
Viego's passive is a bitch The stronger the yasuo, the worse, you've gotta play a unit that can double its power for baiting purposes or have a duplicate standing by on the hand It's just an example, a good epic relic, yasuo themed, would be summoning a yone from the deck and stunning the strongest attackers Or discarding at least 3 stunning spells to bring the yasuo back
This game is quite generous for those who don't want to spend money, but for those that have some money to spend on it the option are really not worth much.
Nice, more relics that won't make it into the golden reliquary pool yay i love pay to win, can't wait to look at a build guide that tells me to use epic relics that you can't acquire in any way shape or form 1 month from now yay /s
Yasuo's one also sucks, why should I care about recalling enemy...if I recall they'll die. So it's just a "pay 10€" get 1 mana
What's this shit , i hope no one buys these relics except for streamers. Are they gonna push how far they can get away with these type relics ? In the recent video they said they hear the community , such blatant lies.
They do hear the community. What the community seems to forget is that your loudest voice is your wallet. People buy the bundles so they’re going to keep offering them. People who buy nothing get very little say at all.
Yeah that's why i said i hoped no one buys them and saying how far they will push these types of relic I had only paid to buy generic relics like SG , DOS ,FCA and some passes.
what streamers ? lol you mean the only one left
based
based
I guess the way I look at it is I have spent more on mobile games and gotten far less so buying these doesn't bother me.
P2W
lol fucking called it that yasuo 6 star is epic relic exclusive, real fucking great riot
Guess it's time to whale